Estonians now Finland’s largest immigrant group

[The Ripper]

Estonians are currently Finland’s largest group of foreign-born residents. According to the Finnish Population Register Centre, there were 28,965 Estonian citizens living in Finland at the end of last year.

The Estonians narrowly overtook the Russians, who numbered 28,459 at the end of 2010.

“People come here from Estonia mainly as labour”, says Antti Saastamoinen of the police immigration unit. Saastamoinen is responsible for registering EU citizens living in Finland.

“Judging from the labour contracts, construction and cleaning are the biggest sources of employment. It is much rarer for professionals involving high levels of education to come to Finland to work from across the Gulf of Finland.”

Estonians are driven to seek work in Finland by their own country’s poor employment situation.

Urmas Soots, from Otespää, came to Finland to study already in 1990, when Estonia was still part of the Soviet Union.

“Then I just stayed, as the system became more familiar, and I felt good here. In Estonia the construction industry is so quiet that there would probably not be much work available. All contractors are either here or in Sweden”, says Soots, a 38-year-old construction engineer.

Estonia’s economy has picked up,, but employment is still in the doldrums. At the end of last year, 18.6 per cent of the population was without work.

Estonia’s unemployment rate for young people and the number of long-term unemployed was the third-highest in the whole EU.

After the economic crisis, wages were lowered in Estonia, and this year real wages are expected to decline further The average montly pay is now EUR 822.

Soots says that he enjoys life in Finland.

“If we compare things to Tallinn, a nervousness prevails over there. Everyone is going somewhere, and people are always in a big hurry to earn money. Things are somehow more peaceful here.”

In Finland he appreciates that society works, and takes care of the less advantaged. However, he feels that the tax rate “could be lower”.

“Those who are worse off need to be helped, but free travellers should be dropped”, Soots says.

He does not plan to become completely Finlandised.

“I am proud of my nationality, and Finnish citizenship would not bring any advantages.”

Antti Saastamoinen says that immigrants from Estonia usually come here first without their families.

“Most of those who are registered with us are individual men and women. Usually one of the parents in a family will come first, and the rest of the family will come later."

More than 1,000 Estonians have a Finnish spouse. It is more typical for a Finnish man to marry an Estonian than for a Finnish woman to do so.

Estonians who have not registered fall outside the population information.

The Finnish Embassy in Estonia estimates that up to 40,000 Estonians live in Finland. These do not include seasonal workers, who sail regularly between Helsinki and Tallinn.

HS International Edition (http://www.hs.fi/english/article/Estonians+now+Finland’s+largest+immigrant+group/1135264130988)

[Peerkons]

How do Finns "receive" Estonians?

[Don Brick]

How do Finns "receive" Estonians?

I can think of at least one Estonian individual who´s starting to get on my nerves... ;)

[Peerkons]

What is approximate number of muslims in Finland?
Looking at numbers it doesn't look that bad in Finland if Estonians are largest immigrant group.
As I remember, in Sweden immigrants form ~1 million.

[Äike]

Urmas Soots, from Otespää, came to Finland to study already in 1990, when Estonia was still part of the Soviet Union.

There's a typo, it should actually be Otepää. Otepää means bear' head, derived from ott(Estonian word for bear, although karu is the main word for bear in the Estonian langauge) and pea/pää(means head).


How do Finns "receive" Estonians?

Positively.

[Talvi]

I think it doesnt make Finns happy. I know many people who have had summer jobs in Finland... and being a construction worker in Finland does seem to be popular.

[Eldritch]

How do Finns "receive" Estonians?

Estonians are our cousins. They're the only Finnic folk besides us who have their own nation, and as such we got each others' back. You mess with Estonia, you mess with us. :cool:

[Peerkons]

There's a typo, it should actually be Otepää. Otepää means bear' head, derived from ott(Estonian word for bear, although karu is the main word for bear in the Estonian langauge) and pea/pää(means head).



Positively.

In Estonian this means that, that means that.
Yeah who cares about your shit?
Positively? Nice to hear, nevertheless you are not Finn.

[Peerkons]

Estonians are our cousins. They're the only Finnic folk besides us who have their own nation, and as such we got each others' back. You mess with Estonia, you mess with us. :cool:

Is that opinion of average Finn or nationalist Finn?

[Äike]

One article about the "superiority" of the Estonians:


Estonian immigrants are better off in Finland than those from Russia (http://www.hs.fi/english/article/1076154233715)

A study financed by the Academy of Finland has shown that the Estonian immigrants in Finland are better off compared with those immigrants who have come from Russia, and even compared with those former Russians who have a Finnish ethnic background, for instance the Ingrian Finns.

While three out of four Estonian male respondents work full time, fewer than half of the Russian or ethnic Finnish immigrants reported that they have found employment. Furthermore, over 70% of Estonians are free from the risk of alienation, whereas every second Russian and ethnic Finn is suffering from prolonged unemployment and low standard of living, as well as ill health.

Even in terms of language skills, Estonian immigrants are doing well. All of them speak Finnish at least moderately well, whereas more than 30% of the Russian male immigrants and every fifth Russian female think that they speak Finnish poorly.

While Estonian immigrants have Finnish friends and colleagues, a fifth of the Russian immigrants have no close Finnish friends, family members, or colleagues.
In general, immigrants have no problems with neighbours, but every second respondent reported teasing in schools. Day care staff came in for praise from the immigrants.

[Talvi]

Estonians are our cousins. They're the only Finnic folk besides us who have their own nation, and as such we got each others' back. You mess with Estonia, you mess with us. :cool:

Even if we take your jobs? :)

[Matritensis]

I met a Swede once who told me that Estonians have a better reputation in Sweden than Finns.I don't know about the accuracy of that statement.

[Peerkons]

One article about the "superiority" of the Estonians:
:thumb001:
However, this "superiority" is out of place.

[Äike]

In Estonian this means that, that means that.
Yeah who cares about your shit?
Positively? Nice to hear, nevertheless you are not Finn.

I don't know what triggered your hostile/trollish response to my post. But I can guess that you have some kind of inferiority complex towards Estonians.

[Eldritch]

Is that opinion of average Finn or nationalist Finn?

It would not be a great exaggeration to say that those are two ways of expressing the same thing. Anyway, you'll probably find that both the average/nationalist and even the exceptional, non-nationalist Finn feel that way.

[Peerkons]

I don't. But your explanation of something is out of place.
Fex. once you just started to explain your avatar. Who cares about that?
My point is that its useless to say something(additional info) if not asked.

[Simonsson]

Is there some sort of universal law insisting on everyone being laconic? Surely not!

[Eldritch]

Even if we take your jobs? :)

It's not your fault if our government wants to make it more profitable for employers to hire black-market Estonians.

[Eldritch]

I met a Swede once who told me that Estonians have a better reputation in Sweden than Finns.I don't know about the accuracy of that statement.

I think we have these dudes, as well as their colleagues, to thank for that:

http://www.ylioppilaslehti.fi/kuvat/2009/konna_06.jpg (http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_Jalutsi)

http://static.iltalehti.fi/uutiset/volvo_juttu231010STL_uu.jpg (http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matti_Markkanen)

http://www.alibi.fi/s/f/editor/images/1_2009/Valjakkala_1.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikita_Fouganthine)

(click images if you're interested)

[Talvi]

I met a Swede once who told me that Estonians have a better reputation in Sweden than Finns.I don't know about the accuracy of that statement.

I dont know much about it, but I once heard from Swede that a lot of respected/well-known/important Swedes there have Estonian roots.

[Eldritch]

I dont know much about it, but I once heard from Swede that a lot of respected/well-known/important Swedes there have Estonian roots.

Such as the current mayor of Malmö, Ilmar Reepalu.

[Talvi]

Such as the current mayor of Malmö, Ilmar Reepalu.

never heard of him but I just read that he was critical about sionism and now he is in conflict with the local jews.

[Eldritch]

never heard of him but I just read that he was critical about sionism and now he is in conflict with the local jews.

Yep, the mayor of Europe's rape capital basically is of the opinion (http://www.thelocal.se/25210/20100225/) that the J00z can blame themselves if they find themselves persecuted by the new Sverabian master race.

The same guy also believes (http://www.cphpost.dk/news/local/51034-malmoe-mayor-danish-xenophobia-bad-news-for-region.html) that due to Danish "xenophobia" the bestest and the brightest of immigrants steer clear of the entire Øresund area.

[The Ripper]

Don't forget Jüri Lina (http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jüri_Lina). :D

[Motörhead Remember Me]

Is that opinion of average Finn or nationalist Finn?

The average Finn is a nationalist.

[Motörhead Remember Me]

I met a Swede once who told me that Estonians have a better reputation in Sweden than Finns.I don't know about the accuracy of that statement.

Of course. There are only some, hmmm 15 000 Estonians in Sweden and 400 000 Finns. Among the 400 000 there are surely some assholes. Like me.

[The Ripper]

I'm also guessing that this "reputation" of Finns is largely based on the large migrations of the 1960's and 1970's, when Swedish factories filled up with labour from the poorer areas of Finland. Nowadays the Finnish immigrant minority seems quite established and integrated. Finnish names are a common sight in Swedish society. Even in the Swedish nationalist milieu. :)

[Motörhead Remember Me]

I always find the talk about how "integrated" or "assimilated" Finns are in Sweden off target and strange to reality.
Few seem to realise that there are bigger cultural differencies between Swedes and Danes or Swedes and Norwegians but never is there a discussion on how "integrated" or "assimilated" Danes/Norwegians are in Sweden.
There are simply no real cultural difference between Finns and Swedes.
The idea that Scandinavians are mutually interchangeable without any striking differencies but that Finns would be odd birds does not reflect my experiences and I have lived in all four countries.

In many aspects few nations are so strikingly similar as Finland and Sweden and the mindsets of Finns and Swedes are close.

[Moonbird]

Finland and Sweden have also never been in war with each other which is quite rare among European neighbours.

About Estonians, I would say that they are probably the most liked immigrant group in Finland today.

[Eldritch]

About Estonians, I would say that they are probably the most liked immigrant group in Finland today.

Either that or the Swedes. Of the groups of any significant size, that is.

[Peerkons]

The average Finn is a nationalist.

Then why did Finns let non-European immigrants in?

http://www.owned.lv/images/x3x9356fb51287e04d27fc84ecc2dfd7fbf.jpg

[Eldritch]

Then why did Finns let non-European immigrants in?

http://www.owned.lv/images/x3x9356fb51287e04d27fc84ecc2dfd7fbf.jpg

Because the current government is not formed by said average Finns. That sign is a fake, btw, in case you're wondering.

[Lenny]

5,351,000 : Finland population Jan 1st 2010 [Stats-Finland (http://www.stat.fi/tup/suoluk/suoluk_vaesto_en.html)]
28,965 Estonian citizens
28,459 Russian citizens
34,380 Refugees

0.54% : Estonian citizens as a share of Finland population
0.53% : Russian citizens as a share of Finland population
0.64% : Nonwhite Refugees


there were 28,965 Estonian citizens living in Finland at the end of last year.
A brief note: Not all "Estonian citizens" are Estonians, in the spirit of the German Passdeutsche. [Pass = Passport, Passport-Germans]. I wonder if this lowers the number of true Estonians any substantial amount.

Another problem with the above statistics, via Stat.fi (http://www.stat.fi/tup/suoluk/suoluk_vaesto_en.html):

Mother-Tongue of Finland residents, 2010
90.7% Finnish
5.4% Swedish
1.0% Russian
<0.1% Lappish
2.9% Others [0.5% Estonian?]

Are Russians 0.5%, or 1.0%?



Two interesting tables on foreigners:
http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/3735/finlandforeigners2010.png

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/4026/finlandnewcitizens.png

[The Ripper]

Are Russians 0.5%, or 1.0%?

Not all Russians living in Finland are Russian citizens.. :lightbul:

There are some 50-60,000 Russian-speakers in Finland but not all of them are Russian, a significant portion comes from other minority nationalities in Russia.

[Lenny]

What is approximate number of muslims in Finland?

It depends if you mean ethnic-Muslims or practicing Muslims or members of Muslim congregations.

Statistics Finland (http://www.stat.fi/til/vaerak/2009/01/vaerak_2009_01_2010-09-30_tau_007_en.html) records that 0.33% of Finland residents under-15 are "members of Islamic congregations".

[Lenny]

52,056 citizenships were granted by Finland to foreigners from countries not in the EU-27, 1990-2009. [Source (http://pxweb2.stat.fi/Dialog/varval.asp?ma=010_kans_tau_101_en&ti=Citizenships+granted+according+to+country+of+pr evious+citizenship+1990+-+2009&path=../Database/StatFin/vrm/kans/&lang=1&multilang=en)]

8,403 Africa
of which 5,051 were Somali

Jan 1 1994: ......0 Somalis held Finnish citizenship.
Jan 1 1997: ......3 Somalis held Finnish citizenship.
Jan 1 2000: 1,697 Somalis held Finnish citizenship
Jan 1 2003: 2,469 Somalis held Finnish citizenship
Jan 1 2007: 3,702 Somalis held Finnish citizenship
Jan 1 2010: 5,051 Somalis had been granted citizenship

15,324 Asia (incl. Turkey)

16,147 Russia

6,338 non-EU Europeans (excluding Russia and Turkey)


If every single one of these 50,000 non-EU-origin people given citizenship is still alive and in Finland, that is 0.9% of Finland's 2010 population. Naturally some will have died or emigrated, so it will be less.

[Lenny]

Not all Russians living in Finland are Russian citizens.. :lightbul:Some of the "Estonian citizens" could be Russian-speaking.


There are some 50-60,000 Russian-speakers in Finland but not all of them are Russian, a significant portion comes from other minority nationalities in Russia.
Members of "minority nationalities in Russia" all still have Russian passports/citizenship!

Is there any "historic minority" in Finland of Russian-speakers?

[The Ripper]

Is there any "historic minority" in Finland of Russian-speakers?

Yes, dating from the times of Grand Duchy, but it was never of any significant size. A number of White Russians escaped the turmoil of the Russian revolution to Finland as well.

[Motörhead Remember Me]

Then why did Finns let non-European immigrants in?

http://www.owned.lv/images/x3x9356fb51287e04d27fc84ecc2dfd7fbf.jpg

It's impossible to close country borders completely unless the country is North Korea.

[Motörhead Remember Me]

Not all Russians living in Finland are Russian citizens.. :lightbul:

There are some 50-60,000 Russian-speakers in Finland but not all of them are Russian, a significant portion comes from other minority nationalities in Russia.

I think that that 40 000 of the "Russians" in Finland are Ingrian Finns.

[Äike]

Some of the "Estonian citizens" could be Russian-speaking.

I would say that a considerable portion of "Estonian citizens" in Finland are Russians, just like in Estonia.

[Moonbird]

I think that that 40 000 of the "Russians" in Finland are Ingrian Finns.

A big part of the "Ingrian Finns" are actually more Russian than Finn. It's enough to have one Finnish grandparent to be counted as an Ingrian Finn.

[Eldritch]

A big part of the "Ingrian Finns" are actually more Russian than Finn. It's enough to have one Finnish grandparent to be counted as an Ingrian Finn.

The same "Ingrians" are the ones whining that they don't get served in Russian when they go to the social office to demand more bennies. :rolleyes:

[The Ripper]

The same "Ingrians" are the ones whining that they don't get served in Russian when they go to the social office to demand more bennies. :rolleyes:

Yup. While the idea of "return migration" was basically a good one, its questionable if you can say any "returning" really took place. What annoys me is that these Russians or at least Russified people still get called "Ingrian" in media for example. What is Ingrian about them, save one or two ancestors?

[Eldritch]

Yup. While the idea of "return migration" was basically a good one, its questionable if you can say any "returning" really took place.

^That.

I see these people in Myllypuro all the time: elderly Russians who've retired in Finland, thanks to an Ingrian grandma who's been in the ground for half a century. :rolleyes:

[The Ripper]

May be the whole thing was a KGB initiative? (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23768) ;)