View Full Version : Closest modern day populations to CHG & EHG?
Kouros
02-21-2018, 09:03 PM
So we know that the Yamna culture was genetically something like 50% CHG + 50% EHG. What two populations are the closest to Eastern Hunter Gatherer and Caucasus Hunter Gatherer respectively?
Also, I'm confused. What happened to ANE? Is it absorbed in the 'CHG' ancestry?
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-OQjovXBnIK0/VknYxQ5FkSI/AAAAAAAAKM8/49uS0aE0Nj8/s1600/ncomms9912-f1.jpg
EHG probably Lithuanians.
CHG Georgians and North Caucasians.
Kouros
02-21-2018, 09:10 PM
EHG probably Lithuanians.
CHG Georgians and North Caucasians.
And the ANE ancestry in Yamna people came from CHG correct? Or both?
And the ANE ancestry in Yamna people came from CHG correct? Or both?
Both, but more from EHG, I suppose.
And the ANE ancestry in Yamna people came from CHG correct? Or both?
probably both.
Harkonnen
02-21-2018, 09:14 PM
Siberians are closest to EHG.
Kouros
02-21-2018, 09:16 PM
Siberians are closest to EHG.
Do you have a PCA plot or the study that I can read by any chance?
Harkonnen
02-21-2018, 09:19 PM
So we know that the Yamna culture was genetically something like 50% CHG + 50% EHG. What two populations are the closest to Eastern Hunter Gatherer and Caucasus Hunter Gatherer respectively?
Also, I'm confused. What happened to ANE? Is it absorbed in the 'CHG' ancestry?
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-OQjovXBnIK0/VknYxQ5FkSI/AAAAAAAAKM8/49uS0aE0Nj8/s1600/ncomms9912-f1.jpg
This PCA is probably one of those where the ancient genomes are projected on top of modern ones. It doesn't mean very much.
Hadouken
02-21-2018, 09:33 PM
CHG - Abkhazians and Circassians
EHG - probably Ukrainians
Kouros
02-21-2018, 09:41 PM
CHG - Abkhazians and Circassians
EHG - probably Ukrainians
Siberians are closest to EHG.
Do you guys know where I can read any of the papers or blogposts that conclude this?
Hadouken
02-21-2018, 09:47 PM
Do you guys know where I can read any of the papers or blogposts that conclude this?
well you can at least see on calculators like dodecad k12b that the caucasus component peaks in west georgians and adygheans
the Caucasus Hunter Gatherer genome was taken from a remnant in Georgia
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3320218/Missing-piece-Europe-s-hunter-gatherer-ancestry-discovered-Group-settled-Caucasus-45-000-years-ago-left-genetic-mark-modern-Europeans.html
here Kotias CHG gedmatch Kit Nr. - M411747 , M603839
Satsurbila CHG - M677694
Kouros
02-21-2018, 09:50 PM
well you can at least see on calculators like dodecad k12b that the caucasus component peaks in west georgians and adygheans
the Caucasus Hunter Gatherer genome was taken from a remnant in Georgia
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3320218/Missing-piece-Europe-s-hunter-gatherer-ancestry-discovered-Group-settled-Caucasus-45-000-years-ago-left-genetic-mark-modern-Europeans.html
here Kotias CHG gedmatch Kit Nr. - M411747 , M603839
Satsurbila CHG - M677694
Thx mane
Hadouken
02-21-2018, 09:55 PM
btw. the CHG samples score high Gedrosia too . gedrosia is also CHG related but it confuses me a bit
I am not knowledged to know
Pahli
02-21-2018, 10:06 PM
btw. the CHG samples score high Gedrosia too . gedrosia is also CHG related but it confuses me a bit
I am not knowledged to know
Gedrosia is a made up component which consists of mostly CHG and some South Asian
Anyways, CHG is 50% ANE and EHG is 75% ANE and 25% WHG I think
Kouros
02-21-2018, 10:14 PM
Gedrosia is a made up component which consists of mostly CHG and some South Asian
Anyways, CHG is 50% ANE and EHG is 75% ANE and 25% WHG I think
What's the other half of CHG (50% ANE + 50% ?)
Not a Cop
02-21-2018, 10:25 PM
What's the other half of CHG (50% ANE + 50% ?)
ENF, although i think that proportions may be wrong, in my memmory CHG is 80% ENF, 20 ANE. ENG is 2\3 WHG, 1\3 ANE, although i may not be correct.
Mingle
02-21-2018, 10:26 PM
Gedrosia is a made up component which consists of mostly CHG and some South Asian
Where did you hear that?
Pahli
02-21-2018, 10:39 PM
Where did you hear that?
Its related to Iran_Neolithic or something, but its just a mix of dominantly CHG and some South Asian, I am pretty sure.
Mingle
02-21-2018, 10:46 PM
Its related to Iran_Neolithic or something, but its just a mix of dominantly CHG and some South Asian, I am pretty sure.
Gedrosia and Iran_Neolithic are synonyms. But this is the first time I've heard that it's not a real component, so I'm just curious where you heard that.
Pahli
02-21-2018, 11:09 PM
Gedrosia and Iran_Neolithic are synonyms. But this is the first time I've heard that it's not a real component, so I'm just curious where you heard that.
Because Iran_Neolithic is basically just CHG + some South Asian, so its kinda made up out of two already existing components
Mingle
02-21-2018, 11:12 PM
Because Iran_Neolithic is basically just CHG + some South Asian
Yeah, but how do you know that though.
jingorex
02-21-2018, 11:15 PM
is there a gedmatch test for finding these results for my kit?
Pahli
02-21-2018, 11:17 PM
Yeah, but how do you know that though.
Because Gedrosia is based on some kind of Brahui sample:
http://i39.tinypic.com/bhhkwy.jpg
And Brahuis are basically Iran_Neo with extra South Asian if we look at the samples we have
Kouros
02-21-2018, 11:17 PM
is there a gedmatch test for finding these results for my kit?
well you can at least see on calculators like dodecad k12b that the caucasus component peaks in west georgians and adygheans
the Caucasus Hunter Gatherer genome was taken from a remnant in Georgia
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3320218/Missing-piece-Europe-s-hunter-gatherer-ancestry-discovered-Group-settled-Caucasus-45-000-years-ago-left-genetic-mark-modern-Europeans.html
here Kotias CHG gedmatch Kit Nr. - M411747 , M603839
Satsurbila CHG - M677694
Is this what you're looking for?
zarzian
02-21-2018, 11:18 PM
So much garbage replies in the thread. CHG itself is derived from Iran Neolithic type Ancestry https://www.biorxiv.org/content/early/2016/06/16/059311 along with a slight EHG type ancestry.
The source of this type of ancestry (CHG, IranN, Gedrosia, West Aian, etc) is the paleolithic Zarzian culture from Iran. This is where Y-DNA J originates from.
Mingle
02-21-2018, 11:21 PM
Because Gedrosia is based on some kind of Brahui sample:
http://i39.tinypic.com/bhhkwy.jpg
And Brahuis are basically Iran_Neo with extra South Asian if we look at the samples we haveBrahuis were modeled that way before the recent discovery of Iran_Neolithic. Now it turns out that the main component in Baloches and Brahuis is Iran_N not CHG.
It was discovered only in 2016 in Zagros I believe: http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2016/06/another-ancient-genome-from-iran-coming.html
So much garbage replies in the thread. CHG itself is derived from Iran Neolithic type Ancestry https://www.biorxiv.org/content/early/2016/06/16/059311 along with a slight EHG type ancestry.
The source of this type of ancestry (CHG, IranN, Gedrosia, West Aian, etc) is the paleolithic Zarzian culture from Iran. This is where Y-DNA J originates from.
But you guys aren't the ''purest''/peak of CHGs in the world (North Caucasians are). That was the question of the OP.
Saying Persians/Iranians should be used as example for CHGs is like saying Punjabis should be used as example for Yamnaya, lol.
zarzian
02-21-2018, 11:26 PM
But you guys aren't the ''purest''/peak of CHGs in the world (North Caucasians are). That was the question of the OP.
Saying Persians/Iranians should be used as example for CHGs is like saying Punjabis should be used as example for Yamnaya, lol.
Are you some sort of a schizophrenic? When did I say Persians/Iranians should be used in place of CHG. You did not understand anything I wrote if that is what you interpreted.
Are you some sort of a schizophrenic? When did I say Persians/Iranians should be used in place of CHG. You did not understand anything I wrote if that is what you interpreted.
It seemed you were trying to say Iranians are the closest ones to ''proto CHG'' people. That's not true.
But I may have misunderstood you.
Pahli
02-21-2018, 11:36 PM
So much garbage replies in the thread. CHG itself is derived from Iran Neolithic type Ancestry https://www.biorxiv.org/content/early/2016/06/16/059311 along with a slight EHG type ancestry.
The source of this type of ancestry (CHG, IranN, Gedrosia, West Aian, etc) is the paleolithic Zarzian culture from Iran. This is where Y-DNA J originates from.
Well, if you look at the Iran Mesolithic, it looks like CHG that is slightly Iran Neolithic shifted. Do we have any samples from the Zarzian culture?
Kouros
02-21-2018, 11:37 PM
So CHG in the Yamna culture is maternal, while EHG is paternal. It has to be because all the Y-DNA found in Yamna were R1 IIRC.
So much garbage replies in the thread. CHG itself is derived from Iran Neolithic type Ancestry https://www.biorxiv.org/content/early/2016/06/16/059311 along with a slight EHG type ancestry.
The source of this type of ancestry (CHG, IranN, Gedrosia, West Aian, etc) is the paleolithic Zarzian culture from Iran. This is where Y-DNA J originates from.
Other than the 'slight EHG type ancestry' that you've already noted is their any other difference? Or can we really just say that CHG = Iran Neolithic + slight EHG?
XenophobicPrussian
02-21-2018, 11:56 PM
CHG = Abhkasians
EHG = Erzya and Kargopol Russians. Every other answer is wrong.
Kouros
02-22-2018, 03:09 AM
bump
Zroota
06-11-2019, 09:13 AM
From what I read, Transcaucasians, or those from the South Caucasus.
Harkonnen
06-11-2019, 01:53 PM
EHG is closest to Siberians.
IMO a Western Georgian / Baltic (LT/LV) mix would be the closest. A very badass mix, if anyone has photos of a confirmed mix like that, please let me know :cool:
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