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View Full Version : Updated Sicilian/Greek islands Eurogenes K15 averages from my sample.. who can plot them on a PCA?


Sikeliot
03-02-2018, 04:40 AM
Only people with VERIFIED ancestry, 4 grandparents from one area.

Can someone plot on a PCA? Like the Eurogenes K15 PCA?

I created 2 Palermo clusters since there seems to be a subset of outliers in Palermo that go more toward the Trapani cluster. There are 55 Palermitans in my sample, and of these, 8 outliers who score 25% East Med or less, who I included separately as Palermo2.

Calabria: N = 24
North Sea: 7.38
Atlantic: 12.55
Baltic: 4.78
East Euro: 2.07
West Med: 18.24
West Asian: 15.63
East Med: 30.95
Red Sea: 6.17
South Asian: 0.09
SE Asian: 0.16
Siberian: 0.04
Amerindian: 0.10
Oceanian: 0.28
NE African: 0.91
SSA: 0.06


Campania: N = 10
North Sea: 11.18
Atlantic: 12.53
Baltic: 5.02
East Euro: 2.07
West Med: 17.75
West Asian: 15.04
East Med: 29.15
Red Sea: 5.88
South Asian: 0.4
SE Asian: 0.14
Siberian: 0.04
Amerindian: 0.15
Oceanian: 0.27
NE African: 0.36
SSA: 0.02

Apulia: N = 3
North Sea: 10.44
Atlantic: 14.40
Baltic: 8.14
East Euro: 2.76
West Med: 17.38
West Asian: 13.55
East Med: 27.49
Red Sea: 4.90
South Asian: 0
SE Asian: 0
Siberian: 0
Amerindian: 0.16
Oceanian: 0.46
NE African: 0.32
SSA: 0


Palermo1: N = 47
North Sea: 9.27
Atlantic: 13.64
Baltic: 4.68
East Euro: 1.89
West Med: 18.17
West Asian: 14.34
East Med: 29.41
Red Sea: 5.91
South Asian: 0.26
SE Asian: 0.25
Siberian: 0.04
Amerindian: 0.12
Oceanian: 0.23
NE African: 1.11
SSA: 0.69


Palermo2: N = 8
North Sea: 8.78
Atlantic: 16.69
Baltic: 4.54
East Euro: 2.05
West Med: 19.08
West Asian: 15.57
East Med: 24.08
Red Sea: 6.11
South Asian: 0.06
SE Asian: 0.07
Siberian: 0.14
Amerindian: 0.14
Oceanian: 0.30
NE African: 1.44
SSA: 0.94


Ragusa: N = 6
North Sea: 11.12
Atlantic: 12.93
Baltic: 4.73
East Euro: 2.63
West Med: 17.95
West Asian: 13.97
East Med: 27.54
Red Sea: 6.07
South Asian: 0.21
SE Asian: 0.04
Siberian: 0.37
Amerindian: 0.07
Oceanian: 0.17
NE African: 1.19
SSA: 1.02


Syracuse: N = 7
North Sea: 11
Atlantic: 15.57
Baltic: 4.67
East Euro: 2.10
West Med: 18.30
West Asian: 13.89
East Med: 27.23
Red Sea: 4.66
South Asian: 0.16
SE Asian: 0.31
Siberian: 0.18
Amerindian: 0
Oceanian: 0.23
NE African: 0.95
SSA: 0.75


Enna: N = 6
North Sea: 7.39
Atlantic: 16.93
Baltic: 4.77
East Euro: 1.83
West Med: 18.16
West Asian: 12.71
East Med: 29.27
Red Sea: 6.38
South Asian: 0.3
SE Asian: 0.15
Siberian: 0.02
Amerindian: 0
Oceanian: 0.39
NE African: 1.10
SSA: 0.59


Caltanissetta: N = 12
North Sea: 9.17
Atlantic: 14.82
Baltic: 4.89
East Euro: 1.43
West Med: 18.03
West Asian: 14.07
East Med: 28.22
Red Sea: 6.64
South Asian: 0.12
SE Asian: 0.12
Siberian: 0.15
Amerindian: 0.08
Oceanian: 0.37
NE African: 1.51
SSA: 0.38

Trapani: N = 29
North Sea: 11.70
Atlantic: 14.05
Baltic: 4.75
East Euro: 1.88
West Med: 18.94
West Asian: 13.03
East Med: 27.77
Red Sea: 5.58
South Asian: 0.30
SE Asian: 0.25
Siberian: 0.09
Amerindian: 0.03
Oceanian: 0.11
NE African: 1.09
SSA: 0.39


Messina: N = 30
North Sea: 8.21
Atlantic: 12.78
Baltic: 4.16
East Euro: 1.84
West Med: 18.56
West Asian: 14.77
East Med: 30.57
Red Sea: 6.29
South Asian: 0.14
SE Asian: 0.15
Siberian: 0.11
Amerindian: 0.05
Oceanian: 0.30
NE African: 1.39
SSA: 0.28


Catania: N = 22
North Sea: 8.42
Atlantic: 14.04
Baltic: 4.03
East Euro: 1.89
West Med: 18.05
West Asian: 14.97
East Med: 30.16
Red Sea: 5.57
South Asian: 0.26
SE Asian: 0.26
Siberian: 0.03
Amerindian: 0.15
Oceanian: 0.23
NE African: 1.42
SSA: 0.49


Agrigento: N = 12
North Sea: 9.18
Atlantic: 13.12
Baltic: 5.12
East Euro: 1.76
West Med: 18.22
West Asian: 13.22
East Med: 30.11
Red Sea: 5.65
South Asian: 0.81
SE Asian: 0.04
Siberian: 0.15
Amerindian: 0.24
Oceanian: 0.21
NE African: 1.32
SSA: 0.85


Crete: N = 8
North Sea: 7.86
Atlantic: 11.24
Baltic: 7.69
East Euro: 3.35
West Med: 16.21
West Asian: 16.67
East Med: 30.89
Red Sea: 4.89
South Asian: 0.01
SE Asian: 0.2
Siberian: 0.11
Amerindian: 0.07
Oceanian: 0.51
NE African: 0.26
SSA: 0.05

Cyclades: N = 7
North Sea: 8.17
Atlantic: 10.51
Baltic: 6.98
East Euro: 2.41
West Med: 17.09
West Asian: 16.26
East Med: 29.82
Red Sea: 5.93
South Asian: 0.19
SE Asian: 0.32
Siberian: 0.17
Amerindian: 0.19
Oceanian: 0.12
NE African: 0.24
SSA: 0.16

North Aegean: N = 31
North Sea: 8.54
Atlantic: 11.68
Baltic: 6.80
East Euro: 2.97
West Med: 15.92
West Asian: 17.84
East Med: 29.85
Red Sea: 5.29
South Asian: 0.34
SE Asian: 0.13
Siberian: 0.11
Amerindian: 0.10
Oceanian: 0.18
NE African: 0.22
SSA: 0.03

Dodecanese: N = 17
North Sea: 7.25
Atlantic: 9.38
Baltic: 6.14
East Euro: 2.86
West Med: 16.41
West Asian: 19.05
East Med: 31.88
Red Sea: 5.69
South Asian: 0.50
SE Asian: 0.28
Siberian: 0.10
Amerindian: 0.17
Oceanian: 0.17
NE African: 0.01
SSA: 0.03


North Greece: N = 11
North Sea: 12.86
Atlantic: 14.08
Baltic: 10.93
East Euro: 6.15
West Med: 16.26
West Asian: 12.92
East Med: 21.76
Red Sea: 3.10
South Asian: 0.03
SE Asian: 0.13
Siberian: 0.20
Amerindian: 0.23
Oceanian: 0.19
NE African: 0.15
SSA: 0.01

Central Greece: N = 2
North Sea: 15.12
Atlantic: 11.66
Baltic: 8.94
East Euro: 6.26
West Med: 18.07
West Asian: 13.07
East Med: 22.29
Red Sea: 3.18
South Asian: 0
SE Asian: 0.19
Siberian: 0.45
Amerindian: 0
Oceanian: 0.29
NE African: 0.41
SSA: 0.11


Peloponnese: N = 6
North Sea: 12.40
Atlantic: 13.34
Baltic: 9.40
East Euro: 5.32
West Med: 16.52
West Asian: 14.10
East Med: 24.44
Red Sea: 3.33
South Asian: 0.08
SE Asian: 0.6
Siberian: 0.10
Amerindian: 0.01
Oceanian: 0.27
NE African: 0.09
SSA: 0.00


Mani: N = 5
North Sea: 11.57
Atlantic: 11.96
Baltic: 11.58
East Euro: 4.89
West Med: 15.41
West Asian: 14.87
East Med: 25.36
Red Sea: 3.24
South Asian: 0.11
SE Asian: 0.19
Siberian: 0
Amerindian: 0.35
Oceanian: 0.17
NE African: 0.28
SSA: 0
Bobby Martnen
03-02-2018, 05:08 AM
Only people with VERIFIED ancestry, 4 grandparents from one area.

Can someone plot on a PCA? Like the Eurogenes K15 PCA?


I'd be happy to do this
Bobby Martnen
03-02-2018, 05:41 AM
Calculated coordinates for them all. Now off to plot them...

Calabria: (593, 472)
Campania: (585, 426)
Apulia: (551, 396)
Palermo1: (581, 451)
Palermo2: (548, 440)
Ragusa: (567, 442)
Syracuse: (550, 426)
Enna: (560, 448)
Caltanissetta: (570, 448)
Trapani: (550, 430)
Messina: (586, 473)
Catania: (591, 549)
Agrigento: (583, 457)
Crete: (626, 428)
Cyclades: (590, 482)
North Aegean: (627, 429)
Dodecanese: (664, 453)
Northern Greece: (510, 372)
Central Greece: (539, 352)
Peloponnese: (568, 366)
Mani: (576, 369)
Bobby Martnen
03-02-2018, 05:41 AM
Also, here's all of the Palermitan samples averaged together - including the 7 with lower East Med doesn't really change the average that much
PalermoAvg: (576, 449)
Bobby Martnen
03-02-2018, 06:10 AM
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=73013&d=1519974618

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=73014&d=1519974619
Sikeliot
03-02-2018, 11:29 AM
Are you sure Cyclades is in the right place? It looks too far down.
kleenex
03-02-2018, 11:35 AM
Bobby Martnen anyway you could plot my results (23 and me) on this PCA? If possible much thanks! Just curious how I compare to other Peloponnese sample.

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 22.88
2 Atlantic 19.64
3 West_Asian 15.07
4 West_Med 14.34
5 Baltic 11.57
6 North_Sea 10.11
7 Red_Sea 3.81
8 Eastern_Euro 2.37
9 Amerindian 0.2
Leto
03-02-2018, 02:36 PM
Everyone can do it
http://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/K15.htm
Bobby Martnen
03-02-2018, 03:14 PM
Are you sure Cyclades is in the right place? It looks too far down.

I'll double check in a little bit - I have some homework I have to do right now
Sikeliot
03-02-2018, 03:34 PM
Can you expand the plot to show the rest of Europe and Levant to see how the samples compare?
Sikeliot
03-02-2018, 03:50 PM
Crete and North Aegean have equal northern input as Trapani and Syracuse but it's NE input not NW. Interesting.

Most of Palermo, Agrigento, Messina, Catania and Calabria seem to be where the extra MENA is. They shift south. I'm surprised Cyclades are with them, I almost wonder if they're plotted correctly.

I'm also surprised Maniots are so far north. Their NE Euro inputs looked no less than any other mainlanders to me.
Tauromachos
03-02-2018, 03:53 PM
Crete and North Aegean have equal northern input as Trapani and Syracuse but it's NE input not NW. Interesting.

Most of Palermo, Agrigento, Messina, Catania and Calabria seem to be where the extra MENA is. They shift south. I'm surprised Cyclades are with them, I almost wonder if they're plotted correctly.

I'm also surprised Maniots are so far north. Their NE Euro inputs looked no less than any other mainlanders to me.


Is euogenes a professional scientific tool?

How much bugs do you get paid"by your boss" for making all these threads
brennus dux gallorum
03-02-2018, 03:57 PM
Crete and North Aegean have equal northern input as Trapani and Syracuse but it's NE input not NW. Interesting.

Most of Palermo, Agrigento, Messina, Catania and Calabria seem to be where the extra MENA is. They shift south. I'm surprised Cyclades are with them, I almost wonder if they're plotted correctly.

I'm also surprised Maniots are so far north. Their NE Euro inputs looked no less than any other mainlanders to me.

:confused:

In all Greek samples NW was significantly higher than NE, and in mainland samples NW was higher than in Sicilian samples.

Even Northern Greece which is promoted as "terribly NE" in this forum was not terribly more NE than Dodecanese, they both have similar components which indicates at least 70% common ancestry
Tauromachos
03-02-2018, 04:01 PM
:confused:

In all Greek samples NW was significantly higher than NE, and in mainland samples NW was higher than in Sicilian samples.

Even Northern Greece which is promoted as "terribly NE" in this forum was not terribly more NE than Dodecanese, they both have similar components



I wonder why none of the professional studies on the subject so far ever came up with the conclusion that
Continental Greeks are realy close to any Slavic group.

If they are so North Eastern


Neither in the other papers this is shown nor in the Sarno paper posted by Sikeliot himself
Sikeliot
03-02-2018, 05:09 PM
What was labeled abruzzo was Apulia. Both campania and Apulia plot north of Sicily or Calabria.

Campania is close to North Aegean and Crete.
Bobby Martnen
03-02-2018, 05:34 PM
Can you expand the plot to show the rest of Europe and Levant to see how the samples compare?

I'll try.
Bobby Martnen
03-02-2018, 05:37 PM
Are you sure Cyclades is in the right place? It looks too far down.

Cyclades is correct - I just double checked.
Bobby Martnen
03-02-2018, 05:41 PM
What was labeled abruzzo was Apulia.

Fixed

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=73028&d=1520016075
Bobby Martnen
03-02-2018, 05:43 PM
Can you expand the plot to show the rest of Europe and Levant to see how the samples compare?

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=73029&d=1520016191
Sikeliot
03-02-2018, 08:28 PM
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=73029&d=1520016191

The image isn't appearing for me.
Sikeliot
03-02-2018, 08:29 PM
I'm surprised Cyclades plot with Sicily but Crete doesn't.
Tauromachos
03-02-2018, 08:31 PM
I'm surprised Cyclades plot with Sicily but Crete doesn't.

Shows you only the reliabilty of these things and that it is to some degree accidental.

What samples to the use and how many people from each place?

I would bet depending on the samples you can get both Crete closer to Sicily or Cyclades closer
Sikeliot
03-02-2018, 11:36 PM
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=73029&d=1520016191

Upload the photo to imgur, photo bucket, or tinypic?
Bobby Martnen
03-02-2018, 11:38 PM
Upload the photo to imgur, photo bucket, or tinypic?

https://imgur.com/a/BCKcp
Bobby Martnen
03-02-2018, 11:39 PM
I'm surprised Cyclades plot with Sicily but Crete doesn't.

Cyclades sounds like some sort of menstrual related medication, TBH.

Off topic, but I'm curious: Sikeliot are you excited to almost be to 100K posts? I can't wait until I hit 10K
Sikeliot
03-02-2018, 11:42 PM
https://imgur.com/a/BCKcp

So when you look at it from a distance there is one large Sicily/Aegean islands/South Italy (except Apulia) cluster, even though up close they begin diverging. All of the Sicilians are closer to one another and the islands than any to mainland Greeks, and Apulia is more north plotting than even Syracuse/Trapani.
Tauromachos
03-02-2018, 11:44 PM
Cyclades sounds like some sort of menstrual related medication, TBH.

Off topic, but I'm curious: Sikeliot are you excited to almost be to 100K posts? I can't wait until I hit 10K

Sikeliot is excited because he has to do his Bar Mitzvah
Dimitri159
01-07-2022, 10:33 PM
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=73013&d=1519974618

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=73014&d=1519974619

How does Central Greece end up more far south than to Peloponnese/Mani?