Ethnic groups with highest PIE/IE admixture?

[LoLeL]

Or ethnic groups with genetic admixture similar/close to Proto-Indo-Europeans?

[BalkanTurk]

Or ethnic groups with genetic admixture similar/close to Proto-Indo-Europeans?Tajiks afaik

[LoLeL]

Tajiks afaik

They live in a mixed as hell region (Central Asia) so I don't think they resemble PIEs, unless they are an isolated ethnicity with super-duper inbreeding skills. Any source for your claim?

[Kouros]

Norwegians, Lithuanians, and Estonians?

https://f.hypotheses.org/wp-content/blogs.dir/727/files/2015/06/Haak-et-al-2015-Figure-3-Admixture-Proportions-in-Modern-DNA-With-Linguistic-and-Historical-Origins-Added.png

[LoLeL]

Norwegians, Lithuanians, and Estonians?

Source? And how Finnic/Uralic Estonians are related to PIEs? Or why Norwegians are special in your thought?

[Kouros]

Source? And how Finnic/Uralic Estonians are related to PIEs? Or why Norwegians are special in your thought?

The source is in my post

[LoLeL]

The source is in my post

Looks good but it's limited to European ethnic groups. Eurasia matters.

[JohnSmith]

What about Iranians,Afghans and South Asians?

[LoLeL]

What about Iranians,Afghans and South Asians?

My concern is about PIEs or early IEs (e.g. proto-Germanics). Your mentioned groups were already mixed with non-IEs when they migrated to their current homelands.

[Kouros]

Looks good but it's limited to European ethnic groups. Eurasia matters.

Significant Steppe admixture is negligible outside of Europe with the exception of rare cases like Pashtuns. I don't think they carry nearly as much as Norwegians or Russians though. I still think that proto-Nordics were Nordo-Iranic anthropologically.

[LoLeL]

Significant Steppe admixture is negligible outside of Europe with the exception of rare cases like Pashtuns. I don't think they carry nearly as much as Norwegians or Russians though. I still think that proto-Nordics were Nordo-Iranic anthropologically.

What about these ethnicities?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pamiris
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yaghnobi_people


Y-DNA haplogroup R1 (R-M173), is found at a relatively high level of 48% among Yaghnobi males. However, detailed breakdowns of this result into subclades are unavailable. That means it is unclear if these examples of R1 are subclades common in Central Asia, Eastern Europe and South Asia, and associated with the Copper Age Kurgan Culture of the Eurasian Steppe and the spread of Iranian-speaking peoples, who entered the area circa 3000 BCE.[15] While R1a1a, also known as R-M17, represents 16% of the total (and these individuals are also known to be negative for a rare subclade defined by M87), it is not clear whether the remaining 32% of Yaghnobi males belong to R1a(xR1a1a), which has been found in populations native to areas between South Asia and Western Europe, R1* (R-M173*), or R1b (R-M343).

[Rethel]

Admixture of what?
Of Indoeuropeans or of supposedly autosomal racial
characteristics of the oldest separated form of IE tribe?

[Kouros]

What about these ethnicities?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pamiris
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yaghnobi_people

"with the exception of rare cases" - this is one of those cases.

[Jana]

Significant Steppe admixture is negligible outside of Europe with the exception of rare cases like Pashtuns. I don't think they carry nearly as much as Norwegians or Russians though. I still think that proto-Nordics were Nordo-Iranic anthropologically.

North Caucasians carry huge steppe admixture but they aren't IE speaking except Ossetians/Armenians

[Rethel]

North Caucasians carry huge steppe admixture but they aren't IE speaking except Ossetians/Armenians

Steppe au is not original IE pure au, as
it had allready admix of cuacasian au.

[Jana]

Steppe au is not original IE pure au, as
it had allready admix of cuacasian au.

Do you think EHG is original IE admix ?

[Rethel]

Do you think EHG is original IE admix ?

Yes, as even Malta-boy clearly shows.

But Token suggested, that it was based on some castizo guy (similarly as ANE
so Idk what sense it has) then in such case original would be without this admix.

[JohnSmith]

My concern is about PIEs or early IEs (e.g. proto-Germanics). Your mentioned groups were already mixed with non-IEs when they migrated to their current homelands.

Many people are mixed when you go back so far.

[Mingle]

What about these ethnicities?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pamiris
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yaghnobi_people

IIRC they have the highest PIE admixture followed by Pashtuns.

[LoLeL]

North Caucasians carry huge steppe admixture but they aren't IE speaking except Ossetians/Armenians

We talk about IE-speaking ethnic groups so the other groups are irrelevant here except the non-IEs who are close to PIEs. Do those North Caucasians fit in the "non-IEs who are close to PIEs" category?

[Norka]

Who gives a shit? Why not be interested in WHG or Neolithic farmer mixture. This thread has been made so many times here it's starting to get boring. And of course autismo retard rethel is here as well.

[LoLeL]

IIRC they have the highest PIE admixture followed by Pashtuns.

PIE admixture or later wave like Proto-Indo-Iranian admixture?

[CrazyCatLady]

Significant Steppe admixture is negligible outside of Europe with the exception of rare cases like Pashtuns. I don't think they carry nearly as much as Norwegians or Russians though. I still think that proto-Nordics were Nordo-Iranic anthropologically.

Not true. Many Southern European groups have less Steppe admixture than Tajiks, Afghans (Pashtuns), North Indians (upper caste), Kalash, Burusho etc. They are not ''rare cases''; these populations are very substantial.

[LoLeL]

Who gives a shit? Why not be interested in WHG or Neolithic farmer mixture. This thread has been made so many times here it's starting to get boring. And of course autismo retard rethel is here as well.

I didn't see those threads. Where are they? Because if they have posts with sources, then this thread is already ended for me. And let the Rethel plays his game. :patpat:

[LoLeL]

Not true. Many Southern European groups have less Steppe admixture than Tajiks, Afghans (Pashtuns), North Indians (upper caste), Kalash, Burusho etc. They are not ''rare cases''; these populations are very substantial.

And your source?

[Mingle]

PIE admixture or later wave like Proto-Indo-Iranian admixture?

Both I think. I don't think Proto-Indo-Iranians were significantly different than PIEs.

[Token]

Both I think. I don't think Proto-Indo-Iranians were significantly different than PIEs.
If we assume the mainstream view of Sintashta as Proto-Indo-Iranian, they were already quite mixed with European Neolithic farmers, but still overwhelmingly (~75%) PIE.

[Mingle]

If we assume the mainstream view of Sintashta as Proto-Indo-Iranian, they were already quite mixed with European Neolithic farmers, but still overwhelmingly (~75%) PIE.

I thought the mainstream view was that Andronovo was the Proto-Indo-Iranian urheimat?

[Rethel]

We talk about IE-speaking ethnic groups so the other groups are irrelevant here except the non-IEs who are close to PIEs. Do those North Caucasians fit in the "non-IEs who are close to PIEs" category?

You are confusing your question even more now.

Do you want to know, which population has the highst amount
of IEness generaly, or only those speaking IE language? And what
admix do you have in mind? Of Indoeuropeans or of their original
racial showed by autosomal characteristics? Can you finaly decide?

[Token]

I thought the mainstream view was that Andronovo was the Proto-Indo-Iranian urheimat?

Andronovo is merely a temporal and geographic extension of Sintashta, and consequently of Corded Ware, based on their huge amount of shared genetic drift. Several archeologists even disagree with the identification of Andronovo as Indo-Iranian based on the lack of timber graves and little evidence of its penetration in BMAC. Anyway, some borrowing evidences suggests that they already spoke a later stage of the branch, perphaps already in the Indo-Aryan stage according to Vladimir Napolskikh, or possibly even a completely different sub-branch of the Indo-Iranian family. In my opinion, there is little doubt that Sintashta was the Proto-Indo-Iranian homeland based on both genetics, archeological and linguistic evidences.

[Jana]

Yes, as even Malta-boy clearly shows.

But Token suggested, that it was based on some castizo guy (similarly as ANE
so Idk what sense it has) then in such case original would be without this admix.

But, EHG is just a mix of WHG + some amerindian :)

[Rethel]

But, EHG is just a mix of WHG + some amerindian :)

In such case you stripped us from au at all.

Others say, that WHG is EHG plus something else, so, whatever.

As you see, au can be interpreted in different ways, according
to somebodies agenda, as almost every component participates
in reality in others, as all are from the same original people, but
have some DNA lost in different propotions. As always, the same
in this case - au is sensless.

BUT according to analyses of Genetiker, this is not true what you
said, as he distinguishes those two components... So, whatever
he shows as IE au, this is different than AmInd.

[Leto]

I think Eastern Europeans like myself. However, the PIEs were not Aryans, Aryan means Iranian. PIE = Yamnaya.

[Rethel]

the PIEs were not Aryans, Aryan means Iranian.

Wow, you changed your mind.


PIE = Yamnaya.

Nope.

[Leto]

Wow, you changed your mind.

I didn't. I've always said that only the Proto-Indo-Iranians could be rightfully called Aryan. Calling North Europeans Aryan is incorrect.

Nope.
Yes, those steppe herders were Indo-European. Read "The horse, the wheel and the language" by David Anthony.

[Kouros]

Who gives a shit? Why not be interested in WHG or Neolithic farmer mixture. This thread has been made so many times here it's starting to get boring. And of course autismo retard rethel is here as well.

Who does carry the highest WHG?

[Kouros]

I didn't. I've always said that only the Proto-Indo-Iranians could be rightfully called Aryan. Calling North Europeans Aryan is incorrect.

Yes, those steppe herders were Indo-European. Read "The horse, the wheel and the language" by David Anthony.

Would you recommend that book? I'm looking for a good book to read on the indo-Europeans and bronze age cultures.

[Leto]

Would you recommend that book? I'm looking for a good book to read on the indo-Europeans and bronze age cultures.
Yeah, it's good enough.

[MercifulServant]

Russians

[MercifulServant]

I think Eastern Europeans like myself. However, the PIEs were not Aryans, Aryan means Iranian. PIE = Yamnaya.

Aryan means indo european Russians, Lithuanians and Belorussians are the most aryan

[LoLeL]

I think Eastern Europeans like myself. However, the PIEs were not Aryans, Aryan means Iranian. PIE = Yamnaya.

And who talked about "Aryan"? Do you see any super secret Aryan thing in my thread title or OP?

[Leto]

And who talked about "Aryan"? Do you see any super secret Aryan thing in my thread title or OP?
Lol, no, I don't. Just mentioned that for all to remember.

[LoLeL]

Lol, no, I don't. Just mentioned that for all to remember.

Classic "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure" or "a stitch in time saves nine" :lol00001:

[TheForeigner]

PIEs were largely R1A, right? So how about Slavs then?

[LoLeL]

PIEs were largely R1A, right? So how about Slavs then?

R1 in general. Both R1a and R1b.


Three genetic studies in 2015 gave support to the Kurgan theory of Marija Gimbutas regarding the Indo-European Urheimat. According to those studies, haplogroups R1b and R1a, now the most common in Europe (with R1a also being common in South Asia), would have expanded from the Pontic-Caspian steppes, along with the Indo-European languages. They also detected an autosomal component present in modern Europeans which was not present in Neolithic Europeans, which would have been introduced with paternal lineages R1b and R1a, as well as Indo-European Languages in Bronze Age.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamna_culture

[TheForeigner]

Off topic maybe, but how did PIE look like? Did they resemble some modern Europeans?

[LoLeL]

Off topic maybe, but how did PIE look like? Did they resemble some modern Europeans?

Amerindians but lighter version
https://i.pinimg.com/564x/15/a2/8a/15a28a14538ca3bb862d774e06e42c87.jpg

Study about haplogroup Q and how it's related to R.

[TheForeigner]

No way. They were a Caucasoid people, not Amerindian-like.

[LoLeL]

No way. They were a Caucasoid people, not Amerindian-like.

Nope: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mal%27ta–Buret%27_culture


The term "Ancient North Eurasian" (ANE) has been given in genetic literature to an ancestral component that represents descent from the people similar to the Mal'ta–Buret' culture or a population closely related to them.[3] The genetic component ANE descends from Ancient South Eurasian.[9][note 1]

A people similar to MA-1 were important genetic contributors to Native Americans, Europeans, Central and South Asians, and minor contribution to East Eurasians. [10] Lazaridis et al. (2016) notes "a cline of ANE ancestry across the east-west extent of Eurasia."[11] According to a 2016 study, it was found that the global maximum of ANE ancestry occurs in modern-day Kets, Mansi, Native Americans, Nganasans and Yukaghirs.[3] Additionally it has been reported in ancient Bronze-age-steppe Yamnaya and Afanasevo cultures.[2] Between 14 and 38 percent of Native American ancestry may originate from gene flow from the Mal'ta Buret people, while the other geneflow in Native Americans appears to have an Eastern Eurasian origin. [1] Sequencing of another south-central Siberian (Afontova Gora-2) dating to approximately 17,000 years ago, revealed similar autosomal genetic signatures as Mal'ta boy-1, suggesting that the region was continuously occupied by humans throughout the Last Glacial Maximum. [1]

Genomic studies also indicate that ANE was introduced to Europe by way of the Yamna culture, long after the Paleolithic.[2][3] The ANE genetic component is visible in tests of the Yamnaya people, and seems to make up 50% of their ancestry indirectly.[2][3] It is also reported in modern-day Europeans (5%–18% ANE admixture), but not of Europeans predating the Bronze Age.


The skeletal remains of MA-1 have been described as phenotypically East Asian ("Mongoloid"). Alexeev (1998, p. 323) in his later publication stated that this area was "inhabited by a population of Mongoloid appearance".[6] Genomic studies by Raghavan et al. (2014) and Fu et al. (2016) found Mal'ta Buret had brown eyes, dark hair and dark skin.[1][7]

[TheForeigner]

Amerindians are part ANE, but they are predominantly East Eurasian.

[LoLeL]

Amerindians are part ANE, but they are predominantly East Eurasian.

They are one of the groups with highest ANE. So you can't deny their looks have nothing to do with PIEs. And East Eurasia:


East Eurasian = anything from Mongoloid + Ancestral_South_Indian or + Negrito/Onge-Andamanese/Australoid-Papuan component

West Eurasian = Anything from Caucasus/CaucasusHunterGatherer ..to European component .. or Middle Eastern /Caucasian/Europid

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?222881-What-are-East-and-West-Eurasian-Admixtures&p=4686821&viewfull=1#post4686821

[Rethel]

Amerindians are part ANE, but they are predominantly East Eurasian.

ANE is partialy AmInd, not otherwise.

[Rethel]

I didn't. I've always said that only the Proto-Indo-Iranians could be rightfully called Aryan. Calling North Europeans Aryan is incorrect.

Sure... nie choczietsja iskat' mnie, no you did call an Aryan even yourself.


Yes, those steppe herders were Indo-European. Read "The horse, the wheel and the language" by David Anthony.

Yes, they were Indo-European, they were even Indoeuropeans, but not PIE as you said previously.

[Pahli]

Someone who is 2/3 Lithuanian and 1/3 Georgian

[LoLeL]

Someone who is 2/3 Lithuanian and 1/3 Georgian

Post their results or closet results to such mix.

[Pahli]

Post their results or closet results to such mix.

I don't have that lmao

[LoLeL]

I don't have that lmao

Then post something else. Positive contribution I mean.

[Norka]

Who does carry the highest WHG?

North/North East Euros

[Leto]

Post their results or closet results to such mix.
I have some partial Georgians and Armenians. Like 3/4 Russian, 1/4 other.

[Leto]

no you did call an Aryan even yourself.
That must've been a joke.

[Leto]

Yes, they were Indo-European, they were even Indoeuropeans, but not PIE as you said previously.
They are the earliest culture commonly identified as Proto-IE.

[Kouros]

Someone who is 2/3 Lithuanian and 1/3 Georgian

Why/How? Eupedia says 3/4 Irish highlander + 1/4 Balochi apparently but I don't know why since that would mean that the end result has less Yamna then someone who is just full Irish.

[Kouros]

North/North East Euros

Thanks. Do you have a link to the paper by chance?

[Norka]

Thanks. Do you have a link to the paper by chance?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4170574/

[Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin]

Europeans

[Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin]

They are one of the groups with highest ANE. So you can't deny their looks have nothing to do with PIEs. And East Eurasia:



https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?222881-What-are-East-and-West-Eurasian-Admixtures&p=4686821&viewfull=1#post4686821It has nothing to do with Indo Europeans it has to do with ancestral north Eurasians and east Eurasians.

[Kouros]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4170574/

Thanks b

[LoLeL]

It has nothing to do with Indo Europeans it has to do with ancestral north Eurasians and east Eurasians.

LOL NO

Amigo, see these posts:
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?234587-Proto-Indo-Europeans-genetic-makeup&p=4945711&viewfull=1#post4945711
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?234587-Proto-Indo-Europeans-genetic-makeup&p=4945742&viewfull=1#post4945742

[Rethel]

They are the earliest culture commonly identified as Proto-IE.

Nope.

[Hadouken]

Ukrainians ?

[Rethel]

The author still didn;t define what he want to know, so hard to say.

[LoLeL]

The author still didn;t define what he want to know, so hard to say.

Me? The OP is clear enough. I'm waiting.

[Rethel]

Me? The OP is clear enough. I'm waiting.

No is not. I am waiting too :p

[Kouros]

Someone who is 2/3 Lithuanian and 1/3 Georgian


Why/How? Eupedia says 3/4 Irish highlander + 1/4 Balochi apparently but I don't know why since that would mean that the end result has less Yamna then someone who is just full Irish.

Plz reply

[MercifulServant]

Ruski

[Pahli]

Plz reply

Idk, you cannot accurately put it up by modern ethnicities since no modern ethnicity resembles Yamnaya, even mixing Caucasian and Baltic ethnicities it will not resemble Yamnaya fully, but close. You could also model it as 3/4 Finnish + 1/4 Georgian, depending on what sample we are talking about, since not all Yamnaya samples had the exact same amount of CHG admix.

[Kouros]

Idk, you cannot accurately put it up by modern ethnicities since no modern ethnicity resembles Yamnaya, even mixing Caucasian and Baltic ethnicities it will not resemble Yamnaya fully, but close. You could also model it as 3/4 Finnish + 1/4 Georgian, depending on what sample we are talking about, since not all Yamnaya samples had the exact same amount of CHG admix.

That's interesting, thanks.