Iraq Turkmen Arabic DNA not Central Asian. They are Turkified Arabic people.

[ButlerKing]

As you can you see Iraqi Turkmen Y-DNA is nearly indistinguishable from Arabic people other than it's 2% haplogroup Q

https://i.imgur.com/5EspfRl.jpg

Their most common Y-DNA itself is E1b1b which is nearly 18% in Iraqi Turkmen but 0% in Turkish and other Turkic people. E1b1b is most common in genetically Europeans Greeks, Balkans North African Berbers, mix raced East Africans.

http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2012/24/1339372923-e1.png


Another haplogroup marker which is not central Asian is haplogroup J1 12.5%

Although Turkish have 9% haplogroup J1 the Turkmen have it 0% only the Uzbeks have it few percent.
Haplogroup J1 is most common in Arabic people and North Caucasus people. It's even more higher Caucasus people.

It doesn't matter if other Turks have it, the point is they can't be descendant of Turkmens if Turkmen have 0% or very low J1

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/db/HG_J1_%28ADN-Y%29.PNG

[Marmara]

Ok

[Starseed88]

OK! Plus, why are interested in posting an article about Iraqi Turkmen when you're of British origin that's just weird or do you have a connection?

[ButlerKing]

Ok

Do you think Iraqi Turkmen are direct descendants of Turkmen or Turkish ??????

History[edit]


" the largest migration, during the Ottoman Empire (1535-1919). With the conquest of Iraq by Suleiman the Magnificent in 1534, followed by Sultan Murad IV's capture of Baghdad in 1638, a large influx of Turks - predominately from Anatolia - settled down in Iraq. Thus, most of today's Iraqi Turkmen are the descendants of the Ottoman soldiers, traders and civil servants who were brought into Iraq during the rule of the Ottoman Empire.[11][12][3][17] "


"During the subsequent Abbassid era, thousands more Turkmen warriors were brought into Iraq; however, the number of Turkmen who had settled in Iraq were not significant, as a result, the first wave of Turkmen became assimilated into the local Arab population.[18] "

[ButlerKing]

OK! Plus, why are interested in posting an article about Iraqi Turkmen when you're of British origin that's just weird or do you have a connection?

Because they look indistinguishable from the rest of the Levantine people or Iraqi, Syrians, Arabic speaking tribes. Their Y-DNA also don't look any different to them.

[Marmara]

Do you think Iraqi Turkmen are direct descendants of Turkmen or Turkish ??????

History[edit]


" the largest migration, during the Ottoman Empire (1535-1919). With the conquest of Iraq by Suleiman the Magnificent in 1534, followed by Sultan Murad IV's capture of Baghdad in 1638, a large influx of Turks - predominately from Anatolia - settled down in Iraq. Thus, most of today's Iraqi Turkmen are the descendants of the Ottoman soldiers, traders and civil servants who were brought into Iraq during the rule of the Ottoman Empire.[11][12][3][17] "


"During the subsequent Abbassid era, thousands more Turkmen warriors were brought into Iraq; however, the number of Turkmen who had settled in Iraq were not significant, as a result, the first wave of Turkmen became assimilated into the local Arab population.[18] "


Iraqi Turkmens speak Azerbaijani dialect. Syrian Turkmens speak Turkish dialect, don't mix two together.

[Marmara]

Syrian Turkmens are called Aleppo Turkmens, settled in Aleppo province during Seljuk era, Aleppo Turkmens extend to Southeastern Turkey (Southeastern Turkey was part of Aleppo province historically) and also live in there, i'm related to Aleppo Turkmens, my family speak the Turkmen dialect.

[ButlerKing]

Syrian Turkmens are called Aleppo Turkmens, settled in Aleppo province during Seljuk era, Aleppo Turkmens extend to Southeastern Turkey (Southeastern Turkey was part of Aleppo province historically) and also live in there, i'm related to Aleppo Turkmens, my family speak the Turkmen dialect.

I don't know about Syrian Turkmens but are Iraqi Turkmens genetically descended from Turks ? How does one know if they genetic descent from Turks ? Their Y-DNA doesn't seem any different from Arabic but maybe 1/5 of their Y-DNA are Turkish with a little bit of Turkmen and when speaking of Turk descendant they only mention Turk men, Turk soldiers, traders but no Turk women so I can't guessing their mtDNA would be Arabic.

[ButlerKing]

Y-DNA haplogroups of Turkmens

Recent studies on the Turkmens of Iran and Afghanistan suggest that haplogroup Q is the dominant Y-DNA in Turkmens. So far, there have been two detailed studies on the Y-DNA of Turkmens.

One piece of research (Cristofaro et al.,2013) found that the Turkmens in Afghanistan have 31.1% Q-M25 (Q1a2, in the 2017 ISOGG phylogeny) and 2.7% Q-M346 (Q total 25/74=33.8%), followed by R1a1a/R-M198 at 16.2%, also R1b 2.74%, R2 1.4%), J1c3 (J-Page8; 8.1%, also other various J-subclades at 9.5%), N1b/N-P43 (6.8%), G2a/G-P303 (4.1%), L1a/L-M76 (4.1%), and various subgroups of E1b1b 5.4%, O3 (KL2, M134) 2.7%, C(M401) 1.4%, H(M69*) 1.4%.[35]

Another study (Grugni et al.,2012) found that 42.6% (29/68) of Iranian Turkmens (in Golestan) have haplogroup Q-M25, followed by R1a1a/R-M198 (14.5%, also R1b 4.3%, R2 1.4%), J1c3/J-Page8 (5.8%, also other various J-subclades at 8.8%), G2a (5.8%), L3/L-M357 (5.8%), E1b1b (4.3%), NO (2.9%, xN, xO), H (1.4%), T (1.4%).[36] The above studies suggest that there is a strong possibility that the precursors of the Turkmen, such as the Oghuz, belonged to Q-M25.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/70/Haplogroup_Q_%28Y-DNA%29.PNG

[Marmara]

I don't know about Syrian Turkmens but are Iraqi Turkmens genetically descended from Turks ? How does one know if they genetic descent from Turks ? Their Y-DNA doesn't seem any different from Arabic but maybe 1/5 of their Y-DNA are Turkish with a little bit of Turkmen and when speaking of Turk descendant they only mention Turk men, Turk soldiers, traders but no Turk women so I can't guessing their mtDNA would be Arabic.

Iraqi Turkmens are not descended from Turkish people, that what i can say. I cannot understand their language. Logically genetically they must be closest to Azerbaijanis.

[ButlerKing]

Iraqi Turkmens are not descended from Turkish people, that what i can say. I cannot understand their language. Logically genetically they must be closest to Azerbaijanis.

But their most common Y-DNA is haplogroup E1b1b which is most common in many Afro-Asiatic speaking populations of North Africa and parts of Arabia where as Azeris most common haplogroup is J2

[LoLeL]

Seems J1 was common among some tribes:

According to a study conducted by L.A. Ferydoun Barjesteh van Waalwijk van Doorn and Sahar Khosrovani published in Qajar Studies, Journal of the International Qajar Studies Association, volume VII (2007), Qajar dynasty, the Iranian royal family who ruled over Persia from 1785 to 1925, belonged to haplogroup J1.
https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_J1_Y-DNA.shtml#famous_people

But I don't understand how and where they got their J1. e.g. one native man married a Turkic woman and their descendants became Qajars?!

[ButlerKing]

Seems J1 was common among some tribes:

https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_J1_Y-DNA.shtml#famous_people

But I don't understand how and where they got their J1. e.g. one native man married a Turkic woman and their descendants became Qajars?!


We don't even know if the haplogroup J1 belong from Central Asia or not, J1 does exist in 2.5 to 3.4% in Uzbeks, Kazakhs. Still a small possibility that it was a Turkic man with J1, never mind how Mongoloid he looked. Or Maybe the native man was already a Turkic with a J1 male great grandfather, or thousand years ago ancestor.

Even hitler was ironically haplogroup E1b1b but he considered Semetics, Arabs, North Africa and other non-Europeans as subhuman, inferior, trash. Haplogroup E1b1b is rare in west Europe especially from the place Austria/Germany where he was born around.

[StonyArabia]

That's not strange because the original inhabitants of Northern Iraq were the main Arabian tribes such as the Tayy, Banu Taghlib, and Banu Uqyal, and some of their clans were indeed Turkized, during the brutal Turko-Persian rule of Iraq. These tribes also inhabited Northern Iraq before the arrival of the Kurds from the Caucasus

[Kelmendasi]

We don't even know if the haplogroup J1 belong from Central Asia or not, J1 does exist in 2.5 to 3.4% in Uzbeks, Kazakhs. Still a small possibility that it was a Turkic man with J1, never mind how Mongoloid he looked. Or Maybe the native man was already a Turkic with a J1 male great grandfather, or thousand years ago ancestor.

Even hitler was ironically haplogroup E1b1b but he considered Semetics, Arabs, North Africa and other non-Europeans as subhuman, inferior, trash. Haplogroup E1b1b is rare in west Europe especially from the place Austria/Germany where he was born around.
J1 comes from from the Caucasus originally and was a CHG haplogroup, it then moved south during the Neolithic. E-V13 isn't that rare in west Europe and it's European in origin anyways but we don't know if Hitler himself was E-V13 or some other clade of E1b1b

[ButlerKing]

J1 comes from from the Caucasus originally and was a CHG haplogroup, it then moved south during the Neolithic. E-V13 isn't that rare in west Europe and it's European in origin anyways but we don't know if Hitler himself was E-V13 or some other clade of E1b1b

Haplogroup E is rare in west Europe most which are nearly non-existant so for Hitler to be haplogroup E is quite surprising for a German/Austrian like Hitler to have that haplogroup. Their main haplogroup is R1b later followed by haplogroup I.

Hitler is proven to be haplogroup E. Thing is haplogroups didn't matter because no one knew what haplogroup they belonged to back than and it becomes irrelevant after a few generations. Even Elvis Presley had mtDNA B.

[Kamal900]

J1 comes from from the Caucasus originally and was a CHG haplogroup, it then moved south during the Neolithic. E-V13 isn't that rare in west Europe and it's European in origin anyways but we don't know if Hitler himself was E-V13 or some other clade of E1b1b

Indeed. The J1 haplogroup was brought to Europe by the early neolithic farmers that is far more older than the J1e haplogroup that is currently found among Arabs and Jews which was brought to the Levant from either Iran or the Caucasus in the late neolithic period and mixed with the local Levantine population and becoming the early Semitic speakers who later migrated to Arabia and becoming Arabs and other Arabian ethnic groups.

[Kelmendasi]

Haplogroup E is rare in west Europe most which are nearly non-existant so for Hitler to be haplogroup E is quite surprising for a German/Austrian like Hitler to have that haplogroup. Their main haplogroup is R1b later followed by haplogroup I.

Hitler is proven to be haplogroup E. Thing is haplogroups didn't matter because no one knew what haplogroup they belong to and it becomes irrelevant after a few generations. Even Elvis Presley had mtDNA B.
It's not that rare in some places it's just not as common as the other haplogroups or just uncommon. In certain areas of west Europe E-V13 reaches 5-12% in frequency, Austria itself has around 8% iirc which isn't that rare or common when it comes to haplogroups. I know Hitler is proven E1b1b but the subclade isn't proven and subclades are what really matter. Haplogroups are actually pretty useful, they tell you the origin of your direct paternal or maternal ancestors.

[Pahli]

That's not strange because the original inhabitants of Northern Iraq were the main Arabian tribes such as the Tayy, Banu Taghlib, and Banu Uqyal, and some of their clans were indeed Turkized, during the brutal Turko-Persian rule of Iraq. These tribes also inhabited Northern Iraq before the arrival of the Kurds from the Caucasus

Lol, Assyrians were the original inhabitants of Northern Iraq that were Iranized and became Kurds, Arabs were mostly found around the Southern parts of Iraq and the desert, not in the North.

Y-DNA doesn't mean shit anyway, you have to look at autosomal DNA.

[Kamal900]

Lol, Assyrians were the original inhabitants of Northern Iraq that were Iranized and became Kurds, Arabs were mostly found around the Southern parts of Iraq and the desert, not in the North.

Y-DNA doesn't mean shit anyway, you have to look at autosomal DNA.

True. Y-DNA is useful in regards in learning migrations of peoples in the past like how Palestinians and other Levantine Arabs have high J1e which most of it is from the Arabian peninsula. Autosomal DNA changes over time, and it is useful in determining which groups of people a particular ethnic group is closely related to today. I mean, my mother's family belong to the J1e haplogroup, and yet, autosomally speaking, I cluster the closest to other Levantines than to Arabians which tells us that my ancient paternal ancestors were Arabs, and they mixed heavily with the local populace for many centuries. Kurds share very similar Y-DNA with other west asiatics, and they cluster very closely with peoples like Assyrians, Turks, Azeris, Persians and so on which tells us that Kurds are mostly natives in the middle east who were mixed and iranianized by the west Iranic tribes that entered the middle east in the 1st millennium BCE.

[ButlerKing]

It's not that rare in some places it's just not as common as the other haplogroups or just uncommon. In certain areas of west Europe E-V13 reaches 5-12% in frequency, Austria itself has around 8% iirc which isn't that rare or common when it comes to haplogroups. I know Hitler is proven E1b1b but the subclade isn't proven and subclades are what really matter. Haplogroups are actually pretty useful, they tell you the origin of your direct paternal or maternal ancestors.

The thing what people wants to know is where the haplogroup comes from. For example I'm going to assume that Hitler just happens to be a Austrian with haplogroup E, it's 8% so there's the chances of 8/100 of the Germans or did Hitler haplogroup E came from outside of Europe from thousand years ago ? even if it really comes from thousand years ago it's irrelevant.

Haplogroups are only useful to a certain extend. Especially in places like Central Asia where any haplogroup that comes from those regions are bound to be heavily contaminate by Mongoloid admixture. For example we have no idea if the Qajar dynasty with haplogroup J is Central Asian origin or a Caucasus/Arabian/Iran origin.

Haplogroup J is also 14% in Iran Turkmen. So god knows what it means for Qajar dynasty to have haplogroup J

http://s155239215.onlinehome.us/turkic/60_Genetics/WorldHaplogroupsMaps/TurkmenY_DNA_Iran.gif

R1a is rare in England but a British person who says his great-great grandfather was Indian and have R1a ( very high in northwest Indian ) it still means his great-great grandfather was Indian.

[Kelmendasi]

The thing what people wants to know is where the haplogroup comes from. For example I'm going to assume that Hitler just happens to be a Austrian with haplogroup E, it's 8% so there's the chances of 8/100 of the Germans or did Hitler haplogroup E came from outside of Europe from thousand years ago ? even if it really comes from thousand years ago it's irrelevant.

Haplogroups are only useful to a certain extend. Especially in places like Central Asia where any haplogroup that comes from those regions are bound to be heavily contaminate by Mongoloid admixture. For example we have no idea if the Qajar dynasty with haplogroup J is Central Asian origin or a Caucasus/Arabian/Iran origin.

Haplogroup J is also 14% in Iran Turkmen. So god knows what it means for Qajar dynasty to have haplogroup J

http://s155239215.onlinehome.us/turkic/60_Genetics/WorldHaplogroupsMaps/TurkmenY_DNA_Iran.gif

R1a is rare in England but a British person who says his great-great grandfather was Indian and have R1a ( very high in northwest Indian ) it still means his great-great grandfather was Indian.
Haplogroup E in Austria/Germany is E-V13 usually like in the rest of Europe and is from the Balkans originally and migrated with the Romans mainly into Central/western Europe. The Qajar dynasty probably belong to the J1 that comes from the Caucasus or Zagros in Iran, there isn't any "Central Asian" J1 afaik but the Turkmen who have it are most probably of Caucasian paternal origin. R1a in England is usually L664 which is Germanic.

[ButlerKing]

Haplogroup E in Austria/Germany is E-V13 usually like in the rest of Europe and is from the Balkans originally and migrated with the Romans mainly into Central/western Europe. The Qajar dynasty probably belong to the J1 that comes from the Caucasus or Zagros in Iran, there isn't any "Central Asian" J1 afaik but the Turkmen who have it are most probably of Caucasian paternal origin. R1a in England is usually L664 which is Germanic.

Haplogroup E is not the most common haplogroup in Austria/Germany, it's like the 5th most common only. It is not a west European marker so Hitler is not a typical German/Austrian in terms of paternal ancestry.

There is Central Asian with haplogroup J1 so there is a small possibility that J1 in Qajar is Central Asian origin. Or maybe it was contributed by Caucasus migrants/or Arab or Iranian settlers but it's irrelevant if it happened more than 500-1,000 years ago before the creation of Qajars.

Haplogroup mtDNA B is 0% in White Americans but yet it appears in Elvis Presley ( king of pops ). Quite surprising to me that king of pops had that unique DNA different from 99.9999% of white Americans.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/db/HG_J1_%28ADN-Y%29.PNG

[Kelmendasi]

Haplogroup E is not the most common haplogroup in Austria/Germany, it's like the 5th most common only. It is not a west European marker so Hitler is not a typical German/Austrian in terms of paternal ancestry.

There is Central Asian with haplogroup J1 so there is a small possibility that J1 in Qajar is Central Asian origin. Or maybe it was contributed by Caucasus migrants/or Arab or Iranian settlers but it's irrelevant if it happened more than 500-1,000 years ago before the creation of Qajars.

Haplogroup mtDNA B is 0% in White Americans but yet it appears in Elvis Presley ( king of pops ). Quite surprising to me that king of pops had that unique DNA different from 99.9999% of white Americans.

[im]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/db/HG_J1_%28ADN-Y%29.PNG[/img]
Never said that it's the most common. There isn't a J1 subclade specific to Central Asians so there isn't a "central Asian" J1, as I have said to you before subclade is what matters and not frequency. The Qajar J1 is most likely the one found in the Caucasus(Z1828) or the one found in northern Iran(M365.1) and probably not of Arabic origin(FGC12 or maybe even FGC11).

[ButlerKing]

Never said that it's the most common. There isn't a J1 subclade specific to Central Asians so there isn't a "central Asian" J1, as I have said to you before subclade is what matters and not frequency. The Qajar J1 is most likely the one found in the Caucasus(Z1828) or the one found in northern Iran(M365.1) and probably not of Arabic origin(FGC12 or maybe even FGC11).

I never said there was a J1 subclade specific to Central Asians. My point is the ruling Qajar dynasty could have been a Central Asian Turkic man with haplogroup J1 and not knowing he had any Caucasus male ancestor. Since central Asian Turks are so diverse genetically any haplogroup they have would make them Turkic in the end. Or let's say the Qajar founder was haplogroup J1 how do we know wether it's a Turkic man with haplogroup J1 from 1000 years ago or a Turkic man with a Caucasus paternal ancestry ? ( from as far as great-grandfather or great-great grandfather )

For example I do not consider any male R1b contributions form Chadic to be Caucasians even if R1b itself originated from West Europe/Middle east.

If the founder of African kingdom was descendant of a Chadic male it's still a Black African with R1b.

https://legacy.joshuaproject.net/profiles/photos/p15210.jpg