View Full Version : MOST LIKELY reason why Trapani is a genetic outlier in Sicily?
Sikeliot
04-25-2018, 01:01 AM
"SSI_SIC_TP" is Trapani.
While there is variation, the rest of the provinces whether Enna, Palermo, Catania, Ragusa, Agrigento are all fairly similar, but then there is Trapani which is an outlier. The blue "European-like" (Steppe) input is higher, the yellow "Caucasus-like" input is lower, and there is a small decrease in the red "Near Eastern-like" component. What is the MOST likely reason for this?
I have long believed it to be that Trapani is the sole recipient of significant Norman and post-Crusades Italian settlement of the island, but people on here have disagreed. Some have suggested that since the Bell Beakers were centered around the far west of the island, Trapani simply is in a different genetic cluster than neighboring Palermo/Agrigento which saw more migration from other parts of the island.
I do not think it is simply less historical Near Eastern input, since Trapani was an area of significant Arab/Berber settlement and Carthaginian/Phoenician in ancient times.
Based on the Bell Beaker samples we have, which were more Sardinian-like and Caucasian, it seems unlikely to me that Trapani is different due to ancient differentiation rather than greater impact from the rest of Italy and other parts of Europe in RECENT times.
https://i.imgur.com/eHID4b9.png
Bobby Martnen
04-26-2018, 06:48 AM
Probably extra Norman settlement.
Sikeliot
04-27-2018, 12:50 PM
Probably extra Norman settlement.
The fact that many of the people of Trapani plot north of other Sicilians and other southern Italians implies, to me, a significant population replacement in the area. I would say the same for Syracuse.
Alessio
04-27-2018, 12:53 PM
Perhaps he has some recent Tuscan ancestry. How do you know a large part of people from Trapani are more northern shifted?
Sikeliot
04-27-2018, 12:54 PM
Perhaps he has some recent Tuscan ancestry. How do you know a large part of people from Trapani are more northern shifted?
I have several results from there and many (not all) come out northern shifted, the same is true for Syracusans (though they shift more northeast toward Greeks).
Alessio
04-27-2018, 12:57 PM
I have several results from there and many (not all) come out northern shifted, the same is true for Syracusans (though they shift more northeast toward Greeks).
I see, perhaps there was some significant Norman settlement in Trapani. Sicily is way more diverse than other parts of Southern Italy, that's for sure.
Sikeliot
04-27-2018, 01:13 PM
I see, perhaps there was some significant Norman settlement in Trapani. Sicily is way more diverse than other parts of Southern Italy, that's for sure.
I think it is more repopulation from other parts of Italy rather than actual Normans settling en masse, but what is clear is when you compare Trapani to neighboring Palermo there is a difference.
Alessio
04-27-2018, 01:37 PM
From the north you mean by ''repopulation from other area's of Italy''?
I think it is more repopulation from other parts of Italy rather than actual Normans settling en masse, but what is clear is when you compare Trapani to neighboring Palermo there is a difference.
Sikeliot
04-27-2018, 01:43 PM
From the north you mean by ''repopulation from other area's of Italy''?
Yes.
If you look at the chart, the Trapani sample has the least Caucasian input of all the samples (less than any other part of southern Italy, Albania, or Greece sampled), and the most Steppe-like input of all the southern Italian samples (just having slightly less than Peloponnesians).
This should signal that much of their ancestry was transplanted from somewhere else.
Ajeje Brazorf
04-27-2018, 02:20 PM
Again, the difference between Trapani and the rest of Sicily is simply that they have higher Atlantic and lower West_Asian. That Beaker from Sicily was super low quality and wasn't that far from Trapani:
https://i.imgur.com/agI438d.png
Sikeliot
04-27-2018, 02:25 PM
Again, the difference between Trapani and the rest of Sicily is simply that they have higher Atlantic and lower West_Asian.
But for that to have happened, it means that the West Asian component was eroded in favor of an Atlantic-heavy population that settled later.
Ajeje Brazorf
04-27-2018, 02:49 PM
But for that to have happened, it means that the West Asian component was eroded in favor of an Atlantic-heavy population that settled later.
If Norman or north Italian populations had really influenced their DNA, they would have more North_Sea and less East_Med. They don't.
Sikeliot
04-27-2018, 02:54 PM
If Norman or north Italian populations had really influenced their DNA, they would have more North_Sea and less East_Med. They don't.
Then what explanation would you give for the difference?
Ajeje Brazorf
04-27-2018, 03:05 PM
Then what explanation would you give for the difference?
Before giving explanations I need ancient DNA, that Beaker was of too low quality. I want DNA of all the populations of southern Italy during the Iron Age, including Italic peoples and Greek settlers.
Unfortunately we do not have any of this.
Bobby Martnen
04-27-2018, 03:26 PM
The fact that many of the people of Trapani plot north of other Sicilians and other southern Italians implies, to me, a significant population replacement in the area. I would say the same for Syracuse.
Either that or the Arabs settled/mixed with locals less there
Sikeliot
04-27-2018, 03:27 PM
Either that or the Arabs settled/mixed with locals less there
No. Trapani was one of the most heavily Arabized.
Bobby Martnen
04-27-2018, 03:30 PM
No. Trapani was one of the most heavily Arabized.
Then it probably had the most resettlement during liberation. Either that, or it had more Albanians move there.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2025 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.