150 of Unity: happy birthday Italy!

[Foxy]

So on March 17th Italy will make 150 years of unity. I plan to go to Rome for the celebration. Have you got any information about the program?

Anyway in this thread I'd like to celebrate the long history of our country. Any dedication, pictures, video will be welcome and fuck Lega Nord! :D

This is from me, symbolic song:

nVngOIHSVuI

Italian

Va, pensiero, sull'ali dorate;
va, ti posa sui clivi, sui colli,
ove olezzano tepide e molli
l'aure dolci del suolo natal!

Del Giordano le rive saluta,
di Sionne le torri atterrate...
Oh mia patria sì bella e perduta!
Oh membranza sì cara e fatal!

Arpa d'or dei fatidici vati,
perché muta dal salice pendi?
Le memorie nel petto raccendi,
ci favella del tempo che fu!

O simile di Sòlima ai fati
traggi un suono di crudo lamento,
o t'ispiri il Signore un concento
che ne infonda al patire virtù

English translation

Fly, thought, on wings of gold;
go settle upon the slopes and the hills,
where, soft and mild, the sweet airs
of our native land smell fragrant!

Greet the banks of the Jordan
and Zion's toppled towers...
Oh, my country so lovely and lost!
Oh, remembrance so dear and so fraught with despair!

Golden harp of the prophetic seers,
why dost thou hang mute upon the willow?
Rekindle our bosom's memories,
and speak of times gone by!

Mindful of the fate of Jerusalem,
either give forth an air of sad lamentation,
or else let the Lord imbue us
with fortitude to bear our sufferings!

[Foxy]

The meaning of the colour

Green: colour of hope, of the natural rights and of the mediterranean vegetation.

White: colour of catholicism, of purity, of the Alps and of their famous glaciers.

Red: colour of the blood of the people who have died for Italy.

These three colours also appeared in the Dante's Commedy, where Beatrice appears wearing a red and white dress, with a green mantel. These three colours are indeed the colours of the theological virtues (Green-hope, white-faith, red-charity). The colours rapresent therefore also the long literarian tradition of the country.

The three strips

The three vertical strips are inspired by the French flag, as Italy adopts the same ideals of the French revolution: freedom, eguality and brotherood.

[Magister Eckhart]

Remember what the colours were before the House of Savoy.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/52/Banner_of_the_Carboneria.png/800px-Banner_of_the_Carboneria.png

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/36/Giuseppe_Garibaldi_portrait2.jpg

[Óttar]

Alas, America is older than Germany AND Italy! :D ;)

[Foxy]

Alas, America is older than Germany AND Italy! :D ;)

The funny thing is that Germans joke about the fact that Italy was united so late and it is still divided when Germany was united 10 years after Italy and it is the only one of the two using a federal system. :rolleyes:

[Peyrol]

Alas, America is older than Germany AND Italy! :D ;)

we were divided for a long time politically, but united in genetics, culture, roman heritage and art, and also in Christianity...

[Peyrol]

Remember what the colours were before the House of Savoy.



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bc/Flag_of_the_Napoleonic_Kingdom_of_Italy.svg/500px-Flag_of_the_Napoleonic_Kingdom_of_Italy.svg.png

[SaxonCeorl]

Carta della Fondazione d'Italia

http://www.emersonkent.com/images/italy_1815_1870.jpg

Roma è ostinato e l'ultimo :D

[Wyn]

Alas, America is older than Germany AND Italy! :D ;)

And you're all just a bunch of n00bs to England (born AD 927, or earlier depending on your reckoning). :D

[Magister Eckhart]

You know it just occurred to me but Italy didn't really fully unite until 1870 when Lazio was finally wrested from the Church and became part of Italy. Even today, is Italy united? I mean, Corsica is in French hands, San Marino is a hold-out, and the Vatican has been legitimised by treaty.

Thoughts from the Italians?

[Gamera]

I posted this before, but here it goes again, a great spot for the occasion :D:

u2GeoUi5rs4

[Peyrol]

You know it just occurred to me but Italy didn't really fully unite until 1870 when Lazio was finally wrested from the Church and became part of Italy. Even today, is Italy united? I mean, Corsica is in French hands, San Marino is a hold-out, and the Vatican has been legitimised by treaty.

Thoughts from the Italians?

Conventional starting of "Unity" is after the coronation as King of Italy of Vittorio Emanuele, "By the will of the people and of God".
This is Italy in 1861

http://www.giuseppina.org/nostrolibro/classe5/storia5/lavorodalXVsec/italia1861.jpg



Various governments have tried to recover the lands inhabited by Italians until 1954 ... for example, during the early years of the twentieth century in Switzerland developed a strong movement that wanted the annexation of the whole southern part of the country to Italy...over a period of time ranging from 1919 to 1954, Istria and the Dalmatian has been part of the Italian state (not as a colony, but just as Italian metropolitan territory), as well as Malta, the Greek islands of Zakhynthos, Ithaka, Kefalonia and Corfu ....Corsica become italian from 1939 to 1945, but in the early '70 years, the island has developed a strong anti-French and pro-Italian movement, which is present even today...

[The Journeyman]

Happy Birthday Italy!

Please return Sud-Tirol to Austria now.

[Peyrol]

Happy Birthday Italy!

Please return Sud-Tirol to Austria now.

We fought (and won) a World War to get it, i don't see why we should give back.

[Murphy]

Return the lands that rightfully belong to the Pope of Rome plzkthx.

[Peyrol]

Return the lands that rightfully belong to the Pope of Rome plzkthx.

we will immediately do it, and also we give back to the Etruscans the Tuscany...




....ooops...Etruscans are extinct, we killed or assimilated them all....:(

[Magister Eckhart]

we will immediately do it, and also we give back to the Etruscans the Tuscany...




....ooops...Etruscans are extinct, we killed or assimilated them all....:(

Not so of the pope, though the request to "give back the papal states" seems a bit absurd since the Papacy seemed happy enough with the Lateran Treaty.


Happy Birthday Italy!

Please return Sud-Tirol to Austria now.

That would be difficult with all of the cultural genocide conducted by Italy between Tirol's acquisition and the present day-- most of Italian Tirol is actually quite Italian today.


We fought (and won) a World War to get it, i don't see why we should give back.

More accurately: you betrayed your allies to opportunistically join up with the other side when you figured out that you could get your hands on Tirol by siding against Austria. I wouldn't be too proud of acquiring South Tirol. But then again as I recall it didn't bother the people from Tirol too much either way. I have a feeling they would have been happy just to be independent (there was never much German or Italian nationalism in the region).

[Peyrol]

Not so of the pope, though the request to "give back the papal states" seems a bit absurd since the Papacy seemed happy enough with the Lateran Treaty.



That would be difficult with all of the cultural genocide conducted by Italy between Tirol's acquisition and the present day-- most of Italian Tirol is actually quite Italian today.



More accurately: you betrayed your allies to opportunistically join up with the other side when you figured out that you could get your hands on Tirol by siding against Austria. I wouldn't be too proud of acquiring South Tirol. But then again as I recall it didn't bother the people from Tirol too much either way. I have a feeling they would have been happy just to be independent (there was never much German or Italian nationalism in the region).

I was ironic ...:rolleyes:


and in any case, the switch of alliance was before we started fighting (Italy start the war on 25/5/1915, for one year remain neutral...;))... we won the war alone, with 663,000 deaths.

And if the southtirolers dislikes Italy (I hope you're not among those stupids who consider the Italian "Negroes"), no one forbids him to cross the border and go to Austria

[Magister Eckhart]

I was ironic ...:rolleyes:


and in any case, the switch of alliance was before we started fighting (Italy start the war on 25/5/1915, for one year remain neutral...;))... we won the war alone, with 663,000 deaths.

And if the southtirolers dislikes Italy (I hope you're not among those stupids who consider the Italian "Negroes"), no one forbids him to cross the border and go to Austria

Apologies for the misunderstanding.

The abandonment of alliance before Italy entered the war doesn't really make it any better - you had an alliance with Austria and Germany that you refused to honour when the war began, and then when you finally made up your mind not to sit the war out, you ignored all the treaties you held and threw in your lot with the enemy of your former allies in order to take land away from your allies. I don't know what else to call that other than betrayal. I don't damn all of Italian history or the Italian nation for it, but it's not a highpoint in Italian foreign policy.

I don't think South Tirolers really care one way or another--if they did we'd have seen more of a Yugoslav situation there in the international upheaval of the late 1980s. I think, honestly, Tirolers identify as Tirolers even today but are happy to accept economic benefit from whomever rules them. However, this is also affected by a great deal of cultural genocide that went on through "Italianisation" of native German-speakers and Tirolian culture during the Fascist era (and beyond, actually). Many South Tirolers did move north because of this, but just as many just started speaking Italian.

Don't get me wrong I'm not necessarily drawing out some kind of condemnation of the Italian nation because of this, but I also don't think you can ignore what are essential historical facts. Nationalism should deal with reality rather than just ignoring it or twisting it to serve nationalist ends. I believe this is true because, honestly, history generally serves nationalist ends on its own.

[Foxy]

Carta della Fondazione d'Italia

http://www.emersonkent.com/images/italy_1815_1870.jpg

Roma è ostinato e l'ultimo :D

Rome was conquered pretty late becouse a fat old man was sitting in the Vatican Chair asking half Europe to go to help him.


we will immediately do it, and also we give back to the Etruscans the Tuscany...




....ooops...Etruscans are extinct, we killed or assimilated them all....:(

Considering the genetical studied, the first is more probable...



That would be difficult with all of the cultural genocide conducted by Italy between Tirol's acquisition and the present day-- most of Italian Tirol is actually quite Italian today.



I have a feeling they would have been happy just to be independent (there was never much German or Italian nationalism in the region).

Indeed South Tirol is indipendent. It is federal, differently from other 15 Italian regions. The only federal regions in Italy are Sudtirol, Friuli, Valle D'Aosta, Sicily and Sardinia becouse they have specific cultural traits that Italy is protecting. Inform a bit better, Sudtirol rapresents itself with autonomy also in the EU for matters that interest only Sudtirol.

[Magister Eckhart]

Indeed South Tirol is indipendent. It is federal, differently from other 15 Italian regions. The only federal regions in Italy are Sudtirol, Friuli, Valle D'Aosta, Sicily and Sardinia becouse they have specific cultural traits that Italy is protecting. Inform a bit better, Sudtirol rapresents itself with autonomy also in the EU for matters that interest only Sudtirol.

So they would prefer to be independent, and indeed there is very little nationalism - German or Italian - there. Socially, however, I think you'll find they all speak Italian and conform to Italian national laws and have Italian flags on their government buildings. Therefore, I think we probably agree on this one.

Anyway, Veleda, I'm especially interested to hear your opinion on my earlier question regarding San Marino and Corsica.

[Foxy]

So they would prefer to be independent, and indeed there is very little nationalism - German or Italian - there. Socially, however, I think you'll find they all speak Italian and conform to Italian national laws and have Italian flags on their government buildings. Therefore, I think we probably agree on this one.

Anyway, Veleda, I'm especially interested to hear your opinion on my earlier question regarding San Marino and Corsica.

No in Sudtirol people speak German and to work in a public place you must speak both the languages. In Sudtirol people are bilingual, the German families speak Italian as second language and Italian families German as second languages, but in schools and public places they speak both (sources: I have relatives in Bozen one of them taught me a bit of German indeed :D).

San Marino is like Luxemburg, Andorra or Monaco: an indipendent kingdom since Middle Age. Actually it is convenient for Italians that it remains indipendent becouse in San Marino you don't pay IVA (a tax on products) so things are cheaper there.

Sardinia belonged to Tuscany until the XVIII century, when Tuscany sold it to France. It has been sold, so it legally passed under France for will of both the countries.

[Magister Eckhart]

No in Sudtirol people speak German and to work in a public place you must speak both the languages. In Sudtirol people are bilingual, the German families speak Italian as second language and Italian families German as second languages, but in schools and public places they speak both (sources: I have relatives in Bozen one of them taught me a bit of German indeed :D).

I'll take your word for it.


San Marino is like Luxemburg, Andorra or Monaco: an indipendent kingdom since Middle Age. Actually it is convenient for Italians that it remains indipendent becouse in San Marino you don't pay IVA (a tax on products) so things are cheaper there.

Sardinia belonged to Tuscany until the XVIII century, when Tuscany sold it to France. It has been sold, so it legally passed under France for will of both the countries.

It's funny how these little medieval kingdoms and republics in Europe are basically like Indian reservations here in the US.

I find it interesting that you respect the business deal in regards to Corsica, since the Church acquired most of its land (that it didn't inherit) through purchase--and it seems to me that even inheriting land is very little different from purchase. Suppose, for example, that Milan or Trent were sold to Switzerland or Austria; would you hold a similar opinion?

I'm not trying to bait you, either-- I'm genuinely surprised by your feeling on Corsica.

[Foxy]

I'll take your word for it.



It's funny how these little medieval kingdoms and republics in Europe are basically like Indian reservations here in the US.

I find it interesting that you respect the business deal in regards to Corsica, since the Church acquired most of its land (that it didn't inherit) through purchase--and it seems to me that even inheriting land is very little different from purchase. Suppose, for example, that Milan or Trent were sold to Switzerland or Austria; would you hold a similar opinion?

I'm not trying to bait you, either-- I'm genuinely surprised by your feeling on Corsica.

My feeling is that Corsica should come back to Italy if Corses want it after having been sold.

About Trentino-Sudtirol, you can read this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trentino-Alto_Adige/S%C3%BCdtirol#Government_and_politics

[Wyn]

I'll take your word for it.


This map - ten years out of date, but surely useful nonetheless - may be of some interest to you:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1d/Language_distribution_in_South_Tyrol%2C_Italy_2001 .png

[Magister Eckhart]

This map - ten years out of date, but surely useful nonetheless - may be of some interest to you:



I said I believed her. I suppose I assumed after Mussolini's Italianisation efforts that the German language kind of faded out, but it appears I was wrong.

[Wyn]

I said I believed her.

And...?


I suppose I assumed after Mussolini's Italianisation efforts that the German language kind of faded out, but it appears I was wrong.

Apparently so.

Anyway, that just under 55% of people in South Tyrol are against the province remaining part of Italy is very interesting.

[Magister Eckhart]

And...?

I thought you were posting the map because I came off as sceptical.


Apparently so.

Anyway, that just under 55% of people in South Tyrol are against the province remaining part of Italy is very interesting.

Really? That is interesting.

[Wyn]

I thought you were posting the map because I came off as sceptical.

I was posting it because I thought it relevant to the discussion. ;) Take it easy Waggo. :thumb001:


Really? That is interesting.

Aye, but only German speakers were asked. Wiki provides this source (http://www.suedtiroler-freiheitskampf.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=38), which unfortunately is entirely in German.

According to Wiki the results of a poll conducted in the region found that 45.33% favoured continued union with Italy and 54.67% opposed it (further broken down into 33.40% in favour of independence and 21.27% in favour of reunification with Austria).

[Magister Eckhart]

I was posting it because I thought it relevant to the discussion. ;) Take it easy Waggo. :thumb001:



Aye, but only German speakers were asked. Wiki provides this source (http://www.suedtiroler-freiheitskampf.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=38), which unfortunately is entirely in German.

According to Wiki the results of a poll conducted in the region found that 45.33% favoured union with Italy and 54.67% opposed it (further broken down into 33.40% in favour of independence and 21.27% in favour of reunification with Austria).

Luckily, I can read German :D. It looks like an interesting site. I love that very traditionally south German jacket the one fellow is wearing. I rather would like to have one of those...

At any rate, my understanding even from this is that the Tirolers don't want to join up with Austria but want to be their own independent state, which is pretty much consistent with what I thought was the case (which I suppose is good news considering I was wrong about the number of German speakers).

Thanks for the link

[Peyrol]

Rome was conquered pretty late becouse a fat old man was sitting in the Vatican Chair asking half Europe to go to help him.



Considering the genetical studied, the first is more probable...



Indeed South Tirol is indipendent. It is federal, differently from other 15 Italian regions. The only federal regions in Italy are Sudtirol, Friuli, Valle D'Aosta, Sicily and Sardinia becouse they have specific cultural traits that Italy is protecting. Inform a bit better, Sudtirol rapresents itself with autonomy also in the EU for matters that interest only Sudtirol.

Ecco, non volevo dirglielo in mezzi termini, meno male che mi hai preceduto...:D

[Peyrol]

Apologies for the misunderstanding.

The abandonment of alliance before Italy entered the war doesn't really make it any better - you had an alliance with Austria and Germany that you refused to honour when the war began, and then when you finally made up your mind not to sit the war out, you ignored all the treaties you held and threw in your lot with the enemy of your former allies in order to take land away from your allies. I don't know what else to call that other than betrayal. I don't damn all of Italian history or the Italian nation for it, but it's not a highpoint in Italian foreign policy.



Don't get me wrong I'm not necessarily drawing out some kind of condemnation of the Italian nation because of this, but I also don't think you can ignore what are essential historical facts. Nationalism should deal with reality rather than just ignoring it or twisting it to serve nationalist ends. I believe this is true because, honestly, history generally serves nationalist ends on its own.

We could not go to war allied of Germany and Austria because otherwise we would not have been able to recover the lands that were missing Ethnic Unity, namely Trentino, Carnia, Istria and Dalmatia: during the first year of the war, when we were neutral, we have received proposals from both the parts, Allied and Central Empires.

Austria does not guarantee us anything, if not the only city of Trieste.
UK and France we shall, in addition to all the lands mentioned before (that we would have to conquer on their own), a lot of new cononies, including Tunisia, Kenya, Chad,Southern Vietnam and Antalya (southern Turkey), and also some of the german colonies.

At end the conflict, they gave us none of those colonial lands, except a few minor border of the colonies and the region of Antalya.

This was considered a betrayal by the nationalists, so that the myth of the "Mutilated Victory" was also used by Mussolini in his propaganda.

[Foxy]

Anyway this thread was about the unity of Italy not about Southern Tirol. :rolleyes2: If you have any question about the history of Italy you are welcome, but stop with these indipendentist theories EVEN HERE!
You saw, there are more GERMAN Tirolers who want to stay with Italy than German Tirolers who want to pass to Austria and do you know why? Becouse we Italians pay many taxes to fat our Tiroler fellows. If we gave all those money to Basilicata now it were a rich region.

[poiuytrewq0987]

We need to break up Italy so we can take Venetia for a Greater Yugoslavia.

[Peyrol]

ah, this is Bolzano / Bozen yesterday
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oANH8-c3Uaw

:D:D:D

[SaxonCeorl]

From The Guardian:

Silvio Berlusconi booed at event to mark anniversary of Italy's unity:
Rumblings of discontent in both north and south serve as reminder of country's fractious reality (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar/17/silvio-berlusconi-booed-italy-anniversary)


Silvio Berlusconi has been booed at a ceremony to mark the 150th anniversary of Italy's national unity.

The public holiday saw joyful celebrations in cities such as Rome and Turin, but also further signs of how fractured the country still seems at times. Politicians in the wealthy north questioned whether workers and students should have been given the day off, while some in the south said they were tired of being regarded as second-class citizens.

Italians rarely hang out their nation's red, white and green flag, except for sports events like the World Cup. But the holiday saw a sprinkling of flags draped from balconies, terraces and windows in the Italian capital.

State TV and the Italian news agency ANSA said Berlusconi was greeted with catcalls on the Janiculum Hill, where monuments and a museum honour efforts by Giuseppe Garibaldi and other Italian heroes top forge a united nation.

His three-year-old government suffered the defection of a major ally last year, and his most important coalition partner is now the Northern League, which once advocated the north's secession from Rome. Several Northern League politicians criticised the declaration of a public holiday and others said they would keep town halls in the region open in defiance.

Some in the less developed south said their region was considered second-class by Rome. "The south doesn't have a lot to celebrate," said Arturo Iannaccone of the Noi Sud movement. "After 150 years we still have a two-speed Italy."

:(

[poiuytrewq0987]

From The Guardian:

Silvio Berlusconi booed at event to mark anniversary of Italy's unity:
Rumblings of discontent in both north and south serve as reminder of country's fractious reality (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar/17/silvio-berlusconi-booed-italy-anniversary)



:(

That is good news. We need Italy to be divided and weak so they can break up and their territories will be up for taking. :laugh:

[Peyrol]

That is good news. We need Italy to be divided and weak so they can break up and their territories will be up for taking. :laugh:

You have to begin to take back the Krajina and Kosovo, before making absurd plans for Italy :rolleyes:

[Foxy]

On March 17th I was proudly in Rome, I can assure you that the city was full of flags and when the orchestry played the anthem in a square of Rome, all the presents started to sing and there was a very big crowd. At the end we asked the bis and singed the anthem twice :D and I heard a lot of "Fuck Lega Nord! Long live the united Italy!!!".

But the good news is an other: I have bought one of the major newspaper of Italy and according to a poll most Italians, also among the members of Lega Nord, are in favour of the Unity and consider the reunification a positive step for Italy.

The reasons why Italians are proud of their country - the poll says - are:
74,9% the artistic and cultural heritage;
71,1% the beauty of our land;
71% the cuisine;
67% to listen the national anthem;
66,6% to see the flag waving;
49;3% the Risorgiment and the Resistence;
42,8% the fashion and the style;
37,5% our Consitution;
36,7% the music and our singers;
26,3& the sport and the champions;
25,1% cinema, actors and directors;
8,7% our economy
2,8% politics and politicians.

The result is very interesting, the newspaper continues, becouse it clearly says that Italians are proud of their history, the high culture and the artistic picks achieved by Italy; but also by the cuisine. They listen with pride to the national anthem and see the flag with emotion. But almost none is proud of the current situation of Italy, especially about economy and, most of all, about politics. Most Italians perceive, on the contrary, the current politicians as a reason to be ashamed of Italy, therefore Italians look back to the past with nostalgia and melanchony, and it seems a diffuse feeling in the whole peninsula.

About the most positive moments in the history of Italy, the result says that the most positive moments have been:
88,4% the birth of the Italian Consitution;
86% the Risorgimento;
84,7% the rebuilding of 50s and 60s;
69,8% the Resistence;
30,6% the First World War;
29,4% Tangentopoli;
21% the Second World War;
13,1% Fascism;
9,7% Terrorism.

[Magister Eckhart]

BBC is condemning the celebrations (essentially). I listened to a report where they strongly questioned "whether a country as young as Italy has much to celebrate in the midst of sex scandals and political corruption, as well as a heated immigration debate". (paraphrased).

Discuss.

[askra]

Sardinia belonged to Tuscany until the XVIII century, when Tuscany sold it to France. It has been sold, so it legally passed under France for will of both the countries.

it's wrong :tongue
The French attempted to invade Sardinia in 1792, but without success.
the Tuscans, precisely the Republic of Pisa, together the Republic of Genoa, came in Sardinia in XI century, to support the sardinians that were fighting against the muslim leader Mujahid al Amiri, that was attempting to conquer the island. But tuscans and genoese was forced to leave the island in 14th-15th centuries when the Aragonese defeated the Giudicati (the 4 sardinians kingdoms under the political influence of Pisa and Genoa).

in the first part of XVIII century the island was until part of Spanish Empire, from 1713 was administered by the Austrians, and after 1718 was under the rule of House of Savoy ;)

[askra]

From The Guardian:

Silvio Berlusconi booed at event to mark anniversary of Italy's unity:
Rumblings of discontent in both north and south serve as reminder of country's fractious reality (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar/17/silvio-berlusconi-booed-italy-anniversary)



:(

why are you sad? it's a good news!

[Foxy]

it's wrong :tongue
The French attempted to invade Sardinia in 1792, but without success.
the Tuscans, precisely the Republic of Pisa, together the Republic of Genoa, came in Sardinia in XI century, to support the sardinians that were fighting against the muslim leader Mujahid al Amiri, that was attempting to conquer the island. But tuscans and genoese was forced to leave the island in 14th-15th centuries when the Aragonese defeated the Giudicati (the 4 sardinians kingdoms under the political influence of Pisa and Genoa).

in the first part of XVIII century the island was until part of Spanish Empire, from 1713 was administered by the Austrians, and after 1718 was under the rule of House of Savoy ;)

Oh shit, I wrote Sardinia?! I meant Corsica... Corsica was sold by Tuscany to France. :D Sardinia is our. ;)

[Foxy]

BBC is condemning the celebrations (essentially). I listened to a report where they strongly questioned "whether a country as young as Italy has much to celebrate in the midst of sex scandals and political corruption, as well as a heated immigration debate". (paraphrased).

Discuss.

Simply we don't celebrate our politicians, but our people and the unity, which is different. The first politicians of Italy were very different from the current ones. The most beloved characters are: Garibaldi, Mazzini, Cavour, De Gasperi, but also more recent ones like Berlinguer.

I ask myself how much of Italy do you know to ask such a thing. :rolleyes:
An other thing that we are celebrating is Italy as a whole. The motto is "United since 150 years, Italians since ever". As you can see none is happy or is celebrating our current situation, on the contrary statistics say that Italians are very disappointed about the current politica and economical situation. The problem is that in politics today there's no valid or innovative candidate, they are all the same sh**.

In the video posted by Tribuno a slogan said a very beautiful motto: <<In the happy periods we (youngs) follow good exemples, in the bad periods we give the good exemples>>. It summarize my thought very well.

[askra]

Oh shit, I wrote Sardinia?! I meant Corsica... Corsica was sold by Tuscany to France. :D Sardinia is our. ;)

however, it was the Republic of Genoa (not tuscany) that sold Corsica to France, in 1768, one year before of Napoleon's birth

[Magister Eckhart]

Simply we don't celebrate our politicians, but our people and the unity, which is different. The first politicians of Italy were very different from the current ones. The most beloved characters are: Garibaldi, Mazzini, Cavour, De Gasperi, but also more recent ones like Berlinguer.

I ask myself how much of Italy do you know to ask such a thing. :rolleyes:
An other thing that we are celebrating is Italy as a whole. The motto is "United since 150 years, Italians since ever". As you can see none is happy or is celebrating our current situation, on the contrary statistics say that Italians are very disappointed about the current politica and economical situation. The problem is that in politics today there's no valid or innovative candidate, they are all the same sh**.

In the video posted by Tribuno a slogan said a very beautiful motto: <<In the happy periods we (youngs) follow good exemples, in the bad periods we give the good exemples>>. It summarize my thought very well.

Ask what? I was looking for a reaction to the BBC report (which I got). It's a pity only one person seemed to see fit to respond to it though...

I find it interesting that the international media's reaction was so lukewarm. I somewhat expected a more explicit condemnation of nationalism.

[SaxonCeorl]

why are you sad? it's a good news!

How is it good? It seems to indicate that, in general, many Italians care only for their region, not for Italy.

[Foxy]

however, it was the Republic of Genoa (not tuscany) that sold Corsica to France, in 1768, one year before of Napoleon's birth

I had to expect it, considering that Geoneses have a fame to be as stingy as Scottish. :rolleyes:

@SaxonCeorl: when Berlusconi is booed it is always a good news. Learn it if you want to Italianize yourself :P

[askra]

How is it good? It seems to indicate that, in general, many Italians care only for their region, not for Italy.

i was referring to the booes against italian prime minister!

[Peyrol]

BBC is condemning the celebrations (essentially). I listened to a report where they strongly questioned "whether a country as young as Italy has much to celebrate in the midst of sex scandals and political corruption, as well as a heated immigration debate". (paraphrased).

Discuss.

2700 years of history and culture of the Italian people can not be undermined and reduced only to sexual perversions of Berlusconi.