Ecstasy does not wreck the mind, study claims

[Loki]

Ecstasy does not wreck the mind, study claims (http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/feb/19/ecstasy-harm-brain-new-study)

Previous research was flawed, say experts, but findings will shock those who campaign against the drug's use

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2011/2/18/1298065729468/ecstasy-tablets-007.jpg
Ecstasy tablets induce a sense of euphoria and intimacy with others, and diminished anxiety and depression

There is no evidence that ecstasy causes brain damage, according to one of the largest studies into the effects of the drug. Too many previous studies made over-arching conclusions from insufficient data, say the scientists responsible for the research, and the drug's dangers have been greatly exaggerated.

The finding will shock campaigners who have claimed ecstasy poses a real risk of triggering brain damage. They have argued that it can induce memory loss, decrease cognitive performance and has long-lasting effects on behaviour.

But experts who have argued that the drug is relatively safe welcomed the new paper. "I always assumed that, when properly designed studies were carried out, we would find ecstasy does not cause brain damage," said Professor David Nutt, who was fired as chair of the Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs by Alan Johnson, then home secretary, for publicly stating alcohol and tobacco were more harmful than ecstasy.

The study was carried out by a team led by Professor John Halpern of Harvard Medical School and published in the journal Addiction last week. Funded by a $1.8m grant from the US National Institute on Drug Abuse, it was launched specifically to avoid methodological drawbacks that have bedevilled previous attempts to pinpoint whether or not ecstasy users suffer brain damage.

Ecstasy – or 3,4-Methylenedioxymethamphetamine, or MDMA – came into widespread use in the 1980s when taking it was linked to raves and the playing of dance music. Its symptoms include euphoria, a sense of intimacy with others and diminished anxiety and depression. In the US alone, more than 12 million have taken it.

But the taking of ecstasy has also been linked to damage to the central nervous system and research in recent years has suggested that long-term changes to emotional states and behaviour have been triggered by consumption of the drug. Possession of it has been made an offence in most western nations.

However, Halpern was sharply critical of the quality of the research that had linked ecstasy to brain damage. "Too many studies have been carried out on small populations, while overarching conclusions have been drawn from them," he said. For a start, some previous research has studied users who were taken from a culture dominated by all-night dancing, which thus exposed these individuals to sleep and fluid deprivation – factors that are themselves known to produce long-lasting cognitive effects. Non-users were not selected from those from a similar background, which therefore skewed results. In addition, past studies have not taken sufficient account of the fact that ecstasy users take other drugs or alcohol that could affect cognition or that they may have suffered intellectual impairment before they started taking ecstasy. In Halpern's study only ecstasy users who took no other drugs and who had suffered no previous impairment were selected.

The resulting experiment whittled down 1,500 potential participants to 52 selected users, whose cognitive abilities matched those of a group of 59 non-users. "We even took hair samples of participants to test whether they were telling the truth about their drug and alcohol habits," said Halpern. "Essentially we compared one group of people who danced and raved and took ecstasy with a similar group of individuals who danced and raved but who did not take ecstasy. When we did that, we found that there was no difference in their cognitive abilities." In other words, previous studies highlighted problems triggered by other factors, such as use of other drugs or drink, or sleep deprivation.

But the drug still posed risks, he said. "Ecstasy consumption is dangerous because illegally made pills often contain contaminants that can have harmful side-effects."

[Loki]

And here is a good blog piece about it too:

The alcohol and the ecstasy: prejudice drowns out sense (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/feb/21/alcohol-ecstasy-drinks-intoxicants)

The government's rank relationship with the drinks industry contributes to a twisted logic that contorts policy on intoxicants

[Adalwolf]

I think that this study is flawed and aimed at appeasing a certain group of individuals. I've seen first hand the damage that chronic, hedonistic ecstasy abuse can cause. One of my friends has become ridden with anxiety because of these pills. Although he went way over board what most people would consider moderate use.

[Loki]

I think that this study is flawed and aimed at appeasing a certain group of individuals. I've seen first hand the damage that chronic, hedonistic ecstasy abuse can cause. One of my friends has become ridden with anxiety because of these pills. Although he went way over board what most people would consider moderate use.

That's the problem: you think. You are clearly prejudiced.

[Bloodeagle]

I am certainly relieved to know this. :D
The last time I did any of that stuff was nearly 20 years ago and now they tell me that I will be alright. ;)

[Adalwolf]

That's the problem: you think. You are clearly prejudiced.

No, you're just being naive.

[Loki]

I am certainly relieved to know this. :D
The last time I did any of that stuff was nearly 20 years ago and now they tell me that I will be alright. ;)

You seem perfectly alright to me. ;) I hate it when governments use scare tactics and flawed "studies" to try and scare people away from things they want to make illegal, rather than telling the truth. :mad: But in the end, the truth will always triumph. This is really no different than Tony Blair saying Saddam can launch WMD's in 45 minutes, just in order to find public support for a war. Exactly the same tactic!!

In light of this study, what justification is there for MDMA to be a Class A drug (along with things like heroin and crack), and yet alcohol is fully legal?

[Loki]

No, you're just naive.

On the contrary. I am openminded and open to any facts. You don't seem to be.

You talked about your friend who abused the drug, and then had problems. Yes, and? Anything will cause problems if abused. Chug a bottle full of aspirin every day and see how quickly you get stomach bleeds. That doesn't mean aspirin is evil. Ecstasy is not something one should use too often, all advice says that. Dudes who use that stuff every weekend are idiots.

[Sol Invictus]

It does drain spinal fluid though, doesn't it?

[Loki]

It does drain spinal fluid though, doesn't it?

Spinal fluid? Never heard of that. It drains serotonin. But the serotonin levels automatically return to normal after a week or so. Which is why it is advised to wait a few weeks minimum between usage.

[Adalwolf]

Also, I don't know if you realize the small chances a person has in getting actual pure MDMA these days. It is almost always cut with meth or a similar chemical, because they need it to actually press the pill.

[Loki]

Also, I don't know if you realize the small chances a person has in getting actual pure MDMA these days. It is almost always cut with meth or a similar chemical, because they need it to actually press the pill.

This is true, notoriously difficult to get pure MDMA. Pills ... can have anything in them, and usually contain other ingredients too.

[Eldritch]

I presume that this (http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1360-0443.2010.03252.x/abstract) is the study in question:


Residual neurocognitive features of long-term ecstasy users with minimal exposure to other drugs

...

Keywords:
Cognitive function;
ecstasy;
MDMA;
neurotoxicity;
substance abuse

ABSTRACT

Aims In field studies assessing cognitive function in illicit ecstasy users, there are several frequent confounding factors that might plausibly bias the findings toward an overestimate of ecstasy-induced neurocognitive toxicity. We designed an investigation seeking to minimize these possible sources of bias.

Design We compared illicit ecstasy users and non-users while (1) excluding individuals with significant life-time exposure to other illicit drugs or alcohol; (2) requiring that all participants be members of the ‘rave’ subculture; and (3) testing all participants with breath, urine and hair samples at the time of evaluation to exclude possible surreptitious substance use. We compared groups with adjustment for age, gender, race/ethnicity, family-of-origin variables and childhood history of conduct disorder and attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. We provide significance levels without correction for multiple comparisons.

Setting Field study.

Participants Fifty-two illicit ecstasy users and 59 non-users, aged 18–45 years.

Measurements Battery of 15 neuropsychological tests tapping a range of cognitive functions.

Findings We found little evidence of decreased cognitive performance in ecstasy users, save for poorer strategic self-regulation, possibly reflecting increased impulsivity. However, this finding might have reflected a pre-morbid attribute of ecstasy users, rather than a residual neurotoxic effect of the drug.

Conclusions In a study designed to minimize limitations found in many prior investigations, we failed to demonstrate marked residual cognitive effects in ecstasy users. This finding contrasts with many previous findings—including our own—and emphasizes the need for continued caution in interpreting field studies of cognitive function in illicit ecstasy users.

I wish they'd say how long the study lasted. MDMA's effects on serotonin levels are cumulative over time.

Btw Dr. Halpern (http://www.erowid.org/culture/characters/halpern_john/halpern_john.shtml) seems like an interesting character.

[Adalwolf]

Indeed. And I agree that occasional use of pure MDMA isn't very harmful if in the right environment and circumstances. I am just skeptical after I read incidents where people die from getting a bad batch cut with rat poison or piperanzines.

[Loki]

Indeed. And I agree that occasional use of pure MDMA isn't very harmful if in the right environment and circumstances. I am just skeptical after I read incidents where people die from getting a bad batch cut with rat poison or piperanzines.

If it was made legal and regulated, this wouldn't be a problem.

[Adalwolf]

True. But then again, the same case could probably be made for cocaine and heroin. And we can't have people sitting around all day and getting high. ;)

[Bloodeagle]

Spinal fluid? Never heard of that. It drains serotonin. But the serotonin levels automatically return to normal after a week or so. Which is why it is advised to wait a few weeks minimum between usage.

This is a common myth associated with the drug. I first encountered this back in the mid 1980's when the substance was first banned in the U.S..

My biggest concern with taking these manufactured substances, is the lack of any sort of quality control, that the illicit chemist would be obligated to follow. If I could get my hands on some pharmaceutical grade MDMA, then I would be more inclined to partake. :D

[Fortis in Arduis]

My biggest concern with taking these manufactured substances, is the lack of any sort of quality control, that the illicit chemist would be obligated to follow If I could get my hands on some pharmaceutical grade MDMA, then I would be more inclined to partake. :D

Haha... I think you just pressed the right button there matey.

Hee Hee!!! :D

MDMA in the UK is not pharma grade because it is made from sassafras and smells kinda like a planty resin, but it is pure in all other respects and it works a treat.

There was a problem sourcing because of the NASTY analogues like mephedrone which were legal, but we got it now.

Oh boy... Hee hee!!! :D

[Eldritch]

Actually nearly all of the health problems associated with heroin are secondary (impure heroin cut with toxic substances, diseases contracted from shared needles). In an ideal world I would not see a problem with it being legal. Sadly however ... :shrug:

[Óttar]

True. But then again, the same case could probably be made for cocaine and heroin. And we can't have people sitting around all day and getting high.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. All drugs should be legal.

[Loki]

Actually nearly all of the health problems associated with heroin are secondary (impure heroin cut with toxic substances, diseases contracted from shared needles). In an ideal world I would not see a problem with it being legal. Sadly however ... :shrug:

Indeed. Most overdoses occur when fentanyl is sold by drug dealers as heroin. Results in immediate problems. Fentanyl is 100 x more potent than morphine, and hence I guess about 25 times stronger than heroin.

[Grumpy Cat]

I don't particularly like forgetting that I have a bladder. I take having to pee every couple hours as indication that I'm still alive.

So, E is not my thing.

[Bloodeagle]

I don't particularly like forgetting that I have a bladder. I take having to pee every couple hours as indication that I'm still alive.

So, E is not my thing.

I don't remember anything about my bladder but I do remember the powder and the need to eat the powder and the fruit roll-ups we used to make little powder packages out of the powder. :D

Damn, those were good times!

I also remember how bright the cloudy weather seemed after an illuminating time with myristicin's refined sister.

[Adalwolf]

Actually nearly all of the health problems associated with heroin are secondary (impure heroin cut with toxic substances, diseases contracted from shared needles). In an ideal world I would not see a problem with it being legal. Sadly however ... :shrug:

The only problem with heroin is it's extreme addictive potential. And many people have been known to die, going through withdrawals because they're so bad.

[Äike]

Another of these threads...

Let's just all start smoking weed, taking ecstasy, shooting heroin and snorting cocaine. While doing this, let's all think about how evil alcohol is.

[Raikaswinþs]

I quit the Rave lifestyle when I moved to UK. have tried M just 2 times in tha last 5 years. Both of them awesome experiences.

[Beorn]

Years of first hand experience blown out of the roof of my mind by a scientist.

Well you learn something new everyday.

[Eldritch]

The only problem with heroin is it's extreme addictive potential. And many people have been known to die, going through withdrawals because they're so bad.

Heroin withdrawal's severity has been overplayed, mainly by books and movies that romanticise the junkie lifestyle.

In reality, heroin withdrawal is not life-threatening (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroin_withdrawal#Fatality) -- unlike a severe alcohol withdrawal that leads to delirium tremens, which nearly always is, for example.

[Bloodeagle]

Heroin withdrawal's severity has been overplayed, mainly by books and movies that romanticise the junkie lifestyle.

In reality, heroin withdrawal is not life-threatening (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroin_withdrawal#Fatality) -- unlike a severe alcohol withdrawal that leads to delirium tremens, which nearly always is, for example.

I had it explained to me that a person - (heroin addict), often feels that they will surely perish during the withdrawal process - (the mind can be deceptive).

[Adalwolf]

Yeah, the psychological factor is just as bad if not worse than alcohol withdrawal.

[Loki]

Heroin withdrawal's severity has been overplayed, mainly by books and movies that romanticise the junkie lifestyle.

In reality, heroin withdrawal is not life-threatening (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroin_withdrawal#Fatality) -- unlike a severe alcohol withdrawal that leads to delirium tremens, which nearly always is, for example.

The main danger with heroin (besides the addictive nature) is respiratory depression. That is why doctors co-administer oxygen when they give you IV morphine in hospital. There is a new drug called BIMU8 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BIMU8) which counters that, and will enable much larger doses of opiates to be taken without the danger of respiratory depression.

[Treffie]

It drains serotonin. But the serotonin levels automatically return to normal after a week or so. Which is why it is advised to wait a few weeks minimum between usage.

I think this is worrying - especially for someone who's already suffering from severe depression.