Please, help me determine my phenotype

[Asefa]

Hello !

I'm a beginner in this field (ethnic origins in general).

The question of my phenotype intrigues me because people are often surprised when I tell them my origins, despite the fact that all my family comes from the same country and that my autosomal admixture is typical of this origin.
I'm often associed with specifics populations that - although confirmed by what I know about the history of my ancestors - are not supposed to have as much impact on my phenotype.

Also, I would be curious to have feedback of more expert observers, to see if the common insigth of people is confirmed, or if they are misled by unrefined stereotypes (such as the fact that I have blond hair).

Some photos, including a morphing of several (I think this process highlights the characteristics of a face) :
http://www.image-heberg.fr/files/15205181301942709145.png
http://www.image-heberg.fr/files/15205182411919772011.jpg
http://www.image-heberg.fr/files/1520518272661635994.jpg

Height : 1.80 m (5'10.5)
Hair: dark blond
Eyes: green/brown with some blue/grey
Skin: medium or light brown
Morphotype: rather Mesomorph

[quirtydoodah]

I can't determine phenotypes yet but you look Spanish to me.

[Kivan]

Judging by the pics, Atlantid + Alpine. Very western european look.

[Catarinense1998]

Atlantid.Look Spaniard to me like the guy above said.

[Asefa]

Impressive how a face can speaks for itself !
You have precisely defined the intermediate region between the country where I come from and the populations to whom I'm often associated.

When you talk about "Atlantid", I guess you're referring to that average face: 73189
If this is the case, so this is indeed the phenotype that I most look like in my opinion.

I'm not Spaniard, but it's a detail... :)


Judging by the pics, Atlantid + Alpine.

Alpinid ?
On my maternal side, some of them typically have Alpinid roundish feature, but that does not seem to be my case.

[The Blade]

Atlantid. No Alpine, in my opinion.

[Asefa]

Well, there is a unanimous assessment for Atlantid.
Thanks for your help.

If my deductions are correct, Atlantid is a kind of intermediate sub-type between West Mediterranean and North Atlantid, wich are more distinct and consistent phenotypes.
This mixture is indicative of what I said about the relative ambiguity of my origins.

In fact, I'm Portuguese, but in general, people identify me more willingly as a nordic descent (kind of French Germanic) than a southern, and it's not uncommon for me to be associated with a Viking... (Well, that's what my mediterranean entourage thinks, with their own biases... but probably from the point of view of a Nordic or an Eastern, there is less ambiguity).

The analysis of my autosomal DNA confirms the fact that I'm a little more Nordic (and Slavic) than average Portuguese, and a little less mediterranean (including Berber), although - moreover - it turns out that I am significantly more Arabian/Semitic than the average Iberian (what I always perceived, although it's subtle).

In my experience, Atlantid is quite rare in Portugal, the average Portuguese being very Mediterranean with often obvious North African influence.

For comparison, here is an old photo of me with a Portuguese friend who turns out quiet similar - in my opinion -to the eurafricanid phenotype (He's often identified as a Kabyle).
It's a photo of a photo, so a bit distorted :
http://www.image-heberg.fr/files/1520536879381229491.jpg

[Xacal]

Atlantid

[Cristiano viejo]

For comparison, here is an old photo of me with a Portuguese friend who turns out quiet similar - in my opinion -to the eurafricanid phenotype (He's often identified as a Kabyle).
It's a photo of a photo, so a bit distorted :
If your friend is ethnic Portuguese I am Chinese :costumed-smiley-067

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Nem sequer estás no espectro dos Portugueses mais claros, quanto mais as pessoas ficarem surpreendidas que sejas Português...

Isto se fores mesmo Português e não um troll.

[Odin]

Atlanto-Med.

[Asefa]

Nem sequer estás no espectro dos Portugueses mais claros, quanto mais as pessoas ficarem surpreendidas que sejas Português...

Isto se fores mesmo Português e não um troll.

Sei que nao tenho cara de português, mas a ponto de duvidar da minha autenticidade... Nao serias tu o Troll ?... :)
O que queres dizer com "Portugueses mais claros" ? Falas dos Cabelos ?.. E verdade que devo estar situado nos 5% dos mais loiros. Mesmo na minha família, apenas três pessoas são loiras.
Mais si tu falas da pele, entao as fotos sao enganosas, porque que acho que sou pelo menos na média dos Portugueses (em quelquer caso, mais moreno que a maioria dos portugueses que conheço).

[Asefa]

If your friend is ethnic Portuguese I am Chinese :costumed-smiley-067


I'm not joking.
Both of his parents come from the same area in northeastern Portugal.

[Damião de Góis]

The analysis of my autosomal DNA confirms the fact that I'm a little more Nordic (and Slavic) than average Portuguese, and a little less mediterranean (including Berber), although - moreover - it turns out that I am significantly more Arabian/Semitic than the average Iberian (what I always perceived, although it's subtle).

What is your Eurogenes k15 or k13 results?



In my experience, Atlantid is quite rare in Portugal, the average Portuguese being very Mediterranean with often obvious North African influence.

For comparison, here is an old photo of me with a Portuguese friend who turns out quiet similar - in my opinion -to the eurafricanid phenotype (He's often identified as a Kabyle).
It's a photo of a photo, so a bit distorted :
http://www.image-heberg.fr/files/1520536879381229491.jpg

No comment... you are either delusional or misinformed.

[Aren]

Lol the Portuguese members here are having a syntax error :D
Imagine one of their own describing Portugal as North African influenced, oh the horror.

[Damião de Góis]

Lol the Portuguese members here are having a syntax error :D
Imagine one of their own describing Portugal as North African influenced, oh the horror.

Why, do you have an opinion on the matter? I would be interested in your assyrian perspective...

[Aren]

Why, do you have an opinion on the matter? I would be interested in your assyrian perspective...

It's not directly towards just the Portuguese but all southern Europeans who sometimes have a hard time admitting to having MENA looking people among their ethnicity. You know what, you're right if you guys don't belive him it's up to you.

[Asefa]

No comment... you are either delusional or misinformed.
Misinformed, probably. I Begin in that field.

Could you explain ?...



What is your Eurogenes k15 or k13 results?

Eurogenes K13

North_Atlantic 41.39
Baltic 11.89
West_Med 24.30
West_Asian -
East_Med 13.12
Red_Sea 6.33
South_Asian -
East_Asian -
Siberian 0.12
Amerindian 0.08
Oceanian 0.16
Northeast_African 2.60
Sub-Saharan -

Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15

North_Sea 22.40
Atlantic 31.29
Baltic 6.21
Eastern_Euro 2.04
West_Med 18.96
West_Asian -
East_Med 10.10
Red_Sea 6.21
South_Asian -
Southeast_Asian -
Siberian -
Amerindian -
Oceanian -
Northeast_African 2.78
Sub-Saharan -

[Damião de Góis]

Misinformed, probably. I Begin in that field.

Could you explain ?...

You are neither lighter than average nor the average portuguese is how you described. Why you would suggest such a thing is either misinformation or delusion like i said.




Eurogenes K13

North_Atlantic 41.39
Baltic 11.89
West_Med 24.30
West_Asian -
East_Med 13.12
Red_Sea 6.33
South_Asian -
East_Asian -
Siberian 0.12
Amerindian 0.08
Oceanian 0.16
Northeast_African 2.60
Sub-Saharan -

Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15

North_Sea 22.40
Atlantic 31.29
Baltic 6.21
Eastern_Euro 2.04
West_Med 18.96
West_Asian -
East_Med 10.10
Red_Sea 6.21
South_Asian -
Southeast_Asian -
Siberian -
Amerindian -
Oceanian -
Northeast_African 2.78
Sub-Saharan -

Not very far from the average, i was expecting a bigger difference going by what you said. Could you post Oracle for both?

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Sei que nao tenho cara de português, mas a ponto de duvidar da minha autenticidade... Nao serias tu o Troll ?... :)
O que queres dizer com "Portugueses mais claros" ? Falas dos Cabelos ?.. E verdade que devo estar situado nos 5% dos mais loiros. Mesmo na minha família, apenas três pessoas são loiras.
Mais si tu falas da pele, entao as fotos sao enganosas, porque que acho que sou pelo menos na média dos Portugueses (em quelquer caso, mais moreno que a maioria dos portugueses que conheço).

O que é que te levou tanto tempo a responder? O Google tradutor avariou ou estavas à espera do teu amigo Argelino para escrever-te um texto em Português?

[dperucca]

Atlanto-Med.

+1.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Lol the Portuguese members here are having a syntax error :D
Imagine one of their own describing Portugal as North African influenced, oh the horror.

Isn't it just a coincidence and convenient that every time there is a new "Portuguese" member in here that they speak broken Portuguese? And suddenly dubious members from "Syria" that no one ever heard of and registered in Feb 18 pop up.

Too expert to know that we are North African influenced and only 5% of the population is blonde but not that expert to speak Portuguese properly?

[Marmara]

Those pictures aren't very good for classification, and i think your long hair has something to do with you being associated with north.

[Aren]

Isn't it just a coincidence and convenient that every time there is a new "Portuguese" member in here that they speak broken Portuguese? And suddenly dubious members from "Syria" that no one ever heard of and registered in Feb 18 pop up.

Too expert to know that we are North African influenced and only 5% of the population is blonde but not that expert to speak Portuguese properly?
Wtf am I reading? Take your pills, you are far too delusional. Why do you care so much that he believes only 5% of all Portuguese are blonde? Is it that important to you?

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Wtf am I reading? Take your pills, you are far too delusional. Why do you care so much that he believes only 5% of all Portuguese are blonde? Is it that important to you?


The guy is not even blonde to start with and wouldn't be taken for blonde in Portugal. I am assuming he lives in a Magrhebi neighbourhood in France, that's probably why people tell him that he looks "Viking".

I know it is just a major coincidence that a supposedly new Portuguese member does an introductory post saying we are all phenotipically north-african shifted and that he turns out to look like Jesus Christ but among Portugueses he is seen as a viking apparently.


It is also a coincidence that the Syrian rapefugee account registered in Feb 2018 comes to back him up ;)

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Also a coincidence that he is taking half an hour to answer me in Portuguese but you know that we got to make sure that Google translator translates everything correctly or we need to at least give time for someone to rectify if whatever he is writing has no mistakes and is passable as "native Portuguese" ;)

[Asefa]

You are neither lighter than average nor the average portuguese is how you described. Why you would suggest such a thing is either misinformation or delusion like i said.
Maybe not the average Portuguese. I exaggerated.
But I grew up in France, and I can tell you that here, a lot of typical Mediterranid Portuguese are able to be confused with Maghrebians.
And if that were not the case, then why distinguish phenotypes such as Eurafricanid or Trans mediterranid, and why the Berberid distribution map includes the Iberian Peninsula?
And about me, I just testify that, in genreal, I am more assimilated to a Nordic than to a southern mediterranid. And I don't feel it's common for a Portuguese.



very far from the average, i was expecting a bigger difference going by what you said. Could you post Oracle for both?

Very Iberian, apparently

K13

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 4.123722
2 Portuguese @ 5.056562
3 Spanish_Galicia @ 5.110868
4 Spanish_Murcia @ 5.771462
5 Spanish_Extremadura @ 6.395247
6 Spanish_Cataluna @ 6.402563
7 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 6.758933
8 Spanish_Valencia @ 7.247563
9 Spanish_Cantabria @ 7.515519
10 Spanish_Aragon @ 8.519891
11 Spanish_Andalucia @ 8.909764
12 Southwest_French @ 9.587702
13 French @ 10.405183
14 North_Italian @ 14.333252
15 South_Dutch @ 17.063148
16 West_German @ 17.579048
17 Tuscan @ 20.625786
18 French_Basque @ 20.896120
19 Southeast_English @ 21.227461
20 Southwest_English @ 21.660954

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon +50% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 4.123722


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon +25% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon +25% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 4.123722


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 4.123722
2 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Galicia @ 4.150203
3 Portuguese + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 4.195895
4 Portuguese + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Galicia @ 4.304353
5 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Galicia + Spanish_Galicia @ 4.331740
6 Portuguese + Portuguese + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 4.385565
7 French + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 4.400784
8 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Galicia + Spanish_Murcia @ 4.413408
9 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Murcia @ 4.423992
10 French + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Murcia @ 4.491820
11 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Extremadura @ 4.510061
12 French + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Galicia @ 4.514281
13 French + Portuguese + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 4.528852
14 Portuguese + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Murcia @ 4.533195
15 Portuguese + Portuguese + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Galicia @ 4.558950
16 Portuguese + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Galicia + Spanish_Galicia @ 4.559285
17 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Galicia + Spanish_Galicia + Spanish_Murcia @ 4.563318
18 French + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Galicia + Spanish_Murcia @ 4.570105
19 French + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Extremadura @ 4.574036
20 Algerian + French_Basque + Norwegian + Spanish_Aragon @ 4.574890

K15
Using 1 population approximation:
1 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 5.159694
2 Spanish_Murcia @ 5.979646
3 Spanish_Extremadura @ 6.382305
4 Spanish_Cataluna @ 6.685877
5 Portuguese @ 6.960743
6 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 8.057055
7 Spanish_Galicia @ 8.177332
8 Spanish_Cantabria @ 8.359099
9 Spanish_Valencia @ 8.390823
10 Spanish_Aragon @ 8.690741
11 Spanish_Andalucia @ 9.928648
12 Southwest_French @ 10.218202
13 French @ 12.169015
14 North_Italian @ 14.011591
15 South_Dutch @ 16.878387
16 French_Basque @ 19.008072
17 Southwest_English @ 19.969172
18 West_German @ 20.313311
19 Tuscan @ 20.397169
20 Southeast_English @ 21.051685

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon +50% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 5.159694


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon +25% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon +25% Spanish_Murcia @ 5.145078


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Murcia @ 5.145078
2 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 5.159694
3 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Extremadura @ 5.244583
4 Algerian + French_Basque + French_Basque + West_Norwegian @ 5.276637
5 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Murcia + Spanish_Murcia @ 5.286528
6 Algerian + French_Basque + Orcadian + Spanish_Aragon @ 5.298980
7 Algerian + French_Basque + Spanish_Aragon + West_Scottish @ 5.319139
8 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Extremadura + Spanish_Murcia @ 5.345367
9 French + Spanish_Aragon + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Murcia @ 5.356218
10 Portuguese + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 5.365567
11 Algerian + French_Basque + Irish + Spanish_Aragon @ 5.385515
12 French + Spanish_Aragon + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 5.401481
13 Algerian + French_Basque + Spanish_Aragon + West_Norwegian @ 5.404765
14 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Cataluna @ 5.415150
15 French_Basque + Moroccan + Spanish_Aragon + West_Norwegian @ 5.415787
16 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Galicia + Spanish_Murcia @ 5.425815
17 Portuguese + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Murcia @ 5.428271
18 French_Basque + Spanish_Aragon + Tunisian + West_Norwegian @ 5.437560
19 Spanish_Aragon + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Galicia @ 5.439028
20 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Cataluna + Spanish_Murcia @ 5.440707

[Asefa]

O que é que te levou tanto tempo a responder? O Google tradutor avariou ou estavas à espera do teu amigo Argelino para escrever-te um texto em Português?

Queres o meu Skype para conversar ?.. :)

Minha língua materna é o francês. Dito isto, falo um pouco melhor do que a maioria dos filhos dos imigrantes portugueses que conheço.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Queres o meu Skype para conversar ?.. :)

Minha língua materna é o francês. Dito isto, falo um pouco melhor do que a maioria dos filhos dos imigrantes portugueses que conheço.

Se quiseres podes mandar-me uma foto tua com o teu nick escrito num papel via PM. Se realmente és quem dizes ser não deve ser difícil.

[Root]

I'll be able to determine members' phenotypes if you guys will use less photo-editing apps *retrica and please post the three proper pics with different head position(profile, front and half turn)..

[Asefa]

Se quiseres podes mandar-me uma foto tua com o teu nick escrito num papel via PM. Se realmente és quem dizes ser não deve ser difícil.

Apparently, I don't have permission to access Private messaging.
So, to prove to you that I 'm not the troll that you believe, I post the photo here (hoping you don't suspect me now of being a photo editing pro).
Web cam quality... Only have that for the moment.
http://www.image-heberg.fr/files/15205963831596854522.jpg

I don't know any of the habits of this forum, and, in particular, about the beliefs around which the Portuguese here tend to grivitate in terms of ethnical identity.

Apparently - according to your reaction as well as that of Endovélico (as suggested by Aren) - you seem resistant to the idea that Iberians (like other Southern Europeans) can be pertinently distinguished from other Europeans on the criterion of their proximity with Afro-asiatic middle eastern, and - symmetrically - you seem to be trying to trivialize the fact that we can find in Iberia phenotypes whose "europeanity" is as obvious and quintessential as in the more northern europeans.
Of course, in the genetic pool of Iberians, this Afro-Asian contribution is minimal in comparison with Celtic or Germanic, and I understand that one may feel the need to ponder certain clichés, but not to the point of getting down to the facts until denying them.

Regardless of my personal empirical experience (which I concede that she may be biased), the scientific facts are that - among all Europeans - Iberians are the ones who have received the highest amount of African genetic contributions (sub-Saharan included).
http://www.image-heberg.fr/files/15205964211643935155.png

[barkoo]

Tu es de quelle région ? Je suis assez d'accord avec toi sur ton analyse globale sur les Portugais et comment ils sont perçus and France, assez exotiques d'une manière générale.
Mais sur ce forum tu vas être littéralement détesté, ou accusé d’être un ignoble troll simplement pour ton honnêteté.
A mon avis tu es Alpinized Atlantid et ton collègue a mi-chemin de Saharid/Berberid.

[Asefa]

Tu es de quelle région ?.

J'ai passé mes trente premières années à Paris et banlieue Parisienne, puis je me suis installé dans le sud-est (Aude) il y a trois ans.


Mais sur ce forum tu vas être littéralement détesté, ou accusé d’être un ignoble troll simplement pour ton honnêteté.
Je veux bien te croire, mais si c'est le cas, c'est vraiment con comme attitude (bien que je me foute d'être détesté)...
M'enfin, je ne vais pas faire semblant d'être surpris du fait que l’honnêteté tende à devenir de plus en plus trollesque...

Mais c'est quoi le délire ici, précisément ? Tu pourrais m'en dire d'avantage ?..
Parce que, comme je l'ai dit, moi j'débarque en pur profane.



A mon avis tu es Alpinized Atlantid et ton collègue a mi-chemin Saharid/Berberid.
Qu'est-ce qui t'évoque le type Alpinid (tu es le deuxième ou le troisième à suggérer cette tendance)?
Parce que pour l'instant, pour me figurer ce phénotype, je n'ai que le morph du site Human Phenotypes et je peine à m'y reconnaitre.
Concernant mon pote, sa tendance Nord Africaine est particulièrement notable je trouve, bien qu'il soit nettement plus pâle de peau que moi.

[Sikeliot]

Atlanto-Med. Iberian looking. But I could show you a similar Greek person whose photo I found online.

[Asefa]

Atlanto-Med. Iberian looking. But I could show you a similar Greek person whose photo I found online.


Thanks, it would interest me.

Iberian Looking ? At this point !

[Sikeliot]

Thanks, it would interest me.


I sent you a message also.

Here is the photo:

http://i43.tinypic.com/5v6lv8.jpg

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Apparently, I don't have permission to access Private messaging.
So, to prove to you that I 'm not the troll that you believe, I post the photo here (hoping you don't suspect me now of being a photo editing pro).
Web cam quality... Only have that for the moment.
http://www.image-heberg.fr/files/15205963831596854522.jpg

I don't know any of the habits of this forum, and, in particular, about the beliefs around which the Portuguese here tend to grivitate in terms of ethnical identity.

Apparently - according to your reaction as well as that of Endovélico (as suggested by Aren) - you seem resistant to the idea that Iberians (like other Southern Europeans) can be pertinently distinguished from other Europeans on the criterion of their proximity with Afro-asiatic middle eastern, and - symmetrically - you seem to be trying to trivialize the fact that we can find in Iberia phenotypes whose "europeanity" is as obvious and quintessential as in the more northern europeans.
Of course, in the genetic pool of Iberians, this Afro-Asian contribution is minimal in comparison with Celtic or Germanic, and I understand that one may feel the need to ponder certain clichés, but not to the point of getting down to the facts until denying them.

Regardless of my personal empirical experience (which I concede that she may be biased), the scientific facts are that - among all Europeans - Iberians are the ones who have received the highest amount of African genetic contributions (sub-Saharan included).
http://www.image-heberg.fr/files/15205964211643935155.png


First and foremost, my apologies. Usually when an Iberian member joins in this forum to say on his first post that he is Arab\Semitic shifted and that the average Portuguese looks like a Kabyle and what not, it is 9 out of 10 times a major troll. Seems I was wrong this time.

With that said, your statements are still laughable.You're completely detached from reality if you think you look phenotypically or genetically different from other Portugueses.



K15:

# Population Percent
1 Atlantic 26.02
2 West_Med 22.23
3 North_Sea 19.84
4 East_Med 11.77
5 Eastern_Euro 5.49
6 Baltic 5.14
7 Northeast_African 3.19
8 West_Asian 2.99
9 Red_Sea 2.29

K13

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 36.75
2 West_Med 25.64
3 East_Med 14.09
4 Baltic 11.57
5 West_Asian 4.55
6 Red_Sea 2.76
7 Northeast_African 2.50

https://s13.postimg.org/ov30emk6f/image.png

This is where you plot. Atlantic Islander (member from Açores), Endovélico (Alentejo) and me (Beira-Baixa).

Contrary to what you think, you're not more eastern shifted or slavic, you are actually more western.

[Sikeliot]

Portuguese do not have any recent Sub-Saharan worth noting, the exception being Madeirans and in a few cases, some Azoreans. This is from the slave trade, not from Moors or Berbers though.

[barkoo]

J'ai passé mes trente premières années à Paris et banlieue Parisienne, puis je me suis installé dans le sud-est (Aude) il y a trois ans.

Oh ma famille coté Française est principalement originaire d'Ile de France et quelques elements dans le Centre/Sud aussi, je vis dans la region Lyonnaise pour ma part actuellement.



Je veux bien te croire, mais si c'est le cas, c'est vraiment con comme attitude (bien que je me foute d'être détesté)...
M'enfin, je ne vais pas faire semblant d'être surpris du fait que l’honnêteté tende à devenir de plus en plus trollesque...

Disons que tu seras a demi détesté, ta "chance" est de ressembler a un Européen mais ton positionnement sera constamment remis en cause ou considéré comme une tentative de trollage.
Ca fait presque 2 ans que je suis hais et considéré comme un Maghrébin alors imagine un peu l'orientation du forum


Mais c'est quoi le délire ici, précisément ? Tu pourrais m'en dire d'avantage ?..
Parce que, comme je l'ai dit, moi j'débarque en pur profane.

Le delire ici c'est un melange de personnes peu sûr d'elle meme mélé a un sentiment d'appartenance à une hypothétique race nordique, remontées et véhémentes contre les personnes qui ne ressemblent pas et/ou n'argumentent pas dans cette direction, et à ce que la majorité ici vont considérer comme le standard Européen. C'est en gros le pitch sustains du forum pour aller vite.

[ÁGUIA]

Welcome to the forum.
Btw from where are your Portuguese origins?

[Asefa]

First and foremost, my apologies. Usually when an Iberian member joins in this forum to say on his first post that he is Arab\Semitic shifted and that the average Portuguese looks like a Kabyle and what not, it is 9 out of 10 times a major troll. Seems I was wrong this time..
OK. Delighted to be the exception that confirms the rule :)


With that said, your statements are still laughable.You're completely detached from reality if you think you look phenotypically or genetically different from other Portugueses.

Now that I understand better your point if view, I see that there was a misunderstanding.

I quote my introduction highlighting the key words:

The question of my phenotype intrigues me because people are often surprised when I tell them my origins, despite the fact that ... my autosomal admixture is typical of this origin. Also, I would be curious to have feedback of more expert observers, to see if the common insigth of people is confirmed, or if they are misled by unrefined stereotypes (such as the fact that I have blond hair).
So if you read me well, you will notice that throughout this topic, I very little expressed my own point of view about my case, and that I especially emphasized on what people think in general, namely, on intuitions commonly shared. Why? Because that says a lot about the stereotypes that underlie spontaneous assessments, and that - besides determining my phenotype - it interests me to understand how stereotypes can be both very realistic and highly biased.

So when you say that it's to be completely detached from reality to consider that I don't look like a Portuguese, it's not to me that you address this judgment, but to the majority of people who have expressed themselves on my phenotype and on what they think a Portuguese looks like (among these people figuring a lot of Portuguese).
Perhaps they are wrong, but if so, the fact remains that this majority assessement is a fact, and like all facts, it is indicative of something about the reality and deserves to be objectively considered.

So - unless you continue to deny the fact that a majority of people think that - if I go in your direction, the question to ask about this is : why this majority is wrong, and why you're right ?
I have some hypotheses about it, but I would prefer that you start by giving me your interpretation (hoping it's something other than "because people are stupid and uneducated")

And for my part, I began to misunderstand what your postulate was, especially when you spoke of "the spectrum of the clearest Portuguese" in your first intervention. I began by presupposing the exact opposite of your interpretation (that you put me on a level too "clear" to be a Portuguese). Reason why I wondered if it wasn't you the troll, and my first answers must be understood according to this misunderstanding.


This is where you plot. Atlantic Islander (member from Açores), Endovélico (Alentejo) and me (Beira-Baixa).
Contrary to what you think, you're not more eastern shifted or slavic, you are actually more western

Thanks for this calculation.
My whole family on the maternal side comes from Madeira. It may be an insidence on this western positioning.
Nevertheless, I'm closer to the Nordic than you and Endovélico.

But as I started to say in my introduction, I know that I am typically Portuguese genetically, and I did not wait for an autosomal test to find out. That's not my topic.
I hope you have understood now that my topic is to clarify why, in spite of a lack of ambiguity at the genetic level, there may be ambiguity at the phenotypic level (the correlation between the two is not equal to 1). The fact that you or other experts see no ambiguity should not overshadow the fact that this ambiguity exists in the minds of a majority of people. And the fact that Atlandid is unanimously attributed to me is significant of this ambiguity for the reasons I have already stated (intermediate between mediterranean and nordic more commonly observing on the west coastal France).

[Asefa]

Those pictures aren't very good for classification, and i think your long hair has something to do with you being associated with north.
I think so. It highlights the fairness of my hair and vaguely evokes the Vikings, obscuring everything else, especially the fact that my skin is rather ligth brown. Certainly, if I browned my hair and cut it shorter in a Latin style, my Mediterranean side would stand out with much more relief.

[Asefa]

Here is the photo:

http://i43.tinypic.com/5v6lv8.jpg

There is a significant resemblance indeed.
But a Balkan version of the type I belong to with a Dinaric trend. No ? (the nose more aquiline)

[Asefa]

Welcome to the forum.

thanks, honored :)


Btw from where are your Portuguese origins?

On the maternal side, my grandparents are from Madeira, and nobody knows where their family came from originally in Portugal. It is clearly on this side that my "blond gene" comes from.

On my father's side, my grandparents come from the same aera near Pombal, not far from Coimbra.

[Hadouken]

you have my haircut . nice

[Mingle]

For comparison, here is an old photo of me with a Portuguese friend who turns out quiet similar - in my opinion -to the eurafricanid phenotype (He's often identified as a Kabyle).
It's a photo of a photo, so a bit distorted


How common is the phenotype of your friend in Portugal? Like if you had to give a percent? Would you say it's more common than your phenotype?

[ÁGUIA]

thanks, honored :)



On the maternal side, my grandparents are from Madeira, and nobody knows where their family came from originally in Portugal. It is clearly on this side that my "blond gene" comes from.

On my father's side, my grandparents come from the same aera near Pombal, not far from Coimbra.

Damn what's with this forum and shortage of Northern Portuguese? Not even a avec :p. As you probably know most of our immigrants in France are from Northern Portugal. Coincidently I have a substancial part of my family in Paris and Le Mans.

Genetics or phenotypes are not for the most part a big interest of mine. In relation to your "blond gene", most of Madeira's settlers were from Northern Portugal (Minho region), smaller portions from others areas as well. But the main stock is indeed from Minho. Highly population density plus poverty. Not exactly the best combination hence why higher propensity to immigration till this days. Not only from Minho but from the whole Northern part of the country.

In any case just keep faithful to your ideas even if goes against the mainstream opinion spread in this forum. At the end this is not a popularity contest.

[Asefa]

How common is the phenotype of your friend in Portugal? Like if you had to give a percent? Would you say it's more common than your phenotype?

In a completely approximate way, I would say that there is the same proportion of "Eurafricanid Portuguese" as Portuguese like me (rather atlantid), and that these two tendencies don't constitute the majority (thus approximately 20% each).

[Sacrificed Ram]

Atlanto-Bell Beaker.

[Damião de Góis]

Tu es de quelle région ? Je suis assez d'accord avec toi sur ton analyse globale sur les Portugais et comment ils sont perçus and France, assez exotiques d'une manière générale.
Mais sur ce forum tu vas être littéralement détesté, ou accusé d’être un ignoble troll simplement pour ton honnêteté.
A mon avis tu es Alpinized Atlantid et ton collègue a mi-chemin de Saharid/Berberid.

I'm sure people here would find you exotic as well.



So when you say that it's to be completely detached from reality to consider that I don't look like a Portuguese, it's not to me that you address this judgment, but to the majority of people who have expressed themselves on my phenotype and on what they think a Portuguese looks like (among these people figuring a lot of Portuguese).

Who are these people? Other emigrants? French people?



Nevertheless, I'm closer to the Nordic than you and Endovélico.


Actually we are both too far to be worth any mention. Nordics don't appear in my top 20 on neither K13 or K15 (and they also don't appear on yours). They do appear on EuTest because of the lack of spanish regions on that run:


# Population (source) Distance
1 PT 3.63
2 ES 4.84
3 North_Italian 7.41
4 FR 8.04
5 Tuscan 12.59
6 AT 15.61
7 Cornish 16.71
8 West_&_Central_German 17.07
9 NL 17.43
10 RO 17.55
11 Serbian 17.67
12 English 17.99
13 HU 18.78
14 French_Basque 18.93
15 Orcadian 19.53
16 IE 19.58
17 Scottish 20.62
18 DK 21.06
19 South_Italian_&_Sicilian 22.6
20 NO 22.9


Your distances to them should be similar to mine, and a distance of more than 20 is too far to be worth mentioning.


In a completely approximate way, I would say that there is the same proportion of "Eurafricanid Portuguese" as Portuguese like me (rather atlantid), and that these two tendencies don't constitute the majority (thus approximately 20% each).

Just out of curiosity, what would the universe of this estimate be? Portuguese emigrants in France?

[FYCW Parasite]

Alpine med. Very portuguese.

[Lightshade25]

Cool hair, man.

[Asefa]

18 DK 21.06
...
20 NO 22.9
Your distances to them should be similar to mine
Exact. About the same results as you on Eu test, but with Spain first (4,03), and Portugal behind (4,88). But I said that just because my plot is positioned slightly higher than yours, and therefore slightly closer (or less far) than the area comprising the north-Atlantic populations.


Who are these people? Other emigrants? French people?
A representative sample of my environment since I was a kid: a majority of French (+ a small proportion of friends from Morocco), the rest being Portuguese (living mostly in France, including many of my family).


Just out of curiosity, what would the universe of this estimate be? Portuguese emigrants in France?
Just out of curiosity, I would like to know your experte estimate ... :)

But the questions you ask here are in line with my hypothesis about this distortion in the representation of what an average Portuguese looks like.

My interpretation is that the average Iberian being phenotypically close to the average French, to distinguish the two, people tend to exaggerate their difference along a southwestern / northeastern axis, overvaluing the trans-Mediterranean component of the Iberians and, symmetrically, the North Atlantic component of the French.
Now, from the point of view of a Frenchman, one identifies a Portuguese with what distinguishes him most from the phenotype that these two populations have in common, namely, with the trans-mediterranid and slightly Arab component that the Iberians share with north Africans. And the same goes for the point of view of Portuguese living in France, especially when they come close to the Southern phenotype in question (which is the case of my paternal family, and most Portuguese who told me that I didn’t look like a Portuguese).

Perhaps there is also a socio-cultural reason. Being very little identified with my origins, my lifestyle and my tastes/values are moving away from the socio-cultural norms that homogenize the Portuguese environment that I have rubbed shoulders with (rather uneducated and chauvinistic people in general), which certainly reinforces the fact that most people don’t spontaneously associate me with a Portuguese.

Looking for information to get a more global and objective idea of what the Portuguese look like, I came across this page that you may know : http://portuguesephenotype.blogspot.fr/2013/05/the-phenotype-of-portuguese.html
Overall, the content of this page is in line with what I observe, except for the frequency of blond hair (20%). But it’s specified that the country is heterogeneous when it comes to the distribution of blonde hair, and – obviously - my sample of Portuguese doesn’t include individuals from these regions where blondness is more common than elsewhere.

Out of curiosity, I counted the Portuguese who are part of my reference sample, and arrived at 70, I could calculate this distribution:
light blond: 0%
between ash/dirty blond and dark blond (like me): 5%
light brown: 10%
brown: 60-65%
black: 20-25%
I know that my sample is not generalizable but it can give an idea of my Portuguese environment.

Regarding the face gallery, I find it representative of Iberian in general, but not necessarily in terms of proportion (relative to my personal sample, which has many more trans-Mediterranean types).
Some of this faces, without being really representative of the average Portuguese, are nevertheless very close to somes features that I have met only among the Portuguese. This is the kind of face, when I see it, I can hardly imagine that another language than Portuguese can come out of their mouths (or at least Spanish).
Some examples:
http://www.image-heberg.fr/files/15210586061275574782.jpg
http://www.image-heberg.fr/files/1521058642706129813.jpg

Examples to which I could add this "specimen" discovered on a youtube video, and that I find singularly Portuguese:
http://www.image-heberg.fr/files/15210587061141550658.png

And to illustrate what I mean by Portuguese looking MENA, I found these specimens among the footballers (making sure that they were born in Portugal and that their surname was Portuguese):
http://www.image-heberg.fr/files/15210588051340539223.jpg

[Asefa]

I'll be able to determine members' phenotypes if you guys will use less photo-editing apps *retrica and please post the three proper pics with different head position(profile, front and half turn)..
I understand.
But having only my web cam to photograph me, the poor quality and the lack of lighting forces me to lessen the shade and slightly increase the definition.
I took new pictures from different angles in the best technical conditions I currently have.
Hoping that this facilitates the classification. Maybe there will be changes of opinion
http://www.image-heberg.fr/files/15210595411023055112.jpg http://www.image-heberg.fr/files/1521059599109768024.jpg http://www.image-heberg.fr/files/1521059626948198662.jpg http://www.image-heberg.fr/files/1521059680983425708.jpg http://www.image-heberg.fr/files/15210597061383603538.jpg http://www.image-heberg.fr/files/1521059741512713529.jpg


And in a more global view (more realistic proportions of the face):
http://www.image-heberg.fr/files/15210598631275574782.jpg http://www.image-heberg.fr/files/15210599041318355784.jpg http://www.image-heberg.fr/files/15210599371578540933.jpg

[dperucca]

I understand.
But having only my web cam to photograph me, the poor quality and the lack of lighting forces me to lessen the shade and slightly increase the definition.
I took new pictures from different angles in the best technical conditions I currently have.
Hoping that this facilitates the classification. Maybe there will be changes of opinion
http://www.image-heberg.fr/files/15210595411023055112.jpg http://www.image-heberg.fr/files/1521059599109768024.jpg http://www.image-heberg.fr/files/1521059626948198662.jpg http://www.image-heberg.fr/files/1521059680983425708.jpg http://www.image-heberg.fr/files/15210597061383603538.jpg http://www.image-heberg.fr/files/1521059741512713529.jpg


And in a more global view (more realistic proportions of the face):
http://www.image-heberg.fr/files/15210598631275574782.jpg http://www.image-heberg.fr/files/15210599041318355784.jpg http://www.image-heberg.fr/files/15210599371578540933.jpg

You look a bit like a painting of Jesus my grandmother has in her living room lol.
http://www.image-heberg.fr/files/1521059741512713529.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/ee/The_Head_of_Christ_by_Warner_Sallman_1941.jpg/200px-The_Head_of_Christ_by_Warner_Sallman_1941.jpg

[Asefa]

You look a bit like a painting of Jesus my grandmother has in her living room lol.

You're just the thousandth to make this connection :)

But that said, it would be interesting to analyze from a phenotypic point of view the archetypal representation around which the artists converged since the Middle Ages to represent the son of God by Europeanising this Levantine Semitic.

[Damião de Góis]

Just out of curiosity, I would like to know your experte estimate ... :)

I wouldn't be able to give a proper estimate and i've lived here my whole life.




But the questions you ask here are in line with my hypothesis about this distortion in the representation of what an average Portuguese looks like.

My interpretation is that the average Iberian being phenotypically close to the average French, to distinguish the two, people tend to exaggerate their difference along a southwestern / northeastern axis, overvaluing the trans-Mediterranean component of the Iberians and, symmetrically, the North Atlantic component of the French.
Now, from the point of view of a Frenchman, one identifies a Portuguese with what distinguishes him most from the phenotype that these two populations have in common, namely, with the trans-mediterranid and slightly Arab component that the Iberians share with north Africans. And the same goes for the point of view of Portuguese living in France, especially when they come close to the Southern phenotype in question (which is the case of my paternal family, and most Portuguese who told me that I didn’t look like a Portuguese).

Perhaps there is also a socio-cultural reason. Being very little identified with my origins, my lifestyle and my tastes/values are moving away from the socio-cultural norms that homogenize the Portuguese environment that I have rubbed shoulders with (rather uneducated and chauvinistic people in general), which certainly reinforces the fact that most people don’t spontaneously associate me with a Portuguese.

Looking for information to get a more global and objective idea of what the Portuguese look like, I came across this page that you may know : http://portuguesephenotype.blogspot.fr/2013/05/the-phenotype-of-portuguese.html
Overall, the content of this page is in line with what I observe, except for the frequency of blond hair (20%). But it’s specified that the country is heterogeneous when it comes to the distribution of blonde hair, and – obviously - my sample of Portuguese doesn’t include individuals from these regions where blondness is more common than elsewhere.

Out of curiosity, I counted the Portuguese who are part of my reference sample, and arrived at 70, I could calculate this distribution:
light blond: 0%
between ash/dirty blond and dark blond (like me): 5%
light brown: 10%
brown: 60-65%
black: 20-25%
I know that my sample is not generalizable but it can give an idea of my Portuguese environment.

Regarding the face gallery, I find it representative of Iberian in general, but not necessarily in terms of proportion (relative to my personal sample, which has many more trans-Mediterranean types).
Some of this faces, without being really representative of the average Portuguese, are nevertheless very close to somes features that I have met only among the Portuguese. This is the kind of face, when I see it, I can hardly imagine that another language than Portuguese can come out of their mouths (or at least Spanish).
Some examples:


I really can't argue about how things are in France or about the portuguese community there. Both those subjects are out of my league. As for the website, in my opinion it's a good gallery, that's basically the type of people you'll see here.



And to illustrate what I mean by Portuguese looking MENA, I found these specimens among the footballers (making sure that they were born in Portugal and that their surname was Portuguese):


This is where we disagree. Having a portuguese surname and being born in Portugal doesn't mean anything, our own prime minister is an example of that.
The two examples you posted appear to be mixed. They most likely have a mixed grandfather or something like that. I think there is a slight possibility that the first could be an atypical dark type but the second one looks clearly mixed (if not completely foreign). That's my opinion as someone who lives here. I would be surprised if other portuguese members don't have the same opinion.
If these are common in France among the portuguese community then that is strange indeed.

Compare the footballer in question with some portuguese music bands:

http://www.movenoticias.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Azeitonas-960x576.jpg

https://artesonora.pt/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/quinta_do_bill.jpg

http://images-cdn.impresa.pt/caras/2014-05-19-img_6522.jpg?mw=820

https://ssl.c.photoshelter.com/img-get2/I000059iMlezIpPY/fit=1000x750/Ruben-Ribeiro-01.jpg

[Asefa]

Le delire ici c'est un melange de personnes peu sûr d'elle meme mélé a un sentiment d'appartenance à une hypothétique race nordique, remontées et véhémentes contre les personnes qui ne ressemblent pas et/ou n'argumentent pas dans cette direction, et à ce que la majorité ici vont considérer comme le standard Européen. C'est en gros le pitch sustains du forum pour aller vite.
C'est bien ce qui m'a semblé ouais.


Ca fait presque 2 ans que je suis hais et considéré comme un Maghrébin alors imagine un peu l'orientation du forum
Faudrait que je vois d'autres photos de toi pour évaluer ton degré de ressemblance avec ces méprisables non-européens :)
Mais c'est vrai que, de ce que j'ai pu voir, les Italiens du sud et les Siciliens semblent encore plus typés MENA que la frange la plus trans-méditerranéenne des Portugais. Avec une tendance peut-être un peu plus Levantine/sémite que Berbère (par rapport aux Ibériens).

En passant, comme tu m'as l'air affûté niveau typage phénotypiques et que moi je débute, si tu as des liens/sources compilant des exemples représentatifs pour chaque types (autres que les morphs du site humanphentotypes), je suis preneur !

[barkoo]

Faudrait que je vois d'autres photos de toi pour évaluer ton degré de ressemblance avec ces méprisables non-européens :)
Mais c'est vrai que, de ce que j'ai pu voir, les Italiens du sud et les Siciliens semblent encore plus typés MENA que la frange la plus trans-méditerranéenne des Portugais. Avec une tendance peut-être un peu plus Levantine/sémite que Berbère (par rapport aux Ibériens).

En passant, comme tu m'as l'air affûté niveau typage phénotypiques et que moi je débute, si tu as des liens/sources compilant des exemples représentatifs pour chaque types (autres que les morphs du site humanphentotypes), je suis preneur !

Je t'enverrai des phots en PM tu me diras ce que tu en penses, mais je suis un classique Med comme ils disent mdr.
Sinon tu a le SNPA ici mais le lien a l'air mort. Tu as de très bon posts sur AS aussi, une orientation plus sérieuse selon moi, ici c'est un peu n'importe quoi, il est quasiment impossible d'avoir une discussion sensée sans être poursuivis ou flooder par des trolls bidons. Tu peux néanmoins tomber sur des fils intéressants mais la plupart du temps c'est du grand guignol !

[Asefa]

The two examples you posted appear to be mixed. They most likely have a mixed grandfather or something like that. I think there is a slight possibility that the first could be an atypical dark type but the second one looks clearly mixed (if not completely foreign).
As far as I know, there is not - significantly - North African immigration to Portugal. No ? This kind of mixing can take place in France where the two communities are numerous, and eventually return to Portugal, but it seems to me a rare event.


Compare the footballer in question with some portuguese music bands:

The examples that you show me are part of the Portuguese without ambiguity on this specific point (with the exception, maybe, of the guy on the right on the third picture), and I know that they are representative of what we find in Portugal. I have been there more than twenty times since childhood and I have stayed there several months consecutively these last ten years (but my family being grouped in a perimeter going nearly from Coimbra to Setubal, I know very badly or not at all the rest of the country.



The two footballers that I gave as an example are extreme cases, but I know a lot of Portuguese who tend more towards this guy than the average Portuguese in the gallery of the web site.

I have just found other Portuguese footballers (with Portuguese surname) of the exotic type in question, who don't seem to be Brazilian or mixed with sub-Saharan old colonnies (some evoke me vaguely gypsies, eventually):
http://www.image-heberg.fr/files/15210680481007975633.jpg http://www.image-heberg.fr/files/15210671331115280757.jpg http://www.image-heberg.fr/files/15210670181662418597.jpg http://www.image-heberg.fr/files/15210670531942709145.jpg http://www.image-heberg.fr/files/15210680891446308254.jpg

[Hadouken]

^ no way man . seriously especially this guy

he cant be full ethnic portuguese . I wonder if you are just joking around

http://www.image-heberg.fr/files/1521066961706129813.jpg

[Damião de Góis]

As far as I know, there is not - significantly - North African immigration to Portugal. No ? This kind of mixing can take place in France where the two communities are numerous, and eventually return to Portugal, but it seems to me a rare event.


I never mentioned North African immigration, i meant immigration from the ex-colonies, all these people have portuguese surnames. Another possibility is gypsy admixture. A lot of people from the ex-colonies that returned after the 1974 revolution were mixed too. For example, our former prime minister and his mixed wife:

http://www.iol.pt/multimedia/oratvi/multimedia/imagem/id/13419997/800

Their daughter would probably be used as an ambiguous portuguese type in the future if they weren't famous.

As for the latest examples, the first guy looks foreign to me:

https://cdn-images.rtp.pt/icm/noticias/images/f4/f4434e6f9b65f5f5248045d2eee7c2e7?860&rect=0,0,800,439&w=860

The last two, i don't know their family tree but i would guess Esgaio to be gypsy and Guedes i think he's native.

[Root]

I understand.
But having only my web cam to photograph me, the poor quality and the lack of lighting forces me to lessen the shade and slightly increase the definition.
I took new pictures from different angles in the best technical conditions I currently have.
Hoping that this facilitates the classification. Maybe there will be changes of opinion




Atlanto-Med. I agree with some members about your appearance that you look like a European version of Jesus in the pictures of late antiquity..