View Full Version : R1a subclades among ethnic Russians
From the RussiaDNA Project selected subclades of R1a (37+ markers), related namesakes with the same haplotype are counted as 1, non-ethnic Russians excluded, a sample of more than 600 haplotypes:
R1a M458+ CTS11962- L260- 0.33%
R1a M458+ CTS11962+ 6.66%
R1a M458+ L260+ 3.33%
R1a Y17491+ 0.16%
R1a Z284+ "vikings" 0.33%
R1a Z280+ CTS1211+ Y35+ 24.16%
R1a Z280+ CTS1211+ YP1019+ 0.5%
R1a Z280+ CTS1211+ YP1034+ 0.5%
R1a Z280+ CTS1211+ YP343+ 1.66%
R1a Z280+ Z92+ Y4459+ "veneds" 11.16%
R1a Z280+ Z92+ Z685+ "neuri" 1.83%
R1a Z93+ Z94- 0.33%
R1a Z93+ Z94+ 1%
Total R1a 52%
does anyone have other data? Maybe about Poles or Ukrainians R1a subclades?
Dibran
05-16-2018, 03:43 PM
From the RussiaDNA Project selected subclades of R1a (37+ markers), related namesakes with the same haplotype are counted as 1, non-ethnic Russians excluded, a sample of more than 600 haplotypes:
R1a M458+ CTS11962- L260- 0.33%
R1a M458+ CTS11962+ 6.66%
R1a M458+ L260+ 3.33%
R1a Y17491+ 0.16%
R1a Z284+ "vikings" 0.33%
R1a Z280+ CTS1211+ Y35+ 24.16%
R1a Z280+ CTS1211+ YP1019+ 0.5%
R1a Z280+ CTS1211+ YP1034+ 0.5%
R1a Z280+ CTS1211+ YP343+ 1.66%
R1a Z280+ Z92+ Y4459+ "veneds" 11.16%
R1a Z280+ Z92+ Z685+ "neuri" 1.83%
R1a Z93+ Z94- 0.33%
R1a Z93+ Z94+ 1%
Total R1a 52%
does anyone have other data? Maybe about Poles or Ukrainians R1a subclades?
Idk if it will add to your data or if you have already used this. This guy Vayda has very detailed information.
http://blog.vayda.pl/en/haplogroup-r1a-statistic-02-2018-14-new/
nice maps here: http://dna-academy.ru/haplomaps-r1a-subclades/
for example - Центрально-европейская ветвь (CTS11962)
http://dna-academy.ru/wp-content/uploads/CTS11962-Europe-contour.jpg
Can you give me the breakdown of the remaining 48%?
Can you give me the breakdown of the remaining 48%?
I have only for R1b:
R1b1а1 M73+ 0.2%
R1b1a2 U106+ 0.7%
R1b1a2 P312+ 1.7%
R1b1a2 Z2103+ 2.3%
Total R1b 5%
while there is no information on other haplogroups. When will appear, I will write here.
Weiss
05-17-2018, 11:45 AM
I have only for R1b:
R1b1а1 M73+ 0.2%
R1b1a2 U106+ 0.7%
R1b1a2 P312+ 1.7%
R1b1a2 Z2103+ 2.3%
Total R1b 5%
while there is no information on other haplogroups. When will appear, I will write here.
There is no region of russia where I1 is native?
There is no region of russia where I1 is native?
In Russia there are regions where the concentration of I1 reaches 15-20%, this is the Russian north.
Weiss
05-17-2018, 11:52 AM
In Russia there are regions where the concentration of I1 reaches 15-20%, this is the Russian north.
Yes, but is I1 native for Russians?
Peterski
05-17-2018, 12:02 PM
Maybe about Poles or Ukrainians R1a subclades?
Polish subclades of R1a:
Here are two different estimates of percentages of R1a subgroups in Poland.
1. My estimate (I calculated it from FTDNA Projects):
R1a-M459 - 100,00% (sample size 1208), including:
---- M459* - 0,17% (2)
---- M198 - 99,83% (1206)
-------- M198* - 0,17% (2)
-------- L664 - 0,33% (4)
-------- Z645 - 99,34% (1200)
------------ Z93 - 2,73% (33)
------------ Z283 - 96,61% (1167)
---------------- Z283* - 0,91% (11)
---------------- Z284 - 0,41% (5)
---------------- M458 - 46,03% (556), including:
-------------------- L260 - 24,83% (300)
-------------------- CTS11962 - 20,45% (247)
-------------------- other M458 - 0,75% (9)
---------------- Z280 - 49,25% (595), including:
-------------------- CTS1211 - 38,49% (465)
------------------------ CTS3402 - 30,05% (363)
------------------------ other CTS1211 - 8,44% (102)
-------------------- Z92 - 9,85% (119)
-------------------- other Z280 - 0,91% (11)
2. Estimates of Peter Gwozdz from his website:
(but this includes Polish Jews with R1a-Y2619)
http://www.gwozdz.org/Results.html
R1a-M459 - 100,00% of Polish R1a, including:
Z93 - 5,25%
--- Y2619 - 3,03%
--- other Z93 - 2,22%
M458 - 46,87% of Polish R1a, including:
---- L260 - 29,70%
-------- YP254 - 19,60%
------------ Y4135 - 3,43%
------------ YP414 - 8,48%
---------------- YP610 - 5,66%
---------------- YP589 - 2,83%
------------ Y2905 - 7,07%
---------------- YP1364 - 3,43%
---------------- other Y2905 - 3,64%
------------ other YP254 - 0,62%
-------- YP654 - 4,85%
-------- other L260 - 5,25%
---- CTS11962 - 16,57%
-------- L1029 - 12,53%
------------ YP593 - 3,84%
------------ YP444 - 2,42%
------------ other L1029 - 6,27%
-------- YP515 - 4,04%
---- other M458 - 0,60%
Z280 - 46,87% of Polish R1a, including:
---- CTS1211 - 37,37%
-------- CTS3402 - 32,12%
------------ Y33 - 14,34%
---------------- Y2902 - 6,67%
---------------- S18681 - 5,05%
---------------- L1280 - 2,22%
---------------- other Y33 - 0,40%
------------ YP237 - 13,54%
---------------- YP389 - 4,44%
---------------- YP977 - 3,84%
---------------- L269 - 2,02%
---------------- other YP237 - 3,24%
------------ Y2613 - 4,04%
---------------- Y2608 - 3,64%
---------------- other Y2613 - 0,40%
------------ other CTS3402 - 0,20%
-------- YP343 - 4,04%
------------ YP371 - 2,83%
------------ other YP343 - 1,21%
---- Z92 - 8,48%
-------- Z685 - 5,66%
------------ CTS4648 - 2,83%
------------ YP351 - 2,83%
-------- Z92 type E - 2,42%
-------- other Z92 - 0,40%
All other R1a - 1,01%
R1b1а1 M73+ 0.2%
R1b1a2 U106+ 0.7%
R1b1a2 P312+ 1.7%
R1b1a2 Z2103+ 2.3%
Total R1b 5%
Polish subclades of R1b:
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?197051-R1b-M269-subclades-in-Poland
R1b-M269
= 16,5%
R-M269*
= 0,4%
L23(xL51)
= 3,5%
L23*
= 1,0%
Z2103
= 2,5%
Z2103>Y5587>BY593
= 1,5%
other Z2103>Y5587
= 0,5%
other Z2103
= 0,5%
L51(xL11)
= 0,3%
L11*
= 0,3%
P312
= 6,0%
P312*
= 0,3%
U152
= 3,4%
U152>L2>FGC8158
= 0,5%
other U152>L2
= 2,0%
other U152
= 0,9%
DF27
= 1,3%
DF27>Z196
= 1,0%
other DF27
= 0,3%
L21
= 1,0%
U106
= 6,0%
U106>L48
= 4,0%
L48>L47>Y6451
= 0,5%
other L48>L47
= 1,5%
L48>Z9
= 1,5%
other L48
= 0,5%
other U106
= 2,0%
Yes, but is I1 native for Russians?
I would not say that. The Russian North is the territory that the Slavic, Germanic, Baltic and Finno-Ugric peoples settled in the past. But the Russians (Slavs) are basically R1a, I1 are assimilated Germanic. Just as N1c is assimilated Finnic and Baltic.
Pahli
05-17-2018, 12:09 PM
Interesting to see Z93 in Russia and Poland, Indo-Iranian marker right?
Interesting to see Z93 in Russia and Poland, Indo-Iranian marker right?
yeah exactly
Weiss
05-17-2018, 12:12 PM
I would not say that. The Russian North is the territory that the Slavic, Germanic, Baltic and Finno-Ugric peoples settled in the past. But the Russians (Slavs) are basically R1a, I1 are assimilated Germanic. Just as N1c is assimilated Finnic and Baltic.
Thanks! I'm saying this because i'm I-m253 russian, so i was hoping there could be some slavic tribes that ported this haplogroup too, i guess my ancestors came from germanic land then, hope at least it was the Rus people
Thanks! I'm saying this because i'm I-m253 russian, so i was hoping there could be some slavic tribes that ported this haplogroup too, i guess my ancestors came from germanic land then, hope at least it was the Rus people
in the Russian region of Kostroma, I-M253 occurs with frequency of 12% of the population. So this is also one of the frequent Russian subclades.
Weiss
05-17-2018, 12:20 PM
in the Russian region of Kostroma, I1 occurs with frequency of 26%, namely I-M253 among 12% of the population. So this is also one of the frequent Russian subclades.
Yes, but it's not a native haplogroup that's what i mean
Yes, but it's not a native haplogroup that's what i mean
I1 is also not native to Proto-Germanic. But today it is considered to be Germanic. So it's not a problem, that this haplogroup is not native to the nation, today it is one of the main among Russians.
Kelmendasi
05-17-2018, 03:39 PM
Interesting to see Z93 in Russia and Poland, Indo-Iranian marker right?
Also interesting that their main R1b is Z2103 which is the R1b found among the Yamnaya.
I have only for R1b:
R1b1а1 M73+ 0.2%
R1b1a2 U106+ 0.7%
R1b1a2 P312+ 1.7%
R1b1a2 Z2103+ 2.3%
Total R1b 5%
while there is no information on other haplogroups. When will appear, I will write here.
Alright.
By the way, what are you autosomal results, whatever test you took?
Thanks! I'm saying this because i'm I-m253 russian, so i was hoping there could be some slavic tribes that ported this haplogroup too, i guess my ancestors came from germanic land then, hope at least it was the Rus people
Probably from the Rus.
Alright.
By the way, what are you autosomal results, whatever test you took?
I did not pass an autosomal test, but I plan in the future. What do you advise?
I1 is also not native to Proto-Germanic. But today it is considered to be Germanic. So it's not a problem, that this haplogroup is not native to the nation, today it is one of the main among Russians.
Does Russian I1 fall under the Finnish subclades or Scandinavian?
Vlatko Vukovic
05-18-2018, 12:02 AM
I would not say that. The Russian North is the territory that the Slavic, Germanic, Baltic and Finno-Ugric peoples settled in the past. But the Russians (Slavs) are basically R1a, I1 are assimilated Germanic. Just as N1c is assimilated Finnic and Baltic.
R1a could also be assimilated Baltic as well.
Does Russian I1 fall under the Finnish subclades or Scandinavian?
On ftdna the main I1 subclade that Russians have is P109 which is scandinavian
On ftdna the main I1 subclade that Russians have is P109 which is scandinavian
Interesting as subclades under P109 are present all over Scandinavia and also Britain and France. Could it really be from Varangians? I doubt Swedish Vikings left a significant genetic trace behind them in Eastern Europe but it's possible. How many Russians fall under this subclade percentage wise?
Interesting as subclades under P109 are present all over Scandinavia and also Britain and France. Could it really be from Varangians? I doubt Swedish Vikings left a significant genetic trace behind them in Eastern Europe but it's possible. How many Russians fall under this subclade percentage wise?
Majority is P109 and Z63 and some M227, the Z63 could be from both Rus and Goths. M227 could be from old Baltic ppl. Finnish subclades of I1 is even rare in Finland.
Majority is P109 and Z63 and some M227, the Z63 could be from both Rus and Goths. M227 could be from old Baltic ppl. Finnish subclades of I1 is even rare in Finland.
Really? I'm guessing the unique Finnish sublcades are rare outside of Finland and rather young?
Really? I'm guessing the unique Finnish sublcades are rare outside of Finland and rather young?
Yes. it , L287, is also downstream of L22 like P109 but exclusively Finnish.
Peterski
05-18-2018, 04:22 PM
(...)
What can you say about the most common Polish subclades of I1?:
I1a-Y6340
I1a-L1237
I1a-L22
Kelmendasi
05-18-2018, 04:36 PM
What can you say about the most common Polish subclades of I1?:
I1a-Y6340
I1a-L1237
I1a-L22
I1-Y6340 is a descendant of S7462 which seems to have originated in Scandinavia although is also found in the Baltics, it split from it's ancestor S4767 4,000 years ago. I1-L1237 is a descendant of Z63 which is often called as a "Continental Germanic" branch of I1, I1-L1237 is found in Sweden, Poland, Ukraine, Russia, Serbia, Bosnia, Czechia, France and northern Italy and is assumed to have a Gothic expansion. I1-L22 originated in Scandinavia and was formed in the Battle axe culture according to age estimates, L22 is the clade where the Nordic branches come from.
Peterski
05-18-2018, 04:46 PM
I1-L1237 is found in Sweden, Poland, Ukraine, Russia, Serbia, Bosnia, Czechia, France and northern Italy and is assumed to have a Gothic expansion.
I1-L1237 is proven to be present in Poland during the Iron Age:
https://www.eupedia.com/genetics/regional_dna_project_poland.shtml
There was also some I1a2a-Z59 (most likely I1a2a2a5-Y5384).
What do we know about I1-Y5384 ???
I1-L1237 is proven to be present in Poland during the Iron Age:
https://www.eupedia.com/genetics/regional_dna_project_poland.shtml
There was also some I1a2a-Z59 (most likely I1a2a2a5-Y5384).
What do we know about I1-Y5384 ???
Probably gothic. L1237 was definitely slavicized like I2 and is common the balkans so some clades of I1 should also be considered Slavic
Kelmendasi
05-18-2018, 04:58 PM
I1-L1237 is proven to be present in Poland during the Iron Age:
https://www.eupedia.com/genetics/regional_dna_project_poland.shtml
There was also some I1a2a-Z59 (most likely I1a2a2a5-Y5384).
What do we know about I1-Y5384 ???
Interesting, so perhaps it was part of the Wielbark culture which iirc contained Goths. I1-Y5384 is a descendant of Z58 which is mainly found in west Germanics, and it's father clade is Z382 which is mainly found in the British Isles and Germany. Y5384 itself though has been found in Finland and Italy although some downstreams have been found in Sweden, it has a TMRCA of 1,900ybp which puts it during 118 AD, the formation is 3,400 ybp
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