New Lebanese GEDmatch result. High Norman input!

[Haider]

That Lebanese Muslims as a whole have some extra European input due to the Crusades is already known, but this person has the highest I've seen yet. I did see some score more West Med than Red Sea before, but more Atlantic than Red Sea is a first. The high Atlantic is proof of the Western European affinity which is attributed to the Crusaders/Normans. Btw, this is a Sunni.

Eurogenes

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 37.91
2 West_Asian 20.06
3 Atlantic 10.57
4 West_Med 10.48
5 Red_Sea 9.08
6 Baltic 4.53
7 Northeast_African 3.7
8 South_Asian 2.02
9 Eastern_Euro 0.71
10 Siberian 0.49
11 Amerindian 0.3
12 Sub-Saharan 0.15

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Lebanese_Muslim 6.29
2 Cyprian 7.67
3 Syrian 8.17
4 Tunisian_Jewish 8.83
5 Sephardic_Jewish 10.52
6 Lebanese_Christian 11.13
7 Samaritan 11.19
8 Lebanese_Druze 11.87
9 Jordanian 12.09
10 Algerian_Jewish 12.69
11 Iranian_Jewish 12.71
12 Italian_Jewish 12.91
13 Palestinian 13.11
14 Libyan_Jewish 13.13
15 Assyrian 13.24
16 Kurdish_Jewish 13.35
17 Turkish 14.14
18 South_Italian 14.18
19 East_Sicilian 15.48
20 Bedouin 15.52

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 70.5% Tunisian_Jewish + 29.5% Kurdish @ 4.38
2 66.9% Tunisian_Jewish + 33.1% Georgian_Jewish @ 4.55
3 62.2% Tunisian_Jewish + 37.8% Assyrian @ 4.56
4 61.2% Tunisian_Jewish + 38.8% Iranian_Jewish @ 4.63
5 92.2% Lebanese_Muslim + 7.8% French_Basque @ 4.65
6 72.2% Tunisian_Jewish + 27.8% Iranian @ 4.69
7 64.5% Lebanese_Muslim + 35.5% Tunisian_Jewish @ 4.77
8 90.2% Lebanese_Muslim + 9.8% Spanish_Andalucia @ 4.86
9 70.2% Lebanese_Muslim + 29.8% Sephardic_Jewish @ 4.89
10 90.7% Lebanese_Muslim + 9.3% Spanish_Valencia @ 4.92
11 91.3% Lebanese_Muslim + 8.7% Spanish_Aragon @ 4.93
12 91.6% Lebanese_Muslim + 8.4% Southwest_French @ 4.94
13 82% Lebanese_Muslim + 18% West_Sicilian @ 4.94
14 91% Lebanese_Muslim + 9% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 4.97
15 84.2% Lebanese_Muslim + 15.8% Greek @ 5.05
16 78.2% Lebanese_Muslim + 21.8% South_Italian @ 5.1
17 76% Lebanese_Muslim + 24% Algerian_Jewish @ 5.11
18 91.3% Lebanese_Muslim + 8.7% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 5.11
19 55.9% Sephardic_Jewish + 44.1% Iranian_Jewish @ 5.12
20 91.9% Lebanese_Muslim + 8.1% Spanish_Cantabria @ 5.12

[Leto]

And K13 please.

[Sikeliot]

They even score East Sicilian and South Italian in their top 20. Interesting! This is obviously because of their increased European affinity.

My belief though is that the European settlers were mixed with Southern Europeans by the time they arrived, already having been heavily Gallo-Italic and the Scandinavian DNA had been diluted heavily. I don't think there was a large Scandinavian component to the Normans in Sicily, either.

[Haider]

And K13 please.


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 39.89
2 West_Asian 19
3 West_Med 14.1
4 Red_Sea 8.99
5 North_Atlantic 7.17
6 Baltic 3.53
7 Northeast_African 3.12
8 South_Asian 2.09
9 Siberian 0.97
10 Amerindian 0.5
11 Sub-Saharan 0.42
12 Oceanian 0.22

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Lebanese_Muslim 5.09
2 Cyprian 6.63
3 Syrian 6.9
4 Lebanese_Druze 8.96
5 Tunisian_Jewish 9.05
6 Samaritan 9.07
7 Jordanian 9.28
8 Lebanese_Christian 9.46
9 Libyan_Jewish 9.61
10 Palestinian 9.8
11 Sephardic_Jewish 11.09
12 Algerian_Jewish 12.32
13 Italian_Jewish 12.46
14 Iranian_Jewish 12.75
15 Kurdish_Jewish 12.85
16 Assyrian 13.61
17 Ashkenazi 13.81
18 Bedouin 14.45
19 South_Italian 14.72
20 East_Sicilian 15.34

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 75% Lebanese_Muslim + 25% Ashkenazi @ 2.3
2 74.4% Lebanese_Muslim + 25.6% Italian_Jewish @ 2.94
3 59.2% Tunisian_Jewish + 40.8% Iranian_Jewish @ 3.05
4 59.3% Libyan_Jewish + 40.7% Assyrian @ 3.06
5 57.6% Libyan_Jewish + 42.4% Iranian_Jewish @ 3.08
6 74.7% Lebanese_Muslim + 25.3% Algerian_Jewish @ 3.11
7 50.9% Algerian_Jewish + 49.1% Iranian_Jewish @ 3.13
8 68% Lebanese_Muslim + 32% Tunisian_Jewish @ 3.16
9 61% Tunisian_Jewish + 39% Assyrian @ 3.18
10 69.6% Lebanese_Muslim + 30.4% Libyan_Jewish @ 3.21
11 73.2% Lebanese_Muslim + 26.8% Sephardic_Jewish @ 3.32
12 83.5% Lebanese_Muslim + 16.5% West_Sicilian @ 3.37
13 66.1% Tunisian_Jewish + 33.9% Georgian_Jewish @ 3.38
14 64.5% Libyan_Jewish + 35.5% Georgian_Jewish @ 3.39
15 79.8% Lebanese_Muslim + 20.2% East_Sicilian @ 3.39
16 85.4% Lebanese_Muslim + 14.6% Greek_Thessaly @ 3.42
17 50.6% Italian_Jewish + 49.4% Iranian_Jewish @ 3.44
18 87.6% Lebanese_Muslim + 12.4% Tuscan @ 3.49
19 59.7% Tunisian_Jewish + 40.3% Kurdish_Jewish @ 3.52
20 58% Libyan_Jewish + 42% Kurdish_Jewish @ 3.52

[Sikeliot]

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 39.89
2 West_Asian 19
3 West_Med 14.1
4 Red_Sea 8.99
5 North_Atlantic 7.17
6 Baltic 3.53
7 Northeast_African 3.12
8 South_Asian 2.09
9 Siberian 0.97
10 Amerindian 0.5
11 Sub-Saharan 0.42
12 Oceanian 0.22

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Lebanese_Muslim 5.09
2 Cyprian 6.63
3 Syrian 6.9
4 Lebanese_Druze 8.96
5 Tunisian_Jewish 9.05
6 Samaritan 9.07
7 Jordanian 9.28
8 Lebanese_Christian 9.46
9 Libyan_Jewish 9.61
10 Palestinian 9.8
11 Sephardic_Jewish 11.09
12 Algerian_Jewish 12.32
13 Italian_Jewish 12.46
14 Iranian_Jewish 12.75
15 Kurdish_Jewish 12.85
16 Assyrian 13.61
17 Ashkenazi 13.81
18 Bedouin 14.45
19 South_Italian 14.72
20 East_Sicilian 15.34

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 75% Lebanese_Muslim + 25% Ashkenazi @ 2.3
2 74.4% Lebanese_Muslim + 25.6% Italian_Jewish @ 2.94
3 59.2% Tunisian_Jewish + 40.8% Iranian_Jewish @ 3.05
4 59.3% Libyan_Jewish + 40.7% Assyrian @ 3.06
5 57.6% Libyan_Jewish + 42.4% Iranian_Jewish @ 3.08
6 74.7% Lebanese_Muslim + 25.3% Algerian_Jewish @ 3.11
7 50.9% Algerian_Jewish + 49.1% Iranian_Jewish @ 3.13
8 68% Lebanese_Muslim + 32% Tunisian_Jewish @ 3.16
9 61% Tunisian_Jewish + 39% Assyrian @ 3.18
10 69.6% Lebanese_Muslim + 30.4% Libyan_Jewish @ 3.21
11 73.2% Lebanese_Muslim + 26.8% Sephardic_Jewish @ 3.32
12 83.5% Lebanese_Muslim + 16.5% West_Sicilian @ 3.37
13 66.1% Tunisian_Jewish + 33.9% Georgian_Jewish @ 3.38
14 64.5% Libyan_Jewish + 35.5% Georgian_Jewish @ 3.39
15 79.8% Lebanese_Muslim + 20.2% East_Sicilian @ 3.39
16 85.4% Lebanese_Muslim + 14.6% Greek_Thessaly @ 3.42
17 50.6% Italian_Jewish + 49.4% Iranian_Jewish @ 3.44
18 87.6% Lebanese_Muslim + 12.4% Tuscan @ 3.49
19 59.7% Tunisian_Jewish + 40.3% Kurdish_Jewish @ 3.52
20 58% Libyan_Jewish + 42% Kurdish_Jewish @ 3.52


Can you also post Dodecad K12b, PuntDNA-L K13, and MDLP K23?

[StonyArabia]

It just shows the savagery of the Crusaders

[Leto]

1 75% Lebanese_Muslim + 25% Ashkenazi @ 2.3
Very interesting, not everytime you get such even percentage in the mixed mode.

[StonyArabia]

They even score East Sicilian and South Italian in their top 20. Interesting! This is obviously because of their increased European affinity.

My belief though is that the European settlers were mixed with Southern Europeans by the time they arrived, already having been heavily Gallo-Italic and the Scandinavian DNA had been diluted heavily. I don't think there was a large Scandinavian component to the Normans in Sicily, either.

The Normans were paternally Scando, but maternally French, of course there dna would be diluted

[Leto]

It just shows the savagery of the Crusaders
How the fuck do you know that? Maybe that's just from an ordinary sexual relationship. We don't know what religion that person's ancestors belonged to 800-900 years ago. At one point literally no one in the Levant was Muslim.

[Sikeliot]

How the fuck do you know that? Maybe that's just from an ordinary sexual relationship. We don't know what religion that person's ancestors belonged to 900-800 years ago. At one point literally no one in the Levant was not Muslim.

It's also possible this person's ancestry could be a French great-great grandparent or something from when Lebanon was ruled by the French, it might not even be as far back as the Crusades.

I would suspect this fit is probably close to the truth:

"5 92.2% Lebanese_Muslim + 7.8% French_Basque @ 4.65"

[Aren]

How the fuck do you know that? Maybe that's just from an ordinary sexual relationship. We don't know what religion that person's ancestors belonged to 800-900 years ago. At one point literally no one in the Levant was Muslim.

Arab talking about savagery :rolleyes:

[Sikeliot]

Why is the Crusades seen as any more brutal than the Arab conquest which saw the destruction of all of the Levant's indigenous cultures, with the exception of isolates like Samaritans and Levantine Jews?

[Leto]

Arab talking about savagery :rolleyes:
Yes, the Crusades were mainly a response to the growing Islamic encroachment on the southern borders of Europe (Sicily, Iberia, etc.).

[Sikeliot]

I am unsure whether to attribute this to recent French input or to Normans but it is clear this person has Western European ancestry. I'm actually going to go with Norman because I doubt 19th century French would have assimilated into the Muslim community rather than into the Christian one.

[QUICAS]

I bet how christian levantines are around 1/4 western european and 3/4 arab. Christian levantines were a big chunk of Levantine population before they migrated to Latin America around 1900-1950. Today Latin America has almost the double of lebaneses compared to lebanon, over 95% were christians.

[Sikeliot]

I bet how christian levantines are around 1/4 western european and 3/4 arab. Christian levantines were a big chunk of Levantine population before they migrated to Latin America around 1900-1950. Today Latin America has almost the double of lebaneses compared to lebanon, over 95% were christians.


Lebanese Christians are probably the purest Levantines after Samaritans. They do not have Western European (or really, any European) ancestry.

[Leto]

Show me proof in form of a Y-DNA study that Lebanese Muslims differ significantly from Lebanese Christians and Druze. If there's no increase in such haplogroups as R1b, I1 among the Muslims as opposed to the Christians, then we don't have solid proof backing up those claims.

[StonyArabia]

Lebanese Christians are probably the purest Levantines after Samaritans. They do not have Western European (or really, any European) ancestry.

You realize they still have Ghassanid ancestry?

[Kivan]

I bet how christian levantines are around 1/4 western european and 3/4 arab. Christian levantines were a big chunk of Levantine population before they migrated to Latin America around 1900-1950. Today Latin America has almost the double of lebaneses compared to lebanon, over 95% were christians.

But, as far as i know, they are mostly mixed with locals.

[Sikeliot]

Show me proof in form of a Y-DNA study that Lebanese Muslims differ significantly from Lebanese Christians and Druze. If there's no increase in such haplogroups as R1b, I1 among the Muslims as opposed to the Christians, then we don't have solid proof backing up those claims.

There hasn't been one yet, but as we know, y-dna is not a reliable indicator of autosomal DNA nor even all of the migrations. For instance, the Irish have much higher Scandinavian ancestry than y-dna would show.

[Haider]

Can you also post Dodecad K12b, PuntDNA-L U K13, and MDLP K23?

Dodecad k12b


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 39.08
2 Southwest_Asian 18.71
3 Atlantic_Med 16.4
4 Gedrosia 7.99
5 North_European 7.81
6 Northwest_African 3.88
7 East_African 3.38
8 South_Asian 1.99
9 East_Asian 0.4
10 Sub_Saharan 0.34

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Lebanese (Behar) 8.38
2 Sephardic_Jews (Behar) 10.84
3 Cypriots (Behar) 11.48
4 Syrians (Behar) 11.69
5 Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) 12.49
6 Jordanians (Behar) 12.6
7 Ashkenazi (Dodecad) 12.86
8 Druze (HGDP) 12.89
9 Morocco_Jews (Behar) 13.34
10 Turkish (Dodecad) 13.68
11 Palestinian (HGDP) 14.5
12 Turks (Behar) 14.93
13 S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) 15.14
14 Sicilian (Dodecad) 15.63
15 Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) 15.95
16 Iraq_Jews (Behar) 16.69
17 Georgia_Jews (Behar) 17.67
18 Assyrian (Dodecad) 18.29
19 Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) 18.53
20 Samaritians (Behar) 18.58

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 60.7% Lebanese (Behar) + 39.3% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) @ 2.95
2 70.7% Lebanese (Behar) + 29.3% Greek (Dodecad) @ 3.16
3 61.7% Lebanese (Behar) + 38.3% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) @ 3.23
4 74.7% Lebanese (Behar) + 25.3% C_Italian (Dodecad) @ 3.37
5 77.6% Lebanese (Behar) + 22.4% Tuscan (HGDP) @ 3.38
6 76.6% Lebanese (Behar) + 23.4% O_Italian (Dodecad) @ 3.4
7 50.2% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 49.8% Jordanians (Behar) @ 3.41
8 51.8% Syrians (Behar) + 48.2% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) @ 3.45
9 65.9% Lebanese (Behar) + 34.1% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) @ 3.49
10 66.7% Lebanese (Behar) + 33.3% Sicilian (Dodecad) @ 3.5
11 78.5% Lebanese (Behar) + 21.5% TSI30 (Metspalu) @ 3.52
12 60.6% Jordanians (Behar) + 39.4% Greek (Dodecad) @ 3.55
13 81.6% Lebanese (Behar) + 18.4% N_Italian (Dodecad) @ 3.66
14 82.3% Lebanese (Behar) + 17.7% North_Italian (HGDP) @ 3.76
15 80.6% Lebanese (Behar) + 19.4% Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) @ 3.99
16 52.7% Syrians (Behar) + 47.3% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) @ 4.02
17 81.2% Lebanese (Behar) + 18.8% Romanians (Behar) @ 4.1
18 50.6% Jordanians (Behar) + 49.4% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) @ 4.18
19 80.4% Lebanese (Behar) + 19.6% Bulgarian (Dodecad) @ 4.2
20 82.6% Druze (HGDP) + 17.4% Orkney (1000Genomes) @ 4.21


PuntDNA-L K13

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 SW_Europe 30.63
2 West_Asia 30.51
3 SW_Asia 22.76
4 NE_Europe 7.29
5 South_Asia 2.46
6 East_Africa 2.22
7 West_Africa 1.18
8 Siberia 1.02
9 Americas 0.94
10 South_Africa 0.63
11 Oceania 0.37

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Syrian 5
2 Lebanese_Christian 6.41
3 Lebanese_Druze 6.44
4 Lebanese_Muslim 6.91
5 Jordanian 7.26
6 Cypriot 7.76
7 Palestinian 9.97
8 Turkish 10.31
9 Turkish_Kayseri 10.45
10 Sephardic_Jew 11.2
11 Samaritan_Jew 12.72
12 Assyrian 13.23
13 Italian_Sicilian 14.08
14 Armenian 14.12
15 Ashkenazy_Jew 14.36
16 Turkish_Aydin 14.67
17 Azerbaijan_Azeri 15.47
18 Turkish_Trabzon 16.94
19 Egyptian 17.39
20 Egyptian_Copts 18.16

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 91.1% Syrian + 8.9% French_Basque @ 2.14
2 88.4% Syrian + 11.6% Puerto_Rican @ 2.27
3 89.5% Syrian + 10.5% Spaniard @ 2.28
4 71.3% Syrian + 28.7% Sephardic_Jew @ 2.36
5 75.9% Syrian + 24.1% Italian_Sicilian @ 2.37
6 85.1% Lebanese_Druze + 14.9% Puerto_Rican @ 2.44
7 88.2% Syrian + 11.8% Italian_Bergamo @ 2.47
8 76.6% Syrian + 23.4% Ashkenazy_Jew @ 2.52
9 81.7% Syrian + 18.3% Italian_Abruzzo @ 2.54
10 86.1% Syrian + 13.9% Italian_Tuscan @ 2.6
11 85.4% Syrian + 14.6% Albanian @ 2.78
12 91.1% Syrian + 8.9% French @ 2.82
13 85.6% Lebanese_Christian + 14.4% Puerto_Rican @ 2.84
14 85.3% Syrian + 14.7% Greek_Thessaly @ 2.86
15 91.2% Syrian + 8.8% Colombian @ 2.9
16 84.4% Lebanese_Muslim + 15.6% Puerto_Rican @ 2.91
17 86.3% Syrian + 13.7% Kosovar @ 2.94
18 81.8% Syrian + 18.2% Greek_Central @ 2.97
19 91.8% Syrian + 8.2% Belgian @ 3
20 88.3% Syrian + 11.7% Macedonian @ 3.03

MDLP K23


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 38.95
2 Near_East 17.19
3 European_Early_Farmers 15.51
4 South_Central_Asian 9.12
5 North_African 5.56
6 European_Hunters_Gatherers 4.68
7 East_African 2.06
8 South_Indian 1.18
9 Amerindian 1.04
10 Paleo_Siberian 0.93
11 Subsaharian 0.88
12 Archaic_African 0.77
13 South_East_Asian 0.63
14 Khoisan 0.5
15 African_Pygmy 0.5
16 Australoid 0.46
17 East_Siberian 0.03

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Syrian_Jew ( ) 5.08
2 Lebanese ( ) 8.01
3 Cretan ( ) 8.03
4 Lebanese_Muslim ( ) 8.29
5 Turk_Balikesir ( ) 9.43
6 Turk_Jew ( ) 9.79
7 Sephardic_Jew ( ) 10.29
8 Samaritian ( ) 10.37
9 Italian_Jew ( ) 10.81
10 Turk_Aydin ( ) 11.13
11 Turk_Adana ( ) 11.13
12 Greek_Macedonia ( ) 11.18
13 Romanian_Jew ( ) 11.2
14 Ashkenazi_Jew ( ) 11.29
15 Greek ( ) 11.53
16 Greek_Smyrna ( ) 11.55
17 Sicilian_East ( ) 11.7
18 French_Jew ( ) 11.86
19 Ashkenazi ( ) 11.9
20 Palestinian ( ) 11.94

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 80.4% Lebanese_Muslim ( ) + 19.6% Italian_Bergamo ( ) @ 2.07
2 71.4% Lebanese ( ) + 28.6% Italian_Abruzzo ( ) @ 2.21
3 83.7% Lebanese_Muslim ( ) + 16.3% Spanish_Baleares_IBS ( ) @ 2.22
4 68.7% Lebanese ( ) + 31.3% Kosovar ( ) @ 2.26
5 76.6% Lebanese_Muslim ( ) + 23.4% Italian_Piedmont ( ) @ 2.26
6 74.6% Lebanese_Muslim ( ) + 25.4% Italian_Tuscan ( ) @ 2.29
7 66.5% Lebanese ( ) + 33.5% Greek_Northwest ( ) @ 2.32
8 63.1% Lebanese_Muslim ( ) + 36.9% Sicilian_West ( ) @ 2.35
9 58.3% Greek_Smyrna ( ) + 41.7% Jordanian ( ) @ 2.36
10 75.4% Lebanese ( ) + 24.6% Italian_Tuscan ( ) @ 2.37
11 85.6% Lebanese_Muslim ( ) + 14.4% Spaniard ( ) @ 2.45
12 86.2% Lebanese_Muslim ( ) + 13.8% Spanish_Cataluna_IBS ( ) @ 2.46
13 61.8% Cretan ( ) + 38.2% Syrian ( ) @ 2.49
14 87.1% Lebanese_Muslim ( ) + 12.9% Spanish_Valencia_IBS ( ) @ 2.51
15 88.8% Lebanese_Muslim ( ) + 11.2% French_South ( ) @ 2.53
16 77.5% Lebanese ( ) + 22.5% Italian_Piedmont ( ) @ 2.56
17 86.8% Lebanese_Muslim ( ) + 13.2% Spanish_Andalucia_IBS ( ) @ 2.58
18 87.5% Lebanese_Muslim ( ) + 12.5% Spanish_Castilla_la_Mancha_IBS ( ) @ 2.59
19 87.9% Lebanese_Muslim ( ) + 12.1% Spanish_Cantabria_IBS ( ) @ 2.6
20 70.9% Lebanese_Muslim ( ) + 29.1% Italian_Abruzzo ( ) @ 2.6

[QUICAS]

Lebanese Christians are probably the purest Levantines after Samaritans. They do not have Western European (or really, any European) ancestry.

But why they plot so northern and even closer to some europeans like italians and cypriots?

[Leto]

There hasn't been one yet, but as we know, y-dna is not a reliable indicator of autosomal DNA nor even all of the migrations. For instance, the Irish have much higher Scandinavian ancestry than y-dna would show.
Well, I disagree. Look at Latin America or African-Americans - European Y-DNA is all over the place there. And in Russia and Eastern Europe we don't have much Mongolian Y-DNA influence, the haplogroups C and O are extremely rare among ethnic Russians for instance. Maybe 1% combined. We don't even have a high percentage of Asian R1a.

[QUICAS]

But, as far as i know, they are mostly mixed with locals.

True, in Sao Paulo city they are always part european brazilian.

[StonyArabia]

Why is the Crusades seen as any more brutal than the Arab conquest which saw the destruction of all of the Levant's indigenous cultures, with the exception of isolates like Samaritans and Levantine Jews?

Because there were Arabian tribes before even Islam appeared. These Arabian tribes were like the Sahlids, Tankhuids, Tayy, Banu Judahm and of course the Ghassanids. They were not alien strangers to the region like the Crusaders. Plus standard Arabic was spoken there which replaced the de-funct and ugly Aramaic languages. Not to mention the Southern area was very Arabian especially southern Syria and Jordan.

[QUICAS]

Also there is always some estory about familes, soldiers and kids left behind in Levant.

[Aren]

Because there were Arabian tribes before even Islam appeared. These Arabian tribes were like the Sahlids, Tankhuids, Tayy, Banu Judahm and of course the Ghassanids. They were not alien strangers to the region like the Crusaders. Plus standard Arabic was spoken there which replaced the de-funct and ugly Aramaic languages

You did not answer his question. Being "closer" has little to with this. The arab conqeust was violent and opposed by the native Levantines.

[Leto]

Plus standard Arabic was spoken there which replaced the de-funct and ugly Aramaic languages
Why do you think those ancient liturgical languages are uglier than Standard Arabic which has little valueable literature besides the Quran which is a false prophesy that was not even written by Mohammed himself (he couldn't write). Some Jews mixed the Bible with some Arabian mythology and oral tradition and that's considered to be the best book in Arabic. Ask Moody, he lives in the UAE but says Standard Arabic is barely used where he lives. :picard1:

[Sikeliot]

Dodecad k12b


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 39.08
2 Southwest_Asian 18.71
3 Atlantic_Med 16.4
4 Gedrosia 7.99
5 North_European 7.81
6 Northwest_African 3.88
7 East_African 3.38
8 South_Asian 1.99
9 East_Asian 0.4
10 Sub_Saharan 0.34

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Lebanese (Behar) 8.38
2 Sephardic_Jews (Behar) 10.84
3 Cypriots (Behar) 11.48
4 Syrians (Behar) 11.69
5 Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) 12.49
6 Jordanians (Behar) 12.6
7 Ashkenazi (Dodecad) 12.86
8 Druze (HGDP) 12.89
9 Morocco_Jews (Behar) 13.34
10 Turkish (Dodecad) 13.68
11 Palestinian (HGDP) 14.5
12 Turks (Behar) 14.93
13 S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) 15.14
14 Sicilian (Dodecad) 15.63
15 Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) 15.95
16 Iraq_Jews (Behar) 16.69
17 Georgia_Jews (Behar) 17.67
18 Assyrian (Dodecad) 18.29
19 Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) 18.53
20 Samaritians (Behar) 18.58

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 60.7% Lebanese (Behar) + 39.3% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) @ 2.95
2 70.7% Lebanese (Behar) + 29.3% Greek (Dodecad) @ 3.16
3 61.7% Lebanese (Behar) + 38.3% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) @ 3.23
4 74.7% Lebanese (Behar) + 25.3% C_Italian (Dodecad) @ 3.37
5 77.6% Lebanese (Behar) + 22.4% Tuscan (HGDP) @ 3.38
6 76.6% Lebanese (Behar) + 23.4% O_Italian (Dodecad) @ 3.4
7 50.2% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 49.8% Jordanians (Behar) @ 3.41
8 51.8% Syrians (Behar) + 48.2% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) @ 3.45
9 65.9% Lebanese (Behar) + 34.1% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) @ 3.49
10 66.7% Lebanese (Behar) + 33.3% Sicilian (Dodecad) @ 3.5
11 78.5% Lebanese (Behar) + 21.5% TSI30 (Metspalu) @ 3.52
12 60.6% Jordanians (Behar) + 39.4% Greek (Dodecad) @ 3.55
13 81.6% Lebanese (Behar) + 18.4% N_Italian (Dodecad) @ 3.66
14 82.3% Lebanese (Behar) + 17.7% North_Italian (HGDP) @ 3.76
15 80.6% Lebanese (Behar) + 19.4% Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) @ 3.99
16 52.7% Syrians (Behar) + 47.3% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) @ 4.02
17 81.2% Lebanese (Behar) + 18.8% Romanians (Behar) @ 4.1
18 50.6% Jordanians (Behar) + 49.4% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) @ 4.18
19 80.4% Lebanese (Behar) + 19.6% Bulgarian (Dodecad) @ 4.2
20 82.6% Druze (HGDP) + 17.4% Orkney (1000Genomes) @ 4.21


PuntDNA-L K13

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 SW_Europe 30.63
2 West_Asia 30.51
3 SW_Asia 22.76
4 NE_Europe 7.29
5 South_Asia 2.46
6 East_Africa 2.22
7 West_Africa 1.18
8 Siberia 1.02
9 Americas 0.94
10 South_Africa 0.63
11 Oceania 0.37

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Syrian 5
2 Lebanese_Christian 6.41
3 Lebanese_Druze 6.44
4 Lebanese_Muslim 6.91
5 Jordanian 7.26
6 Cypriot 7.76
7 Palestinian 9.97
8 Turkish 10.31
9 Turkish_Kayseri 10.45
10 Sephardic_Jew 11.2
11 Samaritan_Jew 12.72
12 Assyrian 13.23
13 Italian_Sicilian 14.08
14 Armenian 14.12
15 Ashkenazy_Jew 14.36
16 Turkish_Aydin 14.67
17 Azerbaijan_Azeri 15.47
18 Turkish_Trabzon 16.94
19 Egyptian 17.39
20 Egyptian_Copts 18.16

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 91.1% Syrian + 8.9% French_Basque @ 2.14
2 88.4% Syrian + 11.6% Puerto_Rican @ 2.27
3 89.5% Syrian + 10.5% Spaniard @ 2.28
4 71.3% Syrian + 28.7% Sephardic_Jew @ 2.36
5 75.9% Syrian + 24.1% Italian_Sicilian @ 2.37
6 85.1% Lebanese_Druze + 14.9% Puerto_Rican @ 2.44
7 88.2% Syrian + 11.8% Italian_Bergamo @ 2.47
8 76.6% Syrian + 23.4% Ashkenazy_Jew @ 2.52
9 81.7% Syrian + 18.3% Italian_Abruzzo @ 2.54
10 86.1% Syrian + 13.9% Italian_Tuscan @ 2.6
11 85.4% Syrian + 14.6% Albanian @ 2.78
12 91.1% Syrian + 8.9% French @ 2.82
13 85.6% Lebanese_Christian + 14.4% Puerto_Rican @ 2.84
14 85.3% Syrian + 14.7% Greek_Thessaly @ 2.86
15 91.2% Syrian + 8.8% Colombian @ 2.9
16 84.4% Lebanese_Muslim + 15.6% Puerto_Rican @ 2.91
17 86.3% Syrian + 13.7% Kosovar @ 2.94
18 81.8% Syrian + 18.2% Greek_Central @ 2.97
19 91.8% Syrian + 8.2% Belgian @ 3
20 88.3% Syrian + 11.7% Macedonian @ 3.03

MDLP K23


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 38.95
2 Near_East 17.19
3 European_Early_Farmers 15.51
4 South_Central_Asian 9.12
5 North_African 5.56
6 European_Hunters_Gatherers 4.68
7 East_African 2.06
8 South_Indian 1.18
9 Amerindian 1.04
10 Paleo_Siberian 0.93
11 Subsaharian 0.88
12 Archaic_African 0.77
13 South_East_Asian 0.63
14 Khoisan 0.5
15 African_Pygmy 0.5
16 Australoid 0.46
17 East_Siberian 0.03

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Syrian_Jew ( ) 5.08
2 Lebanese ( ) 8.01
3 Cretan ( ) 8.03
4 Lebanese_Muslim ( ) 8.29
5 Turk_Balikesir ( ) 9.43
6 Turk_Jew ( ) 9.79
7 Sephardic_Jew ( ) 10.29
8 Samaritian ( ) 10.37
9 Italian_Jew ( ) 10.81
10 Turk_Aydin ( ) 11.13
11 Turk_Adana ( ) 11.13
12 Greek_Macedonia ( ) 11.18
13 Romanian_Jew ( ) 11.2
14 Ashkenazi_Jew ( ) 11.29
15 Greek ( ) 11.53
16 Greek_Smyrna ( ) 11.55
17 Sicilian_East ( ) 11.7
18 French_Jew ( ) 11.86
19 Ashkenazi ( ) 11.9
20 Palestinian ( ) 11.94

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 80.4% Lebanese_Muslim ( ) + 19.6% Italian_Bergamo ( ) @ 2.07
2 71.4% Lebanese ( ) + 28.6% Italian_Abruzzo ( ) @ 2.21
3 83.7% Lebanese_Muslim ( ) + 16.3% Spanish_Baleares_IBS ( ) @ 2.22
4 68.7% Lebanese ( ) + 31.3% Kosovar ( ) @ 2.26
5 76.6% Lebanese_Muslim ( ) + 23.4% Italian_Piedmont ( ) @ 2.26
6 74.6% Lebanese_Muslim ( ) + 25.4% Italian_Tuscan ( ) @ 2.29
7 66.5% Lebanese ( ) + 33.5% Greek_Northwest ( ) @ 2.32
8 63.1% Lebanese_Muslim ( ) + 36.9% Sicilian_West ( ) @ 2.35
9 58.3% Greek_Smyrna ( ) + 41.7% Jordanian ( ) @ 2.36
10 75.4% Lebanese ( ) + 24.6% Italian_Tuscan ( ) @ 2.37
11 85.6% Lebanese_Muslim ( ) + 14.4% Spaniard ( ) @ 2.45
12 86.2% Lebanese_Muslim ( ) + 13.8% Spanish_Cataluna_IBS ( ) @ 2.46
13 61.8% Cretan ( ) + 38.2% Syrian ( ) @ 2.49
14 87.1% Lebanese_Muslim ( ) + 12.9% Spanish_Valencia_IBS ( ) @ 2.51
15 88.8% Lebanese_Muslim ( ) + 11.2% French_South ( ) @ 2.53
16 77.5% Lebanese ( ) + 22.5% Italian_Piedmont ( ) @ 2.56
17 86.8% Lebanese_Muslim ( ) + 13.2% Spanish_Andalucia_IBS ( ) @ 2.58
18 87.5% Lebanese_Muslim ( ) + 12.5% Spanish_Castilla_la_Mancha_IBS ( ) @ 2.59
19 87.9% Lebanese_Muslim ( ) + 12.1% Spanish_Cantabria_IBS ( ) @ 2.6
20 70.9% Lebanese_Muslim ( ) + 29.1% Italian_Abruzzo ( ) @ 2.6


In Dodecad, this person has as much North European as do the least North European influenced Sicilians/Calabrese. The difference between this person and a Sicilian of that type is Sicilians would have more Atlantic-Med, and less SW Asian, but I am definitely going with Norman because if this person had say, Mycenaean or ancient Greek ancestry, the North European would have been too low to create this impact today.

On MDLP K23, this person can be modeled as Levantine + north Italian, so clearly it is something Gallo-Italic (French like).

This person is also very close on some oracles to Ashkenazim and Cretans, so it is simply that the additional European input pulls them closer to peripheral Southern Europeans and islanders.

[Leto]

I wonder what he looks like and what haplogroups he has.

[StonyArabia]

You did not answer his question. Being "closer" has little to with this. The arab conqeust was violent and opposed by the native Levantines.

Nope if anything the Arab conquest liberated them from their Byzantine overlords, however the southern region was semi-pagan and only nominally Christian and were of Bedouin origins. Ironically the Arabian Ghassanids fought against the incoming Arabian troops, because they did not want to lose their elite status in the region. Yet several pagan Arabian Bedouin tribes in the South, converted willingly, and even some Christian Arab tribes would join beefed up the Arabian troops and not mention the Bedouin tribesmen opened the gates against the Byzantines, one such tribe was the Banu Kalb who were Christian but reverted to Islam to have political alliance with the Ummyads. This is not only the tribe to do switch, for example earlier in Ma'an the Prince Farwah Ibn Amer Al-Judhami had willingly converted to Islam, and was publicly crucified, which saw large revolts against the Byzantine in many areas of Jordan for example.

[Leto]

In Dodecad, this person has as much North European as do the least North European influenced Sicilians/Calabrese. The difference between this person and a Sicilian of that type is Sicilians would have more Atlantic-Med, and less SW Asian, but I am definitely going with Norman because if this person had say, Mycenaean or ancient Greek ancestry, the North European would have been too low to create this impact today.

On MDLP K23, this person can be modeled as Levantine + north Italian, so clearly it is something Gallo-Italic (French like).

This person is also very close on some oracles to Ashkenazim and Cretans, so it is simply that the additional European input pulls them closer to peripheral Southern Europeans and islanders.
Compare with this half Leb half Italian results
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?225660-American-of-Lebanese-Italian-and-Germanic-origin-GEDmatch&p=5022384&viewfull=1#post5022384

[Aren]

Nope if anything the Arab conquest liberated them from their Byzantine overlords, however the southern region was semi-pagan and only nominally Christian and were of Bedouin origins. Ironically the Arabian Ghassanids fought against the incoming Arabian troops, because they did not want to lose their elite status in the region. Yet several pagan Arabian Bedouin tribes in the South, converted willingly, and even some Christian Arab tribes would join beefed up the Arabian troops and not mention the Bedouin tribesmen opened the gates against the Byzantines, one such tribe was the Banu Kalb who were Christian but reverted to Islam to have political alliance with the Ummyads. This is not only the tribe to do switch, for example earlier in Ma'an the Prince Farwah Ibn Amer Al-Judhami had willingly converted to Islam, and was publicly crucified, which saw large revolts against the Byzantine in many areas of Jordan for example.

Liberated?! Wtf am I reading, did you actually grew up in Canada going to normal Canadian schools or did your parents ship you to Islamic private schools? I know we have those fucked up schools here in Sweden.

[Sikeliot]

Dodecad k12b


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 39.08
2 Southwest_Asian 18.71
3 Atlantic_Med 16.4
4 Gedrosia 7.99
5 North_European 7.81
6 Northwest_African 3.88
7 East_African 3.38
8 South_Asian 1.99
9 East_Asian 0.4
10 Sub_Saharan 0.34

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Lebanese (Behar) 8.38
2 Sephardic_Jews (Behar) 10.84
3 Cypriots (Behar) 11.48
4 Syrians (Behar) 11.69
5 Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) 12.49
6 Jordanians (Behar) 12.6
7 Ashkenazi (Dodecad) 12.86
8 Druze (HGDP) 12.89
9 Morocco_Jews (Behar) 13.34
10 Turkish (Dodecad) 13.68
11 Palestinian (HGDP) 14.5
12 Turks (Behar) 14.93
13 S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) 15.14
14 Sicilian (Dodecad) 15.63
15 Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) 15.95
16 Iraq_Jews (Behar) 16.69
17 Georgia_Jews (Behar) 17.67
18 Assyrian (Dodecad) 18.29
19 Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) 18.53
20 Samaritians (Behar) 18.58




This is the most exotic South Italian I've seen... the North Euro is basically the same amount, and the difference is just a tradeoff of more Atlantic-Med, less SW Asian than the Lebanese person gets.

This person is half Calabrian, half Palermitan.

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 39.07
2 Atlantic_Med 24.73
3 Southwest_Asian 12.89
4 North_European 8.98
5 Gedrosia 7.54
6 Northwest_African 5.95
7 Siberian 0.33
8 East_African 0.27
9 Sub_Saharan 0.19
10 Southeast_Asian 0.07

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Sephardic_Jews (Behar) 4.85
2 Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) 6.21
3 Ashkenazi (Dodecad) 6.58
4 Sicilian (Dodecad) 6.97
5 S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) 7.03
6 Morocco_Jews (Behar) 8.7
7 Cypriots (Behar) 12.3
8 Greek (Dodecad) 12.8
9 C_Italian (Dodecad) 14.69
10 Turkish (Dodecad) 15.57
11 Lebanese (Behar) 17.04
12 Turks (Behar) 17.98
13 O_Italian (Dodecad) 18.4
14 Tuscan (HGDP) 18.8
15 Druze (HGDP) 19.37
16 TSI30 (Metspalu) 20.08
17 Syrians (Behar) 20.7
18 Jordanians (Behar) 21.47
19 Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) 22.13
20 Armenian (Dodecad) 23.14

[Haider]

It just shows the savagery of the Crusaders

There's nothing to be proud of in having Norman input considering how it was acquired. But it is what it is. We have to accept it otherwise we wouldn't exist.

[Sikeliot]

There's nothing to be proud of in having Norman input considering how it was acquired. But it is what is. We have to accept it otherwise we wouldn't exist.

As far as I am concerned, the Norman and the Arab input are both acquired through brutality and conquest, and the only thing Lebanese should be proud of is being Canaanites.

[StonyArabia]

Why do you think those ancient liturgical languages are uglier than Standard Arabic which has little valueable literature besides the Quran which is a false prophesy that was not even written by Mohammed himself (he couldn't write). Some Jews mixed the Bible with some Arabian mythology and oral tradition and that's considered to be the best book in Arabic. Ask Moody, he lives in the UAE but says Standard Arabic is barely used where he lives. :picard1:

Classical Arabic or known as Fusha is very rich language and poetic. However modern standard Arabic is different and it's used across the Mideast/North Africa for communication/teaching. It differs from the Arabic that's the Qu'ran is written in. Modern standard Arabic is barely used other than education. Yes most people use their own dialects for Arabic, although Egyptian and Syrian are widely used because their universal and most of the Mideast media is influenced heavily by those two groups. Although Syrian is becoming more popular than the Egyptian dialect.

[Haider]

As far as I am concerned, the Norman and the Arab input are both acquired through brutality and conquest, and the only thing Lebanese should be proud of is being Canaanites.

Honestly, I don't think there's much Arabian input. For instance, if Red Sea peaks in Gulf Arabs and the Canaanites scored around 15-20% of it, how come modern Lebanese score LESS than that. This person for instance only 9%. I think the Arabian input is mostly due to founder effect/genetic bottleneck and it affected mostly haplogroup distribution among Muslims, but not autossomal.

[StonyArabia]

Liberated?! Wtf am I reading, did you actually grew up in Canada going to normal Canadian schools or did your parents ship you to Islamic private schools? I know we have those fucked up schools here in Sweden.

No, I was taught history by my grandmother who was part Jordanian Bedouin from Petra, she told me how her tribe became Muslim, when they were pagans and of the Al-Uzzah Goddess sect . She told me that the Byzantine would prosecute the pagan Arabian tribes, in trying to force them into Christianity, many refused. Thus when Islam appeared in the Hejaz, and then the Arabian troops came out from Arabia, who spoke the same language and similar culture, many of her tribe became Muslim and joined the Arabian troops against Byzantinum. I found that story to be more common than is taught through my research.

[Aren]

No, I was taught history by my grandmother who was part Jordanian Bedouin from Petra, she told me how her tribe became Muslim, when they were pagans and of the Al-Uzzah Goddess sect . She told me that the Byzantine would prosecute the pagan Arabian tribes, in trying to force them into Christianity, many refused. Thus when Islam appeared in the Hejaz, and then the Arabian troops came out from Arabia, who spoke the same language and similar culture, many of her tribe became Muslim and joined the Arabian troops against Byzantinum. I found that story to more common than is taught through my research.

This is just astonishing. It's like you have zero insight outside of your own ethnic group. You cannot see any fault in Arabs throughout history yet I have similar stories from my own great-grandparents telling how horrendously they were treated by yep that's right, Arabs. You would be suprised to know how Jizya-like taxes were still in use until quite recently by regular muslims in our neighbourhoods.

[Petalpusher]

The absence of North_Sea at all is a bit strange, i guess by nature of how works admixture at high genetic distances it could translate into other related things, mainly Atlantic/Baltic, but North sea is still the first component of Normands, at least 30% and this person score 0.0%.

[Grace O'Malley]

The absence of North_Sea at all is a bit strange, i guess by nature of how works admixture at high genetic distances it could translate into other related things, mainly Atlantic/Baltic, but North sea is still the first component of Normands, at least 30% and this person score 0.0%.

I think people are jumping to a lot of conclusions here. All Northwest Europeans score high North_Sea so none is a bit odd.

[Leto]

I hate K15. On K13 he gets both Baltic and N. Atlantic. That's what matters.

[Grace O'Malley]

I hate K15. On K13 he gets both Baltic and N. Atlantic. That's what matters.

How widespread would Norman admixture be in Lebanese? I bet it doesn't even register. Has there been any studies done to verify this? Couldn't this person have more recent European ancestry? You really need a scientific peer reviewed paper to verify what admixture populations have. It would be interesting to look at quite a few Gedmatch results of Lebanese to see what's consistent.

[Leto]

How widespread would Norman admixture be in Lebanese? I bet it doesn't even register. Has there been any studies done to verify this? Couldn't this person have more recent European ancestry? You really need a scientific peer reviewed paper to verify what admixture populations have. It would be interesting to look at quite a few Gedmatch results of Lebanese to see what's consistent.
I agree. That person is definitely atypical though. Most Lebs get little to no NW European.

[Grace O'Malley]

I agree. That person is definitely atypical though. Most Lebs get little to no NW European.

They most likely have more recent European ancestry. I doubt it's from the Crusades.

[Ajeje Brazorf]

I don't think he really had Norman ancestors, only has more Atlantic and 0% North_Sea.

[happycow]

delete post, misread

[Smeagol]

They even score East Sicilian and South Italian in their top 20. Interesting! This is obviously because of their increased European affinity.

Interesting they score that but Ashkenazi's not in their top 20.