Should South Tyrol be returned to Austria?

[Bobby Martnen]

I think it should, for ethnic, linguistic, and cultural reasons.

https://img00.deviantart.net/b899/i/2016/276/3/f/austria_with_south_tyrol_by_arminius1871-dajr8f6.png

[TheForeigner]

It was a mistake and an injustice to rob Austria of it. I don't hate Italians or anything though. It was the fault of the political leaders of the great powers which won in ww1.

[Bobby Martnen]

It was a mistake and an injustice to rob Austria of it. I don't hate Italians or anything though. It was the fault of the political leaders of the great powers which won in ww1.

The post-WWI peace treaties were probably the biggest set of fuck-ups in human history. They irritated everyone, satisfied no one, and cause another war 20 years later. SAD!

[TheForeigner]

The post-WWI peace treaties were probably the biggest set of fuck-ups in human history. They irritated everyone, satisfied no one, and cause another war 20 years later. SAD!

Hm, that is not entirely true. They also recognized the independence of new nation states in Europe and other countries like Romania took back lands peopled by their own people.

[Bobby Martnen]

Hm, that is not entirely true. They also recognized the independence of new nation states in Europe and other countries like Romania took back lands peopled by their own people.

There were some good parts, but mostly it just pissed all of the major powers off. Germany was humiliated but not neutralized, France was devastated by the war and didn't get to punish Germany as harshly as they like, Germany and Poland both wanted Danzig.

The victorious powers created a powder keg, and then they were surprised when it erupted 20 years later.

[GiCa]

Not again..

..

....


In the past they were romance speaking before the migration of Bavarians there

I m AFAIK that they fit well in Italy.. Being always those regions hibrid romance-germanic

[Bobby Martnen]

Not again..

..

....


In the past they were romance speaking before the migration of Bavarians there

I m AFAIK that they fit well in Italy.. Being always those regions hibrid romance-germanic

They're Austrians in every sense except politically...

And FYI, I'm part Italian myself, and support Italian annexation of Corsica.

[GiCa]

They're Austrians in every sense except politically...

And FYI, I'm part Italian myself, and support Italian annexation of Corsica.

They are happy to stay with us.. Recently Austria made a law for alto Adige to have double citizenship; TV interview them and they said they didn t want Austrian citizenship

They love to stay with us. And that territory have been romance speaking before it was Germanic speaking

[Bobby Martnen]

They are happy to stay with us.. Recently Austria made a law for alto Adige to have double citizenship; TV interview them and they said they didn t want Austrian citizenship

They love to stay with us. And that territory have been romance speaking before it was Germanic speaking

:picard2:

They cherrypicked people, Austria is very popular in South Tyrol.

Why should South Tyrol stay with Italy, a country it has no ethnolinguistic ties to?

South Tyroleans are literally genetically closer to Finns than they are to Sicilians.

[Percivalle]

:picard2:

They cherrypicked people, Austria is very popular in South Tyrol.

Why should South Tyrol stay with Italy, a country it has no ethnolinguistic ties to?

South Tyroleans are literally genetically closer to Finns than they are to Sicilians.

You know nothing about South Tyrol, and they are not close to Finns. Genetically south Tyroleans aren't very distant from the Italian Trentini.

[Bobby Martnen]

You know nothing about South Tyrol, and they are not close to Finns. Genetically south Tyroleans aren't very distant from the Italian Trentini.

They aren't close to Finns, but they're even farther from Sicilians and other South and Central Italians.

There is a clear divide between them and even North Italians.

[Thordis]

People in Austria generally consider the South Tyroleans their kin, to a certain extent Austrians feel closer to them than they do to Northern Germans, for example. In fact most Austrians (89% according to a survey (http://www.thelocal.at/20150126/austrians-in-favour-of-unification-with-south-tyrol) from 2015) would support an independence referdum for South Tyrol and many would even welcome the region as part of their country:


A survey carried out by the Linz-based market research institute Spectra, and commissioned by South Tyrol’s Heimatbund, showed that 89 percent of Austrians are also in favour of South Tyrol becoming part of Austria. Out of 1,000 people questioned, 83 percent said they would be in favour of South Tyrolians having dual Austrian and Italian citizenship.

Heimatbund is an association of former South Tyrolian activists who are in favour of forming a new country together with the Austrian state of Tyrol. West Austrians, who live closer to South Tyrol, were less in favour of a new independent country than East Austrians.

More recently, Austrian vice-chancellor Heinz-Christian Strache (https://www.euractiv.com/section/all/news/austrian-nationalist-calls-for-referendum-on-tyrol-unification/) has also supported the idea of a referendum on a "common Tyrol" and has signalled his intention to campaign to bring it about. Last year, the new government also proposed offering passports (https://www.euractiv.com/section/justice-home-affairs/news/italy-up-in-arms-over-austria-passport-offer-to-south-tyrol-residents/) to German-speaking residents of South Tyrol. Italians didn't like this move too much.

South Tyroleans too, although having Italian citizenship still generally see themselves as Austro-German. German language and culture are still very much alive in the region. It is, in fact, one of the enclaves where ethnic German heritage and consciousness have been best preserved. The region is bilingual, and citizens' ID cards are different from the rest of Italy's - they are green and written in both languages. Children go to separate schools according to their mother tongue. Ethnic Germans make up the majority in the area.

Map revealing the dominant language, which largely correlates with ethnic background:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/05/Language_distribution_in_South_Tyrol%2C_Italy_2011 %2C_en.png/800px-Language_distribution_in_South_Tyrol%2C_Italy_2011 %2C_en.png

However most of this preservation has been a common folk initiative. Despite German being an official language, there's at times a lack of German-speaking employees in courts, police headquarters and other public offices. Hence South Tyroleans have been campaigning for rights and battling what they call "linguistic imperialism".

A survey (https://www.theguardian.com/education/2014/may/30/south-tyrol-live-in-italy-feel-austrian) launched by the separatist party Süd-Tiroler Freiheit (https://suedtiroler-freiheit.com/) registered a result of 90% in favor of self-determination. The percentage includes both those who want independence, and those who would rather join Austria. Unfortunately the referendum was not binding, because the main party in the Parliament, the SVP (South Tyrolean People's Party) prefers autonomy within the Italian Republic.

This is how some South Tyroleans describe their identity:


"We don't identify ourselves with the Italian flag". "It symbolizes the abuses we had to endure from a state that occupied our territory and tried to destroy our identity. But we've got nothing against Italy's people. Simply, the only Italian thing I've got is my ID card."

"My dream is to reunite with Austria. I'm an Italian citizen but don't belong to the Italian culture, state nor language. I have a Tyrolese identity. In my cultural backpack there's Schiller."

"We want one Tyrol, one country, independent from Austria," pensioner Lorenz Mayer, 65, told AFP, showing off a "Suedtirol wird frei!" ("South Tyrol will be free!") sticker he keeps in his wallet.

This sentiment has particularly been exacerbated when Austria erected a temporary border (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/31/austrian-border-plan-risks-turning-south-tyrol-into-emblem-of-eu-disintegration) crossing in the town of Brenner amid the European refugee crisis. The area become a gateway from Italy to northern Europe for thousands of people from the Middle East and Africa. Unfortunately, South Tyroleans also had to suffer the consequences. Since both countries have been in the EU, the border that runs through the Alpine Brenner pass had become almost indiscernible in the last 20 years. This somewhat prevented South Tyroleans from feeling reminder of their separation from Austria on a daily basis.


“It is something that strongly touches us and is felt in the heart when we here see a a new border to the fatherland going up in this way,” says Martha Stocker, the provincial official in charge of migration and health.

“After the border opened, you didn’t have the feeling anymore that we were somehow boxed-in in this state and that we are another nationality. And now suddenly that we are closing it once more, one feels boxed-in again.”

It sadly opens an old wound and reminds of a past era which almost lead to their dissolution. South Tyroleans, not much unlike the Swiss, place a good deal of importance on autonomy. After its annexation, South Tyrol became a project of italianization, where ethnic Germans became second class citizens and their organisations, centers, clubs, papers, were dissolved, forcing them to establish "underground" schools where German language was taught. Mussolini supported and continued this process and together with Hitler agreed to give the South Tyroleans two options: stay and become italianized or move to the Reich. The Dableiber, those who did not wish to leave, were considered traitors. Despite the fact that the immigration option helped to preserve their German language and ethnos, it essentially robbed them of their soil. The plan didn't go much further though, as WWII broke out. So that was a pretty hard blow the preservation of their regional identity which time and again seems to be compromised.

Economically speaking, South Tyrol is not faring too bad. Trade, tourism and agriculture have made the local economy flourish. The unemployment rate is consequently quite low. The main city, Bozen, is one of Italy's richest cities and boasts its highest quality of life. It is also culturally well developed, a medieval jewel of picturesque alleys, arched galleries, colorful and frescoed chalets, also great wines. However, as South Tyroleans themselves admit, money doesn't buy happiness, and autonomy isn't necessarily enough.

Wall posters cry out "Süd-Tirol ist nicht Italien!" ("South Tyrol is not Italian!")

https://andreasgrosse.files.wordpress.com/2016/07/sc3bcdtirol-ist-nicht-italien-brenner.jpg?w=730&h=547

[Smeagol]

Yes and then Austria should be reunited with Germany.

[renaissance12]

Yes and then Austria should be reunited with Germany.

And next holy roman Empire

[The Lawspeaker]

Yes. It should be Austrian. No Germanics should live under foreign rule.

[gıulıoımpa]

declare war already instead of arguing on a forum?

[Blondie]

Yes, i voted for it: "It should be reunited with Austria"

[MinervaItalica]

I like these threads.

I don't see the reasons why should return to Austria... besides no one in Alto Adige want to secede, they love all the privileges they get with Italy. They are already an autonomous region and this should be enough.

[JMack]

Tyrol should be an independent nation.

[renaissance12]

Yes. It should be Austrian. No Germanics should live under foreign rule.

And no germanic should live in Triveneto territory...:cool:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-3IeifIFWJNE/VVodAYpCmUI/AAAAAAAAArU/y4gHLMFmkaA/s1600/triveneto33.jpg


The climate is crazy.... Where i live ( prealpi Venete) in march there was no rain ( really strange )... Yesterday and the day before Yesterday... 350 mm of rain...

[Mortimer]

I dont think so. But they maintain their culture and close ties to Austria, they have minority protection and thats good.

[renaissance12]

I dont think so. But they maintain their culture and close ties to Austria, they have minority protection and thats good.

A place where they eat "polenta" has to belong to Veneto.... before the "bavarians" there were my Venetian ancestors living in the Adige river valley...

[Mortimer]

A place where they eat "polenta" has to belong to Veneto.... before the "bavarians" there were my Venetian ancestors living in the Adige river valley...

I did said it is italy. But the population there has minority protection they shouldnt be discriminated.

[renaissance12]

I did said it is italy. But the population there has minority protection they shouldnt be discriminated.


No body is discriminated in Italy...

[The Lawspeaker]

And no germanic should live in Triveneto territory...:cool:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-3IeifIFWJNE/VVodAYpCmUI/AAAAAAAAArU/y4gHLMFmkaA/s1600/triveneto33.jpg


The climate is crazy.... Where i live ( prealpi Venete) in march there was no rain ( really strange )... Yesterday and the day before Yesterday... 350 mm of rain...

They were living there before you came. So it's time to split it.

[Ülev]

quite hard question for my new username :rolleyes:

[MinervaItalica]

I did said it is italy. But the population there has minority protection they shouldnt be discriminated.

German minority is no even near discriminated in Alto Adige. On the contrary, they have many privileges. Too many IMHO.


They were living there before you came. So it's time to split it.

Who are you referring? Hardly Germanics lived there before Celtics and Adriatic Veneti.

[The Lawspeaker]

Who are you referring? Hardly Germanics lived there before Celtics and Adriatic Veneti.

But those living there speak a Germanic language. Stick to the Lowlands the Veneto and Lombardy. That's, traditionally, your area.

[MinervaItalica]

But those living there speak a Germanic language. Stick to the Lowlands the Veneto and Lombardy. That's, traditionally, your area.

I don't understand to who you're referring, can you post some links and sources?

[The Lawspeaker]

I don't understand to who you're referring, can you post some links and sources?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/44/German1910.png

This is where the language would have been spoken in 1910.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/05/Language_distribution_in_South_Tyrol%2C_Italy_2011 %2C_en.png

And in 2011. I always wondered why the Italians wanted South Tyrol eventhough it's a German-speaking area. And I think it's just to spite the Austrians after World War II. To rub their noses in it that they stabbed their former partners in the back.

As for the overall area (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trentino-Alto_Adige/S%C3%BCdtirol#Languages).

The main language groups are Italian and German, with small minorities speaking Ladin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ladin_language), Mòcheno (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%B2cheno_language) and Cimbrian (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cimbrian_language). The latter two are Bavarian (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bavarian_language) dialects.[21] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trentino-Alto_Adige/S%C3%BCdtirol#cite_note-21)
In Trentino the majority language is Italian, although there are Cimbrian minorities in the municipality of Luserna (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luserna) and four Mòcheno municipalities in the Mòcheni Valley (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valle_dei_M%C3%B2cheni). There are also Ladin-speaking minorities living in the Fassa Valley (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fassa_Valley) and in Non Valley (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non_Valley) (3.5% of the population). While in Fassa Valley Ladin already enjoys official status, in Non Valley it still does not, in spite of the fact that the number of speakers outnumbers those in Fassa Valley. Sole Valley (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sole_Valley) also historically belongs to the Ladin area.


In South Tyrol the majority language is German (69% of the population), although in the capital city Bolzano (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolzano) 73% of the population speaks Italian as its maternal language due to internal immigration from other regions of Italy.[22] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trentino-Alto_Adige/S%C3%BCdtirol#cite_note-22) Italian speakers are also a significant component in other major urban centres of the province, such as in Merano (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merano) (49% Italian as the mother language) and Brixen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brixen) (26% mother language).[23] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trentino-Alto_Adige/S%C3%BCdtirol#cite_note-23) More than 90% of the 120,000 Italian speakers live in Bozen/Balzano, Merano, Leifers and Brixen, and the greater part of the rest in the small towns south of the capital just north of the border with Trento province or scattered about in very small numbers throughout the rest of the province. The Italian language is a majority in 5 of 116 municipalities. Italian is the first language of 26% of the population (down from 35% in 1960) of the population of 453,000 recorded in the 2011 census, not counting the 51,000 who listed Language as 'Other' who are immigrants. Ladin is the additional official language in some municipalities and a majority in 8. According to the census of 2001, 103 out of 116 communes have a majority of German native speakers, eight of Ladin speakers and five of Italian. Today both German and Italian have the status of co-official languages (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Official_languages) in South Tyrol.

[JMack]

But those living there speak a Germanic language. Stick to the Lowlands the Veneto and Lombardy. That's, traditionally, your area.

Language group is irrelevant imo. Italian and German speaking Tyroleans generally consider themselves to be the same ethnicity (and of course Tyroleans aren't ''Italians''). Actually all these attempts to ''Austrianize'' or ''Italianize'' Tyrol are ridiculous and are made mostly to erase Tyrolean identity. These people share a similar common culture for one thousand years. Even parts of Veneto and Friuli share aspects of this culture.

There's a ''Dolomitic'' or ''Alpine'' culture and identity shared between these groups; all of them descend in different proportions from Celts, Cimbrians, Bavarians and Italic peoples.

[The Lawspeaker]

Language group is irrelevant imo. Italian and German speaking Tyroleans generally consider themselves to be the same ethnicity (and of course Tyroleans aren't ''Italians''). Actually all these attempts to ''Austrianize'' or ''Italianize'' Tyrol are ridiculous and are made mostly to erase Tyrolean identity. These people share a similar common culture for one thousand years. Even parts of Veneto and Friuli share aspects of this culture.

There's a ''Dolomitic'' or ''Alpine'' culture and identity shared between these groups; all of them descend in different proportions from Celts, Cimbrians, Bavarians and Italic peoples.
I'd say that that culture would be better off then in either Austria or Switzerland as Latin cultures are less inclined to honour local traditions (as France has shown but also Spain and Italy) and force an imperial set culture on them. They would be a part of Austria and able to maintain their own culture rather than having Rome move in Italians and force out their own ways. Something like the Frisians would never have survived in either Spain, France or Italy.

[Ülev]

ones and anothers, please do not destroy the core of Europe

picture/map - Europe at night (https://www.google.com/search?q=Europe+At+Night+%E2%80%93+Brilliant+Maps&tbm=isch&source=univ&client=firefox-b-d&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiU7_m_jLzhAhVEpYsKHRdWDzsQsAR6BAgJEAE&biw=1536&bih=750#imgrc=mEv2oVp8CMg9XM:)

nice axis, from London, through Amsterdam to Rome

:rolleyes:

[Papastratosels26]

No.

[Teutone]

who cares, they dont get opressed, can keep their language and italians are friends not enemies. the times where regions switched in west europe is over. No more brother wars.

[The Lawspeaker]

who cares, they dont get opressed, can keep their language and italians are friends not enemies. the times where regions switched in west europe is over. No more brother wars.

And how do you think the French treat the Flemish or the speaks of Alsatian ?

[Teutone]

And how do you think the French treat the Flemish or the speaks of Alsatian ?

Could be worse, I dont see seperation as a 21st century solution. I respect and like French people as any western european nation.

[JMack]

I'd say that that culture would be better off then in either Austria or Switzerland as Latin cultures are less inclined to honour local traditions (as France has shown but also Spain and Italy) and force an imperial set culture on them. They would be a part of Austria and able to maintain their own culture rather than having Rome move in Italians and force out their own ways. Something like the Frisians would never have survived in either Spain, France or Italy.

Agreed.

Some type of Imperial System is the solution not only for Tyrol but for many other European regions imo. Europe can only survive in an imperial federation of nations. If you guys stay this way Americanisation will continue to increase, nigrants will roam around freelly and European culture will die out because Europe will become weak.

[Tacitus]

"Should South Tyrol be returned to Austria?"

*bloccs ur path*
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/46/5a/ce/465aceb2bab73443deca36b85b7b702a.jpg

[The Lawspeaker]

Agreed.

Some type of Imperial System is the solution not only for Tyrol but for many other European regions imo. Europe can only survive in an imperial federation of nations. If you guys stay this way Americanisation will continue to increase, nigrants will roam around freelly and Europe culture will die out because Europe will become weak.

Imperialism is a dangerous thing. I believe in confederations. Germanic confederations.

[The Lawspeaker]

"Should South Tyrol be returned to Austria?"

*bloccs ur path*
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/46/5a/ce/465aceb2bab73443deca36b85b7b702a.jpg

Like in the last wars:

https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Captured-Italian-soldiers-are-escorted-to-the-rear-by-German-soldiers-during-the-Battle-of-Caporetto-1917-small.jpg





The Italian Army should be the least of our fears. The local finances after they've left, now that's something else.

[The Lawspeaker]

Could be worse, I dont see seperation as a 21st century solution. I respect and like French people as any western european nation.

That respect only goes one way.

[MinervaItalica]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/44/German1910.png

This is where the language would have been spoken in 1910.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/05/Language_distribution_in_South_Tyrol%2C_Italy_2011 %2C_en.png

And in 2011. I always wondered why the Italians wanted South Tyrol eventhough it's a German-speaking area. And I think it's just to spite the Austrians after World War II. To rub their noses in it that they stabbed their former partners in the back.

But you're talking about recent centuries... because no way Germanic people came in those lands before other Italic people and Celts. Triveneto has been part of the Venetian Republic before the Austrian Empire.

Anyway, just a reminder: Italy gained Alto Adige since the end of WWI not WWII after have defeated the Austrians. I'm sorry but this is war. The Austrians gained (not even conquered) and ruled territories that were Italian in the past so...
Plus no one there want to secede, only those minor parties who are not even active anymore. Recently there have been interviews with local population about this multiple citizenship (Austria/Italy) and the interviewed were even sceptical.

Just a note: the red area of the map is the most important area: Bolzano/Bozen and that is Italian majority.

[The Lawspeaker]

But you're talking about recent centuries... because no way Germanic people came in those lands before other Italic people and Celts. Triveneto has been part of the Venetian Republic before the Austrian Empire.

Anyway, just a reminder: Italy gained Alto Adige since the end of WWI not WWII after have defeated the Austrians. I'm sorry but this is war. The Austrians gained (not even conquered) and ruled territories that were Italian in the past so...
Plus no one there want to secede, only those minor parties who are not even active anymore. Recently there have been interview with local population about this multiple citizenship (Austria/Italy) and the interviewed were even sceptical.

Just a note the red area of the map is the most important area: Bolzano/Bozen and that is Italian majority.

Italian only because you moved your people in there to control it. And what was won in one war can always be lost in another. And of course the Italians would doctor the results of such interviews and throw-away the majority of those they speak to in order to mask any irredentist feelings. They wouldn't want to be seen like an occupier.

[Tacitus]

Like in the last wars:

https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Captured-Italian-soldiers-are-escorted-to-the-rear-by-German-soldiers-during-the-Battle-of-Caporetto-1917-small.jpg





The Italian Army should be the least of our fears. The local finances after they've left, now that's something else.

I for one am looking forward to the upcoming Italo-Dutch War determining the fate of, *ahem* Alto Adige.

See you at the front! :thumb001:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzmlzBB7FPs

[The Lawspeaker]

I for one am looking forward to the upcoming Italo-Dutch War determining the fate of, *ahem* Alto Adige.

See you at the front! :thumb001:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzmlzBB7FPs

It should be an entire Germanic confederation. See how that goes for you. Particularly in the state Italy is in. Even you live abroad in a Germanic country because Italy has a shit economy.

[MinervaItalica]

Even you live abroad in a Germanic country because Italy has a shit economy.

Italy's economy gone shit after we joined this EU ruled by France and Germany. Two countries that are privileged unlike others inside the Union. Plus i don't think Italy's economy is so bad like biased media say. After all we are still an economic and manufacturing power.

[The Lawspeaker]

Italy's economy gone shit after we joined this EU ruled by France and Germany. Two countries that are privileged unlike others inside the Union. Plus i don't think Italy's economy is so bad like biased media say. After all we are still an economic and manufacturing power.

That's only the North. Thanks to the semi-Germanic Lombards. The South isn't going anywhere. As for France being privileged ? Yeah. They definitely are. Germany ? Germany had to give up its army and currency and place itself, effectively, under French stewardship in order to be reunited with the East.

As for Tacitus' Rep point; the United States are a Germanic country. The majority of its population is of German descent, it was founded with a majority British, Dutch and Swedish population, using British common law as its basis and taking from English and Dutch legal traditions. Yes: it's a Germanic country.

[MinervaItalica]

That's only the North. Thanks to the semi-Germanic Lombards. The South isn't going anywhere.

Now, now... I don't see what Lombards have to do about Italian economy... :confused: Besides, Lombards were also in the South...
I'm sorry but like it's true that there are regional differences, like in other EU countries (Germany too), Italy is one country. Unfortunately after years of leftist rule who did nothing for the South it seems that the actual goverment is working to make it more productive, it's an hard task because the South is very rural but if it starts growing we will easily surpass countries such as France and UK like we did in the past.


Germany ? Germany had to give up its army and currency and place itself, effectively, under French stewardship in order to be reunited with the East.

Yes Germany, read about their trade surplus. :rolleyes:

German banks got helped by other EU members money during the Crisis, this is why they recovered faster than others. Italy used his own people money for its own banks.

[Ayetooey]

No I support Italy's territorial integrity.

[The Lawspeaker]

Now, now... I don't see what Lombards have to do about Italian economy... :confused: Besides, Lombards were also in the South...
I'm sorry but like it's true that there are regional differences, like in other EU countries (Germany too), Italy is one country. Unfortunately after years of leftist rule who did nothing for the South it seems that the actual goverment is working to make it more productive, it's an hard task because the South is very rural but if it starts growing we will easily surpass countries such as France and UK like we did in the past.
That won't happen. The South's social structure is essentially feudal so with that level of corruption: forget it. It will stay backward for hundreds of years.

[MinervaItalica]

That won't happen. The South's social structure is essentially feudal so with that level of corruption: forget it. It will stay backward for hundreds of years.

East Germany was considered backward as Southern Italy yet it recovered (while still backward compared to the West). UK economy will change soon.

I'm sorry but everything change.

[The Lawspeaker]

I'm sorry but everything change.

Except for Southern Italy. That simply won't change.

[MinervaItalica]

Except for Southern Italy. That simply won't change.

Bet whatever you want.

[renaissance12]

Except for Southern Italy. That simply won't change.

https://vivicentro.it/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/13.jpg