Who can plot these for me on Eurogenes -- Trapani vs Syracuse, Sicily

[Sikeliot]

I want to see how the two regions come out considering they are two of the most distinctive. Trapani and Syracuse do not form the same cluster as other Sicilians.

Please color code Trapani RED and Syracuse BLUE..


Trapani:
# Population Percent
1 East_Med 30.08
2 West_Med 19.75
3 Atlantic 18.08
4 North_Sea 9.83
5 West_Asian 8.57
6 Red_Sea 5.76
7 Eastern_Euro 4.09
8 Baltic 1.99
9 Northeast_African 1.41
10 Sub-Saharan 0.44


Trapani:
# Population Percent
1 East_Med 27.08
2 West_Med 17.63
3 Atlantic 16.47
4 West_Asian 12.62
5 North_Sea 11.12
6 Red_Sea 5.54
7 Baltic 4.48
8 Eastern_Euro 1.91
9 Northeast_African 1.87
10 Sub-Saharan 0.97
11 Southeast_Asian 0.31


Trapani:
# Population Percent
1 East_Med 30.65
2 West_Med 17.59
3 Atlantic 15.87
4 West_Asian 11.13
5 North_Sea 10.88
6 Baltic 6.53
7 Red_Sea 5.04
8 Northeast_African 1.62
9 South_Asian 0.48
10 Southeast_Asian 0.2


Trapani:
# Population Percent
1 East_Med 26.28
2 West_Med 20.35
3 North_Sea 18.17
4 Atlantic 11.46
5 West_Asian 11.36
6 Red_Sea 4.98
7 Eastern_Euro 3.76
8 South_Asian 2.15
9 Sub-Saharan 1.06
10 Northeast_African 0.44


Trapani:
# Population Percent
1 East_Med 26.33
2 West_Med 19.32
3 West_Asian 14.35
4 Atlantic 13.57
5 North_Sea 11.27
6 Red_Sea 5.87
7 Baltic 5.36
8 Eastern_Euro 2.42
9 Sub-Saharan 0.8
10 Northeast_African 0.63
11 Oceanian 0.04
12 South_Asian 0.03
13 Southeast_Asian 0.01


Trapani:
# Population Percent
1 East_Med 30.85
2 Atlantic 18.69
3 West_Med 16.74
4 West_Asian 12.27
5 North_Sea 8.08
6 Red_Sea 5.65
7 Baltic 5.51
8 Sub-Saharan 0.95
9 South_Asian 0.75
10 Northeast_African 0.38
11 Eastern_Euro 0.14


Trapani:
# Population Percent
1 East_Med 27.46
2 West_Med 18.06
3 Atlantic 12.86
4 North_Sea 11.31
5 West_Asian 10.7
6 Baltic 7.6
7 Red_Sea 5.87
8 Eastern_Euro 4.3
9 Sub-Saharan 1.12
10 Southeast_Asian 0.71


Trapani:
# Population Percent
1 East_Med 24.76
2 West_Med 18.51
3 Atlantic 16.89
4 West_Asian 13.8
5 North_Sea 10.97
6 Red_Sea 6.53
7 Baltic 3.79
8 Eastern_Euro 1.85
9 Northeast_African 1.6
10 Southeast_Asian 0.87
11 Sub-Saharan 0.23
12 Amerindian 0.15
13 Oceanian 0.05




Syracuse:
# Population Percent
1 East_Med 27.08
2 West_Med 17.28
3 Atlantic 16.19
4 West_Asian 14.95
5 North_Sea 13.24
6 Baltic 4.27
7 Red_Sea 2.96
8 Sub-Saharan 1.39
9 Eastern_Euro 1.04
10 Northeast_African 0.59
11 Siberian 0.53
12 Southeast_Asian 0.33
13 Oceanian 0.17


Syracuse:
# Population Percent
1 East_Med 28.86
2 Atlantic 18.59
3 West_Med 16.85
4 West_Asian 11.35
5 North_Sea 9.54
6 Red_Sea 6.44
7 Baltic 2.42
8 Northeast_African 2.29
9 Eastern_Euro 1.91
10 Sub-Saharan 1.2
11 Siberian 0.49
12 Oceanian 0.06
13 South_Asian 0.01


Syracuse:
# Population Percent
1 East_Med 24.68
2 West_Med 17.78
3 Atlantic 17.25
4 West_Asian 15.27
5 North_Sea 12.82
6 Red_Sea 5.12
7 Baltic 3.47
8 Sub-Saharan 1.73
9 Eastern_Euro 1.66
10 Northeast_African 0.23


Syracuse:
# Population Percent
1 East_Med 27.48
2 West_Med 17.24
3 Atlantic 15.12
4 West_Asian 15.03
5 North_Sea 11.29
6 Red_Sea 5.23
7 Baltic 5.07
8 Eastern_Euro 1.24
9 Sub-Saharan 0.86
10 Oceanian 0.57
11 Northeast_African 0.49
12 Southeast_Asian 0.38


Syracuse:
# Population Percent
1 East_Med 28.21
2 West_Med 19.22
3 West_Asian 16.32
4 Atlantic 10.4
5 North_Sea 9.36
6 Baltic 7.83
7 Red_Sea 4.03
8 Eastern_Euro 3.17
9 Northeast_African 1.25
10 Southeast_Asian 0.15
11 Sub-Saharan 0.07


Syracuse:
# Population Percent
1 East_Med 28.21
2 West_Med 18.61
3 Atlantic 16.36
4 North_Sea 12.21
5 West_Asian 11.6
6 Red_Sea 4.46
7 Baltic 3.95
8 Eastern_Euro 1.73
9 Northeast_African 1.38
10 Southeast_Asian 1.15
11 Siberian 0.23
12 Oceanian 0.08
13 Amerindian 0.04


Syracuse:
# Population Percent
1 East_Med 26.06
2 West_Med 21.13
3 Atlantic 15.06
4 West_Asian 12.74
5 North_Sea 8.57
6 Baltic 5.67
7 Red_Sea 4.37
8 Eastern_Euro 3.93
9 South_Asian 1.14
10 Oceanian 0.72
11 Northeast_African 0.45
12 Southeast_Asian 0.16

[Bobby Martnen]

I'll do this in 2 hours - I have some other stuff to do right now. But I promise I will do it.

[Sikeliot]

I'll do this in 2 hours - I have some other stuff to do right now. But I promise I will do it.

I will be interested to see how they turn out.

[Bobby Martnen]

I will be interested to see how they turn out.

Me, too. Sorry that I haven't done it yet, something unexpected came up at school.

[Sikeliot]

Me, too. Sorry that I haven't done it yet, something unexpected came up at school.

No worries.

My guess is that the Trapanese will be just southwest of the Sicilian cluster while the Syracusans will be between Sicily/south italy and Central Greece. I expect the Syracusans to be the northward plotting of the two.

[Bobby Martnen]

No worries.

My guess is that the Trapanese will be just southwest of the Sicilian cluster while the Syracusans will be between Sicily/south italy and Central Greece. I expect the Syracusans to be the northward plotting of the two.

Why would Trapanese be southern shifted at all? Aren't they more Northern?

[Sikeliot]

Why would Trapanese be southern shifted at all? Aren't they more Northern?

I would need to see them plotted but my guess is while Trapani would be north shifted compared to say, Palermo or Messina, I think that southeast Sicily is north of Trapani because of their mainland Greek ancestry and lack of historical MENA input. Trapani should have had significant MENA input but this was partly overridden by Norman and Italian settlement, but Syracuse never had MENA settlement at all.

But let's see what happens when plotted. :)

[Bobby Martnen]

But let's see what happens when plotted. :)

https://i.imgur.com/qd8fVmK.png

[Sikeliot]

https://i.imgur.com/qd8fVmK.png

The Trapanese seem slightly south of the Syracusans but not much.

Incredible.
They all seem to be north of the Sicily average.

That means that Sicily average is basically a mixture of more heavily MENA shifted Catanese, Messinese, Palermitans, etc. and more "north" shifted Trapanese and southeast Sicilians.

[Sikeliot]

https://i.imgur.com/qd8fVmK.png

Try these three (and colorcode green)? They are from Agrigento. We already know Palermitans plot much south of Trapanese, so let's see if Agrigento does too. Both areas border Trapani.

#1:

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 29.84
2 West_Med 18.92
3 West_Asian 15.03
4 Atlantic 12.23
5 North_Sea 8.88
6 Red_Sea 6.04
7 Baltic 4.95
8 Eastern_Euro 1.66
9 Sub-Saharan 1.23
10 Siberian 0.98
11 Oceanian 0.13
12 South_Asian 0.08
13 Northeast_African 0.04


#2:

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 32.69
2 West_Med 18.92
3 West_Asian 12.15
4 Atlantic 12.07
5 North_Sea 9.78
6 Red_Sea 3.58
7 Eastern_Euro 3.57
8 Baltic 2.73
9 South_Asian 1.93
10 Sub-Saharan 1.54
11 Oceanian 0.78
12 Siberian 0.25


#3:
# Population Percent
1 East_Med 30.31
2 West_Med 16.7
3 West_Asian 14.69
4 Atlantic 11.96
5 North_Sea 10.03
6 Red_Sea 6.9
7 Eastern_Euro 3.78
8 Northeast_African 2.05
9 Baltic 1.59
10 Sub-Saharan 1.01
11 Amerindian 0.57
12 Oceanian 0.41


#4:
# Population Percent
1 East_Med 31.13
2 West_Med 16.55
3 West_Asian 14.07
4 Atlantic 11.8
5 North_Sea 9.68
6 Red_Sea 6.69
7 Eastern_Euro 3.75
8 Baltic 3.06
9 Northeast_African 1.76
10 Sub-Saharan 1.49
11 Oceanian 0.03


#5:
# Population Percent
1 East_Med 31.19
2 West_Med 15.97
3 North_Sea 15.77
4 West_Asian 13.71
5 Atlantic 12.46
6 Red_Sea 5.62
7 Northeast_African 1.39
8 Sub-Saharan 1.07
9 Amerindian 1.02
10 Eastern_Euro 0.88
11 Baltic 0.77
12 Siberian 0.16

[Bobby Martnen]

Try these three (and colorcode green)? They are from Agrigento. We already know Palermitans plot much south of Trapanese, so let's see if Agrigento does too. Both areas border Trapani.

#1:

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 29.84
2 West_Med 18.92
3 West_Asian 15.03
4 Atlantic 12.23
5 North_Sea 8.88
6 Red_Sea 6.04
7 Baltic 4.95
8 Eastern_Euro 1.66
9 Sub-Saharan 1.23
10 Siberian 0.98
11 Oceanian 0.13
12 South_Asian 0.08
13 Northeast_African 0.04


#2:

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 32.69
2 West_Med 18.92
3 West_Asian 12.15
4 Atlantic 12.07
5 North_Sea 9.78
6 Red_Sea 3.58
7 Eastern_Euro 3.57
8 Baltic 2.73
9 South_Asian 1.93
10 Sub-Saharan 1.54
11 Oceanian 0.78
12 Siberian 0.25


#3:
# Population Percent
1 East_Med 30.31
2 West_Med 16.7
3 West_Asian 14.69
4 Atlantic 11.96
5 North_Sea 10.03
6 Red_Sea 6.9
7 Eastern_Euro 3.78
8 Northeast_African 2.05
9 Baltic 1.59
10 Sub-Saharan 1.01
11 Amerindian 0.57
12 Oceanian 0.41


#4:
# Population Percent
1 East_Med 31.13
2 West_Med 16.55
3 West_Asian 14.07
4 Atlantic 11.8
5 North_Sea 9.68
6 Red_Sea 6.69
7 Eastern_Euro 3.75
8 Baltic 3.06
9 Northeast_African 1.76
10 Sub-Saharan 1.49
11 Oceanian 0.03


#5:
# Population Percent
1 East_Med 31.19
2 West_Med 15.97
3 North_Sea 15.77
4 West_Asian 13.71
5 Atlantic 12.46
6 Red_Sea 5.62
7 Northeast_African 1.39
8 Sub-Saharan 1.07
9 Amerindian 1.02
10 Eastern_Euro 0.88
11 Baltic 0.77
12 Siberian 0.16

I will in an hour. (I have a party in my dorm in a few minutes)

After that, I'm going to try and get very drunk.

[Sikeliot]

I will in an hour. (I have a party in my dorm in a few minutes)

After that, I'm going to try and get very drunk.


Ok cool :)

Agrigento results might be closer to the Italian Jews.

Btw, in addition to Norman, Trapani did have a Greek-speaking community late into the Norman rule and early Middle Ages, so they could also shift upward due to recent Greek input.

[Bobby Martnen]

Ok cool :)

Agrigento results might be closer to the Italian Jews.

Btw, in addition to Norman, Trapani did have a Greek-speaking community late into the Norman rule and early Middle Ages, so they could also shift upward due to recent Greek input.

Jon Bon Jovi's ancestors were from Agrigento.

https://i.imgur.com/T6iyAM2.png

[Sikeliot]

Jon Bon Jovi's ancestors were from Agrigento.

https://i.imgur.com/T6iyAM2.png


Agrigento seems similar to Palermo.

Ok, one more set and then I am done!! Three from Caltanissetta.

#1:
# Population Percent
1 East_Med 30.24
2 West_Med 19.25
3 West_Asian 14.06
4 Atlantic 11.74
5 North_Sea 11.03
6 Red_Sea 6.36
7 Baltic 4.79
8 Sub-Saharan 1.01
9 Southeast_Asian 0.63
10 Northeast_African 0.57
11 Oceanian 0.22
12 Amerindian 0.09
13 Siberian 0.01



#2:
# Population Percent
1 East_Med 26.07
2 West_Med 20.59
3 Atlantic 12.15
4 North_Sea 11.87
5 West_Asian 11.5
6 Red_Sea 7.81
7 Baltic 4.56
8 Eastern_Euro 2.82
9 Oceanian 1.28
10 Sub-Saharan 0.59
11 South_Asian 0.34
12 Siberian 0.25
13 Northeast_African 0.14
14 Southeast_Asian 0.05


#3:
# Population Percent
1 East_Med 27.07
2 West_Med 18.08
3 West_Asian 14.92
4 Atlantic 13.54
5 North_Sea 11.05
6 Red_Sea 7.64
7 Baltic 4.3
8 Northeast_African 2.82
9 Siberian 0.24
10 Oceanian 0.22
11 Southeast_Asian 0.11

[Bobby Martnen]

Agrigento seems similar to Palermo.

Ok, one more set and then I am done!! Three from Caltanissetta.


What color do you want them in?

[Sikeliot]

What color do you want them in?

Purple.

[Bobby Martnen]

Purple.

https://i.imgur.com/gYxcB9D.png

[Sikeliot]

https://i.imgur.com/gYxcB9D.png

I have more i'd send but I don't want to be a burden and make you keep doing this :lol: Unless you enjoy it.

[Bobby Martnen]

I have more i'd send but I don't want to be a burden and make you keep doing this :lol: Unless you enjoy it.

I can do more later, but this plot is getting pretty crowded, so I'd want to do it on another plot.

Also, I have some homework tonight. I'd be happy to do more next weekend :)

[Sikeliot]

I can do more later, but this plot is getting pretty crowded, so I'd want to do it on another plot.

Also, I have some homework tonight. I'd be happy to do more next weekend :)

I have just FOUR more, and then I am good for the week lol. Put Enna in orange, Palermo in pink on another plot and then I won't ask any more until next weekend.

Palermo:
# Population Percent
1 East_Med 29
2 West_Med 19.35
3 West_Asian 14.74
4 North_Sea 13.04
5 Atlantic 10.79
6 Red_Sea 7.52
7 Baltic 2.97
8 Northeast_African 1.89
9 Sub-Saharan 0.59
10 Oceanian 0.12


Palermo:
# Population Percent
1 East_Med 26.85
2 West_Med 21.13
3 West_Asian 17.23
4 Atlantic 13.76
5 North_Sea 6.24
6 Baltic 4.92
7 Red_Sea 4.61
8 Eastern_Euro 3.1
9 Oceanian 0.71
10 Northeast_African 0.55
11 Amerindian 0.45
12 Sub-Saharan 0.44


Enna:
# Population Percent
1 East_Med 27.11
2 Atlantic 17.58
3 West_Asian 16.91
4 West_Med 16.22
5 Baltic 6.9
6 Red_Sea 6.19
7 North_Sea 4.95
8 Northeast_African 2.26
9 Southeast_Asian 0.77
10 Sub-Saharan 0.55
11 Oceanian 0.46
12 Siberian 0.1


Enna:
# Population Percent
1 East_Med 29.63
2 Atlantic 17.37
3 West_Med 15.82
4 West_Asian 13.07
5 North_Sea 9.51
6 Red_Sea 6.02
7 Baltic 4.85
8 Eastern_Euro 2.1
9 Northeast_African 1.64

[Bobby Martnen]

I have just FOUR more, and then I am good for the week lol. Put Enna in orange, Palermo in pink on another plot and then I won't ask any more until next weekend.


https://i.imgur.com/qX79Gbk.png

[Sikeliot]

https://i.imgur.com/qX79Gbk.png


Interesting. Enna might have more potential for some outlying (MENA shifted) people than Caltanissetta.

[Bobby Martnen]

Interesting. Enna might have more potential for some outlying (MENA shifted) people than Caltanissetta.

I'd love to test my grandmother or one of her siblings to see if my Palermitans were more Euro or MENA shifted.

[Sikeliot]

I'd love to test my grandmother or one of her siblings to see if my Palermitans were more Euro or MENA shifted.

Which towns did they descend from?

[Bobby Martnen]

Which towns did they descend from?

From most to least: Monreale, Palermo City, Polizzi Generosa, Carini, Bisacquino, Piana degli Albanese (aka Piana dei Greci)

There may be more in the very distant past

[Sikeliot]

From most to least: Monreale, Palermo City, Polizzi Generosa, Carini, Bisacquino, Piana degli Albanese (aka Piana dei Greci)

There may be more in the very distant past

I have ancestry from Carini. The relatives I have who are purely from there score more MENA shifted, as do the results I've seen from Polizzi Generosa and Palermo itself.

Monreale should not be any different. I have never seen a result from Bisacquino, but the other town you mentioned is Arbereshe.

[Bobby Martnen]

I have ancestry from Carini. The relatives I have who are purely from there score more MENA shifted, as do the results I've seen from Polizzi Generosa and Palermo itself.

Monreale should not be any different. I have never seen a result from Bisacquino, but the other town you mentioned is Arbereshe.

I think they were Euro-shifted, for 2 reasons
1. My great-grandfather had light skin and green eyes
2. My mom plots NW of my grandfather, which means my grandmother plots even farther NW of him, and she is 1/2 Sicilian and 1/2 Czechoslovak.

[Sikeliot]

I think they were Euro-shifted, for 2 reasons
1. My great-grandfather had light skin and green eyes
2. My mom plots NW of my grandfather, which means my grandmother plots even farther NW of him, and she is 1/2 Sicilian and 1/2 Czechoslovak.


I'll dispel that with 2 points:

1. You score more Levantine than you should for your amount of Sicilian ancestry,
2. One of the most outlying results is the woman I posted the other day who looks Irish and is from Messina.

[Bobby Martnen]

I'll dispel that with 2 points:

1. You score more Levantine than you should for your amount of Sicilian ancestry,
2. One of the most outlying results is the woman I posted the other day who looks Irish and is from Messina.

But I also have a Yugoslav grandparent who score 12% West Asian on AncestryDNA.

But the main reason is because my mom plots NW of my grandfather, who is Yugoslav.

[Sikeliot]

But I also have a Yugoslav grandparent who score 12% West Asian on AncestryDNA.

But the main reason is because my mom plots NW of my grandfather, who is Yugoslav.

The Yugoslav grandparent should not be enough to make you more Levantine than the average.

[Bobby Martnen]

The Yugoslav grandparent should not be enough to make you more Levantine than the average.

I can make a thread with my mom's GEDmatch results. I also thought it was odd that she plotted NW of her father.

[Sikeliot]

I can make a thread with my mom's GEDmatch results. I also thought it was odd that she plotted NW of her father.


post yours and hers, and tell me how much Sicilian each one is and I should be able to determine that ancestor's ratio of European to MENA.

[MercifulServant]

But I also have a Yugoslav grandparent who score 12% West Asian on AncestryDNA.


How much europe east does he score?

[Bobby Martnen]

How much europe east does he score?

57%