Best Model on GedMatch for Brits?

[McLean]

My 23andme results brought out at 93% British and Irish, while my GedMatch results (using the Eurogenes K13 model) brought me out at the following:

1 Orcadian + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Southwest_English @ 1.487657

From my limited understanding does this make me Anglo-Celtic? Or predominantly Anglo-Saxon? As I understand the genetics are largely indistinguishable?

These are my K36 Admixture Proportions:

73173

Any insight would be greatly appreciated!

[Not a Cop]

My 23andme results brought out at 93% British and Irish, while my GedMatch results (using the Eurogenes K13 model) brought me out at the following:

1 Orcadian + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Southwest_English @ 1.487657

From my limited understanding does this make me Anglo-Celtic? Or predominantly Anglo-Saxon? As I understand the genetics are largely indistinguishable?

These are my K36 Admixture Proportions:

73173

Any insight would be greatly appreciated!

Overall Brits are very similar and differences are very subtle between them in Autosomal DNA.

One thing can help separate them is 23andme's sistem as their B&I is based of Irish mainly, so more B&I you get more "Celtic" your genetical make-up is usually, SE English f.e. tend to get about 50% B&I and the rest being Scandinavian or French&German as an expression of their Continental Germanic input.

So you scoring 93% means that you're most likely almost entirely "Celtic" with minimal Germanic input.

On a side note there is practiacally no Areas on British Isles that have predominant A-S geneitcs, at most is approaches 40-50% in Eastern parts of England.

What is your paper genealogy ethnic make-up? And what is your Y haplogroup up to 23andme?

[McLean]

From what I know, my ancestors are a mix of English, Scottish but predominantly Irish. My 23andme Y haplogroup is R-L48. What do you make of the Orcadian admixture? Was this not under Anglo-Saxon control?

From what I understand the original Celts were a Southern German/Austrian tribe, while the original inhabitants of Britain/Ireland migrated from areas within the Atlantic coast i.e. Iberia? I’ve also read that the terms “Celtic” and “Germanic” are of little value since when comparing the Irish to the original Celts i.e. Austrians there is little overlap? Therefore signifying that the original Celts had a cultural impact but little trace genetically?

Is Celtic even a useful word in this sense?

[Not a Cop]

From what I know, my ancestors are a mix of English, Scottish but predominantly Irish. My 23andme Y haplogroup is R-L48. What do you make of the Orcadian admixture? Was this not under Anglo-Saxon control?

From what I understand the original Celts were a Southern German/Austrian tribe, while the original inhabitants of Britain/Ireland migrated from areas within the Atlantic coast i.e. Iberia? I’ve also read that the terms “Celtic” and “Germanic” are of little value since when comparing the Irish to the original Celts i.e. Austrians there is little overlap? Therefore signifying that the original Celts had a cultural impact but little trace genetically?

Is Celtic even a useful word in this sense?

Problem with calculators like K13\K15 is that their resolution is not suitable for distinguishing between British Islanders, if you'll open spreadsheet you'll find out that averages for all thoose populations are very similar, so you can be modelled as a mixture of many various Brit populations with little difference in accuracy. In such case it's better to stick with 23andme results, as they use a bit different method.

Distinguishing between celtic and A-S or general Germanic admix in Britain is hard due to fact that Celts and Germanic invaders were pretty similar at the start. Both in core are NW Europeans.

Your haplogroup is most likely of Germanic origin btw.

As for Celts and their origin it's a hard question and yet we do not know genetical history of Islands well enough to make some robust statements.

[McLean]

Error

[McLean]

Thank you for your response.

I'm completely new to this field, do you run a blog at all? You seem to be quite knowledgeable. Or could you refer some good sources?

Best wishes

[Leto]

Your first 5 pops are all British (incl. Irish)

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 51.06
2 Baltic 22.84
3 West_Med 14.45
4 West_Asian 5.19
5 East_Med 3.88
6 South_Asian 1.59
7 Siberian 0.98
8 Northeast_African 0.02

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Southeast_English 2.06
2 Southwest_English 2.3
3 Orcadian 2.76
4 West_Scottish 3.6
5 Irish 3.77
6 North_Dutch 4.85
7 Danish 5.14
8 South_Dutch 6.69
9 North_German 6.8
10 Norwegian 7.01
11 West_German 8.24
12 Swedish 9.37
13 French 11.64
14 Austrian 14.25
15 East_German 14.73
16 North_Swedish 15.22
17 Spanish_Cataluna 18.33
18 Hungarian 19.01
19 Southwest_French 19.21
20 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 19.58

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 83.3% Danish + 16.7% French_Basque @ 1.29
2 90.3% Orcadian + 9.7% Spanish_Aragon @ 1.5
3 91% Orcadian + 9% Spanish_Andalucia @ 1.55
4 88.9% Orcadian + 11.1% Spanish_Cataluna @ 1.56
5 90.2% Orcadian + 9.8% Spanish_Valencia @ 1.56
6 90.3% Orcadian + 9.7% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 1.57
7 55.8% Southeast_English + 44.2% Southwest_English @ 1.58
8 89.9% Orcadian + 10.1% Spanish_Cantabria @ 1.64
9 90.5% Orcadian + 9.5% Spanish_Murcia @ 1.67
10 89.7% Orcadian + 10.3% Southwest_French @ 1.67
11 90% Orcadian + 10% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 1.7
12 95.8% Orcadian + 4.2% Sardinian @ 1.73
13 91% Orcadian + 9% Spanish_Extremadura @ 1.74
14 97% Southwest_English + 3% Mari @ 1.77
15 74.7% Southeast_English + 25.3% West_Scottish @ 1.77
16 96% Southwest_English + 4% Tatar @ 1.78
17 90.4% Orcadian + 9.6% Spanish_Galicia @ 1.79
18 92.2% Orcadian + 7.8% French_Basque @ 1.79
19 90.6% Orcadian + 9.4% Portuguese @ 1.79
20 76.9% Southwest_English + 23.1% Danish @ 1.79

[Leto]

As for Celts and their origin it's a hard question and yet we do not know genetical history of Islands well enough to make some robust statements.
They were similar to Germanics anyways as both descended from the Beaker people.

[Not a Cop]

Thank you for your response.

I'm completely new to this field, do you run a blog at all? You seem to be quite knowledgeable. Or could you refer some good sources?

Best wishes

I personally don't, but you can start with Eurogenes blog and Anthrogenica forum.

[Not a Cop]

They were similar to Germanics anyways as both descended from the Beaker people.

I don't doubt that fact, but i was talking about the amount of genetical replacement.

[Leto]

I personally don't, but you can start with Eurogenes blog and Anthrogenica forum.
Anthrogenica has a lot of libtards.

[Leto]

This is an Englishman from Norfolk, 4 grandparents born in East Anglia:


100% European: 94% NW European. 3% Southern European. 3% Broadly European.

Broken down to:

32% British & Irish

27% French & German
7% Scandinavian

29% Broadly NW European

2% Broadly Southern European (including 0.5% Iberian)
And this is his GEDmatch number:
M551698

You can run it yourself through any calculator.

[Grace O'Malley]

From what I know, my ancestors are a mix of English, Scottish but predominantly Irish. My 23andme Y haplogroup is R-L48. What do you make of the Orcadian admixture? Was this not under Anglo-Saxon control?

From what I understand the original Celts were a Southern German/Austrian tribe, while the original inhabitants of Britain/Ireland migrated from areas within the Atlantic coast i.e. Iberia? I’ve also read that the terms “Celtic” and “Germanic” are of little value since when comparing the Irish to the original Celts i.e. Austrians there is little overlap? Therefore signifying that the original Celts had a cultural impact but little trace genetically?

Is Celtic even a useful word in this sense?

23andMe is not showing you admixture. It is based on modern population samples so you obviously match their British & Irish category very well. Orcadians and Irish have a similar admixture as do all the people of Britain and Ireland but just in different proportions. I'm fully Irish and get 92.5% British & Irish on 23andMe but I often get Orcadian as my no 1 population on Gedmatch calculators.

Here is an admixture breakdown of Irish and British. This is from the Irish DNA Atlas study.

http://i65.tinypic.com/28h0w7k.jpg

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-17124-4

http://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1007152

Summary of results from the People of the British Isles study

http://www.oxfordtoday.ox.ac.uk/sites/files/oxford/field/field_document/POBInewsletter06_March2015.pdf

[Grace O'Malley]

Just for comparison purposes this is my Eurogenes K13. As I've said I get 92.5% British & Irish on 23andMe.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 52.04
2 Baltic 25.27
3 West_Med 9.81
4 West_Asian 7.25
5 East_Med 1.77
6 Red_Sea 1.50
7 Amerindian 1.38


Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.
13 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 North_Dutch @ 3.343981
2 Irish @ 3.397813
3 West_Scottish @ 4.026271
4 Norwegian @ 4.042346
5 Orcadian @ 4.244986
6 Danish @ 4.289660
7 North_German @ 6.192955
8 Southeast_English @ 6.842666
9 Southwest_English @ 6.901150
10 Swedish @ 7.318733
11 South_Dutch @ 11.629003
12 West_German @ 12.655422
13 North_Swedish @ 14.482445
14 Austrian @ 17.549162
15 East_German @ 17.693420
16 French @ 18.062477
17 Hungarian @ 22.544872
18 Southwest_Finnish @ 23.876503
19 Spanish_Cataluna @ 26.292759
20 Southwest_French @ 27.316259

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Irish +50% Norwegian @ 2.522953


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Irish +25% Norwegian +25% Norwegian @ 2.522953


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++
1 Irish + Norwegian + Norwegian + West_Scottish @ 2.519424
2 Irish + Irish + Norwegian + Norwegian @ 2.522953
3 Irish + Irish + North_Dutch + Norwegian @ 2.540311
4 Irish + North_Dutch + Norwegian + West_Scottish @ 2.548502
5 Norwegian + Norwegian + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 2.564251
6 North_Dutch + Norwegian + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 2.622005
7 North_German + Norwegian + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 2.648387
8 Irish + Irish + Irish + Norwegian @ 2.664680
9 Irish + North_German + Norwegian + West_Scottish @ 2.680890
10 Danish + Irish + Irish + Norwegian @ 2.683445
11 Danish + Irish + Norwegian + West_Scottish @ 2.695799
12 Irish + Irish + Norwegian + West_Scottish @ 2.721051
13 North_Dutch + North_Dutch + Norwegian + West_Scottish @ 2.729033
14 Danish + Norwegian + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 2.747781
15 Irish + Irish + Swedish + West_Scottish @ 2.753577
16 Irish + Irish + North_German + Norwegian @ 2.764748
17 Irish + North_Dutch + North_Dutch + Norwegian @ 2.766720
18 North_Dutch + Norwegian + Norwegian + West_Scottish @ 2.767802
19 Irish + Swedish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 2.767981
20 Irish + Irish + Irish + Swedish @ 2.775764

[Grace O'Malley]

From what I know, my ancestors are a mix of English, Scottish but predominantly Irish. My 23andme Y haplogroup is R-L48. What do you make of the Orcadian admixture? Was this not under Anglo-Saxon control?

From what I understand the original Celts were a Southern German/Austrian tribe, while the original inhabitants of Britain/Ireland migrated from areas within the Atlantic coast i.e. Iberia? I’ve also read that the terms “Celtic” and “Germanic” are of little value since when comparing the Irish to the original Celts i.e. Austrians there is little overlap? Therefore signifying that the original Celts had a cultural impact but little trace genetically?

Is Celtic even a useful word in this sense?

"Celtic" is very difficult to define genetically. Many people have different opinions about what exactly Celtic is. I doubt present day Austrians are the same as they were 2,000 years ago so defining what populations are Celtic now and in the past is very difficult. Some populations have changed as other people have moved in to certain areas. People like the Irish have retained a lot of Bell Beaker genetics because of isolation and I personally believe that the Celts originated out of Bell Beaker populations. I think Unetice is a very good place to start in regards to looking at Celtic origins.

People use the Irish as a proxy for Celtic but I personally think the term "Insular Celtic" is more correct. The Celts were a widespread population in the past and I think the ancient Gauls were Celts in every sense. It would be interesting if they could test some ancient Celtic populations from the European mainland.