How would Europe be different if R1 had assimilated to I1 culture?

[Bobby Martnen]

Like if instead of forcing us to speak their goofy languages, if instead they had adopted our pre-IE languages, and our culture.

What do you think Europe and the world would be like today???

[Wrong]

We'd still be living in the Stone Age struggling to make fires.

http://economicsdetective.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/age_of_empires-1024x576.jpg

[Bobby Martnen]

We'd still be living in the Stone Age struggling to make fires.

http://economicsdetective.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/age_of_empires-1024x576.jpg

You are J2 - why do you hate I1 and defend R1 - you are more closely related to I than to R???????

[Wrong]

You are J2 - why do you hate I1 and defend R1 - you are more closely related to I than to R???????
R1 were simply superior to the others.

[Wrong]

I technology

http://media.moddb.com/images/games/1/13/12154/screen09.jpg

[Bobby Martnen]

R1 were simply superior to the others.

R1 looked like Kazakhs before they raped the daughters of I1. I1 is where European phenotypes come from.

[Wrong]

R1 looked like Kazakhs before they raped the daughters of I1. I1 is where European phenotypes come from.
Grab the Gauge states that you're wrong.

[Bobby Martnen]

Grab the Gauge states that you're wrong.

Grab the Gauge, as entertaining and clever as he was, was a troll.

A hilarious, charming troll, but a troll nonetheless.

I miss him, though.

[Token]

There would be no 'Europe' today, just an Asian peninsula inhabited by a bunch of very distinct populations speaking ugly, guttural languages.

[Bobby Martnen]

There would be no 'Europe' today, it would be just an Asian peninsula inhabited by a bunch of very distinct populations speaking ugly guttural languages.

I1 languages were beautiful and complex. It's the IE languages that are ugly and guttural, they only became dominant because they were simple and not very complex, which meant they were easy to learn, so they became a lingua franca and eventually displaced real European languages.

[Token]

I1 languages were beautiful and complex. It's the IE languages that are ugly and guttural, they only became dominant because they were simple and not very complex, which meant they were easy to learn, so they became a lingua franca and eventually displaced real European languages.

Nope, IE became dominant because old European women preferred macho patriarchal men over submissive neotenic farmers, not surprising.

[Bobby Martnen]

Nope, IE became dominant because old European women preferred macho patriarchal men over submissive neotenic farmers, not surprising.

Nope. R1 were from Kazakhstan and that area - they actually have smaller cocks there on average than NW European men.

[Rethel]

What do you think Europe and the world would be like today???

We would prevail even with different language, as we did in
Egypt, Mesopotamia, Turkey, and probably even in imperial
Mongolia and China once.

Better question would be, how would look Europe if IEs would
not spread and remained as a small folk somewhere between
Ural and Caucasus? What would be Europe now?

I see two scenarios:
Either it would remain totaly I-ish, either
would be taken by Middle Easteners, or both...

https://news-cdn.softpedia.com/images/news2/Who-Are-the-Australian-Aborigines-2.jpg
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/10/01/19/44EB52D400000578-0-Shiite_Muslims_take_part_in_the_religious_festival _Ashura_holdin-a-85_1506882496280.jpg

[Rethel]

they only became dominant because they were simple and not very complex, which meant they were easy to learn, so they became a lingua franca and eventually displaced real European languages.

Said it only modern american english speaker... :picard2:

[Bobby Martnen]

We would prevail even with different language, as we did in
Egypt, Mesopotamia, Turkey, and probably even in imperial
Mongolia and China once.

Better question would be, how would look Europe if IEs would
not spread and remained as a small folk somewhere between
Ural and Caucasus? What would be Europe now?

I see two scenarios:
Either it would remain totaly I-ish, either
would be taken by Middle Easteners, or both...

https://news-cdn.softpedia.com/images/news2/Who-Are-the-Australian-Aborigines-2.jpg
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/10/01/19/44EB52D400000578-0-Shiite_Muslims_take_part_in_the_religious_festival _Ashura_holdin-a-85_1506882496280.jpg

The original I1 men didn't look like that.

[Bobby Martnen]

Said it only modern american english speaker... :picard2:

I wish I still spoke the I1 languages instead of R1 IE nonsense languages, but alas, your ancestors forced mine to adopt your languages. :picard2:

[Rethel]

I1 is where European phenotypes come from.

https://qz.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/xcheddar_man_for_web-pagespeed-ic-1mwojrtngm-2.jpg?quality=80&strip=all&w=1000

[Rethel]

I wish I still spoke the I1 languages instead of R1 IE nonsense languages, but alas, your ancestors forced mine to adopt your languages. :picard2:

You can yet repair this... it is enaugh to only want and...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXsQAXx_ao0

[Rethel]

The original I1 men didn't look like that.

As in the first photo - yes, they did, similarly.
On the second are Farmerians and/or later probable Saracen invaders.

[Bobby Martnen]

https://qz.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/xcheddar_man_for_web-pagespeed-ic-1mwojrtngm-2.jpg?quality=80&strip=all&w=1000

What is that?

[Wrong]

What is that?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ee925OTFBCA

[Gwydion]

The find of Caucasoid Tocharian (Chinese called them Yuezhi, among others) mummies with blonde/red hair, fair skin, and blue eyes in what is now Western China show that the Indo-Europeans were Nordish prior to admixture with other Europeans. Survivals of this type among the Pamiris, Pashtuns, Nuristanis, etc. or the existence of Nordish Kurds, Iranians, etc. also proves this.

From what I understand the pre-IE cultures of Europe were matriarchal and thus pretty fruity compared to the patriarchal heroic warrior ethos of the Aryans.

[Rethel]

What is that?

It is a recently reconstructed WHGean, called a Cheddar
Man, who butthurted every I1 nazi in the internet. :)

[Sikeliot]

I have no idea honestly. But I know I is the sister subclade to J. So I1 people are closer to Arabs than R1 people are. :)

[Rethel]

R1 were simply superior to the others.

Interesting fact is, that the originals were even healthier than others.

[Wrong]

Interesting fact is, that the originals were even healthier than others.
More varied diet and more on the move.

[Bobby Martnen]

I have no idea honestly. But I know I is the sister subclade to J. So I1 people are closer to Arabs than R1 people are. :)

R1 people are closer to Indians and Central Asians than I1 are :)

I know at least some Arabs are haplogroup A, as well.

[Bobby Martnen]

It is a recently reconstructed WHGean, called a Cheddar
Man, who butthurted every I1 nazi in the internet. :)

Do you have any evidence he was I1? :picard2:

[Rethel]

More varied diet and more on the move.

Maybe, but the research claimed better genetic health.

[Peterski]

What do you think Europe and the world would be like today???

Basically Europe would be a Feminist Civilization today:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8IZ6t40Lf0

[Rethel]

Do you have any evidence he was I1? :picard2:

I-men were WHGeans.
So no matter, who that particular guy
was, he represents the race of WHG.
So, logically, if I-men were racially
WHG, then they had to look like that.

[Wrong]

Maybe, but the research claimed better genetic health.
Bigger mtDNA pool of offsprings. More stationary tribes did not have this, pure logic.

[Dibran]

I technology

http://media.moddb.com/images/games/1/13/12154/screen09.jpg

Lmfao. I love that game. They're doing an HD re-release right?

[Wrong]

Lmfao. I love that game. They're doing an HD re-release right?
Yeah it's finished, 4k even.

[Dibran]

R1 looked like Kazakhs before they raped the daughters of I1. I1 is where European phenotypes come from.

Your ancestors were swarthy though. All I1/I2 remains looked like morrocans practically. Only, with blue eyes. The genes for light skin developed only 7-9k years ago anyways. Also J2 was part of elite indo-european movements. Indo-Europeans were predominantly R1, but not entirely. Even E-V13 was among them(bronze age dominance).

[Dibran]

Yeah it's finished, 4k even.

Fuck. I need to buy it.

[Bobby Martnen]

Your ancestors were swarthy though. All I1/I2 remains looked like morrocans practically. Only, with blue eyes. The genes for light skin developed only 7-9k years ago anyways. Also J2 was part of elite indo-european movements. Indo-Europeans were predominantly R1, but not entirely. Even E-V13 was among them(bronze age dominance).

Well, my ancestors are the ones who invented European culture.

[Wrong]

Well, my ancestors are the ones who invented European culture.
WHG genes were heavily diluted by Farmers and later Indo-Europeans. Those autosomal genes barely exist anymore.

[Bobby Martnen]

WHG genes were heavily diluted by Farmers and later Indo-Europeans. Those autosomal genes barely exist anymore.

Yet, I still have the I1, so R1 lost. They tried to exterminate us, because their hearts were full of hatred and bigotry, but they failed. We still exist.

[Dibran]

Well, my ancestors are the ones who invented European culture.

Actually no. It was R1/J2/V13 that invented European culture. Before they showed up, there was no culture to be heard of. Just a bunch of retards throwing stones at each-other. Any wonder why theres still a bit of J2 and V13 everywhere indo-europeans moved?

[Wrong]

Yet, I still have the I1, so R1 lost. They tried to exterminate us, because their hearts were full of hatred and bigotry, but they failed. We still exist.
Everything in the Europe is Farmer and then Indo-European. You guys got crushed and assimilated by invading Farmers before the Indo-Europeans, remember that.

[Bobby Martnen]

Basically Europe would be a Feminist Civilization today:


Yuck, I hate feminists.

[Bobby Martnen]

Everything in the Europe is Farmer and then Indo-European.

Wrong. I1 still exists, and we will breed the daughters of R1, and restore our dominance.

[MercifulServant]

It would be bad. But neolithic people that spoke R1 languages created modern civilization

[Dibran]

Yuck, I hate feminists.

You did have Matriarchs before we showed up, so, he has a point.

[Wrong]

I1 after assimilation by Farmers

https://i.imgur.com/PWm0TVC.jpg

[Dibran]

Wrong. I1 still exists, and we will breed the daughters of R1, and restore our dominance.

With neolithic and indo-european genes....so hes actually not wrong.

[Rethel]

J2/V13

If someone did influenced us, it were mainly cultures created by J1 and E-M123.

[Peterski]

You did have Matriarchs before we showed up, so, he has a point.

http://themotherhouseofthegoddess.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Quote-Marija-Gimbutas.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7d/Ankara_Muzeum_B19-36.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/b9/82/f5/b982f55d7ceb2517623bf339a33a8fed--deities-syria.jpg

https://iadsb.tmgrup.com.tr/f0951a/0/0/0/0/642/970?u=http://i.tmgrup.com.tr/dailysabah/2016/09/13/1473773335840.jpeg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPcod8IS214

[Bobby Martnen]

Actually no. It was R1/J2/V13 that invented European culture. Before they showed up, there was no culture to be heard of. Just a bunch of retards throwing stones at each-other. Any wonder why theres still a bit of J2 and V13 everywhere indo-europeans moved?

Do you have any proof for this????????

:picard2:

[Wrong]

Actually no. It was R1/J2/V13 that invented European culture. Before they showed up, there was no culture to be heard of. Just a bunch of retards throwing stones at each-other. Any wonder why theres still a bit of J2 and V13 everywhere indo-europeans moved?
Correctomundo.

https://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/late_neolithic_europe.gif

[Rethel]

Your ancestors were swarthy though. All I1/I2 remains looked like morrocans practically. Only, with blue eyes. The genes for light skin developed only 7-9k years ago anyways. Also J2 was part of elite indo-european movements. Indo-Europeans were predominantly R1, but not entirely. Even E-V13 was among them(bronze age dominance).

From that point of view, especially in the Bronze Age - a dozens of folks could
be claimed IE. It is sensless. They had their own homes - no need to add them.

People always wandered, always were solded, and always were migriting from many
different reasons. Even in very proto-IE times, there could be some foreigners bought
as slaves. It does not make them IE in the context which we are talking about, even
if they were in Samara and invaded later this what we called now Greece or whatever.

[Bobby Martnen]

Everything in the Europe is Farmer and then Indo-European. You guys got crushed and assimilated by invading Farmers before the Indo-Europeans, remember that.

This is not true.

[MercifulServant]

Conclusion: Neolithic people and Indo European people created civilization and I people were primitive cavemen.

[Bobby Martnen]

With neolithic and indo-european genes....so hes actually not wrong.

Wrong. My maternal grandfather isn't R1 either, nor is my mom's maternal grandfather.

I have no clue what my dad's maternal grandfather's haplogroup was. He was Western Irish.

[Rethel]

They tried to exterminate us,

If we would want to exterminate you, you wouldn;t exist.
The same fairy tales are spoken about AmerIndians and Aboriginals.
Yet, they exists, and we even founded schools for them almost since the beginning.
The same way we did preserve your language for you sacrificing our men, becasue you didn;t want to speak them.

Yet you still have some issues...

[Dibran]

If someone did influenced us, it were mainly cultures created by J1 and E-M123.

We're talking about who moved with Indo-Europeans. Alot of Bronze age Elite were J2 and V13. It is everywhere Indo-Europeans went. They played a major role. After all indo-europeans were a culture and not a lineage(despite R1 being dominant among them).

[Wrong]

We're talking about who moved with Indo-Europeans. Alot of Bronze age Elite were J2 and V13. It is everywhere Indo-Europeans went. They played a major role. After all indo-europeans were a culture and not a lineage(despite R1 being dominant among them).
Exactly. Don't expect this to get into his head though.

He thinks some diluted R1b Bolivian is more IE by all accounts than an Euro EV13/J2/I1 person who are more autosomally influenced by Indo-Europeans.

[Dibran]

Do you have any proof for this????????

:picard2:

Science and Archaeology? I can't make you see and accept that though. Truth is we don;t know much about I1-I2 prior to indo-european arrival(other than whats been outlined). All the evidence is there though showing Indo-Europeans molded the cultures and civilizations of the Bronze and Iron Ages up to the present.

[Bobby Martnen]

If we would want to exterminate you, you wouldn;t exist.
The same fairy tales are spoken about AmerIndians and Aboriginals.
Yet, they exists, and we even founded schools for them almost since the beginning.
The same way we did preserve your language for you sacrificing our men, becasue you didn;t want to speak them.

Yet you still have some issues...

You didn't preserve our language...you wiped them out and forced us to speak IE monkey languages.

[Token]

Yet, I still have the I1, so R1 lost. They tried to exterminate us, because their hearts were full of hatred and bigotry, but they failed. We still exist.

Yes, I1 people still exists, half IE autossomally but still alive. :laugh:

[Dibran]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPcod8IS214

Lmao. I didn't expect the Jabba.

[Dibran]

You didn't preserve our language...you wiped them out and forced us to speak IE monkey languages.

Actually every Indo-European language has a Pre-Indo-European Substrate.

[Dibran]

Yes, I1 people still exists, half IE autossomally but still alive. :laugh:

I1/I2 is linked to WHG. No one has 50 percent of WHG. So, no, you're merely alive via paternal descent. Most of your autosomal structure was replaced by Indo-Europeans and Neolithic Farmers.

[Rethel]

You didn't preserve our language...you wiped them out and forced us to speak IE monkey languages.

How not?
And what is basque language with 90% of R1-men speaking him for you? :picard2:

But you are too lazy for even know it... :picard1:

[Token]

I1/I2 is linked to WHG. No one has 50 percent of WHG. So, no, you're merely alive via paternal descent. Most of your autosomal structure was replaced by Indo-Europeans and Neolithic Farmers.

You misunderstood my phrase, read it again.

[Rethel]

Actually every Indo-European language has a Pre-Indo-European Substrate.

Maybe, but slavic has the less if any.

[Dibran]

Maybe, but slavic has the less if any.

I guess that makes sense since they have the highest R1 in Eastern Europe. Being close to the Indo-European Urheimat.

[Bobby Martnen]

I1/I2 is linked to WHG. No one has 50 percent of WHG. So, no, you're merely alive via paternal descent. Most of your autosomal structure was replaced by Indo-Europeans and Neolithic Farmers.

Paternal descent is the most important.

[Bobby Martnen]

How not?
And what is basque language with 90% of R1-men speaking him for you? :picard2:

But you are too lazy for even know it... :picard1:

?

[TEUTORIGOS]

Yet, I still have the I1, so R1 lost. They tried to exterminate us, because their hearts were full of hatred and bigotry, but they failed. We still exist.

Talking more nonsense as usual. How did we lose ? You are just an insignificant speck of dust in an infinitely large universe.

https://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup_R1b-borders.png

That is not to mention R1a and Western Europe is has a higher standard of living.

[Bobby Martnen]

Talking more nonsense as usual. How did we lose ? You are just an insignificant speck of dust in an infinitely large universe.

https://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup_R1b-borders.png

That is not to mention www and Western Europe is has a higher standard of living.

Go away.

[ovidiu]

We'd still be living in the Stone Age struggling to make fires.

http://economicsdetective.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/age_of_empires-1024x576.jpg

Haha, I remember Age of Empires, that was good shit. Especially 2.

All jokes aside, some of the original "Old European" cultures were not completely primitive from what I understand, although we tend to paint them as less warlike and therefore less successful in keeping their language/culture. Tripolyte Cucuteni was decently advanced, and so were some of the Mediterranean farmers and the Megalithic cultures of Western Europe I think.

Outside of Europe, the Harappan/Mohenjo Daro civ was rather advanced and collapsed internally by the time the IEs got there. I think the processes of Indo Europeanization were gradual and not always violent.

[Dibran]

Talking more nonsense as usual. How did we lose ? You are just an insignificant speck of dust in an infinitely large universe.

https://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup_R1b-borders.png

That is not to mention R1a and Western Europe is has a higher standard of living.

Actually(unless I am mistaken) Northern Europe has a higher standard of living. Supposedly Scandinavian countries rank in the top 3 or top 5 in most categories. That hardly has anything to do with Haplogroups and more to do with societal structure.

[Dibran]

Haha, I remember Age of Empires, that was good shit. Especially 2.

All jokes aside, some of the original "Old European" cultures were not completely primitive from what I understand, although we tend to paint them as less warlike and therefore less successful in keeping their language/culture. Tripolyte Cucuteni was decently advanced, and so were some of the Mediterranean farmers and the Megalithic cultures of Western Europe I think.

Outside of Europe, the Harappan/Mohenjo Daro civ was rather advanced and collapsed internally by the time the IEs got there. I think the processes of Indo Europeanization were gradual and not always violent.

I think I am going to get it for Xbox One. I know its best on PC but idk. lol.

[Bobby Martnen]

Maybe, but slavic has the less if any.

That's a shame.

[Finnish Swede]

Actually(unless I am mistaken) Northern Europe has a higher standard of living. Supposedly Scandinavian countries rank in the top 3 or top 5 in most categories. That hardly has anything to do with Haplogroups and more to do with societal structure.

Nope, it has nothing to do haplogroups (I1 or R1), but all with Scandinavians genes overall :thumb001:

[Dibran]

Nope, it has nothing to do haplogroups (I1 or R1), but all with Scandinavians genes overall :thumb001:

I wouldn't see how it has anything to do with genes. In some way we can argue that genes may have a predisposition. However, mind over matter as they say. We can consciously rewire ourselves(not overnight of course).

Some people who have the best education, financial status are not good people, nor are they happy. It depends on numerous factors. Most of which has nothing to do with genetics and everything to do with not only geographic positions, but society, education, political stability etc. Scandinavia has been the least warlike out of most nations, and for a majority of recent history too. Which I think is a big contributing factor to their development.

Take the Balkans which has been in constant wars, with little stability and progress as a result.

Even Carl Sagan said the only way a civilization could reach warp drive type technological means is in a civilization that has had consistent bouts of peace over 1000 years if not Millennia. Civilizations constantly at war will eventually collapse, because resources are finite.

[Finnish Swede]

I wouldn't see how it has anything to do with genes.

That's just fine.

But I will ... plus culture of course (which has been created by people ... always ... everywhere).

[Wrong]

R1 were simply superior to the others.
With this, I mean the clades that conquered Europe. Not the mutated masses of R1etheloid shitlets.

[Ayman Vasconic]

There is no way to say. But it is probably impossible, as I1 people were allready assimilated by - as Wrong is calling them - Farmerians. But if Farmerian expantion wouldn't happen, and also not Indo-european, then it is probable, that europe would be black stone age people until someone else would arrived, for example Phoenicians or Arabs, so also middle easteners, but much later, or Mongolians and Ugro-Finians from the East. So without Indo-europeans europe would be splitted between Middle Eastern and north african swarthy people and Uralo-Altaic mongoloids from the north and east, maybe with some lucky blackish original I-people centers at the middle or on the outskirts of europe, like Scotland, Scandinavia or Alps.

[Mens-Sarda]

We would have seen the rise of different civilizations, probably based upon the Minoan style. And with a partially Matriarchal society, with priestesses with great decisional powers, while men thought to more practical things, like trade, work and war.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3Ez8drCIvc


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rV9BVTi8t9U


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7Hdh11YmeY


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IebDHwASW7c

[Fieraru]

The above is true. There were many non Indo European civilizations in the Mediterranean and other areas that flourished in their own times, and many were not destroyed by conquest but by natural causes.

Anyway, some of you guys are too fixated on these haplogroups. This stuff all happened in the ancient past and we can't tell how different things would be. Maybe Europeans would be less warlike

[DarkWater]

Like if instead of forcing us to speak their goofy languages, if instead they had adopted our pre-IE languages, and our culture.

What do you think Europe and the world would be like today???

You probably have more R1 ancestors than I ancestors. Haplogroups are just one small portions of your DNA. All Europeans are mixed from different groups of people with different haplogroups. No one is descended from just one haplogroup.

[Bobby Martnen]

You probably have more R1 ancestors than I ancestors. Haplogroups are just one small portions of your DNA. All Europeans are mixed from different groups of people with different haplogroups. No one is descended from just one haplogroup.

I don't have any R1 ancestors polluting my bloodline.

[Ayman Vasconic]

And with a partially Matriarchal society, with priestesses with great decisional powers,

It would be hell on earth. One thing, for which Old-European people should be thankfull for the Indoeuropean conquest is, that Indoeuropeans did free them from it.


You probably have more R1 ancestors than I ancestors. Haplogroups are just one small portions of your DNA. All Europeans are mixed from different groups of people with different haplogroups. No one is descended from just one haplogroup.

Why do you want make from I-people R1-people? It is just stupid, the same as R1-people would want to be I-people. And it is sad, that you do not respect your ancestors, neither you know, who are your ancestors. Communism did fall, and our culture does not recognize communal ancestry, neither such thing has any sense. It is just a level of kindergarten to explain such things to european person. I am just shocked that I met such person - idk, stupid, selfhating or wild?


I don't have any R1 ancestors

Agree.

[Wrong]

It would be hell on earth. One thing, for which Old-European people should be thankfull for the Indoeuropean conquest is, that Indoeuropeans did free them from it.



Why do you want make from I-people R1-people? It is just stupid, the same as R1-people would want to be I-people. And it is sad, that you do not respect your ancestors, neither you know, who are your ancestors. Communism did fall, and our culture does not recognize communal ancestry, neither such thing has any sense. It is just a level of kindergarten to explain such things to european person. I am just shocked that I met such person - idk, stupid, selfhating or wild?


I-people are very wild. Needed to be civilized strongly.

Bobby Martnen suffers from this wildness, that which he spams posts all day.

[Thanas Django]

This thread is now about T. What can you tell me about T?

[Bobby Martnen]

This thread is now about T. What can you tell me about T?

It's very geographically widespread and scarce.

[Ayman Vasconic]

This thread is now about T. What can you tell me about T?

Very widespread, very ambigous, definitly not white.

But I prefer to talk about "I" group.

[Dibran]

It would be hell on earth. One thing, for which Old-European people should be thankfull for the Indoeuropean conquest is, that Indoeuropeans did free them from it.



Why do you want make from I-people R1-people? It is just stupid, the same as R1-people would want to be I-people. And it is sad, that you do not respect your ancestors, neither you know, who are your ancestors. Communism did fall, and our culture does not recognize communal ancestry, neither such thing has any sense. It is just a level of kindergarten to explain such things to european person. I am just shocked that I met such person - idk, stupid, selfhating or wild?



Agree.

I am not sure you understand him. Your DNA is a mixture over generations from different converging lines. Despite you being I, most of your maternal line, and paternal mother line are all intersected with R1 people that contributed a large subset of your entire Genome of which your paternal line barely makes up 1 percent. Most people on here have an agenda and know dick about actual genetics. Truth is, an I person today has little to no DNA from the original source population his paternal line descends, but instead mostly from Indo Europeans(R1/J2) and European Farmers(G/E).

[Dibran]

I-people are very wild. Needed to be civilized strongly.

Bobby Martnen suffers from this wildness, that which he spams posts all day.

Its true. The highest I countries are constantly in states of war and unrest. With exception of some I scandinavian countries lol.

[Dibran]

This thread is now about T. What can you tell me about T?

I think one of the oldest Elites found from the Bronze Age was T. It is scarce today, but seems to be very old judging by how widespread it is.

https://eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_T_Y-DNA.shtml

[DarkWater]

I don't have any R1 ancestors polluting my bloodline.

It's ridiculous to think that you don't have any ancestors who carried an R1 haplogroup. It's statistically impossible

[Ayman Vasconic]

I am not sure you understand him. Your DNA is a mixture

I am not sure you understood me. I was not talking about autosomal DNA. I was talking about people, persons, not their substance. Their biological clothing is meaningless. What is important are ancestors, the ancestors, not some irrelevant people from foreign families, who were producers of ancestor's wives.

[Petalpusher]

It's ridiculous to think that you don't have any ancestors who carried an R1 haplogroup. It's statistically impossible

Likely even has more R1 than l1 ancestors statistically, considering all the women both in the paternal and maternal lines that had R1 fathers, parternal side might have continued to carry l1 marker even if they were mostly the results of R1 people. If you send a l1 to Africa and come back 1000 years later, there will be plenty of l1 descending from that original person, but they will be all Africans and 99,9% of their admixture will be from people that were not l1 on each side (if it even means something), yet half of his paternal tree will have the l1 marker, haplo can be deceiving and anecdotic like that.

[Kelmendasi]

This thread is now about T. What can you tell me about T?
It was spread into Europe during the Neolithic. It has been found in an LBK sample from Germany, an Neolithic sample from Jordan, Neolithic Bulgaria and the "Golden man" from the Varna necropolis of Chalcolithic Bulgaria was also T. In Europe it's mainly found in Greece iirc at 4%. Did you test with 23andme?

[Thanas Django]

It was spread into Europe during the Neolithic. It has been found in an LBK sample from Germany, an Neolithic sample from Jordan, Neolithic Bulgaria and the "Golden man" from the Varna necropolis of Chalcolithic Bulgaria was also T. In Europe it's mainly found in Greece iirc at 4%. Did you test with 23andme?

Yes, I tested with 23andme. I got T-M70.

Thanks for the info. I will look into the Golden man :p

[Ayman Vasconic]

yet half of his paternal tree will have the l1 marker,

Do you feel well, or you are on drugs?

[Petalpusher]

Do you feel well, or you are on drugs?

What's going on Rethel

[Dibran]

What's going on Rethel

Rethel is R1a-M458*. Unless it is Rethel trolling lol.

[Petalpusher]

Rethel is R1a-M458*. Unless it is Rethel trolling lol.

Yea but impersonating his avatar character he created, as in l people were black and stuff, winks winks damn what a comedian.

[Dibran]

Yea but impersonating his avatar character he created, as in l people were black and stuff, winks winks damn what a comedian.

Lol good point.

[Wrong]

Yea but impersonating his avatar character he created, as in l people were black and stuff, winks winks damn what a comedian.
He's funny nonetheless with that broken grammar.

[Kelmendasi]

Yes, I tested with 23andme. I got T-M70.

Thanks for the info. I will look into the Golden man :p
You can use this tool to find out your subclade https://ytree.morleydna.com/extractFromAutosomal. The Varna man was T-M184 or just T whilst you are T-M70 which is T1a, but still you share a common ancestor with this ancient guy who seems to have been part of the elite as his grave was full of gold. The LBK guy from Germany was also T1a and so was the Neolithic Bulgarian. This is the Golden man:

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ad/ed/93/aded93eca29813ca8abf985d76eab7d2.jpg

http://badamba.info/live/images/chalcolithic1.jpg

[Kelmendasi]

Do you feel well, or you are on drugs?
Man are you actually basal I, I highly doubt it..... I think you could be Rethel

[Dibran]

He's funny nonetheless with that broken grammar.

I cant believe I am related to him 3200 years ago. FML. lol

[Voskos]

Lol.R1b is a Kazakh haplogroup. Turkic 100%

[Ayman Vasconic]

What's going on

something has to be wrong with you, if you think, that one family tree, in addition paternal, as you specified, can have a half of different haplogroups. Normal paternal tree has only one haplogroup (the same as maternal family). Other way, there would be no tree, no family, no paternity. Only whoredom and whoresons - but there you can;t say, that it is paternal tree, as everybody has different father. If you are from such "family", please, don;t inpose your pathology on other normal people.


Rethel

This city: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rethel ??? What it has to do with this what I wrote?



He's funny nonetheless with that broken grammar.

Sorry, but english is not my native language.


Man are you actually basal I

Of course not, but I wrote whole group as a subject of my interest. Why should I write whole specific clade?


Rethel

Another one

[Dibran]

Lol.R1b is a Kazakh haplogroup. Turkic 100%

Turkic folk weren't there when R1b spread from that area. Much the same as Slavic Speakers were not in Greece prior to the great migration. Just because ancient remains were found there doesn't make the carriers Turkic. They came on the scene later. R1 itself before the split, may have been Altai/Siberian. No one knows exactly what language they spoke though. By the time R1a/R1b were spreading, they were likely speaking Proto-Indo-European. Some theories suggest that R1a may have been Ugric speaking and were later absorbed by Proto-Indo-Europeans. Regardless R1b didn't speak Turkic originally.

[Dibran]

Of course not, but I wrote whole group as a subject of my interest. Why should I write whole specific clade?



Because, I*(with the asterisk) indicates basal I. If you are not I*, you should put your actual clade. Despite you sharing common ancestors with I, you have no relation to them, considering your specific clade defines your actual recent ancestors. This is how migration is traced.

For instance I am L1029, not M458. M458 is the ancestor of my ancestor, but not my recent one. Also, no one is basal I today. That would make you beyond ancient. That's obviously not the case.

[Kelmendasi]

something has to be wrong with you, if you think, that one family tree, in addition paternal, as you specified, can have a half of different haplogroups. Normal paternal tree has only one haplogroup (the same as maternal family). Other way, there would be no tree, no family, no paternity. Only whoredom and whoresons - but there you can;t say, that it is paternal tree, as everybody has different father. If you are from such "family", please, don;t inpose your pathology on other normal people.



This city: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rethel ??? What it has to do with this what I wrote?




Sorry, but english is not my native language.



Of course not, but I wrote whole group as a subject of my interest. Why should I write whole specific clade?



Another one
And what clade of I are you then?

[Kelmendasi]

something has to be wrong with you, if you think, that one family tree, in addition paternal, as you specified, can have a half of different haplogroups. Normal paternal tree has only one haplogroup (the same as maternal family). Other way, there would be no tree, no family, no paternity. Only whoredom and whoresons - but there you can;t say, that it is paternal tree, as everybody has different father. If you are from such "family", please, don;t inpose your pathology on other normal people.



This city: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rethel ??? What it has to do with this what I wrote?




Sorry, but english is not my native language.



Of course not, but I wrote whole group as a subject of my interest. Why should I write whole specific clade?



Another one
Your family tree can have other haplogroups, for example your grandmothers paternal Ydna among other relatives

[Dick]

Likely even has more R1 than l1 ancestors statistically, considering all the women both in the paternal and maternal lines that had R1 fathers, parternal side might have continued to carry l1 marker even if they were mostly the results of R1 people.

Depends on the individual. Thankfully, 90%+ of my matches on 23ndme are I2 south Slavs which of course makes sense. Downloading the aggregate data will show all matches and their ydna and/or mtdna if only females.

[Petalpusher]

Depends on the individual. Thankfully, 90%+ of my matches on 23ndme are I2 south Slavs which of course makes sense. Downloading the aggregate data will show all matches and their ydna and/or mtdna if only females.

Well it makes sense because south Slavs are mostly I2, but you would have the same kind of list if you were E or R. Statistically people should have in their tree what their ethnic origins have in terms of haplo proportions, regardless of their own hg. The skewing effect just happens from their perspective every generations when the paternal line still get the same Y marker each time, even this side is also the result of another side that had fathers and grandfathers, this part is just hidden. For males, 3/4 of our males ancestors are hidden unless if we were able to test them, and even that 1/4 is arguably not what he looks to be anymore, it's likely long gone and reflects what an ethnic group is on the whole, no more no less.

Theorically, all my maternal grandfathers and all my paternal grandmother's fathers could be I or E, i wouldn't know a thing about it, but they were likely just the same proportions than what my group has on average (so mostly R), it wouldn't be any different if i was for example J.

So Bobby thinking he has no R1 in him, is not only funny but also statistically exactly the opposite, he was mostly the result of R males if he is what he claims to be, with possibly as low as only one l1 ancestor traversing the ages, surrounded by R males producing all his females ancestors and their fathers and even the fathers of his l1 paternal side's mothers.

[Dick]

Well it makes sense because south Slavs are mostly I2, but you would have the same kind of list if you were E or R.

Thankfully I'm I1 and not E or R or J or O.

[Bobby Martnen]

It's ridiculous to think that you don't have any ancestors who carried an R1 haplogroup. It's statistically impossible

Not necessarily. It just means my ancestors mostly bred with their own kind.

[Ayman Vasconic]

And what clade of I are you then?

I do not want to be a part of stupid wars between I1 and I2 about who is better Indo-European. If the problem is in * then I change it to "" becasue I alone looks notunderstandable, especially in english where exists such word.


Your family tree can have other haplogroups,

No, can't. Look at any family tree, and you will see it has only one progenitor, one family, so obviously has to have one haplogroup.


for example your grandmothers paternal Ydna among other relatives

My grandmother paternal family is a separate family, and has it's own tree.

Don't confuse relations of EGO with family tree. EGO has relations with couple of distinct families, as his relations are his own, and are changing with the EGO. But families, and families trees are not dependent of EGO, but on progentor and agnatic group. Cognates are not members of the same family tree, even if are related to each other. This is a basic item of genealogy, heraldic, history culture aso - I can't even imagine, how possibly cannot you know it. Especially if you claim to be Albanian. Or maybe you are not?

[Kelmendasi]

I do not want to be a part of stupid wars between I1 and I2 about who is better Indo-European. If the problem is in * then I change it to "" becasue I alone looks notunderstandable, especially in english where exists such word.



No, can't. Look at any family tree, and you will see it has only one progenitor, one family, so obviously has to have one haplogroup.



My grandmother paternal family is a separate family, and has it's own tree.

Don't confuse relations of EGO with family tree. EGO has relations with couple of distinct families, as his relations are his own, and are changing with the EGO. But families, and families trees are not dependent of EGO, but on progentor and agnatic group. Cognates are not members of the same family tree, even if are related to each other. This is a basic item of genealogy, heraldic, history culture aso - I can't even imagine, how possibly cannot you know it. Especially if you claim to be Albanian. Or maybe you are not?
You aren't I are you? How you been Rethel? Nigga i'm more Albanian than you are Polish

[Ayman Vasconic]

You aren't I are you? How you been Rethel?

Stop that Rethel thing, it is boring, really.


Nigga i'm more Albanian than you are Polish

And what? If you are, so be a normal Albanian, and stop claiming, that one family can be a product of whoredom, or that one progenitor can have different haplotypes. It is just stupid.

[Kelmendasi]

Stop that Rethel thing, it is boring, really.



And what? If you are, so be a normal Albanian, and stop claiming, that one family can be a product of whoredom, or that one progenitor can have different haplotypes. It is just stupid.
And what is your I-M170 subclade and what is your skin tone then as you really like to play the "I-M170, black of the north" thing? Nobody said that one progenitor can have more than 1 haplotype, read what I said properly before commenting.

[Marmara]

There was no proper I1 culture to assimilate. R1 Indo-Europeans were clearly superior with their horses, carts and metal works.

Modern North European culture (where I1s live) is mostly R1 already. I1s were peaceful matriarchial farmers.

[Ayman Vasconic]

what is your skin tone then as you really like to play the "I-M170, black of the north" thing?

White. And did I say, that all modern "I" are white? "Read what I said properly before commenting".



Nobody said that one progenitor can have more than 1 haplotype,

Yes, you did, if you did answer as you answer to what I said - or you pretend to not understand what I said, either you comment things, which you cannot understand, even if the meaning is clear. And if you really do not undersnad, then maybe yu are from Albania, but you are totaly foreign to the albanian culture, history and tradition. Tell now, that you dont, and you just will proof the statement.


read what I said properly before commenting.

So, yes, read what I said properly before commenting.

[Kelmendasi]

White. And did I say, that all modern "I" are white? "Read what I said properly before commenting".




Yes, you did, if you did answer as you answer to what I said - or you pretend to not understand what I said, either you comment things, which you cannot understand, even if the meaning is clear. And if you really do not undersnad, then maybe yu are from Albania, but you are totaly foreign to the albanian culture, history and tradition. Tell now, that you dont, and you just will proof the statement.



So, yes, read what I said properly before commenting.
Where did you say that because I couldn't be bothered to read it? Show me where I suggested that a single progenitor can have more than 1 haplogroup, this is what I said "Your family tree can have other haplogroups, for example your grandmothers paternal Ydna among other relatives" and if you're smart you will be able to actually work out what I am saying. Please educate me about Albanian culture then ;) as if you even know about Albanians, why are you even bringing up Albanians? I know my culture better than you know yours trust me on that one. Rethel, your broken English and beliefs makes it obvious that it's you lol.

[Ayman Vasconic]

Where did you say that because I couldn't be bothered to read it? Show me where I suggested that a single progenitor can have more than 1 haplogroup,

Context of my saying determines it.


this is what I said "Your family tree can have other haplogroups,

And I said, it can;t - and additionaly I explained you in what lies a difference - so is clearly clear, that I was talking about the family, not a family in the meaning of close people regarding kind of filiation atributted to EGO - if you even know what it means, if not try google.


your broken English and beliefs makes it obvious that it's you lol.

Surely, everybody in Poland share only your anarcho-leftist view point on family and speaks perfect oxford english.


why are you even bringing up Albanians? I know my culture better

If you would, you would not speak such nonsenses. Educate yourself at least by wikipedia. You are now arguing about lost case. Just stop it. either admit, that you didn;t understood what I said even with my border explanation, either admit, that the family has and can have only one haplotype, and stop pretending that you do not know what family is - especially if you are so expert in albanian culture. But you do not have to be - it is common knowlegde taught at school. At normal grammar school.

[Kelmendasi]

Context of my saying determines it.



And I said, it can;t - and additionaly I explained you in what lies a difference - so is clearly clear, that I was talking about the family, not a family in the meaning of close people regarding kind of filiation atributted to EGO - if you even know what it means, if not try google.



Surely, everybody in Poland share only your anarcho-leftist view point on family and speaks perfect oxford english.



If you would, you would not speak such nonsenses. Educate yourself at least by wikipedia. You are now arguing about lost case. Just stop it. either admit, that you didn;t understood what I said even with my border explanation, either admit, that the family has and can have only one haplotype, and stop pretending that you do not know what family is - especially if you are so expert in albanian culture. But you do not have to be - it is common knowlegde taught at school. At normal grammar school.
You don't even mean by family tree lol. Family tree includes every ancestor that you have, including your grandmothers father for example who would've had a different haplogroup from you, what you are on about is paternal lineage and I am not talking about that. Again you act like you know me or what I am talking about, this is more evidence that you misunderstood. I have a traditional view of role in the family and share a more patriarchal view which is far from "Anarcho-left". Trust me it's you who misunderstood because I know what you are saying and I agree with it as it's impossible for a single common ancestor to have multiple haplogroups. Still though you are using Albanian culture and acting as if you know more about Albanian culture than I do in a retarded context, again I know about my people probably better than you do about yours. Btw you do realize that your views contradict each other right.. I have seen you in other posts claim that your biblical characters like Ham could have had multiple haplogroups but yet this contrasts to the fact that a man can't have more than 1 Ydna haplogroup, so whats up with that lol?

This is a family tee:
https://www.easyways.net/wp-content/uploads/easy-ways-to-make-a-family-tree-online-e1448354368671.jpg

[Aren]

Rethel really is one of a kind.

[Ayman Vasconic]

This is a family tee:

Nope. The picture of a tree doesn;t make it a family tree, the more, that all people at the top, are not a ralatoves at all, the more - are not a members of the same family. This what you showed is an ahnentafel - a table showing ancestors. Family tree shows on the other hand people who all all related to each other, belong to one common family, and all have the same - if you have to put this way - one haplotype, as they are descendants of one guy. yes, I know, that imbeciles called this what you showed a family tree and this enter into "popular genealogy", but it does not make it a such, especially, that "popular" usually means "for dummies". Use your logic. And if you are patriarchal as you claim, stop spreading the nonesense - in addition showing this as the only verion or truth, when it is otherwise.

[Kelmendasi]

Nope. The picture of a tree doesn;t make it a family tree, the more, that all people at the top, are not a ralatoves at all, the more - are not a members of the same family. This what you showed is an ahnentafel - a table showing ancestors. Family tree shows on the other hand people who all all related to each other, belong to one common family, and all have the same - if you have to put this way - one haplotype, as they are descendants of one guy. yes, I know, that imbeciles called this what you showed a family tree and this enter into "popular genealogy", but it does not make it a such, especially, that "popular" usually means "for dummies". Use your logic. And if you are patriarchal as you claim, stop spreading the nonesense - in addition showing this as the only verion or truth, when it is otherwise.
Whatever man lol

[Kelmendasi]

Rethel really is one of a kind.
My head hurts now

[Norb]

My head hurts now

Kelmendasi, where does my HG peak L664?

[HERK]

R people were street shiters(Indians), they were one of the first immigrants into Europe to leech the social aid of that time and in about 5k years Arabs will be chatting in Apricity on how they brought civilisation to "peacful I farmers"

[Kelmendasi]

Kelmendasi, where does my HG peak L664?
L664 peaks in the Netherlands iirc but it is found in the rest of NW Europe at similar percentages.

[Dick]

Yea but impersonating his avatar character he created, as in l people were black and stuff, winks winks damn what a comedian.

We don't know Cheddar man's y-dna. It could be the same as La Brana's since they are likely to be close genetic relatives and both died around the same time. They also share the same mtDna which is ironically mostly found in Scandinavia. Maybe the dude got his skin pigmentation or eye color from his mother's side like La Brana?

Anyway, the whole Cheddar man fiasco is typical of how a hobby has turned into something to be used politically, in this case by the left and trolls on forums like this one. "Hey, the original Brit was dark skinned. Let's embrace the migrants. They belong here, we don't."


https://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/mtDNA-U5-map.png

[Petalpusher]

We don't know Cheddar man's y-dna. It could be the same as La Brana's since they are likely to be close genetic relatives and both died around the same time. They also share the same mtDna which is ironically mostly found in Scandinavia. Maybe the dude got his skin pigmentation or eye color from his mother's side like La Brana?

Anyway, the whole Cheddar man fiasco is typical of how a hobby has turned into something to be used politically, in this case by the left and trolls on forums like this one. "Hey, the original Brit was dark skinned. Let's embrace the migrants. They belong here, we don't."


https://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/mtDNA-U5-map.png


Could have been C as well, but anything is possible. The more important thing is that Cheddar man eventhough he was a bit different than the regular mesolithic, he was still closer to modern northern Europeans, and clearly very different and removed from Africans (actually more than any European living today), which shows again that pigmentation can change very quickly and easily, simply because there s not much to change, it's a handful of genes to swap.

https://s15.postimg.cc/age2tq2dn/adnac.jpg


My guess is he retained some elevated influences from the paleo Goyet or Vestonice cluser, something like that, opposed to the more typical Villabrunian cluster of the mesolithic.

[Petalpusher]

doublepost

[Ayman Vasconic]

Could have been C as well,

doesn't matter what hg he was, as he was WHG, which was of "I" as well, C does not determined the black appearance, but something else.


that pigmentation can change very quickly and easily, simply because there s not much to change, it's a handful of genes to swap

In your dreams.

[Petalpusher]

doesn't matter what hg he was, as he was WHG, which was of "I" as well, C does not determined the black appearance, but something else.

Oh so now haplogroups don't matter. Very glad to hear from someone who tries to associate l with Blacks and even made a banner about it, but saying that sounds like you ve just got outsmarted by your own stupidity.



In your dreams.

Actually i don't believe you are Rethel, i mean your logic is as broken but the English falls short of Rethel's usual wrecked train phrasing. It's even more twisted than that. Damn we really have a 'interesting" sample of the Polish population on this forum.

[Ayman Vasconic]

Oh so now haplogroups don't matter. Very glad to hear from someone who tries to associate l with Blacks and even made a banner about it, but saying that sounds like you ve just got outsmarted by your own stupidity.

I dont know what did you smoke, but surely you missread my post or did not read my post at all.

[markleslienicknak]

I have to ask....what is an I1 language exactly? A language that is only spoken by and learned by people with I1 haplotype DNA? We can extend that to cultural traits as well. Apparently the 2% of y-DNA within a man after many generations affects behavior and accepted cultural values, too. I suppose that means women couldn't possibly speak the I1 language or share in I1 or even R1 cultural traits, you know, with them not having the requisite y-DNA to give them a haplotype, right? *yawn* Chalk one more up to a ridiculous thread.