Haplogroup G in Europe: Celtic or Sarmatian?

[LoLeL]

Is it related to Celtic tribes or Sarmatian groups like Alans? Or none of them?

[Mens-Sarda]

I think none of them, it should be really more ancient. About 15% of Sardinian population carries this haplogroup, and no Celtic tribes or Sarmatian groups like Alans ever set foot in Sardinia. It's very common in Caucasus, north Ossetia 60%, Georgia 30%, and in general in the Anatolian area. It's plausible that this haplogroup reached Sardinia during the epoch of the Sea Peoples (about 1500 b.C.).

[Bosniensis]

None of them...

It's is Native to Balkans and Italy

It's very old Haplogroup :P

It was found in Vinča

[Linebacker]

Haplogroup G is not an European haplogroup

[LoLeL]

I think none of them, it should be really more ancient. About 15% of Sardinian population carries this haplogroup, and no Celtic tribes or Sarmatian groups like Alans ever set foot in Sardinia. It's very common in Caucasus, north Ossetia 60%, Georgia 30%, and in general in the Anatolian area. It's plausible that this haplogroup reached Sardinia during the epoch of the Sea Peoples (about 1500 b.C.).

Seems it brought by Neolithic farmers to Europe.

[LoLeL]

None of them...

It's is Native to Balkans and Italy

It's very old Haplogroup :P

It was found in Vinča

You don't want to be a Celt or Sarmatian, Mr. Roman 2018? :laugh:

[Jana]

It is neolithic marker from Anatolia, but the branch that two Serbs have on this site is central European hg that took part in Celtic expansion.

[LoLeL]

It is neolithic marker from Anatolia, but the branch that two Serbs have on this site is central European hg that took part in Celtic expansion.

So do you think G-Celts were assimilated natives?

[Jana]

So do you think G-Celts were assimilated natives?

Probably, it is well spread around alpine belt :)

[LoLeL]

Probably, it is well spread around alpine belt :)

And Alans/Sarmatians?


In a study conducted in 2014 by V.V. Ilyinskyon on bone fragments from 10 Alanic burials on the Don River, DNA could be abstracted from a total of 7. 4 of them turned out as belonging to yDNA Haplogroup G2 and 6 of them had mtDNA I. The fact that many of the samples share the same y- and mtDNA raises the possibility that the tested individuals belonged to the same tribe or even were close relatives. Nevertheless, this is a strong argument for direct Alan ancestry of Ossetians and against the hypothesis that Ossetians are alanized Caucasic Speakers, since the major Haplogroup among Ossetians is G2 either.[56]

In 2015 the Institute of Archaeology in Moscow conducted researches on various Sarmato-Alan and Saltovo-Mayaki culture Kurgan burials. In this analyses, the two Alan samples from 4th to 6th century AD turned out with yDNAs G2a-P15 and R1a-z94, while from the three Sarmatian samples from 2nd to 3rd century AD two turned out both with yDNA J1-M267 and one with R1a.[57] And the three Saltovo-Mayaki samples from 8th to 9th century AD turned out with yDNAs G, J2a-M410 and R1a-z94 respectively[58]
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alans

[MercifulServant]

It was brought by Neolithic farmers

[Bosniensis]

You don't want to be a Celt or Sarmatian, Mr. Roman 2018? :laugh:

Celts ARE Romans, it's just they are extinct except few in Italy, Balkans and Anatolia.

[MercifulServant]

Haplogroup G is not an European haplogroup

R isn't European either then there are many non European people with R

[LoLeL]

R isn't European either then there are many non European people with R

Even IJ is not European.

[LoLeL]

Celts ARE Romans, it's just they are extinct except few in Italy, Balkans and Anatolia.

:bleedingeyes:

Irish, Scots, and Welsh must sue you.

[MercifulServant]

Even IJ is not European.

according to these peoples logic no haplogroups are European except I

[Jana]

Even IJ is not European.

I is European.

[LoLeL]

I is European.

I is as much European as J.

[Grace O'Malley]

Celts ARE Romans, it's just they are extinct except few in Italy, Balkans and Anatolia.

Celts were foreign to the Romans. The Romans fought against them. There are still people with Celtic blood but the only places where Celtic languages are still spoken are Ireland, Wales, Scotland and Brittany.

This is a good article about the Celts and the Romans.

http://www.historynet.com/empire-vs-tribe-the-roman-empire-and-the-celts.htm

Anyway Celts appear to be majority R1b.

[Jana]

I is as much European as J.

No, absolutely not. I mutated in Europe, J in middle east.

[MercifulServant]

It is neolithic marker from Anatolia, but the branch that two Serbs have on this site is central European hg that took part in Celtic expansion.

Yes and our father clade was present in Vinca

[Freeroostah]

Probably Sarmatians since Alans migrated all over Western Europe. But again it could be ancient

[Mens-Sarda]

And Alans/Sarmatians?


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alans)

They in origin lived near Caucasus or along the northern shores of the Black Sea

[jingorex]

I think none of them, it should be really more ancient. About 15% of Sardinian population carries this haplogroup, and no Celtic tribes or Sarmatian groups like Alans ever set foot in Sardinia. It's very common in Caucasus, north Ossetia 60%, Georgia 30%, and in general in the Anatolian area. It's plausible that this haplogroup reached Sardinia during the epoch of the Sea Peoples (about 1500 b.C.).

I read some of the earliest migrations out of the steppe occurred as early as 4000 BC with the indo-european migrations of yamna cultures; which were a mix of european hunter gatherers and caucus hunter gatherers.

[Sacrificed Ram]

Will vary with the clade.

[jingorex]

Here are some famous G gangsters. They claim Otzi is actually the oldest european genome ever tested.



Ötzi the Iceman, Europe's oldest natural human mummy, dating from 5,300 years ago, had his full genome sequenced (the oldest European genome ever tested) and was found to belong to haplogroup G2a-L91 (G2a2a2, formerly known as G2a4).

Bure kinship from Sweden
The male lineage of the medieval Bure kinship from Sweden has been identified as Y-DNA haplogroup G2a, based on several BigY tests carried out in 2014 on people living today. Descendants of two of the sons of Old Olof (who was born about 1380) were identified as G-Y12970*, and descendants of his alleged brother Fale as G-Y16788. The test result supports genealogical information recorded in about 1610 by Johannes Bureus. The DNA results also disproved a branch that was later added to the family book.[38]

On 12 September 2012, archeologists from the University of Leicester announced that they had discovered what they believed were the remains of King Richard III of England (1452-1485) within the former Greyfriars Friary Church in the city of Leicester (see Exhumation of Richard III). The skeleton's DNA matched exactly the mitochondiral haplogroup (J1c2c) of modern matrilineal descendants of Anne of York, Richard's elder sister, confirming the identity of the medieval king. Further tests published in December 2014 revealed that his Y-chromosomal haplogroup was G2 (not tested for downstream mutations, but statistically very likely to be G2a3 as a northern European). This however did not match the Y-DNA of three modern relatives (who were all R1b-U152 xL2) descended from Edward III, Richard III's great-great-grand-father. Richard descends from the House of York, while the modern relatives descend from the House of Lancaster via John of Gaunt. Therefore it cannot be determined at present when the non-paternity event occured in the Plantagenet lineage, and whether most of the Plantagenets monarchs belonged to haplogroup G2 or R1b-U152. Both haplogroups are considerably more common in France than in Britain, however, which is consistent with the French roots of the House of Plantagenets.


Joseph Stalin, who was of Georgian origin, belonged to haplogroup G2a1a. This was determined by testing his grandson, Alexander Burdonsky (his son Vasily's son).

Larry Bird (photo by Steve Lipofsky - CC BY-SA 3.0)
Larry Bird (b. 1956), an American professional basketball executive, former coach and former player for the Boston Celtics, is thought to belong to haplogroup G-Z6748 (downstream of Z1816 and Y8903) based on the testing of several relatives descending from Thomas Bird at the Haplogroup G-L497 Y-DNA Project. Larry Bird is the only person in NBA history to be named Most Valuable Player, Coach of the Year, and Executive of the Year.

[Tschaikisten]

Probably Sarmatians since Alans migrated all over Western Europe. But again it could be ancient

There are tons of different branches of haplogroup G in Europe. For example, only haplogroup G (without G1 and G2) is 48500 years old with TMRCA of 26300 ybp.

Haplogroup G2 is already confirmed in lot of Neolithic and later sites in Anatolia and Europe, so there is nothing about Alans and others Asian invaders in last 1500+ years in most of it's branches in Europe. Also, nothing to have common with Caucasus, considering it's low variety there. People should stop to be ''map'' experts when they talk about Y-DNA.

Also, most common G(2a) branch in Europe, L497, which is 99% European, and which makes like a half European G, is more than 7000 years old.

There are also tons of L497 branches, My lowest known branch for example is 3600 old with 3200 years TMRCA, and it's confirmed from the Scandinavia and Baltic to the Balkans and Western Europe.

So, the point is that we can not talk about whole haplogroups and big branches when there are tons of different branches in every haplogroup.

[LoLeL]

They in origin lived near Caucasus or along the northern shores of the Black Sea

...And some of them came to Europe.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ea/Alani_map.jpg

[Mens-Sarda]

...And some of them came to Europe.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ea/Alani_map.jpg

What is this map? It looks like the path of the Vandals

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2d/Invasions_of_the_Roman_Empire_1.png/1200px-Invasions_of_the_Roman_Empire_1.png

http://www.animatedmaps.div.ed.ac.uk/Divinity6web/images/vandals.gif

[Rethel]

Celts ARE Romans, it's just they are extinct except few in Italy, Balkans and Anatolia.

:picard2:

[Bosniensis]

Here are some famous G gangsters. They claim Otzi is actually the oldest european genome ever tested.

Larry Bird (photo by Steve Lipofsky - CC BY-SA 3.0)
Larry Bird (b. 1956), an American professional basketball executive, former coach and former player for the Boston Celtics, is thought to belong to haplogroup G-Z6748 (downstream of Z1816 and Y8903) based on the testing of several relatives descending from Thomas Bird at the Haplogroup G-L497 Y-DNA Project. Larry Bird is the only person in NBA history to be named Most Valuable Player, Coach of the Year, and Executive of the Year.

So if Larry Bird is G and he played for Boston Celtics

Then obviously G is Celtic.

[Rethel]

Is it related to Celtic tribes or Sarmatian groups like Alans? Or none of them?

Oldeuropean.