Can he pass for Middle Eastern? [Archive] - The Apricity Forum: A European Cultural Community

Mingle

03-19-2018, 09:55 PM

I posted him not long ago. He looks passable all throughout the MENA world, I think.

Interesting he has one of the most Pan-MENA phenotypes despite not being MENA. I guess he may not pass in the Northern Caucasus & Georgia or Arabia, but he looks like he can pass in most other places in the MENA world.

Vlatko Vukovic

03-19-2018, 09:58 PM

That's only actually where he can pass.

Cristiano viejo

03-19-2018, 09:58 PM

Interesting he has one of the most Pan-MENA phenotypes despite not being MENA. I guess he may not pass in the Northern Caucasus & Georgia or Arabia, but he looks like he can pass in most other places in the MENA world.

Genetically he is MENA.

Yago

03-19-2018, 09:59 PM

Genetically he is MENA.

He'd be like in Between Spanish and Levantines in terms of genetic.

Sp_loa

03-19-2018, 10:00 PM

Passes as Mizrahi Jewish (Which is basically one form of levantine).

Sikeliot

03-19-2018, 10:01 PM

Mingle

03-19-2018, 10:03 PM

North Caucasus and Georgia are considered MENA?

There isn't an official definition. Sometimes they are, sometimes they aren't. I see those lands as MENA though.

Kamal900

03-19-2018, 10:08 PM

Looks really Levantine, especially in the South.

Kivan

03-19-2018, 10:18 PM

He looks a bit like this Armenian guy in the video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCg6z817dS8

Sikeliot

03-19-2018, 10:25 PM

I am surprised that someone as young as him knows the Sicilian language. It is dying out and mostly spoken by either very old people, or people in rural, inland villages.

justpassing

03-19-2018, 10:55 PM

He doesn't look italian. More like a Tunisian or something.

AK-47

03-19-2018, 11:04 PM

He's an Italian linguist from Sicily.

Made me interested because my Paternal lineage is Sicilian which explains my looks I think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjAwh3CbgkI
Most Sicilians look like an intermediate group, between southern Europe and the Levant; a genetic bridge.
This guy falls on the Near Eastern end of the spectrum.

JohnSmith

03-19-2018, 11:34 PM

It is very rare to see an Italian American like him. I am not saying it doesn't exist but extremely rare. He looks more North African I must say.

JohnSmith

03-19-2018, 11:51 PM

Most Sicilians look like an intermediate group, between southern Europe and the Levant; a genetic bridge.
This guy falls on the Near Eastern end of the spectrum.

Still very rare type for Italian Americans.

Sikeliot

03-19-2018, 11:57 PM

Still very rare type for Italian Americans.

He isn't Italian American.

JohnSmith

03-20-2018, 12:00 AM

He isn't Italian American.

I know but I was comparing him to them because I know what they look like.

justpassing

03-20-2018, 12:06 AM

It is very rare to see an Italian American like him. I am not saying it doesn't exist but extremely rare. He looks more North African I must say.

He's sicilian though. But still ! I mean these guys are also Sicilian.
https://i.imgur.com/IQ49VwD.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/WsesDQt.jpg

It's not like the average sicilian automatically looks like this guy. I've been in Sicily once in my life, and i don't remember seeing people like him over there but then again i only visited the touristic parts of sicily not all of it. So maybe there are some who are look like this guy. Don't know how common they are but he doesn't look european to me. Heck, there's mixed arabs who look more european than this guy. Prime example.
https://i.imgur.com/y5peZPm.jpg

SHAA

03-20-2018, 12:13 AM

Pakistan I guess

Odin

03-20-2018, 12:17 AM

Yup.

JohnSmith

03-20-2018, 12:18 AM

He's sicilian though. But still ! I mean these guys are also Sicilian.
https://i.imgur.com/IQ49VwD.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/WsesDQt.jpg

It's not like the average sicilian automatically looks like this guy. I've been in Sicily once in my life, and i don't remember seeing people like him over there but then again i only visited the touristic parts of sicily not all of it. So maybe there are some who are look like this guy. Don't know how common they are but he doesn't look european to me. Heck, there's mixed arabs who look more european than this guy. Prime example.
https://i.imgur.com/y5peZPm.jpg

Yeah , I know. Italian Americans can look anything they have a very large range of looks. This guy is not common and really I do not even know if we for sure know if he is 100% Italian anyway. It is hard to know what people are these days.

justpassing

03-20-2018, 12:31 AM

Yeah , I know. Italian Americans can look anything they have a very large range of looks. This guy is not common and really I do not even know if we for sure know if he is 100% Italian anyway. It is hard to know what people are these days.

Maybe he's an immigrant, or maybe his parents are. or grand parents. You never know. Take the Spanish actress Penelope Cruz for example. She's actually not completely of Spanish origin. She's part gypsy on her grandma's side. Either way, the guy doesn't look european to me.

Yago

03-20-2018, 12:33 AM

Pakistan I guess

Is that you on your avi? looking really pretty what's your whatsapp number?

Sikeliot

03-20-2018, 12:38 AM

Maybe he's an immigrant, or maybe his parents are. or grand parents. You never know. Take the Spanish actress Penelope Cruz for example. She's actually not completely of Spanish origin. She's part gypsy on her grandma's side. Either way, the guy doesn't look european to me.

Sicilians have a variety of looks, ranging from some who look European to some who do not.. this is not a surprise given their ancestry and DNA.

Aren

03-20-2018, 12:41 AM

I am surprised that someone as young as him knows the Sicilian language. It is dying out and mostly spoken by either very old people, or people in rural, inland villages.

Are you trying to learn Greek or Sicilian. I know you wouldn't learn Italian since you don't even consider Sicilians as Italians.

justpassing

03-20-2018, 12:45 AM

Sicilians have a variety of looks, ranging from some who look European to some who do not.. this is not a surprise given their ancestry and DNA.

How does that work though ? From what i remember. (again, i only visited Sicily once in my life), most of them looked european for sure. Some, less so, but they were the minority. And the ones that looked darker certainly didn't look like that guy. But hey, he's the living proof that they do exist. But how does that work ? Looking back at Sicily's past, it would mean that (if he's a genuine Sicilian and has been so for several generations), somehow his parents, his grand parents, and great-great-great etc..all had kids with people who looked like that then ? How come not all of Sicily looks like this ? Or is there a part of Sicily, like..an entire village where people basically look like Tunisians ?

kleenex

03-20-2018, 12:50 AM

I would say he could "pass" in the Levant. The Sicilians I've met are much less Eastern shifted (phenotypically) than this individual but if he said he were from Sicily I wouldn't be shocked. I'd love to see his genetic composition

TheMaestro

03-20-2018, 01:07 AM

He's an Italian linguist from Sicily.

Made me interested because my Paternal lineage is Sicilian which explains my looks I think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjAwh3CbgkI

Yes ofcourse, but can pass in Europe only in south Islands and Sicilly actually I know one famous guy who looks pretty much like him and they both from Sicilly

TheMaestro

03-20-2018, 01:08 AM

Yeah , I know. Italian Americans can look anything they have a very large range of looks. This guy is not common and really I do not even know if we for sure know if he is 100% Italian anyway. It is hard to know what people are these days.

Anything American is not the greatest example since most of them think they have one ethnicitiy and somehow they are another 5.

Oddone

03-20-2018, 01:16 AM

The same Sicilian guy in other pics

https://i.imgur.com/4wQAI3i.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/lxzP1oz.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/CLZzOYX.jpg

justpassing

03-20-2018, 01:26 AM

JohnSmith

03-20-2018, 01:29 AM

Can't say much from one pic of a guy.

Oddone

03-20-2018, 01:29 AM

These kids, are my idea of Sicilians to be honest. I remember also seeing redheads over there. That dude looks like a Tunisian imo. Hard to tell how common people like him are. (that little girl next to him also)..

The pic was taken in northern Italy. Feel free to state that he looks Tunisian, you can fool a forum but not me, I see Tunisians everyday and they don't look like those cheerypicked in forums.

Sikeliot

03-20-2018, 01:30 AM

How does that work though ? From what i remember. (again, i only visited Sicily once in my life), most of them looked european for sure. Some, less so, but they were the minority. And the ones that looked darker certainly didn't look like that guy. But hey, he's the living proof that they do exist. But how does that work ? Looking back at Sicily's past, it would mean that (if he's a genuine Sicilian and has been so for several generations), somehow his parents, his grand parents, and great-great-great etc..all had kids with people who looked like that then ? How come not all of Sicily looks like this ? Or is there a part of Sicily, like..an entire village where people basically look like Tunisians ?

Sicilians are genetically outlying for Europe, the only groups who are as outlying from DNA are Maltese and some islands like Crete.

Yago

03-20-2018, 01:31 AM

[QUOTE=Oddone;5033899]The same Sicilian guy in other pics

https://i.imgur.com/eH75qFp.jpg
These kids, are my idea of Sicilians to be honest. I remember also seeing redheads over there. That dude looks like a Tunisian imo. Hard to tell how common people like him are. (that little girl next to him also)..

Yes, blonde, blue eyed generic white kids are the ideal sicilians living in the middle of the Mediterranean sea. Nigga you kidding me? I mean I don't think the guy in the video is the average sicilian but those kids are neither Sicilian (probadly) or cherrypicked to point out some agenda (given the one who posted it is obviously some butthurt Italian)

Sikeliot

03-20-2018, 01:33 AM

AK-47

03-20-2018, 01:36 AM

[QUOTE=Oddone;5033899]The same Sicilian guy in other pics

https://i.imgur.com/eH75qFp.jpg
These kids, are my idea of Sicilians to be honest. I remember also seeing redheads over there. That dude looks like a Tunisian imo. Hard to tell how common people like him are. (that little girl next to him also)..
In my opinion, your idea of Sicilians is more on the lighter side of the spectrum and represented a relatively small minority.
The majority of Sicilians have darker features.
Blondism/red-hair, in Sicilians is a relatively rare trait, and not by any means typical.
A Mediterranean skin complexion is the norm, and an ability to get a deep tan in the warmer months is also the norm.
I do agree with you that the OP's picture is atypical for Sicilians.

justpassing

03-20-2018, 01:36 AM

The pic was taken in northern Italy. Feel free to state that he looks Tunisian, you can fool a forum but not me, I see Tunisians everyday and they don't look like those cheerypicked in forums.
Trust me, my country is sadly, invaded by Tunisians, morrocans, Algerians... I don't know the type of Tunisians people tend to post around here. (i'm new to the forum btw) but that guy looks quite semetic to me. Maybe i'm exaggerating but he could pass as a Tunisian. He wouldn't look out of place in this picture imo

https://i.imgur.com/f5guCD8.jpg

Sikeliot

03-20-2018, 01:37 AM

Trust me, my country is sadly, invaded by Tunisians, morrocans, Algerians... I don't know the type of Tunisians people tend to post around here. (i'm new to the forum btw) but that guy looks quite semetic to me. Maybe i'm exaggerating but he could pass as a Tunisian. He wouldn't look out of place in this picture imo

What I don't get is why you think Sicilians, a European group with an unparalleled level of MENA input for Europe (except Malta and, if you count it, Cyprus) will not have phenotypes like this.

AK-47

03-20-2018, 01:42 AM

What I don't get is why you think Sicilians, a European group with an unparalleled level of MENA input for Europe (except Malta and, if you count it, Cyprus) will not have phenotypes like this.
It does seem baffling, why people wouldn't grasp that Sicilians are on average a hybridized group, straddling between the MENA and Southern Europe.
Of course some can pass squarely in the MENA.

Sikeliot

03-20-2018, 01:46 AM

It does seem baffling, why people wouldn't grasp that Sicilians are on average a hybridized group, straddling between the MENA and Southern Europe.
Of course some can pass squarely in the MENA.

Here are some Sicilians from another region -- Agrigento. They are a mixture of types that are more typically European and more Levant and North African influence.

https://www.facebook.com/pg/discotecaBoca/photos/?ref=page_internal

Which is consistent with their DNA.

Yago

03-20-2018, 01:46 AM

It does seem baffling, why people wouldn't grasp that Sicilians are on average a hybridized group, straddling between the MENA and Southern Europe.
Of course some can pass squarely in the MENA.

They can't grasp that even North Italians on average are more Southern genetically than other Europeans living in their lattitude. Basques, Southern French, Croats have more WHG, Steppe admixture than any North Italian, not even the most Northern shifted genetic outliers from Bergamo are as Northern than random Spanish and it's visible in their looks. More West Asian resulted heavier Dinarization in North Italy vs the Cro Magnid-Atlantid types in Iberia representing the original Mesolithic European stock.

justpassing

03-20-2018, 01:47 AM

[QUOTE=justpassing;5033910]
In my opinion, your idea of Sicilians is more on the lighter side of the spectrum and represented a relatively small minority.
The majority of Sicilians have darker features.
Blondism/red-hair, in Sicilians is a relatively rare trait, and not by any means typical.
A Mediterranean skin complexion is the norm, and an ability to get a deep tan in the warmer months is also the norm.
I do agree with you that the OP's picture is atypical for Sicilians.

My bad then..I'm probably wrong. Again, i only visited the place once. I remember seeing blondes, redheads, brunettes... Yes i also do remember seeing darker ones for sure but that guy wasn't the norm from what i remember. Maybe it's because i was in the most touristic part of the of Sicily i'm not sure. I've seen dark europeans. One that comes to mind is also Nadal.
https://i.imgur.com/baYclyb.jpg
But even he certainly doesn't have these types of facial features. That sicilian guy looks blatantly semitic imo

Sikeliot

03-20-2018, 01:48 AM

[QUOTE=AK-47;5033926]

My bad then..I'm probably wrong. Again, i only visited the place once. I remember seeing blondes, redheads, brunettes... Yes i also do remember seeing darker ones for sure but that guy wasn't the norm from what i remember. Maybe it's because i was in the most touristic part of the of Sicily i'm not sure. I've seen dark europeans. One that comes to mind is also Nadal.
https://i.imgur.com/baYclyb.jpg
But even he certainly doesn't have these types of facial features. That sicilian guy looks blatantly semitic imo

Which part of Sicily did you go to? I.e. which provinces. That might make a difference because the Semitic types are concentrated in specific provinces and regions.

AK-47

03-20-2018, 01:49 AM

Here are some Sicilians from another region -- Agrigento. They are a mixture of types that are more typically European and more Levant and North African influence.

https://www.facebook.com/pg/discotecaBoca/photos/?ref=page_internal

Which is consistent with their DNA.
Good set of pictures.
Have you used any in a thread?

justpassing

03-20-2018, 01:50 AM

What I don't get is why you think Sicilians, a European group with an unparalleled level of MENA input for Europe (except Malta and, if you count it, Cyprus) will not have phenotypes like this.

I'm going to be honest, i'm new around here and i don't know much about Sicilians, i'm only posting my opinion on what i've seen in real life, in person. But now that you mention it i guess i shouldn't be surprised. You're right.

AK-47

03-20-2018, 01:52 AM

I'm going to be honest, i'm new around here and i don't know much about Sicilians, i'm only posting my opinion on what i've seen in real life, in person. But now that you mention it i guess i shouldn't be surprised. You're right.
Being honest is a good trait.
Many posters on here with 1000s of posts, wouldn't say what you just did.

justpassing

03-20-2018, 01:55 AM

[QUOTE=justpassing;5033951]

Which part of Sicily did you go to? I.e. which provinces. That might make a difference because the Semitic types are concentrated in specific provinces and regions.

it was ages ago but i think it was in Palermo. I visited the catacombs, they have an amazingly preserved mummy of a little girl over there. Visited a few more places but from what i remember it seemed to me that most of them looked European. Not gonna deny, there were some darker ones for sure, but overall i'd say they looked european. Again i haven't visited all of Sicily so...

Sikeliot

03-20-2018, 01:56 AM

[QUOTE=Sikeliot;5033953]

it was ages ago but i think it was in Palermo. I visited the catacombs, they have an amazingly preserved mummy of a little girl over there. Visited a few more places but from what i remember it seemed to me that most of them looked European. Not gonna deny, there were some darker ones for sure, but overall i'd say they looked european. Again i haven't visited all of Sicily so...

That is odd because Palermo is one of the areas with higher Semitic influence. Palermo, Agrigento, Caltanissetta, and part of Messina. Maybe some of the people you saw in Palermo were from other parts of Italy.

If you go to Syracuse and Ragusa, and parts of Trapani they do look more Greco-Roman, and some more "northern" influences.

justpassing

03-20-2018, 01:57 AM

Being honest is a good trait.
Many posters on here with 1000s of posts, wouldn't say what you just did.

;) haha, yeah i'm not like that, i'm just glad and surprised that such forums exist in the first place.

justpassing

03-20-2018, 02:00 AM

[QUOTE=justpassing;5033958]

That is odd because Palermo is one of the areas with higher Semitic influence. Palermo, Agrigento, Caltanissetta, and part of Messina. Maybe some of the people you saw in Palermo were from other parts of Italy.

If you go to Syracuse and Ragusa, and parts of Trapani they do look more Greco-Roman, and some more "northern" influences.

It is very odd then. One thing i will say, one thing that struck me in particular though and i hope it's not my memory that is playing tricks on me. Most people (men and women) seemed small. Smaller than most europeans. Not saying they're midgets or anything lol, but that's the impression i had. I'm from France btw. Maybe i'm full of shit, maybe people in Sicily are taller lol but that's what i remember. I wonder if there's a website which lists sizes (averages) of europeans online (per country)

Sikeliot

03-20-2018, 02:01 AM

;) haha, yeah i'm not like that, i'm just glad and surprised that such forums exist in the first place.

Look through these and see what you think.

Palermo: https://www.facebook.com/PINKCODEPALERMO/photos/?ref=page_internal
Agrigento: https://www.facebook.com/discotecaBoca/photos/?ref=page_internal
Syracuse: https://www.facebook.com/pg/K24-moetchandon-club-171313936293944/photos/?ref=page_internal

I think the Syracuse set does look almost 100% European, the other two no.

kleenex

03-20-2018, 02:10 AM

Where does the man in question pass best to you?

Lebanon, Syria, less so Cyprus with higher Caucasus input.

justpassing

03-20-2018, 02:10 AM

Look through these and see what you think.

Palermo: https://www.facebook.com/PINKCODEPALERMO/photos/?ref=page_internal
Agrigento: https://www.facebook.com/discotecaBoca/photos/?ref=page_internal
Syracuse: https://www.facebook.com/pg/K24-moetchandon-club-171313936293944/photos/?ref=page_internal

I think the Syracuse set does look almost 100% European, the other two no.

I can see what you mean. Yep. Who knows, maybe the people i saw were also on vacation and not actual Sicilians from Palmermo? Odd.

Furores

03-20-2018, 02:35 AM

They can't grasp that even North Italians on average are more Southern genetically than other Europeans living in their lattitude. Basques, Southern French, Croats have more WHG, Steppe admixture than any North Italian, not even the most Northern shifted genetic outliers from Bergamo are as Northern than random Spanish and it's visible in their looks. More West Asian resulted heavier Dinarization in North Italy vs the Cro Magnid-Atlantid types in Iberia representing the original Mesolithic European stock.

Not true. Bergamo isn't the most north shifted Italian sample. Actually, most genetic studies use North Italian sample based on the Bergamo one but now we know as a fact that people from Bergamo are LESS north shifted than Piedmontese and specially Northeastern Italians. People from Triveneto region, Friuli, Trento are much more North European than Spaniards. There are Venetian results in 23andme coming up more than 40% North European. If you count Trentino and Tyrolese as Italians then you have people comparable or even more northern than Northern French in Italy.

Also, Northeastern Italians and even Lombardians generally look much more ''White'' than Spaniards. Lombardians may cluster south of Spanish, but most of the northern ancestry they have is quite recent and Spaniards northern ancestry is very old. Northeastern Italians are undeniably more northern than any Iberians, even Basques.

The big problem is that the North Italian sample is based on the Bergamo region that is more south shifted than the average North Italian.

Yago

03-20-2018, 02:38 AM

Not true. Bergamo isn't the most north shifted Italian sample. Actually, most genetic studies use North Italian sample based on the Bergamo one but now we know as a fact that people from Bergamo are LESS north shifted than Piedmontese and specially Northeastern Italians. People from Triveneto region, Friuli, Trento are much more North European than Spaniards. There are Venetian results in 23andme coming up more than 40% North European. If you count Trentino and Tyrolese as Italians then you have people comparable or even more northern than Northern French in Italy.

Also, Northeastern Italians and even Lombardians generally look much more ''White'' than Spaniards. Lombardians may cluster south of Spanish, but most of the northern ancestry they have is quite recent and Spaniards northern ancestry is very old. Northeastern Italians are undeniably more northern than any Iberians, even Basques.

The big problem is that the North Italian sample is based on the Bergamo region that is more south shifted than the average North Italian.

You made an account just to respond my comment.

http://gifimage.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/dj-khaled-you-smart-gif-2.gif

RandomGuy20

03-20-2018, 02:40 AM

Yep.
However I've seen a couple Sicilians IRL with similar features and complexion before.
These Italian bros from a cooking show in AUS look similar to Sicilians I've seen-
https://i2.wp.com/tvtonight.com.au/wp-content/uploads/joshmic.jpg

pmv74

03-20-2018, 03:28 PM

This guy would pass in the Middle East and no one would probably look at him any different. I think Sicilians generally have darker features compared to most other Europeans. That said, there are many fairer Sicilians some with light eyes, hair and pigmentation. They are not the majority but there are more than most people think. My dad’s family who are Sicilians all have dark brown or black hair with dark eyes and light to medium olive skin. My dad was the darkest in his family and would pass very easy in North African and some Middle Eastern countries.

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