Which country has the highest percentage of Med phenotype people

[Decius]

Which one? vote.

[Decius]

bump

[Smeagol]

According to Carleton Coon it's Portugal.

[kleenex]

I would have to say percentage wise Greeks. NE Greeks; Dinarid and Pontid Meds, Macedonians: Pontid Meds, Thessalians; Dinarid and Alpine Meds, Boetians; Dinarid, Alpine and Pontid Meds, Pelopnnesians; Atlanto Meds, Alpine Meds, Pontid Meds, Dinarid Meds. Cretans; Dinaro Meds, Atlanto Meds, Alpine Meds, East Meds, Armenoid types. Aegean Islands; Alpine Meds, Dinarid Meds, East Meds, Armenoid types. That's my 2 cents.

[Kouros]

I would have to say percentage wise Greeks

Average Greek is Alpine

[Corded]

I would have to say percentage wise Greeks. NE Greeks; Dinarid and Pontid Meds, Macedonians: Pontid Meds, Thessalians; Dinarid and Alpine Meds, Boetians; Dinarid, Alpine and Pontid Meds, Pelopnnesians; Atlanto Meds, Alpine Meds, Pontid Meds, Dinarid Meds. Cretans; Dinaro Meds, Atlanto Meds, Alpine Meds, East Meds, Armenoid types. Aegean Islands; Alpine Meds, Dinarid Meds, East Meds, Armenoid types. That's my 2 cents.

Greeks have some non med types. alpine, dinarid,etc. also pontid is not proper med type. sardinians and portugues are mainly gracile meds (pure med) and berid.

[Corded]

Portugal and sardinia

[guerrilla]

Iberia

Otherwise they would't have call it "Ibero-Insular" race

[guerrilla]

Portugal and sardinia

plausible option

[Catarinense1998]

Iberia countries.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Iberians score the least Mediterranean admixture (based on Eurogenes K15) out of all the Southern Europeans but by the power of magic we are the most textbook Mediterranian.

https://s31.postimg.cc/qbs00hhmj/med_admixture.png

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

They are also by far the most northwestern shifted out of all the options given:

https://s31.postimg.cc/ol8yyz58b/north_atlantid_admix.png

[Tietar]

Iberia

Otherwise they would't have call it "Ibero-Insular" race

Anyone with common sense can not say that a race with an area name is located at one end of an area

For me Iberians is the atlantic race with a lot of north and mediterranean influence, which is logical due to its location

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

With an average of 48.23% West Med and 17.48% East Med (performing a total of 65,71%), Sardinians are by far the most Mediterranian individuals in Southern Europe genetically speaking.

[Livin]

Spain and Portugal.
Greece major phenotype is Pontid witch is not clear med but more robust with alpine or Baltic traits.

[MinervaItalica]

Those countries have all different total population. More or less they have all large amount of Meds.

[Tietar]

Spain and Portugal.
Greece major phenotype is Pontid witch is not clear med but more robust with alpine or Baltic traits.

Why deny what the facts show?

Spain is the least Mediterranean of the south, it is located at one end of the Mediterranean Sea, away from most Mediterranean countries in genetic maps, Why insist on giving the Iberian race the name of Mediterranean? What logic does it have?

You can not change reality by use different denominations, and the reality is that iberia is far from the mediterranean countries

https://i.imgur.com/V9ObYYq.png

[Scipio Africanus]

http://i.imgur.com/qczng7o.png

[Livin]

Why deny what the facts show?

Spain is the least Mediterranean of the south, it is located at one end of the Mediterranean Sea, away from most Mediterranean countries in genetic maps, Why insist on giving the Iberian race the name of Mediterranean? What logic does it have?

You can not change reality by use different denominations, and the reality is that iberia is far from the mediterranean countries

https://i.imgur.com/V9ObYYq.png

Dude we are talking about genetics and phenotypes not like geography.

Iberia has atlantomed and gracile med witch is the 70% of population.

Greece has Pontid and east med while Italy has dinaromed and some atlantomed.

To be honest I don’t really consider atlantomed like original med type.

For me the original med is the Gracile (western med) witch is very rare in eas med area.

[FilhoV]

OP I don’t think is talking about genetics but phenotypes

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

OP I don’t think is talking about genetics but phenotypes

I know he is talking about phenotypes but you can't disassociate genotype, since the outcome is the combination of your genetic admixture.

[Bosniensis]

Lol No Turkey on List?

Turkey is 1.

[guerrilla]

Spain is the least Mediterranean of the south, it is located at one end of the Mediterranean Sea. Why insist on giving the Iberian race the name of Mediterranean?iberia is far from the mediterranean countrieshttps://i.imgur.com/V9ObYYq.png

It's actually the contrary.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4a/Passing_of_the_Great_Race_-_Map_4.jpg

H. G. Wells argued that across Europe, North Africa, the Horn of Africa, West Asia, Central Asia and South Asia, a Caucasian physical stock existed. He divided this racial element into two main groups: a shorter and darker Mediterranean or Iberian race and a taller and lighter Nordic race

[FilhoV]

I understand that part but I’m trying to say is if someone is 90% Swedish and 10% negroid for example then they are no longer part of subraces such as Hallstatt or etc

I perfer to use metrics an example I always get classified as a Gracile Mediterranid due to my pigmentation but here is the irony......I’m Bracyphalic which puts me at the Alpine category

My point is that these arbitrary classifications especially in anthrotardism filled forums will believe what they want regardless of facts.

Going by Coon places like Portugal are long headed Mediterranean types at rates of 90% which is a sack of shit as I was in Ponta Delgada recently and I started paying more attention to people and noticed many of them were in fact Alpines or in some cases Nordo-Meds

Just look at some of the Portuguese threads here and people classify them as Alpine or etc

[Livin]

Lol No Turkey on List?

Turkey is 1.

I agree that Turkey has a lot of meds.But I don’t consider east med as original med type.

East med is the type of med who lost the cromanoid traits compare to gracile and atlantomed.
East med has bigger lips,bigger almond eyes,he is more dark skinned compare to other med types and he is always dochilocephalic while gracile,Pontid and Also atlantomed can be meso.East med in general looks like a med with middle eastern(arabid) traits.

I am east med btw.

[Tietar]

It's actually the contrary.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4a/Passing_of_the_Great_Race_-_Map_4.jpg

H. G. Wells argued that across Europe, North Africa, the Horn of Africa, West Asia, Central Asia and South Asia, a Caucasian physical stock existed. He divided this racial element into two main groups: a shorter and darker Mediterranean or Iberian race and a taller and lighter Nordic race

painting a color map can be done by a monkey, this shows absolutely nothing

currently the height of Spanish and english is very similar, which does not coincide with a taller Nordic race and a short Mediterranean race.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_XpnN7fgn0pA/TSCK4NfFKJI/AAAAAAAAAag/QS327QL_36w/s1600/Screenshot_2.jpg

Those olds maps and studies must be in a museum, they're useless

[Corded]

Lol No Turkey on List?

Turkey is 1.

turks have a lot of non med types. like armenoid, alpine and turanid.

[gıulıoımpa]

i would say that Pure meds are rarer than Alpinized meds in both Greece and Italy

[decordoba]

I disagree with this map.

For Example: Bohemia = Czechia is Alpine marked; but the Czechs are in a large number Baltid, and they look not far from Nordid.
In Austria ist the Danube region Nordid marked; there are a part Baltid, a large number Alpine, and any Northwestern = Northwest European, who look not far from British.

[Veslan]

Portugal.

[nightrider+]

Iberians score the least Mediterranean admixture (based on Eurogenes K15) out of all the Southern Europeans but by the power of magic we are the most textbook Mediterranian.


When k15 gives you 2-5% SSA it's crap, otherwise it's the holy book.
This thread is in the anthropology section though, and the problem with most Iberians on here (and most members generally) is that they have the sikeliot idea of what the Mediterranean race represents (any Caucasoid with brownish skin basically) but this is not the case in original anthropology (regardless if you consider it outdated or not). Pique is a better Mediterranean example than Karagounis. Iberians are the European population where dolichocephaly (one of the most basic Med traits) is most prevalent.

[Autrigón]

pffff sorry but this is a boring question...a more interesting question would be which nothern/central/eastern countries have the highest percentage of meds?

Is like asking who is more nordic, Sweden or Norway?

Anyway I have voted Greece, I consider Greece the quintessence of the mediterranean culture and phenotypes,100% pure meds.

[Smeagol]

I know he is talking about phenotypes but you can't disassociate genotype, since the outcome is the combination of your genetic admixture.

We don't know which genes are responsible for which traits for the most part. A lot of DNA is junk DNA which doesn't even have an effect on phenotype. This is why you can have siblings of different phenotype for example.

[decordoba]

I have seen the photo of any guy - his phenotype was North-African - and he had just 5% North-African of his Autosomale DNA.

I have 45% West European and 26 % British Islands --- and my phenotype is Alpine Mediterran

[Xacal]

Iberia and Sardinia

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

When k15 gives you 2-5% SSA it's crap, otherwise it's the holy book.
This thread is in the anthropology section though, and the problem with most Iberians on here (and most members generally) is that they have the sikeliot idea of what the Mediterranean race represents (any Caucasoid with brownish skin basically) but this is not the case in original anthropology (regardless if you consider it outdated or not). Pique is a better Mediterranean example than Karagounis. Iberians are the European population where dolichocephaly (one of the most basic Med traits) is most prevalent.

Like you have said, anthropological studies on races are completly outdated. Why should I base myself on pseudoscience like "skull measuring" to form an idea of what a proper Mediterranean individual is?

How do I know if ancient Minoans are related to modern Greeks, per example? Is it by measuring their cephalic index like a scientist out of the ninenteeth century or by extracing their DNA and comparing their genomes and haplogroups? :picard1:

Pique is a better Mediterranean example according to whom, may you specify? In the real world people would more easily associate Karagounis with the Mediterranean sphere instead of Pique, there's really not much doubt about that.

K15 is not the holy book, it is just a calculator that I have picked. If you run any other, you will get the same consistency that Iberians have the least mediterranean admixture out of the southern europeans.

[Smeagol]

Like you have said, anthropological studies on races are completly outdated. Why should I base myself on pseudoscience like "skull measuring" to form an idea of what a proper Mediterranean individual is?

Because the Mediterranean Race is a physical type based on skull measurements and other physical traits. To be Mediterranean physically doesn't imply significant genetic relation with other Mediterranean types from other nations. (Though of course at least a small percentage will be shared).

[Watson]

Iberians score the least Mediterranean admixture (based on Eurogenes K15) out of all the Southern Europeans but by the power of magic we are the most textbook Mediterranian.

https://s31.postimg.cc/qbs00hhmj/med_admixture.png

don't forget to add 10% north african. than is what makes you look med the most.

[nightrider+]

Like you have said, anthropological studies on races are completly outdated. Why should I base myself on pseudoscience like "skull measuring" to form an idea of what a proper Mediterranean individual is?

How do I know if ancient Minoans are related to modern Greeks, per example? Is it by measuring their cephalic index like a scientist out of the ninenteeth century or by extracing their DNA and comparing their genomes and haplogroups? :picard1:

Pique is a better Mediterranean example according to whom, may you specify? In the real world people would more easily associate Karagounis with the Mediterranean sphere instead of Pique, there's really not much doubt about that.

K15 is not the holy book, it is just a calculator that I have picked. If you run any other, you will get the same consistency that Iberians have the least mediterranean admixture out of the southern europeans.

Are you actually serious? Science is democratic now? People gather and vote what is Mediterranean and what is not?
Anthropology isn't pseudo-science, nor is it outdated. What might be outdated is many of the taxonomic categories, but they were still based on rules and not whatever some internet bro-scientist could make up.
What's pseudo-science is labeling genomes as East Med or West Med and that's why you never see any professional study doing it.
Anthropology could tell you that Minoans were related to Sardinians before we knew what DNA is.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

don't forget to add 10% north african. than is what makes you look med the most.

Then I guess that by that logic the other refered populations are more Mediterranean looking, since they plot closer to North Africans than Iberians do. You just have to open a principal component analysis map.

[Decius]

Lol No Turkey on List?

Turkey is 1.

No. Southern Italy is the most med

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Are you actually serious? Science is democratic now? People gather and vote what is Mediterranean and what is not?
Anthropology isn't pseudo-science, nor is it outdated. What might be outdated is many of the taxonomic categories, but they were still based on rules and not whatever some internet bro-scientist could make up.
What's pseudo-science is labeling genomes as East Med or West Med and that's why you never see any professional study doing it.
Anthropology could tell you that Minoans were related to Sardinians before we knew what DNA is.

Bro-science is exactly what taxonomy is. Most of the categories are made up on the internet. People actually think they can properly classify someone just by looking at someone's picture on a computer screen. I get it as a pastime hobby but people shouldn't take it more seriously than that.

Labeling genomes is just a way of trying to simplify things even if it is not entirely accurate. Not everyone has a degree in genome biology. However, no matter what you name them, the pattern is the same. What difference it makes if it is named East Med or Aryan Unicorn component? At the end of the day when we sequence them and compare averages we will still get the same results: that they peak in the Levant and people from then on will start associating Aryan Unicorn component to that region.

[MinervaItalica]

No. Southern Italy is the most med

But Southern Italy isn't a country.

Seriously, talking about who has more Meds among countries with different total populations is ridiculous.

[Smeagol]

Bro-science is exactly what taxonomy is.

That's what internet taxonomy is.

[nightrider+]

Bro-science is exactly what taxonomy is. Most of the categories are made up on the internet. People actually think they can properly classify someone just by looking at someone's picture on a computer screen. I get it as a pastime hobby but people shouldn't take it more seriously than that.

Labeling genomes is just a way of trying to simplify things even if it is not entirely accurate. Not everyone has a degree in genome biology. However, no matter what you name them, the pattern is the same. What difference it makes if it is named East Med or Aryan Unicorn component? At the end of the day when we sequence them and compare averages we will still get the same results: that they peak in the Levante and people from then on will start associating Aryan Unicorn component to that region.

Establishing that there's a Mediterranean race is not bro-science. Nor is discovering the migrations of it in prehistoric times. By your logic and most people's here, in 100 years we 'll call Blacks Atlantids because France will be full of them.
Yes, you can't always do it through the monitor obviously but you can safely say that Juanfran is Mediterranean but Oliver Kahn isn't.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Establishing that there's a Mediterranean race is not bro-science. Nor is discovering the migrations of it in prehistoric times. By your logic and most people's here, in 100 years we 'll call Blacks Atlantids because France will be full of them.
Yes, you can't always do it through the monitor obviously but you can safely say that Juanfran is Mediterranean but Oliver Kahn isn't.

Establishing which nation is the most Mediterranean is highly subjective and ambiguous and falls into bro-science. Especially if not analyzed under a genetic scope.

Human y-dna haplogroups is the best way we have at the moment to understand and comprehend ancient human migrations, I already explained you that. It is not by measuring the human cephalic index neither by analyzing bustes and paintings...

[Kamal900]

..well, the question should be; who are the people today that are the most genetically med?

My results:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 38.10
2 West_Asian 22.04
3 Red_Sea 12.49
4 West_Med 11.90
5 North_Atlantic 6.58
6 Northeast_African 3.87
7 South_Asian 2.69
8 East_Asian 1.20


My total med genetic component is around like 50%.

[nightrider+]

Establishing which nation is the most Mediterranean is highly subjective and ambiguous and falls into bro-science. Especially if not analyzed under a genetic scope.

Human y-dna haplogroups is the best way we have at the moment to understand and comprehend ancient human migrations, I already explained you that. It is not by measuring the human cephalic index neither by analyzing bustes and paintings...

It's not subjective. You have the combination of dark pigmentation (as in brown hair/eyes), short stature and lower cephalic index by all accounts. And even going by genetics you have the most Neolithic ancestry after Sardinians and are the most related to them.

https://i.redd.it/zdw8ts4uh80y.png

[Voskos]

Bosnia-Croatia.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

It's not subjective. You have the combination of dark pigmentation (as in brown hair/eyes), short stature and lower cephalic index by all accounts. And even going by genetics you have the most Neolithic ancestry after Sardinians and are the most related to them.

https://i.redd.it/zdw8ts4uh80y.png

Care to explain how Iberians differ from Italians or Greeks in terms of pigmentation and height?

Sardinians are a population isolate. Even if we are the "closest", we are still quite distant as no Iberian clusters genetically with Sardinians, it doesn't even show up on the first 30 matches...Neolithic ancestry doesn't define who is med or not :picard1: Also the most common haplogroup in both Iberians and Sardinians is R1b. In Greece it is J2...an haplogroup that is actually correlated with ancient mediterranean civilizations, unlike R1.

[Aren]

Iberians score the least Mediterranean admixture (based on Eurogenes K15) out of all the Southern Europeans but by the power of magic we are the most textbook Mediterranian.

https://s31.postimg.cc/qbs00hhmj/med_admixture.png

One question, you think Ukrainians are about as Nordid and generally Northern European looking as Scandinavians? Cause Ukrainians and Scandos have about the same ratios of Anatolian farmer, Steppe and local HG.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

One question, you think Ukrainians are about as Nordid and generally Northern European looking as Scandinavians? Cause Ukrainians and Scandos have about the same ratios of Anatolian farmer, Steppe and local HG.

It doesn't work like that. First, I don't think the ratios are the same. Secondly, there was variety as well among people from the Steppe, Anatolia and Hunter-Gatherers, it is not like they were a bunch of people that were an exact copy of one another. When you analyze ancient samples from the same period\region you never get two that are exactly equal, there's always some (even if minor) genetic drift and they can plot at different distances on PCA maps.

Ukrainians are quite Nordid-like but not in the Germanic sense. They are more eastern\baltid shifted whereas Scandinavians are more western.

[Aren]

It doesn't work like that. First, I don't think the ratios are the same. Secondly, there was variety as well among people from the Steppe, Anatolia and Hunter-Gatherers, it is not like they were a bunch of people that were an exact copy of one another. When you analyze ancient samples from the same period\region you never get two that are exactly equal, there's always some (even if minor) genetic drift and they can plot at different distances on PCA maps.

Ukrainians are quite Nordid-like but not in the Germanic sense. They are more eastern\baltid shifted whereas Scandinavians are more western.

But you are trying to prove that it does indeed work like that by posting who is more "West Med" or "East Med". And yes the ratios are about the same yet Ukrainians and Scandos look very different, see how auDNA does not always correlate with phenotype?

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

But you are trying to prove that it does indeed work like that by posting who is more "West Med" or "East Med". And yes the ratios are about the same yet Ukrainians and Scandos look very different, see how auDNA does not always correlate with phenotype?

Those calculators are based on ancient samples and I used one based in modern population samples. Ancient DNA is often more degraded, resulting in lower coverage and more error-prone sequencing.

[nightrider+]

Care to explain how Iberians differ from Italians or Greeks in terms of pigmentation and height?
Greeks are a bit taller than either on average. Pigmentation is more or less the same, it depends on the region but Iberians tend to be a bit darker at the same latitude.



Sardinians are a population isolate. Even if we are the "closest", we are still quite distant as no Iberian clusters genetically with Sardinians, it doesn't even show up on the first 30 matches...Neolithic ancestry doesn't define who is med or not :picard1: Also the most common haplogroup in both Iberians and Sardinians is R1b. In Greece it is J2...an haplogroup that is actually correlated with ancient mediterranean civilizations, unlike R1.

Neolithic ancestry correlates with Mediterranean race, no question about it. It was with Neolithics that it became so prevalent in Europe. J2 is about 20% in Greece and it is related with later migrations from Caucasus/Anatolia, not first wave farmers but haplogroups won't tell you much about phenotypes anyway.

I really don't get what you are trying to say. Only that like most Iberians you take offense in being called Mediterranean for some reason I don't understand other than insecurity. Mycenaeans and Minoans were more Mediterranean than modern Greeks by all accounts. Does it look like it works in our favor?
You have presented basically no arguments other than dna, which then you disregarded because it didn't suit you (even though the source was actually a professional study). If anthropology is obsolete why do you even bother responding to this thread?

[Cristiano viejo]

Greeks are a bit taller than either on average. Pigmentation is more or less the same, it depends on the region but Iberians tend to be a bit darker at the same latitude.

Iberians darker than Greeks?? what are you smoking now?


I really don't get what you are trying to say. Only that like most Iberians you take offense in being called Mediterranean for some reason I don't understand other than insecurity.
Not our problem that you dont get it. Portugal has nothing to do with the Mediterranean, whatever you understand with this term, and half of Spain neither. Greece is 100% Mediterranean in every sense. Geographically, by architecture, by cuisine, by culture, even genetically more than Iberians, as Viriato posted.
I guess we could discuss eternally about phenotype and depending, again, what we understand by Mediterranean.

[nightrider+]

Iberians darker than Greeks?? what are you smoking now?


Not our problem that you dont get it. Portugal has nothing to do with the Mediterranean, whatever you understand with this term, and half of Spain neither. Greece is 100% Mediterranean in every sense. Geographically, by architecture, by cuisine, by culture, even genetically more than Iberians, as Viriato posted.
I guess we could discuss eternally about phenotype and depending, again, what we understand by Mediterranean.

The thread is in the anthropology section and insecure Iberians are derailing it once again. Go open one in the culture or food section or whatever and present us your case.

[Cristiano viejo]

The thread is in the anthropology section and insecure Iberians are derailing it once again. Go open one in the culture or food section or whatever and present us your case.

Neither our fault that you spread nonsense and we have to correct you.

[nightrider+]

Neither our fault that you spread nonsense and we have to correct you.

Yes, you corrected me with zero actual arguments (hint: "it is so because I say it" is not an argument).

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Greeks are a bit taller than either on average. Pigmentation is more or less the same, it depends on the region but Iberians tend to be a bit darker at the same latitude.

Greeks are not taller than Spaniards according to the the stats I have seen. They seem to be taller than Portugueses on average but where you draw the line? So if you're 3cm-5cm taller that means you're less Mediterranean than we are? What an impressive level of anthro-autism. And Iberians being darker than Greeks is based on what?

[QUOTE=nightrider+;5121893]
Neolithic ancestry correlates with Mediterranean race, no question about it. It was with Neolithics that it became so prevalent in Europe. J2 is about 20% in Greece and it is related with later migrations from Caucasus/Anatolia, not first wave farmers but haplogroups won't tell you much about phenotypes anyway.

I really don't get what you are trying to say. Only that like most Iberians you take offense in being called Mediterranean for some reason I don't understand other than insecurity. Mycenaeans and Minoans were more Mediterranean than modern Greeks by all accounts. Does it look like it works in our favor?
You have presented basically no arguments other than dna, which then you disregarded because it didn't suit you (even though the source was actually a professional study). If anthropology is obsolete why do you even bother responding to this thread?

I don't take any single offense in being called Mediterranean, I identify myself with the Mediterranean spectrum. I take offense when people base themselves on pseudoscience like "Iberians are darker than Greeks and therefore they are the most Mediterranean" type of argument taken out from someone's arse.

I have presented DNA as an argument, which is far more reliable than your rethoric. It is what people should be using first and foremost. Modern humans can not be modeled as Neolithic and therefore as "you score the most Neolithic hence you are the most Mediterranean" in that way because they wouldn't even correspond to one another if you compared a modern sample to one from that period. Neolithic ancestry is a vague concept.

[nightrider+]

I don't take any single offense in being called Mediterranean, I identify myself with the Mediterranean spectrum. I take offense when people base themselves on pseudoscience like "Iberians are darker than Greeks and therefore they are the most Mediterranean" type of argument taken out from someone's arse.

I have presented DNA as an argument, which is far more reliable than your rethoric. It is what people should be using first and foremost. Modern humans can not be modeled as Neolithic and therefore as "you score the most Neolithic hence you are the most Mediterranean" in that way because they wouldn't even correspond to one another if you compared a modern sample to one from that period. Neolithic ancestry is vague.

I never said "Iberians are darker than Greeks and therefore they are the most Mediterranean". You asked me about pigmentation and I responded with what studies on pigmentation hint at. Greek pigmentation is well withing Mediterranean spectrum anyway. It's other things that take them out of it, like higher CI, harsher/ more robust facial features, shorter/wider noses etc.

You didn't present DNA as an argument. Like I said before, you'll be calling negros Atlantids in 100 years the way you think. Is it really so hard to understand? East med for example contains a shit-ton of Caucasus ancestry. Caucasians are the most brachycephalic Caucasoids, they can't be called Mediterranean in an anthropological sense.

[Cristiano viejo]

Yes, you corrected me with zero actual arguments (hint: "it is so because I say it" is not an argument).

In fact I did. For third time not our fault that you avoided it.

[Dibran]

Unless there is a updated map, It would be Spain. If you group Sardinia in with Italy, than Italy.

https://s7.postimg.cc/bds4rk1i3/mediterranean_race_map_anthropology_map_by_schrodi nger_excidiu.png

[Cristiano viejo]

Unless there is a updated map, It would be Spain. If you group Sardinia in with Italy, than Italy.


Even if we think that map is correct, how could be Spain? look Portugal.

[Dibran]

Even if we think that map is correct, how could be Spain? look Portugal.

I always considered them the same people as Spanish, like Albanians and Kosovars. Or Bulgarians, and Macedonians. By border yes, it would be Portugal then.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

I never said "Iberians are darker than Greeks and therefore they are the most Mediterranean". You asked me about pigmentation and I responded with what studies on pigmentation hint at. Greek pigmentation is well withing Mediterranean spectrum anyway. It's other things that take them out of it, like higher CI, harsher/ more robust facial features, shorter/wider noses etc.

You didn't present DNA as an argument. Like I said before, you'll be calling negros Atlantids in 100 years the way you think. Is it really so hard to understand? East med for example contains a shit-ton of Caucasus ancestry. Caucasians are the most brachycephalic Caucasoids, they can't be called Mediterranean in an anthropological sense.

You didn't say it but you imply it. It's basically the same thing. There's a study that puts Portuguese next to Poles in terms of skin pigmentation and when it comes to light hair and light eyes slightly higher than Italian average. Can you find one for Greeks since you think this type of things is what defines what you are?

East Med on this specific calculator shouldn't be modeled as containing Caucasus, that is singled out on the West Asian compenent.

[Black Panther]

Tugas.

[nightrider+]

You didn't say it but you imply it. It's basically the same thing. There's a study that puts Portuguese next to Poles in terms of skin pigmentation and when it comes to light hair and light eyes slightly higher than Italian average. Can you find one for Greeks since you think this type of things is what defines what you are?

East Med on this specific calculator shouldn't be modeled as containing Caucasus, that is singled out on the West Asian compenent.

Skin pigmentation is more or less the same throughout Europe. Lighter skin came with Neolithics anyway. There was one study that had Crete as lighter than some northern Iberian region but then again Crete was lighter (at least in eye color) than mainland Greece according to Coon (even though more Med in cranial form).

Caucasian ancestry is all over the Middle East, these calculators can tell you things about modern population relations but not much more.

[Iloko]

Spain

[guerrilla]

turks have a lot of non med types. like armenoid, alpine and turanid.

Plenty of Middle Eastern, pseudo Eurasian, non-European looking people overall, yeah.

[Wrong]

I think South Italy and sardinia
Wrong for South Italy. More correct for Sardinia.

[Ouistreham]

Spain, obviously (including Portugal).
Italy has too much Alpinids (including Subnordids) and Dinarids (including Norids) and mixed types to qualify.

[Watson]

Then I guess that by that logic the other refered populations are more Mediterranean looking, since they plot closer to North Africans than Iberians do. You just have to open a principal component analysis map.

you are very stupid.

[Tooting Carmen]

Greeks.

[Aren]

Those calculators are based on ancient samples and I used one based in modern population samples. Ancient DNA is often more degraded, resulting in lower coverage and more error-prone sequencing.

Which ones do you mean? I didn't read all of it, but Eurogenes K15 and K13 are modern calcs. There are good high coverage ancient samples though.

[Cuore di Tenebra]

Maybe the reason why iberians are the most mediterranean or one of the most mediterranean despite their genetic is because of convergent evolution.

[Cristiano viejo]

I always considered them the same people as Spanish, like Albanians and Kosovars. Or Bulgarians, and Macedonians. By border yes, it would be Portugal then.

:twitch00:

[Damião de Góis]

Unless there is a updated map, It would be Spain. If you group Sardinia in with Italy, than Italy.

https://s7.postimg.cc/bds4rk1i3/mediterranean_race_map_anthropology_map_by_schrodi nger_excidiu.png

Portugal, Spain, Wales, Bulgaria, Southern Italy and parts of Ukraine and southern Russia are the core of the mediterranean race. Quality map.

[kleenex]

Portugal, Spain, Wales, Bulgaria, Southern Italy and parts of Ukraine and southern Russia are the core of the mediterranean race. Quality map.
Please explain the map in terms of percentages and what qualifies as Med. Are we talking phenotypes or genotypes and if were talking either how is possible that the Ukraine or Russia is Med? Why would South Jtaly be Med and not Greece? This map just doesn't make sense to me.

[Cristiano viejo]

Portugal, Spain, Wales, Bulgaria, Southern Italy and parts of Ukraine and southern Russia are the core of the mediterranean race. Quality map.

And dont forget: Grecia 0% Med :laugh2:

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

And dont forget: Grecia 0% Med :laugh2:

Lmao, Wales with more Mediterranean phenotypes than Greece. Denmark with same levels of western Albania xD

Coon's taxonomy and classifications, the most reliable scientific measure according to anthropological bro-science.

[Damião de Góis]

Please explain the map in terms of percentages and what qualifies as Med. Are we talking phenotypes or genotypes and if were talking either how is possible that the Ukraine or Russia is Med? Why would South Jtaly be Med and not Greece? This map just doesn't make sense to me.

I was being ironic, i don't think it's right either.

[Sikeliot]

Not Italy as a whole but parts of Italy would be the most Mediterranean.

I would say Portugal of the choices though.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Not Italy as a whole but parts of Italy would be the most Mediterranean.

I would say Portugal of the choices though.

And which country of these would you say that has the most Mediterranean admixture?

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?243718-Which-country-has-the-highest-Mediterranean-admixture

[nightrider+]

Please explain the map in terms of percentages and what qualifies as Med. Are we talking phenotypes or genotypes and if were talking either how is possible that the Ukraine or Russia is Med? Why would South Jtaly be Med and not Greece? This map just doesn't make sense to me.

This map looks like some poor translation of Coon's map but I'll try to explain. Greece (as in mainland) has strong alpine and dinaric influences along with the Mediterranean ones, this cannot be denied for anyone who has traveled around in it (Athens is not mainland Greece btw). A population can't be called truly Mediterranean with an average CI of 82-83. Northern and Western Black Sea was considered the nucleus of Pontic Mediterraneans (Eastern Meds related to Atlanto-Meds and West Asian Meds, named so by Russian anthropologists).
These threads always end in a clusterfuck though because you have people like Cristiano viejo who have the Sikeliot/Tooting Carmen idea of what a Mediterranean is (in an anthropoligical sense) and get anxious in the slightest hint that someone connects them to the Middle East (in their minds at least).

[Sikeliot]

And which country of these would you say that has the most Mediterranean admixture?

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?243718-Which-country-has-the-highest-Mediterranean-admixture

italy.

The issue is North Italy exists and brings down the average for the country.

[Cristiano viejo]

This map looks like some poor translation of Coon's map but I'll try to explain. Greece (as in mainland) has strong alpine and dinaric influences along with the Mediterranean ones, this cannot be denied for anyone who has traveled around in it (Athens is not mainland Greece btw). Northern and Western Black Sea was considered the nucleus of Pontic Mediterraneans (Eastern Meds related to Atlanto-Meds and West Asian Meds, named so by Russian anthropologists).
These threads always end in a clusterfuck though because you have people like Cristiano viejo who have the Sikeliot/Tooting Carmen idea of what a Mediterranean is (in an anthropoligical sense) and get anxious in the slightest hint that someone connects them to the Middle East (in their minds at least).

Cool story. You can continue trying to explain that stupid and nonsensical map of Coon where Greece is practically non-Mediterranean at all. Good luck.

[nightrider+]

Cool story. You can continue trying to explain that stupid and nonsensical map of Coon where Greece is practically non-Mediterranean at all. Good luck.

Actually it is quite a bit Mediterranean, if you can even read the map with your tiny Iberoid brain.

http://www.the-savoisien.com/blog/public/img8/Coon_Carleton_Stevens_The_Races_of_Europe.jpg

[Sikeliot]

Greeks are mostly Pontid, Atlanto-Med, Alpine, Dinaric.

The true Med type (Gracile Med) is only common in places like the Dodecanese.

[Cristiano viejo]

Actually it is quite a bit Mediterranean, if you can even read the map with your tiny Iberoid brain.

As bit Mediterranean as your typical low Greek IQ, hahaha, what a joke.

[nightrider+]

As bit Mediterranean as your typical low Greek IQ, hahaha, what a joke.

Anything to add other than shitposting? What does Mediterranean mean to you in an anthropological sense? Enlighten us.

[Cristiano viejo]

Anything to add other than shitposting? What does Mediterranean mean to you in an anthropological sense? Enlighten us.

Since you are one of the users that more talks and talks about the term Mediterranean, as if you were an expert, it is you who should do. I already did naming several things: geography, cuisine, architecture, climate, culture, genetics.

[Sikeliot]

I personally think in much of Greece, Dinaric and Alpine elements predominate over Mediterranean.

[Lavrentis]

This has been a fun thread. In one hand, the Arvanito-Bulgarian antagonizing his Iberian fellows (fellows, because if he shows his face, you’ll be surprised by how Iberian he looks), and on the other hand, people posting maps where south Ukraine is more Mediterranean than Greece



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[nightrider+]

Since you are one of the users that more talks and talks about the term Mediterranean, as if you were an expert, it is you who should do. I already did naming several things: geography, cuisine, architecture, climate, culture, genetics.

I did many times but you are incapable of learning obviously. We are talking about the guy who makes threads with the lightest Spaniards he can find and gets off to people classifying them as Atlantids after all.

[Cristiano viejo]

I did many times but you are incapable of learning obviously. We are talking about the guy who makes threads with the lightest Spaniards he can find and gets off to people classifying them as Atlantids after all.

How do you have the little shame to say such thing when it was you who avoided my definition of Mediterraneanism some posts ago, and again you do again?

And dont talk about shitposting after accusing me of making threads of my own people, it is quite pathetic by your part.

I insist: Greece is 100% Mediterranean by geography, by cuisine, by mentality, by architecture, by culture, by genetics, by phenotypes. Even by IQ.

[kleenex]

Actually it is quite a bit Mediterranean, if you can even read the map with your tiny Iberoid brain.

http://www.the-savoisien.com/blog/public/img8/Coon_Carleton_Stevens_The_Races_of_Europe.jpg

I realize Coon is criticized by a lot of folks but I believe he got it right about Greeks since I've noticed there are a lot Atlanto Meds which many consider Pontid Meds on this site. I'm not understanding Alpine in NE Greece since there is such a close connection with Dinarics of Albania. The Med in East Peloponnese is interesting. Are those Berid like Meds referencing Tskanonians?

[Livin]

Greeks are mostly Pontid, Atlanto-Med, Alpine, Dinaric.

The true Med type (Gracile Med) is only common in places like the Dodecanese.

The majority of Gracile meds in Greece have ancestry from Roman Empire,Francokratia,Byzantium etc and some venetian rulers.
I agree that the majority is Pontid and atlantomed.
East meds can be found on Pontic Greeks,Cretans,Cyprtiots and some local islanders.
But i am saying again East med is not crearly original med type.

[nightrider+]

I realize Coon is criticized by a lot of folks but I believe he got it right about Greeks since I've noticed there are a lot Atlanto Meds which many consider Pontid Meds on this site. I'm not understanding Alpine in NE Greece since there is such a close connection with Dinarics of Albania. The Med in East Peloponnese is interesting. Are those Berid like Meds referencing Tskanonians?

If you mean NW, Epirots (and Southern Albanians) are more Alpine than Dinaric. SE Peloponnese probably refers to Maniots and other Laconians. Tsakonians tend to be quite Dinaric from what I've seen, but don't take my word for it.

[Sikeliot]

The majority of Gracile meds in Greece have ancestry from Roman Empire,Francokratia,Byzantium etc and some venetian rulers.
I agree that the majority is Pontid and atlantomed.
East meds can be found on Pontic Greeks,Cretans,Cyprtiots and some local islanders.
But i am saying again East med is not crearly original med type.


East Med type is the type I associate with some Calabrese, Sicilians, and Dodecanese people. Gracile Med and East Med types are related and correspond geographically.

[Livin]

East Med type is the type I associate with some Calabrese, Sicilians, and Dodecanese people. Gracile Med and East Med types are related and correspond geographically.

East med has middle east traits(Arabic,orientalid)
Big almond eyes,bigger lips,more darker and hairier.To be more clear the big diffrence between them is that East med has lost his cromanoid traits.
Gracile med has round deep eyes,thin lips,smaller and more gracile characteristics,mesomorphic and Mesocephalic.

[kleenex]

If you mean NW, Epirots (and Southern Albanians) are more Alpine than Dinaric. SE Peloponnese probably refers to Maniots and other Laconians. Tsakonians tend to be quite Dinaric from what I've seen, but don't take my word for it.

My maternal grandmother was Tskanonian and I'm starting to think she was Berid looking although others have classified her as Alpine Med.

[nightrider+]

My maternal grandmother was Tskanonian and I'm starting to think she was Berid looking although others have classified her as Alpine Med.

I don't even know what the hell a berid is. Some say it's Javier Bardem, others say it's Michaloliakos. Can anyone even define it?

[ÁGUIA]

A med without the med sea, is like a surfer without a board. I resent that :cry2

[FilhoV]

Didn’t take long for this to go straight to shit

[Corded]

..