Are balkanites closer to each other than to others?

[Ylla]

When I look at autosomal results we seem closer eg to Italians than to Bosniaks, but we have much higher IBD sharing with Bosniaks than with Italians and we share haplogroups. Do these genetic tests exaggerate our differences ? thoughts ?

[Voskos]

Yes and no.For example even remote islands like Cyprus are genetically linked to the Balkans one way or the other. That said a Greek or a Cypriot with 20% natufian/anatolian influence and almost non-existent Yamnaya admixture is not that similar to a Baltid Bosniak with 40% Slavic ancestry, or a Croat.

[Wrong]

When I look at autosomal results we seem closer eg to Italians than to Bosniaks, but we have much higher IBD sharing with Bosniaks than with Italians and we share haplogroups. Do these genetic tests exaggerate our differences ? thoughts ?
You should know the answer by now after all these years. ;)

[Carpatz]

Albanians plot closer to Italians because both have a similar distribution of northern/southern components, but share more dna with slavic Balkanites, because of the latter's paleo-balkanic heritage.

[Kelmendasi]

Culturally without a doubt us Albanians are closer to other Balkanites than to other people. Genetically we plot with Italians usually but we actually share more IBD with South Slavs and Greeks

[Sikeliot]

Albanians and Greeks have more Italian like ancestry than other Balkan people have but more Balkan ancestry than any Italians have.

Some Greeks plot further from Italy than Albanians due to Slavic also.

[Tauromachos]

Culturally without a doubt us Albanians are closer to other Balkanites than to other people. Genetically we plot with Italians usually but we actually share more IBD with South Slavs and Greeks

Greeks are closer to Italians than to South Slavs.

The only Balkan group realy close to Greeks is indeed Albanians.

[Wrong]

Tosks are the closest population in the world to Tuscans if we go by autosomal analysis.

Tosks confirmed for Tuscans.

Toskan Tusc

[Tauromachos]

Albanians and Greeks have more Italian like ancestry than other Balkan people have but more Balkan ancestry than any Italians have.

Some Greeks plot further from Italy than Albanians due to Slavic also.

Some Greeks plot closer to Italians and even Sicilians for that matter than Albanians.

[Wrong]

Some Greeks plot closer to Italians and even Sicilians for that matter than Albanians.
Depends on which Italians we are talking about.

Greeks should be closer to South Italians and Sicilians from what I've seen. Albanians to Tuscans and North Italians.

[Tauromachos]

Depends on which Italians we are talking about.

Greeks should be closer to South Italians and Sicilians from what I've seen. Albanians to Tuscans and North Italians.

Exactly

[Hulu]

Culturally without a doubt us Albanians are closer to other Balkanites than to other people. Genetically we plot with Italians usually but we actually share more IBD with South Slavs and Greeks

Culturally Albanians are closer to Italy than south slavs or greeks. At least Albanians of Albania. Second place come greeks but this is only true for those who have been to Greece, south slavs are really alien to us, more alien than England or Russia or France, we have an idea about their culture but nothing about south slavs.

[Wrong]

Albanians look different like hell to Greeks despite being close populations autosomally.

There is some overlap, yet far from what would be expected despite being neighbors.

[ShenGjergj]

Culturally Albanians are closer to Italy than south slavs or greeks. At least Albanians of Albania. Second place come greeks but this is only true for those who have been to Greece, south slavs are really alien to us, more alien than England or Russia or France, we have an idea about their culture but nothing about south slavs.

Balkan culture is similar pretty much everywhere. Therefor Slavs from Poland, Russia etc.. might be alien to us but not south slavs.

[Wrong]

Culturally Albanians are closer to Italy than south slavs or greeks. At least Albanians of Albania. Second place come greeks but this is only true for those who have been to Greece, south slavs are really alien to us, more alien than England or Russia or France, we have an idea about their culture but nothing about south slavs.
We got nothing to do with Italy culturally, except Albanian Catholics.

More with Turkey, South Slavs and Greece.

When Albanians arrived to Italy in the 90s it was like another planet to them.

[Hulu]

Balkan culture is similar pretty much everywhere. Therefor Slavs from Poland, Russia etc.. might be alien to us but not south slavs.

In theory maybe, in practice we have no idea about them. Going for a few days in Budva or Dubrovnik doesn't really connect us.

[Wrong]

Big Osman Baba had his 400-500 years in the Albania, I would say we are closest to Turkey.

[Hulu]

We got nothing to do with Italy culturally, except Albanian Catholics.

More with Turkey, South Slavs and Greece.

When Albanians arrived to Italy in the 90s it was like another planet to them.

Not really, the majority spoke the language and integrated really fast. I have relatives and friends there, I can vouch for that.

[Wrong]

Not really, the majority spoke the language and integrated really fast. I have relatives and friends there, I can vouch for that.
We integrated the fastest in Turkey. Big Osman Baba welcomed our Mohammedans with open arms.

[Hulu]

Big Osman Baba had his 400-500 years in the Albania, I would say we are closer to Turkey.

Not really, turks stayed away from Albania during this time. There was no influence whatsoever except some minor things that were wiped during Zogu's time even. Forget about communism.

[Hulu]

We integrated the fastest in Turkey.

Or in America. Mbahu nene mos ki frike se ke djemt ne Amerike ;)

[Wrong]

Not really, turks stayed away from Albania during this time. There was no influence whatsoever except some minor things that were wiped during Zogu's time even. Forget about communism.
I'm moving to Turkey right now. Big Osman Baba is the friendliest out of these cultures.

[Voskos]

We integrated the fastest in Turkey.

The Turks integrated fastest.Albanians were there before them

[Wrong]

The Turks integrated fastest.Albanians were there before them
Big Osman BabaDim

https://rlv.zcache.co.nz/funny_santa_claus_with_flag_of_turkey_christmas_or nament-rae816175ae404f7aaa767b5ed6f5460f_x7s2y_8byvr_324. jpg

[Voskos]

Big Osman BabaDim

https://rlv.zcache.co.nz/funny_santa_claus_with_flag_of_turkey_christmas_or nament-rae816175ae404f7aaa767b5ed6f5460f_x7s2y_8byvr_324. jpg
Flag the Seljuks of Rum copied from Byzantine Albanians:
https://i.pinimg.com/236x/73/8b/23/738b23e43abfcc2e69805e11c314a880--coat-of-arms.jpg

[The Illyrian Warrior]

Autosomally we are closer to Italians because we share almost similar values from ancient samples but we are more linked with our neighbors due recent common ancestors.

[Wrong]

Flag the Seljuks of Rum copied from Byzantine Albanians:
https://i.pinimg.com/236x/73/8b/23/738b23e43abfcc2e69805e11c314a880--coat-of-arms.jpg
#15: The character of Santa Claus is based on Saint Nicholas, a bishop of the Turkish city Myra. In the 19th century, the story of Saint Nicholas found its way into the American folk belief as Santa Claus.

[Hulu]

This is Albano, an Italian singer in Albania in 1989, BEFORE the fall of communism. You cannot overstate the influence Italian TV had in Albania. The relationship with south slavs or greeks have been nonexistent.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZzT_zdSI_A

[Thanas Django]

#15: The character of Santa Claus is based on Saint Nicholas, a bishop of the Turkish city Myra. In the 19th century, the story of Saint Nicholas found its way into the American folk belief as Santa Claus.

fuck shits who try to turkify our saints.

[Jana]

Yep, by real ancestry. Plotting means nothing. South Slavs though share as much IBD with west/east slavs as with non slavic southeast Europeans.
Thing is our recent ancestry is much more related to other SE Europeans, because we didn't mix with north Slavs since 1500 years ago.

I plot with central Europeans, but I'm sure by IBD I would be related to southeast Europeans. On23andme countries of ancestry I have dots with all ''Balkan cluster countries'' except Greece and Moldova, and from north Slavs only with Poland.

[Dick]

Yep, by real ancestry. Plotting means nothing. South Slavs though share as much IBD with west/east slavs as with non slavic southeast Europeans.
Thing is our recent ancestry is much more related to other SE Europeans, because we didn't mix with north Slavs since 1500 years ago.

I plot with central Europeans, but I'm sure by IBD I would be related to southeast Europeans. On23andme countries of ancestry I have dots with all ''Balkan cluster countries'' except Greece and Moldova, and from north Slavs only with Poland.

the only commercial company that does IBD is ancestrydna

[Jana]

the only commercial company that does IBD is ancestrydna

They do ? So Stears shares IBD with West Slavs and Lithuanians ? That's his genetic community.

[Ujku]

We got nothing to do with Italy culturally, except Albanian Catholics.

More with Turkey, South Slavs and Greece.

When Albanians arrived to Italy in the 90s it was like another planet to them.

You are wrong my friend.

[trebil]

You are wrong my friend.

to be honest it's true, culturally we have nothing to do with the Balkans.

i've nothing against albanians, i'm on my apulian side of partial arbereshe ancestry myself.

[Wrong]

You are wrong my friend.
I am wrong, but I am right.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9r-9CyZkBNY

[Dick]

They do ? So Stears shares IBD with West Slavs and Lithuanians ? That's his genetic community.

Yup. here's mine.

https://i.imgur.com/goAzK19.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/jXhEndY.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/DlF6SX8.jpg

[trebil]

Yep, by real ancestry. Plotting means nothing. South Slavs though share as much IBD with west/east slavs as with non slavic southeast Europeans.
Thing is our recent ancestry is much more related to other SE Europeans, because we didn't mix with north Slavs since 1500 years ago.

I plot with central Europeans, but I'm sure by IBD I would be related to southeast Europeans. On23andme countries of ancestry I have dots with all ''Balkan cluster countries'' except Greece and Moldova, and from north Slavs only with Poland.

+ 1

[Ujku]

I am wrong, but I am right.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9r-9CyZkBNY

hajde molok hajde.

[Ujku]

to be honest it's true, culturally we have nothing to do with the Balkans.

i've nothing against albanians, i'm on my apulian side of partial arbereshe ancestry myself.

What's so different in your culture than people from vlora?

[trebil]

What's so different in your culture than people from vlora?

anything, we eat orecchiette

[trebil]

i hope you know what orecchiette are @ Ujku


:)

[Ujku]

anything, we eat orecchiette

i mean yeah , the cuisine is obviously different.

[Ylla]

I'm not really asking about culture, thread is in 'Autosomal DNA' section

[trebil]

i mean yeah , the cuisine is obviously different.

instead when we go to the bathroom for pooping we are almost identical

[Thanas Django]

instead when we go to the bathroom for pooping we are almost identical

This depends. Italians are famous for bringing friends with them to the bathroom while pooping to keep them company.

Do Albanians do the same?

[Kelmendasi]

Culturally Albanians are closer to Italy than south slavs or greeks. At least Albanians of Albania. Second place come greeks but this is only true for those who have been to Greece, south slavs are really alien to us, more alien than England or Russia or France, we have an idea about their culture but nothing about south slavs.
Maybe today there is an increasing Italian influence but traditionally we have more in common with other Balkanites, our pagan mythology for example is influenced by Greek mythology and we even share some mythical characters with South Slavs and Greeks but I don't know if we have this connection with Italians.

[Kelmendasi]

This depends. Italians are famous for bringing friends with them to the bathroom while pooping to keep them company.

Do Albanians do the same?
Wtf xD

[trebil]

This depends. Italians are famous for bringing friends with them to the bathroom while pooping to keep them company.

Do Albanians do the same?

it depends, if you are a beautiful girl you can follow me in the bathroom and pooping with me, but if you're an ugly boy you're not really welcomed

[Kelmendasi]

I'm not really asking about culture, thread is in 'Autosomal DNA' section
I guess this is pretty self explanatory:

https://s7.postimg.org/rmnacxdzf/image_28.png

[trebil]

I'm not really asking about culture, thread is in 'Autosomal DNA' section

this was said by you, those are abruzzese people, south italy

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?240201-Italians-from-Abruzzo-What-places-can-these-people-pass-(POLL-ADDED)&p=5061130&viewfull=1#post5061130

[ovidiu]

There are differences in which each populations lean but at the same time I still think there's some underlying common substratum for them all.


In 2006 Bosch et al. attempted to determine if the Aromanians are descendants of Latinised Dacians, Greeks, Illyrians, Thracians or a combination of these, but no hypothesis could be proven because of the underlying genetic similarity of all the tested Balkan groups. Linguistic and cultural differences between Balkan groups were deemed too weak to prevent gene flow among the groups.[66]


The Balkan Peninsula is a complex cultural mosaic comprising populations speaking languages from several branches of the Indo‐European family and Altaic, as well as culturally‐defined minorities such as the Aromuns who speak a Romance language. The current cultural and linguistic landscape is a palimpsest in which different peoples have contributed their cultures in a historical succession. We have sought to find any evidence of genetic stratification related to those cultural layers by typing both mtDNA and Y chromosomes, in Albanians, Romanians, Macedonians, Greeks, and five Aromun populations. We have paid special attention to the Aromuns, and sought to test genetically various hypotheses on their origins.

MtDNA and Y‐chromosome haplogroup frequencies in the Balkans were found to be similar to those elsewhere in Europe. MtDNA sequences and Y‐chromosome STR haplotypes revealed decreased variation in some Aromun populations. Variation within Aromun populations was the primary source of genetic differentiation. Y‐chromosome haplotypes tended to be shared across Aromuns, but not across non‐Aromun populations. These results point to a possible common origin of the Aromuns, with drift acting to differentiate the separate Aromun communities. The homogeneity of Balkan populations prevented testing for the origin of the Aromuns, although a significant Roman contribution can be ruled out.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1469-1809.2005.00251.x

[Ylla]

I guess this is pretty self explanatory:

https://s7.postimg.org/rmnacxdzf/image_28.png

These results made me create the thread! :) it seems we try to distance ourselves from each other

Albanians to italians to distance from slavic speakers
Croat/Bosniak/Serbs to north slavs
Greeks to south italian

[RN97]

In theory IBD should be more reliable, but autosomal should measure overall genetic relatedness better. Think of it like this. You have two cakes, IBD will measure how much of identical ingredients they share, like how much strawberry jam each cake share with each other. Autosomal is more like how much the two cakes are similar to each other overall, thereby it can for example group all sorts of jams into one category, all dry powders into one, all dairy into one etc. It will give you a more relative answer than what IBD will give you, but at the same time IBD is not so indicative of overall relatedness.

[ovidiu]

I guess this is pretty self explanatory:

https://s7.postimg.org/rmnacxdzf/image_28.png

Just out of curiosity, where do you get this view in 23andme? Is it only for people on the V5 chip? Can't find it under Ancestry reports or DNA relatives.

EDIT- nvm apparently it's under "see tested populations"

Mine are Romania at 5 stars, Macedonia at 3, Albania and Bulgaria at 2, Croatia at 1, and the rest at none (including Moldova)

[Kelmendasi]

Just out of curiosity, where do you get this view in 23andme? Is it only for people on the V5 chip? Can't find it under Ancestry reports or DNA relatives.
Have your results been updated yet? If so, you go to "see all tested populations" in the ancestry composition page and there it comes up. Every 23andme customer gets this update, you should have it by now

[Journeyman26]

Yeah, I would say some areas are more similar than others.

Fragment of my updated 23and me

https://i.imgur.com/LG1TQDp.jpg

[Jana]

Seems that Moldovans don't share lot or recent (200 years back) ancestry with other countries in balkan cluster.
I noticed majority of southeast Europeans get Moldova matches the least (except some Romanians ofc, but not all)

Perhaps they should be omitted from cluster altogheder. Nice that Malta was removed, they clearly were outlier there.

[Pjeter Pan]

http://i63.tinypic.com/2afexjn.png

[kleenex]

Depends on which Italians we are talking about.

Greeks should be closer to South Italians and Sicilians from what I've seen. Albanians to Tuscans and North Italians.
Mainland Greeks are close to Central Italians (if were talking about South Greeks excluding Maniots/Tsakonians). As far as Tuscan are concerned I've seen Albanian results close to Tuscany but not necessarily North Italy (Bergamo, etc.).

[Dick]

I guess this is pretty self explanatory:

Mine too.

https://i.imgur.com/fLpHnEi.jpg

[Tauromachos]

Mainland Greeks are close to Central Italians (if were talking about South Greeks excluding Maniots/Tsakonians). As far as Tuscan are concerned I've seen Albanian results close to Tuscany but not necessarily North Italy (Bergamo, etc.).

Albanians are often close to Tuscans but to North Italians for that matter as well.

It depends as it depends for Greeks,the more Southern shifted Albanians are closer to the triangle between Tuscany Greece and Southern Italy.

Peloponnesians often are close to South Italians as well not only Central Italy.

Alot of Peloponnesian results get Central Greek and Abruzzo as their first two populations but often they get Sicilian also in their top 5 and sometimes
even at place 1 or 2.

Even Northern Greeks can get Sicilian in their top 5 or 10.

[kleenex]

Albanians and Greeks have more Italian like ancestry than other Balkan people have but more Balkan ancestry than any Italians have.

Some Greeks plot further from Italy than Albanians due to Slavic also.

I'm not sure I agree with this assertion.

[kleenex]

Albanians look different like hell to Greeks despite being close populations autosomally.

There is some overlap, yet far from what would be expected despite being neighbors.

I don't know if that's true. I've seen a lot of Dinaric looking Albanians who look like Greeks but I've also noticed that there are mainland Greeks with Atlanto Med traits not typically present in Albanians. Also Island Greeks with Eastern Med influence which may further differentiate the populations.

[ovidiu]

This is Albano, an Italian singer in Albania in 1989, BEFORE the fall of communism. You cannot overstate the influence Italian TV had in Albania. The relationship with south slavs or greeks have been nonexistent.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZzT_zdSI_A

Lol his name is actually Al Bano, two different names (Romina power was hot btw). But that's interesting I didn't know that there was that much cultural influence from Italy in Albania. I guess it kind of makes sense given the proximity. There was a decent amount in Romania too in the modern era (among other artists, I recall the singer Toto Cutugno came and performed, and even sang a song in the native language), but a bit more from France I'd say. Nowadays English/American media and pop culture is all the rage however, and I think that applies almost everywhere haha.

[Wrong]

I don't know if that's true. I've seen a lot of Dinaric looking Albanians who look like Greeks but I've also noticed that there are mainland Greeks with Atlanto Med traits not typically present in Albanians. Also Island Greeks with Eastern Med influence which may further differentiate the populations.
We don't. Albania and Greece is like two different planets phenotypically.

Greeks can spot an Albanian from 5 miles radius and viceversa.

[Hulu]

Lol his name is actually Al Bano, two different names .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albano_Carrisi

[Geni]

Culturally Albanians are closer to Italy than south slavs or greeks. At least Albanians of Albania. Second place come greeks but this is only true for those who have been to Greece, south slavs are really alien to us, more alien than England or Russia or France, we have an idea about their culture but nothing about south slavs.

:icon_yes:

[Ylla]

:icon_yes:

Its true for Albania proper, even 'Era' would agree

[Crank]

Not really, turks stayed away from Albania during this time. There was no influence whatsoever except some minor things that were wiped during Zogu's time even. Forget about communism.

Doesn't explain the high presence of Islam and obvious oriental influenced culture. They stayed away mostly in mountainous areas but the lowlands had obvious Ottoman influence, especially areas like Kosova. Kosovars are obviously Turkish influenced culturally. So are some areas of Albania without a doubt.

The mountaineers themselves were also influenced to some extent. Albanians converted and enjoyed more rights. No influence? That is an exaggeration.

Here you have Albanians of Albania in Tirana.. thousands gathering praying for Ramadan


http://www.tiranatimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/bajram.jpg


Also a huge mosque was to be built in Tirana or something if I recall

Your post reeks of delusion.

[Tauromachos]

#15: The character of Santa Claus is based on Saint Nicholas, a bishop of the Turkish city Myra. In the 19th century, the story of Saint Nicholas found its way into the American folk belief as Santa Claus.

Only problem is that the City wasn't Turkish at that time

And the name Nikolaos isn't Turkish neither