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la bombe
03-06-2011, 04:13 PM
This is a subject I've become interested and involved in, it's pretty fascinating IMO and offers the potential to use our scientific knowledge to create sustainable living environments.


Permaculture is an approach to designing human settlements and agricultural systems that are modeled on the relationships found in natural ecologies.

Permaculture is sustainable land use design. This is based on ecological and biological principles, often using patterns that occur in nature to maximise effect and minimise work. Permaculture aims to create stable, productive systems that provide for human needs, harmoniously integrating the land with its inhabitants. The ecological processes of plants, animals, their nutrient cycles, climatic factors and weather cycles are all part of the picture.

Inhabitants’ needs are provided for using proven technologies for food, energy, shelter and infrastructure. Elements in a system are viewed in relationship to other elements, where the outputs of one element become the inputs of another. Within a Permaculture system, work is minimised, "wastes" become resources, productivity and yields increase, and environments are restored. Permaculture principles can be applied to any environment, at any scale from dense urban settlements to individual homes, from farms to entire regions.

The first recorded modern practice of permaculture as a systematic method was by Austrian farmer Sepp Holzer in the 1960s, but the method was scientifically developed by Australians Bill Mollison and David Holmgren and their associates during the 1970s in a series of publications.

The word permaculture is described by Mollison as a portmanteau of permanent agriculture, and permanent culture.

The intent is that, by training individuals in a core set of design principles, those individuals can design their own environments and build increasingly self-sufficient human settlements — ones that reduce society's reliance on industrial systems of production and distribution that Mollison identified as fundamentally and systematically destroying Earth's ecosystems.

While originating as an agro-ecological design theory, permaculture has developed a large international following. This "permaculture community" continues to expand on the original ideas, integrating a range of ideas of alternative culture, through a network of publications, permaculture gardens, intentional communities, training programs, and internet forums. In this way, permaculture has become a form of architecture of nature and ecology as well as an informal institution of alternative social ideals.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permaculture

I live in a desert so I was interested in how these ideas could be applied in a more arid climate and I found this documentary called "Greening the Desert". Apparently they've experimented with these techniques in Jordan. Here's a little basic overview of the project

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And the full documentary

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Part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTZ0LbvUoOY) Part 3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ps1TpK9eiQ) Part 4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8wPD35fewo)

Jägerstaffel
03-06-2011, 04:19 PM
These types of projects are brilliant and should be further developed.
It could benefit humanity, unfortunately I can imagine there would be obstacles in large-scale application. All good ideas seem to get ignored.

Bloodeagle
03-06-2011, 04:19 PM
I have been a fan of permaculture for some time now. Bill Mollison is one of my idols. :thumb001:

la bombe
03-06-2011, 04:27 PM
These types of projects are brilliant and should be further developed.
It could benefit humanity, unfortunately I can imagine there would be obstacles in large-scale application. All good ideas seem to get ignored.

Well, they're not ignored, they're just antithetical to large-scale agricultural production and would potentially cut into agribusiness profits in a major way. Even ignoring the environment, there's no doubt that these kinds of things could be hugely beneficial on an individual and community level but of course, a healthy community is a threat to globalization!


I have been a fan of permaculture for some time now. Bill Mollison is one of my idols. :thumb001:

I joined a permaculture project in my area and the guy who runs always talks about how much he likes him haha. There's no doubt he's doing amazing work though.

Electronic God-Man
03-06-2011, 04:39 PM
I like the idea, generally speaking. However, I also get the sense that transforming deserts on a large-scale is likely to result in unexpected consequences. I mean, deserts are good for something, yes?

It reminds me of other utilitarian attempts to control wilderness for the benefit of humans. It doesn't always end well. This guy sounds like he knows what he's doing, but I still wouldn't want to see huge sections of areas that have been desert for ages to be transformed so that more human life can be sustained.


PS. Bloodeagle, are those tabs of acid as your avatar?

Jägerstaffel
03-06-2011, 04:45 PM
I like the idea, generally speaking. However, I also get the sense that transforming deserts on a large-scale is likely to result in unexpected consequences. I mean, deserts are good for something, yes?

It reminds me of other utilitarian attempts to control wilderness for the benefit of humans. It doesn't always end well. This guy sounds like he knows what he's doing, but I still wouldn't want to see huge sections of areas that have been desert for ages to be transformed so that more human life can be sustained.


PS. Bloodeagle, are those tabs of acid as your avatar?


We'll lose the spice melange if we terraform the deserts.
http://images.wikia.com/scifi/images/2/29/Third-Stage_Guild_Navigator.jpg

la bombe
03-06-2011, 04:49 PM
I like the idea, generally speaking. However, I also get the sense that transforming deserts on a large-scale is likely to result in unexpected consequences. I mean, deserts are good for something, yes?

It reminds me of other utilitarian attempts to control wilderness for the benefit of humans. It doesn't always end well. This guy sounds like he knows what he's doing, but I still wouldn't want to see huge sections of areas that have been desert for ages to be transformed so that more human life can be sustained.


PS. Bloodeagle, are those tabs of acid as your avatar?

The thing is, there's no shortage of deserts in the world. We are creating desertification through deforestation, large-scale industrial production, diminishing natural water resources, etc. We're already subverting and controlling nature for profit as it is, these type of permaculture projects could be a means of counterbalancing negative environmental impact and creating a more locally based food source.

Electronic God-Man
03-06-2011, 04:53 PM
The thing is, there's no shortage of deserts in the world. We are creating desertification through deforestation, large-scale industrial production, diminishing natural water resources, etc. We're already subverting and controlling nature for profit as it is, these type of permaculture projects could be a means of counterbalancing negative environmental impact and creating a more locally based food source.

Then I would suggest starting with using permaculture to restore areas that have become deserts through deforestation, large-scale industrial production, and diminishing water resources first, not with natural, long-standing deserts.

la bombe
03-06-2011, 05:02 PM
Then I would suggest starting with using permaculture to restore areas that have become deserts through deforestation, large-scale industrial production, and diminishing water resources first, not with natural, long-standing deserts.

A LOT of resources go into supplying deserts with water, food etc. I'm guessing that creating smaller yet completely self-sustaining ecosystems in harsh environments would probably cause far less environmental damage than continuing the artificial systems we currently have in place, which happen to depend heavily on fossil fuels and such. It could also help replenish ground water supplies

la bombe
03-06-2011, 07:30 PM
BTW, it should definitely be mentioned that these concepts are not limited to deserts or any other specific kind of environment. It's about creating sustainable ecosystems wherever humans happen to live.

One of the reasons I posted this thread was because I remembered a conversation I had with someone about Detroit, and how these principles might help "save" struggling industrial cities that grew to rely on outside food sources which I think is an incredibly interesting concept.

Bloodeagle
03-07-2011, 01:32 AM
PS. Bloodeagle, are those tabs of acid as your avatar?

You got it Toyota! That's Orange Sunshine blotter on there! :D

Deserts can support a surprising amount of biomass when proper water collection and conservation is used with sustainable agricultural practices.
Through rain water collection using cisterns and sand wadi's, use of gray-water for irrigation and proper soil building techniques, anyone can have an oasis in the desert.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51V5T3TABRL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg (http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0908228015/ref=sib_dp_pt#reader-link)

Aemma
03-07-2011, 11:21 PM
BTW, it should definitely be mentioned that these concepts are not limited to deserts or any other specific kind of environment. It's about creating sustainable ecosystems wherever humans happen to live.

One of the reasons I posted this thread was because I remembered a conversation I had with someone about Detroit, and how these principles might help "save" struggling industrial cities that grew to rely on outside food sources which I think is an incredibly interesting concept.

Another thinker you may enjoy is Carolyn Steel, author of The Hungry City (http://www.hungrycitybook.co.uk/blog/?page_id=9), an architect out of the UK who has been examining the issue of how cities feed themselves. I listened to a podcast of hers last night and she's brilliant.

I've a good book on permaculture on a smaller scale: Gaia's Garden: A Guide to Home-Scale Permaculture by Toby Hemenway. It's very good and offers a wealth of information for the home gardener.

la bombe
03-07-2011, 11:45 PM
Another thinker you may enjoy is Carolyn Steel, author of The Hungry City (http://www.hungrycitybook.co.uk/blog/?page_id=9), an architect out of the UK who has been examining the issue of how cities feed themselves. I listened to a podcast of hers last night and she's brilliant.

Oh, thanks for reminding me! One of my friends linked me to a video of her long ago but I never got around to watching it

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Daos
03-16-2011, 09:05 AM
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The Lawspeaker
08-29-2011, 02:11 AM
About Sepp Holzer (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20184&highlight=sepp+holzer).
But if you feel lazy you might just as well enjoy the full program here:

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More about the man can be found here (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20207&highlight=sepp+holzer) (in German).