There's little to no Arabian input in the Levant

[Haider]

Unlike what some people claim, that modern-day Levantines have significant peninsular Arabian input, their 'Arabian' Red Sea is actually mostly ancient Natufian in origin. So if anything, it's shared ancestry.

If we use modern-day Levantine Christians, who score around 12/13% Red Sea, as a proxy for ancient Levant, we can assume that's the native percentage for the region.

The thing is, other Levantine groups score less, not more, Red Sea than their Christian counterparts. So it suggests the Red Sea is mostly native, and the non-native input in the region is more West Asian-like than Arabian-like.

Average Red Sea among some Levantine groups:

Samaritans, Christians and Lebanese Sunnis: 12-13%
Lebanese Shias and Druzes: 10-12%
Non-Bedouin Syrians: usually less than 9%

Palestinians score around 16%, but that's more likely due to geographic proximity to the Sinai, than actual Arabian.


Also, the ancient Canaanite samples from Sidon plotted with modern-day Palestinians, which means they had slightly more Red Sea than modern-day Lebanese.

https://i.imgur.com/UEhNgkb_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=high

Ancient Sidonians plotted within the Palestinin cluster, south of modern-day Lebanese, who received an Iranic-like West Asian contribution.

[Sikeliot]

Modern Lebanese appear to have more Caucasus-like input and in some ethnic groups in Lebanon, a small amount of Norman influence. Palestinians also seem to have Egyptian affinity, hence higher Sub-Saharan input than the Lebanese.

[Haider]

Being closer to Iranians than actual Gulf Arabs is also proof enough. Levantine Arabs can get Iranian n their oracles but Guld Arabs are nowhere to be found.

Syrian

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 38.45
2 West_Asian 24.94
3 West_Med 10.46
4 Red_Sea 8.05
5 North_Sea 7.25
6 South_Asian 3.40
7 Baltic 2.94
8 Northeast_African 2.36

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Lebanese_Muslim @ 8.650545
2 Assyrian @ 9.007679
3 Syrian @ 9.846594
4 Kurdish_Jewish @ 10.015998
5 Iranian_Jewish @ 10.586826
6 Cyprian @ 12.334493
7 Georgian_Jewish @ 12.800330
8 Lebanese_Christian @ 13.266750
9 Armenian @ 14.114731
10 Samaritan @ 14.488809
11 Jordanian @ 14.540877
12 Lebanese_Druze @ 14.714210
13 Turkish @ 14.956648
14 Palestinian @ 16.674282
15 Azeri @ 16.780239
16 Kurdish @ 17.305662
17 Libyan_Jewish @ 17.614120
18 Iranian @ 18.291035
19 Tunisian_Jewish @ 18.803658
20 Bedouin @ 19.847311

Lebanese

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Southern 42.58
2 Caucasus_Gedrosia 37.8
3 Atlantic_Baltic 14.34
4 South_Asian 2.66
5 African 2.16
6 Amerindian 0.47

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Lebanese (Behar) 5.07
2 Syrians (Behar) 5.57
3 Druze (HGDP) 5.68
4 Cypriots (Behar) 6.87
5 Georgia_Jews (Behar) 8.01
6 Jordanians (Behar) 11.14
7 Palestinian (HGDP) 11.55
8 Uzbekistan_Jews 11.57
9 Assyrian (Dodecad) 11.75
10 Azerbaijan_Jews 12.29
11 Armenian (Dodecad) 12.48
12 Iraq_Jews (Behar) 12.59
13 Turkish (Dodecad) 12.71
14 Armenians (Behar) 13.29
15 Armenians (Yunusbayev) 13.42
16 Turks (Behar) 13.78
17 Iranian_Jews (Behar) 14.5
18 Samaritians (Behar) 15.8
19 Sephardic_Jews (Behar) 16.28
20 Iranians (Behar) 17.09

[StonyArabia]

What do you mean by Gulf Arabs? Gulf Arabs does not refer to the whole people of the Arabian peninsula. Gulf Arab is misnomer and it only refers to the people of the Eastern coast of the Arabian peninsula like Kuwaitis, Bahrainis, Emiratis, Qataris, Eastern Saudis, and some areas of coastal Oman, and parts of Southern Iraq. Hejazis are not Gulfers for example, neither are people from Nejd and North Arabian peninsula. They also speak different dialects of Arabic. Gulf Arabic is confined to the southern most Iraq to coastal areas of Oman. Hejazi dialect sounds closer to Yemenite/Egyptian for example.

Btw many Levantines score Bedouin and Yemenite/Yemenite Jew lolz

The Levant was more Arabian like before West Asian migrants came from Anatolia lol.

[happycow]

what about Bedouin? I see that quite a bit.

[StonyArabia]

what about Bedouin? I see that quite a bit.

Yep that means Arabian admixture. It's just semantics.

Bedouins and Gulf Arabs although are of the same bloodlines, but are culturally different. Most Saudis are Bedouins, well most Kuwaitis are Gulf Arabs. Most Iraqi Arabs are of Bedouin origins, the exception is far northwest Iraq, where many are indeed Arabized. However in the southeast Basra they are Gulf Arabs, do you see what I am getting at.

Seems like an OWD thread

[Haider]

what about Bedouin? I see that quite a bit.

That's Negev Bedouin, who are heavily mixed with native Levantines. My point is we're closer to Iranians than Emiratis, Qataris etc

[StonyArabia]

That's Negev Bedouin, who are heavily mixed with native Levantines.

I have seen regular Levantines who score a lot of Bedouin. Actually Negev Bedouins cluster with Yemenite Jews. Yemenite Jews are genetically identical to ethnic Saudis.

The Levant was Arabian like before the Anatolian migration in the bronze age. Nabateans were genetically identical to Saudis and Yemenite Jews.

[Haider]

I have seen regular Levantines who score a lot of Bedouin. Actually Negev Bedouins cluster with Yemenite Jews. Yemenite Jews are genetically identical to ethnic Saudis.

The Levant was Arabian like before the Anatolian migration in the bronze age. Nabateans were genetically identical to Saudis and Yemenite Jews.

It was NOT Arabian like, it was NATUFIAN like. These Natufians from the Levant, who were the first Semitic people, also migrated to the Arabian peninsula, not the other way around.

[Leto]

Some Syrians judging by images from the war look brown and bedouin-ish, so there is definitely some Arabian and black admixture in Syria.

[Sacrificed Ram]

It was NOT Arabian like, it was NATUFIAN like. These Natufians from the Levant, who were the first Semitic people, also migrated to the Arabian peninsula, not the other way around.

Natufians had none reason to migrate to peninsula, during mesolithic Levant was a fruitful woodlands, no reason to migrate to peninsular steppes. I think Natufian was just a local phenomenon and any similarity with any other population is result of a common shared Basal Eurasian ancestry. Migration should have occurred only during the droughts of neolithic/chacolithic when they already had domesticated goats and sheeps needful to live in arid steppe regions.

http://i59.tinypic.com/32zi5ok.jpg

[StonyArabia]

It was NOT Arabian like, it was NATUFIAN like. These Natufians from the Levant, who were the first Semitic people, also migrated to the Arabian peninsula, not the other way around.

Natufian were were very genetically similar to the people of the Arabian peninsula and Egyptians. Levantines just got admixed with incoming Anatolian West Asians during the bronze age. Now they have some European like admixture, due to the crusades especially Muslims ironically. Well it's true that Levantines will not score Emiriati or Qatari, but they score Bedouin, or Saudi or Yemenite Jew I have seen those in their oracles at varying levels.

[Sacrificed Ram]

Needful remember til chalcolithic Levant had only E,C,T,F, yHaplogroups, the arrive of J yHaplogroups was just during bronze age, then the formation of "semitics" should have occurred only during this period. Even the historical Sumers weren't semitic speakers.