Ancient Germanic R1b-U106 chieftain from Slovakia on GEDmatch

[Peterski]

Edit:

He could actually be an officer in the Roman army, not a tribal chieftain:

https://archaeologynewsnetwork.blogspot.com/2018/01/1600-year-old-roman-game-board-found-in.html#TQyaO0vHWqmvFkMg.97

Sample DA119, about 1600 years old (early 5th century AD), R1b-U106, GEDmatch kit: Z371280

https://s7.postimg.cc/k0p9bybhl/Screen_Hunter_2370_May._11_10.21.jpg

https://s7.postimg.cc/7815bzpl7/Screen_Hunter_2371_May._11_10.21.jpg

Potentially a Vandal but could be another Germanic tribe as well:

http://www.archaeology.ru/Download/Tejral/Acculturation.pdf

"At the same time, as the eclectic and heterogeneous cultural group south
of the Carpathians discussed above was formed, close cultural connections
between a south-Polish group of the Przeworsk-culture and the region on
the Upper Tisza and in north-western Transylvania began to take place.
A natural communication route between both regions using the high
Carpathian ridges in northern Slovakia, allowed a long-distance cultural
connection. The specific „North Carpathian Group" appeared in a brief
span of time round 400 on both sides of the Carpathian Passes. A large
part of the material culture shows relationships with the final stage of the
Przeworsk-culture, and some of it to the cultural environment south of the
Carpathians on the Upper Tisza and Transylvania. According to K. PIETA
(1987, 386 f.; 1991) the colonisation of sparsely-settled Carpathian foothills
in north Slovakia is connected with the migration of the Przeworsk-culture
people from the west, however, no graves have been found so far. The
occupation of the strategically situated hilltops with associated evidence of
industrial activities, give an impression that this region plays an important
role in the connections between the Vandalic tribes settled in south Poland
and Silesia and their tribesmen in the Carpathian basin."

[Aren]

Where he plots, together with the two Hallstatt samples aswell

https://i.imgur.com/yn8ByZM.png

[Peterski]

Eurogenes K15 results:

Population
North_Sea 42.67
Atlantic 28.90
Baltic 10.81
Eastern_Euro 3.98
West_Med 13.64
West_Asian -
East_Med -
Red_Sea -
South_Asian -
Southeast_Asian -
Siberian -
Amerindian -
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

76142 SNPs used in this evaluation

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 80.4% West_Norwegian + 19.6% French_Basque @ 7.46
2 94.1% Orcadian + 5.9% Sardinian @ 7.62
3 67.5% Southwest_English + 32.5% West_Norwegian @ 7.81
4 56% Orcadian + 44% Southwest_English @ 7.83
5 90.2% Orcadian + 9.8% Spanish_Galicia @ 7.9
6 91.2% Orcadian + 8.8% Spanish_Cantabria @ 7.9
7 92.1% Orcadian + 7.9% Southwest_French @ 7.94
8 93.6% Orcadian + 6.4% French_Basque @ 7.95
9 92.2% Orcadian + 7.8% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 7.98
10 92.3% Orcadian + 7.7% Portuguese @ 7.99
11 93.3% Orcadian + 6.7% Spanish_Aragon @ 7.99
12 92.1% Orcadian + 7.9% Spanish_Cataluna @ 8
13 78% West_Norwegian + 22% Spanish_Cantabria @ 8.01
14 79.8% West_Norwegian + 20.2% Spanish_Aragon @ 8.04
15 94.4% Orcadian + 5.6% Spanish_Extremadura @ 8.06
16 94.4% Orcadian + 5.6% Spanish_Murcia @ 8.06
17 94.8% Orcadian + 5.2% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 8.07
18 94.9% Orcadian + 5.1% Spanish_Valencia @ 8.07
19 91.4% Orcadian + 8.6% French @ 8.09
20 95.7% Orcadian + 4.3% Spanish_Andalucia @ 8.09

[Peterski]

Where he plots, together with the two Hallstatt samples

One Hallstatt sample was R1b-P312 by the way, so Celtic as expected. And Early Iron Age Lithuanian was N1c.

[Aren]

One Hallstatt sample was R1b-P312 by the way, so Celtic as expected. And Iron Age Lithuanian was N1c.

You know why the more northern Hallstatt sample isn't on Gedmatch? They are quite different, one more British like the other more central-south French.

[Peterski]

They are quite different, one more British like the other more central-south French.

Which confirms that British people are very Celtic indeed, Hallstatt-descended. I already knew that autosomally British-like people once lived in Central Europe when looking at some of Unetice culture's Bronze Age samples from Western Poland.

[Peterski]

You know why the more northern Hallstatt sample isn't on Gedmatch?

Not sure, I haven't looked at these Hallstatt samples yet. Here you can find Steppe samples from this study:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Rja6ZyjQrz3UK7_HTagkzczoOFjwcXOGdNOm9FC3Rik/edit#gid=0

[Peterski]

Where he plots, together with the two Hallstatt samples aswell

That is based on which calculator, K36? In K15 he has a lot of West Med, probably he wasn't fully Germanic.

But also coverage of this sample is not the best.

[Token]

Hallstatt-Bylany DA111 was U152+ L2+ and clustered closest to French. My theory has been confirmed, Irish Iron Age people were linguistically celticized Bell Beakers, now lets stop with the 'Irish are the purest celts' mouth diarrhea guys.

[Peterski]

Hallstatt-Bylany DA111 was U152+ L2+ and clustered closest to French. My theory has been confirmed, Irish Iron Age people were linguistically celticized Bell Beakers, now lets stop with the 'Irish are the purest celts' mouth diarrhea guys.

There is another Hallstatt samples which clusters with the British and Irish, so no, your theory has not been confirmed.

Oh and we also need La Tene samples as well.

[Aren]

That is based on which calculator, K36? In K15 he has a lot of West Med, probably he wasn't fully Germanic.

But also coverage of this sample is not the best.

Davids PCA 25

Btw the Hallstatt guy is somewhat close to the Bronze Age sample(RISE 471 dated 1500 BC) from Germany who I think was labeled as part of the Tumulus culture(ancestral to Hallstatt?)

Tumulus

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 45.22
2 West_Med 26.88
3 Baltic 19.02
4 East_Med 8.58
5 Sub-Saharan 0.3

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Southwest_French 6.74
2 Spanish_Cantabria 8.31
3 Spanish_Cataluna 8.66
4 French 8.96
5 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 9.8
6 Spanish_Galicia 10.25
7 Spanish_Valencia 10.37
8 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 10.69
9 Spanish_Aragon 10.74
10 Portuguese 11.04
11 Spanish_Murcia 11.63
12 South_Dutch 11.88
13 Spanish_Extremadura 12.34
14 Spanish_Andalucia 12.8
15 West_German 13.02
16 Southeast_English 14.03
17 Southwest_English 14.15
18 French_Basque 16.15
19 Orcadian 16.25
20 West_Scottish 17.19

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 78.2% Southwest_French + 21.8% Swedish @ 3.54
2 77.4% Southwest_French + 22.6% Norwegian @ 3.6
3 81.1% Southwest_French + 18.9% North_Swedish @ 3.64
4 70.5% Southwest_French + 29.5% Southeast_English @ 3.66
5 75.9% Southwest_French + 24.1% Danish @ 3.72
6 75.7% Southwest_French + 24.3% North_Dutch @ 3.75
7 74% Southwest_French + 26% Orcadian @ 3.83
8 76.7% Southwest_French + 23.3% North_German @ 4
9 71.5% Southwest_French + 28.5% Southwest_English @ 4.02
10 84.6% Southwest_French + 15.4% Southwest_Finnish @ 4.04
11 75.7% Southwest_French + 24.3% West_Scottish @ 4.11
12 75.9% Southwest_French + 24.1% Irish @ 4.12
13 87.5% Southwest_French + 12.5% La_Brana-1 @ 4.32
14 57.4% French_Basque + 42.6% Hungarian @ 4.36
15 87.4% Southwest_French + 12.6% Estonian @ 4.38
16 87.3% Southwest_French + 12.7% Finnish @ 4.4
17 68.4% Southwest_French + 31.6% South_Dutch @ 4.42
18 64.5% French_Basque + 35.5% South_Polish @ 4.48
19 53.6% French_Basque + 46.4% East_German @ 4.55
20 69.3% French_Basque + 30.7% Belorussian @ 4.56

Hallstatt

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 54.26
2 West_Med 23.98
3 Baltic 17.97
4 East_Med 3.77
5 Red_Sea 0.02

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Southwest_English 10.13
2 Southeast_English 11.5
3 West_Scottish 12.79
4 Orcadian 12.9
5 French 13.29
6 Irish 13.35
7 South_Dutch 13.4
8 Southwest_French 13.43
9 Spanish_Cantabria 14.57
10 Spanish_Cataluna 15.13
11 French_Basque 15.13
12 North_Dutch 15.21
13 West_German 15.23
14 Spanish_Aragon 15.5
15 Danish 15.78
16 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 16
17 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 16.59
18 Norwegian 16.91
19 Spanish_Valencia 17.07
20 Spanish_Galicia 17.09

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 52.9% French_Basque + 47.1% Norwegian @ 3.69
2 54.3% Orcadian + 45.7% French_Basque @ 3.97
3 61.1% Southwest_English + 38.9% French_Basque @ 4.04
4 57.5% Southeast_English + 42.5% French_Basque @ 4.05
5 50.1% French_Basque + 49.9% North_Dutch @ 4.08
6 56.2% French_Basque + 43.8% Swedish @ 4.13
7 51.1% French_Basque + 48.9% Danish @ 4.16
8 54.6% West_Scottish + 45.4% French_Basque @ 4.17
9 53.5% Irish + 46.5% French_Basque @ 4.43
10 62.3% French_Basque + 37.7% North_Swedish @ 4.87
11 53.8% French_Basque + 46.2% North_German @ 5.15
12 68.9% French_Basque + 31.1% Southwest_Finnish @ 6.27
13 60.8% Southwest_English + 39.2% Southwest_French @ 6.87
14 54% South_Dutch + 46% French_Basque @ 6.91
15 65.2% Southwest_English + 34.8% Spanish_Aragon @ 6.93
16 73.2% French_Basque + 26.8% La_Brana-1 @ 6.97
17 73% French_Basque + 27% Finnish @ 7.02
18 51.7% West_Scottish + 48.3% Southwest_French @ 7.11
19 56.5% West_Scottish + 43.5% Spanish_Aragon @ 7.26
20 73.8% French_Basque + 26.2% Estonian @ 7.31

[Peterski]

RISE471 scores a lot of "French" admixture in Eurogenes K36. In fact more than any other ancient sample.

[Peterski]

This is Hallstatt sample DA111, kit number - Z302274

Eurogenes K15:

Population
North_Sea 26.72
Atlantic 43.76
Baltic 12.12
Eastern_Euro -
West_Med 17.36
West_Asian -
East_Med -
Red_Sea -
South_Asian -
Southeast_Asian -
Siberian -
Amerindian -
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

84141 SNPs used in this evaluation

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 60.9% French_Basque + 39.1% Irish @ 7.61
2 62.4% French_Basque + 37.6% West_Scottish @ 7.83
3 65.3% French_Basque + 34.7% North_Dutch @ 8.06
4 64.7% French_Basque + 35.3% Orcadian @ 8.12
5 69.9% French_Basque + 30.1% West_Norwegian @ 8.18
6 70.3% French_Basque + 29.7% Swedish @ 8.22
7 60.9% French_Basque + 39.1% Southeast_English @ 8.26
8 65.9% French_Basque + 34.1% Danish @ 8.4
9 69.9% French_Basque + 30.1% Norwegian @ 8.47
10 60.3% French_Basque + 39.7% Southwest_English @ 8.53
11 65.1% French_Basque + 34.9% North_German @ 8.59
12 73.5% French_Basque + 26.5% North_Swedish @ 9.14
13 63.7% French_Basque + 36.3% South_Dutch @ 9.82
14 75.4% French_Basque + 24.6% Southwest_Finnish @ 9.83
15 70.4% French_Basque + 29.6% West_German @ 10.02
16 78.5% French_Basque + 21.5% Finnish @ 10.13
17 78.2% French_Basque + 21.8% La_Brana-1 @ 10.15
18 80.6% French_Basque + 19.4% Estonian @ 10.22
19 72.7% French_Basque + 27.3% East_German @ 10.41
20 83.4% French_Basque + 16.6% Lithuanian @ 10.81

[Aren]

Btw what would this guy be? 5th century Slovakia with a typical Germanic burial. An East Germanic speaker maybe?

[Peterski]

It's not like this Hallstatt sample is autosomally 100% French, Token. It is autosomally 60% French + 40% British/Irish.

Of course we are getting things backwards here, because this sample is ancestral to some part of British/Irish DNA.

[Peterski]

Btw what would this guy be? 5th century Slovakia with a typical Germanic burial. An East Germanic speaker maybe?

Probably Vandal, East Germanic. Vandals came there from Poland. But he could also be some local type of Germanic.

[Aren]

Probably Vandal, East Germanic But based on K36 he is similar to modern North Dutch and Frisians.

So all Germanic people were originally similar to modern Northern Dutch, Frisians and perhaps Danes.

Modern variation that we see in Germanic populations is caused entirely by Non-Germanic admixtures.

In other words, if you speak Germanic and are autosomally Non-Frisian, then you are not fully Germanic.

Was the case with the Bavarians from the same period aswell. And the Anglo-Saxon. Though I think some of them plotted with South Scandinavians. However all of these were West Germanic, we don't have Roman Era North Germanics yet I believe.

[Peterski]

Yeah but I edited that post because this conclusion shouldn't be based on a small number of samples.

A noble chieftain could be more pure-blooded than the general population, which could be more mixed.

[XenophobicPrussian]

This is Hallstatt sample DA111, kit number - Z302274

Eurogenes K15:

Population
North_Sea 26.72
Atlantic 43.76
Baltic 12.12
Eastern_Euro -
West_Med 17.36
West_Asian -
East_Med -
Red_Sea -
South_Asian -
Southeast_Asian -
Siberian -
Amerindian -
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

84141 SNPs used in this evaluation

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 60.9% French_Basque + 39.1% Irish @ 7.61
2 62.4% French_Basque + 37.6% West_Scottish @ 7.83
3 65.3% French_Basque + 34.7% North_Dutch @ 8.06
4 64.7% French_Basque + 35.3% Orcadian @ 8.12
5 69.9% French_Basque + 30.1% West_Norwegian @ 8.18
6 70.3% French_Basque + 29.7% Swedish @ 8.22
7 60.9% French_Basque + 39.1% Southeast_English @ 8.26
8 65.9% French_Basque + 34.1% Danish @ 8.4
9 69.9% French_Basque + 30.1% Norwegian @ 8.47
10 60.3% French_Basque + 39.7% Southwest_English @ 8.53
11 65.1% French_Basque + 34.9% North_German @ 8.59
12 73.5% French_Basque + 26.5% North_Swedish @ 9.14
13 63.7% French_Basque + 36.3% South_Dutch @ 9.82
14 75.4% French_Basque + 24.6% Southwest_Finnish @ 9.83
15 70.4% French_Basque + 29.6% West_German @ 10.02
16 78.5% French_Basque + 21.5% Finnish @ 10.13
17 78.2% French_Basque + 21.8% La_Brana-1 @ 10.15
18 80.6% French_Basque + 19.4% Estonian @ 10.22
19 72.7% French_Basque + 27.3% East_German @ 10.41
20 83.4% French_Basque + 16.6% Lithuanian @ 10.81
Is he from the same area as the Irish-like Celt or more southernly?

I think central Europe was a mix of Basque/SW-French like people and Bell Beaker/Unetice people(who were previously oversampled because they were the elites and most ancient DNA, especially the earlier studies, comes from elite graves), with the Basque/SW-French like people being a majority. We definitely see this in Bell Beaker samples in Hungary, some of the medieval Bavarians, the Roman Bavarian, that Tumulus sample and that modern West/South Germans have a southernly shift from Irish and Bell Beakers, especially when considering you still have to account for later Germanic/Slavic migrations.

Also, even the WEZ samples from Mecklenburg had Basque/SW-French like individuals. Unlikely they were migrants/mercenaries from Spain or w/e, had to be from central Europe.

So, probably turns out that guy on this forum raving about Celts being Basques was probably right, lol.

[Peterski]

we don't have Roman Era North Germanics yet I believe.

We do have one, RISE174 from Sweden, dated to 427-611 AD, kit number F999943.

Eurogenes K15:

Population
North_Sea 40.24
Atlantic 31.48
Baltic 16.78
Eastern_Euro 10.88
West_Med 0.28
West_Asian -
East_Med -
Red_Sea -
South_Asian -
Southeast_Asian -
Siberian -
Amerindian 0.34
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

84660 SNPs used in this evaluation

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Danish 8.91
2 North_Dutch 9.13
(...)

[Peterski]

Is he from the same area as the Irish-like Celt or more southernly?

This one is from Lovosice in Czech Republic, I haven't checked where the other Hallstatt sample is from:

Sample: DA111
Region: Lovosice, Czech Republic
Radiocarbon 14C date: 836-780 calBC
Population label: Hallstatt-Bylany Culture

Maybe there were genetic differences between people from different subdivisions of Hallstatt culture ?

[Peterski]

He could actually be an officer in the Roman army, not a tribal chieftain:

https://archaeologynewsnetwork.blogspot.com/2018/01/1600-year-old-roman-game-board-found-in.html#TQyaO0vHWqmvFkMg.97

[Aren]

We do have one, RISE174 from Sweden, dated to 427-611 AD, kit number F999943.

Eurogenes K15:

Population
North_Sea 40.24
Atlantic 31.48
Baltic 16.78
Eastern_Euro 10.88
West_Med 0.28
West_Asian -
East_Med -
Red_Sea -
South_Asian -
Southeast_Asian -
Siberian -
Amerindian 0.34
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

84660 SNPs used in this evaluation

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Danish 8.91
2 North_Dutch 9.13
(...)

It's uncertain though if he/she was a Germanic speaker.

[celticdragongod]

Edit:

He could actually be an officer in the Roman army, not a tribal chieftain:

https://archaeologynewsnetwork.blogspot.com/2018/01/1600-year-old-roman-game-board-found-in.html#TQyaO0vHWqmvFkMg.97

Sample DA119, about 1600 years old (early 5th century AD), R1b-U106, GEDmatch kit: Z371280

He seems more Celtic than Germanic:


puntDNAL K13 Global Oracle results:
puntDNAL K13 Oracle

Kit Z371280

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 NE_Europe 51.77
2 SW_Europe 40.78
3 West_Asia 5.99
4 SW_Asia 0.71
5 West_Africa 0.64
6 SE_Asia 0.1

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Orcadian 5.98
2 Irish 6.2
3 Utahn_European 6.21
4 Scottish 6.6
5 English 6.8
6 Belgian 7.42
7 German_South 8.23
8 Norwegian 8.46
9 German_North 9.21
10 Swedish 9.93
11 French 10.15
12 Hungarian 11
13 Slovene 11.67
14 Slovak 12.11
15 Croatian 12.52
16 Ukrainian 12.7
17 Bosnian 15.34
18 Belarusian 15.36
19 Moldavian 15.91
20 Serbian 17.56