Where did the Slavic DNA in Greeks originate?

[Sikeliot]

Not saying all Greeks have it or that it is a majority of their DNA, but the Slavs who ended up in Greece, before they came through the Balkans, where did they originate? Poland? Ukraine? Belarus? Russia?

It is clear from many mainland Greek DNA results that some level of Slavic DNA has been assimilated. So where did this wave of migration begin?

[Tauromachos]

???

[dperucca]

Could be a mix of all the above. I have read narratives/theories comparing Greco/Roman Gods with pagan Slavic gods. They crossed paths at one moment or another. http://www.ancientpages.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/parcaegoddesroman11.jpg

[JQP4545]

I believe all the Slavs that ended up in the Balkans came from the area north of the Carpathian Mountains (Southern Poland and Western Ukraine).

[Tauromachos]

Could be a mix of all the above. I have read narratives/theories comparing Greco/Roman Gods with pagan Slavic gods. They crossed paths at one moment or another. http://www.ancientpages.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/parcaegoddesroman11.jpg

The thing is what exactly is to be considered Slavic DNA or exclusively Slavic?

This is a scientific problem of its own

Some DNA which is related to Slavic people may have entered Ancient Greece by mixing with Scythians?

But real Slavs entered Greece since the Middle Ages not before that.

[catgeorge]

Not saying all Greeks have it or that it is a majority of their DNA, but the Slavs who ended up in Greece, before they came through the Balkans, where did they originate? Poland? Ukraine? Belarus? Russia?

It is clear from many mainland Greek DNA results that some level of Slavic DNA has been assimilated. So where did this wave of migration begin?

The migration process came hand in hand with an assimilation process of the Thessalian Neolithic culture people that inhabited the area pre migration.
Pre Slavic migrations these people faced invasions from Cuman-Tatar-Avars which has left a genetic footprint in the Balkans.

The great migrations of the era was due to the destruction the Huns caused

Slavs were involved in the second great migrations and were a mixture of Scythians, Sarmatians, and Alans that assimilated and mixed with the mongrelized thessalian Neolithic population by the Cuman-Tatar-Avars.

[Tauromachos]

Slavs were a mixture of Scythians, Sarmatians, and Alans

Probably

[Tauromachos]

Pre Slavic migrations these people faced invasions from Cuman-Tatar-Avars which has left a genetic footprint in the Balkans.


All these people you name here were known by the Ancients under the collective term Scythians.

Their customs,appearance and relations with Greeks and Greece are well documented in the accounts of ancient authors.

Everything else is speculation in my view

[dperucca]

The migration process came hand in hand with an assimilation process of the Thessalian Neolithic culture people that inhabited the area pre migration.
Pre Slavic migrations these people faced invasions from Cuman-Tatar-Avars which has left a genetic footprint in the Balkans.

The great migrations of the era was due to the destruction the Huns caused

Slavs were involved in the second great migrations and were a mixture of Scythians, Sarmatians, and Alans that assimilated and mixed with the mongrelized thessalian Neolithic population by the Cuman-Tatar-Avars.

I could see Medea being a Sarmatian.

[catgeorge]

All these people you name here were known by the Ancients under the collective term Scythians.

Their customs,appearance and relations with Greeks and Greece are well documented in the accounts of ancient authors.

Everything else is speculation in my view

It is speculation in your head acting as the big scholar that has never read Strategikon nor De Administrando Imperio. Or just had an urge to make a comment to look intelligent?

[catgeorge]

I could see Medea being a Sarmatian.

They were known as "White" Croatia and "White" Serbia differentiating them from local mongrelized populations caused by Asiatics.

[MercifulServant]

From Invading slavs

[MercifulServant]

The migration process came hand in hand with an assimilation process of the Thessalian Neolithic culture people that inhabited the area pre migration.
Pre Slavic migrations these people faced invasions from Cuman-Tatar-Avars which has left a genetic footprint in the Balkans.

The great migrations of the era was due to the destruction the Huns caused

Slavs were involved in the second great migrations and were a mixture of Scythians, Sarmatians, and Alans that assimilated and mixed with the mongrelized thessalian Neolithic population by the Cuman-Tatar-Avars.

Wtf are you talking about cumans left no genetic footprint in the balkans

[catgeorge]

From Invading slavs

That's how Constantine VII described them (he was blue eyed BTW) - Byzantines were having all sorts of issues with Cuman-Tatars in Balkans causing havoc being allies with Arabs, Khazars and whatnot then.

The came the baptisim of Kievan Rus

[Tauromachos]

From Invading slavs

There was not such thing as a real Slavic invasion in Greece

Sorry to burst the bubble

[catgeorge]

Wtf are you talking about cumans left no genetic footprint in the balkans

I beg to differ

[MercifulServant]

I beg to differ

There is almost no mongoloid dna in the balkans

[catgeorge]

There is almost no mongoloid dna in the balkans

Disagree - strongly.

[MercifulServant]

There was not such thing as a real Slavic invasion in Greece

Sorry to burst the bubble

Greeks don't have a lot of slav in them anyways

[Tauromachos]

They were known as "White" Croatia and "White" Serbia differentiating them from local mongrelized populations caused by Asiatics.

Hahaha lol

[Freeroostah]

There is almost no mongoloid dna in the balkans

Romanians have some, around 2%-3% East Asian on 23andme.

[MercifulServant]

Disagree - strongly.

give me proof that there is high east Eurasian or stop Bullshitting

[MercifulServant]

Romanians have some, around 2%-3% East Asian on 23andme.

okay? 2% is nothing.

[catgeorge]

Hahaha lol

That's all you can do - but start reading DAI and the chapters

..and of the Croats
...and of the Serbs

So you can learn something for the day. I am your educator as someone has to

[Freeroostah]

Greeks don't have a lot of slav in them anyways

No we dont but we probably have some DNA from Balkan people who found refuge in the Empire from Slavic and Avar raiders

Some people here cannot distinguish native Balkan people from Slavic. How ignorant..

[Tauromachos]

Greeks don't have a lot of slav in them anyways

Yes but even if they would ..my point was more that Slavs didn't realy invade Greece

The early Slavs in South East Europe were warlike but disorganized tribes not capable of taking over and controlling a whole culture
they had some fights and scuffles with the Byzantines who alos fought back and defeated them not in a less brutal way and after
they started making deals with the Byzantines and alos got permission to settle in different areas of the Empire and own land which
they could cultivate

[MercifulServant]

No we dont but we probably have some DNA from Balkan people who found refuge in the Empire from Slavic and Avar raiders

Some people here cannot distinguish native Balkan people from Slavic. How ignorant..

Am I Slavic or Native Balkan to you then? I score more Balkan then northern components how do you determine a native Balkan person from Slavic? According to greeks on this forum fyromski are Slavic genetically

[Freeroostah]

okay? 2% is nothing.

It becomes significant if you put it on GEDmatch ;)

Im not saying that to offend Romanians, Turkic people were Alphas around this Era

[MercifulServant]

In reality many south slavs are slavisized we are more Illyrian/Thracian then Slavic

[Dick]

Hahaha lol

I dont find it funny.

[Dick]

In reality many south slavs are slavisized we are more Illyrian/Thracian then Slavic

We are half and half. Stop this nonsense caused by Bosniensis.

[MercifulServant]

We are half and half. Stop this nonsense caused by Bosniensis.

more Balkan tbh atleast I am and Serbs from Serbia, You are more slav then me though

[Freeroostah]

Am I Slavic or Native Balkan to you then? I score more Balkan then northern components how do you determine a native Balkan person from Slavic? According to greeks on this forum fyromski are Slavic genetically

Native Balkan who got assimilated to Slavic society. On AncestryDNA you probably score around 45% Italy/Greece and rest is East European (Im giving you 5% Caucasus for the lulz)
Most of the Fyromskis are native Paeonians who got Slavisized. Of course there are many who plot with other Northern Greeks

[Dick]

more Balkan tbh atleast I am and Serbs from Serbia, You are more slav then me though

No you are not, you even come out as half Polish and Greek.

[catgeorge]

give me proof that there is high east Eurasian or stop Bullshitting

I did not want to do it but left me with no choice

http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/file/show/Ljubco%20Georgievski%20stara.jpg

http://meta.mk/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Nikola-Gruevski.png

http://images6.fanpop.com/image/photos/32700000/Tose-tose-proeski-32743011-500-500.jpg

http://assets.lfcimages.com/uploads/players/2425__6897__lazar_markovic_strait.jpg

https://www.thisisanfield.com/wp-content/uploads/171101-146-Liverpool_Maribor-e1511733237299.jpg

[Dick]

That's all you can do - but start reading DAI and the chapters

..and of the Croats
...and of the Serbs

So you can learn something for the day. I am your educator as someone has to

Go fuck yourself.

[MercifulServant]

No you are not, you even come out as half Polish and Greek.

It was Greek Central which is more southern then Illyrian balkanites

[MercifulServant]

Native Balkan who got assimilated to Slavic society. On AncestryDNA you probably score around 45% Italy/Greece and rest is East European (Im giving you 5% Caucasus for the lulz)
Most of the Fyromskis are native Paeonians who got Slavisized. Of course there are many who plot with other Northern Greeks

Even albos get like 20% East Euro on ancestry

[MercifulServant]

I did not want to do it but left me with no choice

http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/file/show/Ljubco%20Georgievski%20stara.jpg

http://meta.mk/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Nikola-Gruevski.png

http://images6.fanpop.com/image/photos/32700000/Tose-tose-proeski-32743011-500-500.jpg

http://assets.lfcimages.com/uploads/players/2425__6897__lazar_markovic_strait.jpg

https://www.thisisanfield.com/wp-content/uploads/171101-146-Liverpool_Maribor-e1511733237299.jpg

Doesn't prove anything, show me DNA results

[catgeorge]

Doesn't prove anything, show my DNA results

Don't take offence - bottom line is the cuman-tatars did indeed leave a genetic footprint.

[MercifulServant]

Don't take offence - bottom line is the cuman-tatars did indeed leave a genetic footprint.

Show genetic results or fuck off. A few phenotypes don't prove anything

[Freeroostah]

Even albos get like 20% East Euro on ancestry

Yes but they also get 80% Italy/Greece :)

They are very homogeneous

[Sikeliot]

Ok people need to answer the question.

Of the Slavic ancestry that actually exists in Greece, whether 1% or 20%, where did the migration start from?

[catgeorge]

Show genetic results or fuck off. A few phenotypes don't prove anything

This is enough for me to call them tatar-mongols.. don't take offence - they were definitely in the Balkans fighting Byzantines before Slavs migrated

[MercifulServant]

Yes but they also get 80% Italy/Greece :)

They are very homogeneous

I get 54% East Europe, 32% South Europe, 10% West Europe and 2% European Jew, 1% Middle East and less than 1 percent caucasus

[jingorex]

Don't take offence - bottom line is the cuman-tatars did indeed leave a genetic footprint.

actually a really good series of lectures about that here: https://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/the-barbarian-empires-of-the-steppes.html

you can get on torrentz for free btw.

[MercifulServant]

Ok people need to answer the question.

Of the Slavic ancestry that actually exists in Greece, whether 1% or 20%, where did the migration start from?

Possibly from slavs who invaded in the Balkans and somehow intermixed with greeks I am really unsure to be honest

[Mingle]

Ok people need to answer the question.

Of the Slavic ancestry that actually exists in Greece, whether 1% or 20%, where did the migration start from?

When a mass migration of Slavs from Central Europe to the Balkans started, many of those Slavs went as far south as Greece. That's where it comes from.

[Freeroostah]

Ok people need to answer the question.

Of the Slavic ancestry that actually exists in Greece, whether 1% or 20%, where did the migration start from?

The main bulk of Slavic people who settled in Greece were Sclavenians. I think they originate from Central Europe (Czech Republic, Hungary) and were brought by the Avars. Their modern descendants are mainly Yugos.

Bulgarians on the other hand are Antes who came from the Carpathians as well as the Old Bulgarians whose origins could be Iranian or Turkic.

[Sikeliot]

The main bulk of Slavic people who settled in Greece were Sclavenians. I think they originate from Central Europe (Czech Republic, Hungary) and were brought by the Avars. Their modern descendants are mainly Yugos.

Bulgarians on the other hand are Antes who came from the Carpathians as well as the Old Bulgarians whose origins could be Iranian or Turkic.

So you are saying whatever Slavic ancestry does exist in Greeks is more related to Poles, Czechs, and the western Balkans rather than to Russians, Ukrainians, or Bulgarians?

[Tauromachos]

@all

Don't forget to vote and discuss in this thread
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?235475-Does-Greek-chef-Akis-Pretzerikis-look-more-Iberian-or-Balto-Slavic

[catgeorge]

Possibly from slavs who invaded in the Balkans and somehow intermixed with greeks I am really unsure to be honest

Slavs did not invade the Balkans - this is mythology.

The migration was allowed by Maurice to counteract Asiatic influences that was warring with Byzantines. The populations culture prior to the migration was Thessalian Neolithic so obviously Greek DNA was present

[Jana]

Slavs did not invade the Balkans - this is mythology.

The migration was allowed by Maurice to counteract Asiatic influences that was warring with Byzantines. The populations culture prior to the migration was Thessalian Neolithic so obviously Greek DNA was present

Sure, that is why they beseiged Constantinopole allied with Avars ... if that wasn't invasion, nothing is

[Jana]

I believe all the Slavs that ended up in the Balkans came from the area north of the Carpathian Mountains (Southern Poland and Western Ukraine).

Nope. That's specifically where Croats come from, not other slavs like Sclavenians that invaded eastern Roman Empire before them.

They could have come from anywhere in eastern Europe, nobody know where from exactly.

[Jana]

Serbs don't come from the Carpathians for example. They come from east Germany and Bohemia.

And seven slavic tribes that settled in Bulgaria probably come from somwhere in Ukraine....slavs that ended up in Greece come from north of the Danube, they are same thing as Slavs that ended up in Thracia, not related with White Croats or White Serbs

[Lavrentis]

Assimilated Bulgarians and Slavic-Macedonians/FYROMians from the 18-19-20th centuries.

The Middle Ages Slavic invaders of Greece didn’t leave much trails, since they were killed and expelled by the Byzantines.

In short, I think that the Slavic DNA in Greece is more “recent” rather than from the Middle Ages.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Popeye]

There were different waves of Slavic migrations. Some probably came from Ukraine, Slovakia area or close to Hungary but the 2nd wave of the proto Serbs and proto Croats probably came from Western Poland.

I also think Slavic influence in Greece is exaggerated, Macedonia probably has the highest Slavic influence out of all areas.

[Jana]

Indeed several waves of Slavs (at least two) settled south-east of Europe. Croats conquered and assimilated previous layer of Avaro-Slavs that dwelt in Dalmatia , according to DAI.
Slavs that invaded part of modern Greece come from first vawe. But important thing to add is that first vawe slavs didn't settle at first, they were mostly going to loot and rob. Settlement happened later, gradually.

[Bosniensis]

Serbs were the first people to inhabit Europe then others came and took Serbian land, its logical that all nations have some Serbian dna


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Popeye]

Serbs were the first people to inhabit Europe then others came and took Serbian land, its logical that all nations have some Serbian dna


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think you need to stop doing drugs.

[Bosniensis]

I think you need to stop doing drugs.

I2 haplogroup emerged in Serbia many thousands years ago and those people are still there.

Drugs on you irregular


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JQP4545]

I2 haplogroup emerged in Serbia many thousands years ago and those people are still there.

Drugs on you irregular


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What are your sources? I believe the evidence is stronger that it came to the Balkans with the Slavs during the migration period. The oldest I2a1b Dinaric samples that have been discovered are from Poland and Russia dated to the Middle Ages (900-1100 CE). In none of the studies on DNA from the ancient Balkans has Dinaric been found. It is also estimated to have a relatively young age (less than 2000 years old) based on Kenneth Nordvedt's calculations.

[Jana]

What are your sources? I believe the evidence is stronger that it came to the Balkans with the Slavs during the migration period. The oldest I2a1b Dinaric samples that have been discovered are from Poland and Russia dated to the Middle Ages (900-1100 CE). In none of the studies on DNA from the ancient Balkans has Dinaric been found. It is also estimated to have a relatively young age (less than 2000 years old) based on Kenneth Nordvedt's calculations.

He has no sources, he is local clown of the forum. :)

[Bosniensis]

What are your sources? I believe the evidence is stronger that it came to the Balkans with the Slavs during the migration period. The oldest I2a1b Dinaric samples that have been discovered are from Poland and Russia dated to the Middle Ages (900-1100 CE). In none of the studies on DNA from the ancient Balkans has Dinaric been found. It is also estimated to have a relatively young age (less than 2000 years old) based on Kenneth Nordvedt's calculations.

Don't listen those Yugocommunists, they are brainwashed by communists, they want to be slavs... just ignore them...

https://lundiak.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/i_haplogroup_migration_map.png

[Jana]

Don't listen those Yugocommunists, they are brainwashed by communists, they want to be slavs... just ignore them...

https://lundiak.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/i_haplogroup_migration_map.png

It proves nothing which you're blabbing about. Seriously, you should be banned for bringing forum IQ down !

[Bosniensis]

It proves nothing which you're blabbing about. Seriously, you should be banned for bringing forum IQ down !

Watch your tone lady, I haven't drawn those maps myself... they are official FTDNA, 23andMe reference... I don't care about your education mine is superior.. bye.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Watch your tone lady, I haven't drawn those maps myself... they are official FTDNA, 23andMe reference... I don't care about your education mine is superior.. bye.

Now... for some days.. Bosniensis will opet a threads about Serbo-Nimrod, and Serbo Makeridov (Aleksandar Karanović-Alexandar Makedonski) as Serbs.

[Bosniensis]

Now... for some days.. Bosniensis will opet a threads about Serbo-Nimrod, and Serbo Makeridov (Aleksandar Karanović-Alexandar Makedonski) as Serbs.

why not :noidea: that subject is neglected .

[Vlatko Vukovic]

those people are still there.

With an identity of R1a :)

[Bosniensis]

With an identity of R1a :)

yes thats slavic one... but you can't have both I2 and R1a slavic, they both originate from completely different places, different era-s everything.

One is indo-european second one isn't. So how can both of them be Slavic? they can't. One is Slavicized and that's I2 because I2 came through Greece and Anatolia, while R1a came from Indo-Europe, Ural previously.

[Jana]

Watch your tone lady, I haven't drawn those maps myself... they are official FTDNA, 23andMe reference... I don't care about your education mine is superior.. bye.

and ?

[Vlatko Vukovic]

yes thats slavic one... but you can't have both I2 and R1a slavic, they both originate from completely different places, different era-s everything.

One is indo-european second one isn't. So how can both of them be Slavic? they can't. One is Slavicized and that's I2 because I2 came through Greece and Anatolia, while R1a came from Indo-Europe, Ural previously.

First you have to understand properly the term "Slavic", as a ethno-linguistic term which is mainly based on Indo-European bassinet (in this case R1a), but also which is opened to accept some I2a characteristics. I2a properly understand R1a since about 3rd century BC in Eastern Europe.

[Insuperable]

The first thing that comes up in Sikeliot's mind waking up every day
https://s18.postimg.org/umnqku7s9/ezgif-3-d488782c65.gif

[Vlatko Vukovic]

yes thats slavic one... but you can't have both I2 and R1a slavic, they both originate from completely different places, different era-s everything.

One is indo-european second one isn't. So how can both of them be Slavic? they can't. One is Slavicized and that's I2 because I2 came through Greece and Anatolia, while R1a came from Indo-Europe, Ural previously.

I really support you in your ideology if you can learn I2 language.

[Bosniensis]

I really support you in your ideology if you can learn I2 language.

We speak slavic languages, OUR language of (I2) people got extinct very long ago.. then there was Latinization, then Slavenization etc...

We are Slavs (Linguistically) but that's worth as much as if I learned Chinese and told myself "I am Chinese".

I2 is Native to Balkans and many European territories before R1 arrival.

We can say that Thracians were I2, Celts were I2 (it's all documented) and they spoke Latin language before they got Conquered by Germanic & Slavic peoples.

[Jana]

We speak slavic languages, OUR language of (I2) people got extinct very long ago.. then there was Latinization, then Slavenization etc...

We are Slavs (Linguistically) but that's worth as much as if I learned Chinese and told myself "I am Chinese".

I2 is Native to Balkans and many European territories before R1 arrival.

We can say that Thracians were I2, Celts were I2 (it's all documented) and they spoke Latin language before they got Conquered by Germanic & Slavic peoples.

Thracians eare not I2, neither were Celts.

E1b1 was found among Thracians, as was R1a Z93 in bronze age Bulgaria.

Why do you like to lie so much ? :puke:

[Bosniensis]

Thracians eare not I2, neither were Celts.

E1b1 was found among Thracians, as was R1a Z93 in bronze age Bulgaria.

Why do you like to lie so much ? :puke:

I2 in Europe before Germanic people Conquered it.

https://i.imgur.com/MivHN52.jpg

[Jana]

I2 in Europe before Germanic people Conquered it.

https://i.imgur.com/MivHN52.jpg

Give me source for that map. I can make one myself...

[Bosniensis]

Give me source for that map. I can make one myself...

Made by Expert Geneticist Sandra Rimmer

http://www.abroadintheyard.com/maps-of-europes-ancient-tribes-kingdoms-and-y-dna/

[Jana]

Made by Expert Geneticist Sandra Rimmer

http://www.abroadintheyard.com/maps-of-europes-ancient-tribes-kingdoms-and-y-dna/

It's not completely accurate. I1 was never found in anceint Scandinavia, oldest sample is from neolithic Hungary.

Moreover, oldest sample of I2 ''dinaric'' is from mesolithic Sweden.

[Leto]

I think Slavic admixture in Greece is not significant. Even Bulgarians themselves are probably more Thracian than Slavic by ancestry (of course nowadays Slavic is primarily a linguistic term), so Greeks must have even less.

[nightrider+]

Poland through Western Balkans in medieval times, Bulgaria in more recent (Ottoman) times.

[Jana]

I think Slavic admixture in Greece is not significant. Even Bulgarians themselves are probably more Thracian than Slavic by ancestry (of course nowadays Slavic is primarily a linguistic term), so Greeks must have even less.

That's true.

[Bosniensis]

It's not completely accurate. I1 was never found in anceint Scandinavia, oldest sample is from neolithic Hungary.

Moreover, oldest sample of I2 ''dinaric'' is from mesolithic Sweden.

Now you are expert geneticist, awesome.

Truth is.. you will say/accept anything to satisify your claims, which are false.

[Jana]

Now you are expert geneticist, awesome.

Truth is.. you will say/accept anything to satisify your claims, which are false.

I have scientifc articles to prove my claims, unlike you.

[Kelmendasi]

I have scientifc articles to prove my claims, unlike you.
He's trolling you lol

[Bosniensis]

He's trolling you lol

;) Where are you my friend :)

You appear only to destroy my march of dominance xD

I admit I was posting half-truths, but let's imagine they are true for a second.

[Dibran]

Even albos get like 20% East Euro on ancestry

You shouldn't take it to mean Slavic. It is a component. Just like Italian on K36 is not actually Italian, so to, East Europe is a Steppe type component perhaps. If a Mycenean autosomal profile was run through AncestryDNA, their steppe would most probably come up as East Europe. Also, ancestry there is not determined by autosomal genetics but consistency of matches. If 20 percent of autosomal matches are East European, it will say you're 20 percent East European. Its not an exact science, especially since their algorithm is not exactly reliable.

[MercifulServant]

You shouldn't take it to mean Slavic. It is a component. Just like Italian on K36 is not actually Italian, so to, East Europe is a Steppe type component perhaps. If a Mycenean autosomal profile was run through AncestryDNA, their steppe would most probably come up as East Europe. Also, ancestry there is not determined by autosomal genetics but consistency of matches. If 20 percent of autosomal matches are East European, it will say you're 20 percent East European. Its not an exact science, especially since their algorithm is not exactly reliable.

I never said it was Slavic

[MercifulServant]

I think Slavic admixture in Greece is not significant. Even Bulgarians themselves are probably more Thracian than Slavic by ancestry (of course nowadays Slavic is primarily a linguistic term), so Greeks must have even less.

Most south slavs are slavisized if you think about it with exceptions of Croats and slovenians

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Most south slavs are slavisized if you think about it with exceptions of Croats and slovenians

Most East Slavs are Slavicized Balts, but what the purpose is?

[MercifulServant]

Most East Slavs are Slavicized Balts, but what the purpose is?

Nope they aren't

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Nope they aren't

picture error, and yes they're.

Balts were great population even to the Moscow, at least by the Baltic toponyms and hydronyms which are Baltic, and obviously older than Slavic ones.

[Jana]

Northern Russians are least genetically slavic out of all slavic speaking groups.
https://i.imgur.com/mRpfIqS.png

[kleenex]

I'm not sure. We need DNA from early middle age (6th-7th c) Greeks to know for sure if there was genetic assimilation. My guess is that there may have been Slavic villages in Greece (settlements) but very little admixture. Based on early invasions and migrations I would say Bulgars and Serbs.

[Peterski]

Probably

This is what I get in Global25 when I model myself as a mix of ancient populations:

http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2018/02/unleash-power-global-25-test-drive.html

https://eurogenes.blogspot.com.au/2018/02/modeling-genetic-ancestry-with-davidski.html

"distance%=1.1709 / distance=0.011709"

Baltic_BA 38.85
England_Anglo-Saxon 20.50
Minoan_Lasithi 12.65
Srubnaya_outlier 9.70
Vinca_MN 7.80
Scythian_AldyBel 5.25
Sintashta 5.25
Alberstedt_LN 0.00
Altai_IA 0.00
Anatolia_BA 0.00
Anatolia_ChL 0.00
Armenia_ChL 0.00
Armenia_EBA 0.00
Armenia_MLBA 0.00
Baden_LCA 0.00
Balaton_Lasinja_CA 0.00
Baltic_HG 0.00
Battle_Axe_Sweden 0.00
Bell_Beaker_Germany 0.00
BenzigerodeHeimburg_LN 0.00
CWC_Germany 0.00
EHG 0.00
England_IA 0.00
England_Roman 0.00
England_Roman_outlier 0.00
Halberstadt_LBA 0.00
Hungary_BA 0.00
Hungary_IA 0.00
Iberia_BA 0.00
Iberia_ChL 0.00
Iberia_EN 0.00
Iberia_MN 0.00
Iran_ChL 0.00
Iran_IA 0.00
Ireland_EBA 0.00
Ireland_MN 0.00
Karasuk 0.00
Karasuk_outlier 0.00
Levant_BA 0.00
Mezhovskaya 0.00
Mycenaean 0.00
Narva_Estonia 0.00
Narva_Lithuania 0.00
Nordic_IA 0.00
Nordic_LN 0.00
Portugal_LNCA 0.00
Portugal_MBA 0.00
Portugal_MN 0.00
Protoboleraz_LCA 0.00
Remedello_BA 0.00
Samara_Eneolithic 0.00
Sarmatian_Pokrovka 0.00
Scythian_Pazyryk 0.00
Scythian_Samara 0.00
Scythian_ZevakinoChilikta 0.00
SHG 0.00
Spain_LNCA 0.00
Srubnaya 0.00
Tiszapolgar_ECA 0.00
Unetice 0.00
^^^
Full list of ancient populations that were used in that run is inside of the Spoiler.

======================

And with modern populations in single item distances, I get the following:

[1] "1. CLOSEST SINGLE ITEM DISTANCES"
Czech Hungarian Slovakian Ukrainian
0.01341786 0.01468472 0.01482861 0.01514171
Croatian Polish German Russian_Kostroma
0.01555347 0.01561174 0.01746808 0.01751163

^^^
But that's because Polish reference samples are from Mazovia (NE Poland).

Mazovians are way more shifted to Balts. They would get more Baltic_BA.

[Jana]

According to the De Administrando Imperio, one group of Serbs settled in province of Thessalonica after their migration from the north.


But when two brothers succeeded their father in the rule of Serbia, one of them, taking one half of the folk, claimed the protection of Heraclius, the emperor of the Romans, and the same emperor Heraclius received him and gave him a place in the province of Thessalonica to settle in, namely Serbia, which from that time has acquired this denomination

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Northern Russians are least genetically slavic out of all slavic speaking groups.
https://i.imgur.com/mRpfIqS.png

A lot of East Slavs, in general are assimilated Balts. Even in the 20th century there was Baltic-speaking people in Western Belarus, now all of them are speaking Belarussian. I am beginning to suspect that M458 are the Slavo-bringers to East Europe mainly.

[Papastratosels26]

Probably from slavic invasions in 6-8 AD some slavs full assimilated some partly

[brennus dux gallorum]

From central Europe, Slovakia, Poland etc

For that reason there are no slavo-uralic looking Greeks

[Jana]

A lot of East Slavs, in general are assimilated Balts. Even in the 20th century there was Baltic-speaking people in Western Belarus, now all of them are speaking Belarussian. I am beginning to suspect that M458 are the Slavo-bringers to East Europe mainly.

It's not the case here. As you can see, north Russians aren't even related with Balts, Latvians and Lithuanians are closer to Poles and Belarusians, than to north Russians. Slavs and Balts come from same root anyway.

North Russians seem to be full blown Finnic.

[Jana]

From central Europe, Slovakia, Poland etc

For that reason there are no slavo-uralic looking Greeks

LOL

No Slav was Uralid looking. They aquired such looks after colonizing what is modern-day Russia. In time of great migration, all Slavs looked similar.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

North Russians seem to be full blown Finnic.

Russia is full of various influences, from Baltic through Finnic until ancient Scythian and Sarmatian.


Slavs and Balts come from same root anyway.

In which sense you mean? Balto-Slavic language maybe never existed. Linguists are still arguing about this. This community was never confirmed.

[Jana]

Russia is full of various influences, from Baltic through Finnic until ancient Scythian and Sarmatian.

In which sense you mean? Balto-Slavic language maybe never existed. Linguists are still arguing about this. This community was never confirmed.

I know, but I believe it did. Therefore they should have shared similar ancestry, before they split. Baltic people aren't terribly different than some Slavs, look at Lithuanians, they are close to northern Belarusians and north-eastern Poles.

But Finnic people aren't similar to Slavs at all. It is Finnic ancestry of northern Russians that makes they so far away from both slavs and balts. Other Russians are much more slavic, especially in west and south.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

I know, but I believe it did. Therefore they should have shared similar ancestry, before they split. Baltic people aren't terribly different than some Slavs, look at Lithuanians, they are close to northern Belarusians and north-eastern Poles.

But Finnic people aren't similar to Slavs at all. It is Finnic ancestry of northern Russians that makes they so far away from both slavs and balts. Other Russians are much more slavic, especially in west and south.

"split". Theory of splitting is also very questionable. Toporov and Ivanov (2 Russian linguists) claimed that proto-Slavic is just the peripheral Baltic dialect, which get under some influence of the some another language. Since Baltic languages are indeed pretty much more archaic then it is Slavic, also Slavs emerged from already formed Baltic cultures... But those are hypotheses of Toporov and Ivanov. Some Lithuanian linguists claims that Baltic and Slavic were always separated languages. We don't have the definitive hypothesis.

Also it is needed to be said that proto-Slavic have about 30 iranian loanwords while it is not the case with Baltic languages.

[Jana]

"split". Theory of splitting is also very questionable. Toporov and Ivanov (2 Russian linguists) claimed that proto-Slavic is just the peripheral Baltic dialect, which get under some influence of the some another language. Since Baltic languages are indeed pretty much more archaic then it is Slavic, also Slavs emerged from already formed Baltic cultures... But those are hypotheses of Toporov and Ivanov. Some Lithuanian linguists claims that Baltic and Slavic were always separated languages. We don't have the definitive hypothesis.

Also it is needed to be said that proto-Slavic have about 30 iranian loanwords while it is not the case with Baltic languages.

Yes, it is possible, nice post :thumb001:

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Now, about the thread. The picture is here:

https://www.slavorum.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/27394476_1831050333581093_136493114_n.jpg

[Vlatko Vukovic]

In reality many south slavs are slavisized we are more Illyrian/Thracian then Slavic

It depends from where I2a came on Balkan. But Illyrian? Thracians? No. Bosniensis is, but South Slavs in general no.

[MercifulServant]

It depends from where I2a came on Balkan. But Illyrian? Thracians? No. Bosniensis is, but South Slavs in general no.

South slavs in general are a mix but more Illyrian/Thracian natives overall I don't like admitting that but it's the truth

[Vlatko Vukovic]

South slavs in general are a mix but more Illyrian/Thracian natives overall I don't like admitting that but it's the truth

based on what?

[Vlatko Vukovic]

More logically is that you said that South Slavs are slavicized Celto-Germanics. It's more accurate from this illyro-thracian statement.

[Bakk]

It's not the case here. As you can see, north Russians aren't even related with Balts, Latvians and Lithuanians are closer to Poles and Belarusians, than to north Russians. Slavs and Balts come from same root anyway.

Norths Russians seem to be full blown Finnic.

North Russian are slavized Finno-Ugric.
Vladimir Putin probably has Karelian origin, he is from Tver oblast and in middle age a lot of Karelians settled in that region.
Putin look Finno-Ugric, not Slavic.

[MercifulServant]

based on what?

Autosomal DNA testing

[Bakk]

Autosomal DNA testing

Why you use Slavic motive at your avatar if you are native?

[MercifulServant]

Why you use Slavic motive at your avatar if you are native?

I'm a mix but more proud of slav ancestry even though I am more native unfortunately

[Peterski]

North Russian are slavized Finno-Ugric.
Vladimir Putin probably has Karelian origin, he is from Tver oblast and in middle age a lot of Karelians settled in that region.
Putin look Finno-Ugric, not Slavic.

Tver is not so super Finno-Ugric, less than for example Kostroma, Solvychegodsk, Perm and Kirov:

https://i.imgur.com/MWaAjAL.png

[Bakk]

I'm a mix but more proud of slav ancestry even though I am more native unfortunately

Your haplogroup is maybe native, but maybe came with Slavs.
Because G2a exist in all Europe, exist even among Poles and Russians.

[Peterski]

Karelians from Tver region are concentrated mainly in Likhoslavl:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Likhoslavl

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karelian_National_Okrug

[Bakk]

Karelians from Tver region are concentrated mainly in Likhoslavl:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Likhoslavl

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karelian_National_Okrug

Putin has heavy Finno-Ugric admixture without doubt, he look Finnish or Karelian.
His haplogroup is probably N1c.

[Peterski]

Putin has heavy Finno-Ugric admixture without doubt, he look Finnish or Karelian.
His haplogroup is probably N1c.

Very often genotype =/= phenotype.

Find Putin's kit number on GEDmatch and I will believe you, but not before that.

[MercifulServant]

Your haplogroup is maybe native, but maybe came with Slavs.
Because G2a exist in all Europe, exist even among Poles and Russians.

What branch do they have? L497?

[Bakk]

What branch do they have? L497?

L497 exist in Poland and Russia in small percentage https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_G2a_Y-DNA.shtml#subclades