Neolithic British ancestry in Bronze Age Britain

[Peterski]

There seems to be a north-south cline with more Neolithic British ancestry in Scotland than in England:

https://i.imgur.com/A2UMbst.png

https://i.imgur.com/rDLoC2u.png

^^^
I mapped those 34 samples (blue = has Britain Neolithic admix, red = doesn't have, big dot = I2a2):

https://i.imgur.com/egmOAjc.png

Northern English and Scottish I2a2 from the Copper-Bronze Ages:

Stockton-on-Tees, County Durham, (sample I1767), 2200–1970 BC, I2a2a1a1a
Pabay Mor, Isle of Lewis, Western Isles (sample I2655), 1442–1273 BC, I2a2a1a1a1

[Peterski]

^^^ That pretty much explains why Scotland has so much of I2a2 today:

https://i.imgur.com/Zf2LaQu.gif

I2a1 is also more frequent in Scotland and Ireland compared to England:

https://i.imgur.com/RXH12Of.png

[Peterski]

Any thoughts on this?

Maybe Southern Wales also had more of Neolithic ancestry (even though it doesn't have so much of I2):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silures#Origins


According to Tacitus's biography of Agricola, the Silures usually had a dark complexion and curly hair. Due to their appearance, Tacitus believed they had crossed over from Spain at an earlier date.

"... the swarthy faces of the Silures, the curly quality, in general, of their hair, and the position of Spain opposite their shores, attest to the passage of Iberians in old days and the occupation by them of these districts; ..." (Tacitus Annales Xi.ii, translated by M. Hutton)

Jordanes, in his Origins and Deeds of the Goths, describes the Silures.

"The Silures have swarthy features and are usually born with curly black hair, but the inhabitants of Caledonia have reddish hair and large loose-jointed bodies. They are like the Gauls or the Spaniards."

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/86/Wales.pre-Roman.jpg/800px-Wales.pre-Roman.jpg

[Peterski]

People used to argue that I2a2 in the British Isles is Germanic. But these ancient samples debunk this. And also in Ireland there is more of I2a2 than of I1, R1b-U106 and R1a combined. No any existing Germanic population has such a weird proportion of I2a2 to other haplogroups.

Most of I2a2 carriers in Ireland have Germanic surnames (according to data from FTDNA Projects). These are probably descendants of Lowland Scots who settled in Ulster. However, in Scotland itself this haplogrup seems to be of Neolithic British origin, rather than of Germanic origin.

I guess that it has to be associated with Caledonians rather than with Gaels.

[Peterski]

Curious how N. Ireland and the Hadrian's wall share something of a latitudinal significance.

Most of I2a2 in Northern Ireland probably came there recently with Lowland Scots.

On the other hand, in Scotland it seems to be ancient, dating back to Neolithic Farmers. It is quite common in all of Scotland, including formerly Pictish areas, at over 5%. More common than in most of England. But as you noticed, its frequency peaks between these two walls (maybe it is due to recent genetic drift or founder effects, but maybe not?):

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/ce/Hadrians_Wall_map.svg/800px-Hadrians_Wall_map.svg.png

Perhaps this pattern of I2a2 being more common in Southern Scotland (over 10%) than in the rest of Scotland (over 5%) is recent. But we cannot exclude the possibility, that it is ancient and dates back all the way to times when those two Roman walls were constructed. Perhaps a large number of men with I2a2 were "trapped" between the Hadrian's Wall and the Antonine Wall?

[Robocop]

I always knew Scots are the best British. lol

[Peterski]

Let's take a closer look at subclades of I2a2 in various ancient DNA samples:

Copper Age Spain:

I0581, El Mirador, I2a2a1

Neolithic Britain:

I2691, Distillery Cave, I2a2a1
I0520, Banbury Lane, I2a2a1
I3134, Raschoille Cave, I2a2a1a1a
I2660, Distillery Cave, I2a2a1a1a
I2933, South Ronaldsay, I2a2a1a1a2

Beaker & Bronze Age Britain:

I1767, Co. Durham, I2a2a1a1a
I2655, Isle of Lewis, I2a2a1a1a1

Globular Amphora culture:

I2441, Kierzkowo, I2a2a1b
ILK001, Ilyatka, I2a2a1b
ILK002, Ilyatka, I2a2a1b2

Yamnaya/Catacomb cultures:

Bul4, Mednikarovo, I2a2a1b1b
RISE552, Ulan IV, I2a2a1b1b

Vatya culture in Hungary:

RISE479, Erd 4, I2a2a1a2a

=============

^^^
Copper-Bronze Age British I2a is most similar to Neolithic British and Copper Age Iberian I2a.

[cosmoo]

Not all of it in Britain is of Neolithic origin, though.
For example, in Bell Beakers from Hungary, I2a2 CTS616>Y3721>Y3670>L1229 has been found (Olaide et al. 2017), which has been commonly marked as "Megalithic western European" on Eupedia. We see that it is completely erroneous, and that it was brought by Indo-Europeans.

[Peterski]

in Bell Beakers from Hungary, I2a2 CTS616>Y3721>Y3670>L1229 has been found

L1229 is I2a2a1a2a: https://isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpI.html

British samples belong to a different subclade:

I1767, Co. Durham, I2a2a1a1a
I2655, Isle of Lewis, I2a2a1a1a1


We see that it is completely erroneous, and that it was brought by Indo-Europeans.

Just because something was found in Bell Beaker doesn't mean it is originally Indo-European. Beakers were not 100% Yamnaya/Steppe, but they assimilated also local Neolithic folks.

In fact that subclade was found in Non-IE Vatya culture in Hungary:

RISE479, Erd 4, I2a2a1a2a

So Bell Beakers probably assimilated it from local Vatya culture.

[Dick]

https://youtu.be/lHZW2OTNaS4

[Peterski]

All the autosomal data is here, by the way:

Page 17, Figure 3:

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/early/2017/05/09/135962.full.pdf

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/early/2017/05/09/135962

Page 90, Table S9:

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/suppl/2017/05/09/135962.DC1/135962-1.pdf

Data on Y-DNA subclades is here:

http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/copperbronzeagedna.shtml

[Peterski]

In Britain, only I2a2-L801 ("Cont" branch) is really from Germanic immigrants (and is mostly concentrated in England), while other subclades of I2a2 (such as I2a2-M284 "Isles" and I2a2-L1229 "Roots") are of local British Neolithic-Megalithic origin, and are most common in Ireland and Highland Scotland.

[Bellbeaking]

haak et al 2015 the scottish have much less neolithic than the english, they english must have had some serious med input at a later date

[mattp]

What about today’s population in north wales? They seem to be in an area best protected from Germanic invasions and seem to have a higher incidence of darker hair than most of the British isles. Also seem to be relating more close to more ancient populations https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-18489735

[Rædwald]

What do you know abouy my group?


L1286 originated during the Late Paleolithic period. Nevertheless, 99% of modern carriers belong to the L233 subclade and share a common patrilinear ancestor less than 2,000 years ago. L233 is most common in the British Isles, but is occasionally encountered in the Netherlands, Scandinavia, Germany, France and Poland.

[Bellbeaking]

What about today’s population in north wales? They seem to be in an area best protected from Germanic invasions and seem to have a higher incidence of darker hair than most of the British isles. Also seem to be relating more close to more ancient populations https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-18489735

North Welsh are mostly IE Bell beaker, they have very low Neolithic DNA. That article is old and very wrong. But the welsh probably where shielded from post Beaker migrations (celto-germanic) than other Britons

[mattp]

North Welsh are mostly IE Bell beaker, they have very low Neolithic DNA. That article is old and very wrong. But the welsh probably where shielded from post Beaker migrations (celto-germanic) than other Britons

Struggling to find much in the way of dna samples/ studies specifically from that area, would certainly make sense if this particular area did resemble more ancient populations of even before the neolithic. Blonde hair seems to be pretty low in this region, which I thought would be a more bell beaker trait.

[Token]

North Welsh are mostly IE Bell beaker, they have very low Neolithic DNA. That article is old and very wrong. But the welsh probably where shielded from post Beaker migrations (celto-germanic) than other Britons

A lot of unambiguous Urnfield-related admixture too.

[1] "distance%=2.1181"
Welsh
Wales_CA_EBA,64.8
CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany,35.2