Is there actually any part of any country that is entirely genetically separate?

[Sikeliot]

What I mean is we often hear of romanticized tales of specific regions of countries, islands, etc. being entirely separate, usually being the result of some area having avoided conquest. I have spent much time searching for them myself.

Examples are:

1. Western Ireland supposedly being separate from the rest of Ireland genetically and being Iberian-like or at least, "pure" Irish
2. Southwestern England and Wales having no Saxon input and being Iberian-like or "pure" British
3. Parts of remote Sicily or Crete being "pure" Doric Greek or "pure" Middle Eastern or "pure" Italo-Celtic or whatever
4. Some part of Iberia having almost no Moorish DNA (this does exist in Basques, but otherwise, not really)

Does such a thing even exist?

I have come to conclude that the majority of European genetic structures have been in place for thousands of years well before any conquests or settlements we'd know of, and that demographic changes were wide-reaching and rarely skipped over any areas.

[Harkonnen]

If you check Esko et al 2012 you will find out there are some villages in Italy which are so drifted that they have closer FST distance to Finns than they have to each other.

[Sikeliot]

If you check Esko et al 2012 you will find out there are some villages in Italy which are so drifted that they have closer FST distance to Finns than they have to each other.

These are North European shifted isolates autosomally?

[Harkonnen]

These are North European shifted isolates autosomally?

No I meant that they are very extreme genetic isolates.

[Sikeliot]

No I meant that they are very extreme genetic isolates.

Bottlenecked and inbred most likely. The Griko in Calabria are an example.

[Harkonnen]

Bottlenecked and inbred most likely. The Griko in Calabria are an example.

Not necessarily inbred. There is a bit of misunderstanding on this


The observed level of genetic isolation in Friuli-Venezia Giulia region is more extreme according to several measures of isolation compared with Sardinians, French Basques and northern Finns, thus proving the status of an isolate.

www.nature.com/articles/ejhg2012229

[Harkonnen]

https://media.nature.com/original/nature-assets/ejhg/journal/v21/n6/extref/ejhg2012229x7.jpg

According to Fst distances Italians from Resia are genetically closer to Finns than they are to Italians from Sauris.

Likewise Italians from Sauris are genetically closer to Finns than to Italians from Resia. According to Fst.

This is exactly why I have a little laff to folk who take Fst seriously.

[Mens-Sarda]

https://media.nature.com/original/nature-assets/ejhg/journal/v21/n6/extref/ejhg2012229x7.jpg

According to Fst distances Italians from Resia are genetically closer to Finns than they are to Italians from Sauris.

Likewise Italians from Sauris are genetically closer to Finns than to Italians from Resia. According to Fst.

This is exactly why I have a little laff to folk who take Fst seriously.

If I remember correctly the people of Val Resia speak a Slovenian dialect, so they are technically Slovenians, they form a little community within the borders of Friuli, linguistically and culturally separated from the rest of the region.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resian_dialect

[Bobby Martnen]

Sardinians, maybe.

[Petalpusher]

If I remember correctly the people of Val Resia speak a Slovenian dialect, so they are technically Slovenians, they form a little community within the borders of Friuli, linguistically and culturally separated from the rest of the region.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resian_dialect

They are more or less ethnically Slovenians (and bottlenecked), not very surprising, since Slovenians are closer to Finns than to other more regular N.Italians.

https://media.springernature.com/full/nature-static/assets/v1/image-assets/ejhg2012229f1.jpg

SMC are like that as well, maybe more half IT/SI and without the founder effect i think.

[Harkonnen]

They are more or less ethnically Slovenians (and bottlenecked), not very surprising, since Slovenians are closer to Finns than to other more regular N.Italians.

https://media.springernature.com/full/nature-static/assets/v1/image-assets/ejhg2012229f1.jpg

SMC are like that as well, maybe more half IT/SI and without the founder effect i think.

I don't know if you missed my point but according to that Fst-table these Italian isolates (be they Slovenian or whatever) are not close to Finns. In fact they are the most distant population in that table to the North Finnish isolate. Even Sephardic Jews are closer.

Sephardid distance to Finnish isolate 0.025
Italians from Resia distance to Finnish isolate. 0.033

Smaller number means closer distance.

Yet at the same time these Italian-Slovenian isolates are closer to North Finnish isolate than they are to each other exactly because of massive genetic drift.

[Petalpusher]

I don't know if you missed my point but according to that Fst-table these Italian isolates (be they Slovenian or whatever) are not close to Finns. In fact they are the most distant population in that table to the North Finnish isolate. Even Sephardic Jews are closer.

Sephardid distance to Finnish isolate 0.025
Italians from Resia distance to Finnish isolate. 0.033

Smaller number means closer distance.

Yet at the same time these Italian-Slovenian isolates are closer to North Finnish isolate than they are to each other exactly because of massive genetic drift.

I got what you meant, none are close because they are incredibly drifted, i just don't find it surprising that regardless of the scale of distances, Resia has a little more relationship with Finn (g) and even Finn (i) than to other Italian isolates (i), because not italian + their own drift. If anything it could also show they have drifted even more than the Finn isolate.

Genetic drift doesn't alter so much the affinities a group has, it mostly lowers the relationship with everybody. If you look at Resia i (isolate) and compare to regular pop g (general/non isolate), it's what you would expect, farthest from Finns (G) and closest to Resia (G) obviously, then Slovenians/Czech in the first since this is still what they are despite the drift, while Resia (G) would be the closest to Slovenians.

I remember on the pca of the NE Italy isolate's study, Resia (i) was all alone in some corner.