Where would more of these Epirote Greeks pass: Poland or Malta?

[Tooting Carmen]

This is supposed to be one of the fairest and most Slavic-influenced regions of Greece. Hmm...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDL2_kFmmes

[Bell Beaker]

Malta...

PS: The cerimonies and the dances/traditions sound very Middle Eastern/Jewish..... :confused:

[Sikeliot]

They don't look Maltese. They look more Italian, but more like people from Marche down to Apulia, not Calabrese/Sicilian/etc.

The darker ones look more like mestizos, Turks, and Iranians rather than Levantine, but the lightest types do in fact look similar to Poles.

[Tooting Carmen]

Malta...

PS: The cerimonies and the dances/traditions sound very Middle Eastern/Jewish..... :confused:

Shh. Don't say that. As we all know in this forum, Greeks are ideal Europeans compared to those Lebanese-looking Southern Italians and Algerian-looking Portuguese. xD

[Sikeliot]

Shh. Don't say that. As we all know in this forum, Greeks are ideal Europeans compared to those Lebanese-looking Southern Italians and Algerian-looking Portuguese. xD

That dance and music is actually very close to that of Albania. It is very close to Tosk Albanian culture. Not saying whether or not this is "European" or not, but the culture in that video is much more like typical Albanian culture rather than typical Greek.

Also, Macedonia/Thessaly/Thrace have more Slavic input than Epirus, so the premise of the question is wrong.

[Bell Beaker]

Shh. Don't say that. As we all know in this forum, Greeks are ideal Europeans compared to those Lebanese-looking Southern Italians and Algerian-looking Portuguese. xD

Well, what amazed me the most was the cerimonies, the way of dancing and the music, I thought I was watching a Bar Mitzva in Tel Aviv or something like that. Maybe it's the Pre-Ottoman Eastern Mediterranean shared Orthodox Christian culture that survived in Greece.

[Sikeliot]

Well, what amazed me the most was the cerimonies, the way of dancing and the music, I thought I was watching a Bar Mitzva in Tel Aviv or something like that. Maybe it's the Pre-Ottoman Eastern Mediterranean shared Orthodox Christian culture that survived in Greece.

No, that is not what it is. Epirus is close to Albania and these dances are exactly the same as what is present in Albania, Arvanite communities, etc. Any Albanian user would confirm this.

[Bell Beaker]

No, that is not what it is. Epirus is close to Albania and these dances are exactly the same as what is present in Albania, Arvanite communities, etc. Any Albanian user would confirm this.

Once in the local TV here a Portuguese artist living in Greece gave an interview and he said that Greeks tend to be very Nationalist and they would claim any aspect of their culture as "Uniquely Greek" even though most of it is of Middle Eastern Origin or Ottoman. For example the "Greek" yogurt was brought from the Middle East originaly.

[Odin]

Intermediate.

[Sikeliot]

Once in the local TV here a Portuguese artist living in Greece gave an interview and he said that Greeks tend to be very Nationalist and they would claim any aspect of their culture as "Uniquely Greek" even though most of it is of Middle Eastern Origin or Ottoman. For example the "Greek" yogurt was brought from the Middle East originaly.

Greek culture is native to the Balkans. The same cultural elements can be found in Albania and Bulgaria.

See this.. this is Albanian dancing. See any differences to the above? I don't. Greeks got it FROM Albanians: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wp3NFCGsmoo

[nafz]

Once in the local TV here a Portuguese artist living in Greece gave an interview and he said that Greeks tend to be very Nationalist and they would claim any aspect of their culture as "Uniquely Greek" even though most of it is of Middle Eastern Origin or Ottoman. For example the "Greek" yogurt was brought from the Middle East originaly.

I am not sure what your point is. Greek culture predates the Ottomans and is not related to the Middle east.
Unless what you are really saying is that the Acropolis was built by Middle Easterners / West Asians.

[Tooting Carmen]

The only Poles who even begin to remotely resemble Greeks are from the Carpathian region. By contrast, most of Poland is of similar pigmentation to Central Germany (though with more Slavic features, of course).

[Sikeliot]

The only Poles who even begin to remotely resemble Greeks are from the Carpathian region. By contrast, most of Poland is of similar pigmentation to Central Germany (though with more Slavic features, of course).


They don't look Maltese though. Maltese are from southwest (RE: the exotic part of) Sicily and look more Semitic.

[The Blade]

In Malta.

[Bell Beaker]

I am not sure what your point is. Greek culture predates the Ottomans and is not related to the Middle east.
Unless what you are really saying is that the Acropolis was built by Middle Easterners / West Asians.

Ultimately many of Europe's culture comes from the Middle East, even civilization. Minoans were the cradle of the Western Civilization and they were heavily based on the Mesopotamian and the Fertile Crescent cultures, Roman Civilization and Mithology was also mostly based on Ancient Greek Civilization, Jesus Christ was a Middle Eastern.....

[nafz]

Ultimately many of Europe's culture comes from the Middle East, even civilization. Minoans were the cradle of the Western Civilization and they were heavily based on the Mesopotamian and the Fertile Crescent cultures, Roman Civilization and Mithology was also mostly based on Ancient Greek Civilization, Jesus Christ was a Middle Eastern.....

Nope, Minoans were Native to Greece. Minoan Civilization Originated in Europe.

Western Civilization begun in Europe not in the middle east, sorry.

[Sikeliot]

Ultimately many of Europe's culture comes from the Middle East, even civilization. Minoans were the cradle of the Western Civilization and they were heavily based on the Mesopotamian and the Fertile Crescent cultures, Roman Civilization and Mithology was also mostly based on Ancient Greek Civilization, Jesus Christ was a Middle Eastern.....

Genetically, Minoans were Sardinian-like people who were influenced by a migration out of the Caucasus (the same one that makes up 1/3 of SE European DNA today). They were not Middle Eastern.

[Tooting Carmen]

They don't look Maltese though. Maltese are from southwest (RE: the exotic part of) Sicily and look more Semitic.

OK: do people from Molise and Abruzzo look more similar to Maltese or to Bavarians? Same idea.

[Bell Beaker]

Nope, Minoans were Native to Greece. Minoan Civilization Originated in Europe.

Western Civilization begun in Europe not in the middle east, sorry.

The individuals yes, but maybe some merchants and sailors from more eastern lands sailed there and influenced it. Just like that......

[Sikeliot]

OK: do people from Molise and Abruzzo look more similar to Maltese or to Bavarians? Same idea.

Malta. But they also look significantly more Bavarian like than do Maltese.

Same with Epirotes. Even if they looked closer to Maltese than to Poles, they look closer to Poles (and less like Levantines) than Maltese do. Maltese are just an exotic subset of Sicily.

[Bell Beaker]

Genetically, Minoans were Sardinian-like people who were influenced by a migration out of the Caucasus (the same one that makes up 1/3 of SE European DNA today). They were not Middle Eastern.

You don't need to be genetically X to be culturaly X.

For example a Numidian Citizen in the Roman Times was considered as Roman an average person living in Latium, probably both spoke Latin and the Numidian guy would adopt many Roman traditions.

[nafz]

The individuals yes, but maybe some merchants and sailors from more eastern lands sailed there and influenced it. Just like that......

That's like saying Iberian culture was influenced by Greeks because some Greek merchants and sailors landed in Iberia -which is documented- .

[Bell Beaker]

That's like saying Iberian culture was influenced by Greeks because a few Greek sailors landed in Iberia -which is documented- .

Well, I believe a Civilization is not born out of anything. In the beggining of human agriculture and the first Civilizations were mostly if not all located east of Europe (Egypt, Mesopotamia, India, China....), I believe let's say, a CULTURAL and Technological wind paved the way for the creation of the Greek Civilization, ie Minoans Myceneans.

[nafz]

Well, I believe a Civilization is not born out of anything. In the beggining of human agriculture and the first Civilizations were mostly if not all located east of Europe (Egypt, Mesopotamia, India, China....), I believe let's say, a CULTURAL and Technological wind paved the way for the creation of the Greek Civilization, ie Minoans Myceneans.

Of course civilizations are not born out of nothing and one civilization may influence another (up to a point) I agree. My point is that western civilization is native to Europe despite the fact there were other civilizations prior to it in other continents and parts of the world.

[Kouros]

Poland or Malta? That's so extreme. Sikeliot's retardation is brushing off on you.

[Teucer]

Genetically, Minoans were Sardinian-like people who were influenced by a migration out of the Caucasus (the same one that makes up 1/3 of SE European DNA today). They were not Middle Eastern.

They, like the Mycenaeans, were also influenced by people from Iran and Armenia, so they did have Middle Eastern/West Asian influence.

https://phys.org/news/2017-08-civilizations-greece-revealing-stories-science.html

[Sikeliot]

They, like the Mycenaeans, were also influenced by people from Iran and Armenia, so they did have Middle Eastern/West Asian influence.

https://phys.org/news/2017-08-civilizations-greece-revealing-stories-science.html

All of Southern Europe at the time had this ,except probably Iberia.

[Teucer]

All of Southern Europe at the time had this ,except probably Iberia.

At the same level?

[Teucer]

All of Southern Europe at the time had this ,except probably Iberia.

And just because it happened all over doesn't mean you should ignore it. People on here obsess over that Cretan woman sample for having 10% extra steppe (i can't remember exactly) but totally ignore that they also received (probably more) Middle Eastern influence from Iran and Armenia. If I recall correctly combined it was somehwere around 20%

Edit: Not the Cretan woman, but the Minoans and Mycenaeans as groups received more Middle Eastern influence than Steppe, but people ignore it

[Sikeliot]

At the same level?

Yes. Pre-Italic Sicilians/Maltese, Mycenaeans, and Minoans were all similar so I assume Albania, Thracians, etc. were too.

[Teucer]

Yes. Pre-Italic Sicilians/Maltese, Mycenaeans, and Minoans were all similar so I assume Albania, Thracians, etc. were too.

Was the Iran and Armenia ancestry of the Minoans and Mycenaeans combined more than the Steppe?

[kleenex]

Greek culture is native to the Balkans. The same cultural elements can be found in Albania and Bulgaria.

See this.. this is Albanian dancing. See any differences to the above? I don't. Greeks got it FROM Albanians: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wp3NFCGsmoo

Epirote music is really close to Albanian folk music but Arvanites (particularly in the Peloponnese) share the same dances/music/traditions as non Arvanite Peloponnesians. Yes mainland Greek traditional folk music has Ottoman/Turkish influence but the sound is uniquely Greek and the connection to pre-Ottoman traditions and even the music of the Ancients is fairly strong.

[kleenex]

Malta...

PS: The cerimonies and the dances/traditions sound very Middle Eastern/Jewish..... :confused:

To the untrained ear yes but there is a pretty vast difference depending on what area of Greece were talking about. Greek mainland music was influenced by the Ottomans (Turkish classical music) but a distinct folk style (with a connection to ancient Greek music of the classical period) was present well before the Ottomans entered Greece.

[Sikeliot]

To the untrained ear yes but there is a pretty vast difference depending on what area of Greece were talking about. Greek mainland music was influenced by the Ottomans (Turkish classical music) but a distinct folk style (with a connection to ancient Greek music of the classical period) was present well before the Ottomans entered Greece.

On the other hand I would say music from many of the islands (Cyclades, Ionian, even Dodecanese) sounds more like some types of Italian music (or maybe the Italian music sounds Greek?). Cretan music also is very distinct to me, not quite like anything else.

[Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin]

Espirote greece