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JQP4545
04-21-2018, 09:36 PM
Are Russians mostly descended from Slavs who migrated from the lands in which they originated; northeast of the Carpathian Mountains, or are they mostly descended from native Scythians/Sarmatians/etc...?

My opinion is that they are mostly descended from Slavs who migrated from Poland, Ukraine, etc...because here is a sample of an ancient Scythian:

M374116 (Scythian I0247):

Population
Gedrosia 24.52
Siberian 7.71
Northwest_African -
Southeast_Asian 3.04
Atlantic_Med 13.00
North_European 40.31
South_Asian 2.62
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 0.42
East_Asian 0.78
Caucasus 6.85
Sub_Saharan 0.76

Here is an early Medieval Russian (Sunghir6):

Population
Gedrosia 2.86
Siberian 2.02
Northwest_African -
Southeast_Asian 0.27
Atlantic_Med 23.89
North_European 57.20
South_Asian -
East_African -
Southwest_Asian -
East_Asian -
Caucasus 13.31
Sub_Saharan 0.45

Jana
04-21-2018, 09:38 PM
Southern and central Russians are mainly of Slavic origin. Northern Russians are more Finnic.

Bosniensis
04-21-2018, 09:42 PM
Most of Russians are Scythians.

That is official stance of Russian Academy of Science.

It is unimportant what WE think cause we don't have data.

Here Russian Scientists explain that Russians are Scythians.

Slav = Scythians & Sarmatians.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfmeLVVtR0A

ЛыSSый
04-21-2018, 09:57 PM
:picard1:

ЛыSSый
04-21-2018, 10:00 PM
Unban RETHEL!
We need his expert opinion!

Sacrificed Ram
04-21-2018, 10:02 PM
These Iranics were R1a-Z93, russians are R1a-Z280 balto-slav and a lot of uralic N1c.

Ülev
04-21-2018, 10:06 PM
no, they are ancestors of all R1


https://youtu.be/KxLBFchXqTs

Proto-Shaman
04-21-2018, 10:13 PM
These Iranics were R1a-Z93, russians are R1a-Z280 balto-slav and a lot of uralic N1c.
R1a-Z93 were Turkic, Iranics are native to their lands. N1c is not only Uralic, Yakuts have 90% N1c.

Proto-Shaman
04-21-2018, 10:13 PM
mostly romaslavized East-Germanics.

Sacrificed Ram
04-21-2018, 10:22 PM
R1a-Z93 were Turkic, Iranics are native to their lands. N1c is not only Uralic, Yakuts have 90% N1c.

Also.
http://siliusradicum.pl/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/r1a-clades-july-2016-lubicz-lapinski.jpg

https://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/N1c-tree.png

Livin
04-21-2018, 10:30 PM
Rus(Germanic Nordoviking) were the high elite class of eastern Slavs.
Later the mixed with Finnic tribes and Scythians to south.
Turkic and Mongolic come later....

Sacrificed Ram
04-21-2018, 10:41 PM
Rus(Germanic Nordoviking) were the high elite class of eastern Slavs.
Later the mixed with Finnic tribes and Scythians to south.
Turkic and Mongolic come later....

Scythians were extinc before christian era and turkic peoples like huns, avars, khazars, cumans, pechenegs and even Kipchaks were already present before rus arrived, despite an iranic people contributed with russians, due many cossacks are of alan origin.

Scythian origin was a soviet stalinist propaganda to weak national identities into USSR and put everybody under one flag.

Livin
04-21-2018, 10:45 PM
Scythians were extinc before christian era and turkic peoples like huns, avars, khazars, cumans, pechenegs and even Kipchaks were already present before rus arrived, despite an iranic people contributed with russians, due many cossacks are of alan origin.

Scythian origin was a soviet stalinist propaganda to weak national identities into USSR and put everybody under one flag.

For me scythians are the first indoeuropeans from the steppe of Black Sea and Ukraine.
Most of them were PontidMed.
They have nothin to do with Iranians.

Just simple indoeuropeans!!!!

helg
04-21-2018, 10:48 PM
Southern and central Russians are mainly of Slavic origin. Northern Russians are more Finnic.

Northern Russians are more Baltic. Russians really divide into northern and southern ones, the northern ones are closer to Baltiа and Scandinavia (often there are Tronders and Hallstats), and Central/Southern Russians are closer to Eastern Slavs, Western Slavs and East Germans. But Northern Russians are only 1/10 of the Russians on the map below, while the Central and Southern Russians are 9/10. Northern Russians are a mixture of Slavs, Balts, Germans and Finno-Ugrians, and Central Russians are almost entirely Slavs, and Southern Russians are Slavs with an admixture of Iranian-speaking Scythians.

Genetic distance from Northern Russians

http://генофонд.рф/wp-content/uploads/Ris.-5.8.jpg

Genetic distance from Central and Southern Russians

http://генофонд.рф/wp-content/uploads/S-C-Rus.jpg

Ülev
04-21-2018, 10:49 PM
and speaking of maps - R1a subclades here: http://dna-academy.ru/haplomaps-r1a-subclades/

Sacrificed Ram
04-21-2018, 10:55 PM
For me scythians are the first indoeuropeans from the steppe of Black Sea and Ukraine.
Most of them were PontidMed.
They have nothin to do with Iranians.

Just simple indoeuropeans!!!!

Yamnaya (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamna_culture) were R1b yDNA, scythians were R1a yDNA, they aren't the firsts.

Jana
04-21-2018, 10:55 PM
According to these fst distances northern Russians aren't very close to Lithuanians/Latvians and are genetically most isolated group of Slavic speakers. See:
https://i.imgur.com/mRpfIqS.png

ЛыSSый
04-21-2018, 11:02 PM
and speaking of maps - R1a subclades here: http://dna-academy.ru/haplomaps-r1a-subclades/

vaasiliy, on these maps you may see how real interrarium should look.

Sacrificed Ram
04-21-2018, 11:06 PM
and speaking of maps - R1a subclades here: http://dna-academy.ru/haplomaps-r1a-subclades/

This site has problem with finnic operational systems (LINUX).

helg
04-21-2018, 11:06 PM
According to these fst distances northern Russians aren't very close to Lithuanians/Latvians and are genetically most isolated group of Slavic speakers. See:
https://i.imgur.com/mRpfIqS.png

for any research, Finns are no closer to Northern Russians than Balts or other Eastern Slavs - Y-DNA, MtDNA, Autosomal DNA. Finns had no greater influence on Northern Russians than Balts. Germans are less than others.

Jana
04-21-2018, 11:08 PM
for any research, Finns are no closer to Northern Russians than Balts or other Eastern Slavs - Y-DNA, MtDNA, Autosomal DNA. Finns had no greater influence on Northern Russians than Balts. Germans are less than others.

Finnish member here also say that, that Finnish and northern Russians isn't related.

helg
04-21-2018, 11:20 PM
Finnish member here also say that, that Finnish and northern Russians isn't related.

because genetically these are really quite different populations. Influence is not so great as to talk about genetic intimacy.

de Burgh II
04-21-2018, 11:25 PM
Russians are apart of the greater Slavic identity/culture that collectively includes Western, Eastern and Southern Slavs. Chronicles on Slavs are sparse in antiquity due to Greeks mostly chronicling about Celtic and Germanic tribes due to their more prevalent interactions with one another that was bad and good. Nevertheless, if I remember correctly, Proto-Slavic was very apparent even in 1,500 BC linguistically speaking stretching from Western Poland to the Dnieper river close to Belarus. Slavs were chronicled around 5th Century C.E./A.D. onwards when they came in contact with East Germanic tribes that eventually got pushed back westwards, etc. Having close interactions with Iranics, Balts, Finnics as well as they expanded northward and further eastward.

As Stearsolina reiterates, Northern Russians have a close affinity with Finnic tribes. Whereas Southern and Central Russians have a close affinity with Western Slavics such as Belarusians, Poles, etc.

Genetically speaking, Russians are a distinct ethnicity of mostly Indo-European/Steppic ancestry (Slavic) and a native Pre-Slavic substratum that is yet to be identified.

As reiterated by a study by Kushniarevich, et al. (2015):

Abstract

The Slavic branch of the Balto-Slavic sub-family of Indo-European languages underwent rapid divergence as a result of the spatial expansion of its speakers from Central-East Europe, in early medieval times. This expansion–mainly to East Europe and the northern Balkans–resulted in the incorporation of genetic components from numerous autochthonous populations into the Slavic gene pools. Here, we characterize genetic variation in all extant ethnic groups speaking Balto-Slavic languages by analyzing mitochondrial DNA (n = 6,876), Y-chromosomes (n = 6,079) and genome-wide SNP profiles (n = 296), within the context of other European populations. We also reassess the phylogeny of Slavic languages within the Balto-Slavic branch of Indo-European. We find that genetic distances among Balto-Slavic populations, based on autosomal and Y-chromosomal loci, show a high correlation (0.9) both with each other and with geography, but a slightly lower correlation (0.7) with mitochondrial DNA and linguistic affiliation. The data suggest that genetic diversity of the present-day Slavs was predominantly shaped in situ, and we detect two different substrata: ‘central-east European’ for West and East Slavs, and ‘south-east European’ for South Slavs. A pattern of distribution of segments identical by descent between groups of East-West and South Slavs suggests shared ancestry or a modest gene flow between those two groups, which might derive from the historic spread of Slavic people. [...]

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/figure/image?size=large&id=10.1371/journal.pone.0135820.g001
The map (lower panel) shows the geographical distribution of Balto-Slavic populations (colored areas) within Europe. The symbols on the map represent the geographic location of the populations genotyped. The map was created in the GeneGeo software as described previously [68,75]. A manually constructed consensus phylogenetic tree of the Balto-Slavic languages (upper panel) is based on the StarlingNJ, NJ, BioNJ, UPGMA, Bayesian MCMC, Unweighted Maximum Parsimony methods. Ternary nodes resulting from neighboring binary nodes were joined together if the temporal distance between them was ≤ 300 years. StarlingNJ dates are proposed (S2 File).

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/figure/image?size=large&id=10.1371/journal.pone.0135820.g002
a) PC1vsPC3 plot based on autosomal SNPs (PC1 = 0.53; PC3 = 0.26); b) MDS based on NRY data (stress = 0.13); c) MDS based on mtDNA data (stress = 0.20). We focus on PC1vsPC3 because PC2 (S1 Fig) whilst differentiating the Volga region populations from the rest of Europeans had a low efficiency in detecting differences among the Balto-Slavic populations–the primary focus of this work.

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/figure/image?size=large&id=10.1371/journal.pone.0135820.g003
Ancestry proportions of 1,194 individuals as revealed by ADMIXTURE.

Introduction

Balto-Slavic speakers comprise around one-third of present-day Europeans and occupy nearly a half of the European subcontinent. There is a near consensus among linguists that the Baltic and Slavic languages stem from a common root, Proto-Balto-Slavic, which separated from other Indo-European languages around 4,500–7,000 years before present (YBP) [1–8] and whose origin is mapped to Central Europe [8]. The Balto-Slavic node was recognized already in the pioneer Indo-European tree by [9]. The split between Baltic and Slavic branches has been dated to around 3,500–2,500 YBP [6–8], whereas further diversification of the Slavic languages probably occurred much later, around 1,700–1,300 YBP according to [6–8,10–12]. The phenomenon of the “Slavicization” of Europe–dispersion of the Slavic languages–was discussed in early studies [13–15].

Although there is no single archaeological signature for their spread, historical records suggest that a major Slavic expansion across Europe took place approximately 1,400–1,000 YBP [16–19]; reviewed recently in [20]. The Slavic expansion in Eastern Europe affected areas previously occupied by Baltic, Finno-Ugric and Turkic speaking populations; in Central-West Europe groups speaking Germanic languages; and in the Balkans populations of diverse linguistic affiliation [10,11,18,19,21].

The question of to what extent this recent cultural transformation within Europe affected its genetic landscape has been the subject of numerous studies. Uniparental genetic markers, mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) and the non-recombining part of the Y-chromosome (NRY), indicate that the genetic composition of Slavs does not differ significantly from that of their neighboring non-Slavic populations [22–34]. In addition, age estimates for major paternal and maternal lineages of East-Central Europe point to an expansion that pre-dates the historic spread of Slavs. For example, whilst the geographic distribution of NRY haplogroups (hg) I-P37 and R1a-Z282 overlaps with the area occupied by the present-day Slavs, coalescent times suggest that the current diversity within these hgs existed prior to the Slavic expansion [29,35]. Similarly, the phylogeography of mtDNA hgs that are more frequent in West and East Slavs–such as H5a1, U4a2, U5a2a, U5a2b1 –suggests continuity within East-Central Europe for at least two thousand years [28,36–38]. While these genetic components predated the Slavic expansion, a recent study on the distribution of genomic segments identical by descent (IBD) among different European populations revealed a high number of shared segments among East Europeans that can be dated to around 1,000–2,000 YBP [39]. Similarly, multi-directional admixture events among East Europeans (both Slavic and non-Slavic), dated to around 1,000–1,600 YBP, were inferred in [40]. Both patterns were interpreted as genetic signals for the movements of people during a period that includes the proposed time-frame for the Slavic expansion. Until now, however, no genome-scale study focusing on Balto-Slavic populations has been available and only a small number of groups have been included in genome-wide SNP scans of genetic diversity in Europe [41–48].

Here, our aim is to contribute to a comprehensive understanding of patrilineal, matrilineal and autosomal genetic variation in the Balto-Slavic-speaking peoples. The Balto-Slavic “case” allows us to test correlations across these three genetic systems in well-established linguistic and geographic space, and to address questions about the genetic history of the carriers of this large linguistic subfamily within the neighboring non-Balto-Slavic Indo-European, Finno-Ugric, North Caucasian and Turkic speakers. To do so, we analyze 6,876 mtDNAs, 6,079 NRYs and 296 whole genome SNP profiles representing all extant Balto-Slavic populations, of which 917, 2,392 and 70, respectively, are reported here for the first time. We complement our genetic study with linguistic evidence, in particular by refining the phylogeny of the extant Slavic languages.


Results
Genetic structuring of Balto-Slavic populations

The genetic structuring of Balto-Slavic populations (Fig 1) in a European context is shown in three plots, representing autosomal PC1vsPC3, NRY and mtDNA MDS analyses, respectively (Fig 2A, 2B and 2C). In the autosomal-and NRY-based plots, most Balto-Slavic populations are dispersed along the north-south axis of their geographic origin (Fig 2A and 2B). In their Y-chromosomal and autosomal variation, East Slavs–Russians from central-southern regions, Belarusians and Ukrainians– form a cluster on their own, though these populations do not overlap entirely with each other (Fig 2A and 2B). This group is characterized by low mean values of population pairwise genetic distances (DNei = 0.125 for NRY; FST = 0.0008 for autosomal data) (Tables A,B in S1 File). In contrast, Russians from the northern region of the European part of Russia are differentiated from the rest of the East Slavs, and on genetic plots lie in the vicinity of their Finnic-speaking geographic neighbors. Accordingly, the average genetic distances between North Russians and the rest of East Slavic populations are high: DNei = 0.584; FST = 0.0081) (Tables A,B in S1 File). Compared to the East Slavs, the West Slavs are more differentiated. In particular, Czechs (Fig 2A and 2B) and to a lesser extent also Slovaks (Fig 2A), are shifted towards Germans and other West Europeans, whereas Poles either overlap or lie close to East Slavs. Likewise, population pairwise genetic distances are as twice as high for West Slavs as for East Slavs (DNei = 0.241 for NRY; FST = 0.0014) (Tables A,B in S1 File). Notably, genetic distances remain low after adding Poles to the Belarusians, Ukrainians and Russians from the central-southern regions (DNei = 0.144 for NRY; FST = 0.0006 for autosomal data), indicating thereby an extended geographic area with low genetic differentiation among the majority of Slavic speakers across Central-East Europe.

Most South Slavs are separated from the rest of the Balto-Slavic populations and form a sparse group of populations with internal differentiation into western (Slovenians, Croatians and Bosnians) and eastern (Macedonians and Bulgarians) regions of the Balkan Peninsula with Serbians placed in-between (Fig 2A and 2B). The mean population pairwise genetic distances for South Slavs (DNei = 0.239 for NRY; FST = 0.0009 for autosomal data) (Tables A,B in S1 File) are comparable or higher to the ones for East Slavs despite the smaller region within the Balkan Peninsula that they occupy. Furthermore, Slovenians lie close to the non-Slavic-speaking Hungarians, whereas eastern South Slavs group is located together with non-Slavic-speaking but geographically neighboring Romanians and, to some extent, with Greeks.

Both extant Baltic-speaking populations, Latvians and Lithuanians, lie in the vicinity of Finno-Ugric-speaking Estonians according to their Y-chromosome diversity (Fig 2B), whilst in their autosomal variation they are slightly shifted towards the group of East Slavic speakers (Fig 2A). Also, one finds Volga-Finnic Mordvins close to the two Baltic-speaking populations (Fig 2A), potentially reflecting historic evidence that the Baltic-speaking tribes’ spread zone formerly reached more eastward parts of the East European Plain [49,50].

The patterns of genetic structure of the Balto-Slavic populations agree particularly between autosomal and NRY data. However, the maternal gene pool of the Balto-Slavic populations, although less structured possibly due to somewhat lower phylogenetic resolution of the dataset (Fig 2C, Tables C, D in S1 File), bears some features similar to those of autosomal and NRY ones such as the differentiation of North Russians and the overlap between East Slavs (Fig 2A, 2B and 2C). In contrast to mtDNA and even to autosomes, the NRY variation often reveals its fine structuring within the Balto-Slavic patrilineal gene pool (Fig 2B, see also Table E in S1 File).

Ancestral components of the Balto-Slavic gene pool

Using the clustering algorithm implemented in ADMIXTURE [51], we modeled ancestral genetic components in Balto-Slavic populations. Assuming six ancestral populations (K = 6) (see S1 Text: Methods for choosing a best K), Balto-Slavic speakers bear membership almost exclusively from two ancestral components: the dark blue (k3) and the light blue (k2), albeit in different proportions (Fig 3). k3 is omnipresent throughout European populations and decreases from north-eastern Europeans southwards. Thus, k3 peaks in Baltic speakers and prevails in East Slavs (80–95%) and decreases notably in South Slavs (55–70%). In contrast, k2 is abundant around the Mediterranean and in the Caucasus region and decreases among Europeans when moving northward. Accordingly, it makes up nearly 30% of ancestral proportions in South Slavs, decreases to around 20% in West and East Slavs and drops to around 5% in North Russians and Baltic speakers (Fig 3). The further division of the two major components (k3 and k2) in the Balto-Slavic populations at higher values of K indicates more complex structuring of genomes of South Slavs as compared to West and East Slavs (S2 Fig). As far as minor ancestral components are concerned, only West and East Slavs, and, predominantly North Russians, bear the ‘Siberian/Volga-region’ component (k5, lemon yellow) (Fig 3). It is noteworthy that the k6 component, predominant among Han Chinese and abundant in Mongols and Altaians, is virtually absent in Russians, suggesting that the “East Eurasian” share in North and Central Russian ancestry is due to admixture with North-Central Siberians, rather than with South Siberia/Mongols (Fig 3, S2 Fig).

Distribution of segments identical by descent among Balto-Slavic speakers and surrounding populations

To analyze further the patterns of gene flow among the Balto-Slavic populations and their non-Slavic neighbors as well as to explore the genetic heritage of the suggested Slavic migration from Central-East to the Balkan region of Europe, we focused on the pairwise sharing of IBD segments [39,52] and applied the fIBD algorithm [53]. We created two groups of Slavs–East-West Slavs (1) and South Slavs (2)–and seven additional groups of populations representing the geographic context for present-day Slavs (S3 Fig; Table F in S1 File). As a measure of IBD sharing, we used an average number of IBD segments per pair of individuals (which we refer to as ibd-statistic). We calculated the ibd-statistic for the two groups of Slavic speakers, and compared it to the ibd-statistic for each of the groups of Slavs and their respective non-Slavic neighboring groups of populations (S3 Fig and Table F in S1 File, S1 Text: Methods for detailed description of the analysis).

IBD analysis (Fig 4A, Table G in S1 File) reveals three patterns of IBD sharing relevant to the group of East-West Slavs in a European context. Firstly, the ibd-statistics for East-West Slavs and South Slavs (within-Slavic IBD sharing) are significantly higher than those for East-West Slavs and populations of the Volga region, West Europeans and North Caucasians (p<<0.01) (Fig 4A, Table G in S1 File). Secondly, however, this level of within-Slavic IBD sharing is lower than among East-West Slavs and populations from north-east Europe (i.e. Baltic speakers/Estonians; Karelians/Vepsa/Russians North): East-West Slavs share twice as many IBD segments with north-east Europeans as with South Slavs (p<<0.01) (Table G in S1 File). Note that exclusion of the North Russian population from the group of north-east Europeans did not lead to a significant drop in the IBD sharing between East-West Slavs and north-east Europeans (S4 Fig). Finally, the ibd-statistics for East-West Slavs and South Slavs do not differ (p = 0.08–0.8) from that of East-West Slavs and the ‘inter-Slavic’ group of populations, i.e. Hungarians, Romanians and Gagauz (Table G in S1 File, Fig 4A).

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/figure/image?size=large&id=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0135820.g004

Fig 4. Distribution of the average number of IBD segments between groups of East-West Slavs (a), South Slavs (b), and their respective geographic neighbors.

The x-axis indicates ten classes of IBD segment length (in cM); the y-axis indicates the average number of shared IBD segments per pair of individuals within each length class.


South Slavs in their turn share a similar number of IBD segments with East-West Slavs and with the ‘inter-Slavic’ Romanian, Hungarian and Gagauz populations (Fig 4B; Table G in S1 File). Notably, South Slavs share significantly fewer IBD segments for length classes 1.5–3 cM with their immediate geographic neighbors in south–Greeks–than with the group of East-West Slavs (Fig 4B).

Altogether, the analysis of IBD segment distributions revealed even patterns of IBD sharing among East-West Slavs–‘inter-Slavic’ populations (Hungarians, Romanians and Gagauz)–and South Slavs, i.e. across an area of assumed historic movements of people including Slavs.
Lexicostatistical reconstruction of the Balto-Slavic languages

We applied a lexicostatistical approach to refine the phylogeny of the extant Balto-Slavic languages [6,7,54], focusing here particularly on the Slavic sub-branch topology and temporal estimates (for lexicostatistical dataset and methodology see S2 File, Figs A-M in S2 File, Tables A-C in S3 File; S1 Dataset). The initial division of Proto-Slavic remains unresolved: a ternary split into West, East and South dated to around 1900 YBP is suggested in the consensus phylogenetic tree (Fig 1 upper panel, Fig G in S2 File; see Figs B-F in S2 File for Proto-Slavic split discrepancies between different phylogenetic methods). Further diversification of the Slavic languages took place around 1300–1500 YBP, followed by shaping of the individual languages 1000–500 YBP. Our reconstruction suggests the existence of several intermediate clades–Ukrainian/Belarusian within East Slavic, Czech/Slovak and Polish/Kashubian within West Slavic–whereas a ternary structure is suggested for Serbo-Croatian, Bulgarian and Macedonian within South Slavic (Fig 1, Figs B-G in S2 File). Modern Slovenian, due to its vocabulary exhibiting a significant level of mixture with West and South Slavic languages, was excluded from the lexicostatistical analysis (for details see S2 File: The case of the Slovenian language, Figs H-M in S2 File).
Partitioning the genetic variation according to the linguistic variation

Analysis of molecular variance (AMOVA) partitions the overall genetic diversity in a group of populations into fractions according to hierarchical levels of population structure. We analyzed the distribution of the NRY diversity among three levels of the linguistic tree of Balto-Slavic languages (see S1 Text, S5 Fig). The NRY diversity at the lowest level1 of the population structure–among local populations speaking the same language–varies from almost 0 within Czechs and Macedonians to 0.05 within North Russians, being on average about 0.01 (Table H in S1 File). The genetic differentiation among ethnic populations belonging to the same linguistic branch (level2) is around 0.03, and variation among branches (level3) of Balto-Slavic languages increases to 0.06 (Table H in S1 File).
Correlation between genetic, geographic and linguistic distances of Balto-Slavic populations

A Mantel test was applied to compare the roles which geography and language have played in shaping the genetic variation of the Balto-Slavic populations (Fig 5, Tables I,J in S1 File). The test was performed independently for the three genetic systems, with all three exhibiting a very high correlation with geography (0.80–0.95) and slightly lower (0.74–0.78) correlation with linguistics (Table J in S1 File). Because the linguistic pattern itself is highly correlated with geography (Fig 5), partial correlations were considered to distinguish between the direct and indirect influences of geography on the two other systems. The correlations with linguistics became much lower whilst all three genetic systems maintained high correlations with geography (Table J in S1 File).

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/figure/image?size=large&id=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0135820.g005
Fig 5. Correlations between matrices of genetic, geographic and linguistic distances among Balto-Slavic populations.

Discussion
Two major genetic substrata are embedded in the gene pools of Slavs

The results of our study have shown the close genetic proximity of the majority of West and East Slavic populations inhabiting the geographic area from Poland in the west, to the Volga River in the East (Fig 2A and 2B, Tables A,B in S1 File). Some mtDNA haplotypes of hgs H5, H6, U4a were more frequent in the genomes of West and East Slavic speakers, providing thereby further evidence for the matrilineal unity of West and East Slavs [28,36] as well as continuity of mtDNA diversity in the territory of modern Poland for at least two millennia [38].

In contrast to this apparent genetic homogeneity of the majority of West and East Slavs, the gene pool of South Slavs, who are confined to the geographically smaller Balkan Peninsula, differs substantially and shows internal differentiation, as testified by their NRY and autosomal variation (Fig 2A and 2B; Fig 3, Tables A,B in S1 File). Consequently, we suggest that there is a “central-east European” genetic substratum in West and East Slavs, exemplified by NRY hgs R1a and the k3 ancestry component, and a “south-east European” one, featuring NRY hgs I2a and E plus the k2 ancestry component for South Slavs (Fig 2A and 2B, Fig 3, Table K in S1 File; Tables A,B in S1 File). Notably, the “south-east European” component does not extend to the whole Balkan Peninsula, as South Slavs are differentiated from Greek sub-populations except Macedonian Greeks (Fig 2A, Fig 4B) [55].

The importance of these substrata in shaping the genetic diversity of the present-day Slavs is evident from the observed lower IBD relatedness between the combined group of East-West Slavs and South Slavs than with north-east Europeans, including Baltic speakers (Fig 4A). The latter reside within the East European Plain and presumably represent the “central-east European” pre-Slavic substratum (Fig 4A, Table G in S1 File). AMOVA results also support the substrata prevalence, because genetic variation among Slavic branches (which assimilated different substratum populations) strongly exceeds intra-branch variation (Table H in S1 File). The influence of geography in shaping the Slavic genetic heritage (Fig 5, Table J in S1 File) led to the same conclusion, because if substratum importance is the major factor shaping the genetic relationships among present-day Slavic-speaking populations, these will not reflect the relationship among expanding Slavic languages, but should instead reflect the relationships between pre-Slavic populations, which can be approximated by geographical distances between them.
Demographic mechanisms shaping the gene pool of Slavic speakers

Most West and East Slavs of Central-East Europe form genetically a compact group of populations that, as a general rule, differ from their western (Germanic-speaking) and eastern (Finno-Ugric-speaking) neighbors (Fig 2A and 2B; Fig 4A and 4B). However, so-called ‘contact’ zones of this group with non-Slavic peoples are characterized by various patterns of genetic clines or sharp genetic borders [27,32,56–58]. For example, there is a pronounced genetic proximity between Czechs and their immediate Germanic neighbors in the west (Fig 2A and 2B, Fig 3) [27,58] that could be attributed to the pre-Slavic gene pool formation of Central-East Europeans. In contrast, a clear genetic border exists nowadays between Poles and their immediate western neighbors Germans, and even between a West-Slavic-speaking minority–Sorbs–and their German host population (Fig 2B, Tables A,B in S1 File) [43,59]. It has been suggested, that this genetic boundary predates massive resettlements of people after World War II, and could have been shaped during medieval migrations of Germanic and Slavic peoples in the Vistula and Oder River basins [60]. In the north-east, a largely autochthonous (pre-Slavic) component is detected in the gene pool of Russians from northern regions of the European part of Russia (Fig 2A, 2B and 2C, Fig 3), which agrees with previous anthropological [61,62] and genetic [32,45,56,63] studies and supports substantial admixture of expanding Slavs with indigenous populations and, perhaps, language shift in the latter.

Taken together, several mechanisms including cultural assimilation of the autochthonous populations by expanding Slavs while maintaining the pre-Slavic genetic boundaries, and in situ gene pool shaping, are needed to explain the genetic patterns observed on the eastern, north-eastern and western margins of the current ‘Slavic area’ within Central-East Europe.

The presence of two distinct genetic substrata in the genomes of East-West and South Slavs would imply cultural assimilation of indigenous populations by bearers of Slavic languages as a major mechanism of the spread of Slavic languages to the Balkan Peninsula. Yet, it is worthwhile to add here evidence from the analysis of IBD segments: the majority of Slavs from Central-East Europe (West and East) share as many IBD segments with the South Slavs in the Balkan Peninsula as they share with non-Slavic populations residing nowadays between Slavs (Fig 4A and 4B; Table G in S1 File). This even mode of IBD sharing might suggest shared ancestry/gene flow across the wide area and physical boundaries such as the Carpathian Mountains, including the present-day Finno-Ugric-speaking Hungarians, Romance-speaking Romanians and Turkic-speaking Gagauz. A slight peak at 2–3 cM in the distribution of shared IBD segments between East-West and South Slavs (Fig 4A and 4B) might hint at shared “Slavonic-time” ancestry, but this question requires further investigation.

Expansion of Slavic languages took place in an area already occupied by speakers of the Baltic languages [49,50]. Despite significant linguistic divergence between extant East Baltic and Slavic languages (Fig 1) [7], Baltic populations are genetically the closest to East Slavs (Fig 2A and 2B, Table K in S1 File) [45,64–66] and here we found that they bear the highest number of shared IBD segments with the combined group of East-West Slavs (Fig 4, Table G in S1 File). The presence of a substantial “Baltic substratum” in the genomes of extant Slavs within East Europe might in part explain their genetic closeness to each other and difference from some neighboring non-Slavic groups.
A synthesis

Comparing genetic and linguistic reconstructions with geography has a long tradition in human population genetics [67]. Here, we have studied the autosomal, NRY and mtDNA diversity of all Balto-Slavic populations in the context of their linguistic variation and geography. A remarkable agreement between these five systems was found: correlation coefficients range from 0.68 to near the maximum (0.95). This agreement between datasets from different systems supports the reliability of the results and in most cases, when drawing a conclusion, we could find one supported by the majority of the systems analyzed. In particular, we found that autosomal and NRY compositions and geographic affiliations of the Balto-Slavic populations form a triad, all variables of which are very similar to each other.

Combining all lines of evidence, we suggest that the major part of the within-Balto-Slavic genetic variation can be primarily attributed to the assimilation of the pre-existing regional genetic components, which differed for West, East and South Slavic-speaking peoples as we know them today. [...]



Study:http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0135820#pone-0135820-g002

More studies can be searched here: https://scholar.google.com/

Livin
04-21-2018, 11:27 PM
Yamnaya (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamna_culture) were R1b yDNA, scythians were R1a yDNA, they aren't the firsts.

Its the proto indoeuropean languange....!Not a big diffrence.

Tauromachos
04-21-2018, 11:36 PM
For me scythians are the first indoeuropeans from the steppe of Black Sea and Ukraine.
Most of them were PontidMed.
They have nothin to do with Iranians.

Just simple indoeuropeans!!!!


Most of them were PontidMed.

At least some tribes were described as being lighter than the Greeks themselfes by ancient Greeks.

They were also called Hyperboreans people of the North and had made contact with Greeks and in some occasion they may have mixed
with Greeks.

Probably Slavic people in particular East Slavs may have alot of Scythian ancestry and the NE admixture in some Greeks may have come
from assimilating and mixing with Scythians in Ancient Greece and not only from Slavs.

Livin
04-21-2018, 11:58 PM
At least some tribes were described as being lighter than the Greeks themselfes by ancient Greeks.

They were also called Hyperboreans people of the North and had made contact with Greeks and in some occasion they may have mixed
with Greeks.

Probably Slavic people in particular East Slavs may have alot of Scythian ancestry and the NE admixture in some Greeks may have come
from assimilating and mixing with Scythians in Ancient Greece and not only from Slavs.

The hard question is what phenotype eastern slavs had?
Baltic?
Gorid?
Osteo?
Some kind of nordic?
North pontid(i guess hard)?

Livin
04-21-2018, 11:59 PM
At least some tribes were described as being lighter than the Greeks themselfes by ancient Greeks.

They were also called Hyperboreans people of the North and had made contact with Greeks and in some occasion they may have mixed
with Greeks.

Probably Slavic people in particular East Slavs may have alot of Scythian ancestry and the NE admixture in some Greeks may have come
from assimilating and mixing with Scythians in Ancient Greece and not only from Slavs.

The east nordids in russia and ukraine coming from the rus(varangian) elite warrior class.

Tauromachos
04-22-2018, 12:09 AM
The hard question is what phenotype eastern slavs had?
Baltic?
Gorid?
Osteo?
Some kind of nordic?
North pontid(i guess hard)?

Types such as East Nordid and North Pontid are likely to have existed along with East Alpine like types"Gorid"
and of course also Baltid.

But there may have also been other types on top of that as there are also today.

This is my guess

Ülev
04-22-2018, 07:20 AM
This site has problem with finnic operational systems (LINUX).

I don't see any problems in my linux, maybe try to install Russian fonts

https://a.uguu.se/5yFG1IczRpkR.png

Leto
04-22-2018, 07:28 AM
Slavic, Finnic and some Baltic. Scythians disappeared a few centuries before the foundation of Kievan Rus (9th century). Germanic influence is mininal (in Belarus I1 is less than 10% for example). Also, in Russia there's many recently mixed people who identify as Russian. Technically one can be 1/4 Buryat or Bashkir or Armenian or whatever, speak Russian and identify with Russia.

Böri
04-22-2018, 07:50 AM
There is a Turkic contribution in the historical upper classes of the Rus. There is not any sort of Scytho-Slavic continuation. However, there is Khazar (Ashina clan) continuation with the Scandinavian ruling stratum of the old Rus. First east Slavic polity and state formation ever was khaganate for good reason. Later that continued with Cumans and after that even with the Mongols of Ulus Jochi.
The Turkic element is absent among the Slavic peasantry who had semi-slave status (linked to land through serfdom) until 19th century.
The rest of the story is pure Stalinist invention, with the Ossetian pseudo-historian Abaev's contribution in the form of brain masturbation.

Sacrificed Ram
04-22-2018, 07:24 PM
I don't see any problems in my linux, maybe try to install Russian fonts

Possible.

Norswed
04-23-2018, 05:12 AM
No , most likely pre-slavic population.

NSXD60
04-23-2018, 05:17 AM
Slavs should have moved out of their homelands and headed toward Europe to avoid the Putin look, which is not what they and Scythians originally resembled.

Rethel
05-06-2018, 03:51 PM
Unban RETHEL!
We need his expert opinion!

Russians are Slavs. Slavs are Indoeuropeans. Indoeuropeans are R1. Problem solved.

Frequency115
05-22-2018, 05:26 PM
For me scythians are the first indoeuropeans from the steppe of Black Sea and Ukraine.
Most of them were PontidMed.
They have nothin to do with Iranians.

Just simple indoeuropeans!!!!
How could that be? We know that Iranic languages originated in the pontic steppe. names of Ukrainian rivers, name of Serbia and Croatia illustrate a clear Iranic involvement. the Scythians were the only known Iranic people who inhabited Ukraine and parts of eastern Europe along with the proto Slavs and baltics. For example, some Ukrainian river names such as Dnipro, Danube and Dnister are Iranian names. The closest translation for Danube is an Iranian translation (“flow of water”) which is derived from the Ossetian language. In old Persian, Danube simply means "downward flow of water". It is widely agreed upon that scythians were ancient Iranian tribes, related to Persians in the same way Russians are related to other slavic groups in eastern Europe.

Shaco
05-31-2018, 01:05 AM
R1a-Z93 were Turkic, Iranics are native to their lands. N1c is not only Uralic, Yakuts have 90% N1c.

You mongols never stop spreading so much nonsense. Iranian languages originated between borders of Russia and Ukraine. They migrated all the way into Iran through central Asia. Iran is no where near the native homes of Iranic people and Iranic languages. Central Asia is the native home of Iranic people and languages. Stick to your mongolian ancestry and quit claiming other people's culture.
Iranian languages are systematically related to other European languages, how could they be native to Iran? Its sad to see how much you mongoloids claim other cultures. I once met a brown turk who claimed that Germans were decendants of Turkic tribes. What are they teaching you people in Turkic countries?

de Burgh II
06-01-2018, 02:15 PM
Are Russians mostly descended from Slavs?

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/IdioticVengefulCondor-size_restricted.gif

Papastratosels26
06-01-2018, 02:23 PM
Yes i think so.

Nurzat
06-01-2018, 02:38 PM
this is Dodecad K12b in the OP, here is mine for comparison:

Gedrosia 4.03
Siberian 1.04
Northwest_African -
Southeast_Asian -
Atlantic_Med 25.27
North_European 43.66
South_Asian -
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 2.41
East_Asian 1.27
Caucasus 22.31
Sub_Saharan -