is I2a-Din Slavic?

[Dick]

Discuss.

[MercifulServant]

Yes of course

[Bobby Martnen]

Slavic is R1a (aka, R1ETHELITES)

I1 is the only real Germanic haplogroup. I'm not sure about I2a, but they're distant cousins of ours, so they're chill.

[Peterski]

I1 is the only real Germanic haplogroup.

No it is not, this guy didn't speak Germanic but some extinct Non-Indo-European language:

https://genetiker.wordpress.com/y-snp-calls-for-stora-forvar-11/

The same applies to that I1 guy from Neolithic Hungary. He was also Non-Indo-European:

http://abbey-roots.blogspot.com/2014/11/the-first-ancient-i1.html

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-0bCBvUCczQw/VHGtceaqJHI/AAAAAAAADz4/brsmhdX1ak0/s1600/old.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-bSaugs_oizQ/VHG2IRFYMsI/AAAAAAAAD0U/DXTw6s_HjtQ/s1600/8f160751c048.jpg

[Bobby Martnen]

No it is not, this guy did not speak Germanic but some extinct Non-Indo-European language:

https://genetiker.wordpress.com/y-snp-calls-for-stora-forvar-11/

Then why is it associated with Germanic peoples usually?

[Dick]

No it is not, this guy did not speak Germanic but some extinct Non-Indo-European language:

https://genetiker.wordpress.com/y-snp-calls-for-stora-forvar-11/

Is I2a Slavic or did they also speak some extinct Non-Indo-European language? You told me it's Slavic. Why can't I1 belong to a European meta-ethnicity but I2 can? Why the double standard?

[Dick]

Then why is it associated with Germanic peoples usually?

According to Polacks I1 dosnt belong in Europe at all. We gonn get exterminated!

[Peterski]

Then why is it associated with Germanic peoples usually?

No idea ??? Maybe because it was assimilated by Proto-Germanic speakers.

[Bobby Martnen]

According to Polacks I1 dosnt belong in Europe at all. We gonn get exterminated!

ROFLMAO

Aren't you Slavic yourself, though?

[Peterski]

(...)

Oh shut up. 10% of Poles are I1:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Poland#Genetics

[Dick]

ROFLMAO

Aren't you Slavic yourself, though?

Yes but according to them I'm not.


Oh shut up. 10% of Poles are I1:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Poland#Genetics

You shut up. I2 is Slavic but I1 dosnt belong to any meta-ethnicity? If someone says its Germanic or Slavic you Poles go ape shit.

[Bobby Martnen]

Oh shut up. 10% of Poles are I1.

R1ethel is not going to like this. He's gonna be like


:picard2: :picard2: :picard2: :picard2: :picard2:

[Bobby Martnen]

Yes but according to them I'm not.


Is your paternal line ultimately Germanic? Mine originates from the Rhineland, and possibly German Switzerland before that.

[MercifulServant]

These haplogroup wars are absolutely pathetic.

[Dick]

Is your paternal line ultimately Germanic? Mine originates from the Rhineland, and possibly German Switzerland before that.

Idk. It apparently dosnt belong to any European meta-ethnicity at all :noidea:

[Bobby Martnen]

These haplogroup wars are absolutely pathetic.

THE1b1bSE1b1b HAPLOGR1OUP WAR1S AR1E1b1b ABSOLUTE1b1bLY PATHE1b1bTI1C

[Bobby Martnen]

Idk. It apparently dosnt belong to any European meta-ethnicity at all :noidea:

lol, but is your surname Germanic? Mine is

[Dick]

lol, but is your surname Germanic? Mine is

It's fake Slavic. I1 isnt indo-European, remember.

[Bobby Martnen]

It's fake Slavic. I1 isnt indo-European, remember.

What do you mean by "fake Slavic"?

[Peterski]

Today I2a-Din is the 2nd most common haplogroup in Ukraine (after R1a).

I2a-Din also very common in Southern Belarus and in Russia.

[Bobby Martnen]

Today I2a-Din is the 2nd most common haplogroup in Ukraine (after R1a).

It is also very common in Southern Belarus and in Russia.

THE1b1b UKR1aI1NE!

[Peterski]

And no, there were no massive migrations from the Balkans to Ukraine, Belarus and Russia in history.

It was the other way around.

[Bobby Martnen]

And no, there were no massive migrations from the Balkans to Ukraine, Belarus and Russia in history.

It was the other way around.

Aren't Balkan Slavs 1/2 NE Euro, 1/2 Med?

[Dick]

Today I2a-Din is the 2nd most common haplogroup in Ukraine (after R1a).

I2a-Din also very common in Southern Belarus and in Russia.

So you're saying it's Slavic then?

[MercifulServant]

Aren't Balkan Slavs 1/2 NE Euro, 1/2 Med?

Depends which Balkan slavs. Croats are much more Slavic then macedonians

[Bobby Martnen]

Stop! The Slavs you save may be your own
Darling take it slow
Or some day you'll be all alone

[Peterski]

Aren't Balkan Slavs 1/2 NE Euro, 1/2 Med?

Depends which ones. Bulgarians are probably the most Med.

[MercifulServant]

Depends which ones. Bulgarians are probably the most Med.

Macedonians are the most

[Peterski]

So you're saying it's Slavic then?

Originally Non-Indo-European, but assimilated by Proto-Slavs.

[Bobby Martnen]

I1NDO-E1b1bUR1OPE1b1bANS!!!!!

[Kouros]

Macedonians are the most

He already said Bulgarians

[Bosniensis]

What is there more to say than this:

I2 was formed on Balkans several thousands years ago, it came with J haplogroup through Anatolia in Europe.

End of story.


I've heard some lunatics saying "I2a1 P37 isn't slavic but I2a1 CTS 10228 IS"

It's all I2 just deeper clades, we all descended from I2.

Of course that Sardinians are our cousins.

[Peterski]

So how come I2-din is Slavic but I1 is not Germanic??
Isn't your reasoning flawed?

I1 is Germanic just like I2a-Din is Slavic. They are just not originally Indo-European.

[Bosniensis]

I1 is Germanic just like I2a-Din is Slavic. They are just not originally Indo-European.

So If we move to China and learn Chinese I2a-Din will become Chinese Right?

[Rethel]

R1ethel is not going to like this. He's gonna be like

Why?

[Bosniensis]

Discuss.

Yes.

I2 came with Slavs

Balkans was populated by Albanians and Greeks.

[JQP4545]

So was I2a-Din the original Slavic haplogroup rather than R1a? Was it spread eastward to Russia by the Slavs?

[Kelmendasi]

So was I2a-Din the original Slavic haplogroup rather than R1a? Was it spread eastward to Russia by the Slavs?
No, I2a-Din was absorbed into the Slavic ethnic groups somewhere around Poland or Ukraine but it had some distant origin around NW Europe. R1a was the haplogroup which the Slavs formed in as it's an IE haplogroup and Slavic is IE

[Bakk]

Yes, mutation I2a1b is Slavic.

[Jana]

No, I2a-Din was absorbed into the Slavic ethnic groups somewhere around Poland or Ukraine but it had some distant origin around NW Europe. R1a was the haplogroup which the Slavs formed in as it's an IE haplogroup and Slavic is IE

Slavs =/= PIE

[Kelmendasi]

Yes, mutation I2a1b is Slavic.
Not even that, I2-CTS10228 is the Slavic mutation

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Who the hell can know this :D

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Slavs =/= PIE

How do you mean ?

[Jana]

Jesues, slavs appeared tousands of years after steppe herders entered europe....ofcourse they had diverse markers.....even some E1b J2 etc subclades can be slavic....

[Bosniensis]

No, I2a-Din was absorbed into the Slavic ethnic groups somewhere around Poland or Ukraine but it had some distant origin around NW Europe. R1a was the haplogroup which the Slavs formed in as it's an IE haplogroup and Slavic is IE

It's culture in the end that defines Slavic or Not.

Those EV13 macedonians are saying "We are Ancient Macedonians" but they are of Slavic Culture, not Hellenic Culture.

[Jana]

How do you mean ?

Proto Slavs didn't have proto Indo-European genetics, they absorbed lot other things between their apperance on the scene

[Bakk]

Not even that, I2-CTS102228 is the Slavic mutation

For sure.
In eastern Europe around 15 million men belong to haplogroup I2-CTS10220, which is much a much larger number than in the Balkans.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

It's culture in the end that defines Slavic or Not.

Those EV13 macedonians are saying "We are Ancient Macedonians" but they are of Slavic Culture, not Hellenic Culture.

Yes, but Slavs imposed this culture to them. There are differences.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Polish administrator of Family Tree DNA said to me that perhaps there was some tribe which participated into Slavic ethnogenesis in Carpathian basin.

[Bakk]

Proto Slavs didn't have proto Indo-European genetics, they absorbed lot other things between their apperance on the scene

I2-CTS10228 is Slavic such as I1 is Germanic.

[Kelmendasi]

Jesues, slavs appeared tousands of years after steppe herders entered europe....ofcourse they had diverse markers.....even some E1b J2 etc subclades can be slavic....
But we're talking about the haplogroup responsible for the proto Slavic language though and that would have to be R1a most probably. Of course they would absorb some other haplos into their ethnogenesis

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Proto Slavs didn't have proto Indo-European genetics, they absorbed lot other things between their apperance on the scene

Aham, this. But the same case is with Germanics, isn't it? With Balts (R1a + N) isn't it? No one which appeared in Europe wasn't PIE if you look in this way.

[Jana]

I2-CTS10228 is Slavic such as I1 is Germanic.
I think that too.


But we're talking about the haplogroup responsible for the proto Slavic language though and that would have to be R1a most probably. Of course they would absorb some other haplos into their ethnogenesis
Yes, the language come from R1a people.

[Wrong]

I2a1b-Din came to the Balkans with the Slavs from Poland & Ukraine along with certain R1a-clades.

[Jana]

Aham, this. But the same case is with Germanics, isn't it? With Balts (R1a + N) isn't it? No one which appeared in Europe wasn't PIE if you look in this way.

Exactly! Even among PIE people they found markers like J1 or I2a2.....no people were 100% something!

human groups were never hermetically closed units

[Vlatko Vukovic]

But we're talking about the haplogroup responsible for the proto Slavic language though and that would have to be R1a most probably. Of course they would absorb some other haplos into their ethnogenesis

Language = R1a-Z280, with perhaps some little influence of Rethelites. No doubt about it.

[Bakk]

I think that too.


Yes, the language come from R1a people.

Probably.
Germanic language camo from R1b and not from I1.

[Kelmendasi]

Language = R1a-Z280, with perhaps some little influence of Rethelites. No doubt about it.
Yh most probably, seems like they had early contact with R1a-M458 though

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Yh most probably, seems like they had early contact with R1a-M458 though

Some thing made them different from Balts (since Lithuanian and Latvian are more ancient languages then it is a case with Slavic ones), but what made them different, i don't know. Maybe this was exactly M458 (which isn't very usual among Balts).

[Wrong]

Just like R1b-L23 Yamnaya had absorbed lineages, such as R1a, J2b2 & I2a2a. Newer groups, such as Slavs, had obviously more various lineages.

https://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/chalcolithic_europe.png

[Dick]

Some thing made them different from Balts (since Lithuanian and Latvian are more ancient languages then it is a case with Slavic ones), but what made them different, i don't know. Maybe this was exactly M458 (which isn't very usual among Balts).

The main cause which made splitting of Slavic from Baltic was the Iranian influence therefore it's different from Baltic. Some pronouns (nas, vas) are also loaned from Iranian (Scythian).

[Wrong]

I2a2 in the Balkans most likely came with the Yamnaya along with R1b-L23 and J2b2.

https://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-I2b.gif

[Bosniensis]

I2a2 in the Balkans most likely came with the Yamnaya along with R1b-L23 and J2b2.

https://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-I2b.gif

I mean, How Wrong can you be?

[Wrong]

I mean, How Wrong can you be?
I am always Right. Look above.

They found at least 10% I2a2 among the Yamnaya samples.

[Kelmendasi]

I2a2 in the Balkans most likely came with the Yamnaya along with R1b-L23 and J2b2.

https://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-I2b.gif
Depends. The Z161 clade of I2a2a was present in the WHG found in Serbia which suggests that I2a2 was in the Balkans before any Yamnaya influence although in modern day Balkanites the I2a2-Z161 could be from Germanic peoples as well since it's mainly found among them. The L699 branch of I2a2a seems to have come with the Yamnaya into the Balkans, it was found among Yamnaya samples and was also found in Bronze Age Bulgaria among the Yamnaya cultures there although in origin it could be from WHG peoples who got absorbed by the Yamnaya. The most common I2a2a clade in the Balkans is P78 AFAIK and is the brother clade of L699

[Vlatko Vukovic]

The main cause which made splitting of Slavic from Baltic was the Iranian influence therefore it's different from Baltic. Some pronouns (nas, vas) are also loaned from Iranian (Scythian).

It's not only about that. There are many other differences.

For examples, Balts don't have suffix "-elj" [voditelj, staratelj, učitelj, prijatelj] and many other things which are typical only for Slavic languages.

[Wrong]

Depends. The Z161 clade of I2a2a was present in the WHG found in Serbia which suggests that I2a2 was in the Balkans before any Yamnaya influence although in modern day Balkanites the I2a2-Z161 could be from Germanic peoples as well since it's mainly found among them. The L699 branch of I2a2a seems to have come with the Yamnaya into the Balkans, it was found among Yamnaya samples and was also found in Bronze Age Bulgaria among the Yamnaya cultures there although in origin it could be from WHG peoples who got absorbed by the Yamnaya. The most common I2a2a clade in the Balkans is P78 AFAIK and is the brother clade of L699
It was highly displaced as we see in the map, by Hunic-Avar, Turkic raids and others.

[Kelmendasi]

It was highly displaced as we see in the map, by Hunic-Avar, Turkic raids and others.
In origin it does come from the WHG although certain groups were absorbed and spread by the IE peoples

[Wrong]

In origin it does come from the WHG although certain groups were absorbed and spread by the IE peoples
This is common sense.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Some linguists claims that Baltic and Slavic were always separated, and their arguments are:

The arguments of the first type are:

Different fate of Indo-European / * a / , / * o / , / * a / and / * o / : / * a / , / * o / given / * o / in the Slavic, but / * a / in the Baltic, the difference / * a / and / * o / is preserved in the Baltic, but disappears in the Slavonic.
The Praindo-European / * sr / is preserved in the Baltic, but is transformed into / str / in Slavic, although several similar changes in the Baltic make it possible to assume that in the case of / * sr / we are dealing with archaism.
In the Baltic, the suffix -mo is used in ordinal numerals, whereas in the Slavic suffix -wo is used .
The suffix of the Baltic verbs is 1 liter. units hours nast. at. -mai , while in the Slavic it is not so (now this objection is under discussion).
In the Baltic often uses the infix -sto- , while in the Slavic it is absent.
In the pobaltic did not differ forms of units. h. and many others. h. in the verbs of 3 liters, while in the Proto-Slavic this difference persisted.
The Baltic suffix of adjectives -inga is not used in Slavic languages.
Baltic diminutive suffix -l- not used in Slavic languages (though, perhaps, it corresponds to the Russian suffix caressing -ul- : grandma , grandpa , etc...).
The Slavic suffix of the verbal nouns -tel- ( učitelj, graditelj ) is not used in the Baltic languages.
The pre- Indo-European suffix -es was in the Proto-Slavic ( teles, skies ), but is not used in the Baltic languages.
The Slavonic suffix of participles -lo is not used in the Baltic languages.
In the Proto-Slavic law operates an open syllable, which is absent in the Baltic (including the Prabalese) languages.
Slavic languages ​​retained the primordial European aorist by -s- (a sigmatic aorist), whereas in the Baltic languages ​​its traces were not found. (This claim is disputed.)
The pre-Slavic quantitative numerals of the large quantitativ ( five, six, ... , etc.) have the suffix -t , while in the Baltic languages ​​there are no traces of it.
The absence in the Baltic languages ​​of Meie's law, associated with satematic reflexes and the operation of the law "hands". The law of "hand" operated before the beginning of the satemization of languages, hence it is possible to see in this the division of languages ​​before the beginning of the processes of satemization.

[Jana]

I heard there are special N1c subclades that are more associated with Slavs, than with Finno-Ugric peoples too. Is that true ?

[Bosniensis]

I heard there are special N1c subclades that are more associated with Slavs, than with Finno-Ugric peoples too. Is that true ?

What % of Croats have N1c?

[Jana]

What % of Croats have N1c?

Less than 1% ?
Very few.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

I heard there are special N1c subclades that are more associated with Slavs, than with Finno-Ugric peoples too. Is that true ?

N-CTS8173 perhaps?

[JQP4545]

If I2a-Din is Slavic then how do we explain the high percentage in Aromuns?

[Wrong]

If I2a-Din is Slavic then how do we explain the high percentage in Aromuns?
They would wed Slavic peoples due to religious ties through Orthodoxy. Aromuns always carry similar haplotypes to the host population of every region.

[Kelmendasi]

If I2a-Din is Slavic then how do we explain the high percentage in Aromuns?
A Slavic male marries into a Aromanian family and has more male children than the other guys who carry different haplogroups, and due to the fact that he is producing more males who will carry his Ydna the frequency of that Ydna will in turn increase to the point that it replaces the others as the dominant haplogroup. Also certain Aromanians groups like the ones in Albania are in fact mainly J2b2, R1b and E-V13

[Ayman Vasconic]

Discuss.

Absolutly not. I see that I-people here have some Indo-European delusions. One part want to be germanic, second part slavic. Why do you hate yourself?

[Bosniensis]

We are Slavs.

It's better that way :)

[oszkar07]

What is there more to say than this:

I2 was formed on Balkans several thousands years ago, it came with J haplogroup through Anatolia in Europe.

End of story.


I've heard some lunatics saying "I2a1 P37 isn't slavic but I2a1 CTS 10228 IS"

It's all I2 just deeper clades, we all descended from I2.

Of course that Sardinians are our cousins.

How do you see 12a2a eg IM223 ?

[Bosniensis]

How do you see 12a2a eg IM223 ?

Celts, probably British Celts who predate Germanic people.

[oszkar07]

British Celts

but its I2.

Anyway I disagree with you , its more likely historically been carried around by Germanics as it has similiar frequency in various parts of Europe, including specific parts Germany , Sweden , to smaller degree in central Europe and some more representation in certain parts of Russia and Moldavia.
My paternal line is Hungarian not British and I have seen other Hungarians with IM223 haplogroup but admittedly it doesnt have very significant frequency in Hungary.



"I-M223 has a peak in Germany and another in eastern Sweden, but also appears in Romania/Moldova, Russia, Greece, Italy and around the Black Sea.[22] Haplogroup I2a2a has been found in over 4% of the population only in Germany, the Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark, Scotland, and England (excluding Cornwall) – also the southern tips of Sweden and Norway in Northwest Europe; the provinces of Normandy, Maine, Anjou, and Perche in northwestern France; the province of Provence in southeastern France; the regions of Tuscany, Umbria, and Latium in Italy; Moldavia and the area around Russia's Ryazan Oblast and Mordovia in Eastern Europe. Of historical note, both haplogroups I-M253 and I-M223 appear at a low frequency in the historical regions of Bithynia and Galatia in Turkey. Haplogroup I2a2a also occurs among approximately 1% of Sardinians. The subclade divergence for M223 occurred 14.6±3.8 kya (Rootsi 2004)."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_I-M438#I-M223

[Bosniensis]

but its I2.

Anyway I disagree with you , its more likely historically been carried around by Germanics as it has similiar frequency in various parts of Europe, including specific parts Germany , Sweden , to smaller degree in central Europe and some more representation in certain parts of Russia and Moldavia.
My paternal line is Hungarian not British and I have seen other Hungarians with IM223 haplogroup but admittedly it doesnt have very significant frequency in Hungary.

Well, Celts lived in:

1. Spain
2. France
3. Britain
4. Balkans
5. Anatolia

Or pretty much everywhere.


They got exterminated by R1 peoples.

[oszkar07]

Well, Celts lived in:

1. Spain
2. France
3. Britain
4. Balkans
5. Anatolia

Or pretty much everywhere.


They got exterminated by R1 peoples.

Interesting that it seems to have low presentation in Cornwall England which is usually seen as historically Celtic.
It seems to have more prevalence in Scotland than Ireland ...so possibly from Vikings.
I dont see it as being British Celt origin.
Also not sure that Celts were heavily present in Sweden.
There are certain clades of 12a2 that are more prevalent or almost exclusive to Britain/England.

"According to the Germanic substrate hypothesis, first proposed by Sigmund Feist in 1932, Proto-Germanic was a hybrid language mixing Indo-European (R1b, and to a lower extent R1a) and pre-Indo-European (Mesolithic I2 and Neolithic G2a and I1) elements. This hybridisation would have taken place during the Bronze Age and given birth to the first Proto-Germanic civilization, the Nordic Bronze Age (1700-500 BCE)."
https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_I1_Y-DNA.shtml#germanic

[RandomGuy20]

Not too sure but here's a map from Living DNA about I2:
https://i.imgur.com/LjYY42r.png

[Voskos]

It's Bosniak. If you're I2 you're likely related to Bosniensis.

[Kelmendasi]

The clades of I2a1b carried among South Slavs and other Slavs are Slavic and expanded during the early middle ages

[Ayman Vasconic]

We are Slavs.

No.


It's better that way :)

Whatever you like, but it deas not make you a Slav. You can be slavic, but not a real Slav.

[cyberlorian]

Discuss.

Yes, mostly.

[Bosniensis]

No.



Whatever you like, but it deas not make you a Slav. You can be slavic, but not a real Slav.

We are ethnic trash.

F.Engels & Carl Marx.

[Ülev]

le bump!


Not too sure but here's a map from Living DNA about I2:
https://i.imgur.com/LjYY42r.png

[Ülev]

We are Slavs.

It's better that way :)

are you sure... still?

[Bosniensis]

are you sure... still?

Necropost last century.

[Kmakkmak]

I2a is originally non-indo-european and later assimilated into indo-european. today distribution is not show origin of haplogroups.

[Crn Volk]

It's culture in the end that defines Slavic or Not.

Those EV13 macedonians are saying "We are Ancient Macedonians" but they are of Slavic Culture, not Hellenic Culture.

And what is Slavic culture? I'm pretty sure Macedonian culture is more similar to Greek or Romanian than it is to Polish or Czech. Eg. do they dance Oro/Horo and eat Sarma/Dolmates in Poland?

[Bosniensis]

And what is Slavic culture? I'm pretty sure Macedonian culture is more similar to Greek or Romanian than it is to Polish or Czech. Eg. do they dance Oro/Horo and eat Sarma/Dolmates in Poland?

It's 50%/50% I hope you will shift towards Greeks and Romanians. I would stay away from Russophiles if I was Macedonian Orthodox, since I am Ottoman slavo-vlach those things are not related to me.

[vbnetkhio]

And what is Slavic culture? I'm pretty sure Macedonian culture is more similar to Greek or Romanian than it is to Polish or Czech. Eg. do they dance Oro/Horo and eat Sarma/Dolmates in Poland?

say no more:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go%C5%82%C4%85bki

and Polish highlanders Gorals dance the kolo

[ixulescu]

say no more:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go%C5%82%C4%85bki

and Polish highlanders Gorals dance the kolo

Yes but Gorals had many cultural connections to Vlachs.

[Crn Volk]

say no more:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go%C5%82%C4%85bki

and Polish highlanders Gorals dance the kolo


History
In the 16th and 17th centuries Gorals settled the upper Kysuca, Orava rivers, and part of northern Spiš.[4] These territories were part of the northern Kingdom of Hungary.[5] The mountainous regions were settled with pastoral Slavs with the "Vlach law".[5]

and


It was noted that Gorals' social and economic life resembled that of Vlach shepherd culture.[14]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorals

[Crn Volk]

It's 50%/50% I hope you will shift towards Greeks and Romanians. I would stay away from Russophiles if I was Macedonian Orthodox, since I am Ottoman slavo-vlach those things are not related to me.

Yes, we are churki for the Russians

[vbnetkhio]

in the 16th and 17th centuries Gorals settled the upper Kysuca,

but where did they come from?

[Crn Volk]

but where did they come from?

Balkans originally

[Dick]

It's 50%/50% I hope you will shift towards Greeks and Romanians. I would stay away from Russophiles if I was Macedonian Orthodox, since I am Ottoman slavo-vlach those things are not related to me.

Slovlak


https://www.theapricity.com/snpa/bilder/glossdinarid.jpg