Osweo
02-18-2011, 02:29 AM
What do we think, am I REALLY a definite descendant of Niall Naoigheallach, just cos of this little Y chromosome thingy?! (Say "Yes"! :clap: )
From The Sunday Times
January 15, 2006
High King Niall: the most fertile man in Ireland
GENETICISTS have identified Ireland’s most successful alpha male. As many as one in 12 Irish men could be descended from Niall of the Nine Hostages, a 5th-century warlord, according to research conducted at Trinity College Dublin.
Niall, who was head of the most powerful dynasty in medieval Ireland, may have left a genetic legacy almost as impressive as Genghis Khan, the Mongol emperor who has 16m descendants after conquering most of Asia in the 13th century.
Researchers at the Smurfit Institute of Genetics at Trinity estimate there could be as many as 3m men worldwide descended from Niall. The highest concentration of his progeny is in northwest Ireland, where one in five males have inherited his Y chromosome.
The High King at Tara from 379 to 405, Niall founded the dynasty Ui Neill, which means descendants of Niall, who ruled Ireland until the 11th century. He reputedly made raids on the coasts of Britain and France, including one that netted St Patrick, then a slave called Succat, who was brought to Ireland.
.............. rest here; http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article788652.ece
.........
Laoise Moore, a PhD student working on the Wellcome Trust-funded project, took DNA samples by mouth swab from male volunteers and recorded the birthplace of their paternal grandfather.
Dan Bradley, who supervised the PhD, analysed the genetic fingerprints of the samples and found the same Y chromosome in 8% of the general population, with a cluster in the northwest where 21% carried it.
Interestingly, the far North West of Ireland is noted for its absence of vassal tribes. The Ui Neill ruled the place AND populated it. Other peoples were shunted aside (perhaps mostly into Oriel), and so here we have genetic confirmation of that!?!
Here's the bit I have to trust them on;
They calculated that the most recent common ancestor was likely to have lived about 1,700 years ago. Coupled with the geographical distribution centred on the northwest, this pointed to the Ui Neill dynasty.
Is it REALLY possible to date it so accurately? How do they do it!? Is it reliable???
I WANT this list;
The researchers then checked genealogical records, which recorded the relationships between different Irish families over centuries. Katharine Simms, head of Trinity’s history department, provided the geneticists with a list of modern surnames linked by genealogical tradition to the Ui Neill dynasty.
“We found that the frequency of this variant, this Y chromosome, was much higher in this group,” said Bradley. “That was the clincher — the Ui Neill, this group that held sway and power in Ireland, seemed at some stage to have had a single patrilineal ancestor.
“It’s another example of a linkage between prolificacy and power. It confirms these medieval genealogies.”
Among those who carry the distinctive pattern of Y chromosomes in their genes, indicating probable descent from the warlord, is Bradley himself. “I’m from the northwest, so it is not that unusual,” he said. “One in five of the people I would meet on the street at home would also be descended.”
What a life....;
Powerful men in medieval Ireland had many wives and children. Divorce and concubinage were allowed and illegitimate sons were claimed and had rights under law.
“Under Brehon law a man had a first wife, a live-in concubine, a live-out concubine and someone he just casually met and so on,” said Simms. “In each of these cases a child could take the father’s name.”
Modern surnames tracing their ancestry to Niall include Gallagher, Boyle, O’Donnell, O’Doherty and O’Kane. Even in the 15th century, Niall’s descendants were producing offspring in abundance. Lord Turlough O’Donnell, who died in 1423, had 18 sons with 10 different women and had 59 grandsons in the male line.:thumbs up
23nMe's take on it is this;
Haplogroup R1b1b2a1a2f2
R1b1b2a1a2f2 reaches its peak in Ireland, where the vast majority of men carry Y-chromosomes belonging to the haplogroup. Researchers have recently discovered that a large subset of men assigned to the haplogroup may be direct male descendants of an Irish king who ruled during the 4th and early 5th centuries. According to Irish history, a king named Niall of the Nine Hostages established the Ui Neill dynasty that ruled the island country for the next millennium.
Northwestern Ireland is said to have been the core of Niall's kingdom; and that is exactly where men bearing the genetic signature associated with him are most common. About 17% of men in northwestern Ireland have Y-chromosomes that are exact matches to the signature, and another few percent vary from it only slightly. In New York City, a magnet for Irish immigrants during the 19th and early 20th century, 2% of men have Y-chromosomes matching the Ui Neill signature. Genetic analysis suggests that all these men share a common ancestor who lived about 1,700 years ago. Among men living in northwestern Ireland today that date is closer to 1,000 years ago. Those dates neatly bracket the era when Niall is supposed to have reigned.
Outside Ireland, R1b1b2a1a2f2 is relatively common only along the west coast of Britain.
Feel free to add anything else you've found on this haplogroup. :D
From The Sunday Times
January 15, 2006
High King Niall: the most fertile man in Ireland
GENETICISTS have identified Ireland’s most successful alpha male. As many as one in 12 Irish men could be descended from Niall of the Nine Hostages, a 5th-century warlord, according to research conducted at Trinity College Dublin.
Niall, who was head of the most powerful dynasty in medieval Ireland, may have left a genetic legacy almost as impressive as Genghis Khan, the Mongol emperor who has 16m descendants after conquering most of Asia in the 13th century.
Researchers at the Smurfit Institute of Genetics at Trinity estimate there could be as many as 3m men worldwide descended from Niall. The highest concentration of his progeny is in northwest Ireland, where one in five males have inherited his Y chromosome.
The High King at Tara from 379 to 405, Niall founded the dynasty Ui Neill, which means descendants of Niall, who ruled Ireland until the 11th century. He reputedly made raids on the coasts of Britain and France, including one that netted St Patrick, then a slave called Succat, who was brought to Ireland.
.............. rest here; http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article788652.ece
.........
Laoise Moore, a PhD student working on the Wellcome Trust-funded project, took DNA samples by mouth swab from male volunteers and recorded the birthplace of their paternal grandfather.
Dan Bradley, who supervised the PhD, analysed the genetic fingerprints of the samples and found the same Y chromosome in 8% of the general population, with a cluster in the northwest where 21% carried it.
Interestingly, the far North West of Ireland is noted for its absence of vassal tribes. The Ui Neill ruled the place AND populated it. Other peoples were shunted aside (perhaps mostly into Oriel), and so here we have genetic confirmation of that!?!
Here's the bit I have to trust them on;
They calculated that the most recent common ancestor was likely to have lived about 1,700 years ago. Coupled with the geographical distribution centred on the northwest, this pointed to the Ui Neill dynasty.
Is it REALLY possible to date it so accurately? How do they do it!? Is it reliable???
I WANT this list;
The researchers then checked genealogical records, which recorded the relationships between different Irish families over centuries. Katharine Simms, head of Trinity’s history department, provided the geneticists with a list of modern surnames linked by genealogical tradition to the Ui Neill dynasty.
“We found that the frequency of this variant, this Y chromosome, was much higher in this group,” said Bradley. “That was the clincher — the Ui Neill, this group that held sway and power in Ireland, seemed at some stage to have had a single patrilineal ancestor.
“It’s another example of a linkage between prolificacy and power. It confirms these medieval genealogies.”
Among those who carry the distinctive pattern of Y chromosomes in their genes, indicating probable descent from the warlord, is Bradley himself. “I’m from the northwest, so it is not that unusual,” he said. “One in five of the people I would meet on the street at home would also be descended.”
What a life....;
Powerful men in medieval Ireland had many wives and children. Divorce and concubinage were allowed and illegitimate sons were claimed and had rights under law.
“Under Brehon law a man had a first wife, a live-in concubine, a live-out concubine and someone he just casually met and so on,” said Simms. “In each of these cases a child could take the father’s name.”
Modern surnames tracing their ancestry to Niall include Gallagher, Boyle, O’Donnell, O’Doherty and O’Kane. Even in the 15th century, Niall’s descendants were producing offspring in abundance. Lord Turlough O’Donnell, who died in 1423, had 18 sons with 10 different women and had 59 grandsons in the male line.:thumbs up
23nMe's take on it is this;
Haplogroup R1b1b2a1a2f2
R1b1b2a1a2f2 reaches its peak in Ireland, where the vast majority of men carry Y-chromosomes belonging to the haplogroup. Researchers have recently discovered that a large subset of men assigned to the haplogroup may be direct male descendants of an Irish king who ruled during the 4th and early 5th centuries. According to Irish history, a king named Niall of the Nine Hostages established the Ui Neill dynasty that ruled the island country for the next millennium.
Northwestern Ireland is said to have been the core of Niall's kingdom; and that is exactly where men bearing the genetic signature associated with him are most common. About 17% of men in northwestern Ireland have Y-chromosomes that are exact matches to the signature, and another few percent vary from it only slightly. In New York City, a magnet for Irish immigrants during the 19th and early 20th century, 2% of men have Y-chromosomes matching the Ui Neill signature. Genetic analysis suggests that all these men share a common ancestor who lived about 1,700 years ago. Among men living in northwestern Ireland today that date is closer to 1,000 years ago. Those dates neatly bracket the era when Niall is supposed to have reigned.
Outside Ireland, R1b1b2a1a2f2 is relatively common only along the west coast of Britain.
Feel free to add anything else you've found on this haplogroup. :D