View Full Version : Who are the most 'Celtic' non-Celts today?
Sikeliot
04-13-2018, 03:42 AM
In terms of ancestry/unbroken descent from Celtic speaking people.
QUICAS
04-13-2018, 03:44 AM
English, spanish, portugueses and french.
ovidiu
04-13-2018, 07:07 PM
That's a tough one. Wouldn't it be like maybe French, Swiss, Austrians, southern/Bavarian Germans? Even though the far western Atlantic seaboard of Europe, particularly the British Isles, is now associated with Celticness, are they genetically strongly influenced by or related to the original Hallstatt and La Tene Central European Celtic culture? Or was it more cultural/linguistic assimilation by a smaller elite group into native ancient Britons, Iberians, etc.? From what I read from authors like Barry Cunliffe, the latter seems to be more the case as evidenced by archaeology. This doesn't really have a clear answer since there are many dimensions to what defines the Celtic people; what time period is this in reference to? The speakers of the languages in the late Bronze and early Iron Ages were probably somewhat different from those that do today.
Iloko
04-13-2018, 07:08 PM
English and French
Token
04-13-2018, 07:17 PM
French, no doubt about that. They have, by far, more proper Celtic (Proto-Celtic) ancestry than Irish and Scots.
R1b-U152 (North Italy, West Germany, Helvetia and France)
Freeroostah
04-13-2018, 07:51 PM
Austrians, Bavarians, and Swiss are genetically more Celtic than the Celtic speakers of the Isles...just saying :)
alnortedelsur
04-14-2018, 01:21 AM
I voted English, but the poll question should have been multiple choice. I think that the European populations with strongest Celtic genetic background are in general, the populations from the westernmost European countries along the Atlantic coast: British Isles, Belgium, France, Spain and Portugal, plus southern Germany, Switzerland and Northern Italy.
Bobby Martnen
04-14-2018, 01:51 AM
English and Irish aren't related at all - they just cluster similarly by chance.
They are historical enemies, not relatives. To call them related is an insult.
Thracian
04-14-2018, 10:04 AM
Real Celtic people are Irish, Scotch and Welsh people.
Արաքս
04-14-2018, 10:34 AM
Possibly some Celtic DNA in Anatolians?
Grace O'Malley
04-14-2018, 01:37 PM
French, no doubt about that. They have, by far, more proper Celtic (Proto-Celtic) ancestry than Irish and Scots.
Care to explain why?
oszkar07
04-14-2018, 04:14 PM
In terms of ancestry/unbroken descent from Celtic speaking people.
Why didnt you include Irish ,Scottish, Welsh.
I voted other , I will say Welsh and Irish , after that probably Scotland, England ,France.
I think England has certain places where there are Celtic concentrations but I think England possibly has more Germanic than Wales and Ireland ,Scotland.
de Burgh II
04-14-2018, 04:25 PM
Bretons, Irish, Welsh, Bavarians, and Swiss.
The Blade
04-15-2018, 12:47 PM
French, in my opinion. Then English and Belgians. Then Spanish and Portuguese people.
The early Celts of the la Tene culture were probably genetically very northern European, not very different from the neighobouring Jastorf culture in the north which was early Germanic. Most central Euros todays + the French have a substanital Tuscan-like input from probably the Middle Ages and early Modern era.
ovidiu
04-16-2018, 04:50 PM
https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/magazine/mythsofbritishancestry
Everything you know about British and Irish ancestry is wrong. Our ancestors were Basques, not Celts. The Celts were not wiped out by the Anglo-Saxons, in fact neither had much impact on the genetic stock of these islands.
https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22530134-300-ancient-invaders-transformed-britain-but-not-its-dna/
THEY came, they saw, they conquered. But while the Romans, Vikings and Normans ruled Britain for many years, none left their genetic calling cards behind in the DNA of today’s mainland Caucasian population. That’s the message from the most comprehensive analysis yet of the genetic make-up of the white British population.
The only invaders that left a lasting legacy are the Anglo-Saxons. As well as giving us the English language, the Anglo-Saxons, whose influx began around AD 450, account for 10 to 40 per cent of the DNA in half of modern-day Britons.
The analysis also springs some surprises. There was no single Celtic population outside the Anglo-Saxon dominated areas, but instead a large number of genetically distinct populations (see map below). The DNA signatures of people in the neighbouring counties of Devon and Cornwall are more different than between northern England and Scotland. And there are also unexpectedly stark differences between inhabitants in the north and south of the Welsh county of Pembrokeshire.
The first major wave of immigration started after the Ice Age, ~9000 BC
http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-31905764
A DNA study of Britons has shown that genetically there is not a unique Celtic group of people in the UK. ... And it shows that the invading Anglo Saxons did not wipe out the Britons of 1,500 years ago, but mixed with them.
http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2015/03/18/4200057.htm
"In fact the so-called Celtic parts of the UK -- Scotland, Northern Ireland, Wales and Cornwall -- are some of the most different from each other genetically," says Leslie.
MinervaItalica
04-16-2018, 04:52 PM
Irish no?
French!? :picard1:
They are pretty much Latin...
Token
04-16-2018, 05:13 PM
The early Celts of the la Tene culture were probably genetically very northern European, not very different from the neighobouring Jastorf culture in the north which was early Germanic. Most central Euros todays + the French have a substanital Tuscan-like input from probably the Middle Ages and early Modern era.
This is not what the avaiable data indirectly suggests by now, everything points that early Celts were more French-like than anything. Lets wait for the Iron Age samples though.
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