Arpad dynasty Mongoloid kings. R1a DNA is irrelevant without anthropological data.

[ButlerKing]

This is no troll thread. It is 100% fact. Many member are acting as if they are pure Caucasoid because of being R1a. Why are people so naïve ??????

Racial paternal ancestors of Arpad dynasty of the 10th century could very well be Mongoloid never mind the Y-DNA haplogroup ancestors being Caucasian. There is only Y-DNA info of him being R1a but not a single anthropological info. Which makes it a extremely pointless study.

It also says: " Among the examined skeletons, we discovered an Árpád member, whose exact affiliation, however, has not yet been established. " ( Link-----> https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12520-018-0609-7 )


Anthropology of conquering hungarians

" Pál Lipták's research 16.7 percent of 10th century human bones belong to the Mongoloid and Euro-Mongoloid types. The European characteristics in the biological composition of the recent Hungarian population and the lack of Asian markers are not solely due to the thousand years of blending.[61] Biologically, the population around 1000 AD in Hungary was made up almost exclusively of Europeans.[61] "

Meaning there is still a 16.7% chance of him being Mongoloid and Mongoloid-Euro ??? That's quite a high possibility that he could still be Mongoloid


In other words the data provided in this thread by Peterski is useless because it doesn't answer the most important question of all.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?235533-Arpad-dynasty-DNA-(kings-of-Hungary-amp-Croatia)


Béla III of the Arpad dynasty - king of Hungary and Croatia in 1172–1196:

Y-DNA haplogroup - R1a
mtDNA haplogroup - H1b

Source: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12520-018-0609-7

======

Edit:

In one of previous studies, there were Magyars with I2a and R1b:

As well as two Early Magyars with N1c (from yet another study):

Modern Szeklers have a non-negligible frequency of N1c - 6.52%.

One of them has Mongoloid mtDNA haplogroup B4d1. The other one has H6a1b.




WHY IS IT USELESS ?????

The Xiongnu founders. Ruling Mongoloid R1a males existed thousand years before the existence of Arpad dynasty.

" According to another archeological and genetic study in 2010, the DNA found in three skeletons in 2000-year-old elite Xiongnu cemetery in Northeast Asia belonged to C3, D4 and including R1a. Analysis of skeletal remains from sites attributed to the Xiongnu provides an identification of dolichocephalic Mongoloid, ethnically distinct from neighboring populations in present-day Mongolia.[20] "

" According to another archeological and genetic study in 2010, the paternal Y-chromosome R1a, which is considered as an Indo-European marker, was found in three skeletons in 2000-year-old elite Xiongnu cemetery in Northeast Asia, As the R1a was found in Xiongnu people[13] and the present-day people of Central Asia[14] Analysis of skeletal remains from sites attributed to the Xiongnu provides an identification of dolichocephalic Mongoloid, ethnically distinct from neighboring populations in present-day Mongolia.[15] "


Just like you can't claim a Negro with R1b as West European pride. Does that mean the Chadic kingdom are paternally Europeans ??? The Chadic people are 92% R1b does that mean any skeleton results that come these guys are R1b makes them Caucasoid ?

http://legacy.joshuaproject.net/profiles/photos/p10166.jpg


Cultures/skeletons that existed thousand years before the existence of Arpad dynasty


Pazyryk culture ( R1a, N1b )

" Craniological studies of samples from the Pazyryk burials revealed the presence of both Mongoloid and Caucasoid components in this population.[6] quoting G. F. Debets on the physical characteristics of the population in the Pazyryk kurgans, records a mixed population. The men would seem to be part Mongoloid and the women Europoid.[7] "


Anayino culture

Sculptural reconstruction of men Lugovskyi burial
Ananyino culture. Gypsum. MMGerasimov work.


" Reconstruction of the mounds number 5, 6 show burial Stone Barn in racial make women Ural type men - striking features of Central Asian Mongoloid."



MALE : R1a Central Asian Mongoloid male
FEMALE: H1a Caucasian Uralic mix female.

http://www.imageup.ru/img195/1641901/tyurk1.jpg

http://www.imageup.ru/img195/1641909/f-u1.jpg

Because R1a in Middle east look Middle eastern, R1a in North Indians/Pakistani look like
North Indians/Pakistani ( same for the very South Indian looking Indians )

R1a in Central Asians, South Siberians ???? They look about as Mongoloid as any East Asian with R1a.

Most Southeast Asian with western Eurasian hapgroups comes from Indian/South Asian population not from Europeans or middle easterners

[ButlerKing]

I wonder.... do people seriously think R1a in Cambodians come from Iranians or Europeans ????

Y-DNA R1a 7.5%
mtDNA 2.5% West Eurasian haplogroup U with 4.5% South Asian mtDNA like mtDNA M2 ,


All western Eurasian haplogroup in Cambodians came from Indians and the proof is in the fact they also have typical south Asian admixture

South Asian mtDNA map
http://i60.tinypic.com/r0o2v6.png

Do you think any great Indian leader with R1a is related with non-Indians



I've seen haplogroup L Indians who are light skinned and R1a Indians who are super dark skinned.


Not all Brahmins have R1a either and even though most of them do they are all typically South Asian. If Indians with R1a spreads to Europe than it is still Indian males looking Indians spreading their Y-DNA to Europe.


To me Indians who invade Europe and spread R1a DNA is more Indian than a invading white looking gypsy with H or L Y-DNA.

[blogen]

Here is the R1a king's skull and reconstructed head (Béla III or Kálmán I, but possible Kálmán):

http://i44.tinypic.com/nbrdyr.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/15s7ehg.jpg

Definitely Europo-Mongoloid, a Dinaro-Turanid admixture (maybe Dinaro-Turano-Pamirid. Common between the Árpád-house.

László I:
http://i44.tinypic.com/2uf8rhg.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/2njiud3.png
http://i44.tinypic.com/32zswt2.jpg

Dinaro-Turanid.

"A morfológiai vizsgálatok egyértelműen azt erősítették meg, hogy egy ötvenes éveinek közepén, végén járó, kissé mongolos beütésű, de alapvetően europid jellegű, nagyon jó fizikai állapotban lévő férfi koponyája található a hermában. A koponya enyhén keleties jellemzőinek azonosítása dr. Molnár Erika szegedi és dr. Pap Ildikó budapesti antropológusok érdeme – mondja az antropológiai vizsgálat vezetője. – Igaz, hogy a fogak nagy része hiányzott, de azokat nagy valószínűség szerint a halála után, post mortem távolították el ereklyekészítési céllal."
short translation:
"based on the morphological examinations, this is an fifty years old, slightly Mongoloid, but basically Europid man's skull."
examiner: Dr. Molnár Erika antropologist, University of Szeged

A Dinaro-Pamirid king's head from the former cathedral of Kalocsa:
http://mek.oszk.hu/01900/01954/html/cd2m/kepek/c0524kalo.jpg
http://s27.postimg.org/qx2wxxoo3/kalocsa_dinaro_pamirid.jpg
The carving is a little deformed depiction, this was part an column or other vertical structure presumably, so I compressed the frontal picture with fifteen percentages.

The model of this head was presumably Andrew II, same characteristic head with a flappy ear on his seal:
http://mek.oszk.hu/00800/00893/html/img/nagy/1d21.jpg
http://s27.postimg.org/xc6j8ckrn/pamiro_dinarid.jpg

The main character of the Árpád-house kings was Europid, but they were an Europo-Mongoloid admixture from the common Hungarian Turano-Pamirid stock.

[ButlerKing]

László I:
http://i44.tinypic.com/2uf8rhg.jpg
.

Good stuff this is what we need. An anthropology data is 1000000x better than genetic data.


If it was R1a in west europe than it don't surprise me it being europeans but since Hungarian claim genetic connections with central asians that's the problem. There's no risk R1a in west Europe being european but there's huge risk R1a in Central Asia could have from Mongoloids especially for every European that claim connections with them like Hungaria, Turkey. because Mongoloids or Mongoloid-Euro R1a ( who inherited their fighting skills from their Scythian male ancestors) never went as far as west europe except for Germany, Austria.

It wouldn't be surprising that the Turkic Mongoloid invaders were primary R1a instead of Q,N the Scythians were powerful R1a nomads


Btw László I looks like Tommy Chung. His grandfather is Chinese. THIS IS NOT MONGOLOID just europoid with some mongoloid ancestry.
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BMjE1MzYxNDg4Nl5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTYwMzU4NzYz._V1_U Y317_CR3,0,214,317_AL_.jpg
http://www.memoram.com/Tommy_chong_blueSHOP.jpg

[blogen]

The ancestors of the Hungarian aristocracy. late Sargat culture royal burials from Sidorovka/Isakova 2-4th century AD, metised and clear (?) Andronovo Cromagnoids (the Turanid race is this metised version):

http://www.evpatori.ru/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/%D0%93%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%81%D0%B8%D0%BC%D0%BE%D 0%B2-Sargatka-%D0%97%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%BE-%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%83%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%8C%D 1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D1%85-%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D1%84%D0%BE%D0%B2.jpg
http://i42.tinypic.com/sos4z9.jpg

This was the end of the ancient Magyar age. The eastern neighbours of the Magyars were the first Turkic peoples of the Central-Asian/West Siberian steppe: the Huns. This is the time and the space when the Magyar-Turkic cultural connections started and ended the Iranian (Sarmatian, Scythian, Khorezmian) dominancy in the Hungarian culture.

[ButlerKing]

The ancestors of the Hungarian aristocracy. late Sargat culture royal burials from Sidorovka/Isakova 2-4th century AD, metised Andronovo Cromagnoids (the Turanid race is this metised version):



Do you acknowledge these people are Iranic and not Turkic ?

Sargat culture seems to be Iranian but Y-DNA is different. I can't find any information on them being related with Hungarian aristocracy.

I don't know how Turanid they are but certainly don't look very Turanid. ( I'm assuming you Mongoloid-Caucasoid hybrid )

B. Csányi, E. Bogácsi-Szabó, Gy. Tömöry, Á. Czibula, K. Priskin, A. Csősz, B. Mende, P. Langó, K. Csete, A. Zsolnai, E. K. Conant, C. S. Downes, and I. Raskó. "Y-Chromosome Analysis of Ancient Hungarian and Two Modern Hungarian-Speaking Populations from the Carpathian Basin." Annals of Human Genetics 72:4 (July 2008): pages 519-534. 100

" Hungarian people from Hungary and 97 Hungarian-speaking Szekler people from Transylvania in present-day Romania were genetically tested. DNA was also successfully sampled from the skeletons of 4 Hungarians who lived in the 10th century.Two of the skeletons that were anthropologically Caucasoid-Mongoloid hybrids carried the Y-DNA haplogroup N3 (later ramed N1c) while one of them carried the Caucasoid mtDNA haplogroup H. This, along with the evidence from modern-day Hungarians, shows that the Magyar invaders had intermarried with local European tribes, greatly watering down Mongoloid genetic and physical traits among those who continued to speak the Hungarian language. Summary: "



I do not think they look mostly Mongoloid though.


They can either be caucasoid or a Turanid with caucasoid appearance. For example 1/4 Chinese Katie Findlay
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-qfftARgZca8/VFdULAzEooI/AAAAAAAACME/Jg3jF_rIGnc/s1600/katiefindlay__140301181925.jpg

[Yaglakar]

What's with your obsession in regards to "Mongoloids"? :) Do you secretly want to join a tumen? :rolleyes: And ride beneath the blue sky wherever wind blows? :viking1:

[blogen]

Do you acknowledge these people are Iranic and not Turkic ?

These peoples were Magyars. Some of them was maybe the ancestors of the Árpád-house or other medieval Hungarian aristocratic family.

[Harkonnen]

Do you acknowledge these people are Iranic and not Turkic ?

Sargat people were Ugric.

[Harkonnen]

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/321071660_Kinship_Analysis_of_Human_Remains_from_t he_Sargat_Mounds_Baraba_Forest-Steppe_Western_Siberia

Here is Y-dna and mitoDNA from Sargats:

Pg1 N1a1a1a
Pg2 U5a1 R1a1
Pg3 H R1a1
Pg4 U5a1 N1c1
Pg5 C4a2c1 N1c1
Sg1 U5a1 N1c1
Sg2 H8 N1c1
Sg3 H8 N1c1

[ButlerKing]

What's with your obsession in regards to "Mongoloids"? :) Do you secretly want to join a tumen? :rolleyes: And ride beneath the blue sky wherever wind blows? :viking1:

Properly because there's way too many topics on the history central Asians. If you look at theapricity, 50% of the threads about Central asians Turks anthropology type, R1a being pure caucasian or Turkic. They are too focused on Central Asian history because they created many empires that ruled over Europe, middle east, South Asia so the Turkish Turks want to claim glory by claiming all these people are racially similar to them and Europeans also want them to be related with European.

There's double standard and racism by apricity members. If gypsies were a world conqueror nomad race I can assure you 100% Europeans and Turks would be kissing their boots claiming gypsies are superior white but because they aren't such type of people they simply claim they are Indians even though genetics of these people are only 30% Indian and 70% European/Caucasus

By phenotypes Gypsies are way more caucasoid than central asians but you don't see them talking about them as much they do with Mongoloid Turks
https://mathildasanthropologyblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/roma-montage.png?w=500

[ButlerKing]

Their opinion on haplogroup is also double standard and too euro-centrist.

The mentality with most of them thinking R1a that is exclusive only to individual males who look europeans or a caucasian from Asia who look exclusively European. BIG MISTAKE !!

North Indians have the highest R1a in the world by per capita and surely many great Indian leaders are also R1a however it would highly offensive to claim Indian leader R1a are descendants of Europeans slavs or blonde hair Iranians. Any Indians R1a existed since the times of neolithic so even if R1a originated outside of South Asia it is irrelevant as they were already south asian veddoid admixed before their identity were even formed. There are South Asians with South Indian haplogroups L and look far more western eurasian than South Asians with R1a aswell.

[blogen]

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/321071660_Kinship_Analysis_of_Human_Remains_from_t he_Sargat_Mounds_Baraba_Forest-Steppe_Western_Siberia

Here is Y-dna and mitoDNA from Sargats:

Pg1 N1a1a1a
Pg2 U5a1 R1a1
Pg3 H R1a1
Pg4 U5a1 N1c1
Pg5 C4a2c1 N1c1
Sg1 U5a1 N1c1
Sg2 H8 N1c1
Sg3 H8 N1c1

Jewelries from buckle Pogorelka-2 kurgan (Sargat culture), Western Siberia:
https://i.img.ie/3q6.jpg
(9–11 – бляшки-нашивки из желтого металла)

Same style jewelries (different function) from an early 10th century Magyar grave from Dabas, Hungary:
http://cdn.blog.hu/si/sirasok/image/Dabas2010/13_c_nagy.jpg

[ButlerKing]

R1a is European or pseudo-European blah blah blah.... it's always the eurocentrist exclusive opinions on what a racial person's should look like based on their Y-DNA

Using Indians as a example. According to a dumb eurocentrist logic a ancient South Indian male with R1a would have looked European ? ( The problem is they think only North Indians with R1a look closest to Europeans )

There are South Indian tribes with 30% R1a and look like this. Does that mean if a South Indian tribal male mixes with a European women that R1a is still European and not South Indian tribal looking males ?

http://realhistoryww.com/world_history/ancient/Images_Indus/dravidian_4.jpg

A gypsy with haplogroup H ( South Indian marker )

http://001yourtranslationservice.com/me/the-gypsy-traveler/pics/the-gypsy-traveler_cover-300.jpg
https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/slovak-roma-or-gypsy-jana-serisska-holds-one-of-her-children-outside-picture-id3030043

[Harkonnen]

The ancestors of the Hungarian aristocracy. late Sargat culture royal burials from Sidorovka/Isakova 2-4th century AD, metised and clear (?) Andronovo Cromagnoids (the Turanid race is this metised version):

http://www.evpatori.ru/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/%D0%93%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%81%D0%B8%D0%BC%D0%BE%D 0%B2-Sargatka-%D0%97%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%BE-%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%83%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%8C%D 1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D1%85-%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D1%84%D0%BE%D0%B2.jpg
http://i42.tinypic.com/sos4z9.jpg

This was the end of the ancient Magyar age. The eastern neighbours of the Magyars were the first Turkic peoples of the Central-Asian/West Siberian steppe: the Huns. This is the time and the space when the Magyar-Turkic cultural connections started and ended the Iranian (Sarmatian, Scythian, Khorezmian) dominancy in the Hungarian culture.

These 2 are also Sargat reconstructions

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/84/Реконструкция_бюстов_носителей_саргатской_культуры .JPG

Sargat battle armour:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7e/Реконструкция_доспехов_саргата.JPG

[ButlerKing]

These 2 are also Sargat reconstructions


What's their racial type ? Do they belong to Turanid , euro-mongoloid, or simply Europoid ?
They don't seem to have mongoloid admixture on their faces although I could be wrong

B. Csányi, E. Bogácsi-Szabó, Gy. Tömöry, Á. Czibula, K. Priskin, A. Csősz, B. Mende, P. Langó, K. Csete, A. Zsolnai, E. K. Conant, C. S. Downes, and I. Raskó. "Y-Chromosome Analysis of Ancient Hungarian and Two Modern Hungarian-Speaking Populations from the Carpathian Basin." Annals of Human Genetics 72:4 (July 2008): pages 519-534. 100

" Hungarian people from Hungary and 97 Hungarian-speaking Szekler people from Transylvania in present-day Romania were genetically tested. DNA was also successfully sampled from the skeletons of 4 Hungarians who lived in the 10th century. Two of the skeletons that were anthropologically Caucasoid-Mongoloid hybrids carried the Y-DNA haplogroup N3 (later ramed N1c) while one of them carried the Caucasoid mtDNA haplogroup H. This, along with the evidence from modern-day Hungarians, shows that the Magyar invaders had intermarried with local European tribes, greatly watering down Mongoloid genetic and physical traits among those who continued to speak the Hungarian language"

[ButlerKing]

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/321071660_Kinship_Analysis_of_Human_Remains_from_t he_Sargat_Mounds_Baraba_Forest-Steppe_Western_Siberia

Here is Y-dna and mitoDNA from Sargats:

Pg1 N1a1a1a
Pg2 U5a1 R1a1
Pg3 H R1a1
Pg4 U5a1 N1c1
Pg5 C4a2c1 N1c1
Sg1 U5a1 N1c1
Sg2 H8 N1c1
Sg3 H8 N1c1


Sargat culture seems to be surrounded by Iranic or Indo-European cultures.

I think they are mixture of Indo-European and Ugric. Their R1a, mtDNA H8, U5 are Indo-European.

[Marmara]

Properly because there's way too many topics on the history central Asians. If you look at theapricity, 50% of the threads about Central asians Turks anthropology type, R1a being pure caucasian or Turkic. They are too focused on Central Asian history because they created many empires that ruled over Europe, middle east, South Asia so the Turkish Turks want to claim glory by claiming all these people are racially similar to them and Europeans also want them to be related with European.

There's double standard and racism by apricity members. If gypsies were a world conqueror nomad race I can assure you 100% Europeans and Turks would be kissing their boots claiming gypsies are superior white but because they aren't such type of people they simply claim they are Indians even though genetics of these people are only 30% Indian and 70% European/Caucasus

By phenotypes Gypsies are way more caucasoid than central asians but you don't see them talking about them as much they do with Mongoloid Turks
https://mathildasanthropologyblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/roma-montage.png?w=500

:picard1: I really don't understand you. So being Caucasian is being superior, and a Gypsy is superior to a Japanese?

[Harkonnen]

Sargat culture seems to be surrounded by Iranic or Indo-European cultures.

I think they are mixture of Indo-European and Ugric. Their R1a, mtDNA H8, U5 are Indo-European.

Their R1a1 is likely native Siberian. According to ancient dna R1a1 was in Siberia before Uralic language spread there from East Europe.

[blogen]

What's their racial type ? Do they belong to Turanid , euro-mongoloid, or simply Europoid ?

The men is clear Europid Andronovo Cromagnoid, the women is the metised Turanid presumably, based on these reconstructions.

[blogen]

Sargat culture seems to be surrounded by Iranic or Indo-European cultures.

I think they are mixture of Indo-European and Ugric. Their R1a, mtDNA H8, U5 are Indo-European.

This admixture is an archeological fact. Both culture, the proto-Magyar Cherkaskul and the ancient Magyar Sargat culture was Ugric-Iranian admixture culturally, anthropologically and of course genetically.

[ButlerKing]

The men is clear Europid Andronovo Cromagnoid, the women is the metised Turanid presumably, based on these reconstructions.

I don't see any difference.

[blogen]

I don't see any difference.

Cheekbone.

[ButlerKing]

:picard1: I really don't understand you. So being Caucasian is being superior, and a Gypsy is superior to a Japanese?


You misunderstood my point.

[Harkonnen]

Sargat culture seems to be surrounded by Iranic or Indo-European cultures.

I think they are mixture of Indo-European and Ugric. Their R1a, mtDNA H8, U5 are Indo-European.

https://s13.postimg.org/5ijqr5o47/ironage.jpg

What Indo-European cultures was it actually surrounded by? Remember Pazyryks were N1b. I'm starting to think none of those Iron Age Steppe cultures were Indo-European.

[Marmara]

You misunderstood my point.

Okay, probably; but, there is still no double standard or racism. Hungarian Conquerors shaped Europe. Gypsies have always been just alien people even after centuries. That is why people are more interested in who Hungarian Conquerors were how they looked like.

[ButlerKing]

https://s13.postimg.org/5ijqr5o47/ironage.jpg

What Indo-European cultures was it actually surrounded by? Remember Pazyryks were N1b. I'm starting to think none of those Iron Age Steppe cultures were Indo-European.


Sargat is located around north kazakhstan and western siberia, all those populations were Iranic but a bit more east north are Uralic.

Uralic expanded from east to west.


Pazyryks were both N1b and R1a.



The Iranic inhabited a much larger population and lands before

http://www.cais-soas.com/CAIS/Images2/Maps/Achaemenid_and_Iranic_Peoples_in_the_Ancient_World _600.PNG

[blogen]

https://s13.postimg.org/5ijqr5o47/ironage.jpg

What Indo-European cultures was it actually surrounded by? Remember Pazyryks were N1b. I'm starting to think none of those Iron Age Steppe cultures were Indo-European.

All of the Southwestern (Sarmatians), Southern (Sarmatians, Sakas) and Eastern (Sakas and Scythians) neighbours of the Sargat were Iranians.

The northeastern neighbours were Samoyeds, Yeniseians or others maybe, the northerns were Ugors, while the Northwesterns were Fennics.

[Harkonnen]

I would advice to look at forehead. Siberian mongoloids have small foreheads and diamondshaped (often tall) face. Pazyryk has big broad forehead and broad jaw.

https://s13.postimg.org/qs7d2aes7/pazyryk.jpg

[Harkonnen]

All of the Southwestern (Sarmatians), Southern (Sarmatians, Sakas) and Eastern (Sakas and Scythians) neighbours of the Sargat were Iranians.

The northeastern neighbours were Samoyeds, Yeniseians or others maybe, the northerns were Ugors, while the Northwesterns were Fennics.

LOL, get the fuck out of here Hungarian.

[ButlerKing]

Okay, probably; but, there is still no double standard or racism. Hungarian Conquerors shaped Europe. Gypsies have always been just alien people even after centuries. That is why people are more interested in who Hungarian Conquerors were how they looked like.

If gypsies were conquerors everyone would be claiming them but because Central Asians are the ones who were conquerors you have people even trying to claim a mixed looking Mongoloid looking Turk as one of their own. This is their double standard mentality.

Also I'm sick of the idea that many members here think all the R1a Y-DNA are spreaded by European looking males when much of R1a was also spread by South Asian looking males.

[blogen]

I don't know what is the problem with the Eastern Eurasian Mongoloids. They were great warriors, so their blood was perfect for mixing!

[Harkonnen]

If gypsies were conquerors everyone would be claiming them but because Central Asians are the ones who were conquerors you have people even trying to claim a mixed looking Mongoloid looking Turk as one of their own. This is their double standard mentality.

Also I'm sick of the idea that many members here think all the R1a Y-DNA are spreaded by European looking males when much of R1a was also spread by South Asian looking males.

Kivutkalns R1a1 men in Baltia actually cluster closest to South Asians in craniofacial studies, so I agree with your last point.

[Harkonnen]

Moiseev, V.G., Khartanovich, V.I. & Zubova, A.V., The Upper Paleolithic man from Markina Gora: Morphology vs. genetics?


The second CV opposes the bearers of the Okunev
culture of the Middle Bronze epoch in West Siberia to
the population of Southeast Asia and the Papuans of
New Guinea. The rest of the groups are neutral in
relation to this variability direction except for the series
from the Kivutkalns site of the Bronze epoch in Latvia,
which shifts toward South Asian groups.

[Marmara]

If gypsies were conquerors everyone would be claiming them but because Central Asians are the ones who were conquerors you have people even trying to claim a mixed looking Mongoloid looking Turk as one of their own. This is their double standard mentality.


WTF? Here we're discussing Arpad, founded the crown of Hungary, changed the Central and Eastern Europe forever, and you think it's a double standard? If a Gypsy has been a king or anything yes people would claim him, there is no double standard.

People don't claim random Asians or Genghis Khan to be European.

[ButlerKing]

The ancestors of the Hungarian aristocracy. late Sargat culture royal burials from Sidorovka/Isakova 2-4th century AD, metised and clear (?) Andronovo Cromagnoids (the Turanid race is this metised version):

http://www.evpatori.ru/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/%D0%93%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%81%D0%B8%D0%BC%D0%BE%D 0%B2-Sargatka-%D0%97%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%BE-%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%83%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%8C%D 1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D1%85-%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D1%84%D0%BE%D0%B2.jpg
http://i42.tinypic.com/sos4z9.jpg

This was the end of the ancient Magyar age. The eastern neighbours of the Magyars were the first Turkic peoples of the Central-Asian/West Siberian steppe: the Huns. This is the time and the space when the Magyar-Turkic cultural connections started and ended the Iranian (Sarmatian, Scythian, Khorezmian) dominancy in the Hungarian culture.


Do you think it's possible for them to be 1/3 Mongoloid ?

Mei-Yin Lloyd- Canadian 1/2 Chinese
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/f0/5d/78/f05d78461c13627102737779d206b533--mixed-race-oriental.jpg


1/2 Chinese

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BMjEwNjAwMDQxMl5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwOTQzMzAzMQ@@._ V1_.jpg

1/3 Chinese
http://www.arogundade.com/Resources/alexa-chung-352.jpg

[ButlerKing]

Kivutkalns R1a1 men in Baltia actually cluster closest to South Asians in craniofacial studies, so I agree with your last point.

Ancient South Asians were the original people of Arabia, Middle east, Central Asia and most like spread as far as europe.

Gypsies were not the first migrants to go around the world from south asia. Other ancient South Asian males immigrated to other parts of the world and contributed their superior genes to central asians, europeans, turks.

[Harkonnen]

Ancient South Asians were the original people of Arabia, Middle east, Central Asia and most like spread as far as europe.

Gypsies were not the first migrants to go around the world from south asia. Other ancient South Asian males immigrated to other parts of the world and contributed their superior genes to central asians, europeans, turks.

South Asians spread all the way to Baltia (Kivutkalns)

[ButlerKing]

South Asian genes are the most unique of all races as it is 2 variety of caucasoids; west eurasian + veddoid where as other caucasoids are simply western eurasians.

For your info " Proto-Caucasoid " was everywhere in Europe, middle east and look the most closest to modern day South Asians. Here is proto-European Kostenki. It's true that ancient proto-Caucasoid do have some pseudo-Australoid like traits that would confuse people for being Australoid due to somewhat broader noses, and thicker lips but overall it's Caucasoid. South Asians are today are a various mixture of new Caucasoid ( West Eurasian ) and proto-Caucasoid ( ASI ). South Asians have heavy Paleolithic Caucasoid admixture which distinguished them from all the other Caucasoids outside of South Asia who have predominant Neolithic Caucasoid admixture.


http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/47021000/jpg/_47021484__mg_0199-1.jpg

[ButlerKing]

South Asians spread all the way to Baltia (Kivutkalns)

Yes, there are many ancient European skulls that resembles the Veddoid phenotypes of South Asian

Just look proto-European Kostenki of Russia.

[ButlerKing]

WTF? Here we're discussing Arpad, founded the crown of Hungary, changed the Central and Eastern Europe forever, and you think it's a double standard? If a Gypsy has been a king or anything yes people would claim him, there is no double standard.

People don't claim random Asians or Genghis Khan to be European.

But aren't they central Asian origin ? that means theres as chance they were partially mongoloid. why not let a Kazakh or a Tajik claim them.


I think Tajiks being the last of the true surviving central Asian Iranians have more right to claim the legacy of original central Asians that some Anatolian turks, slav, Hungarian Balkans who claim every one of them as their own.

[ButlerKing]

These 2 are also Sargat reconstructions

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/84/Реконструкция_бюстов_носителей_саргатской_культуры .JPG

Sargat battle armour:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7e/Реконструкция_доспехов_саргата.JPG


So we can be sure there's Mongoloid elements but given the reconstructions I think they are no more than 1/4 or 1/3 Mongoloid.

"The studies of some paleoanthropological data revealed a long-term infiltration of the taiga low-skull Mongoloid elements into the population bearing the Sargat culture (Bagashev, 2000) " <---- this combined with the haplogroup studies.

[Harkonnen]

So we can be sure there's Mongoloid elements but given the reconstructions I think they are no more than 1/4 or 1/3 Mongoloid.

"The studies of some paleoanthropological data revealed a long-term infiltration of the taiga low-skull Mongoloid elements into the population bearing the Sargat culture (Bagashev, 2000) " <---- this combined with the haplogroup studies.

Yes the original Uralics had high and broad foreheads -> then they migrated to Siberia and mixed with lowskulled Siberians.

[ButlerKing]

Yes the original Uralics had high and broad foreheads -> then they migrated to Siberia and mixed with lowskulled Siberians.

Original Uralics were Mongoloid who mixed with Indo-Europeans ..... look at the directions of the Sargat culture. Haplogroup N spread from Southern China to north Siberia to central asia to Europe.


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/71/Prehistoric_migration_routes_for_Y-chromosome_haplogroup_N_lineage.png

[Harkonnen]

Original Uralics were Mongoloid who mixed with Indo-Europeans ..... look at the directions of the Sargat culture.


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/71/Prehistoric_migration_routes_for_Y-chromosome_haplogroup_N_lineage.png

This map is not about Sargat culture. It's from a study which I already proved to be faulty. Sargat culture spread from Volga to Siberia. It now looks like the original Sargat people had higher percentage of N1c1 than modern Siberian Ugrians and also were racially Europid -> obvious conclusion is that modern Siberian Ugrics are autosomally largely Native Siberian with some European blood from their Ugric ancestors.