New study on Iberian Peninsula genetics

[Sebastianus Rex]

Why is what people wrote several hundreds years ago matter more than actual DNA tested? I can think of many reasons why it's higher in NW Iberia. Maybe a group of Moriscos who managed to settle in some small villages? Bottlenecking? Small part movements that weren't documented? There are many probabilities that maybe are not documented at all.

Those possibilities arent valid one you study a bit more deeply the History of the period, context of reconquista and crusades.
The mindset of the populations by that time was extremely hostile to moriscos and conversos. Neither Christians of neighbouring populations, neither local administrative organs, neither feudal lords would accept the establishment of contingents of those groups, they would be simply slaughtered or expelled again and again. Many towns/cities/municipalities have as their coat of arms beheaded moorish heads, a knight with a sword killing moors or similar stuff.
It is also documented that many towns had local laws forbidding the fixation and occupation of lands to moriscos and conversos. A few years ago was theorized by some scholars that the high frequency of E1b1b1 among the Pasiegos (mountainous region in Cantabria that was virtually untouched by the Moorish incursions) could be attributed to a migration of moriscos escaping after the purge of Alpujarras, but then again was debunked as an impossible theory since there were written local archives forbiding the fixation of moriscos and conversos in those lands and besides local inhabitants used pork on most of their local dishes.
Its nothing new, always come up scholars eith agendas trying to push speculative theories that end up debunked sooner or later.
Following historical evidence, the only places that significant contingents of moriscos and conversos could be allowed to concentrate would only be in specific ghetto like neihgbourhoods (mourarias and juderias) in some of the larger cities.

[Iẓeḍwan n Nanna-Tuda]

I’ve always believed the inquisition was somewhat of a genocide but if you invade other people’s countries you deserve to suffer the consequences that come afterwards when you’re on the losing side, has there been dna studies on “Andalusian” families, primarily their y dna I mean if they’ve been in Morocco for the last 5 hundred shouldn’t they be mixed with the rest of the Moroccans

That's TOTALLY off topic.
Invasions have always existed and will always exist.
But the point is : an important part of the native Iberians embraced Islam, adopted both Arabic language and Islamic culture (which has indeed a strong Byzantine and Persian substrate).
Was it still an exogenous element 5 centuries later ? Let me remind you that Romanization process wasn't totally different. If we follow your logic, let's add : poor native Iberians, poor Gauls:picard1:

Anyways, the migrations toward North Africa have started much before 1492, and the areas/cities where Andalusi migrants have settled are known.
In Northwestern Morocco (Tetuan and Chaouen known for their important Andalusi population), E-M81 reaches very high levels : more than 90%. I suspect E-V65 to have non negligible presence as well.
The other results from Northern Morocco also include a few I2A and R1b.
Andalusi families from Rabat and Fes are J2 and R1B.

Andalusi didn't reach the Atlas mountains, or at least not enough to justify the 4,3% of G carriers found there (N:69).

For now, I have two NA Y-matches. Both of them are from Berber areas where the Andalusi impact is - let's say - negligible.
One of them has 37 markers and when we compare them with the Iberians ones, the TMRCA is always older than 2000 years.
2000 years from 37... and very likely more than 3000 years from 111.

[Token]

Again no, it's not that easy and it's definitely not just the North African that shifts them away from the French. The French have a much higher Steppe/Indo-European input(Iberians at 29%, French at 42% Scandos at 51%). You can't model Iberians as France + some North African. You need decent chunk of extra ENF(ie Sardinian-like).
You actually can. By the way, can you show me where you got these numbers? I have never seen a model showing French as 42% steppe, they are more like ~36% on average.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gzxMCTBTJo0NZ5jsTXnM2N6mkbBUUTXHLRgOw2CqQb4/edit#gid=515556785

[FilhoV]

Which GedMatch calculator shows Steppe ancestry

[ADonkeyBrain]

I do not believe Iberians are really 20% Italian.

Yes, those shouldn't be taken too literally in the first place. As they state:

"For all six Iberian clusters the largest contribution comes from France, with smaller inferred contributions that relate to present-day Italian and Irish samples. Because these contributions are present and dominate overall ancestry throughout Spain, they might represent ancient ancestry components, rather than recent migration."

Danes aren't actually "40% British" either, for example, as they made that similar point in a previous paper:

"Even though it is tempting to explain the admixture proportions...as the result of historical admixing events, an alternative approach is to interpret such proportions as “mixture profiles”"

"7.3 Discussion of ancestry profile results" in the current paper is all worth a read.

[Aren]

You actually can. By the way, can you show me where you got these numbers? I have never seen a model showing French as 42% steppe, they are more like ~36% on average.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gzxMCTBTJo0NZ5jsTXnM2N6mkbBUUTXHLRgOw2CqQb4/edit#gid=515556785

It depends on what you are using as Steppe, I'm using Yamnaya and I get Iberians at 30%(you get at 25-26%) and East French at 42%. Besides I don't think using a pure West African source to model Iberians is accurate. Clearly the SSA in Iberia is from North Africans and not directly from West Africa(Iberians usually score higher Red Sea which is what North Africans also score high of, but not West Africans). They show it even in this study. Also biologist Carles Lalueza-Fox in one of his recent papers also came to the conclusion that Iberians are around 30% Yamnaya, just like I'm getting.

"distance%=2.2857"

French_East

Barcin_N,45.6
Yamnaya_Samara,23.2
Yamnaya_Kalmykia,19.2
WHG,12

"distance%=3.1615"

Spanish_Aragon

Barcin_N,54.2
Yamnaya_Samara,26.6
WHG,12.8
Mozabite,3.4
Yamnaya_Kalmykia,3

"distance%=2.3004"

Spanish_Extremadura

Barcin_N,49.8
Yamnaya_Samara,29.2
WHG,10.8
Mozabite,10.2

And infact you can't use French + North African to model Iberians. As you can see the WHG is about equal in both populations and adding North African is gonna decrease it heavily.

[Friends of Oliver Society]

For now, I have two NA Y-matches. Both of them are from Berber areas where the Andalusi impact is - let's say - negligible.
One of them has 37 markers and when we compare them with the Iberians ones, the TMRCA is always older than 2000 years.
2000 years from 37... and very likely more than 3000 years from 111.[/FONT]

That's interesting.

[Leto]

Which GedMatch calculator shows Steppe ancestry
MDLP K16.

[Iẓeḍwan n Nanna-Tuda]

That's interesting.

Thanks.
Here are some theories about how my clade arrived from Iberia to North Africa...

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?235873-G-Z27232-a-North-African-clade

[FilhoV]

MDLP K16.

My results

Population
Amerindian 0.12
Ancestor -
Steppe 17.38
Indian -
Arctic -
Australian 0.12
Caucasian 20.27
EastAfrican 1.40
NorthEastEuropean 15.03
NearEast 3.32
Neolithic 35.69
NorthAfrican 5.72
Oceanic -
Siberian -
SouthEastAsian -
Subsaharian 0.96

[Token]

My results

Population
Amerindian 0.12
Ancestor -
Steppe 17.38
Indian -
Arctic -
Australian 0.12
Caucasian 20.27
EastAfrican 1.40
NorthEastEuropean 15.03
NearEast 3.32
Neolithic 35.69
NorthAfrican 5.72
Oceanic -
Siberian -
SouthEastAsian -
Subsaharian 0.96

Horrible calculator, laughable divisions, i strongly advise you to don't give much credit to it. As a Portuguese, you are around 28-30% steppe/Yamnaya.

[Thot Whisperer]

That's TOTALLY off topic.
Invasions have always existed and will always exist.
But the point is : an important part of the native Iberians embraced Islam, adopted both Arabic language and Islamic culture (which has indeed a strong Byzantine and Persian substrate).
Was it still an exogenous element 5 centuries later ? Let me remind you that Romanization process wasn't totally different. If we follow your logic, let's add : poor native Iberians, poor Gauls:picard1:

Anyways, the migrations toward North Africa have started much before 1492, and the areas/cities where Andalusi migrants have settled are known.
In Northwestern Morocco (Tetuan and Chaouen known for their important Andalusi population), E-M81 reaches very high levels : more than 90%. I suspect E-V65 to have non negligible presence as well.
The other results from Northern Morocco also include a few I2A and R1b.
Andalusi families from Rabat and Fes are J2 and R1B.

Andalusi didn't reach the Atlas mountains, or at least not enough to justify the 4,3% of G carriers found there (N:69).

For now, I have two NA Y-matches. Both of them are from Berber areas where the Andalusi impact is - let's say - negligible.
One of them has 37 markers and when we compare them with the Iberians ones, the TMRCA is always older than 2000 years.
2000 years from 37... and very likely more than 3000 years from 111.
No the Andalusia people adopted Islam because that was the only way they wouldn’t be taxed to death, the moors were hiding behind their religion but they were no different than European colonial oppressors who invaded other people’s countries, if you wanna maintain peace within your society you deal with the enemy within, everything that happened to them they deserved it, they have no right calling them Andalusians when you live amongst Berbers and marrying them it’s quite pathetic really

[Cristiano viejo]

No the Andalusia people adopted Islam because that was the only way they wouldn’t be taxed to death, the moors were hiding behind their religion but they were no different than European colonial oppressors who invaded other people’s countries, if you wanna maintain peace within your society you deal with the enemy within, everything that happened to them they deserved it, they have no right calling them Andalusians when you live amongst Berbers and marrying them it’s quite pathetic really

But people have to take in mind that current Andalusians have literally nothing to do with the people that lived in Andalusia when Muslims ruled this region.

Current Andalusians arrived there when Andalusia was reconquered.

The people that lived under Islam and became Muslims have nothing to do with current Spaniards. They (or their descendants better said) were killed or expelled by Christians when the Reconquista.

[Bobby Martnen]

But people have to take in mind that current Andalusians have literally nothing to do with the people that lived in Andalusia when Muslims ruled this region.

Current Andalusians arrived there when Andalusia was reconquered.

The people that lived under Islam and became Muslims have nothing to do with current Spaniards. They (or their descendants better said) were killed or expelled by Christians when the Reconquista.

You're a Moor, though. That's why your so swarthy.

[Thot Whisperer]

But people have to take in mind that current Andalusians have literally nothing to do with the people that lived in Andalusia when Muslims ruled this region.

Current Andalusians arrived there when Andalusia was reconquered.

The people that lived under Islam and became Muslims have nothing to do with current Spaniards. They (or their descendants better said) were killed or expelled by Christians when the Reconquista.

What about Murcia, was that region repopulated as well, also the people from albacete do they identify with Castilians or Murcia

[Cristiano viejo]

You're a Moor, though. That's why your so swarthy.
It is not what people dictaminated: they voted you as swarthier :mocking:


What about Murcia, was that region repopulated as well, also the people from albacete do they identify with Castilians or Murcia

People from Albacete identify with what they are: Castilians. They and Murcians dislike each other.

What I have explained above happened too in Castilla la Mancha and Murcia.

[Bobby Martnen]

It is not what people dictaminated: they voted you as swarthier :mocking:


Your mom triple gay

[Friends of Oliver Society]

But people have to take in mind that current Andalusians have literally nothing to do with the people that lived in Andalusia when Muslims ruled this region.

Current Andalusians arrived there when Andalusia was reconquered.

That's nonsense. People tend to, you know, convert and there certainly was a great deal of conversion. You try to make it out to be a racial war.


The people that lived under Islam and became Muslims have nothing to do with current Spaniards. They (or their descendants better said) were killed or expelled by Christians when the Reconquista.

You confuse what happened in the late 16th century and early 17th century with the expulsion of the Moriscos with previous territory taken over by Christians. You don't read of mass expulsions of people prior and you certainly hear of Moriscos living in other places that fell under Christian rule during the Middle Ages. Madrid, for example, which was a small town in the 15th century had a small Morisco population.

There was also a significant Morisco population living in Aragon that wasn't expelled. The reason why the Moriscos in Granada and Valencia were expelled in mass was because they were too concentrated in those areas and so they caused a serious problem when they rebelled. I've been to Granada. I can see why guerrilla tactics would be effective there.

[Friends of Oliver Society]

That's nonsense. People tend to, you know, convert and there certainly was a great deal of conversion. You try to make it out to be a racial war.



You confuse what happened in the late 16th century and early 17th century with the expulsion of the Moriscos with previous territory taken over by Christians. You don't read of mass expulsions of people prior and you certainly hear of Moriscos living in other places that fell under Christian rule during the Middle Ages. Madrid, for example, which was a small town in the 15th century had a small Morisco population.

There was also a significant Morisco population living in Aragon that wasn't expelled. The reason why the Moriscos in Granada and Valencia were expelled in mass was because they were too concentrated in those areas and so they caused a serious problem when they rebelled. I've been to Granada. I can see why guerrilla tactics would be effective there.

You're so absurd that even the fact that large groups of Moriscos lived in Granada and Valencia for a century after these regions were reconquered doesn't click anything in that dull skull of yours. If they were allowed to live there before they rebelled (in large numbers) then why would they be eradicated everywhere else or kicked out where they didn't pose a threat?

[caviezel]

You don't need to be a mind reader when you have the power of English comprehension. He was responding to a specific post of mine. Naturally you take that into account when reading what a person writes. It also helps to understand the content that is being written.

I don't think you have to remind me that I fucked your mother to the embarrassment of your father. We're all trying to forget it and move on with our lives. I've turned a new leaf. My days of cuckolding greasy wops is at an end.my mother is rather hypergamous, I doubt she would have ever had a relationship with a piss poor guy from a backward ass place like Galicia where there's no industry or manufacturing economy and the GDP is one of the lowest in the West and people like you are forced to emigrate to the US with a cardboard suitcase and grovel to be accepted by other Americans.

[Friends of Oliver Society]

my mother is rather hypergamous, I doubt she would have ever had a relationship with a piss poor guy from a backward ass place like Galicia where there's no industry or manufacturing economy and the GDP is one of the lowest in the West and people like you are forced to emigrate to the US with a cardboard suitcase and grovel to be accepted by other Americans.

Doubt not possible son of mine. I can buy and sell your mother a hundred times over. In fact, most of my male relatives (and female relatives if they are so inclined) could do the same and most of them live in Galicia. Unlike your parents my parents are hyper ambitious and despite New Jersey being the den of degenerate Italian mobsters were able to do very well for themselves. In fact, one of your relatives tried to extort money from my father once. Needless to say that guinea went home empty handed. Italians aren't known for their courage.

http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/images/d/d2/Gross_domestic_product_%28GDP%29_per_inhabitant%2C _by_NUTS_2_regions%2C_2006_%28PPS_per_inhabitant%2 9.PNG

Maybe you should worry about your southern countrymen. The region that the Italian government plundered in the 19th century to fund industrialization of the north. Italians may be cowards but if you get a large number of them angry they'll build enough courage between them to sneak into your home and cut your throat. Do all you can to keep the southerners ignorant of that theft or you won't have a restful sleep.

[Cristiano viejo]

That's nonsense. People tend to, you know, convert and there certainly was a great deal of conversion. You try to make it out to be a racial war.



You confuse what happened in the late 16th century and early 17th century with the expulsion of the Moriscos with previous territory taken over by Christians. You don't read of mass expulsions of people prior and you certainly hear of Moriscos living in other places that fell under Christian rule during the Middle Ages. Madrid, for example, which was a small town in the 15th century had a small Morisco population.

There was also a significant Morisco population living in Aragon that wasn't expelled. The reason why the Moriscos in Granada and Valencia were expelled in mass was because they were too concentrated in those areas and so they caused a serious problem when they rebelled. I've been to Granada. I can see why guerrilla tactics would be effective there.

Stop saying nonsense. I am not confusing anything. Moriscos living one century in Andalusia have nothing to do with what I have posted: current Andalusians are the descendants of the repopulating process and this is confirmed even by the most prestigious Arabists. This article is just from yesterday, posted in one of the main Spanish newspappers, Abc, from the most famous Spanish Arabist professor, the Galician Serafín Fanjul

a very interesting fragment about:


Se confunden de manera deliberada conceptos tan heterogéneos como territorio, población, raza, religión, cultura y se abusa de la Geografía afirmando, con gran desparpajo, que, puesto que al-Ándalus se hallaba en Europa, los andalusíes eran españoles y, por ende, europeos. Se pueden aceptar licencias poéticas –de poetas, no de políticos– como decir que, después de su marcha, el aire de Andalucía quedó impregnado de acentos, de sentires, etc. de los árabes. Bueno está, como juego literario, pero no infieran de ahí que los repobladores castellanos, gallegos, catalanes, francos, leoneses y demás eran «árabes», o que el céfiro les convirtió en tales. No vemos, quienes tenemos todos nuestros orígenes familiares en el Noroeste de España, qué entronque moruno ni gaitas nos cabe con la Faraona,

http://www.abc.es/historia/abci-al-andalus-no-paraiso-201803161159_noticia.html

[Bulg]

Makes sense that NA admixture is recent.Such low admixture wouldnt have survived for thousand of years.

[Cristiano viejo]

Makes sense that NA admixture is recent.Such low admixture wouldnt have survived for thousand of years.

No, no makes sense since some northern parts score higher than the southern.

And dont say nonsense with that excuse of "thousands of years", when genetic shows admixture of thousands and thousands ago in every population :picard1:

[Vid Flumina]

Belluno (Veneto, north Italy, same region of Padova)

Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 35.84
2 West_Med 20.31
3 Baltic 19.52
4 East_Med 13.54
5 West_Asian 6.39
6 Red_Sea 3.05
7 Oceanian 0.71
8 East_Asian 0.57
9 Northeast_African 0.08



Is he really verified? The guy seems closer to a west German and possibly even a South Dutch than to the Bergamo sample, but I have a hard time telling with K13 you should post his K15.
He's significantly different from the Bellunese kit I have, which clusters with other Venetians.

[Friends of Oliver Society]

Stop saying nonsense. I am not confusing anything. Moriscos living one century in Andalusia have nothing to do with what I have posted: current Andalusians are the descendants of the repopulating process and this is confirmed even by the most prestigious Arabists. This article is just from yesterday, posted in one of the main Spanish newspappers, Abc, from the most famous Spanish Arabist professor, the Galician Serafín Fanjul

a very interesting fragment about:



http://www.abc.es/historia/abci-al-andalus-no-paraiso-201803161159_noticia.html

I don't care what a journalist writes on these type of subjects. How often do they misrepresent what is said or don't even understand what they're writing about?

I prefer historians who actually do the work.

So explain to me why there were communities in Castile if there was a process of wiping or chasing off Muslims throughout the Reconquest.

An actual respected historian: L.P. Harvey.


The earliest example of the Inquisition concerning itself directly with the
converts from Islam in Old Castile, noted by Tapia (1991, 224), is in an
Inquisitorial inspection of 1523 that took place in Segovia. Assimilation
was to be achieved in Segovia by moving the newly converted out of the
districts that had, toward the end of the Middle Ages (in the early 1480s)
been designated as morerıas, ´ and forcing them to live only in houses
where they would have as their next-door neighbors reliable Old Christians.
Neither Old Christian nor ex-Muslim New Christian inhabitants
liked the sound of this. Social engineering of this kind is rarely popular. It
was probably doubly unwelcome among the ex-Muslims because only a
generation or so earlier, in Segovia, when they had been obliged to move
into the morerıa, ´ they had lost money on the consequent enforced property
transactions. Now, fifty years later, the Inquisition was in favor of
shifting them out of their safe retreat—and without compensation. For
Inquisitors and other Christian officials, it was virtually impossible to
get information on what was going on inside the old closely knit communities
such as this morerıa; ´ there was a protective barrier of silence.
The authorities wanted to force the converts out into the open. If the
newly converted were made to live unsegregated lives, the Inquisition
could hope that their Old Christian neighbors would be willing to give
evidence against the incomers (Cardaillac 1979, 21–31).
On the Christian side, there was no unanimity on the question of how
to supervise the converts. The diocesan authorities and, under them, the
parish clergy, saw the catechism of neophytes as essentially a parochial
task. The Inquisitors, so much of whose attention had over the years
been focused on dealing with New Christians from Jewish backgrounds,
were convinced that in dealing with these other New Christians, the exMuslims,
they and not the parish clergy should play the leading role.
http://serai.utsc.utoronto.ca/sites/default/files/biblio/relatedfiles/2012-05-02/Harvey%20-%20Muslims%20in%20Spain.pdf

And this is speaking of Castile, not Andalusia. Despite knowing you're a moron I'm curious to see if you understand the relevance of former Muslims in Castile to your claim that the Muslims were simply wiped out or chased off in Andalusia. There were many Muslims who left but the land wasn't completely depopulated .

Tell me more of these 'prestigious Arabists.' Please amuse me.

[Cristiano viejo]

I don't care what a journalist writes on these type of subjects.
I stopped to read here... you are so ignorant that even dont know this man is the most prominent Spanish Arabist, plus doctorate in Philosophy and Letters (specializing in Semitic philology), university professor, historian, translator, Islamologist, writer... and yes, journalist.

This is even more hilarious taking account he is of Galician descent :picard1:

But well, perhaps you know more than him :rolleyes:

[Lek]

This has been shown by earlier studies and is nothing new or confirmed. Coon predicted these type of things and genetics did not even exist during his time.

They also have some other influence from the Near East.

[Cristiano viejo]

This has been shown by earlier studies and is nothing new or confirmed. Coon predicted these type of things and genetics did not even exist during his time.

They also have some other influence from the Near East.

Damn African e1b1....

[JQP4545]

The Moors never controlled Galicia and yet it has one of the highest amounts of N. African admixture in Spain. We can already find N. African DNA in Neolithic farmers so perhaps their estimates are incorrect.

[Ibericus]

The Pasiegos are autosomally Basque-like. There is a guy in gedmatch who is 3/4 from Castille-Leon and 1/4 from Pasiegos, and on my oracles he gets as first options:

73.0% Spaniard Castilla-León + 27.0% Spanish_Basques @ 4.514,
76.0% Spaniard Castilla-León + 24.0% Spanish_Navarra @ 4.608,


Since he is 3/4 from Castille-Leon we can deduce Pasiegos are autosomally like basques, despite having unusual haplogroups like 18% of R1a and 20% of E-M81.,

[FilhoV]

The impressive thing is how Haplogroup G managed to survive the onslaught of R1B

Don’t get me wrong Haplogroup G took a beating but that fact that close to 10% of the population is G is impressive and they either fought back or retreated to the mountains

Before R1B I imagine I and G the dominate groups

[Ibericus]

The impressive thing is how Haplogroup G managed to survive the onslaught of R1B

Don’t get me wrong Haplogroup G took a beating but that fact that close to 10% of the population is G is impressive and they either fought back or retreated to the mountains

Before R1B I imagine I and G the dominate groups
in the Alps also there is unusual high levels of G

[FilhoV]

in the Alps also there is unusual high levels of G

Yes seems like the G men retreated into the mountains imo

[Token]

Yes seems like the G men retreated into the mountains imo

G2a-L497 spread with Indo-Europeans, no doubt about that. It was found in Cucuteni-Trypillian in Eastern Europe, so U152 IE speakers absorbed it during their expansion to the west and later spread it to the rest of Western Europe through the Hallstatt horizon. The most obvious proof is the G-L497 sample from Hallstatt culture. G-L497 in Iberia peaks in Galicia.

[FilhoV]

G2a-L497 spread with Indo-Europeans, no doubt about that. It was found in Cucuteni-Trypillian in Eastern Europe, so U152 IE speakers absorbed it during their expansion to the west and later spread it to the rest of Western Europe through the Hallstatt horizon. The most obvious proof is the G-L497 sample from Hallstatt culture. G-L497 in Iberia peaks in Galicia.

What’s your thoughts on G - FGC6669

That’s my group and I can’t find info anywhere regarding it

[Imperator Biff]

What’s your thoughts on G - FGC6669

That’s my group and I can’t find info anywhere regarding it

More than likely an ENF derived lineage that spread across with the cardial ware culture.

[Nico Nobrix]

The impressive thing is how Haplogroup G managed to survive the onslaught of R1B

Don’t get me wrong Haplogroup G took a beating but that fact that close to 10% of the population is G is impressive and they either fought back or retreated to the mountains

Before R1B I imagine I and G the dominate groups

So I want to mention as a thing to think about, I am a haplogroup G male, and also a native Portuguese scoring around 4 for the population distance as an average. I definately have North African phenotypes but do not score higher North African than the next Portuguese. Haplogroup G is an old haplogroup and it somehow survived in a dominant R1B environment. Today haplogroup G is found mostly in mountainous regions, peaking in Northern Spain/North Portugal and Switzerland. Is it possible to assume the North African input was from before neolithic times and the mountains of Iberia harbored safety for perhaps people with high North African admixture? Also too it's quite peculiar that "North African" genetic types are found mostly in Galicia and Asturias and Portugal, where haplogroup G is also found, and that it was those regions that were always the most remote in which the Celts and pre iberians inhabited, the Roman's had the hardest time conquering this region, and later the Suebi was exclusively in this area. That being said this was a very cut off and exclusive region. Who is to say very old peoples harboring North African genes survived here? Indeed the North South gradient for Galicia and Portugal ment that the people from the North with haplogroup G retook the south and that is also why Portugal and Galicia have the highest North African, also the first to resist the Moors and the first to reconqor

[Nico Nobrix]

Exactly, the numbers of that years are very well documented (and even painted). The moors lived in their own ghettos, had their own closed communities and they weren't allowed to have high positions in society, army, etc. They worked as builders, poor peasants and they were marginalized.

Finally the Spanish Kingdom decided to spell them out. Why? because of this:
-They continued to be a closed community who didn't want to integrate.
-To prevent a potential alliance between Moriscos and Turkish. They were seen as enemies for the country
-Some kind of economical crisis in Spain wich caused that Christians saw them as annoying group.
-Radicalization of Catholic Christians against Muslims and Protestants.

As you can see there are some similarities with the situation of Nazi Germany with the Jews.

It's well documented that between 270,000 and 300,000 Moriscos were expelled.

The consequences...entire areas were completely depopulated and was necessary to repopulate those areas with Spaniards from other regions.
Even some areas of southern Spain were repopulated with catholic Germans, Austrians, Swiss, French, Flemish and Irish refugees in their religion wars against the English.

In any case even if the Moriscos hadn't been expelled it's impossible that few thousands have an important genetic impact in a population.

Moriscos shipment in Valencia, Pere Oromig (1616)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/63/Embarco_moriscos_en_el_Grao_de_valencia.jpg

One of the biggest flaws with the migration theory to Galicia is that the record keeping was detailed, there was a caste system and everything was documented through the church like where you were born and from whom. People in this forum community believe that moriscos went from Granada all the way to Galicia where they would have to traverse through plains and mountains, for hundreds of miles across the stretch of the Iberian Peninsula, all the while avoiding prosecutors? Rediculous. Please regard my post directly before this on haplogroup G being strongest in the North in the mountains. The mountains harbored men into isolation from the predominant R1B. Also we do know that this very unique region of Iberia, North Portugal, Galicia and Asturias was home to pre indo European and Celts, and the isolation and people gave the Roman's the hardest time conquering this area, and the far less Romanized Suebi Germanics seemed to favor this area exclusively. Not only that but this region was the first to resist and the first to complete the reconquest. Yet this region has the most North African DNA. Surely this is no coincidence, the isolation has preserved very ancient people here and it surely was not a refuge to Moriscos, and does not justify recent North African admixture

[FilhoV]

One of the biggest flaws with the migration theory to Galicia is that the record keeping was detailed, there was a caste system and everything was documented through the church like where you were born and from whom. People in this forum community believe that moriscos went from Granada all the way to Galicia where they would have to traverse through plains and mountains, for hundreds of miles across the stretch of the Iberian Peninsula, all the while avoiding prosecutors? Rediculous. Please regard my post directly before this on haplogroup G being strongest in the North in the mountains. The mountains harbored men into isolation from the predominant R1B. Also we do know that this very unique region of Iberia, North Portugal, Galicia and Asturias was home to pre indo European and Celts, and the isolation and people gave the Roman's the hardest time conquering this area, and the far less Romanized Suebi Germanics seemed to favor this area exclusively. Not only that but this region was the first to resist and the first to complete the reconquest. Yet this region has the most North African DNA. Surely this is no coincidence, the isolation has preserved very ancient people here and it surely was not a refuge to Moriscos, and does not justify recent North African admixture

Haplogroup G is also found in Coastal North Africa. It’s said King Mohamed of Morocco is a G man himself

[Kelmendasi]

G2a-L497 spread with Indo-Europeans, no doubt about that. It was found in Cucuteni-Trypillian in Eastern Europe, so U152 IE speakers absorbed it during their expansion to the west and later spread it to the rest of Western Europe through the Hallstatt horizon. The most obvious proof is the G-L497 sample from Hallstatt culture. G-L497 in Iberia peaks in Galicia.
To me it seems that L497 potentially originated around eastern Europe but was absorbed by IE speakers and when they moved west it's subclades developed somewhere around Austria.

[Nico Nobrix]

Haplogroup G is also found in Coastal North Africa. It’s said King Mohamed of Morocco is a G man himself

Thus proves my point. It's not about having North African, it's about trying to get the history right, and far too often this is used to point fingers and differentiate one Spaniard from the other or a Portuguese to a Spaniard, usually in a degrading manner. But the North West is a special region of Iberia that is for sure, but I will leave aside the Celtic relations for another discussion.