Regarding the Greek_Cretan sample on MDLP World

[Lavrentis]

So I tested some Cretan GEDmatch kits on MDLP World and around half of them didn't even cluster with Cretans, they got Cretan at around a distance of 7:

1)

1 Jew_Romania 4.06
2 Greek_East 4.66
3 Greek_Center 5.56
4 Italian-Center 5.92
5 Greek_North 6.27
6 Greek_South 6.28
7 Greek_Cretan 6.99

2)

Population (source) Distance
1 Jew_Romania 3.94
2 Greek_East 6.61
3 Greek_South 7.31
4 Greek_Center 7.42
5 Greek_North 7.46
6 Italian-Center 7.59
7 Greek_Cretan 7.7

3)

1 Greek_East 3.39
2 Jew_Romania 3.78
3 Italian-Center 3.85
4 Greek_Center 3.9
5 Greek_South 4.15
6 Greek_North 4.45
7 Italian-South 6.39
8 Sicilian 6.46
9 Ashkenazim_V 6.94
10 Greek_Cretan 8.62

This one gets Cretans at 4:

1 Jew_Romania 4.28
2 Sicilian 4.37
3 Greek_East 4.68
4 Greek_Cretan 4.92

Thoughts? The other 2 samples actually get Greek_Cretan at 1 though.

[Sikeliot]

On the other hand I have a lot of Sicilians who get "Cretan" first.

I suspect MDLP K23 and MDLP World's "Cretan" sample are from a part of Crete highly divergent from the rest of the island, and not typical for it.

I am finding MOST Cretans plot slightly north of Sicilians.

[Bobby Martnen]

Where do the calc creators get all their samples from, anyway?

[Lavrentis]

On the other hand I have a lot of Sicilians who get "Cretan" first.

I suspect MDLP K23 and MDLP World's "Cretan" sample are from a part of Crete highly divergent from the rest of the island, and not typical for it.

I am finding MOST Cretans plot slightly north of Sicilians.

Maybe they included samples of other islander Greeks in their Cretan sample?

[Lavrentis]

Where do the calc creators get all their samples from, anyway?

No idea

[Sikeliot]

Here are some Sicilians on the calculator for comparison.

Agrigento:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Jew_Romania 3.67
2 Greek_Cretan 6.5
3 Sicilian 6.63
4 Greek_East 7.02
5 Italian-Center 7.61


Palermo:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek_Cretan 4.51
2 Sicilian 4.7
3 Jew_Romania 4.71
4 Greek_East 5.96
5 Italian-Center 6.64
6 Italian-South 7.01


Palermo:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Sicilian 4.29
2 Jew_Romania 4.37
3 Greek_Cretan 4.82
4 Greek_East 5.26
5 Italian-Center 5.94


Messina:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek_Cretan 4.76
2 Jew_Romania 4.86
3 Sicilian 4.88
4 Jew_France 6.67
5 Jew_Italia 6.85


Caltanissetta:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek_Cretan 3.94
2 Sicilian 4.62
3 Greek_East 4.95
4 Jew_Romania 5.63
5 Italian-Center 5.97


etc

[Sikeliot]

Maybe they included samples of other islander Greeks in their Cretan sample?

Doubtful. "Greek East" is other islands.

[Lavrentis]

Here are some Sicilians on the calculator for comparison.

Agrigento:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Jew_Romania 3.67
2 Greek_Cretan 6.5
3 Sicilian 6.63
4 Greek_East 7.02
5 Italian-Center 7.61


Palermo:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek_Cretan 4.51
2 Sicilian 4.7
3 Jew_Romania 4.71
4 Greek_East 5.96
5 Italian-Center 6.64
6 Italian-South 7.01


Palermo:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Sicilian 4.29
2 Jew_Romania 4.37
3 Greek_Cretan 4.82
4 Greek_East 5.26
5 Italian-Center 5.94


Messina:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek_Cretan 4.76
2 Jew_Romania 4.86
3 Sicilian 4.88
4 Jew_France 6.67
5 Jew_Italia 6.85


Caltanissetta:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek_Cretan 3.94
2 Sicilian 4.62
3 Greek_East 4.95
4 Jew_Romania 5.63
5 Italian-Center 5.97


etc

Most of them are closer to Italian-Center than Italian-South, interesting

[Sikeliot]

Most of them are closer to Italian-Center than Italian-South, interesting


What it seems is that Cretan sample falls more into the Italian clusters rather than the other Greek ones.

[Lavrentis]

What it seems is that Cretan sample falls more into the Italian clusters rather than the other Greek ones.

That's weird as well, Cretans should be closer to other Greek islanders first

[Sikeliot]

That's weird as well, Cretans should be closer to other Greek islanders first

That Cretan sample is more Middle Eastern than any of the other Greek clusters on that calculator, and I suspect this is why it is coming up highly for the Sicilians I put through.

Oddly enough there are also Sicilians who score Greek North before Sicily or Crete. These are mostly Syracusans.

[Lavrentis]

That Cretan sample is more Middle Eastern than any of the other Greek clusters on that calculator, and I suspect this is why it is coming up highly for the Sicilians I put through.

Oddly enough there are also Sicilians who score Greek North before Sicily or Crete. These are mostly Syracusans.

Can you post some mainland south Italians?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Kouros]

It's calculator effect (http://bga101.blogspot.ca/2016/09/orcadians-k15-and-calculator-effect.html). It affects all calculators except Eurogenes. I believe it's worse on MDLP than any other though.

So the oracles are useless as standalone information. You should be comparing the results to each other instead.

[Lavrentis]

It's calculator effect (http://bga101.blogspot.ca/2016/09/orcadians-k15-and-calculator-effect.html). It affects all calculators except Eurogenes. I believe it's worse on MDLP than any other though.

So the oracles are useless as standalone information. You should be comparing the results to each other instead.

Thanks for the info


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Lucas]

Thanks for the info


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I know two academic samples for Crete. Possibly used in MDLP.

Irakleioy
Lassithi