Spain autosomally closer to Austria/Germany/Netherlands/England than to Sicily?

[Sikeliot]

Based on GEDMatch results I have seen, the Spanish are closer to Austria/Germany and in some cases even southern England, than to Sicily.

Now, it is undeniable Spanish are closer to NORTH Italians and Tuscans than to any of the above, but when it comes to NW Europe or Sicily, they appear closer to the former.

Is this a persistent pattern? Here are some Spanish results, does anyone have others that either prove or counter this?

Galicia:
# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 40.14
2 West_Med 29.22
3 East_Med 13.43
4 Baltic 9.91
5 Red_Sea 3.33
6 Sub-Saharan 1.76
7 West_Asian 0.84
8 Northeast_African 0.45
9 Oceanian 0.4
10 East_Asian 0.27
11 Amerindian 0.24

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 3.03
2 Spanish_Valencia 3.24
3 Spanish_Murcia 3.76
4 Spanish_Extremadura 3.8
5 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 3.84
6 Spanish_Cantabria 3.85
7 Spanish_Andalucia 3.9
8 Spanish_Aragon 4.39
9 Spanish_Galicia 4.54
10 Portuguese 4.63
11 Spanish_Cataluna 4.81
12 Southwest_French 6.23
13 North_Italian 11.24
14 French 12.3
15 French_Basque 15.97
16 Tuscan 17.12
17 South_Dutch 18.36
18 West_German 18.81
19 Southeast_English 22.03
20 Southwest_English 22.14

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 92.2% Spanish_Cantabria + 7.8% Tunisian @ 2.28
2 92.1% Spanish_Cantabria + 7.9% Algerian @ 2.38
3 90.2% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + 9.8% Sardinian @ 2.39
4 91.8% Spanish_Cantabria + 8.2% Algerian_Jewish @ 2.42
5 92.3% Spanish_Cantabria + 7.7% Mozabite_Berber @ 2.43
6 55.6% Spanish_Extremadura + 44.4% Spanish_Aragon @ 2.43
7 91.7% Spanish_Cantabria + 8.3% Italian_Jewish @ 2.45
8 92.7% Spanish_Cantabria + 7.3% Tunisian_Jewish @ 2.46
9 95.2% Spanish_Cantabria + 4.8% Yemenite_Jewish @ 2.47
10 92.8% Spanish_Cantabria + 7.2% Libyan_Jewish @ 2.5
11 92% Spanish_Cantabria + 8% Sephardic_Jewish @ 2.52
12 91.1% Spanish_Aragon + 8.9% Tunisian @ 2.53
13 94.3% Spanish_Cantabria + 5.7% Egyptian @ 2.57
14 92.6% Spanish_Cantabria + 7.4% Moroccan @ 2.58
15 91% Spanish_Aragon + 9% Mozabite_Berber @ 2.59
16 98.7% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + 1.3% Yoruban @ 2.59
17 50.6% Spanish_Extremadura + 49.4% Spanish_Cantabria @ 2.6
18 52% Spanish_Aragon + 48% Portuguese @ 2.62
19 98.6% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + 1.4% Mandenka @ 2.62
20 91% Spanish_Aragon + 9% Algerian @ 2.63


Galicia:
# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 38.31
2 West_Med 26.39
3 Baltic 13.89
4 East_Med 8.37
5 Red_Sea 4.2
6 West_Asian 3.94
7 Northeast_African 2.03
8 Siberian 1.59
9 South_Asian 0.78
10 Oceanian 0.33
11 Sub-Saharan 0.17

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Spanish_Galicia 4.38
2 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 5.69
3 Portuguese 5.76
4 Spanish_Cantabria 5.84
5 Spanish_Cataluna 6.25
6 Spanish_Extremadura 6.38
7 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 6.54
8 Southwest_French 6.61
9 Spanish_Murcia 7.35
10 Spanish_Valencia 7.83
11 Spanish_Andalucia 7.88
12 French 8.63
13 Spanish_Aragon 8.91
14 North_Italian 11.97
15 South_Dutch 13.87
16 West_German 14.35
17 French_Basque 18.02
18 Tuscan 18.05
19 Austrian 18.33
20 Southwest_English 18.36

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 87.6% Spanish_Cantabria + 12.4% Tatar @ 2.98
2 90.1% Spanish_Cantabria + 9.9% Chuvash @ 3.16
3 86.9% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + 13.1% Kargopol_Russian @ 3.21
4 87.8% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + 12.2% Erzya @ 3.24
5 88.8% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + 11.2% Chuvash @ 3.35
6 91% Spanish_Cantabria + 9% Mari @ 3.36
7 84.2% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + 15.8% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 3.43
8 87.6% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + 12.4% East_Finnish @ 3.44
9 86.4% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + 13.6% Tatar @ 3.48
10 86.7% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + 13.3% Russian_Smolensk @ 3.57
11 83.9% Spanish_Cantabria + 16.1% Moldavian @ 3.58
12 85.6% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + 14.4% Polish @ 3.61
13 89.9% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + 10.1% Mari @ 3.62
14 88.2% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + 11.8% Lithuanian @ 3.63
15 87.2% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + 12.8% Finnish @ 3.63
16 85.1% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + 14.9% Ukrainian @ 3.64
17 86.9% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + 13.1% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 3.65
18 90% Spanish_Cantabria + 10% Erzya @ 3.65
19 87% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + 13% Estonian_Polish @ 3.65
20 87.5% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + 12.5% Estonian @ 3.66

Asturias:
# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 35.98
2 West_Med 26.73
3 East_Med 15.6
4 Baltic 13.97
5 Red_Sea 4.19
6 Sub-Saharan 2.38
7 East_Asian 0.8
8 Oceanian 0.32
9 Northeast_African 0.01

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Portuguese 4.98
2 Spanish_Galicia 5.13
3 Spanish_Extremadura 5.85
4 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 6.38
5 Spanish_Valencia 6.4
6 Spanish_Murcia 6.55
7 Spanish_Cataluna 6.87
8 Spanish_Andalucia 7.87
9 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 7.88
10 Spanish_Cantabria 8.2
11 North_Italian 8.62
12 Southwest_French 9.59
13 Spanish_Aragon 10.06
14 French 11.57
15 Tuscan 14.21
16 South_Dutch 17.3
17 West_German 17.34
18 Serbian 19.27
19 Romanian 19.37
20 Austrian 20.33

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 90.3% Spanish_Galicia + 9.7% Ashkenazi @ 4.24
2 91.7% Spanish_Galicia + 8.3% Algerian_Jewish @ 4.33
3 86.6% Southwest_French + 13.4% Yemenite_Jewish @ 4.33
4 73.4% Spanish_Galicia + 26.6% North_Italian @ 4.36
5 88.3% Spanish_Galicia + 11.7% Greek_Thessaly @ 4.36
6 83.6% Spanish_Galicia + 16.4% Tuscan @ 4.39
7 92% Spanish_Galicia + 8% Italian_Jewish @ 4.41
8 92.8% Spanish_Galicia + 7.2% Tunisian @ 4.43
9 88.7% Spanish_Galicia + 11.3% West_Sicilian @ 4.44
10 89.2% Spanish_Galicia + 10.8% Bulgarian @ 4.51
11 91.1% Spanish_Galicia + 8.9% East_Sicilian @ 4.52
12 84% Southwest_French + 16% Egyptian @ 4.53
13 91.2% Spanish_Galicia + 8.8% Central_Greek @ 4.53
14 93.6% Spanish_Galicia + 6.4% Tunisian_Jewish @ 4.55
15 95.9% Spanish_Galicia + 4.1% Yemenite_Jewish @ 4.56
16 93.3% Spanish_Galicia + 6.7% Algerian @ 4.57
17 92.9% Spanish_Galicia + 7.1% Sephardic_Jewish @ 4.57
18 94.5% Spanish_Galicia + 5.5% Cyprian @ 4.57
19 91.9% Spanish_Galicia + 8.1% South_Italian @ 4.57
20 93.5% Spanish_Galicia + 6.5% Mozabite_Berber @ 4.59


Catalunya:
# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 42.77
2 West_Med 29.29
3 East_Med 12.46
4 Baltic 10.11
5 Red_Sea 2.61
6 Northeast_African 0.93
7 Oceanian 0.66
8 West_Asian 0.53
9 South_Asian 0.5
10 Siberian 0.14

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Spanish_Aragon 2.25
2 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 2.79
3 Spanish_Cantabria 2.87
4 Spanish_Valencia 3.8
5 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 4.17
6 Spanish_Cataluna 4.74
7 Spanish_Murcia 4.74
8 Southwest_French 4.9
9 Spanish_Andalucia 4.97
10 Spanish_Extremadura 5.71
11 Spanish_Galicia 5.77
12 Portuguese 5.95
13 French 11.85
14 North_Italian 13.18
15 French_Basque 13.82
16 South_Dutch 17.66
17 West_German 18.32
18 Tuscan 19.21
19 Southwest_English 20.68
20 Southeast_English 20.75

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 96% Spanish_Aragon + 4% Estonian_Polish @ 1.44
2 96.1% Spanish_Aragon + 3.9% Belorussian @ 1.44
3 96.5% Spanish_Aragon + 3.5% Lithuanian @ 1.47
4 96.1% Spanish_Aragon + 3.9% Russian_Smolensk @ 1.48
5 96.1% Spanish_Aragon + 3.9% Southwest_Russian @ 1.48
6 94.8% Spanish_Aragon + 5.2% Croatian @ 1.49
7 95.6% Spanish_Aragon + 4.4% Ukrainian @ 1.49
8 95.8% Spanish_Aragon + 4.2% Polish @ 1.5
9 95.5% Spanish_Aragon + 4.5% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 1.51
10 95.5% Spanish_Aragon + 4.5% South_Polish @ 1.52
11 96.2% Spanish_Aragon + 3.8% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 1.52
12 77.2% Spanish_Aragon + 22.8% Spanish_Galicia @ 1.54
13 70.2% Spanish_Aragon + 29.8% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 1.54
14 94.9% Spanish_Aragon + 5.1% Moldavian @ 1.56
15 96.4% Spanish_Aragon + 3.6% Estonian @ 1.57
16 96.7% Spanish_Aragon + 3.3% Erzya @ 1.58
17 96.5% Spanish_Aragon + 3.5% Kargopol_Russian @ 1.58
18 94% Spanish_Aragon + 6% Serbian @ 1.58
19 78.2% Spanish_Aragon + 21.8% Portuguese @ 1.59
20 94.4% Spanish_Aragon + 5.6% Hungarian @ 1.6


Asturias:
# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 42.01
2 West_Med 28.02
3 East_Med 14.27
4 Baltic 9.75
5 Red_Sea 2.69
6 Oceanian 1.77
7 Sub-Saharan 0.84
8 East_Asian 0.53
9 West_Asian 0.06
10 Siberian 0.06

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Spanish_Valencia 3.22
2 Spanish_Aragon 4.05
3 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 4.07
4 Spanish_Murcia 4.14
5 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 4.36
6 Spanish_Cataluna 4.62
7 Spanish_Cantabria 4.71
8 Spanish_Andalucia 5.1
9 Portuguese 5.34
10 Spanish_Extremadura 5.39
11 Spanish_Galicia 5.92
12 Southwest_French 6.89
13 French 11.89
14 North_Italian 12.18
15 French_Basque 15.7
16 South_Dutch 17.87
17 Tuscan 17.9
18 West_German 18.32
19 Southeast_English 21.09
20 Southwest_English 21.26

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 62.7% Spanish_Valencia + 37.3% Spanish_Aragon @ 2.65
2 91.5% Spanish_Valencia + 8.5% French_Basque @ 2.88
3 61.2% Spanish_Aragon + 38.8% Portuguese @ 2.88
4 99% Spanish_Valencia + 1% Papuan @ 2.98
5 51.1% Spanish_Aragon + 48.9% Spanish_Murcia @ 3.04
6 99% Spanish_Valencia + 1% NAN_Melanesian @ 3.04
7 78.1% Spanish_Valencia + 21.9% Spanish_Cantabria @ 3.06
8 78.3% Spanish_Valencia + 21.7% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 3.14
9 81.8% Spanish_Valencia + 18.2% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 3.15
10 92.6% Spanish_Aragon + 7.4% Ashkenazi @ 3.16
11 91.9% Spanish_Valencia + 8.1% Southwest_French @ 3.17
12 54.3% Spanish_Aragon + 45.7% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 3.17
13 57.2% Spanish_Aragon + 42.8% Spanish_Cataluna @ 3.18
14 88.8% Spanish_Valencia + 11.2% Spanish_Murcia @ 3.2
15 99.4% Spanish_Valencia + 0.6% Southwest_English @ 3.22
16 99.8% Spanish_Valencia + 0.2% West_Scottish @ 3.22
17 100% Spanish_Valencia + 0% Abhkasian @ 3.22
18 100% Spanish_Valencia + 0% Adygei @ 3.22
19 100% Spanish_Valencia + 0% Afghan_Pashtun @ 3.22
20 100% Spanish_Valencia + 0% Afghan_Tadjik @ 3.22


Andalusia:
# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 41.92
2 West_Med 27.48
3 East_Med 16.44
4 Baltic 9.08
5 Red_Sea 2.31
6 Northeast_African 0.75
7 Amerindian 0.55
8 Oceanian 0.55
9 West_Asian 0.5
10 South_Asian 0.42

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Spanish_Valencia 2.91
2 Spanish_Murcia 3.45
3 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 4.29
4 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 4.62
5 Spanish_Aragon 4.77
6 Spanish_Andalucia 4.77
7 Spanish_Cataluna 5.02
8 Spanish_Extremadura 5.27
9 Portuguese 5.36
10 Spanish_Cantabria 6.13
11 Spanish_Galicia 6.51
12 Southwest_French 8.25
13 North_Italian 11.25
14 French 12.29
15 Tuscan 16.71
16 French_Basque 16.9
17 South_Dutch 18.4
18 West_German 18.72
19 Southeast_English 21.75
20 Southwest_English 22.1

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 80% Spanish_Valencia + 20% Spanish_Aragon @ 2.75
2 69.7% Spanish_Valencia + 30.3% Spanish_Murcia @ 2.77
3 98.8% Spanish_Valencia + 1.2% Yemenite_Jewish @ 2.83
4 88.8% Spanish_Aragon + 11.2% Ashkenazi @ 2.87
5 99.1% Spanish_Valencia + 0.9% Saudi @ 2.87
6 99.4% Spanish_Valencia + 0.6% Ethiopian_Tigray @ 2.88
7 99.4% Spanish_Valencia + 0.6% Ethiopian_Amhara @ 2.89
8 99.3% Spanish_Valencia + 0.7% Egyptian @ 2.9
9 99.1% Spanish_Valencia + 0.9% Libyan_Jewish @ 2.9
10 99.2% Spanish_Valencia + 0.8% Tunisian_Jewish @ 2.9
11 99.2% Spanish_Valencia + 0.8% Italian_Jewish @ 2.9
12 99.3% Spanish_Valencia + 0.7% Algerian @ 2.9
13 98.7% Spanish_Valencia + 1.3% French_Basque @ 2.91
14 99.7% Spanish_Valencia + 0.3% Ethiopian_Oromo @ 2.91
15 99.7% Spanish_Valencia + 0.3% Ethiopian_Wolayta @ 2.91
16 99.7% Spanish_Valencia + 0.3% Somali @ 2.91
17 99.4% Spanish_Valencia + 0.6% Moroccan @ 2.91
18 99.4% Spanish_Valencia + 0.6% Sephardic_Jewish @ 2.91
19 99.6% Spanish_Valencia + 0.4% Palestinian @ 2.91
20 99.5% Spanish_Valencia + 0.5% Tunisian @ 2.91

[Sikeliot]

Because of the higher North African and East Med in the Portuguese, some Portuguese are closer to Sicily than to NW Europe, so this pattern seems to not apply as much to them.

Examples:

#1:

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 34.47
2 West_Med 28.75
3 East_Med 12
4 Baltic 10.8
5 Red_Sea 4.75
6 Sub-Saharan 3.16
7 South_Asian 2.02
8 Northeast_African 1.66
9 West_Asian 1.22
10 East_Asian 1.04
11 Oceanian 0.13

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Spanish_Galicia 5.06
2 Spanish_Extremadura 5.37
3 Portuguese 6.07
4 Spanish_Andalucia 6.95
5 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 6.99
6 Spanish_Murcia 7.15
7 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 7.29
8 Spanish_Valencia 7.59
9 Spanish_Cantabria 7.77
10 Spanish_Cataluna 8.24
11 Southwest_French 9.56
12 Spanish_Aragon 9.72
13 North_Italian 10.08
14 French 13.68
15 Tuscan 15.43
16 South_Dutch 19.4
17 West_German 19.58
18 French_Basque 19.99
19 West_Sicilian 21.25
20 Romanian 21.47

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 77.3% Southwest_French + 22.7% Mozabite_Berber @ 2.39
2 77.4% Southwest_French + 22.6% Algerian @ 2.64
3 78.1% Southwest_French + 21.9% Tunisian @ 2.69
4 77.7% Southwest_French + 22.3% Moroccan @ 2.81
5 81.5% Spanish_Cantabria + 18.5% Mozabite_Berber @ 3
6 81.8% Spanish_Cantabria + 18.2% Moroccan @ 3.16
7 82.2% Spanish_Cantabria + 17.8% Tunisian @ 3.22
8 81.6% Spanish_Cantabria + 18.4% Algerian @ 3.25
9 89.4% Spanish_Galicia + 10.6% Mozabite_Berber @ 3.44
10 87.8% Spanish_Galicia + 12.2% Sardinian @ 3.49
11 89.8% Spanish_Galicia + 10.2% Moroccan @ 3.53
12 90.1% Spanish_Galicia + 9.9% Algerian @ 3.7
13 90.4% Spanish_Galicia + 9.6% Tunisian @ 3.71
14 83.7% Southwest_French + 16.3% Egyptian @ 4.14
15 97% Spanish_Galicia + 3% Bantu_N.E. @ 4.19
16 97.1% Spanish_Galicia + 2.9% Luhya @ 4.19
17 97.2% Spanish_Galicia + 2.8% Biaka_Pygmy @ 4.19
18 97.3% Spanish_Galicia + 2.7% Bantu_S.E. @ 4.2
19 97.4% Spanish_Galicia + 2.6% Bantu_S.W. @ 4.2
20 97.4% Spanish_Galicia + 2.6% Mandenka @ 4.21



#2:

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 34.11
2 West_Med 26.26
3 East_Med 14.35
4 Baltic 9.33
5 Red_Sea 5.06
6 Sub-Saharan 4.03
7 Northeast_African 3.07
8 West_Asian 2.97
9 East_Asian 0.53
10 Siberian 0.22
11 Oceanian 0.06

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Spanish_Extremadura 5.46
2 Portuguese 6.03
3 Spanish_Galicia 6.52
4 Spanish_Murcia 7.05
5 Spanish_Andalucia 7.43
6 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 7.48
7 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 8.35
8 Spanish_Valencia 8.5
9 North_Italian 8.82
10 Spanish_Cataluna 8.97
11 Spanish_Cantabria 9.82
12 Spanish_Aragon 11.12
13 Southwest_French 12.14
14 Tuscan 13.22
15 French 13.94
16 West_Sicilian 18.78
17 West_German 19.59
18 South_Dutch 19.7
19 Italian_Abruzzo 20
20 Greek_Thessaly 20.39

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 77% Spanish_Cataluna + 23% Mozabite_Berber @ 2.1
2 75.9% Spanish_Cantabria + 24.1% Tunisian @ 2.31
3 77.4% Spanish_Cataluna + 22.6% Moroccan @ 2.32
4 75.2% Spanish_Cantabria + 24.8% Algerian @ 2.39
5 80.5% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + 19.5% Mozabite_Berber @ 2.4
6 85.6% Spanish_Extremadura + 14.4% Mozabite_Berber @ 2.41
7 75.4% Spanish_Cantabria + 24.6% Mozabite_Berber @ 2.46
8 82.9% Spanish_Galicia + 17.1% Mozabite_Berber @ 2.53
9 84.2% Portuguese + 15.8% Mozabite_Berber @ 2.56
10 85.9% Spanish_Extremadura + 14.1% Algerian @ 2.68
11 77.2% Spanish_Cataluna + 22.8% Algerian @ 2.69
12 94.7% Spanish_Extremadura + 5.3% San @ 2.75
13 93.9% Spanish_Extremadura + 6.1% Sandawe @ 2.75
14 86.5% Spanish_Extremadura + 13.5% Tunisian @ 2.75
15 83.6% Spanish_Galicia + 16.4% Tunisian @ 2.77
16 83% Spanish_Galicia + 17% Algerian @ 2.78
17 86.3% Spanish_Extremadura + 13.7% Moroccan @ 2.78
18 81.2% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + 18.8% Tunisian @ 2.78
19 95% Spanish_Extremadura + 5% Mbuti_Pygmy @ 2.82
20 80.7% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + 19.3% Algerian @ 2.82

[Sikeliot]

FYI I will add, Spain is closer to England and the Germanic countries than to Ireland, which disproves this "Ireland and Spain" connection.

[Catarinense1998]

Interesting.

[Tooting Carmen]

Is this the case with all Spanish regions, or only some of them?

[Grace O'Malley]

FYI I will add, Spain is closer to England and the Germanic countries than to Ireland, which disproves this "Ireland and Spain" connection.

I've added your thread to this link. That Ireland - Spanish link will not die. :)

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?245880-Are-Spanish-more-related-to-Germans-or-Irish&highlight=irish

[Sikeliot]

Is this the case with all Spanish regions, or only some of them?

Probably all of them except those nearer to Portugal where there is higher MENA. But the area near the Pyrenees or most of central Spain, certainly is closer to NW Europe autosomally.

Notice the two Portuguese results I posted come closer to Sicily, even if slightly. Or at least to the Trapani cluster, which has higher North African than other clusters in Sicily.

[Tooting Carmen]

Probably all of them except those nearer to Portugal where there is higher MENA. But the area near the Pyrenees or most of central Spain, certainly is closer to NW Europe autosomally.

Notice the two Portuguese results I posted come closer to Sicily, even if slightly. Or at least to the Trapani cluster, which has higher North African than other clusters in Sicily.

Well contrary to the Italic Roots propagandists, Spaniards from the regions closer to France are definitely lighter and more Continental-shifted than are Sicilians, but I wouldn't go so far as to say they look closer to NW Europeans than to Sicilians.

[Sikeliot]

Well contrary to the Italic Roots propagandists, Spaniards from the regions closer to France are definitely lighter and more Continental-shifted than are Sicilians, but I wouldn't go so far as to say they look closer to NW Europeans than to Sicilians.

It depends.

Someone who looks like this -- if this is a common Spanish look, could pass in nearly all of Europe (including UK and Sicily) but I'd say this look is more common to Britain than Sicily.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?246074-classify-spanish-actress-Clara-Alvarado

But people who look like Penelope Cruz or Raul Albiol would definitely not be closer to NW Europe.

[Tooting Carmen]

It depends.

Someone who looks like this -- if this is a common Spanish look, could pass in nearly all of Europe (including UK and Sicily) but I'd say this look is more common to Britain than Sicily.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?246074-classify-spanish-actress-Clara-Alvarado

But people who look like Penelope Cruz or Raul Albiol would definitely not be closer to NW Europe.

Alvarado looks Nordo-Med rather than wholesale NW Euro imo.

[Sikeliot]

Alvarado looks Nordo-Med rather than wholesale NW Euro imo.

Maybe, but I would still say she could at least on a surface level fit better in the UK. In the US she'd be taken for WASP over Italian American probably.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Because of the higher North African and East Med in the Portuguese, some Portuguese are closer to Sicily than to NW Europe, so this pattern seems to not apply as much to them.

This pattern does apply to Portugueses as well. You can find Spaniards who are closer to Sicily than to NW Europe but those are the expections and it is not like it really matters because they are nonetheless still distant from Sicilians and NW Europeans.

Portugueses do not score higher East Med than Spaniards, it is virtually the same (and slightly less than certain Spanish autonomous regions). If by North African you mean the "Northeast African" component on K13 then it is also about the same, especially with the examples you gave which are Western Iberians (Galicians and Asturians).

[Sikeliot]

This pattern does apply to Portugueses as well. You can find Spaniards who are closer to Sicily than to NW Europe but those are the expections and it is not like it really matters because they are nonetheless still distant from Sicilians and NW Europeans.

Portugueses do not score higher East Med than Spaniards, it is virtually the same (and slightly less than certain Spanish autonomous regions). If by North African you mean the "Northeast African" component on K13 then it is also about the same, especially with the examples you gave which are Western Iberians (Galicians and Asturians).


Which are you closer to in your oracles -- Sicily or NW Europe? If you could post your Eurogenes K13 I'd be curious to see.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Viriato:

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Portuguese @ 3.215370
2 Spanish_Extremadura @ 3.936081
3 Spanish_Galicia @ 4.881670
4 Spanish_Murcia @ 5.046734
5 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 5.259797
6 Spanish_Andalucia @ 5.653936
7 Spanish_Cataluna @ 5.688403
8 Spanish_Valencia @ 6.000964
9 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 6.372850
10 Spanish_Cantabria @ 8.119514
11 North_Italian @ 8.310184
12 Spanish_Aragon @ 9.900537
13 Southwest_French @ 10.285468
14 French @ 11.368635
15 Tuscan @ 15.305655
16 West_German @ 17.953896
17 South_Dutch @ 18.148836
18 Romanian @ 21.482246
19 Serbian @ 21.658739
20 Austrian @ 22.543196


Mrs. Viriato:

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 3.741100
2 Spanish_Extremadura @ 3.795190
3 Spanish_Murcia @ 3.830904
4 Portuguese @ 3.962910
5 Spanish_Cataluna @ 4.015786
6 Spanish_Valencia @ 4.130913
7 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 4.250757
8 Spanish_Galicia @ 4.385173
9 Spanish_Cantabria @ 5.091105
10 Spanish_Andalucia @ 5.180065
11 Spanish_Aragon @ 6.741738
12 Southwest_French @ 7.627425
13 French @ 11.397241
14 North_Italian @ 12.149957
15 South_Dutch @ 18.186258
16 West_German @ 18.454763
17 Tuscan @ 19.102610
18 French_Basque @ 19.568684
19 Southeast_English @ 22.691122
20 Southwest_English @ 23.106960




Sicily doesn't even show up on both of us, as an example.

[Sikeliot]

Sicily doesn't even show up on both of us, as an example.

The Portuguese I posted were Madeiran, if that makes any difference.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

The Portuguese I posted were Madeiran, if that makes any difference.

It does make a difference because you've posted a guy that scores 7% SSA+Northeast African on Eurogenes K13 when the Portuguese average on K13 is not even 3%. That's more than twice than average.

[FilhoV]

FilhoV

Eurogenes K13 Oracle results:

K13 Oracle ref data revised 21 Nov 2013

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 37.18
2 West_Med 26.89
3 East_Med 14.93
4 Baltic 9.47
5 West_Asian 3.35
6 Red_Sea 3.3
7 Northeast_African 2.45
8 Sub-Saharan 2.2
9 Oceanian 0.24

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Spanish_Extremadura 2.57
2 Portuguese 3.37
3 Spanish_Murcia 3.74
4 Spanish_Andalucia 4
5 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 4.53
6 Spanish_Galicia 4.68
7 Spanish_Valencia 4.94
8 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 5.02
9 Spanish_Cataluna 5.75
10 Spanish_Cantabria 7.02
11 Spanish_Aragon 7.9
12 North_Italian 8.19
13 Southwest_French 9.52
14 French 12.16
15 Tuscan 13.65
16 West_German 18.27
17 South_Dutch 18.27
18 French_Basque 19.58
19 West_Sicilian 19.94
20 Italian_Abruzzo 20.84



Mrs FilhoV

Eurogenes K13 Oracle results:

K13 Oracle ref data revised 21 Nov 2013

Kit A717121

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 38.92
2 West_Med 27.93
3 East_Med 14.55
4 Baltic 7.37
5 Red_Sea 3.39
6 Sub-Saharan 2.84
7 Northeast_African 2.08
8 Amerindian 1.11
9 Oceanian 0.98
10 Siberian 0.53
11 East_Asian 0.32

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Spanish_Murcia 4.31
2 Spanish_Extremadura 4.59
3 Spanish_Andalucia 4.94
4 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 5.24
5 Spanish_Valencia 5.33
6 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 5.39
7 Portuguese 5.41
8 Spanish_Galicia 6.23
9 Spanish_Aragon 6.57
10 Spanish_Cantabria 6.85
11 Spanish_Cataluna 7
12 Southwest_French 9.47
13 North_Italian 11.47
14 French 14.03
15 Tuscan 16.47
16 French_Basque 17.75
17 South_Dutch 20.08
18 West_German 20.31
19 West_Sicilian 22.42
20 Southeast_English 23.75

[Sikeliot]

It does make a difference because you've posted a guy that scores 7% SSA+Northeast African on Eurogenes K13 when the Portuguese average on K13 is not even 3%. That's more than twice than average.

But I am not sure why that alone would shift them toward Sicily when Sicilians don't score any more SSA than the Portuguese average.

Maybe their Red Sea is higher than the Portuguese average too.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

But I am not sure why that alone would shift them toward Sicily when Sicilians don't score any more SSA than the Portuguese average.

Maybe their Red Sea is higher than the Portuguese average too.

His East Med + Red Sea + West Asian is slightly above average.

[Ajeje Brazorf]

Lol, some Spaniards or Portuguese don't get Trapani on the oracle because of higher North African. This is bs.

[Sikeliot]

Lol, some Spaniards or Portuguese don't get Trapani on the oracle because of higher North African. This is bs.

It's either that, or higher East Med/Red Sea/West Med and lower Atlantic.

[Ajeje Brazorf]

It's either that, or higher East Med/Red Sea/West Med and lower Atlantic.

They may get Trapani because genetically it is more western. This is a guy from Malaga:

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Spanish_Aragon 3.75
2 Spanish_Valencia 4.02
3 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 4.18
4 Spanish_Andalucia 5.22
5 Southwest_French 6.32
6 Spanish_Murcia 6.44
7 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 6.45
8 Spanish_Cantabria 6.46
9 Spanish_Cataluna 7.45
10 Spanish_Extremadura 7.67
11 Portuguese 9.4
12 French_Basque 11.33
13 Spanish_Galicia 11.42
14 North_Italian 12.69
15 French 15.05
16 Tuscan 18
17 South_Dutch 18.53
18 Southwest_English 21.36
19 Austrian 21.82
20 Southeast_English 22.27

[Cristiano viejo]

Thanks Sikeliot, it is very important to us. We will can sleep better knowing something so obvious.

[FilhoV]

At distances of 20 it’s pointless and isn’t even close

[Ajeje Brazorf]

Thanks Sikeliot, it is very important to us. We will can sleep better knowing something so obvious.

However, a Portuguese or Spanish phenotypically is certainly more similar to other southern Europeans than to the British.

[Cristiano viejo]

However, a Portuguese or Spanish phenotypically is certainly more similar to other southern Europeans than to the British.

Thanks to you too for saying so obvious thing.

[Voskos]

I think Spaniards are also closer to South Slavs than to island Greeks, possibly also mainland Greeks.

[Ajeje Brazorf]

Thanks to you too for saying so obvious thing.

No need to thank me :)

[Ajeje Brazorf]

I think Spaniards are also closer to South Slavs than to island Greeks, possibly also mainland Greeks.

They are distant from every eastern population.

[Voskos]

They are distant from every eastern population.

i remember some serbs get spanish in their results, at the oracle. greek islanders get it sometimes but very distant.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

I think Spaniards are also closer to South Slavs than to island Greeks, possibly also mainland Greeks.

Iberians are closer to South Slavs than to Greeks, be it from the islands or the maindland judging by what I have seen on most kits.

[Sikeliot]

I think Spaniards are also closer to South Slavs than to island Greeks, possibly also mainland Greeks.

I think what we are seeing is Iberians are genetically closer to Western Europeans than to south Italians, Sicilians, or Greeks or Balkan Slavs.

Phenotypically we could argue otherwise, but genetically it is as I have said: there is no particular genetic affinity between Iberia and Sicily.

[Sikeliot]

Iberians are closer to South Slavs than to Greeks, be it from the islands or the maindland judging by what I have seen on most kits.

I've seen mainland Greeks getting Iberian in their top 20.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

I think what we are seeing is Iberians are genetically closer to Western Europeans than to south Italians, Sicilians, or Greeks or Balkan Slavs.

Phenotypically we could argue otherwise, but genetically it is as I have said: there is no particular genetic affinity between Iberia and Sicily.

There is not genetic affinity with Iberia and the rest of southern europe to be honest, apart from north italy and south france which are borderline "southern europe". I do agree that we overlap with Italians and Greeks better than we do in most cases with NW Europe but when it comes to genetics it is a different story.

[Sikeliot]

There is not genetic affinity with Iberia and the rest of southern europe to be honest, apart from north italy and south france which are borderline "southern europe". I do agree that we overlap with Italians and Greeks better than we do in most cases with NW Europe but when it comes to genetics it is a different story.

I agree with this. And the North African input in some parts of Iberia. Without North African input I think that Iberia would basically be no different than SW France genetically.

[Ajeje Brazorf]

I think what we are seeing is Iberians are genetically closer to Western Europeans than to south Italians, Sicilians, or Greeks or Balkan Slavs.

Because they are more western, Sardinians as well can be closer to North Africans (although at gigantic distances) than to Sicilians. Obviously genotype does not correspond to the phenotype.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 sardinian_hgdp @ 3.531285
2 spaniard_1000genomes @ 27.861961
3 italian_hgdp @ 28.216690
4 spaniard_behar @ 28.510675
5 tuscan_hapmap @ 29.430986
6 tuscan_hgdp @ 30.022923
7 tuscan_1000genomes @ 30.415260
8 basque_hgdp @ 32.390308
9 spain-basc_henn2012 @ 32.453606
10 puerto-rican_1000genomes @ 34.123264
11 morocco-jew_behar @ 35.455112
12 tunisia_henn2012 @ 35.479038
13 morocco-n_henn2012 @ 35.763359
14 ashkenazy-jew_behar @ 37.748219
15 sephardic-jew_behar @ 37.752457
16 ashkenazi_harappa @ 37.880795
17 algeria_henn2012 @ 40.497581
18 puerto-rican_bryc @ 41.205753
19 french_hgdp @ 41.418034
20 colombian_1000genomes @ 41.790531

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Sardinian @ 47.758751
2 Moroccan @ 71.791153
3 Mozabite_Berber @ 72.484818
4 North_Italian @ 73.739449
5 Spanish_Cantabria @ 74.034096
6 Spanish_Andalucia @ 74.044792
7 Spanish_Galicia @ 74.170059
8 Algerian @ 74.393684
9 Portuguese @ 74.534515
10 Spanish_Extremadura @ 75.010132
11 Southwest_French @ 75.134125
12 Tuscan @ 75.257942
13 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 75.462723
14 Spanish_Aragon @ 75.580093
15 Spanish_Valencia @ 75.960670
16 Spanish_Murcia @ 76.162842
17 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 76.253838
18 Tunisian @ 76.453331
19 Spanish_Cataluna @ 76.521866
20 Greek_Thessaly @ 76.918030

[Voskos]

There is not genetic affinity with Iberia and the rest of southern europe to be honest, apart from north italy and south france which are borderline "southern europe". I do agree that we overlap with Italians and Greeks better than we do in most cases with NW Europe but when it comes to genetics it is a different story.

spaniards are around 60% neolithic on ancient origins, same as Greeks. But the rest is all WHG, whereas in Greeks its often whg+caucasus.

[Ajeje Brazorf]

I've seen mainland Greeks getting Iberian in their top 20.

Never saw Greeks getting Iberians in their oracles, could you show me some?

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

My K36 similarity tool map:

https://s33.postimg.cc/mlphnr4n3/Opera_Instant_neo_2018-05-28_153607_gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr.png


And Mrs. Viriato who is more "proper" Iberian and not so eastern shifted as I am:

https://s31.postimg.cc/63qtdbjgr/Opera_Instant_neo_2018-05-18_175300_gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr.png

[Voskos]

Never saw Greeks getting Iberians in their oracles, could you show me some?

i get it but in last position, very distant:

20 Spanish 22.7

[FilhoV]

My K36 tool

https://i.imgur.com/7owe5nr.jpg

[Lavrentis]

I think what we are seeing is Iberians are genetically closer to Western Europeans than to south Italians, Sicilians, or Greeks or Balkan Slavs.

Phenotypically we could argue otherwise, but genetically it is as I have said: there is no particular genetic affinity between Iberia and Sicily.

I agree with you and Viriato, there is no genetic affinity between Iberians and southern Italians/Greeks. I think that’s because the low Caucasus on Iberians and the high Caucasus on south Italians and Greeks. The high Caucasus in Greeks is from the Myceaneans it seems.

The most Atlantic-West Med shifted of Greeks do get Iberians in their top 20, as is the case with most Atlantic-West Med shifted of southern Italians as well. I have rarely seen an Iberian get Greeks in his top 20, and the Greeks they get is the Greek_Thessaly sample.

[Sikeliot]

Never saw Greeks getting Iberians in their oracles, could you show me some?

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?245627-Greek-Eurogenes-K13-results-from-Macedonia-Thessaly-and-Peloponnese

2 out of the 4 Macedonians score an Iberian population, all except for 2 of the Thessalians, 4 of the Central Greeks, and 3 of the Peloponnesians.

So this is roughly half of them.

[Sikeliot]

I agree with you and Viriato, there is no genetic affinity between Iberians and southern Italians/Greeks. I think that’s because the low Caucasus on Iberians and the high Caucasus on south Italians and Greeks. The high Caucasus on south Italians and Greeks is from the Myceaneans it seems.

The most Atlantic-West Med shifted of Greeks do get Iberians in their top 20, as is the case with most Atlantic-West Med shifted of southern Italians as well. I have rarely seen an Iberian get Greeks in his top 20, and the Greeks they get is the Greek_Thessaly sample.


I disagree with the bolded, because both Minoans and Bronze Age Sicilians already had significant Caucasus input.

It is also worth noting that mainland Greeks also differ from southern Italians because of the NE Euro/Steppe, but not as much as Iberians differ from both.

[FilhoV]

https://imgur.com/a/578lx3n

Saint Bernadette from southwest France looks no different than anyone in Iberia and passes no question

https://imgur.com/a/578lx3n

[Lavrentis]

I disagree with the bolded, because both Minoans and Bronze Age Sicilians already had significant Caucasus input.

It is also worth noting that mainland Greeks also differ from southern Italians because of the NE Euro/Steppe, but not as much as Iberians differ from both.

Yes you’re right, my mistake

[Lavrentis]

Never saw Greeks getting Iberians in their oracles, could you show me some?

I have seen some, here are 2:

1)

# Population (source) Distance
1 Tuscan 7.33
2 Italian_Abruzzo 8.19
3 Greek 9.31
4 West_Sicilian 9.59
5 Central_Greek 10.74
6 East_Sicilian 10.78
7 Greek_Thessaly 10.98
8 North_Italian 11.05
9 South_Italian 12.04
10 Bulgarian 12.28
11 Ashkenazi 13.33
12 Romanian 14
13 Spanish_Andalucia 16.51
14 Italian_Jewish 16.86
15 Sephardic_Jewish 17
16 Spanish_Extremadura 17.17
17 Serbian 17.19
18 Spanish_Murcia 17.34
19 Portuguese 17.75
20 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 17.82

2)

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek_Thessaly 4.73
2 Central_Greek 8.65
3 Italian_Abruzzo 8.92
4 Greek 9.21
5 Ashkenazi 9.37
6 East_Sicilian 9.48
7 Tuscan 9.57
8 West_Sicilian 10.76
9 South_Italian 11.59
10 Bulgarian 12.12
11 Romanian 12.97
12 North_Italian 13.89
13 Italian_Jewish 14.74
14 Serbian 15.23
15 Algerian_Jewish 16.7
16 Sephardic_Jewish 16.73
17 Libyan_Jewish 19.72
18 Spanish_Galicia 20.1
19 Portuguese 20.11
20 Tunisian_Jewish 20.51

[Sikeliot]

I have seen some, here are 2:

Roughly half of mainlanders and a small percent of islanders score it in my experience.

For what it is worth I have not seen many Sicilians getting Iberian either but sometimes they do. Very rarely.

[Ajeje Brazorf]

1)

# Population (source) Distance
1 Tuscan 7.33
2 Italian_Abruzzo 8.19
3 Greek 9.31
4 West_Sicilian 9.59
5 Central_Greek 10.74
6 East_Sicilian 10.78
7 Greek_Thessaly 10.98
8 North_Italian 11.05
9 South_Italian 12.04
10 Bulgarian 12.28
11 Ashkenazi 13.33
12 Romanian 14
13 Spanish_Andalucia 16.51
14 Italian_Jewish 16.86
15 Sephardic_Jewish 17
16 Spanish_Extremadura 17.17
17 Serbian 17.19
18 Spanish_Murcia 17.34
19 Portuguese 17.75
20 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 17.82

Where in Greece is he from? Looks Albanian.

[QUICAS]

Iberians are north euros mixed with meds, thats the reason.

[Lavrentis]

Where in Greece is he from? Looks Albanian.

He’s from Macedonia, I took him from one of Sikeliot’s posts

[nightrider+]

Iberians are north euros mixed with meds, thats the reason.

Lol, no. It's just that Sicilians are Southeastern shifted and Iberians Southwestern shifted.

https://i.imgur.com/aw7MDn0.png

You can see for example that Croats are closer to French than Iberians are. Doesn't mean much.

[Tooting Carmen]

Lol, no. It's just that Sicilians are Southeastern shifted and Iberians Southwestern shifted.

https://i.imgur.com/aw7MDn0.png

You can see for example that Croats are closer to French than Iberians are. Doesn't mean much.

A much more pertinent question is whether the French are genetically closer to their Northern or Southern neighbours.

[Sikeliot]

A much more pertinent question is whether the French are genetically closer to their Northern or Southern neighbours.

Between English and Spanish it looks like, but separated more significantly from north Italians oddly enough.

[nightrider+]

A much more pertinent question is whether the French are genetically closer to their Northern or Southern neighbours.

You can see they are all over the place in this plot. From Basque-like to NW European-like.

[Tooting Carmen]

You can see they are all over the place in this plot. From Basque-like to NW European-like.

Yes, in France's case it most likely depends on the region. Whatever some genetic plots suggest, France is at least the equal of Italy when it comes to having a big North-South divide.

[Sikeliot]

Yes, in France's case it most likely depends on the region. Whatever some genetic plots suggest, France is at least the equal of Italy when it comes to having a big North-South divide.


Not even. If you look at the range of where French plot it is smaller than on there where the northernmost north Italian and the most outlying Sicilian plot.

[nightrider+]

Not even. If you look at the range of where French plot it is smaller than on there where the northernmost north Italian and the most outlying Sicilian plot.

The difference is that they go in more than one direction unlike Italy. There is a French sample close to the most West shifted Irish and another right next to Croats. Make sense for the size and geography of the country.

[Sikeliot]

The difference is that they go in more than one direction unlike Italy. There is a French sample close to the most West shifted Irish and another right next to Croats. Make sense for the size and geography of the country.

Italy is basically on a cline that goes from Iberia toward Cypriots. There are, other than Sardinians, no Italians who are outside of this cline.

[Aren]

These calculators on Gedmatch based on modern populations are fun and informative when looking at the closest people to you. Anything below a distance of 10 is pretty insignificant since what these calcs like Eurogenes K15 or 13 actually calculate is recent genetic drift. Spaniards were less so affected than Italians or Balkanites by post-Bronze Age movements from Anatolia so that's why they are drifted quite far away from them. But when you look at the actual ancient components, like ENF/WHG/Steppe/CHG you'll notice that Spaniards, all Italians and Greeks are quite close. Same with NW and NE Euros.

[nightrider+]

Spaniards were less so affected than Italians or Balkanites by post-Bronze Age movements from Anatolia so that's why they are drifted quite far away from them.

Not really. Recent North African of Iberians is about as much as recent Near Eastern of Greeks (if not more). Most likely even by late Mesolithic the two populations were far apart, and certainly during Bronzen Age as Iberians were and still are much more WHG shifted.

[Damião de Góis]

If looking at big distances is your thing, then EuTest is a good run for it because it doesn't have the spanish regions (which fill a lot of oracle places):

# Population (source) Distance
1 PT 3.63
2 ES 4.84
3 North_Italian 7.41
4 FR 8.04
5 Tuscan 12.59
6 AT 15.61
7 Cornish 16.71
8 West_&_Central_German 17.07
9 NL 17.43
10 RO 17.55
11 Serbian 17.67
12 English 17.99
13 HU 18.78
14 French_Basque 18.93
15 Orcadian 19.53
16 IE 19.58
17 Scottish 20.62
18 DK 21.06
19 South_Italian_&_Sicilian 22.6
20 NO 22.9

[Sikeliot]

If looking at big distances is your thing, then EuTest is a good run for it because it doesn't have the spanish regions (which fill a lot of oracle places):

# Population (source) Distance
1 PT 3.63
2 ES 4.84
3 North_Italian 7.41
4 FR 8.04
5 Tuscan 12.59
6 AT 15.61
7 Cornish 16.71
8 West_&_Central_German 17.07
9 NL 17.43
10 RO 17.55
11 Serbian 17.67
12 English 17.99
13 HU 18.78
14 French_Basque 18.93
15 Orcadian 19.53
16 IE 19.58
17 Scottish 20.62
18 DK 21.06
19 South_Italian_&_Sicilian 22.6
20 NO 22.9


Closer to Denmark than to Sicily and equidistant Norway to Sicily. That actually shocks me.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Nice tip Endovélico.


Viriato:

Using 1 population approximation:
1 PT @ 5.561973
2 ES @ 7.144654
3 North_Italian @ 10.121132
4 FR @ 10.871655
5 Tuscan @ 15.054560
6 AT @ 18.727001
7 Serbian @ 20.411510
8 West_&_Central_German @ 20.563437
9 Cornish @ 20.598780
10 RO @ 20.678295
11 NL @ 20.926533
12 English @ 21.698030
13 HU @ 21.992580
14 French_Basque @ 23.307968
15 Orcadian @ 23.779350
16 IE @ 23.864782
17 DK @ 24.687799
18 Scottish @ 25.281315
19 South_Italian_&_Sicilian @ 26.483421
20 AJ @ 26.626932


Mrs. Viriato:

Using 1 population approximation:
1 PT @ 3.281524
2 ES @ 5.191555
3 FR @ 9.350954
4 North_Italian @ 11.286491
5 Tuscan @ 15.363243
6 Cornish @ 18.991100
7 AT @ 19.203989
8 West_&_Central_German @ 19.445156
9 NL @ 19.792553
10 English @ 19.913845
11 French_Basque @ 21.541529
12 Serbian @ 22.018591
13 Orcadian @ 22.428823
14 IE @ 22.711864
15 RO @ 22.782921
16 DK @ 23.432070
17 Scottish @ 23.598549
18 HU @ 23.759180
19 NO @ 26.060041
20 South_&_Central_Swedish @ 26.657125

[Sikeliot]

So why don't Iberians look more like Norwegians/Danes than like south Italians and Greeks? Might be convergent evolution or related to climate?

[Token]

FYI I will add, Spain is closer to England and the Germanic countries than to Ireland, which disproves this "Ireland and Spain" connection.

You should read a little about phylogenetics, Sikeliot. 2D PCAs and Fst matrices can be very misleading if not used and interpreted correctly.

[FilhoV]

Filhov

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 ES 4.49
2 PT 5.4
3 North_Italian 10.63
4 FR 11.84
5 Tuscan 14.12
6 French_Basque 16.81
7 Cornish 19.88
8 AT 20.44
9 West_&_Central_German 21.2
10 NL 21.37
11 English 21.53
12 RO 21.77
13 Serbian 22.02
14 IE 22.65
15 Orcadian 22.76
16 South_Italian_&_Sicilian 23.08
17 Scottish 23.43
18 HU 23.75
19 AJ 23.94
20 DK 24.49

[Thot Whisperer]

So why don't Iberians look more like Norwegians/Danes than like south Italians and Greeks? Might be convergent evolution or related to climate?

When the ancient Greeks interacted with the Iberians, they described them as dark skinned people(med dark). After the reconquista spain became more homogeneous. Obviously northern people repopulated most of Spain. What I’d like to see is a gedmatch kit of someone who lived in southern Spain 1,000 years ago.

[Tietar]

So why don't Iberians look more like Norwegians/Danes than like south Italians and Greeks? Might be convergent evolution or related to climate?

for the same reason that would also be more like Japanese than Danish if the Japanese did not have slanted eyes.

because of the hair and skin color

[FilhoV]

When the ancient Greeks interacted with the Iberians, they described them as dark skinned people(med dark). After the reconquista spain became more homogeneous. Obviously northern people repopulated most of Spain. What I’d like to see is a gedmatch kit of someone who lived in southern Spain 1,000 years ago.

GED match results of late Bronze Age Portuguese man from southern Portugal

Kit Number: T277697 Elapsed Time: 4.91 seconds

Population
North_Atlantic 46.80
Baltic 4.86
West_Med 45.59
West_Asian -
East_Med 2.75
Red_Sea -
South_Asian -
East_Asian -
Siberian -
Amerindian -
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

[Thot Whisperer]

GED match results of late Bronze Age Portuguese man from southern Portugal

Kit Number: T277697 Elapsed Time: 4.91 seconds

Population
North_Atlantic 46.80
Baltic 4.86
West_Med 45.59
West_Asian -
East_Med 2.75
Red_Sea -
South_Asian -
East_Asian -
Siberian -
Amerindian -
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -
I’m new to this gedmatch stuff, but this individual’s results didn’t add up to 100.

[Morena]

So why don't Iberians look more like Norwegians/Danes than like south Italians and Greeks? Might be convergent evolution or related to climate?

I think people minimize the importance of sexual selection. the reason Iberians look Iberian is because we are attracted to people who look like us. lol it becomes a feedback loop.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

I’m new to this gedmatch stuff, but this individual’s results didn’t add up to 100.

It does...

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

When the ancient Greeks interacted with the Iberians, they described them as dark skinned people(med dark). .

Source?

[MercifulServant]

Spaniards are very Northern compared to Sicilians. Its really not that suprising.

[Tietar]

It depends.

Someone who looks like this -- if this is a common Spanish look, could pass in nearly all of Europe (including UK and Sicily) but I'd say this look is more common to Britain than Sicily.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?246074-classify-spanish-actress-Clara-Alvarado

But people who look like Penelope Cruz or Raul Albiol would definitely not be closer to NW Europe.

Why is Penolope Cruz always used as a reference in this forum? Not only is it stupid to obsess over a concrete example, but it is not even a good example since her father is of gypsy origin

http://www.magazinespain.com/wp-content/uploads/eduardo-cruz-con-sus-hijas.jpg

[Tooting Carmen]

Why is Penolope Cruz always used as a reference in this forum? Not only is it stupid to obsess over a concrete example, but it is not even a good example since her father is of gypsy origin

http://www.magazinespain.com/wp-content/uploads/eduardo-cruz-con-sus-hijas.jpg

Then how about Paz Vega, Clara Lago, Rossy de Palma, Megan Montaner, Itziar Miranda or Rocio Munoz Morales then?

[Acubens]

Italian cline isn't from Iberia to Cyprus. The North Italian sample is based on the Bergamo region, that's why it is plotting with Iberians. Northeastern Italians and , possibly, people from Aosta Valley would be more northern than any Spaniards or Portuguese.

All results I've seen from Veneto, Aosta Valley, Trento, Tyrol (obviously) and Friuli were more northern than Spanish. I'm not sure if we can include Tyroleans as Italians, but if yes they aren't Southern Europeans, that's for sure. They retain more Northern European blood even than Northern French.

Italian genetics only have samples from areas that aren't representative of their regions. If South Italian was based on Abruzzo or Puglia it wouldn't be as Southern shifted.

The same is valid for the Northern Italian sample, was it based on Friuli, Aosta or Veneto, the results would be different. People with very Mediterranean look are always stereotyped as Spanish or South Italian looking in North Italy.

[FilhoV]

Because of the higher North African and East Med in the Portuguese, some Portuguese are closer to Sicily than to NW Europe, so this pattern seems to not apply as much to them.

Examples:

#1:

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 34.47
2 West_Med 28.75
3 East_Med 12
4 Baltic 10.8
5 Red_Sea 4.75
6 Sub-Saharan 3.16
7 South_Asian 2.02
8 Northeast_African 1.66
9 West_Asian 1.22
10 East_Asian 1.04
11 Oceanian 0.13

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Spanish_Galicia 5.06
2 Spanish_Extremadura 5.37
3 Portuguese 6.07
4 Spanish_Andalucia 6.95
5 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 6.99
6 Spanish_Murcia 7.15
7 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 7.29
8 Spanish_Valencia 7.59
9 Spanish_Cantabria 7.77
10 Spanish_Cataluna 8.24
11 Southwest_French 9.56
12 Spanish_Aragon 9.72
13 North_Italian 10.08
14 French 13.68
15 Tuscan 15.43
16 South_Dutch 19.4
17 West_German 19.58
18 French_Basque 19.99
19 West_Sicilian 21.25
20 Romanian 21.47

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 77.3% Southwest_French + 22.7% Mozabite_Berber @ 2.39
2 77.4% Southwest_French + 22.6% Algerian @ 2.64
3 78.1% Southwest_French + 21.9% Tunisian @ 2.69
4 77.7% Southwest_French + 22.3% Moroccan @ 2.81
5 81.5% Spanish_Cantabria + 18.5% Mozabite_Berber @ 3
6 81.8% Spanish_Cantabria + 18.2% Moroccan @ 3.16
7 82.2% Spanish_Cantabria + 17.8% Tunisian @ 3.22
8 81.6% Spanish_Cantabria + 18.4% Algerian @ 3.25
9 89.4% Spanish_Galicia + 10.6% Mozabite_Berber @ 3.44
10 87.8% Spanish_Galicia + 12.2% Sardinian @ 3.49
11 89.8% Spanish_Galicia + 10.2% Moroccan @ 3.53
12 90.1% Spanish_Galicia + 9.9% Algerian @ 3.7
13 90.4% Spanish_Galicia + 9.6% Tunisian @ 3.71
14 83.7% Southwest_French + 16.3% Egyptian @ 4.14
15 97% Spanish_Galicia + 3% Bantu_N.E. @ 4.19
16 97.1% Spanish_Galicia + 2.9% Luhya @ 4.19
17 97.2% Spanish_Galicia + 2.8% Biaka_Pygmy @ 4.19
18 97.3% Spanish_Galicia + 2.7% Bantu_S.E. @ 4.2
19 97.4% Spanish_Galicia + 2.6% Bantu_S.W. @ 4.2
20 97.4% Spanish_Galicia + 2.6% Mandenka @ 4.21



#2:

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 34.11
2 West_Med 26.26
3 East_Med 14.35
4 Baltic 9.33
5 Red_Sea 5.06
6 Sub-Saharan 4.03
7 Northeast_African 3.07
8 West_Asian 2.97
9 East_Asian 0.53
10 Siberian 0.22
11 Oceanian 0.06

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Spanish_Extremadura 5.46
2 Portuguese 6.03
3 Spanish_Galicia 6.52
4 Spanish_Murcia 7.05
5 Spanish_Andalucia 7.43
6 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 7.48
7 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 8.35
8 Spanish_Valencia 8.5
9 North_Italian 8.82
10 Spanish_Cataluna 8.97
11 Spanish_Cantabria 9.82
12 Spanish_Aragon 11.12
13 Southwest_French 12.14
14 Tuscan 13.22
15 French 13.94
16 West_Sicilian 18.78
17 West_German 19.59
18 South_Dutch 19.7
19 Italian_Abruzzo 20
20 Greek_Thessaly 20.39

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 77% Spanish_Cataluna + 23% Mozabite_Berber @ 2.1
2 75.9% Spanish_Cantabria + 24.1% Tunisian @ 2.31
3 77.4% Spanish_Cataluna + 22.6% Moroccan @ 2.32
4 75.2% Spanish_Cantabria + 24.8% Algerian @ 2.39
5 80.5% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + 19.5% Mozabite_Berber @ 2.4
6 85.6% Spanish_Extremadura + 14.4% Mozabite_Berber @ 2.41
7 75.4% Spanish_Cantabria + 24.6% Mozabite_Berber @ 2.46
8 82.9% Spanish_Galicia + 17.1% Mozabite_Berber @ 2.53
9 84.2% Portuguese + 15.8% Mozabite_Berber @ 2.56
10 85.9% Spanish_Extremadura + 14.1% Algerian @ 2.68
11 77.2% Spanish_Cataluna + 22.8% Algerian @ 2.69
12 94.7% Spanish_Extremadura + 5.3% San @ 2.75
13 93.9% Spanish_Extremadura + 6.1% Sandawe @ 2.75
14 86.5% Spanish_Extremadura + 13.5% Tunisian @ 2.75
15 83.6% Spanish_Galicia + 16.4% Tunisian @ 2.77
16 83% Spanish_Galicia + 17% Algerian @ 2.78
17 86.3% Spanish_Extremadura + 13.7% Moroccan @ 2.78
18 81.2% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + 18.8% Tunisian @ 2.78
19 95% Spanish_Extremadura + 5% Mbuti_Pygmy @ 2.82
20 80.7% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + 19.3% Algerian @ 2.82



It depends on the individual I myself am scoring Sicily on the K 13 before I score English or anything like that

[Aren]

Not really. Recent North African of Iberians is about as much as recent Near Eastern of Greeks (if not more). Most likely even by late Mesolithic the two populations were far apart, and certainly during Bronzen Age as Iberians were and still are much more WHG shifted.

The North African input in Iberia, if it indeed is from the Moors, reaches at a maximum only 11% in the Western part. It's true Greeks probably did have already during the late Neolithic period less WHG than Western Europe, but not by much. This WHG input has since then been diluted by CHG-rich populations from Anatolia, like Kura-Axes during the Bronze Age. It wasn't Levantine or Near Eastern input, more like Georgian. Other than that you guys are quite close. So no, you weren't far apart and neither are you far apart now. The drift is like from the Bronze Age and onward, but it's just that: genetic drift getting picked up by calculators on Gedmatch based on modern people.
nMonte3 using the same populations for both

"distance%=2.5075"

Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha

Barcin_N,53.6
Yamnaya_Samara,29.4
WHG,12
Mozabite,5

"distance%=1.8804"

Greek

Barcin_N,50.6
Yamnaya_Samara,26.8
Armenia_EBA,13.2
Iron_Gates_HG,4.8
Levant_BA,4.6

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

^

Results from Veneto

Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15

# Population Percent
1 Atlantic 23.45
2 North_Sea 19.11
3 West_Med 18.67
4 East_Med 15.50
5 West_Asian 8.99
6 Baltic 7.07
7 Eastern_Euro 4.12
8 Red_Sea 2.48

Using 1 population approximation:
1 North_Italian @ 4.149015
2 Tuscan @ 8.469084
3 Portuguese @ 10.078117
4 Spanish_Extremadura @ 10.260922
5 Spanish_Murcia @ 10.670196
6 Spanish_Cataluna @ 10.879746
7 Spanish_Galicia @ 11.070956
8 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 11.526945
9 Spanish_Andalucia @ 12.036972
10 Spanish_Valencia @ 12.676501
11 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 13.662557
12 French @ 14.223782
13 Romanian @ 15.138850
14 Spanish_Cantabria @ 15.189543
15 Serbian @ 15.418042
16 Italian_Abruzzo @ 15.459214
17 Bulgarian @ 15.605332
18 Greek_Thessaly @ 15.713394
19 Spanish_Aragon @ 15.945039
20 West_Sicilian @ 16.156317

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Italian_Abruzzo +50% Spanish_Cataluna @ 3.426115

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% North_Italian +25% South_Italian +25% Southwest_English @ 1.532937

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Central_Greek + Southwest_English + Spanish_Andalucia + Tuscan @ 1.460812
2 North_Italian + North_Italian + South_Italian + Southwest_English @ 1.532937
3 French + Italian_Abruzzo + Spanish_Cataluna + Tuscan @ 1.591041
4 North_Italian + South_Italian + Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + West_German @ 1.601201
5 French + Italian_Abruzzo + North_Italian + North_Italian @ 1.650471
6 North_Italian + South_Italian + Spanish_Andalucia + West_German @ 1.650677
7 South_Italian + Southwest_English + Spanish_Andalucia + Tuscan @ 1.654188
8 South_Italian + Southwest_English + Spanish_Valencia + Tuscan @ 1.674215
9 North_Italian + South_Italian + Spanish_Valencia + West_German @ 1.702055
10 French_Basque + Greek_Thessaly + South_Italian + West_German @ 1.708453
11 Italian_Abruzzo + North_Italian + North_Italian + South_Dutch @ 1.766704
12 North_Italian + North_Italian + South_Italian + Southeast_English @ 1.769405
13 Central_Greek + Southwest_English + Spanish_Valencia + Tuscan @ 1.769714
14 Italian_Abruzzo + South_Italian + Southwest_English + Southwest_French @ 1.772338
15 South_Italian + Southwest_English + Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + Tuscan @ 1.778297
16 Central_Greek + French + North_Italian + Spanish_Cataluna @ 1.787150
17 South_Dutch + South_Italian + Spanish_Cantabria + Tuscan @ 1.793786
18 Central_Greek + North_Italian + Spanish_Andalucia + West_German @ 1.809062
19 French + North_Italian + South_Italian + Spanish_Cataluna @ 1.813427
20 Italian_Abruzzo + South_Italian + Southwest_English + Spanish_Cantabria @ 1.813689

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

https://s15.postimg.cc/52igqadaz/Sem_T_tulo.jpg

And this where that guy from Veneto plots on the k15 pca map. Quite on pair with the north italian sample average that you say is all from the northwest, at least on this specific kit which was the first that came up when I did a quick search. Definitely not more northen than iberians.

[Acubens]

^

Results from Veneto


It would be interesting to know what's the average of the region instead of just few results. I've seen Venetians going from Lombard to South German in GEDmatch. That's why Lombardy alone, especially one region, cannot be used as average for "North Italian".

Btw, do you have results from Tyrol, Triveneto or Friuli?

[Acubens]

Trento would also be interesting to see.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

I don't have such kits, perhaps Sikeliot, Tooting Carmen or Token do. They are more into Italian genetics.

[FilhoV]

https://s15.postimg.cc/52igqadaz/Sem_T_tulo.jpg

And this where that guy from Veneto plots on the k15 pca map. Quite on pair with the north italian sample average that you say is all from the northwest, at least on this specific kit which was the first that came up when I did a quick search. Definitely not more northen than iberians.

In this PCA I plot halfway between Portugal and Sardinia

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

In this PCA I plot halfway between Portugal and Sardinia

I plot in-between Portugal and North Italy. I am slightly more eastern-shifted than the average Portuguese. My girlfriend plots next to the Spanish dot.

[Alessio]

The volkswanderung has been very effective as well as repopulating the south from the north after the Muslim era, oh and don't forget the Celts fusing with the Iberians to eventually form the Celtiberians.

[Alessio]

Trento would also be interesting to see.

At 23andme they score below 15% Italian.

[Ajeje Brazorf]

And this where that guy from Veneto plots on the k15 pca map. Quite on pair with the north italian sample average that you say is all from the northwest, at least on this specific kit which was the first that came up when I did a quick search. Definitely not more northen than iberians.

Depends on the province, Verona would be similar to Lombardy, but Venetians are generally more northeast shifted.

[Ajeje Brazorf]

Trento would also be interesting to see.

I posted this time ago:

Trento province (Trentino)

# Population Percent
1 Atlantic 24.85
2 North_Sea 21.05
3 West_Med 17.90
4 East_Med 13.11
5 Baltic 11.30
6 Eastern_Euro 6.42
7 West_Asian 3.99
8 Red_Sea 1.24

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Spanish_Cataluna @ 8.355044
2 North_Italian @ 8.718214
3 Portuguese @ 8.765523
4 Spanish_Galicia @ 9.122841
5 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 9.620298
6 Spanish_Murcia @ 10.002602
7 Spanish_Extremadura @ 10.022285
8 French @ 10.617395
9 Spanish_Valencia @ 11.508462
10 Spanish_Andalucia @ 12.348421
11 Spanish_Cantabria @ 13.123234
12 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 13.126403
13 Serbian @ 13.340795
14 Southwest_French @ 13.570200
15 South_Dutch @ 14.421235
16 Tuscan @ 14.680713
17 Spanish_Aragon @ 14.688015
18 Austrian @ 14.849841
19 Romanian @ 15.143217
20 Bulgarian @ 16.494179

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Serbian +50% Spanish_Murcia @ 4.292276

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% North_Italian +25% Southwest_Finnish +25% Spanish_Valencia @ 3.287056

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Hungarian + Spanish_Cataluna + Spanish_Cataluna + Tuscan @ 2.918148
2 Greek + Spanish_Valencia + Spanish_Valencia + Swedish @ 3.057847
3 Hungarian + North_Italian + Spanish_Cataluna + Spanish_Cataluna @ 3.063429
4 Greek + North_Italian + Southwest_French + Swedish @ 3.071003
5 Greek + North_Italian + Norwegian + Southwest_French @ 3.089751
6 Hungarian + North_Italian + Spanish_Cataluna + Spanish_Murcia @ 3.098645
7 Hungarian + North_Italian + North_Italian + Spanish_Cataluna @ 3.129116
8 Greek + North_Italian + Spanish_Aragon + Swedish @ 3.145931
9 Greek + Spanish_Andalucia + Spanish_Valencia + Swedish @ 3.157093
10 Hungarian + Spanish_Cataluna + Spanish_Valencia + Tuscan @ 3.163212
11 East_German + Greek_Thessaly + Spanish_Cataluna + Spanish_Valencia @ 3.171279
12 Greek + North_Italian + Southwest_French + West_Norwegian @ 3.198644
13 Hungarian + North_Italian + Spanish_Cataluna + Spanish_Valencia @ 3.207631
14 Greek + Spanish_Murcia + Spanish_Valencia + Swedish @ 3.211865
15 Greek + Southwest_French + Spanish_Cataluna + West_German @ 3.217663
16 Greek + Spanish_Andalucia + Spanish_Cataluna + Swedish @ 3.221610
17 Greek + Spanish_Cataluna + Spanish_Valencia + Swedish @ 3.257623
18 Greek + North_Italian + Norwegian + Spanish_Aragon @ 3.273338
19 Hungarian + Spanish_Cataluna + Spanish_Murcia + Tuscan @ 3.274329
20 Greek + North_Dutch + North_Italian + Southwest_French @ 3.285604

[Petalpusher]

So why don't Iberians look more like Norwegians/Danes than like south Italians and Greeks? Might be convergent evolution or related to climate?

Imo they do, probably not on the criterias this forums has, but i wouldn't mistake the groups of Sicilians you are posting with Iberians, they rarely have that Levantine vibe that is omnipresent in many S.Italians, even the exotic Iberians look different. That's millions more genes involved to get that kind of structural skull differences than just eye/hair color or whatever superficial thing is considered, that account for barely a dozen of genes at best.

[Ajeje Brazorf]

Imo they do, probably not on the criterias this forums has, but i wouldn't mistake the groups of Sicilians you are posting with Iberians, they rarely have that Levantine vibe that is omnipresent in many S.Italians, even the exotic Iberians look different. That's millions more genes involved to get that kind of structural skull differences than just eye/hair color or whatever superficial thing is considered, that account for barely a dozen of genes at best.

Yeah, you're very experienced about what southern Italians look like, I guess then what you've been thinking all these years with Sikeliot's trollish threads... I've been in Spain and they look more like the other south Europeans than Norwegians lol. Petalpusher, no offense but you'd better change pusher.

[Petalpusher]

Yeah, you're very experienced about what southern Italians look like, I guess then what you've been thinking all these years with Sikeliot's trollish threads... I've been in Spain and they look more like the other south Europeans than Norwegians lol. Petalpusher, no offense but you'd better change pusher.

Living in Provence for a while i ve been seeing probably millions people of Italians and Iberians descent for years, it's not only based on sikelliot threads, though these people do exist in great numbers. I maintain that they look very different to me. Of course N.Italy is a whole different story, but not to the extent people believe here either.

You can put all the blonde hair and blue eyes you want on these women, they will still look highly semitic no matter what, and yes even the second one (1st thread i stumbled upon). Much more rare in Iberians. Cruz for example doesn't look semitic and she s regarded as very exotic here.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?246128-Classify-2-Sicilian-girls-with-opposite-appearances

Admixture doesn't discriminate anyway and it should not if the genes proportions are controlling your nail, skin or brain.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Living in Provence for a while i ve been seeing probably millions people of Italians and Iberians descent for years, it's not only based on sikelliot threads, though these people do exist in great numbers. I maintain that they look very different to me. Of course N.Italy is a whole different story, but not to the extent people believe here either.

You can put all the blonde hair and blue eyes you want on these women, they will still look highly semitic no matter what, and yes even the second one (1st thread i stumbled upon). Much more rare in Iberians. Cruz for example doesn't look semitic and she s regarded as very exotic here.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?246128-Classify-2-Sicilian-girls-with-opposite-appearances

Admixture doesn't discriminate anyway and it should not if the genes proportions are controlling your nail, skin or brain.

Out of curiosity, there is mostly a Spanish diaspora or a Portuguese diaspora in Provence?

[Petalpusher]

Out of curiosity, there is mostly a Spanish diaspora or a Portuguese diaspora in Provence?

Both, but proportionally more Portuguese than elsewhere i would say, than the soutwhest for example. You can easily find some Portuguese bar or restaurants in the region.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Both, but proportionally more Portuguese than elsewhere i would say, than the soutwhest for example. You can easily find some Portuguese bar or restaurants in the region.

On my K36 tool map I seem to oddly get more proximity to Provence than even certain Iberian regions.

https://s33.postimg.cc/mlphnr4n3/Opera_Instant_neo_2018-05-28_153607_gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr.png


But from what I remember, you plot inbetween Dutch average samples and German samples. Are you more Germanic shifted than the average Provençal? Also, do you know the local dialect?

[Petalpusher]

On my K36 tool map I seem to oddly get more proximity to Provence than even certain Iberian regions.

https://s33.postimg.cc/mlphnr4n3/Opera_Instant_neo_2018-05-28_153607_gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr.png


But from what I remember, you plot inbetween Dutch average samples and German samples. Are you more Germanic shifted than the average Provençal? Also, do you know the local dialect?

The Provence sample is from the Nice area, they are pretty much ethnically N.Italians, since you are yourself close N.Italy it reflects that. People i have from my family in Provence match better anything else than their own regions, because it's not based on ethnic Provence, it would have been too similar to the eastern france samples, it's the reason i guess. I don't know Provençal, i grew up around Lyon. Nobody speaks it anyway, there is a slight accent in some places, but hardly noticable except from Marseille, which is a thing on his own in France.

[Percivalle]

On my K36 tool map I seem to oddly get more proximity to Provence than even certain Iberian regions.

85 is Aosta Valley, based on the kits uploaded by Ibericus.



The Provence sample is from the Nice area, they are pretty much ethnically N.Italians, since you are yourself close N.Italy it reflects that. People i have from my family in Provence match better anything else than their own regions, because it's not based on ethnic Provence, it would have been too similar to the eastern france samples, it's the reason i guess. I don't know Provençal, i grew up around Lyon. Nobody speaks it anyway, there is a slight accent in some places, but hardly noticable except from Marseille, which is a thing on his own in France.


In that K36 tool there is no academic sample from Provence or from Nice. French averages on K36 tool are based on the Gedmatch kits of ethnic French people chosen by Tolan himself.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

85 is Aosta Valley.

What about people from Aosta Valley? Are they ethnically North Italian as well?

[Percivalle]

What about people from Aosta Valley? Are they ethnically North Italian as well?

Their raw data were taken by Ibericus from Anagnostou's paper and uploaded on Gedmatch, and that paper consider those people ethnically northern Italian and an open community (and not a linguistic minority). I'm just reporting you what the paper states. Anagnostou labelled his Aostan samples as NIT, Northern Italian, as it's written in the paper.

In Aosta Valley both French and Italian are spoken, but the French-speaking minority (Franco-Provencal) is now around 15% of the population.

In a PCA those Aostans are northern Italians with a French shift.

http://i.imgur.com/elGTRHo.png

[Sikeliot]

Living in Provence for a while i ve been seeing probably millions people of Italians and Iberians descent for years, it's not only based on sikelliot threads, though these people do exist in great numbers. I maintain that they look very different to me. Of course N.Italy is a whole different story, but not to the extent people believe here either..

Yes. If you want to look through the photo sets here you go. I absolutely do not cherrypick them :lol:

https://www.facebook.com/PINKCODEPALERMO/photos/?ref=page_internal
https://www.facebook.com/pg/PremiereDiscoClub/photos/?ref=page_internal
https://www.facebook.com/pg/DON-Messina-163055720395894/photos/?ref=page_internal
https://www.facebook.com/pg/NightLabEvents/photos/?tab=albums

[Petalpusher]

85 is Aosta Valley, based on the kits uploaded by Ibericus.





In that K36 tool there is no academic sample from Provence or from Nice. French averages on K36 tool are based on the Gedmatch kits of ethnic French people chosen by Tolan himself.

I don't know exactly what was used in K36, i don't even see a square situated there, the one that is onto the border of France might be Aoste as you say, but I was talking about the "Provencal" samples that we see in mdlp and some other calculators usually mispelled 'Provencestralal', i remember Viriato was getting it very high because it's basically N.Italians. Nobody i ve ever seen from Provence was matching it, my maternal side doesn't even get it in their top 20 and 3 other people it was very far in their oracle (people from Comtat Venaissin, Aix and Sisteron).

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Some runs give me Provençal as my first match even instead of Portugal, lol.

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Provencal_Provence @ 5.133366
2 Portuguese_Portugal @ 5.430912
3 Spanish_Spain @ 7.016639
4 Swiss_Switzerland @ 7.143991
5 Spanish_Baleares @ 7.450321
6 Corsican_Corsica @ 7.828090
7 Italian_Bergamo @ 8.247762
8 Italian_Friul @ 8.295364
9 French_EastFrance @ 8.667055
10 Spanish_Extremadura @ 8.677132
11 French_NorthwestFrance @ 9.083564
12 Italian_NorthIitaly @ 9.431755
13 Spanish_Galicia @ 9.459110
14 German_Germany @ 9.818648
15 Spanish_Murcia @ 10.048248
16 Romanian_Gorj @ 10.057814
17 Spanish_Cataluna @ 10.429262
18 Romanian_Apuseni @ 10.442113
19 Spanish_Andalucia @ 10.536046
20 Montenegrian_Montenegro @ 10.921529

[Nurzat]

may be closer but are not close for sure. >18/20 is a huge difference to another population.

you use Eurogenes K13 so here is my result to compare - the difference to West Germanic nations is overall similar, but cannot be considered a close call, i.e. saying Romanians are genetically close to Germanics. my funny result comes from being a mix of West Ukrainian (Ruthenian) and Northeast Romanian (Moldovan), DNA-wise I seem to be pulled a bit closer to Romanians than to Ukrainians, due to the slight Balkanic influence on Carpathian Ukrainians that lacks or is weaker in other Ukrainians. anyway, this is an overall similarity test, right, so it doesn't mean actual ancestry from here or there, I mean it is not an IBD (identity by descent) test that looks at how much cM (centiMorgans) you share with the other populations, to see where your recent ancestry comes from - according to IBD tests I usually get clustered with Central European Germanics (Fennoscandia project and McDonald placed me as such). so here is my K13 oracle:

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Moldavian 3.77
2 Serbian 6.09
3 Croatian 6.69
4 Hungarian 8.28
5 Romanian 8.38
6 Bulgarian 10.38
7 Austrian 11.83
8 East_German 12.65
9 Ukrainian_Lviv 12.71
10 South_Polish 13.57
11 Ukrainian 13.96
12 Polish 17.14
13 Southwest_Russian 17.43
14 Ukrainian_Belgorod 17.43
15 West_German 18.1
16 Greek_Thessaly 19.11
17 Russian_Smolensk 19.22
18 South_Dutch 19.53
19 Estonian_Polish 19.91
20 Tatar 19.91

[Petalpusher]

Some runs give me Provençal as my first match even instead of Portugal, lol.

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Provencal_Provence @ 5.133366
2 Portuguese_Portugal @ 5.430912
3 Spanish_Spain @ 7.016639
4 Swiss_Switzerland @ 7.143991
5 Spanish_Baleares @ 7.450321
6 Corsican_Corsica @ 7.828090
7 Italian_Bergamo @ 8.247762
8 Italian_Friul @ 8.295364
9 French_EastFrance @ 8.667055
10 Spanish_Extremadura @ 8.677132
11 French_NorthwestFrance @ 9.083564
12 Italian_NorthIitaly @ 9.431755
13 Spanish_Galicia @ 9.459110
14 German_Germany @ 9.818648
15 Spanish_Murcia @ 10.048248
16 Romanian_Gorj @ 10.057814
17 Spanish_Cataluna @ 10.429262
18 Romanian_Apuseni @ 10.442113
19 Spanish_Andalucia @ 10.536046
20 Montenegrian_Montenegro @ 10.921529

That's what i was talking about, compare it to someone actually from Provence for as long as we can record in the same calculator. No Provence given:



Using 1 population approximation:
1 Germans @ 2,920584
2 French_East @ 4,966448
3 French_Northwest @ 4,972009
4 French_West @ 5,626845
5 Scottish_Dumfries_Galloway @ 5,899369
6 French @ 6,03291
7 Scottish_Fife @ 6,119993
8 German_Lipsian @ 6,159936
9 Dutch @ 6,18164
10 Scottish_Borders @ 6,406381
11 Scottish_Grampian @ 6,490404
12 Scottish_Highlands @ 6,686572
13 Germany_South @ 6,694444
14 English @ 6,79532
15 Irish_Connacht @ 6,87083
16 English_Kent_GBR @ 7,079383
17 Irish_Munster @ 7,268632
18 German @ 7,291953
19 Irish_Leinster @ 7,345797
20 France @ 7,39096

The sample is geographically in what is Provence today, but ethnically quite different than the "real" Provencal. It's my mother results, ironically it appears at the end of my father's oracle who is mostly from Burgundy and Rhone region but has a bit of Swiss (which is closer to N.Italy)

[Leto]

may be closer but are not close for sure. >18/20 is a huge difference to another population.

you use Eurogenes K13 so here is my result to compare - the difference to West Germanic nations is overall similar, but cannot be considered a close call, i.e. saying Romanians are genetically close to Germanics. my funny result comes from being a mix of West Ukrainian (Ruthenian) and Northeast Romanian (Moldovan), DNA-wise I seem to be pulled a bit closer to Romanians than to Ukrainians, due to the slight Balkanic influence on Carpathian Ukrainians that lacks or is weaker in other Ukrainians. anyway, this is an overall similarity test, right, so it doesn't mean actual ancestry from here or there, I mean it is not an IBD (identity by descent) test that looks at how much cM (centiMorgans) you share with the other populations, to see where your recent ancestry comes from - according to IBD tests I usually get clustered with Central European Germanics (Fennoscandia project and McDonald placed me as such). so here is my K13 oracle:

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Moldavian 3.77
2 Serbian 6.09
3 Croatian 6.69
4 Hungarian 8.28
5 Romanian 8.38
6 Bulgarian 10.38
7 Austrian 11.83
8 East_German 12.65
9 Ukrainian_Lviv 12.71
10 South_Polish 13.57
11 Ukrainian 13.96
12 Polish 17.14
13 Southwest_Russian 17.43
14 Ukrainian_Belgorod 17.43
15 West_German 18.1
16 Greek_Thessaly 19.11
17 Russian_Smolensk 19.22
18 South_Dutch 19.53
19 Estonian_Polish 19.91
20 Tatar 19.91
Can you add the admixture proportions as well?

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

That's what i was talking about, compare it to someone actually from Provence for as long as we can record in the same calculator. No Provence given:



Using 1 population approximation:
1 Germans @ 2,920584
2 French_East @ 4,966448
3 French_Northwest @ 4,972009
4 French_West @ 5,626845
5 Scottish_Dumfries_Galloway @ 5,899369
6 French @ 6,03291
7 Scottish_Fife @ 6,119993
8 German_Lipsian @ 6,159936
9 Dutch @ 6,18164
10 Scottish_Borders @ 6,406381
11 Scottish_Grampian @ 6,490404
12 Scottish_Highlands @ 6,686572
13 Germany_South @ 6,694444
14 English @ 6,79532
15 Irish_Connacht @ 6,87083
16 English_Kent_GBR @ 7,079383
17 Irish_Munster @ 7,268632
18 German @ 7,291953
19 Irish_Leinster @ 7,345797
20 France @ 7,39096

The sample is geographically in what is Provence today, but ethnically quite different than the "real" Provencal. It's my mother results, ironically it appears at the end of my father's oracle who is mostly from Burgundy and Rhone region but has a bit of Swiss (which is closer to N.Italy)

Yeah, the Provençal samples seem to be off for the region in most projects. Your mother's results seem a bit surprising as well though, to the best of my knowledge she could easily be from Alsace.

That impression could be as well because there's this idea that France is divided genetically depending on the region but perhaps ethnic French people are more homogenous than what people usually claim in TA.

[Percivalle]

I don't know exactly what was used in K36, i don't even see a square situated there, the one that is onto the border of France might be Aoste as you say, but I was talking about the "Provencal" samples that we see in mdlp and some other calculators usually mispelled 'Provencestralal', i remember Viriato was getting it very high because it's basically N.Italians. Nobody i ve ever seen from Provence was matching it, my maternal side doesn't even get it in their top 20 and 3 other people it was very far in their oracle (people from Comtat Venaissin, Aix and Sisteron).

I am well aware of which sample you are talking about. And this is not new, some academic samples used by both Verenich and Davidski are not accurate, not only that French sample. That's quite evident. Also because even some academic samples used by peer-reviewed studies are not accurate.

Anyway, these samples typically come from PR studies. In which academic study was a Provençal population analyzed? Or something that can resemble that sample? if the study is found, it is possible to go back, perhaps, to the source of the sample.

[Vid Flumina]

That's what i was talking about, compare it to someone actually from Provence for as long as we can record in the same calculator. No Provence given:



Using 1 population approximation:
1 Germans @ 2,920584
2 French_East @ 4,966448
3 French_Northwest @ 4,972009
4 French_West @ 5,626845
5 Scottish_Dumfries_Galloway @ 5,899369
6 French @ 6,03291
7 Scottish_Fife @ 6,119993
8 German_Lipsian @ 6,159936
9 Dutch @ 6,18164
10 Scottish_Borders @ 6,406381
11 Scottish_Grampian @ 6,490404
12 Scottish_Highlands @ 6,686572
13 Germany_South @ 6,694444
14 English @ 6,79532
15 Irish_Connacht @ 6,87083
16 English_Kent_GBR @ 7,079383
17 Irish_Munster @ 7,268632
18 German @ 7,291953
19 Irish_Leinster @ 7,345797
20 France @ 7,39096

The sample is geographically in what is Provence today, but ethnically quite different than the "real" Provencal. It's my mother results, ironically it appears at the end of my father's oracle who is mostly from Burgundy and Rhone region but has a bit of Swiss (which is closer to N.Italy)

From what I've seen Inner Provence is genetically similar to other Occitans, not much different from Ardèche, Loire and Haute Garonne. The ones who actually stand out in SE France are northern Savoyards, they seem to fall in a cluster with Eastern French, Swiss, Tyroleans and some Aostan/Cimbrians.

[Vid Flumina]

https://s15.postimg.cc/52igqadaz/Sem_T_tulo.jpg

And this where that guy from Veneto plots on the k15 pca map. Quite on pair with the north italian sample average that you say is all from the northwest, at least on this specific kit which was the first that came up when I did a quick search. Definitely not more northen than iberians.

Mine (am half Venetian and plot with Venetians)

https://i.imgur.com/vYsE96o.png

[Petalpusher]

From what I've seen Inner Provence is genetically similar to other Occitans, not much different from Ardèche, Loire and Haute Garonne. The ones who actually stand out in SE France are northern Savoyards, they seem to fall in a cluster with Eastern French, Swiss, Tyroleans and some Aostan/Cimbrians.

The guy who created nmonte who is South Dutch, thinks from Benelux to southeast France there are only statistical differences and i ve seen a guy from Carpentras being on the same point as some Belgians so it's not crazy as it sounds but i don't now if i would go that far. Haute Garonne would be different in the regions you listed at least this is where the soutwhest sample comes from and we are rarely close to it, very Basque shifted, like a genetically Basque pulled east or just intermediate with eastern France. This is anyway documented in that France study that you might have seen, only the SW is really different, all others regions can overlap with each others. On the Reich plots it's a bit crazy, they put everything from Belgians, Corsicans, Basques, Swiss, Luxembourg in "French", it makes the cluster appear much more spread than it really is for like +90% of the population.

[Vid Flumina]

The guy who created nmonte who is South Dutch, thinks from Benelux to southeast France there are only statistical differences and i ve seen a guy from Carpentras being on the same point as some Belgians so it's not crazy as it sounds but i don't now if i would go that far. Haute Garonne would be different in the regions you listed at least this is where the soutwhest sample comes from and we are rarely close to it, very Basque shifted, like a genetically Basque pulled east or just intermediate with eastern France. This is anyway documented in that France study that you might have seen, only the SW is really different, all others regions can overlap with each others. On the Reich plots it's a bit crazy, they put everything from Belgians, Corsicans, Basques, Swiss, Luxembourg in "French", it makes the cluster appear much more spread than it really is for like +90% of the population.

I have seen results from Toulouse which are essentially halfway between the SW French sample and the French sample, nearly overlapping with Auvergne and parts of Rhône-Alpes.

[ADonkeyBrain]

I love how these threads always end up with Iberians and Italians arguing about who is more "northern" and whether some northern Italian populations really are more northern than non-Basque Iberians. Lol.

Here are the distances in Global25, after averaging the Spanish sample (minus the Canarians): https://justpaste.it/2zx11

[Ajeje Brazorf]

Here are the distances in Global25, after averaging the Spanish sample (minus the Canarians): https://justpaste.it/2zx11

Do you have the euclidean distances for the South_Italian sample of Eurogenes K15?

[ADonkeyBrain]

Do you have the euclidean distances for the South_Italian sample of Eurogenes K15?

I don't, but if it's the exact same one here, it seems to be from far south Italy: https://justpaste.it/25f3j

[Tietar]

I love how these threads always end up with Iberians and Italians arguing about who is more "northern" and whether some northern Italian populations really are more northern than non-Basque Iberians. Lol.

I hate these threads in which people think that there are Spaniards fighting with Italians, when there are not even Spaniards writing in the thread because they do not give a shit about this matter

[Sikeliot]

I don't, but if it's the exact same one here, it seems to be from far south Italy: https://justpaste.it/25f3j

Crete is very close to south Italy as expected.

[Ajeje Brazorf]

I hate these threads in which people think that there are Spaniards fighting with Italians, when there are not even Spaniards writing in the thread because they do not give a shit about this matter

In fact, no one is fighting in this thread and I don't give a shit either to be further north or further south.

[Sikeliot]

I don't, but if it's the exact same one here, it seems to be from far south Italy: https://justpaste.it/25f3j

Where is the full list?

[Bloody]

It depends.

Someone who looks like this -- if this is a common Spanish look, could pass in nearly all of Europe (including UK and Sicily) but I'd say this look is more common to Britain than Sicily.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?246074-classify-spanish-actress-Clara-Alvarado

But people who look like Penelope Cruz or Raul Albiol would definitely not be closer to NW Europe.

Sorry but that woman look extremely spanish, its almost screaming out when you see her pictures. She doesnt look NW European, she looks typical Spanish, everywhere you go.

[Sikeliot]

Sorry but that woman look extremely spanish, its almost screaming out when you see her pictures. She doesnt look NW European, she looks typical Spanish, everywhere you go.

She fits better in Britain than Sicily. I never said she looks British overall though.

[Bloody]

She fits better in Britain than Sicily. I never said she looks British overall though.

Fitting is the most retarded concept invented ever...

She looks very spanish, I see her everywhere I assume she is a Spanish Erasmus student.. And No , British women would only wish to look anywhere close to that..

[ADonkeyBrain]

Where is the full list?

No full list of distances, just used the global25 spreadsheets (at eurogenes) and nmonte. That was just from the first run to give a general sense of what that particular sample looks like. Otoh, I finished the Iberian one when the most distant European population came up (Latvians).

[Alessio]

Yes you're right.


Sorry but that woman look extremely spanish, its almost screaming out when you see her pictures. She doesnt look NW European, she looks typical Spanish, everywhere you go.

[Ruggery]

This allows me to understand that genetics and phenotype do not always go hand in hand, because if that were the case, Spaniards would be more phenotypically similar to British, German, Dutch and even Danish than Sicilian.

However, that does not happen, I do not say that all Sicilians can pass in Spain, but many will not stand out in Spain, especially in the south, but some British and Germans, of course, will also pass some British and Germans in Spain. , but I do not believe in great quantity that the Sicilians.

[Sikeliot]

This allows me to understand that genetics and phenotype do not always go hand in hand, because if that were the case, Spaniards would be more phenotypically similar to British, German, Dutch and even Danish than Sicilian.


I would say though that far more Spaniards could pass as British, Dutch, German than could Sicilians pass as those ethnicities. Even if most Spaniards look more South European than North European.

[tekken999]

Based on GEDMatch results I have seen, the Spanish are closer to Austria/Germany and in some cases even southern England, than to Sicily.

Now, it is undeniable Spanish are closer to NORTH Italians and Tuscans than to any of the above, but when it comes to NW Europe or Sicily, they appear closer to the former.

Is this a persistent pattern? Here are some Spanish results, does anyone have others that either prove or counter this?


I know my gedmatch results might not count for much since I'm puerto rican which makes me basically black according to some peoples views on puerto ricans on here but I still have some spaniard in me at least. Anyhow, dutch and austrian shows up for mine as well.

This is from EUtest V2 K15

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Atlantic 23.79
2 West_Med 17.72
3 North_Sea 16.11
4 Amerindian 9.87
5 East_Med 8.79
6 Baltic 6.20
7 Eastern_Euro 4.41
8 Sub-Saharan 4.05
9 Red_Sea 3.49
10 Northeast_African 1.72
11 Siberian 1.37
12 West_Asian 1.27


Finished reading population data. 207 populations found.
15 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Portuguese @ 12.728664
2 Spanish_Extremadura @ 12.818033
3 Spanish_Murcia @ 13.270893
4 Spanish_Galicia @ 13.334726
5 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 13.418543
6 Spanish_Cataluna @ 13.969191
7 Spanish_Andalucia @ 14.707794
8 North_Italian @ 14.769558
9 Spanish_Valencia @ 14.849102
10 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 15.242348
11 Spanish_Cantabria @ 15.308724
12 Southwest_French @ 16.300249
13 Spanish_Aragon @ 16.689562
14 French @ 17.180973
15 Tuscan @ 19.045301
16 Serbian @ 20.409477
17 South_Dutch @ 20.743446
18 Romanian @ 21.502945
19 Austrian @ 21.732723
20 Bulgarian @ 22.312880

[Ruggery]

I would say though that far more Spaniards could pass as British, Dutch, German than could Sicilians pass as those ethnicities. Even if most Spaniards look more South European than North European.

if it is also but the Spaniards and Sicilians look south euros anyway we will put group images of each ethnic group and we will compare them.
Sicilians
https://gabrielleinsicily.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/img_2603.jpg
Germans
http://www.aloisiuskolleg.de/fotos/albums/userpics/10002/2015-09-15_SV_2015-16_2_950.JPG
British
https://www.conoreng.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Harper-Adams-Students-sponsorship.jpg
Dutch
http://semmelweis-egyetem.hu/english/files/2012/05/IMG_4345_681px.jpg
Danish
https://www.sbs.com.au/yourlanguage/sites/sbs.com.au.yourlanguage/files/styles/big_picture/public/4_129.jpg?itok=Svvs8Oh5
Spanish
http://yourniskayuna.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/ynsk_oct17_Spanish_02.jpg

who is more similar to Spanish.

[Sikeliot]

if it is also but the Spaniards and Sicilians look south euros anyway we will put group images of each ethnic group and we will compare them.
Sicilians
https://gabrielleinsicily.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/img_2603.jpg
Germans
http://www.aloisiuskolleg.de/fotos/albums/userpics/10002/2015-09-15_SV_2015-16_2_950.JPG
British
https://www.conoreng.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Harper-Adams-Students-sponsorship.jpg
Dutch
http://semmelweis-egyetem.hu/english/files/2012/05/IMG_4345_681px.jpg
Danish
https://www.sbs.com.au/yourlanguage/sites/sbs.com.au.yourlanguage/files/styles/big_picture/public/4_129.jpg?itok=Svvs8Oh5
Spanish
http://yourniskayuna.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/ynsk_oct17_Spanish_02.jpg

who is more similar to Spanish.



The Spanish and Sicilians definitely do not look interchangeable (too much Levantine/Caucasian in the Sicilians when compared to Spain) but the rest of the groups look North Euro.

[Ruggery]

The Spanish and Sicilians definitely do not look interchangeable (too much Levantine/Caucasian in the Sicilians when compared to Spain) but the rest of the groups look North Euro.

Then we come to the conclusion the Spanish do not look like any in all the groups stand out.

[Helen]

From Spaniardhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181029/42e0d16c4fafbc1a4035aaf66691d019.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181029/2b6d9da46cf19bec5aa44bc0ea3b9673.jpg

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[Ruggery]

From Spaniardhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181029/42e0d16c4fafbc1a4035aaf66691d019.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181029/2b6d9da46cf19bec5aa44bc0ea3b9673.jpg

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The same percentage goes with Venezuela and Switzerland.

[Helen]

The same percentage goes with Venezuela and Switzerland.I don't know why

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[Jana]

Spanish facial features are more British than Sicilian but their coloration is more Sicilian than British.
Just like Croatian facial features are more Polish than Albanian, but coloration is more Albanian than Polish.

Facial features matter more, ofcourse.

[alnortedelsur]

Compare to mine, though I know I'm not full Spanish, but I have some distant Italian ancestry plus hints of SSA and Amerindian:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 31.95
2 West_Med 22.01
3 East_Med 15.7
4 Baltic 8.88
5 Amerindian 6.66
6 Sub-Saharan 5.34
7 West_Asian 4.2
8 Red_Sea 3.12
9 Northeast_African 1.4
10 Siberian 0.75

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Spanish_Extremadura 11.22
2 Portuguese 11.35
3 North_Italian 11.55
4 Spanish_Murcia 12.06
5 Spanish_Galicia 12.36
6 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 12.99
7 Spanish_Andalucia 13.1
8 Spanish_Valencia 13.24
9 Spanish_Cataluna 13.51
10 Tuscan 13.89
11 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 13.95
12 Spanish_Cantabria 15.09
13 French 16.16
14 Spanish_Aragon 16.25
15 Southwest_French 16.97
16 West_Sicilian 18.25
17 Italian_Abruzzo 18.97
18 Greek_Thessaly 19.22
19 Romanian 19.58
20 West_German 20.34

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 90.8% Spanish_Extremadura + 9.2% North_Amerindian @ 6.78
2 92% Spanish_Extremadura + 8% Pima @ 6.93
3 91.7% Spanish_Extremadura + 8.3% Mayan @ 6.94
4 91.6% Portuguese + 8.4% Mayan @ 6.97
5 90.8% Portuguese + 9.2% North_Amerindian @ 6.99
6 92% Portuguese + 8% Pima @ 7.04
7 92.9% Spanish_Extremadura + 7.1% Karitiana @ 7.08
8 92.8% Portuguese + 7.2% Karitiana @ 7.15
9 91.9% North_Italian + 8.1% Mayan @ 7.61
10 90.5% Spanish_Murcia + 9.5% North_Amerindian @ 7.7
11 92.2% North_Italian + 7.8% Pima @ 7.72
12 91.4% Spanish_Murcia + 8.6% Mayan @ 7.72
13 93% North_Italian + 7% Karitiana @ 7.76
14 91.7% Spanish_Murcia + 8.3% Pima @ 7.76
15 91.2% North_Italian + 8.8% North_Amerindian @ 7.8
16 88.8% Spanish_Extremadura + 11.2% West_Greenlander @ 7.83
17 89.9% Spanish_Extremadura + 10.1% East_Greenlander @ 7.86
18 92.6% Spanish_Murcia + 7.4% Karitiana @ 7.91
19 90.4% Spanish_Galicia + 9.6% North_Amerindian @ 8.03
20 91.2% Spanish_Galicia + 8.8% Mayan @ 8.03

[Ruggery]

I don't know why

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In addition, the study says that Spaniards are more genetically close to Mexicans than Argentines, Germans and British.

[Helen]

In addition, the study says that Spaniards are more genetically close to Mexicans than Argentines, Germans and British.I don't think I look Mexican

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[Smeagol]

Iberians aren't close to Sicilians at all.

[Ruggery]

I don't think I look Mexican

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I have no idea how you look to think that.

[FilhoV]

In my top 20 I get West Sicilian @ 18 and Abruzzo @19

[Sikeliot]

In my top 20 I get West Sicilian @ 18 and Abruzzo @19

North African input in the West Sicily sample pushes it slightly ahead I think for you.

[Insuperable]

Good morning.

[curiousabouthist1212]

i actually got tested with a company that told me that the spanish DNA i have is uncommon in spaniards today but common in spain/latin america before the reconquista.
// not to bump this thread

[Ibericus]

Not just closer than to South Italians, many Spaniards can get even closer to Germanic/English than to Tuscans or North ITalians. See this examples:


Catalan:

1 Spanish_Cataluna 4.38
2 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 5.29
3 Spanish_Murcia 6.15
4 Portuguese 6.23
5 French 6.41
6 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 6.42
7 Spanish_Galicia 6.55
8 Spanish_Valencia 6.92
9 Spanish_Extremadura 6.93
10 Spanish_Cantabria 6.94
11 Spanish_Aragon 7.84
12 Spanish_Andalucia 8.01
13 Southwest_French 8.47
14 South_Dutch 12.2
15 West_German 12.7
16 North_Italian 12.73
17 Southeast_English 15.83
18 Southwest_English 15.9
19 French_Basque 17.29
20 Orcadian 18.18



Cantabrian:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Spanish_Aragon 5.01
2 Spanish_Cantabria 5.14
3 Southwest_French 5.4
4 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 6.64
5 Spanish_Cataluna 7
6 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 7.14
7 Spanish_Valencia 7.68
8 Spanish_Murcia 8.29
9 Spanish_Galicia 8.78
10 Spanish_Andalucia 9.19
11 Portuguese 9.35
12 Spanish_Extremadura 9.58
13 French_Basque 11.08
14 French 11.36
15 South_Dutch 16.05
16 West_German 17.12
17 North_Italian 17.26
18 Southwest_English 17.4
19 Southeast_English 17.86
20 Orcadian 20.06

[Sikeliot]

Not just closer than to South Italians, many Spaniards can get even closer to Germanic/English than to Tuscans or North ITalians. See this examples:

This is due to Caucasus-like admixture in all Italians that Iberians have less of.

[Bobby Martnen]

Not just closer than to South Italians, many Spaniards can get even closer to Germanic/English than to Tuscans or North ITalians. See this examples:


I'm sure some North Italians are closer to Brits than to Iberians.

https://i.imgur.com/vKlqMfZ.png

[Token]

Depends on the region. Castilla y León, Asturias, Cantabria and Cataluna are genetically closer to Northern Europeans than to South Italians. Extremadura, Portugal, Andalucia and Galicia nope.

[Mingle]

may be closer but are not close for sure. >18/20 is a huge difference to another population.

you use Eurogenes K13 so here is my result to compare - the difference to West Germanic nations is overall similar, but cannot be considered a close call, i.e. saying Romanians are genetically close to Germanics. my funny result comes from being a mix of West Ukrainian (Ruthenian) and Northeast Romanian (Moldovan), DNA-wise I seem to be pulled a bit closer to Romanians than to Ukrainians, due to the slight Balkanic influence on Carpathian Ukrainians that lacks or is weaker in other Ukrainians. anyway, this is an overall similarity test, right, so it doesn't mean actual ancestry from here or there, I mean it is not an IBD (identity by descent) test that looks at how much cM (centiMorgans) you share with the other populations, to see where your recent ancestry comes from - according to IBD tests I usually get clustered with Central European Germanics (Fennoscandia project and McDonald placed me as such). so here is my K13 oracle:

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Moldavian 3.77
2 Serbian 6.09
3 Croatian 6.69
4 Hungarian 8.28
5 Romanian 8.38
6 Bulgarian 10.38
7 Austrian 11.83
8 East_German 12.65
9 Ukrainian_Lviv 12.71
10 South_Polish 13.57
11 Ukrainian 13.96
12 Polish 17.14
13 Southwest_Russian 17.43
14 Ukrainian_Belgorod 17.43
15 West_German 18.1
16 Greek_Thessaly 19.11
17 Russian_Smolensk 19.22
18 ]South_Dutch 19.53
19 Estonian_Polish 19.91
20 Tatar 19.91

How come you're so genetically distant to Ukrainians (compared to ethnic Romanians) when you're half Ukrainian?

[Ruggery]

I'm sure some North Italians are closer to Brits than to Iberians.

https://i.imgur.com/vKlqMfZ.png

What makes you believe that?

[Ibericus]

Depends on the region. Castilla y León, Asturias, Cantabria and Cataluna are genetically closer to Northern Europeans than to South Italians. Extremadura, Portugal, Andalucia and Galicia nope.
for most Andalusians is not the case, and for Galicians definately not.

Galicia

# Population (source) Distance
1 Spanish_Galicia 2.84
2 Portuguese 3.84
3 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 4.13
4 Spanish_Cataluna 4.28
5 Spanish_Cantabria 4.93
6 Spanish_Valencia 4.96
7 Spanish_Extremadura 5.02
8 Spanish_Murcia 5.49
9 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 5.71
10 Southwest_French 6.16
11 Spanish_Andalucia 6.98
12 Spanish_Aragon 7.73
13 French 8.94
14 North_Italian 10.79
15 South_Dutch 14.73
16 West_German 15.09
17 Tuscan 17
18 French_Basque 18.37
19 Southeast_English 18.9
20 Austrian 19.06


Galician

# Population (source) Distance
1 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 2.6
2 Spanish_Galicia 3.11
3 Spanish_Cataluna 3.3
4 Portuguese 3.74
5 Spanish_Cantabria 4.2
6 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 4.68
7 Spanish_Murcia 4.83
8 Spanish_Extremadura 5.03
9 Spanish_Valencia 5.23
10 Southwest_French 5.81
11 Spanish_Andalucia 6.69
12 Spanish_Aragon 6.75
13 French 7.61
14 North_Italian 11.92
15 South_Dutch 13.45
16 West_German 13.99
17 French_Basque 17.03
18 Southeast_English 17.37
19 Southwest_English 17.55
20 Tuscan 18.07


Andalusian

# Population (source) Distance
1 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 3.69
2 Spanish_Cataluna 3.92
3 Portuguese 4.2
4 Spanish_Murcia 4.32
5 Spanish_Valencia 4.34
6 Spanish_Galicia 5.23
7 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 5.79
8 Spanish_Extremadura 5.83
9 Spanish_Cantabria 6.41
10 Spanish_Aragon 7.08
11 Spanish_Andalucia 7.12
12 Southwest_French 8.09
13 French 8.98
14 North_Italian 11.39
15 South_Dutch 14.89
16 West_German 15.22
17 Tuscan 17.06
18 French_Basque 18.46
19 Southeast_English 18.46
20 Southwest_English 19.05


Andalusian

# Population (source) Distance
1 Spanish_Aragon 2.9
2 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 3.51
3 Spanish_Cantabria 3.69
4 Spanish_Valencia 4.95
5 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 4.96
6 Spanish_Murcia 5.13
7 Spanish_Andalucia 5.18
8 Spanish_Extremadura 5.55
9 Spanish_Cataluna 5.56
10 Southwest_French 6.15
11 Spanish_Galicia 6.2
12 Portuguese 6.45
13 French 12.41
14 French_Basque 13.51
15 North_Italian 13.65
16 South_Dutch 18.25
17 West_German 18.9
18 Tuscan 19.42
19 Southwest_English 21.05
20 Southeast_English 21.3


Andalusian

# Population (source) Distance
1 Spanish_Valencia 2.92
2 Spanish_Cantabria 3.06
3 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 3.19
4 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 3.58
5 Spanish_Cataluna 3.86
6 Spanish_Murcia 4.09
7 Spanish_Aragon 4.12
8 Spanish_Galicia 4.72
9 Spanish_Andalucia 4.72
10 Spanish_Extremadura 4.89
11 Portuguese 4.96
12 Southwest_French 5.03
13 French 11.33
14 North_Italian 11.9
15 French_Basque 15.34
16 South_Dutch 17.17
17 West_German 17.72
18 Tuscan 18.07
19 Southeast_English 20.66
20 Southwest_English 20.78

[Damião de Góis]

Depends on the region. Castilla y León, Asturias, Cantabria and Cataluna are genetically closer to Northern Europeans than to South Italians. Extremadura, Portugal, Andalucia and Galicia nope.

Depends on the individual rather than the region, and depends on what you mean by south italians and northern europeans. I never saw Abruzzo or Sicily in my oracles except on EUtest. But i tipically get Tuscans before Germany like on k13:


# Population (source) Distance
1 Portuguese 2.47
2 Spanish_Extremadura 3.4
3 Spanish_Cataluna 3.71
4 Spanish_Murcia 3.82
5 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 3.89
6 Spanish_Galicia 4.22
7 Spanish_Valencia 4.44
8 Spanish_Andalucia 4.94
9 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 5.17
10 Spanish_Cantabria 6.44
11 Spanish_Aragon 7.94
12 North_Italian 8.53
13 Southwest_French 8.75
14 French 9.38
15 Tuscan 14.39
16 West_German 15.36
17 South_Dutch 15.43
18 French_Basque 19.37
19 Southeast_English 19.82
20 Romanian 19.96

However i'm sure other people from Portugal have different results from mine (i'm from southern Portugal).

[Vasconcelos]

Depends on the region. Castilla y León, Asturias, Cantabria and Cataluna are genetically closer to Northern Europeans than to South Italians. Extremadura, Portugal, Andalucia and Galicia nope.

That is a very simplistic (and wrong) way to see things. Not many native continental Iberians score closer to South Italy/Sicily than to South Dutch/West German/English or whatnot in most Eurogenes calculators - not that they are some kind of universal truth anyway. From the native Portuguese kits I have only one person (form Braga and Viseu, so ironically from the north) scores closer to south Italians than to Germanic speakers. I also have one from a person of distant jewish background who does, but since both have similar results, I suspect the first one also has some distant jewish ancestry.

Even in K13, which is not as good as picking up different sources of ancestry for Europeans as K15, South Italians generally don't even show up in the top 20 pops for Portuguese, let alone other Iberians. If you check correlations on Lukasz K36 reports the trend is the same.

Here are a few Portuguese kit results in K13, followed by the same kit distances using LSM. First kit is mine, second is the missus'

# Population (source) Distance
1 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 3.11
2 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 3.29
3 Spanish_Extremadura 3.6
4 Spanish_Galicia 3.86
5 Spanish_Murcia 3.9
6 Portuguese 4.32
7 Spanish_Andalucia 4.39
8 Spanish_Cantabria 4.42
9 Spanish_Valencia 5.02
10 Spanish_Aragon 5.35
11 Spanish_Cataluna 5.65
12 Southwest_French 6.86
13 North_Italian 11.6
14 French 12.2
15 French_Basque 16.35
16 Tuscan 17.31
17 South_Dutch 18.17
18 West_German 18.65
19 Southwest_English 21.98
20 Southeast_English 22

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 3.309796
2 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 3.629709
3 Spanish_Extremadura @ 3.937467
4 Spanish_Galicia @ 4.226626
5 Spanish_Murcia @ 4.278359
6 Portuguese @ 4.760566
7 Spanish_Cantabria @ 4.761722
8 Spanish_Andalucia @ 4.834264
9 Spanish_Valencia @ 5.333640
10 Spanish_Aragon @ 5.788502
11 Spanish_Cataluna @ 6.111313
12 Southwest_French @ 7.455640
13 North_Italian @ 13.241318
14 French @ 13.557904
15 French_Basque @ 18.597870
16 Tuscan @ 19.949224
17 South_Dutch @ 20.338776
18 West_German @ 20.832329
19 Southeast_English @ 24.712744
20 Southwest_English @ 24.838282


# Population (source) Distance
1 Spanish_Murcia 2.68
2 Spanish_Extremadura 2.78
3 Portuguese 3.08
4 Spanish_Valencia 3.25
5 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 3.28
6 Spanish_Galicia 3.3
7 Spanish_Cataluna 3.83
8 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 3.83
9 Spanish_Andalucia 4.26
10 Spanish_Cantabria 5.15
11 Spanish_Aragon 5.87
12 Southwest_French 7.61
13 North_Italian 10.02
14 French 10.68
15 Tuscan 15.8
16 South_Dutch 16.89
17 West_German 17.2
18 French_Basque 17.66
19 Southeast_English 20.88
20 Southwest_English 21.15

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Spanish_Murcia @ 2.698320
2 Spanish_Extremadura @ 2.905189
3 Portuguese @ 3.195214
4 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 3.348904
5 Spanish_Valencia @ 3.417206
6 Spanish_Galicia @ 3.557232
7 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 4.000814
8 Spanish_Cataluna @ 4.191840
9 Spanish_Andalucia @ 4.577884
10 Spanish_Cantabria @ 5.745277
11 Spanish_Aragon @ 6.477364
12 Southwest_French @ 8.458962
13 North_Italian @ 11.486495
14 French @ 11.955395
15 Tuscan @ 18.254452
16 South_Dutch @ 18.998600
17 West_German @ 19.300179
18 French_Basque @ 20.146772
19 Southeast_English @ 23.583519
20 Southwest_English @ 24.039511


# Population (source) Distance
1 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 3.88
2 Portuguese 4.01
3 Spanish_Galicia 4.37
4 Spanish_Cataluna 4.59
5 Spanish_Murcia 5
6 Spanish_Extremadura 5.66
7 Spanish_Valencia 6.41
8 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 6.57
9 Spanish_Cantabria 7.16
10 French 7.22
11 Spanish_Andalucia 8.01
12 Spanish_Aragon 8.53
13 Southwest_French 9.07
14 North_Italian 11.57
15 South_Dutch 13.25
16 West_German 13.55
17 Tuscan 17.06
18 Southeast_English 17.26
19 Southwest_English 17.67
20 Austrian 18.86

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 4.197486
2 Portuguese @ 4.386368
3 Spanish_Galicia @ 4.792835
4 Spanish_Cataluna @ 4.938164
5 Spanish_Murcia @ 5.506858
6 Spanish_Extremadura @ 6.248637
7 Spanish_Valencia @ 6.980434
8 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 7.190955
9 Spanish_Cantabria @ 7.873719
10 French @ 8.021424
11 Spanish_Andalucia @ 8.862052
12 Spanish_Aragon @ 9.392155
13 Southwest_French @ 9.954544
14 North_Italian @ 13.250019
15 South_Dutch @ 14.887339
16 West_German @ 15.187799
17 Southeast_English @ 19.490616
18 Tuscan @ 19.718197
19 Southwest_English @ 20.118729
20 Austrian @ 21.230007


# Population (source) Distance
1 Portuguese 1.23
2 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 2.37
3 Spanish_Extremadura 2.51
4 Spanish_Murcia 2.66
5 Spanish_Galicia 2.76
6 Spanish_Cataluna 3.76
7 Spanish_Valencia 4.11
8 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 4.17
9 Spanish_Andalucia 4.65
10 Spanish_Cantabria 5.66
11 Spanish_Aragon 7.04
12 Southwest_French 7.95
13 North_Italian 9.16
14 French 9.63
15 Tuscan 15
16 South_Dutch 15.77
17 West_German 15.95
18 French_Basque 18.8
19 Southeast_English 20.11
20 Southwest_English 20.49

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Portuguese @ 1.098104
2 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 2.618256
3 Spanish_Extremadura @ 2.665132
4 Spanish_Murcia @ 2.874637
5 Spanish_Galicia @ 3.039108
6 Spanish_Cataluna @ 4.012800
7 Spanish_Valencia @ 4.358066
8 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 4.588130
9 Spanish_Andalucia @ 5.115720
10 Spanish_Cantabria @ 6.342162
11 Spanish_Aragon @ 7.840276
12 Southwest_French @ 8.849973
13 North_Italian @ 10.458776
14 French @ 10.753754
15 Tuscan @ 17.318356
16 South_Dutch @ 17.755032
17 West_German @ 17.890659
18 French_Basque @ 21.413668
19 Southeast_English @ 22.729294
20 Austrian @ 23.147345


# Population (source) Distance
1 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 4.37
2 Spanish_Murcia 4.41
3 Spanish_Extremadura 4.6
4 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 4.67
5 Spanish_Cataluna 4.71
6 Portuguese 4.95
7 Spanish_Andalucia 5.41
8 Spanish_Galicia 5.57
9 Spanish_Valencia 6.02
10 Spanish_Cantabria 6.49
11 Spanish_Aragon 6.99
12 Southwest_French 8.8
13 French 9.47
14 North_Italian 10.95
15 South_Dutch 15.41
16 West_German 15.67
17 Tuscan 16.48
18 French_Basque 17.43
19 Southeast_English 19.37
20 Southwest_English 19.38

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 4.996986
2 Spanish_Murcia @ 5.036220
3 Spanish_Extremadura @ 5.130263
4 Spanish_Cataluna @ 5.211672
5 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 5.213750
6 Portuguese @ 5.592507
7 Spanish_Andalucia @ 6.032404
8 Spanish_Galicia @ 6.305947
9 Spanish_Valencia @ 6.719510
10 Spanish_Cantabria @ 7.260244
11 Spanish_Aragon @ 7.820445
12 Southwest_French @ 9.819860
13 French @ 10.564848
14 North_Italian @ 12.590726
15 South_Dutch @ 17.294664
16 West_German @ 17.538015
17 Tuscan @ 19.066856
18 French_Basque @ 19.814707
19 Southeast_English @ 21.846075
20 Southwest_English @ 21.988754


# Population (source) Distance
1 Portuguese 4.46
2 Spanish_Galicia 5.88
3 Spanish_Extremadura 6.05
4 Spanish_Murcia 6.13
5 Spanish_Cataluna 6.24
6 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 6.31
7 Spanish_Valencia 6.61
8 North_Italian 6.84
9 Spanish_Andalucia 7.99
10 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 8.31
11 Spanish_Cantabria 9.37
12 French 9.8
13 Spanish_Aragon 10.97
14 Southwest_French 11
15 Tuscan 12.43
16 West_German 15.17
17 South_Dutch 15.49
18 Romanian 17.16
19 Serbian 17.21
20 Bulgarian 18.57

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Portuguese @ 4.976744
2 Spanish_Galicia @ 6.704196
3 Spanish_Extremadura @ 6.777601
4 Spanish_Murcia @ 6.919107
5 Spanish_Cataluna @ 7.104239
6 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 7.186980
7 Spanish_Valencia @ 7.376070
8 North_Italian @ 7.713361
9 Spanish_Andalucia @ 8.940434
10 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 9.380219
11 Spanish_Cantabria @ 10.670943
12 French @ 11.139511
13 Spanish_Aragon @ 12.396774
14 Southwest_French @ 12.457198
15 Tuscan @ 14.282269
16 West_German @ 17.181522
17 South_Dutch @ 17.623537
18 Serbian @ 19.470064
19 Romanian @ 19.521833
20 Austrian @ 21.036259



This is the individual who actually does get South Italy first, but just barely

# Population (source) Distance
1 Portuguese 5.12
2 Spanish_Extremadura 5.16
3 Spanish_Murcia 5.98
4 North_Italian 5.98
5 Spanish_Andalucia 6.01
6 Spanish_Valencia 6.06
7 Spanish_Galicia 6.26
8 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 6.77
9 Spanish_Cataluna 7.34
10 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 7.37
11 Spanish_Cantabria 8.85
12 Spanish_Aragon 10.03
13 Southwest_French 10.62
14 Tuscan 11.69
15 French 13.26
16 West_Sicilian 18.11
17 West_German 18.98
18 Greek_Thessaly 19.12
19 South_Dutch 19.18
20 Romanian 19.19

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Portuguese @ 5.807425
2 Spanish_Extremadura @ 5.876153
3 North_Italian @ 6.673753
4 Spanish_Murcia @ 6.814373
5 Spanish_Andalucia @ 6.823561
6 Spanish_Valencia @ 6.834003
7 Spanish_Galicia @ 7.176306
8 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 7.788116
9 Spanish_Cataluna @ 8.373497
10 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 8.449557
11 Spanish_Cantabria @ 10.205314
12 Spanish_Aragon @ 11.452485
13 Southwest_French @ 12.150491
14 Tuscan @ 13.377291
15 French @ 14.996333
16 West_Sicilian @ 20.885416
17 West_German @ 21.428110
18 Romanian @ 21.698206
19 South_Dutch @ 21.718288
20 Greek_Thessaly @ 21.921715





Iberians are a class of their own, measuring distances from South Italians or Germanic speakers is pointless because both are very distinct and distant form us anyway. It's honestly a bit of a pointless effort, we're only really closely related to other SW Europeans like north Italians and southern French

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

My K13:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Portuguese 2.93
2 Spanish_Extremadura 3.73
3 Spanish_Galicia 4.46
4 Spanish_Murcia 4.54
5 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 4.65
6 Spanish_Andalucia 5.1
7 Spanish_Cataluna 5.16
8 Spanish_Valencia 5.47
9 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 5.68
10 Spanish_Cantabria 7.18
11 North_Italian 7.36
12 Spanish_Aragon 8.77
13 Southwest_French 9.16
14 French 10.16
15 Tuscan 13.28
16 West_German 15.98
17 South_Dutch 16.11
18 Romanian 18.95
19 Serbian 19.21
20 West_Sicilian 19.88

My girlfriend K13:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Spanish_Murcia 3.04
2 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 3.45
3 Spanish_Valencia 3.68
4 Spanish_Cataluna 3.74
5 Spanish_Extremadura 4.03
6 Portuguese 4.03
7 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 4.2
8 Spanish_Galicia 4.61
9 Spanish_Cantabria 5.05
10 Spanish_Andalucia 5.18
11 Spanish_Aragon 5.71
12 Southwest_French 7.48
13 French 10.35
14 North_Italian 11.4
15 South_Dutch 16.33
16 West_German 16.67
17 French_Basque 16.92
18 Tuscan 17.13
19 Southeast_English 19.93
20 Southwest_English 20.19

[FilhoV]

FilhoV
Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Spanish_Extremadura 2.64
2 Portuguese 3.42
3 Spanish_Murcia 3.66
4 Spanish_Andalucia 4.22
5 Spanish_Valencia 4.74
6 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 4.83
7 Spanish_Galicia 4.95
8 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 5.32
9 Spanish_Cataluna 5.96
10 Spanish_Cantabria 7.29
11 North_Italian 7.83
12 Spanish_Aragon 8
13 Southwest_French 9.75
14 French 12.44
15 Tuscan 13.22
16 West_German 18.57
17 South_Dutch 18.62
18 West_Sicilian 19.54
19 French_Basque 19.94
20 Italian_Abruzzo 20.56


Mrs FilhoV

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Spanish_Murcia 4.31
2 Spanish_Extremadura 4.59
3 Spanish_Andalucia 4.94
4 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 5.24
5 Spanish_Valencia 5.33
6 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 5.39
7 Portuguese 5.41
8 Spanish_Galicia 6.23
9 Spanish_Aragon 6.57
10 Spanish_Cantabria 6.85
11 Spanish_Cataluna 7
12 Southwest_French 9.47
13 North_Italian 11.47
14 French 14.03
15 Tuscan 16.47
16 French_Basque 17.75
17 South_Dutch 20.08
18 West_German 20.31
19 West_Sicilian 22.42
20 Southeast_English 23.75