In your opinion, which is the most racially-integrated Latin American country?

[Tooting Carmen]

Which country in Latin America do you think has per capita the most mixed marriages, and where there is no real racial segregation?

[alnortedelsur]

The most racially uniform ones.

[Tooting Carmen]

The most racially uniform ones.

Like where?

[alnortedelsur]

Like where?

Chile, Paraguay, El Salvador, Mexico, Ecuador (except that it has a black minority), Argentina (would be even more if it wasn't because is receiving many Peruvian and Bolivian immigrants), Uruguay, etc.

[Tooting Carmen]

Chile, Paraguay, El Salvador, Mexico, Ecuador (except that it has a black minority), Argentina (would be more if it wasn't because is receiving many Peruvian and Bolivian immigrants), Uruguay, etc.

I'd certainly take issue with calling Mexico "racially uniform": it has everything from quasi 'gringo'-looking people in the North to full Amerindians in the South, not to mention sizable populations of Arabs and East Asians throughout the country and a few Blacks and Mulattoes in Oaxaca and Guerrero. Chile, El Salvador, Paraguay and especially Ecuador also have a broad spectrum of everything from very White to very Amerindian, though of course not with the same variety as Mexico.

[alnortedelsur]

I'd certainly take issue with calling Mexico "racially uniform": it has everything from quasi 'gringo'-looking people in the North to full Amerindians in the South, not to mention sizable populations of Arabs and East Asians throughout the country and a few Blacks and Mulattoes in Oaxaca and Guerrero. Chile, El Salvador, Paraguay and especially Ecuador also have a broad spectrum of everything from very White to very Amerindian, though of course not with the same variety as Mexico.

I know all that. There is not any Latin American country where everybody is racially the same. But when comparing Mexico with countries like Venezuela, Colombia or Brazil, the later ones are much more multiracial. That's what I mean.

[Teutone]

Brazlians seem to have no problem with race mixing at all.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_RQbmo9X7uNg/TKuWg4wYUSI/AAAAAAAAAA8/wt1570R4R-Q/s1600/People+living+at+Favelas.jpg

[Tooting Carmen]

I know all that. There is not any Latin American country where everybody is racially the same. But when comparing Mexico with countries like Venezuela, Colombia or Brazil, the later ones are much more multiracial. That's what I mean.

Not sure about Venezuela, but Colombia I'd say in a racial sense is quite integrated - the wealthier classes are only a little whiter than the poorer classes and you find a shocking range of skintones and types even within the same family. (Ironically, before Chavez came along Venezuela was probably much like Colombia in that regard, but his constant rhetoric about 'anti-imperialism' and 'class warfare' etc. probably encouraged a lot of hatreds that were not really there before).

[QUICAS]

Brazlians seem to have no problem with race mixing at all.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_RQbmo9X7uNg/TKuWg4wYUSI/AAAAAAAAAA8/wt1570R4R-Q/s1600/People+living+at+Favelas.jpg

We have a lot of poor european brazilians here a lot of rich pardos too.

[QUICAS]

Brazilian society as whole is not integrated, since behavior, habits, tastes change of lot between social classes. The is an integration between upper class of all the country, but just that. Poors are not integrated between different states. Different social classes are almost non integrated.

[Tooting Carmen]

bump

[Costas]

I voted for Paraguay.

[Catarinense1998]

Bolívia.The dumb, retard potpourri indian is rulling over the country.

[time67]

Hey QUICAS, are the Japanese in Brazil integrated with the rest of the population or are they still secluded to Liberdale?

As for the main question, I think it depends.

I've heard some people say they witnessed much more racial segregation and hate in Puerto Rico than Cuba. I never been to PR but Cuba was surprisingly integrated on a social/cultural level, albeit this isn't reflected politically or economically. In PR, black PR's are dominant in Loiza and certain other areas and, from what I've heard, the white and Tri-racial PR's tend to openly make nasty comments about black PR's as well as Dominican immigrants and segregate from them. It's pretty shocking considering how PR's in the U.S. are pretty "black friendly" as a whole.

Brazil seems fairly integrated in the Northeast/Southeast parts.

Paraguay has a lot of Amerindian influenced Mestizos who speak Guarani so that makes it a great candidate as well.

Mexico, Chile, and Costa Rica have a lot of integration between whites and Mesitzos.

Overall, I'd say Brazil when it comes to integration of all races/mixes.

Guatemala, on the other hand, is the WOAT in this aspect. Amerindian women have gotten abused and gang raped by Ladinos(Mestizos) for years, Garifunas/Blacks are shunned and disrespected, Whites/Criollos look down on all the them. Maya speaking Amerindians hold resentment towards Ladinos. Guatemala has been declared the most racist Central American country for quite some time now. The government also tried to genocide the Mayan population in the 80's.

https://www.culturalsurvival.org/news/combating-racism-against-indigenous-peoples-guatemala
https://cja.org/what-we-do/litigation/the-guatemala-genocide-case/

Say what you want about Argentines but they never pulled off something this sadistic in their country.

[Carlito's Way]

I'd certainly take issue with calling Mexico "racially uniform": it has everything from quasi 'gringo'-looking people in the North to full Amerindians in the South, not to mention sizable populations of Arabs and East Asians throughout the country and a few Blacks and Mulattoes in Oaxaca and Guerrero. Chile, El Salvador, Paraguay and especially Ecuador also have a broad spectrum of everything from very White to very Amerindian, though of course not with the same variety as Mexico.

every latino country has that, not only mexico smh
pure amerindians are actually found in the north, the amerindians in the south for the most part have some admixture even if its 5%
also many full blood whites live in southern mexico, a lot more than in the north

blacks/mulattoes/triracials/zambos can also be found in Coahuila which is in northern mexico, but also in Veracruz, Chiapas, Campeche and Tabasco with some in Quintana Roo and Yucatan

stop stereotyping the regions smh

[Carlito's Way]

https://www.culturalsurvival.org/news/combating-racism-against-indigenous-peoples-guatemala
https://cja.org/what-we-do/litigation/the-guatemala-genocide-case/

Say what you want about Argentines but they never pulled off something this sadistic in their country.

oh they have, with their amerindian and especially black population, learn what did they do to their black men during wars smh they were used as front lines during their stupid wars, that is how they killed off many of their black population, yet they stole the afro-argentine legacy of tango and erased their influence

[time67]

Brazilian society as whole is not integrated, since behavior, habits, tastes change of lot between social classes. The is an integration between upper class of all the country, but just that. Poors are not integrated between different states. Different social classes are almost non integrated.

Are the Japanese in Brazil integrated with the general population or still secluded in Liberdale?

[QUICAS]

They are integrated, but one of the less integrated.

[Erronkari]

Paraguay, Uruguay and probably El Salvador.

[Tooting Carmen]

Bump

[Tooting Carmen]

bump

[Erronkari]

Well, for a country which has 27.000.000 km2 of territory and 45 million inhabitants this country is very integrated.

[Tooting Carmen]

Well, for a country which has 27.000.000 km2 of territory and 45 million inhabitants this country is very integrated.

Yes, but you have almost no Black people and relatively few Amerindians. Argentina is basically a White (including for argument's sake Jews, Turks and Levantines) and Mestizo mix.

[Erronkari]

Yes, but you have almost no Black people and relatively few Amerindians. Argentina is basically a White (including for argument's sake Jews, Turks and Levantines) and Mestizo mix.

I see... so may be I should vote for Panama... :picard1:

[Tooting Carmen]

I see... so may be I should vote for Panama... :picard1:

But in all seriousness, how much mixing between Whites, Mestizos and what few Amerindians you have left in Argentina is there?

[StonyArabia]

Mexico probably everyone is Mestizo there, even if they are White at least culturally

[Tooting Carmen]

Mexico probably everyone is Mestizo there, even if they are White at least culturally

The highlighted part is one of the biggest myths out there.

[Erronkari]

I don't see any trouble with racial issues at this time.
At least not between argentinian people.
With foreigners probably it's different.

[Zuh]

I'd certainly take issue with calling Mexico "racially uniform": it has everything from quasi 'gringo'-looking people in the North to full Amerindians in the South, not to mention sizable populations of Arabs and East Asians throughout the country and a few Blacks and Mulattoes in Oaxaca and Guerrero. Chile, El Salvador, Paraguay and especially Ecuador also have a broad spectrum of everything from very White to very Amerindian, though of course not with the same variety as Mexico.

This +1 couldn't have say it any better in reality no one cares about race in Mexico there's still Indios dating Criollas in Mexico specially if they're Hispanized and not living in their indigenous communities.

[Erronkari]

Edited.

[Erronkari]

But in all seriousness, how much mixing between Whites, Mestizos and what few Amerindians you have left in Argentina is there?

In the northwestern region (Salta and Jujuy especially) most common inhabitants are very mixed, and in many cases almost amerindians, especilly in the Puna region.
The north region is in a way mixed too, even less than northwestern, but quite similar with paraguayans.
The rest of the country is mostly predominantly castizo and leaning to criollo, but it's not that homlgeneous many people think.
Uruguay, Paraguay, probably Chile and El Salvador are far more homogeneous.

[Zuh]

In the northwestern region (Salta and Jujuy especially) most common inhabitants are very mixed, and in many cases almost amerindians, especilly in the Puna region.
The north region is in a way mixed too, even less than northwestern, but quite similar with paraguayans.
The rest of the country is mostly predominantly castizo and leaning to criollo, but it's not that homlgeneous many people think.
Uruguay, Paraguay, probably Chile and El Salvador are far mpre homogeneous.

I have one question towards you how yo been to Mexico?

[Erronkari]

I have one question towards you how yo been to Mexico?

Unhappily I've never been there. :(
I met a lot of mexicans because I've lived for 15 years in Central America and they came there on vacations.
I hope to go one time, my children love your food! ��

[Zuh]

Unhappily I've never been there. :(
I met a lot of mexicans because I've lived for 15 years in Central America and they came there on vacations.
I hope to go one time, my children love your food! ��

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcTXgQgUPzt3gXeo3nsCXbUPfHI2X9t XU2fYB86HNlM5R_A_YbmL

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcTacxg_WOw2iaFQ167JeqRKg-EAL2AjdFo2ihj9pVx33Rmcxoeq


xD

[Berlko2]

Racially integrated ≠ racially homogeneuos.

Racial integration is far from being a realty in most Latam countries.

In most Central American countries, as well as Mexico, Colombia and, to a lesser extent, Chile, Venezuela and parts of Brazil, whites are overrepresented in politics, economic leadership, higher class and other positions of power.

In that sense, I think the most racially integrated, though far from being perfect, are Uruguay, Argentina and to a lesser extent Paraguay. However, these countries/regions don’t have significant racial minorities, being mostly white (Argentina and Uruguay) and mixed (Paraguay).

In some countries like Mexico, whites represent a small share of the population, but when you tune a Mexican telenovela, TV or the political debate; or you look at the demographics of the richest neighborhoods, white are overrepresented by far. Same applies to Colombia and other countries.

[Erronkari]

https://i.imgur.com/xn0a0Ye.jpg

Of course it doesn't consider latest immigrations.

[Tooting Carmen]

https://i.imgur.com/xn0a0Ye.jpg

Of course it doesn't consider latest immigrations.

And a lot of it is BS anyway. LOL at US being less diverse than Brazil, for example.

[Token]

Are the Japanese in Brazil integrated with the general population or still secluded in Liberdale?

Japanese are the most 'secluded' ethnic group of Brazil. They live in communities and preserve a quite distinctive Japanese culture and mindset.

[Tooting Carmen]

Japanese are the most 'secluded' ethnic group of Brazil. They live in communities and preserve a quite distinctive Japanese culture and mindset.

That's funny - I thought the younger generations in particular intermarry quite a lot. I know one Brazilian woman who is a Japanese-Italian mix and looks (pseudo) Mestiza.

[Erronkari]

And a lot of it is BS anyway. LOL at US being less diverse than Brazil, for example.

I still saying that Argentina is not a an homogeneous country.
We are the result of many diverse immigration currents settled here and not only from the same place.
We have the biggest irish community in LA, the jewish one, the armenian, the bulgarian, the welsh, the volgian-german, the danish, etc.
Of course italian and spanish immigrants were the most numerous but not only them settled here.
Many people think that argentinians look almost the same and that is 100% false.

[Tooting Carmen]

I still saying that Argentina is not a an homogeneous country.
We are the result of many diverse immigration currents settled here and not only from the same place.
We have the biggest irish community in LA, the jewish one, the armenian, the bulgarian, the welsh, the volgian-german, the danish, etc.
Of course italian and spanish immigrants were the most numerous but not only them settled here.
Many people think that argentinians look almost the same and that is 100% false.

It depends on how you define 'diversity' and 'homogenity' though. Argentina has less racial diversity than many other countries, in the sense that the proportion of people who aren't White (or Euro-leaning Mestizo) is relatively low. However, among the Whites themselves there is of course a whole range of backgrounds and cultures.

[Blondie]

https://i.imgur.com/xn0a0Ye.jpg

Of course it doesn't consider latest immigrations.

This map is not true. Sweden has 25% non white population.

[Tooting Carmen]

This map is not true. Sweden has 25% immigrant population.

Fixed. Many of them are White in fact, in particular from Eastern Europe and other Nordic countries.

[Erronkari]

It depends on how you define 'diversity' and 'homogenity' though. Argentina has less racial diversity than many other countries, in the sense that the proportion of people who aren't White (or Euro-leaning Mestizo) is relatively low. However, among the Whites themselves there is of course a whole range of backgrounds and cultures.

Ok, I understood and I agree.
In a way it's one of the most homogeneous, and in another (=/= type of immigration) it's one of the most diverses.
Even, I recognize that map is probably a crap. :p

[Tooting Carmen]

Ok, I understood and I agree.
In a way it's one of the most homogeneous, and in another (=/= type of immigration) it's one of the most diverses.
Even, I recognize that map is probably a crap. :p

Here is a question for you: which would you consider to be more diverse? A city that is 95% White but where the residents come from all over Europe, or a city that is 55% White but basically consists of three ethnic groups, e.g. English people, Pakistanis and Afro-Caribbeans?

[Blondie]

Fixed. Many of them are White in fact, in particular from Eastern Europe and other Nordic countries.

No, majority of Malmö and Stockholm are non white, there are more muslim than christian, and Sweden is one of the most dangerous place for woman:

https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Crime/Rape-rate

[Tooting Carmen]

Ok, I understood and I agree.
In a way it's one of the most homogeneous, and in another (=/= type of immigration) it's one of the most diverses.
Even, I recognize that map is probably a crap. :p

Well in Argentina, are all the ethnic groups pretty mixed up by now, or do they still keep themselves to themselves?

[Argentano]

Well in Argentina, are all the ethnic groups pretty mixed up by now, or do they still keep themselves to themselves?

Argentina is actually one of the most heterogeneus countries of latam. Compare Chile and Argentina boxplots

Notice the argentine intermediate box (50%) is the biggest of them all

https://i.imgur.com/TtZFvld.png

[Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin]

Chile, Paraguay, El Salvador, Mexico, Ecuador (except that it has a black minority), Argentina (would be even more if it wasn't because is receiving many Peruvian and Bolivian immigrants), Uruguay, etc.Arent blacks in ecuador more accepted than other parts of latin america?I dont think they get descriminated as much.

[RMuller]

Arent blacks in ecuador more accepted than other parts of latin america?I dont think they get descriminated as much.

Afro-Ecuadorians live among the coastal areas .They are isolated.They aren't to common in Guayaquil or Quito or the andean highlands.

[RMuller]

This +1 couldn't have say it any better in reality no one cares about race in Mexico there's still Indios dating Criollas in Mexico specially if they're Hispanized and not living in their indigenous communities.

Agree.Basically all Mexicans can trace their ancestors to colonial Mexico or to 15,000 years in Mexico. Mexico has an identity.

[Joso]

Despite what people generaly think, it is not Brazil. Some recent imigrants still only marry between themselves.
And even among mixed people, they generaly don't marry with people that has very different look and skin collor than them

[CostaRicaBall]

Costa Rica. You could be european, amerindian or black and be in the middle or high class. Also i this country not exist problems with race mixing after 50´s unless if you are nicaraguan. A good part of a population don´t like nicaraguans(nicaraguans have indomestizo looking with two digits of SSA as well), we can identify them because most of us are light-skinned and also is more probably to be white, mulatto, balanced mestizo or full black than be amerindian with SSA admixture. Also, they have diferent accent than us and most of them here are in poor class.

[Jacques de Imbelloni]

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?268518-Telenovelas-or-Bollywood-which-is-more-unrealistic

[LawrenceMartinez]

Brasil is so mixed and ''integrated'' that the concept of race itself became a subjective thing here.

[Valedictorian]

I'd say that Colombia still has a long way ahead to truly become a racially integrated country. Although sometimes Colombian society can be more classist than racist (such as accepting well off brown/black people into mainstream society), there is a very strong racist feeling hiding underneath. I remember that people used to bully A LOT a blond, blue eyed cousin I have and her darker-skinned boyfriend for being together. (And dude isn't even black, just like standard Mestizo, lol.) Despite my family being White on both sides (dad's vanilla Spaniard criollo with some English ancestry, my paternal grandma's surname is Home, and mom's family looks very NW Euro, they have 1 surname that might be either German or Polish and another that might be Irish or English), they have never been openly racist.

[Tooting Carmen]

I'd say that Colombia still has a long way ahead to truly become a racially integrated country. Although sometimes Colombian society can be more classist than racist (such as accepting well off brown/black people into mainstream society), there is a very strong racist feeling hiding underneath. I remember that people used to bully A LOT a blond, blue eyed cousin I have and her darker-skinned boyfriend for being together. (And dude isn't even black, just like standard Mestizo, lol.) Despite my family being White on both sides (dad's vanilla Spaniard criollo with some English ancestry, my paternal grandma's surname is Home, and mom's family looks very NW Euro, they have 1 surname that might be either German or Polish and another that might be Irish or English), they have never been openly racist.

Out of curiosity, what would you estimate is the ethnic composition of each social class in Colombia?

[Valedictorian]

Out of curiosity, what would you estimate is the ethnic composition of each social class in Colombia?

I believe it's not as simple as to say that every white person is rich and every brown skinned person is poor, because most of the growth in the middle class comes from Mestizos. Although traditionally the upper classes have been white, it's not uncommon at all these days to see financially well-off black or brown people. Especially since the increase of the coverage of public education across the country.

I'm in the upper class echelon, as I study in one of the most expensive private universities of the country, and have travelled quite a bit around the world. Ever since the government's program "Ser Pilo Paga" started, you can see many brown and black faces in my university that you wouldn't otherwise see.

[Tooting Carmen]

I believe it's not as simple as to say that every white person is rich and every brown skinned person is poor, because most of the growth in the middle class comes from Mestizos. Although traditionally the upper classes have been white, it's not uncommon at all these days to see financially well-off black or brown people.

This really cannot be emphasised enough. Too many people think that rich Colombians mostly look like this:
https://www.biography.com/.image/t_share/MTE4MDAzNDEwMjg4MDE4OTU4/daniel-craig-201264-2-402.jpg

And that poor Colombians mostly look like this:
https://www.biography.com/.image/t_share/MTE1ODA0OTcxODE3OTI4MjA1/denzel-washington-9524687-2-402.jpg

But the reality is far more complex and diverse than that.

[Valedictorian]

This really cannot be emphasised enough. Too many people think that rich Colombians mostly look like this:
https://www.biography.com/.image/t_share/MTE4MDAzNDEwMjg4MDE4OTU4/daniel-craig-201264-2-402.jpg

And that poor Colombians mostly look like this:
https://www.biography.com/.image/t_share/MTE1ODA0OTcxODE3OTI4MjA1/denzel-washington-9524687-2-402.jpg

But the reality is far more complex and diverse than that.

Yeah that's actually quite right. Dad's a petroleum engineer and many of his coworkers look like some variant of Denzel, and as far as I know they earn just as good money as he does. Education + job opportunities is truly the perfect formula for overcoming poverty.

[Valedictorian]

Where does your colombian side come from?

[Black Panther]

Brazlians seem to have no problem with race mixing at all.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_RQbmo9X7uNg/TKuWg4wYUSI/AAAAAAAAAA8/wt1570R4R-Q/s1600/People+living+at+Favelas.jpg

That White kid is just pretending to be poor. They wanted to make gringos believe there are poor White people in Brazil so they'd donate some money to the Sudacas.

[Tooting Carmen]

That White kid is just pretending to be poor. They wanted to make gringos believe there are poor White people in Brazil so they'd donate some money to the Sudacas.

In Southern Brazil there are definitely poor White people.

[Tooting Carmen]

Where does your colombian side come from?

Mother, although she has some French and Spanish ancestry herself.

[CostaRicaBall]

Blacks in Colombia are in middle or low class? In the case of Costa Rica most of the upper class is overwhelmely white, but most whites, blacks, mulattos and mestizos(excluding the nicaraguan inmigrants) are in the middle class as well.

[Tooting Carmen]

Blacks in Colombia are in middle or low class? In the case of Costa Rica most of the upper class is overwhelmely white, but most whites, blacks, mulattos and mestizos(excluding the nicaraguan inmigrants) are in the middle class as well.

Blacks along the Pacific coast are mostly poor, while the ones along the Caribbean coast are a mixture.

[Black Panther]

In Southern Brazil there are definitely poor White people.

South Brazil is like Sweden, bro. It's a first world place.

[Tooting Carmen]

South Brazil is like Sweden, bro. It's a first world place.

There are still favelas in Rio, Sao Paulo, Curitiba, Florianopolis, Porto Alegre etc.

[Black Panther]

There are still favelas in Rio, Sao Paulo, Curitiba, Florianopolis, Porto Alegre etc.

Liar. Just ask the White Brazilians here if you don't believe me. They've all been saying South Brazil is like paradise on Earth. If they didn't give 20 billion dollars a year to the Northeast they'd be flying spaceship on Mars by now.

[CostaRicaBall]

So I believe that Costa Rica and Panamá are the racially integrated if you count race mixing and economic status. Because most poors in Brazil are blacks/pardos and mulattos. In the case of Costa Rica most of our poor people are nicaraguans(zambos and indomestizos) but that is because we have mass endless migration, after that the poor class was 17% of population and all the groups can be balanced in the middle class.

[Black Panther]

A user has asked me to keep a straight face on this thread so here goes:

I consider the more racially mixed and homogeneous countries to be the most racially integrated. I'd probably say Haiti, Uruguay, Guatemala are bound to be the most racially integrated ones and the likes of the Dominican Republic, Brazil, Mexico to be on the directions. Those countries have some serious level of racial hierarchy and segregation as a consequence of that.

[CostaRicaBall]

Guatemala isn´t racially integrated. Most of their upper and political class are whites. But whites are less than 20% of their population.

[Erronkari]

Hummmm... the thread is very interesting, but it's quite difficult to decide in some cases, because homogenous countries are in a very different situation of diverse ones... so it's hard to compare, and hard to say...

[Erronkari]

It would be interesting in your opinion which countries are the less racially-integrated.
It's not the topic of this thread, of course, I'd like to do one like that, but may be it's not convenient, I don't know.

[Tooting Carmen]

Guatemala is possibly among the closest to the caricature of a minority of rich Whites and most of the rest of the population poor and Mestizo/Amerindian.

[Tooting Carmen]

Bump

[Erronkari]

Guatemala is possibly among the closest to the caricature of a minority of rich Whites and most of the rest of the population poor and Mestizo/Amerindian.

Well... Bolivia has that characteristic too as I saw when I went there.

[Tooting Carmen]

Well... Bolivia has that characteristic too as I saw when I went there.

Difference is though that, for good and for ill, Morales' government has been trying to create a much more equal society (without anything like the authoritarianism found in Venezuela or Nicaragua), whereas Guatemala has continued to have very conservative, rightist governments even in recent years.

[Tooting Carmen]

Anyway, what do Latin Americans here think about interracial relationships, either at a personal or societal level?

[Valedictorian]

Anyway, what do Latin Americans here think about interracial relationships, either at a personal or societal level?

These days what matters the most is the color green ($), not the color of the skin. I'm pretty sure that applies to all Latin America.

[Tooting Carmen]

These days what matters the most is the color green ($), not the color of the skin. I'm pretty sure that applies to all Latin America.

Well as someone who is usually vehemently opposed to collectivist ways of thinking, would you nevertheless be uncomfortable with (certain types of) interracial relationships?

[Valedictorian]

Well as someone who is usually vehemently opposed to collectivist ways of thinking, would you nevertheless be uncomfortable with (certain types of) interracial relationships?

Not at all. I only put "White" under the ethnicity thing because that's the way the world sees me and treats me, but my personal identity is built around my personal skills and what I'm capable of, and I believe it's dumb to feel proud of one's ancestry as it is something the person didn't partake in. (Although I do think the study of man's origins and phenotypical characteristics is interesting, that's why I'm here, afterall.) So I wouldn't care at all if any of my relatives engaged in an interracial relationship, and neither do I close myself to the idea of having one in the future.

[Erronkari]

Difference is though that, for good and for ill, Morales' government has been trying to create a much more equal society (without anything like the authoritarianism found in Venezuela or Nicaragua), whereas Guatemala has continued to have very conservative, rightist governments even in recent years.

Ok, but Bolivia has something which don't have Guatemala.
The regionalism is probably the biggest of whole Latin-America.
People of the East of the country don't stand andean people, at the point that many of them don't consider that they are part of the same country. The relationship between them is really difficult, and for most of easterners Morales is bad-word.

[Tooting Carmen]

Not at all. I only put "White" under the ethnicity thing because that's the way the world sees me and treats me, but my personal identity is built around my personal skills and what I'm capable of, and I believe it's dumb to feel proud of one's ancestry as it is something the person didn't partake in. (Although I do think the study of man's origins and phenotypical characteristics is interesting, that's why I'm here, afterall.) So I wouldn't care at all if any of my relatives engaged in an interracial relationship, and neither do I close myself to the idea of having one in the future.

Well I am glad that makes two of us then. The problem in this forum is that many people - not least from Latin America, the most racially mixed continent on Earth - think that preserving real or imagined racial purity or homogeneity is a kind of moral end in itself.

[Valedictorian]

Well I am glad that makes two of us then. The problem in this forum is that many people - not least from Latin America, the most racially mixed continent on Earth - think that preserving real or imagined racial purity or homogeneity is a kind of moral end in itself.

That's right. It doesn't matter how fair skinned, light eyed, light haired we are, or how Northern European our skull shape is, or whatever the fuck else you can think of, we all have an Indian or Black grandma somewhere deep in our lineages.

[Tooting Carmen]

That's right. It doesn't matter how fair skinned, light eyed, light haired we are, or how Northern European our skull shape is, or whatever the fuck else you can think of, we all have an Indian or Black grandma somewhere deep in our lineages.

And conversely, many people who may appear to be fully Amerindian or fully Black probably have a White grandma somewhere along the lines.

[Valedictorian]

And conversely, many people who may appear to be fully Amerindian or fully Black probably have a White grandma somewhere along the lines.

Most likely a grandpa, though. :coffee:

[Kriptc06]

I'd say that Colombia still has a long way ahead to truly become a racially integrated country. Although sometimes Colombian society can be more classist than racist (such as accepting well off brown/black people into mainstream society), there is a very strong racist feeling hiding underneath. I remember that people used to bully A LOT a blond, blue eyed cousin I have and her darker-skinned boyfriend for being together. (And dude isn't even black, just like standard Mestizo, lol.) Despite my family being White on both sides (dad's vanilla Spaniard criollo with some English ancestry, my paternal grandma's surname is Home, and mom's family looks very NW Euro, they have 1 surname that might be either German or Polish and another that might be Irish or English), they have never been openly racist.

I sense that you're describing Brazil, that's the case here as well, more classist than racist, when deep down there they are racist in fact. My family, specially my grandparents were very racist, open and frank about it, my dad too, but he's more moderate about it. Funny that my mother isn't really white, she's pred-euro triracial, like my grandmother, still my grandparents were OK with her.

Interesting that you have English ancestry, that must not be common for a Colombian, right? Just like I am part Moldovan. cheers mate.

[Valedictorian]

Interesting that you have English ancestry, that must not be common for a Colombian, right? Just like I am part Moldovan. cheers mate.

Yeah I'm English on both dad's and mom's side (although mom's side is more ambiguously English, as the surname I think is English could also be Irish or French Norman.) Although I think I look more German than anything.

[Kriptc06]

Yeah I'm English on both dad's and mom's side (although mom's side is more ambiguously English, as the surname I think is English could also be Irish or French Norman.) Although I think I look more German than anything.

That's pretty dope man! So you've learned to speak English with them I presume

[Valedictorian]

That's pretty dope man! So you've learned to speak English with them I presume

No. The English ancestry is not recent, as far as I know, none of my grandparents nor great grandparents, nor great-greatparents were born in Europe. I learned to speak English by myself, and I was as fluent as a native speaker at around 10 to 12 years old. I'm also learning to speak German at the moment.

[Tooting Carmen]

No. The English ancestry is not recent, as far as I know, none of my grandparents nor great grandparents, nor great-greatparents were born in Europe. I learned to speak English by myself, and I was as fluent as a native speaker at around 10 to 12 years old. I'm also learning to speak German at the moment.

Would you also agree that, although Colombia at one level is very diverse, at the same time Mestizos are considered to be the norm and Colombians who both look fully White AND who look fully Black are, in their own ways, considered to some extent to be outsiders?

[Kriptc06]

No. The English ancestry is not recent, as far as I know, none of my grandparents nor great grandparents, nor great-greatparents were born in Europe. I learned to speak English by myself, and I was as fluent as a native speaker at around 10 to 12 years old. I'm also learning to speak German at the moment.

Oh alright, got ya. Same here, I've been learning english since I was a little kid, I studied my whole life in private schools, and I remember learning colors, animals, numbers etc, since kindergarden. I reached fluency by around 10-12 as well, often times people wonder if I am really Brazilian cause of my accent.

[Tooting Carmen]

Oh alright, got ya. Same here, I've been learning english since I was a little kid, I studied my whole life in private schools, and I remember learning colors, animals, numbers etc, since kindergarden. I reached fluency by around 10-12 as well, often times people wonder if I am really Brazilian cause of my accent.

Do you speak with an American or British accent?

[Valedictorian]

My dad does speak conversational English as it is mandatory for him to be able to establish at least a business conversation in English, whether he likes it or not, as he works in a Big Oil multinational company.

[Valedictorian]

Would you also agree that, although Colombia at one level is very diverse, at the same time Mestizos are considered to be the norm and Colombians who both look fully White AND who look fully Black are, in their own ways, considered to some extent to be outsiders?

Of course. It most certainly seems like you have lived in Colombia at least for a couple of years, haven't you?

[Kriptc06]

Do you speak with an American or British accent?

I can do many accents in fact, but my english one isn't very convincing, I sound more australian than anything, or so Ive been said. I normally speak with an american/canadian one.

[Tooting Carmen]

Of course. It most certainly seems like you have lived in Colombia at least for a couple of years, haven't you?

No, but I have visited it quite a few times, and the majority of my mother's family are still there. I am not saying that Whites or even for the most part Blacks are necessarily mistreated in Colombia, but 'mainstream' Mestizos often regard both as exotic and outside the norm.

[Valedictorian]

No, but I have visited it quite a few times, and the majority of my mother's family are still there. I am not saying that Whites or even for the most part Blacks are necessarily mistreated in Colombia, but 'mainstream' Mestizos often regard both as exotic and outside the norm.

Yup. If you're white you're worshipped as "monito" (even if you're dark haired like me, lol.) and if you're black you are held in contempt even if not openly.

[Tooting Carmen]

Yup. If you're white you're worshipped as "monito" (even if you're dark haired like me, lol.) and if you're black you are held in contempt even if not openly.

That's the point though - I don't think Mestizos worship or dislike either Whites or Blacks for the most part, they just see both as exotic and will often make no bones about letting you know as much. (I am thinking more of Mestizos from the Andean parts of Colombia - the ones along the coasts are much more integrated with Blacks, of course). With that being said, I think Whites with moderately dark, (pseudo) Mediterranean features can blend in as White or even Castizo Colombians, but those who look markedly Germanic or Slavic generally would not.

[Tooting Carmen]

bump

[Tooting Carmen]

bump

[Daven]

¿A qué te refieres exactamente? ¿Menos clásismo y/o racismo/colorismo? La pregunta es tan ambigua.

[Daven]

Hey QUICAS, are the Japanese in Brazil integrated with the rest of the population or are they still secluded to Liberdale?

As for the main question, I think it depends.

I've heard some people say they witnessed much more racial segregation and hate in Puerto Rico than Cuba. I never been to PR but Cuba was surprisingly integrated on a social/cultural level, albeit this isn't reflected politically or economically. In PR, black PR's are dominant in Loiza and certain other areas and, from what I've heard, the white and Tri-racial PR's tend to openly make nasty comments about black PR's as well as Dominican immigrants and segregate from them. It's pretty shocking considering how PR's in the U.S. are pretty "black friendly" as a whole.

Brazil seems fairly integrated in the Northeast/Southeast parts.

Paraguay has a lot of Amerindian influenced Mestizos who speak Guarani so that makes it a great candidate as well.

Mexico, Chile, and Costa Rica have a lot of integration between whites and Mesitzos.

Overall, I'd say Brazil when it comes to integration of all races/mixes.

Guatemala, on the other hand, is the WOAT in this aspect. Amerindian women have gotten abused and gang raped by Ladinos(Mestizos) for years, Garifunas/Blacks are shunned and disrespected, Whites/Criollos look down on all the them. Maya speaking Amerindians hold resentment towards Ladinos. Guatemala has been declared the most racist Central American country for quite some time now. The government also tried to genocide the Mayan population in the 80's.

https://www.culturalsurvival.org/news/combating-racism-against-indigenous-peoples-guatemala
https://cja.org/what-we-do/litigation/the-guatemala-genocide-case/

Say what you want about Argentines but they never pulled off something this sadistic in their country.

Puerto Rican/Dominican marriages are very common in the island and even more common here in the USA. Whoever told you that is a liar. A lot of island Puerto Rican do make nasty comments about Dominicans though and tend to be xenophobic/racist at times. But so do some Dominicans here in America towards USA boricuas (a lot have a stigma towards them). I've even seen this in my own family.

[Tooting Carmen]

¿A qué te refieres exactamente? ¿Menos clásismo y/o racismo/colorismo? La pregunta es tan ambigua.

Partly that, but principally where there is little ethnic division between neighbourhoods and where a broad range of phenotypes and races can be found among all social strata.

[Duffmannn]

Paraguay probably

[kratz]

Vote por Colombia. Hasta ahora de todos los latinos que he conocido pues los colombianos se identifican con el termino(Latinoamericano) y los vemos menos racista/coloristas en general. Con todos los demas paises los vi que se veian como de su nacionalidad primero. ¿ Que opinian ustedes?

[Duffmannn]

Vote por Colombia. Hasta ahora de todos los latinos que he conocido pues los colombianos se identifican con el termino(Latinoamericano) y los vemos menos racista/coloristas en general. Con todos los demas paises los vi que se veian como de su nacionalidad primero. ¿ Que opinian ustedes?

Precisamente Colombia es un país de los más racistas y clasistas.

[kratz]

Precisamente Colombia es un país de los más racistas y clasistas.

¿Querrás decir menos?

[Thetruth]

That's the point though - I don't think Mestizos worship or dislike either Whites or Blacks for the most part, they just see both as exotic and will often make no bones about letting you know as much. (I am thinking more of Mestizos from the Andean parts of Colombia - the ones along the coasts are much more integrated with Blacks, of course). With that being said, I think Whites with moderately dark, (pseudo) Mediterranean features can blend in as White or even Castizo Colombians, but those who look markedly Germanic or Slavic generally would not.

I hope I’m not butting in but isn’t that kinda what happens when an African-American and White American go to any place in Latin America where Mestizos dominate and they just stand out because both groups are paler/lighter and darker then them on average in comparison to your average mestizo of medium/olive skin tone

[SilverKnight]

Dominican Republic.

For what I have seen, outside of my country, in Brazil for example they couldn't stand someone black or mixed in some white regions, and vice-versa.
They look down on each other. Over here everyone is ... Dominican..

[Thetruth]

Dominican Republic.

For what I have seen, outside of my country, in Brazil for example they couldn't stand someone black or mixed in some white regions, and vice-versa.
They look down on each other. Over here everyone is ... Dominican..

I feel like it’s liver the fact that DR is a small country where everyone is related to eachother in some way, they’re like one family. Brazil on the other hand varies from region to region over the fact how big the country is where someone from Rio has never been to an Amazonian City like Manaus and vice versa.

[Daven]

I feel like it’s liver the fact that DR is a small country where everyone is related to eachother in some way, they’re like one family. Brazil on the other hand varies from region to region over the fact how big the country is where someone from Rio has never been to an Amazonian City like Manaus and vice versa.

Everyone related/family really? You could have explained your point bette LMAO. Also, the island is not as small as you think. There are marked geographic differences within our regions believe or not. I first saw the sea when I was 7 years old for example. My mom did when she was in her 20s. Seeing the ocean is a totally experience for the majority of Dominicans in fact because most of our population don't live along the coast but in in-land towns. Someone from Río that never been to Manaus can be comparable to how someone from San Pedro de Macorís (plain, coastal, hot and very cocolo-influence city) that has never been
to Jarabacoa, Sajoma or Constanza (mountanous cities) and so on. This is the reason why Dominicans stereotype each other. DR has 10 million people btw. You sound like we have a population of a few ten hundreds lol. Either I know where you're going but don't exaggerate haha

[Latinus]

Partly that, but principally where there is little ethnic division between neighbourhoods and where a broad range of phenotypes and races can be found among all social strata.

Well, that's not the case in Brazil. While my country never had (and doesn't have) racial segregation like in the US, there are lot's of social inequalities here, which also racial. It's true that you can find many whites in the working classes areas here, but blacks and pardos are way less common in the noble areas where the tradicional upper classes and new riches live.

And, to me, being an integrated country means it's racially diverse, not homogenous. If a country is homogenous, racial integration doesn't exist, because there aren't diference races to integrate with.

[Daven]

I feel like it’s liver the fact that DR is a small country where everyone is related to eachother in some way, they’re like one family. Brazil on the other hand varies from region to region over the fact how big the country is where someone from Rio has never been to an Amazonian City like Manaus and vice versa.

Don't mind my typos LMAO.

Anyways, DR is not a flat island like Cuba. In the Cordillera Central it gets under 32 F at times during the winter believe it or not. Populated places like Constanza has an attitude similar to Medellin or Cali. Lilis Valley, Tireo and Valle Nuevo have attitude more along the lines of Quito, Bogotá or México City. Jarabacoa is also at a high attitude though not as high as these places. I would compare it more with Caracas. Santiago de los Caballeros (second largest city) is probably more comparable to Caracas too except that is at a lower attitude compared to Jarabacoa. Pico Duarte, Alto Bandera, etc. have the coldest weather in the Antilles. That Cordillera Central is what divides the south from the north and the reason why these two regions kept insolated from each other for so long. Sierra de Bahoruco and Sierra de Neyba are also high cadenas montañosas. Azua is semi-desertic. The southeast coast region is a large plain and more like Cuba or Florida (very flat). It has a hotter climate as well. The capital is located here and most beach resort spots too. I grew up in La Romana after I turned 8 and I tell you than when I went to Espaillat after so many years I almost felt out of place. It felt so different one region from another. Most people in the F
DR haven't traveled all over the country despite the size. The most visited place shared by all is the capital. Everyone has relatives there.

Blue circle is Cordillera Central, violet is the Cibao Valley, red is the capital and yellow the East where I'm from.

https://images2.imagebam.com/b2/fe/62/f0f09a1339481420.jpg

[Daven]

@TheLie

[Daven]

I know, too many typos.

ps. Señor La Veldá , I know exactly what you said and the point you tried to make just in case. Just correcting you in a part. Not all Caribbean islands look exactly the same btw. I think that's a wrong impression most of you from bigger Latín American countries have. Well bye. I'm going to bed bwahaha

[hmaohma78]

Paraguay probably since almost every one there is mestizo or harnizo. Probably the homogeneous country in Latin America.

[Erronkari]

Paraguay probably since almost every one there is mestizo or harnizo. Probably the homogeneous country in Latin America.

Well, in that case El Salvador is in a similar situation to Paraguay, because same to the last one is extremely homogeneous by latinamerican standards, except that in Paraguay as you said most people are harnizos, in SV most people are balanced mestizos lesning indomestizos.

Even though I think that in a way Latinus is right when he says that It's good to measure this in extremely diverse countries.
But yes, Py and SV are good examples of integration due to their homegeneous population.
I don't mind there is possible to find discrimination cases.
Another interesting issue is the very scarce % of pues amerindian people in both (0.2% in SV and 1.8% in Py).
I don't think those two minorities feel discriminated.

[SilverKnight]

Brazilian society as whole is not integrated, since behavior, habits, tastes change of lot between social classes. The is an integration between upper class of all the country, but just that. Poors are not integrated between different states. Different social classes are almost non integrated.

Right, how on Earth is Brazil more integrated.

Dominican Republic
Puerto Rico
and Venezuela on my view are the most integrated ones.

[Daven]

If it's not Paraguay I am voting for Puerto Rico. Clasism in Venezuela, Brasil and the DR messes things up while in PR the social classes seem more integrated. The fact that they have a larger middle class and very low extreme poverty ratio helps a lot

[Daven]

Classism is a form of racism whether some people want to acknowledge it or not. ps. My other vote will be to Uruguay.

[SilverKnight]

I feel like it’s liver the fact that DR is a small country where everyone is related to eachother in some way, they’re like one family. Brazil on the other hand varies from region to region over the fact how big the country is where someone from Rio has never been to an Amazonian City like Manaus and vice versa.

Can't say everyone is related, but to an extent yes. On 23andme I have thousands of cousins I haven't even met,85% of them are Dominicans, followed by Cubans, Puerto Ricans and so on..But this thread isn't about homogeneity, it's more about like social/ racial integration, DR is a very integrated country, in that sense that we see each other as just that.. Dominican, vs countries like Brazil or Colombia where you still see racial disparities at a high level. Over here a black dude can be seen as valuable and respected as any lighter skin person.

[Daven]

Can't say everyone is related, but to an extent yes. On 23andme I have thousands of cousins I haven't even met,85% of them are Dominicans, followed by Cubans, Puerto Ricans and so on..But this thread isn't about homogeneity, it's more about like social/ racial integration, DR is a very integrated country, in that sense that we see each other as just that.. Dominican, vs countries like Brazil or Colombia where you still see racial disparities at a high level. Over here a black dude can be seen as valuable and respected as any lighter skin person.

Even in larger countries people can be related like that. It will just depend on their region/state/departamento. They have been insolated populations all over Latin American and especially in those countries with huge geographical differences. Even genetics show this.

[Thetruth]

Everyone related/family really? You could have explained your point bette LMAO. Also, the island is not as small as you think. There are marked geographic differences within our regions believe or not. I first saw the sea when I was 7 years old for example. My mom did when she was in her 20s. Seeing the ocean is a totally experience for the majority of Dominicans in fact because most of our population don't live along the coast but in in-land towns. Someone from Río that never been to Manaus can be comparable to how someone from San Pedro de Macorís (plain, coastal, hot and very cocolo-influence city) that has never been
to Jarabacoa, Sajoma or Constanza (mountanous cities) and so on. This is the reason why Dominicans stereotype each other. DR has 10 million people btw. You sound like we have a population of a few ten hundreds lol. Either I know where you're going but don't exaggerate haha

My mistake I meant that everyone in DR is more closely related with eachother then in Brazil since it’s bigger. Of course DR isn’t a tiny island that’s mostly uninhabited but more like a small country where everyone has closer ties to one another as opposed to Brazil where it varies from region to region since it’s more dispersed in terms of population.

[Thetruth]

Even in larger countries people can be related like that. It will just depend on their region/state/departamento. They have been insolated populations all over Latin American and especially in those countries with huge geographical differences. Even genetics show this.

Yeah that’s pretty much the case of the American South lol

[Erronkari]

It would be interesting to know how people would voted if the question would be made in the opposite sense: "The less racially-integrated country".

[Daven]

It would be interesting to know how people would voted if the question would be made in the opposite sense: "The less racially-integrated country".

Wow that would be an interesting thread. @TheTruth you should make one haha

[Daven]

My mistake I meant that everyone in DR is more closely related with eachother then in Brazil since it’s bigger. Of course DR isn’t a tiny island that’s mostly uninhabited but more like a small country where everyone has closer ties to one another as opposed to Brazil where it varies from region to region since it’s more dispersed in terms of population.

Don't worry my friend. I know exactly what you meant.