Which is the more Germanic haplogroup - I1, R1a, or R1b?

[Bobby Martnen]

Obviously the answer is I1.

[Albannach]

I1 is indigenous european, R1b-U106 seems more likely to have brought the proto-indoeuropean language that developed in to German.

[Norb]

I1 is indigenous european, R1b-U106 seems more likely to have brought the proto-indoeuropean language that developed in to German.

what came first R1a-L664 or R1b-U106?

[Ülev]

R1b correctly dressed looks interesting :p


https://youtu.be/NvS351QKFV4

[oszkar07]

what about 12 m223, is it likely Germanic, where does it fit ?

[Bobby Martnen]

what about 12 m223, is it likely Germanic, where does it fit ?

With it's I1 brothers, and not with R1ethelites.

[Leto]

What is the percentage of I1 among Germans and Austrians?

[Ülev]

bottom right corner of the map - Germanii

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/94/Butler_Orbis_Herodoti.jpg

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herodot

so I bet something like J1 Z-1828 branch, R1b ht-35 or some clades of J2

[Bobby Martnen]

What is the percentage of I1 among Germans and Austrians?

Not sure, but that doesn't determine if it's Germanic. Most Mexicans are R1b, but R1b isn't Mexican, it's from invaders.

[Leto]

Not sure, but that doesn't determine if it's Germanic. Most Mexicans are R1b, but R1b isn't Mexican, it's from invaders.
Mexicans are actually spreading Spanish and Jewish Y-DNA by mixing with American women, lol. Anyway, many half Mexicans look white.

[Bobby Martnen]

Mexicans are actually spreading Spanish and Jewish Y-DNA by mixing with American women, lol. Anyway, many half Mexicans look white.

Mexicans haplos are not really compatible with Anglo-Americans, we don't really have a lot of R1b. Anglo-Americans are mostly I1, with a little R1b.

[Ayman Vasconic]

Obviously the answer is I1.

Can't be. Germanics are Indo-Europeans. I-people are not Indo-Europeans = I-people are no Germanics. Much more are not more germanic than two other groups mentioned by you.

[Bobby Martnen]

Can't be.
Germanics are Indo-Europeans.
I-people are not Indo-Europeans.
= I-people are no Germanics. Much
more are not more germanic than two
other groups mentioned by you.

Rethel?

[Rethel]

Obviously the answer is I1.

:picard2:

[Bobby Martnen]

:picard2:

I1 is proto-Germanic. Also, welcome back, Rethel. What were you even banned for in the first place?

[Rethel]

I1 is proto-Germanic.

Nope.
If you use word proto, then it is even
more R1, than without this word.


Also, welcome back, Rethel. What were you even banned for in the first place?

Inter alia becasue of you.

[Dragoon]

What is the percentage of I1 among Germans and Austrians?

16% in Germans (north has more than south)
12% in Austrians.

for comparison...

34% Denmark
12% England
9% Poland
9% France
5% Russia
2% Spain

[Wrong]

I1 is proto-Germanic. Also, welcome back, Rethel. What were you even banned for in the first place?
Nope. It was Indo-Europeanized by the R1 true Germanics before moving to Scandinavia and seeking refugee there, evolving from one man just 3000 years ago.. Just like J2 was Indo-Europeanized by R1.

There, I said it.. I1 was spread by one Indo-Europeanized man 3000 years ago.

[Dragoon]

Not sure how accurate this is:

https://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml

They say Mesolithic Europeans

I1 = Nordic (pre-Germanic)
12b = pre-Celto-Germanic
12a1 = Sardinian, Iberian
12a2 = Dinaric, Danubian

then...

Bronze Age

R1a = Baltic-Slavic, Germanic, Iranian
R1b = Italo-Celtic, Germanic.


So basically Germanic came with IndoEuropeans and Germanized the earlier ones? (maybe similar with Slavic coming with IndoEuropeans and Slavicizing others?)
Not sure.

[Wrong]

Rethel?
I1 was heavily Neolithic and positioned in Central Europe before getting Indo-Europeanized, nearly dying off until one man took refugee with the invading R1's in Scandinavia. Scandinavians still have Ancient Neolithic words, unknown to Indo-European.

[Bobby Martnen]

Nope.
If you use word proto, then it is even
more R1, than without this word.

I1 was in Europe before R1.


Inter alia becasue of you.

I assure you, I didn't ask for you to be banned. I find you to be entertaining, and TBH the forum was kind of empty without you.

[Bobby Martnen]

Nope. It was Indo-Europeanized by the R1 true Germanics before moving to Scandinavia and seeking refugee there, evolving from one man just 3000 years ago.. Just like J2 was Indo-Europeanized by R1.

There, I said it.. I1 was spread by one Indo-Europeanized man 3000 years ago.

Well, R1 was mean to I1, and tried to do a genocide of us. Otherwise, we'd be 40% of Europe.

[Rethel]

I1 was in Europe before R1.

And this is one of the reasons, why cannot be a proto-germanic.
It is pre-germanic, what means before germans, non germanic.

Proto means origin, and origin of germans and protogermans
is indoeuropean, so it cannot be oldeuropean. Proto-Germans
lived in East Europe, before they came to Scandinavia, and at
that time in Scandia was different folk, certainly not having
anything to do with Germans and germanic language.

Saying, that I-men are protogermanic it is like saying, that
pre-columbian Indians are proto-Yankees and proto-Dixies...


I assure you, I didn't ask for you to be banned. I find you to be entertaining, and TBH the forum was kind of empty without you.

I know you didn;t, but you was a reason.

[Bobby Martnen]

And this is one of the reasons, why cannot be a proto-germanic.
It is pre-germanic, what means before germans, non germanic.

Proto means origin, and origin of germans and protogermans
is indoeuropean, so it cannot be oldeuropean. Proto-Germans
lived in East Europe, before they came to Scandinavia, and at
that time in Scandia was different folk, certainly not having
anything to do with Germans and germanic language.

Saying, that I-men are protogermanic it is like saying, that
pre-columbian Indians are proto-Yankees and proto-Dixies...

Fine, I1 is still more European than R1, though.


I know you didn;t, but you was a reason.

How come? I didn't tell you to make a thread calling me a "false Christian, a wolf in sheep's clothes"

[Rethel]

Well, R1 was mean to I1, and tried to do a genocide of us. Otherwise, we'd be 40% of Europe.

I1 before Indoeuropeans, was probably quite small in number, being like one of the small clades of I2.
And it wasn't like we arrived and met you. No, we met Farmerians, who allready did colonize you, and
you probably - at least in big part - were speaking in their language, and were even looking thike them.

[Rethel]

Fine, I1 is still more European than R1, though.

At that time there was no Europe, becasue europe was created by IEs,
and R1 inhabited HALF+ of the continent. So, how I1 is more european?


How come? I didn't tell you to make a thread calling me a "false Christian, a wolf in sheep's clothes"

Not only becasue of it.
And I said the truth - as long as you do not convert, but you claim to be christian,
you are false. Being a christian means beliving, actin and saying things in certain ways.
You do opposite, so it makes you a liar and deciver.

[Bobby Martnen]

I1 before Indoeuropeans, was probably quite small in number, being like one of the small clades of I2.
And it wasn't like we arrived and met you. No, we met Farmerians, who allready did colonize you, and
you probably - at least in big part - were speaking in their language, and were even looking thike them.

What's a "Farmerian"???????

[Wrong]

Well, R1 was mean to I1, and tried to do a genocide of us. Otherwise, we'd be 40% of Europe.
If not R1.. Others would genocide you, you were lucky R1 were merciful to you as they are the largest by far in % of the European population pools.

[Bobby Martnen]

If not R1.. Others would genocide you, you were lucky R1 were merciful to you as they are the largest by far in % of the European population pools.

No, if it wasn't for R1, I1 would have advanced even more quickly, and the industrial revolution would have probably happened in the 1500s.

[Wrong]

No, if it wasn't for R1, I1 would have advanced even more quickly, and the industrial revolution would have probably happened in the 1500s.
I1 would still be in the Stone Age if not for Farmers and Indo-Europeans.

http://economicsdetective.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/age_of_empires-1024x576.jpg

[Bobby Martnen]

I1 would still be in the Stone Age if not for Farmers and Indo-Europeans.


Proof?

I will instruct all my sons to breed the daughters of R1 with strong I1 sperm, so that R1 will get cucked by the I1 true Europeans.

[Wrong]

Proof?

I will instruct all my sons to breed the daughters of R1 with strong I1 sperm, so that R1 will get cucked by the I1 true Europeans.
I-people, in blue trunks, Stone Age technological level:

http://economicsdetective.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/age_of_empires-1024x576.jpg

[Bosniensis]

R1b is germanic R1a is steppe slavic and scythian

I1 being "I" originate from IJ Haplogroup that came through Balkans and Anatolia very long ago. R1 Haplogroup came through Steppes.

[Bobby Martnen]

I-people, in blue trunks, Stone Age technological level:

http://economicsdetective.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/age_of_empires-1024x576.jpg

Where is your proof they are I1????

[Wrong]

Where is your proof they are I1????
Blue color:

https://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml

[Rethel]

What's a "Farmerian"???????

So called farmers who colonized Europe from Anatolia.

A farmer is a job even in present times, so saying just Farmers could be misleading.
Farmerian is a folk, who brought that job to Western Europe and took name from the job.

Isn't it obvious?

[Bosniensis]

So called farmers who colonized Europe from Anatolia.

A farmer is a job even in present times, so saying just Farmers could be misleading.
Farmerian is a folk, who brought that job to Western Europe and took name from the job.

Isn't it obvious?

Welcome Back

[Bobby Martnen]

Blue color:

https://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml

That is not proof. Are you trolling?

[Fieraru]

What is this r1ethel thing people keep talking about, I don't get it

[Bobby Martnen]

What is this r1ethel thing people keep talking about, I don't get it

Rethel is a Polish poster here who is very obsessed with the R1 haplogroup.

[Rethel]

Rethel is a Polish poster here who is very obsessed with the R1 haplogroup.

Belive me: most of I-men here are more - you including.

[Bobby Martnen]

Belive me: most of I-men here are more - you including.

Your signature is literally a complaint about an I1 thread.

[Norb]

Belive me: most of I-men here are more - you including.

Rethel did you vote on the thread?

[Ülev]

I2a1 is then I1 then the rest

[de Burgh II]

R1b U106 (Western Germanic mutation) - Considered Proto-Germanic that came from the Steppes via Unetice Culture.

R1a- Z283 (Germany/Netherlands) and the Z284 (Scandinavian) Germanic mutations came from the Steppes via Corded Ware culture preceding u106 that is considered a subsidiary of the Balto-Slavic/Proto-Indo-European branch.

Thus, Germanic people are a hybrid between r1b and r1a.

I1 is simply native Scandinavian/ Norse via hunter-gatherers.

[Ülev]

I2a1 native to Europe, I1 too, R1b Celts, R1a Scyto-Sarmatians, R1b stole the name "German", from I people, R1a came later and real Germans went north and south to Scandinavia and Balkans, easy as that

note that Germans call themselves Deutsche, and Dutch people name is also similar and all those R1b came here via romanian Dacia (the same sounding)

https://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/R1b-migration-map.jpg

[Leto]

note that Germans call themselves Deutsche, and Dutch people name is also similar and all those R1b came here via romanian Dacia (the same sounding)

There is no relation between Dacia and deutsch. The etymology of deutsch and Dutch

From Middle High German diutisch, diutsch, tiutsch, tiusch, from Old High German diutisk, diutisc (“popular, vernacular”), from Proto-Germanic *þiudiskaz (“of the people, popular”), an adjective from Proto-Germanic *þeudō (“people”) (compare Old English þeod), from Proto-Indo-European *tewtéh₂. Compare Dutch Diets, Duits, Low German dütsch, düütsch. See also Dutch.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/deutsch

[Rethel]

Rethel did you vote on the thread?

No, becasue there is no relevant option.
I can't choose between two Rs, 1a and
1b, as both were equaly important.

[Latinus]

I1.

[Kelmendasi]

R1b U106 (Western Germanic mutation) - Considered Proto-Germanic that came from the Steppes via Unetice Culture.

R1a- Z283 (Germany/Netherlands) and the Z284 (Scandinavian) Germanic mutations came from the Steppes via Corded Ware culture preceding u106 that is considered a subsidiary of the Balto-Slavic/Proto-Indo-European branch.

Thus, Germanic people are a hybrid between r1b and r1a.

I1 is simply native Scandinavian/ Norse via hunter-gatherers.
You forgot R1a-L664 which also took part in the Germanic ethnos, Z283 seems more like a Balto-Slavic clade to me probably brought to the Germanics via Slavic contact. I2a2 clades seem to be Germanic as well although they were originally WHG and not IE

[Kelmendasi]

https://indo-european.info/ie/Germanic

[Alstrohma]

So, r1b, r1a and I1 all are part of the Germanics?

[Altaylardan Tunaya]

I1

[Matxe92]

R1 didn't even originate in europe. So clearly it's I1.
R1 is a bigger haplogroup now tho.

[gıulıoımpa]

R1 didn't even originate in europe. So clearly it's I1.
R1 is a bigger haplogroup now tho.

one has to remember germanics and italokelts (r1b) came from modern Ukraine being indoeuropeans. so i don't think the criterium of "being there first" would work very well in this case.

at the same time it is true that invaders never displace 100% natives.

[Matxe92]

one has to remember germanics and italokelts (r1b) came from modern Ukraine being indoeuropeans. so i don't think the criterium of "being there first" would work very well in this case.

at the same time it is true that invaders never displace 100% natives.

I1 most likely originated in northern Germany / Jutland, which i consider to be the heart of germanics.
I think that point has some weight to it.

Isn't I1 the least spread european haplogroup also? It's almost exclusively found amongst germanics, and heavily amongst scandinavians. That's another point aswell.

[acerocl]

I dont think we can talk about a germanic haplogroup. Germany is in the middle of Europe so german people are one of the more mixed people in this continent. Just search on internet a genetic map of Europe. They are 45% R1b, 15% R1b, 15% I1, 6% I2, 6%E, 5%J2, 5%G, etc. This question makes sense in other countries more homogeneous genetically speaking like Ireland (r1b), Spain (r1b), Wales (r1b), Finnland (N). But Germany?