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wvwvw
02-07-2018, 09:02 AM
Black skin, blue eyes and curly hair: DNA tests reveal the extraordinary face of the first ancient Briton and 10,000-year-old Cheddar Man is directly related to one in ten people in the UK today
The bones are the oldest near-complete human skeleton ever found in Britain and were unearthed in 1903
Researchers extracted DNA data from bone powder by drilling a 2mm hole through the skull's inner ear bone
It showed that there was a 76 per cent chance that Cheddar Man was ‘dark to black’ by today's standards
Research suggests the first inhabitants of the British isles developed white skin later on than thought
By Colin Fernandez Science Correspondent For The Daily Mail and Harry Pettit and Tim Collins For Mailonline
PUBLISHED: 00:02 GMT, 7 February 2018 | UPDATED: 07:49 GMT, 7 February 2018

The first ancient Britons had black skin, dark curly hair and blue eyes, according to DNA tests.

The ‘extraordinary’ findings were made by cutting-edge genetic tests and facial reconstruction techniques carried out for the first time on the bones of ‘Cheddar Man’ who died 10,000 years ago.

The bones, found in Somerset's Cheddar Gorge, are the oldest near-complete human skeleton ever found in Britain and scientists said they were surprised to discover that the earliest Briton would be considered ‘black’ if he lived today.

The research suggests the first inhabitants of the British isles developed white skin later on than previously thought.

Experts also revealed that Cheddar Man is directly related to 1 in 10 people living in the UK today.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2018/02/06/17/48ED165E00000578-5358699-image-a-32_1517936566146.jpg
The first ancient Britons had black skin, dark curly hair and blue eyes, DNA tests show. The findings were made by genetic tests carried out for the first time on the bones of ‘Cheddar Man’ who died 10,000 years ago. The bones are the oldest near-complete human skeleton ever found in Britain

The Natural History Museum and Channel 4 unveiled a reconstruction of the ancient human yesterday, which was made for a documentary: The First Brit: Secrets of the 10,000 Year Old Man.

Cheddar Man’s bones caused a sensation when they were unearthed in Cheddar Gorge, Somerset in 1903.
For more than 100 years, scientists have tried to reveal Cheddar Man’s story, posing theories as to what he looked like, where he came from and what he can tell us about our earliest ancestors.

Only now with cutting-edge DNA and facial reconstruction techniques can we see for the first time the face of this 10,000 year old man, and ask how 300 generations later he relates to us today.

Experts from the museum and University College London conducted genetic tests on the remains, discovered in Gough’s Cave, which were taken by drilling a bone in the skull and sequencing the DNA preserved inside.

Dr Tom Booth, a scientist from the museum said that the findings that there was a 76 per cent chance that Cheddar Man was ‘dark to black’ – was ‘extraordinary’.

He said in the documentary: ‘If a human with that colour skin wandered around now, we’d call him black, and a lot darker than we’d expect for Europe as well.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2018/02/06/17/48ED916B00000578-5358699-image-a-33_1517936571637.jpg
Scientists said yesterday they were surprised to discover that the earliest Briton would be considered ‘black’ if he lived today. The research suggests the first inhabitants of the British isles developed white skin later on than previously thought

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2018/02/07/00/48EFC0AE00000578-5358699-Britain_at_the_time_of_Cheddar_Man_around_10_000_y ears_ago_was_v-a-1_1517962575924.jpg
Britain at the time of Cheddar Man, around 10,000 years ago, was very different from today. An Ice Age had just finished and the land had become green again. Perhaps in pursuit of game, hunter gathering tribes swept in from what is now continental Europe across a land bridge across the North Sea – known as Doggerland

He added: ‘It really shows up that these imaginary racial categories that we have are really very modern constructions, or very recent constructions that are really not applicable to the past at all.’

Dr Rick Schulting, an archaeology professor at Oxford University said: ‘It may be that we may have to rethink some of our notions of what it is to be British, what we expect a Briton to look like at this time.’

A previous reconstruction of Cheddar Man, made by the University of Manchester before DNA tests were available, depicted him with white skin.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2018/02/06/17/48ED16AD00000578-5358699-image-a-34_1517936576521.jpg
Experts from the museum and University College London genetic tests on the remains, taken by drilling a bone in the skull and sequencing the DNA preserved inside

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2018/02/07/00/48EF4BB100000578-5358699-Researchers_extracted_DNA_data_from_bone_powder_by _drilling_a_2m-a-2_1517962575956.jpg
Researchers extracted DNA data from bone powder by drilling a 2mm (0.07 inch) hole through the skull's inner ear bone. Tests on the DNA of modern Britons reveal we have around 10 per cent of our DNA in common with Cheddar Man and his tribe

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2018/02/06/19/48EF4B7100000578-5358699-For_more_than_100_years_scientists_have_tried_to_r eveal_Cheddar_-a-23_1517943693529.jpg
For more than 100 years, scientists have tried to reveal Cheddar Man’s story, posing theories as to what he looked like, where he came from and what he can tell us about our earliest ancestors. This image shows researchers responsible for the creation of the new bust

Professor Ian Barnes, a geneticist, who worked on the investigation said the discovery that the first Briton was black was not expected.

He said: ‘I assume that’s going to be a big surprise to most members of the public. It was certainly quite a big surprise to me.’

Britain in the Mesolithic era, the Middle stone age around 8,000 BC, was a very different place from today.
An Ice Age had just finished and the land had become green again. Herds of aurochs – huge, wild cattle - and red deer roamed the land.

Perhaps in pursuit of game, hunter gathering tribes swept in from what is now continental Europe across a land bridge across the North Sea – known as Doggerland.

WHO WAS THE CHEDDAR MAN AND WHAT DO WE KNOW ABOUT HIM?
Cheddar Man, unearthed in 1903 in a cave in Somerset, lived around 10,000 years ago. A huge hole in his skull (pictured) suggests he died a violent death +19
Cheddar Man, unearthed in 1903 in a cave in Somerset, lived around 10,000 years ago. A huge hole in his skull (pictured) suggests he died a violent death
Britain's oldest complete human skeleton, known as Cheddar Man, was unearthed in 1903 in Gough's Cave in Cheddar Gorge, Somerset.
The prehistoric male lived around 10,000 years ago, and a huge hole in his skull suggests he died a violent death.
Other remains found at Gough's Cave have been linked to cannibalistic rituals, trophy display and secondary burial by prehistoric humans.
Cheddar Man, thought to have died in his twenties and have had a relatively good diet, lived in Britain when it was almost completely depopulated.
Although previous populations had settled in Britain long before his arrival, they were wiped out before him.
The Cheddar Man marked the start of continuous habitation on the island, making him among the very first modern Britons.
Genetically, he belonged to a group of people known as the 'Western Hunter-Gatherers', Mesolithic-era individuals from Spain, Hungary and Luxembourg.
His ancestors migrated to Europe from the Middle East after the Ice Age and today, 10 per cent of White British people are descended from the group.
Scientists have reconstructed the Cheddar Man's face several times using the shape of his skull and assumptions about the appearance of the first Britons.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2018/02/06/16/48EF0AF000000578-5358699-Cheddar_Man_thought_to_have_died_in_his_twenties_a nd_have_had_a_-a-11_1517935111647.jpg
Cheddar Man, thought to have died in his twenties and have had a relatively good diet, lived in Britain when it was almost completely depopulated. Pictured is a reconstruction of the prehistoric male's remains as they were found in a Gough's Cave a century ago

The total human population in Britain was then just 12,000.
Tests on the DNA of modern Britons reveal we have around 10 per cent of our DNA in common with Cheddar Man and his tribe.

Close genetic matches to Cheddar Man have been found in remains in western Europe at sites including Spain, Hungary and Luxembourg
Scientists say that Cheddar Man’s ancestors arrived in the Britain via the Middle East, after coming out of Africa.
Professor Ian Barnes, research leader at the Natural History Museum, said at a screening of the documentary: ‘For me, it's not just the skin colour that's interesting, it's that combination of features that make him look not like anyone that you'd see today.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2018/02/06/17/48ED917200000578-5358699-image-a-37_1517936587628.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2018/02/06/19/48EF4B8E00000578-5358699-Experts_from_from_the_Natural_History_Museum_and_U niversity_Coll-a-26_1517943939395.jpg
Experts from from the Natural History Museum and University College London obtained just a few milligrams of bone powder for DNA analysis from Cheddar Man's skull

‘Not just dark skin and blue eyes, because you can get that combination, but also the face shape. So all of this combines together and make him just not the same as people you see around today.’

Professor Barnes added that although this was just one individual, he said: ‘At the moment I’d suggest this is a good model for what the rest of Britain looked like.’

Professor Barnes and Dr Selina Brace extracted DNA data from bone powder by drilling a 2mm (0.07 inch) hole through the skull's inner ear bone.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2018/02/07/07/48F40BE200000578-5358699-image-a-3_1517989680996.jpg
Although previous populations had settled in Britain long before his arrival, they were wiped out before him and he marked the start of continuous habitation on the island

HOW DID NORTHERN EUROPEANS EVOLVE TO HAVE LIGHT SKIN?
Common European traits like pale skin evolved relatively recently in central and southern Europe.

Researchers had long assumed that skin lightened as humans migrated from Africa and the Middle East into Europe around 40,000 years ago.

Experts had speculated that shorter day lengths and a sun lower in the sky favoured lighter skin, which more easily synthesised vitamin D.

But a groundbreaking 2015 analysis of the genomes of 83 prehistoric Europeans showed that populations in Europe about 8,000 years ago were still mixed and diverse.

Traits commonly associated with modern Europeans, such as tallness, the ability to digest milk, and lighter skin tone, only became ubiquitous in Europe relatively recently.

Experts found that about 8,500 years ago, early hunter-gatherers in central and southern Europe, including Spain, Luxembourg, and Hungary, had darker skin.

They lacked versions of two genes, called SLC24A5 and SLC45A2. These genes were responsible for 'depigmentation', and hence pale skin, in Europeans today.

In the far north of Europe, where low light levels favoured pale skin, the team found hunter-gatherers had a lighter complexion.

Two light-skin gene variants, SLC24A5 and SLC45A2, were found in seven people from the 7700-year-old Motala archaeological site in southern Sweden.

A third gene found in the group, HERC2/OCA2, has been linked to blue eyes and may also contribute to blonde hair and light skin.

The research shows that, contrary to previous theories, Europe was still a diverse continent up to at least 8,000 years ago, showing that pale skin developed in central and southern Europe much later than first thought.

‘With the new DNA information it was really revolutionary. And it allowed us to look more at race, this revealed stuff that we'd never had known before.’

Cheddar Man, is thought to have had a relatively good diet, and his bones suggest that he would be much stronger than most people today.

Although previous populations had settled in Britain long before his arrival, they were wiped out before him and he marked the start of continuous habitation on the island.

Professor Mark Thomas said one theory is that white skin developed in Britain and western Europe after our ancestors switched to farming – and began to eat less meat.

This meant that instead of getting a lot of Vitamin D from liver and fish, they needed to get more from sunlight, which meant they needed fairer skin.

Alfons Kennis said: ‘People define themselves by which country they're from, and they assume that their ancestors were just like them.

'And then suddenly new research shows that we used to be a totally different people with a different genetic makeup.

‘People will be surprised, and maybe it will make immigrants feel a bit more involved in the story. And maybe it gets rid of the idea that you have to look a certain way to be from somewhere. We are all immigrants.’

Dr Silvia Bello, along with the Natural History Museum’s Professor Chris Stringer, has spent the last ten years analysing the bones of the earlier inhabitants of the cave which date back nearly 5,000 years before Cheddar Man.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2018/02/07/07/48F40BE600000578-5358699-image-a-10_1517989739867.jpg
Professor Mark Thomas said one theory is that white skin developed in Britain and western Europe after our ancestors switched to farming – and began to eat less meat

They have studied cups made from human skulls which suggest this cannibalistic behaviour was driven by a type of ritual rather than starvation.

The DNA profile of Cheddar Man has revealed that, although they were found in the very same cave, he shares no direct ancestry with these earlier cannibals.

The First Brit: Secrets of the 10,000 Year Old Man airs on Channel 4 on Sunday, February 18.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-5358699/First-Brit-dark-skinned-blue-eyed.html#ixzz56PnuWdlk

Linebacker
02-07-2018, 09:17 AM
I think the skin is a bit ridiculous.

Hunter gatheres did have a dark tone genetically but it was something like a sun tan, they made the guy straight out black.

Also never has ever been recorded curly hair in any of the samples.

Vigilance
02-07-2018, 09:28 AM
black skin is too extreme I think, the climate of Northern Europe, Britain in a wider sense, just doesn't allow for that... winter season/snow fall white icy landscape... I can accept Mediterranids and Nordids in the Near East having dark brown-almost black skin but Britain? I think not... The Irish are the fairest of all Europeans and all humans.

you can have a skin colour shift from black to white in 10 000 years, thats possible but not the facial structure, the face is too archaeomorphic/unrefined to be just 10 000 years old

by the way didn't they already find Cro Magnoid skulls older than 10 000 years?

I can see the Europiform tendency in this reconstruction, but 10 000 years is too late a time to still have such a face, if this reconstruction is true there must have been a very strong selection, that constantly developed the face to a modern European

this face looks to me only 35% European/Caucasoid at most.

Kamal900
02-07-2018, 09:31 AM
Black skin? He most likely had dark skin as in the case of dark skinned Caucasoid peoples of the world. Race is not based on skin color, and he was racially Caucasoid as in the case for Europeans, MENA and Central and upper caste South Asians.

wvwvw
02-07-2018, 09:36 AM
Some amusing comments

MAROULIA, ATHENS, Greece, 3 hours ago
I cannot stop laughing. He looks exactly like the two researchers except for the skin colour. This picture with all three of them smiling is so funny.

AngelisOne, Newcastle, United Kingdom, 8 hours ago
So... the Anglo-Saxons were immigrants

Blueness, Salford, United Kingdom, 9 hours ago
I have blue eyes, curly eyes and feel 10,000 years old!

iRobbie, Edinburgh, United Kingdom, 16 minutes ago
His descendant drinks in my pub! I'm sure of it!

Son of England, London, United Kingdom, 8 hours ago
Wow, what a bunch of codswollop , the iceman otzi an extremely well preserved ice mummy found on the border of France / Austria 25 years ago didn't need DNA testing still had his skin which was Caucasian , he dates 3500 years BC so that's 5500 years ago, that leaves 4000 years for the evolution of cheddar mans skin which is still very dark to get to white , impossible by evolutionary possibilities, Eventually DNA testing on ice man OTZI puts his closest living relatives in Sardinia which is even more Southern Europe , not to mention gobekli tepe in turkey which dates to 9000BC and Egyptians who were not black either date back and disprove this nonsense timeline .

Arq151, Worcester, United Kingdom, 9 hours ago
so we evolved to be white ?

Pretending to care, London, United Kingdom, 1 hour ago
actually it was the grain we grew that provided Vitamins D as we wernt receiving the right amount of UV light in europe but this took millennia

Lelly McKelly, Winchester, United Kingdom, 1 hour ago
No, you lost your pigment because you didn¿t need protection from the sun, but nice try, kiddo.

Kamal900
02-07-2018, 09:42 AM
Some amusing comments

MAROULIA, ATHENS, Greece, 3 hours ago
I cannot stop laughing. He looks exactly like the two researchers except for the skin colour. This picture with all three of them smiling is so funny.

AngelisOne, Newcastle, United Kingdom, 8 hours ago
So... the Anglo-Saxons were immigrants

Blueness, Salford, United Kingdom, 9 hours ago
I have blue eyes, curly eyes and feel 10,000 years old!

iRobbie, Edinburgh, United Kingdom, 16 minutes ago
His descendant drinks in my pub! I'm sure of it!

Son of England, London, United Kingdom, 8 hours ago
Wow, what a bunch of codswollop , the iceman otzi an extremely well preserved ice mummy found on the border of France / Austria 25 years ago didn't need DNA testing still had his skin which was Caucasian , he dates 3500 years BC so that's 5500 years ago, that leaves 4000 years for the evolution of cheddar mans skin which is still very dark to get to white , impossible by evolutionary possibilities, Eventually DNA testing on ice man OTZI puts his closest living relatives in Sardinia which is even more Southern Europe , not to mention gobekli tepe in turkey which dates to 9000BC and Egyptians who were not black either date back and disprove this nonsense timeline .

Arq151, Worcester, United Kingdom, 9 hours ago
so we evolved to be white ?

Pretending to care, London, United Kingdom, 1 hour ago
actually it was the grain we grew that provided Vitamins D as we wernt receiving the right amount of UV light in europe but this took millennia

Lelly McKelly, Winchester, United Kingdom, 1 hour ago
No, you lost your pigment because you didn¿t need protection from the sun, but nice try, kiddo.

I guess curly hair is ancestral to many peoples, lol. Me and my brothers have curly hair too.
https://tse3.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.w8_EaP-vNyc5p1y4OJU4CQHaJr&pid=15.1&P=0&w=300&h=300

The hair of the gods indeed.

Hadouken
02-07-2018, 09:49 AM
he wuz kang

Jacques de Imbelloni
02-07-2018, 09:50 AM
https://static.lared.am/adjuntos/210/imagenes/011/788/0011788193.jpg

Vigilance
02-07-2018, 09:51 AM
...
The bones, found in Somerset's Cheddar Gorge, are the oldest near-complete human skeleton ever found in Britain and scientists said they were surprised to discover that the earliest Briton would be considered ‘black’ if he lived today.

...He added: ‘It really shows up that these imaginary racial categories that we have are really very modern constructions, or very recent constructions that are really not applicable to the past at all.’

Dr Rick Schulting, an archaeology professor at Oxford University said: ‘It may be that we may have to rethink some of our notions of what it is to be British, what we expect a Briton to look like at this time.’

Scientists say that Cheddar Man’s ancestors arrived in the Britain via the Middle East, after coming out of Africa.

Researchers had long assumed that skin lightened as humans migrated from Africa and the Middle East into Europe around 40,000 years ago.

Alfons Kennis said: ‘People define themselves by which country they're from, and they assume that their ancestors were just like them.

'And then suddenly new research shows that we used to be a totally different people with a different genetic makeup.

‘People will be surprised, and maybe it will make immigrants feel a bit more involved in the story. And maybe it gets rid of the idea that you have to look a certain way to be from somewhere. We are all immigrants.’



So much of anti-racialist, scripted, zorg reptilian shit. So unscientific and unprofessional, so phony, so deliberate...

these people also are easy to identify because they always talk about Europeans coming from the "Middle East".

How the hell is a brachiomorph supposed to come from the Middle East, and you have those Semitic looking Neanderthals, Arabids, Iranids, Near Eastern Aurignacoids at the same time?

Smeagol
02-07-2018, 09:54 AM
‘People will be surprised, and maybe it will make immigrants feel a bit more involved in the story. And maybe it gets rid of the idea that you have to look a certain way to be from somewhere. We are all immigrants.’

Sounds like more multicultural propaganda. Although, La Brana was also said to have dark to black skin and blue eyes. Light skin is only supposed to have arrived with the Neolithic.

wvwvw
02-07-2018, 09:54 AM
I guess curly hair is ancestral to many peoples, lol. Me and my brothers have curly hair too.
https://tse3.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.w8_EaP-vNyc5p1y4OJU4CQHaJr&pid=15.1&P=0&w=300&h=300

The hair of the gods indeed.

Many don’t seem to distinguish Curly hair from wooly hair

Curly hair
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/c2/b1/ab/c2b1ab8de390375317c1225e344752ed--toga-party-male-hairstyles.jpg

Wooly hair
http://image.wigsbuy.com/Upload/Image/2013/12/230-312/32d9b7b4-fd1f-44f8-b461-dbd3bad1639a.jpg

Mortimer
02-08-2018, 04:35 PM
It was predictable that some would denie that he had black skin they cannot accept science

Kouros
02-08-2018, 04:42 PM
Sounds like more multicultural propaganda. Although, La Brana was also said to have dark to black skin and blue eyes. Light skin is only supposed to have arrived with the Neolithic.

aka 'pop science'

Rethel
02-08-2018, 04:42 PM
And now we have the third thread about this guy...

Tauromachos
02-08-2018, 05:38 PM
Similar individuals still exist in Britain
http://www.celebplasticsurgeryonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Tom-Jones-plastic-surgery-featured-800x429.jpg

Graham
02-09-2018, 03:15 PM
Bronze age immigrants with their pottery! neolithic immigrants with their advanced farming! Kick 'em out, taking our trees down, *snigger taking our berries *snigger. A hunter gatherer Britain for hunter gatherer people. Muslamic rayguns, councils taking down our flegs, hunter gatherer exit etc.. etc..

Graham
02-09-2018, 03:26 PM
https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/martina-8.png?strip=all&w=960

Leto
02-09-2018, 04:15 PM
Even if they were dark-skinned, it's simply ridiculous to say they were BLACK and looked AFRICAN. I mean it's obvious that the cultural Marxists twist and turn science to justify and strengthen their malicious narrative. A prehistoric Briton was black! How can you not accept refugees, Muslums, etc.? We're all immigrants, there's no such thing as British culture, etc. What a sad time to live in! :picard1:

Gangrel
02-09-2018, 04:17 PM
Looks like a dark skinned Mongoloid tbh

Figaro
02-09-2018, 04:19 PM
I thought WHG's were supposed to be all straight-haired.

Figaro
02-09-2018, 04:26 PM
lol, my bad. I should have looked at earlier comments- this shit has been addressed.

Voskos
02-09-2018, 04:27 PM
Did he like watermelon and fried chicken as well?

Autrigón
02-09-2018, 05:01 PM
Cheddar is a kind of cheese and thats all.

Neon Knight
02-11-2018, 07:37 PM
There's a 1 in 4 chance he was white after all. But he's only 10% related to modern Britons in any case. I wonder what he would get on 23andMe. 90% uncategorizable?

Leto
02-12-2018, 10:39 AM
There's a 1 in 4 chance he was white after all. But he's only 10% related to modern Britons in any case. I wonder what he would get on 23andMe. 90% uncategorizable?
Wasn't the Neolithic population of Britain largely replaced by Bronze/Iron Age invaders?

Danniboy
02-14-2018, 06:54 AM
The vast majority of ancient Europeans have been portrayed with dark skin not black skin. Also, Cheddar Man is NOT the first modern man in Britain. There were modern humans in Britain before him:
https://news.nationalgeographic.com/content/dam/news/photos/000/758/75845.ngsversion.1422285557791.adapt.1900.1.jpg

Danniboy
02-14-2018, 06:57 AM
Cheddar Man was NOT the first Brit. I wish this lie would die.

Neon Knight
02-25-2018, 10:30 PM
Wasn't the Neolithic population of Britain largely replaced by Bronze/Iron Age invaders?
Apparently, yes. By the white-skinned Beaker People

Neon Knight
02-25-2018, 10:37 PM
The vast majority of ancient Europeans have been portrayed with dark skin not black skin. Also, Cheddar Man is NOT the first modern man in Britain. There were modern humans in Britain before him:
https://news.nationalgeographic.com/content/dam/news/photos/000/758/75845.ngsversion.1422285557791.adapt.1900.1.jpg
Britain only came into existance about 6000 years ago when it was separated from the continent, so there cannot have been any Britons before then.

Graham
02-26-2018, 08:02 AM
There's a 1 in 4 chance he was white after all. But he's only 10% related to modern Britons in any case. I wonder what he would get on 23andMe. 90% uncategorizable?

It is less than 90%, because this was a West Hunter Gatherer rather than the Mid Neolithics who were replaced by the Bronze age Beaker migrants. But... We have WHG from continental Europe that the beaker folk have in them.

Potentially there was an Iron age wave into Britain next that shared similar autosomal genetics. What I am interested in is, a timeline of when R1b-U152 & R1b-U106 come into Britain and their various sublclades.

Imagine how beautiful Britain was back then, with all that woodland. Must have been some place for this man. :)

Graham
02-26-2018, 08:12 AM
Cheddar is a kind of cheese and thats all.

The best type of cheese and I will go to war over it. Wensleydale is nice too.

Leto
02-26-2018, 09:57 PM
Starting at 23:43 the Youtuber Survive the Jive popularly explains the Cheddar man "controversy" (which is not really one at all):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y80I62eH6g8

Rethel
02-27-2018, 11:16 AM
Cheddar man "controversy" (which is not really one at all):

It s a controversy for non secure racists like you, and wannabes like he.

Imperator Biff
03-05-2018, 10:50 PM
There's a 1 in 4 chance he was white after all. But he's only 10% related to modern Britons in any case. I wonder what he would get on 23andMe. 90% uncategorizable?

Genetically WHG like cheddar man cluster closest with modern day estonians and finns.

AphroditeWorshiper
04-08-2019, 04:23 AM
Genetically WHG like cheddar man cluster closest with modern day estonians and finns.

wrong

Estonians and Finns are genetically EHG cluster

WHG it's almost extinct on Northeast, people need to stop with that myth

the last WHGs on Northeast was Kunda and Narva culture, who was replaced by Yamna

genetic test also are still a shit, because they don't separate EHG and WHG, they just use WHG always

Mens-Sarda
04-08-2019, 07:35 AM
Surely he wasn't black as coal, at maximum he was olive skinned.

WHG from Spain
https://www.sciencenews.org/sites/default/files/images/ts_LaBrana1_skull_free.jpg

Previous reconstruction of Cheddar man
https://i2-prod.devonlive.com/incoming/article1178205.ece/ALTERNATES/s810/Cheddar-Man.png

AphroditeWorshiper
04-08-2019, 03:43 PM
Surely he wasn't black as coal, at maximum he was olive skinned.

WHG from Spain
https://www.sciencenews.org/sites/default/files/images/ts_LaBrana1_skull_free.jpg

Previous reconstruction of Cheddar man
https://i2-prod.devonlive.com/incoming/article1178205.ece/ALTERNATES/s810/Cheddar-Man.png

but their genetics was similar to Oceanians, so maybe like Papuans or Australian aboriginals?

also the reconstruction below it's too white, so, I don't think

Imperator Biff
04-08-2019, 07:17 PM
wrong

Estonians and Finns are genetically EHG cluster

WHG it's almost extinct on Northeast, people need to stop with that myth

the last WHGs on Northeast was Kunda and Narva culture, who was replaced by Yamna

genetic test also are still a shit, because they don't separate EHG and WHG, they just use WHG always
Wtf are you talking about?
Yamnaya only ever made it as far as the carpathian basin. They never made it into the Baltic region.
You’re confusing yamnaya with corded ware who did but not yamnaya.
Steppe ancestry of Balts is also inflated on most autosomal calculators due to their high EHG component.

Ayetooey
04-08-2019, 07:29 PM
Black pride.

Ayetooey
04-08-2019, 07:30 PM
but their genetics was similar to Oceanians, so maybe like Papuans or Australian aboriginals?

also the reconstruction below it's too white, so, I don't think

Lol not true; the Spanish hunter gatherer was mainly Baltic and plotted with Lithuanians. It's gedmatch was posted here before. They were physically dark but north east euro plotting not Oceanians.

Ayetooey
04-08-2019, 07:36 PM
Found the kit. La Brana HG.

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 46.66
2 North_Atlantic 44.49
3 West_Med 3.53
4 Oceanian 2.19
5 East_Asian 2.19
6 Sub-Saharan 0.93

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Southwest_Finnish 9.4
2 North_Swedish 11.09
3 Finnish 11.69
4 La_Brana-1 11.97
5 Estonian 12.31
6 Polish 15.32
7 Belorussian 15.34
8 East_Finnish 15.46
9 Swedish 16.11
10 Lithuanian 16.19
11 Russian_Smolensk 16.63
12 Estonian_Polish 16.63
13 South_Polish 16.7
14 Ukrainian 18.45
15 Southwest_Russian 18.89
16 Norwegian 18.98
17 Ukrainian_Lviv 19.21
18 Ukrainian_Belgorod 19.23
19 East_German 19.39
20 Kargopol_Russian 19.85

Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 63.7% Southwest_Finnish + 36.3% La_Brana-1 @ 7.87
2 53.8% North_Swedish + 46.2% La_Brana-1 @ 8.16
3 55.4% North_Swedish + 44.6% Estonian @ 8.4
4 66% North_Swedish + 34% Lithuanian @ 8.54
5 60.8% Estonian + 39.2% Swedish @ 8.63
6 66% Estonian + 34% Norwegian @ 8.7
7 53.4% North_Swedish + 46.6% Finnish @ 8.89
8 62.7% La_Brana-1 + 37.3% Swedish @ 8.95
9 64.2% Finnish + 35.8% Swedish @ 9.03
10 73.5% Southwest_Finnish + 26.5% North_Swedish @ 9.12
11 69.5% Finnish + 30.5% Norwegian @ 9.13
12 69.6% Estonian + 30.4% North_Dutch @ 9.17
13 73.2% Estonian + 26.8% West_Scottish @ 9.19
14 69.3% Estonian + 30.7% Danish @ 9.2
15 50.2% Swedish + 49.8% Lithuanian @ 9.22
16 87.8% Southwest_Finnish + 12.2% Swedish @ 9.22
17 68.6% La_Brana-1 + 31.4% Norwegian @ 9.26
18 91.2% Southwest_Finnish + 8.8% Norwegian @ 9.26
19 72.9% Estonian + 27.1% Irish @ 9.3
20 95.1% Southwest_Finnish + 4.9% North_Dutch @ 9.35

Dick
04-08-2019, 07:36 PM
Lol not true; the Spanish hunter gatherer was mainly Baltic and plotted with Lithuanians. It's gedmatch was posted here before. They were physically dark but north east euro plotting not Oceanians.

Wasnt Cheddar man like a modern day Norwegian?

Ayetooey
04-08-2019, 07:37 PM
Wasnt Cheddar man like a modern day Norwegian?

I haven't seen Cheddarmans gedmatch, but both the Iberian Hunter gatherer and the North Norwegian hunter gatherer plot very close, and are mainly baltic/atlantic.

Ayetooey
04-08-2019, 07:40 PM
Ok just found cheddarmans kit. NW6414429


Population
North_Atlantic 49.14 Pct
Baltic 50.46 Pct
West_Med -
West_Asian -
East_Med -
Red_Sea -
South_Asian -
East_Asian -
Siberian -
Amerindian -
Oceanian 0.40 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

# Population (source) Distance
1 Southwest_Finnish 13.97
2 North_Swedish 15.47
3 Finnish 15.54
4 Estonian 15.99
5 La_Brana-1 17.01
6 East_Finnish 18.86
7 Belorussian 19.38
8 Lithuanian 19.41
9 Swedish 19.7
10 Polish 20.16
11 Estonian_Polish 20.86
12 Russian_Smolensk 20.91
13 South_Polish 21.79
14 Norwegian 22.02
15 Southwest_Russian 23.21
16 Ukrainian_Belgorod 23.48
17 Ukrainian 23.55
18 North_German 23.69
19 Kargopol_Russian 23.89
20 Danish 23.92

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 73.5% Southwest_Finnish + 26.5% La_Brana-1 @ 13.46
2 53.1% North_Swedish + 46.9% Estonian @ 13.46
3 67.5% Estonian + 32.5% Norwegian @ 13.66
4 63.3% Estonian + 36.7% Swedish @ 13.71
5 65.8% North_Swedish + 34.2% Lithuanian @ 13.73
6 50.6% North_Swedish + 49.4% Finnish @ 13.78
7 80% Southwest_Finnish + 20% North_Swedish @ 13.87
8 93.9% Southwest_Finnish + 6.1% Norwegian @ 13.93
9 92.6% Southwest_Finnish + 7.4% Swedish @ 13.93
10 71.2% Finnish + 28.8% Norwegian @ 13.93
11 67% Finnish + 33% Swedish @ 13.95
12 95.5% Southwest_Finnish + 4.5% Estonian @ 13.97
13 100% Southwest_Finnish + 0% Abhkasian @ 13.97
14 100% Southwest_Finnish + 0% Adygei @ 13.97
15 100% Southwest_Finnish + 0% Afghan_Pashtun @ 13.97
16 100% Southwest_Finnish + 0% Afghan_Tadjik @ 13.97
17 100% Southwest_Finnish + 0% Afghan_Turkmen @ 13.97
18 100% Southwest_Finnish + 0% Aghan_Hazara @ 13.97
19 100% Southwest_Finnish + 0% Algerian @ 13.97
20 100% Southwest_Finnish + 0% Algerian_Jewish @ 13.97

Dick
04-08-2019, 07:47 PM
^ yeah they were all similar. he was probably I2

Ayetooey
04-08-2019, 07:49 PM
^ yeah they were all similar. he was probably I2

Found this on Eupedia.

Cheddar Man Genetic analysis showed that it was Y DNA I2a2b-S10750 Or I-L38*
Cheddar Man is a "partial" I-L38*, a line ancestral to all I-L38s today as follows:
Y11324/FGC29600+
Y11319/FGC29553+
S2524/SK1263/V2774+
S2519+
Y13463/FGC29582+
S2592+
S8646 (2/3 reads derived)
The other SNPs are ancestral
https://yfull.com/tree/I-L38/

Leto
04-08-2019, 07:51 PM
Ok just found cheddarmans kit. NW6414429


Population
North_Atlantic 49.14 Pct
Baltic 50.46 Pct
West_Med -
West_Asian -
East_Med -
Red_Sea -
South_Asian -
East_Asian -
Siberian -
Amerindian -
Oceanian 0.40 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

# Population (source) Distance
1 Southwest_Finnish 13.97
2 North_Swedish 15.47
3 Finnish 15.54
4 Estonian 15.99
5 La_Brana-1 17.01
6 East_Finnish 18.86
7 Belorussian 19.38
8 Lithuanian 19.41
9 Swedish 19.7
10 Polish 20.16
11 Estonian_Polish 20.86
12 Russian_Smolensk 20.91
13 South_Polish 21.79
14 Norwegian 22.02
15 Southwest_Russian 23.21
16 Ukrainian_Belgorod 23.48
17 Ukrainian 23.55
18 North_German 23.69
19 Kargopol_Russian 23.89
20 Danish 23.92

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 73.5% Southwest_Finnish + 26.5% La_Brana-1 @ 13.46
2 53.1% North_Swedish + 46.9% Estonian @ 13.46
3 67.5% Estonian + 32.5% Norwegian @ 13.66
4 63.3% Estonian + 36.7% Swedish @ 13.71
5 65.8% North_Swedish + 34.2% Lithuanian @ 13.73
6 50.6% North_Swedish + 49.4% Finnish @ 13.78
7 80% Southwest_Finnish + 20% North_Swedish @ 13.87
8 93.9% Southwest_Finnish + 6.1% Norwegian @ 13.93
9 92.6% Southwest_Finnish + 7.4% Swedish @ 13.93
10 71.2% Finnish + 28.8% Norwegian @ 13.93
11 67% Finnish + 33% Swedish @ 13.95
12 95.5% Southwest_Finnish + 4.5% Estonian @ 13.97
13 100% Southwest_Finnish + 0% Abhkasian @ 13.97
14 100% Southwest_Finnish + 0% Adygei @ 13.97
15 100% Southwest_Finnish + 0% Afghan_Pashtun @ 13.97
16 100% Southwest_Finnish + 0% Afghan_Tadjik @ 13.97
17 100% Southwest_Finnish + 0% Afghan_Turkmen @ 13.97
18 100% Southwest_Finnish + 0% Aghan_Hazara @ 13.97
19 100% Southwest_Finnish + 0% Algerian @ 13.97
20 100% Southwest_Finnish + 0% Algerian_Jewish @ 13.97
Population
ANE 8.29 Pct
ASE -
WHG-UHG 90.17 Pct
East_Eurasian 1.50 Pct
West_African -
East_African -
ENF -

Did he actually have ANE ancestry?

Ayetooey
04-08-2019, 07:57 PM
Population
ANE 8.29 Pct
ASE -
WHG-UHG 90.17 Pct
East_Eurasian 1.50 Pct
West_African -
East_African -
ENF -

Did he actually have ANE ancestry?

I wouldn't of thought so. Here's another.

Eurogenes Hunter_Gatherer vs. Farmer Admixture Proportions

Population

Anatolian Farmer -
Baltic Hunter Gatherer 94.00 Pct
Middle Eastern Herder -
East Asian Farmer 0.09
Pct South American Hunter Gatherer -
South Asian Hunter Gatherer -
North Eurasian Hunter Gatherer -
East African Pastoralist -
Oceanian Hunter Gatherer 0.35 Pct
Mediterranean Farmer 5.56 Pct
Pygmy Hunter Gatherer -
Bantu Farmer -

Farmer?

Morena
04-08-2019, 08:00 PM
We wuz Balts

AphroditeWorshiper
04-08-2019, 08:17 PM
Lol not true; the Spanish hunter gatherer was mainly Baltic and plotted with Lithuanians. It's gedmatch was posted here before. They were physically dark but north east euro plotting not Oceanians.

that's because they don't make the difference between WHG and EHG. and Balts are the highest with EHG

we have two people, WHG who was a completely extinct people and EHG who are Balts and Finns

AphroditeWorshiper
04-08-2019, 08:18 PM
explain me how a people who was extremely archaic with roots with OOA people, descendents of Aurignacians being genetically Baltic?

THAT'S FAKE

AphroditeWorshiper
04-08-2019, 08:21 PM
EHGs

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/totalwar-ar/images/9/95/Lithuanians.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20161005124534

WHGs

https://ep01.epimg.net/cultura/imagenes/2018/02/28/actualidad/1519823564_200839_1519823683_noticia_normal.jpg

RenaRyuguu
10-03-2021, 10:39 PM
this is really funny