Greek Thessalian tribe/Karagounides

[Dorian]

Karagounides (Greek: Καραγκούνηδες; Singular: Karagounis Greek: Καραγκούνης) is the name of the native people of the western plains of Thessaly, Greece. More specifically, the term is used to refer to the inhabitants of the lowland farming communities of the Karditsa and Trikala regions, and the area around the city of Farsala.

The older Karagounides still speak the Aeolic dialect of the Greek language.


Out of 124 people found on facebook 36 were Green eyed!so I made different sets for them.

https://s22.postimg.cc/903b4cuqp/Greeneyed_karagounians1.png (https://postimg.cc/image/ebi7p2gt9/)

https://s22.postimg.cc/5e2jomzs1/Greeneyed_karagounians2.png (https://postimg.cc/image/n4489odct/)

https://s22.postimg.cc/dh0q02uox/Greeneyed_karagounians3.png (https://postimg.cc/image/q8ew6l4gt/)

https://s22.postimg.cc/s07v1i39d/greeneyed_karagounians4.png (https://postimg.cc/image/8id7lk6bh/)

https://s22.postimg.cc/n4489bq41/Karagounians2.png (https://postimg.cc/image/lp2nklp0t/)

https://s22.postimg.cc/62be7f65t/Karagounians3.png (https://postimg.cc/image/4n9tip52l/)

https://s22.postimg.cc/498hjdfwx/Karagunians_10.png (https://postimg.cc/image/ql6acrf0t/)

https://s22.postimg.cc/q9ou01ob5/Karagunians1.png (https://postimg.cc/image/oun9bbn7x/)

https://s22.postimg.cc/4d2azk8ip/Karagunians11.png (https://postimg.cc/image/8m711qbrx/)

https://s22.postimg.cc/56ewrswfl/Karagunians12.png (https://postimg.cc/image/ricpl6vjh/)

[Dorian]

https://s22.postimg.cc/a52f6pich/Karagunians13.png (https://postimg.cc/image/j039h874t/)

https://s22.postimg.cc/mwgld8mzl/Karagunians14.png (https://postimg.cc/image/jpm1tm2jh/)

https://s22.postimg.cc/hjrqyxjlt/Karagunians15.png (https://postimg.cc/image/8bzii8cjh/)

https://s22.postimg.cc/ee758qvup/Karagunians16.png (https://postimg.cc/image/w48tts9fh/)

https://s22.postimg.cc/s1hsuyutd/Karagunians4.png (https://postimg.cc/image/wamix4y2l/)

https://s22.postimg.cc/olpokz2ld/Karagunians5.png (https://postimg.cc/image/cjuaqttct/)

https://s22.postimg.cc/4ptp5ilkx/Karagunians6.png (https://postimg.cc/image/w0f0dfohp/)

https://s22.postimg.cc/uldfp3ky9/Karagunians7.png (https://postimg.cc/image/ldl78edvx/)

https://s22.postimg.cc/z8jhqkq81/Karagunians8.png (https://postimg.cc/image/w1oy6y5rx/)

https://s22.postimg.cc/5s3vnxen5/Karagunians9.png (https://postimg.cc/image/rraab4vh9/)

[Sikeliot]

They look similar to Bulgarian/Romanian, more so than to either Italian, Albanian, or Spanish. There is also a near absence of West Asian phenotypes.

The looks I see are mostly Dinarid, Alpine, and Pontid.

[Papastratosels26]

Pontids,Alpines typical mainlanders :thumb001:

[Dorian]

They look similar to Bulgarian/Romanian, more so than to either Italian, Albanian, or Spanish. There is also a near absence of West Asian phenotypes.

The looks I see are mostly Dinarid, Alpine, and Pontid.

Although these people are concentrated in some specific villages around Karditsa and Trikala(these Cities have also vlach/anatolian/sarakatsani people) I wonder if there are any autosomals in&around Karditsa and what do they say?

[Sikeliot]

There are also some pan-European types but most of them do look recognizably "Balkan" to me.

[Sikeliot]

Although these people are concentrated in some specific villages around Karditsa and Trikala(these Cities have also vlach/anatolian/sarakatsani people) I wonder if there are any autosomals in&around Karditsa and what do they say?


I would assume they are similar to other Thessalian people, you can see the results here:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?245627-Greek-Eurogenes-K13-results-from-Macedonia-Thessaly-and-Peloponnese&p=5157949#post5157949

[Vlach-Karag-Sarakats]

Awesome thread! I grew up there and am a mix of these native people!

[Dirdepo]

Awesome thread! I grew up there and am a mix of these native people!

E-V13 is native to Africa, nothing wrong with that

[Vlach-Karag-Sarakats]

E-V13 is native to Africa, nothing wrong with that

who hurt you? why are you miserable? Brush up on your genetic history my friend, we are all native to Africa at some point! E-V13 was dispersed around europe assimilated in indo european bronze age expansion!

[Dirdepo]

who hurt you? why are you miserable? Brush up on your genetic history my friend, we are all native to Africa at some point! E-V13 was dispersed around europe assimilated in indo european bronze age expansion!

Your boosting why you lying

[Vlach-Karag-Sarakats]

Your boosting why you lying

https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_E1b1b_Y-DNA.shtml#origins read on it yourself if you care to learn :)

[Dirdepo]

https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_E1b1b_Y-DNA.shtml#origins read on it yourself if you care to learn :)

Take notes my yute

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[Vlach-Karag-Sarakats]

:bored:

[Tauromachos]

who hurt you? why are you miserable? Brush up on your genetic history my friend, we are all native to Africa at some point! E-V13 was dispersed around europe assimilated in indo european bronze age expansion!

E-V13 is Neolithic not from the Steppe most likely

There were different waves of Neolithic migrations into Europe

E-V13 seems to come likely from that wave of Neolithic Farmers which settled from early on in Greece,Balkans and Thrace(maybe)

[Vlach-Karag-Sarakats]

E-V13 is Neolithic not from the Steppe most likely

There were different waves of Neolithic migrations into Europe

E-V13 seems to come likely from that wave of Neolithic Farmers which settled from early on in Greece,Balkans and Thrace(maybe)

Heck out the eupedia link i sent earlier it discredits the neolithic theory based on newer evidence :) regardless ydna is very little of overall dna it just says distant ancestry. Autosomally i am greek bulgarian and romanian which is consistent with the vlachs and karagounides.

[Tauromachos]

Heck out the eupedia link i sent earlier it discredits the neolithic theory based on newer evidence :) regardless ydna is very little of overall dna it just says distant ancestry. Autosomally i am greek bulgarian and romanian which is consistent with the vlachs and karagounides.

EV-13 is just a subtree of the E clades which are finally Neolithic in origin so it can certainly be traced back to a group of Neolithic Farmers:)

[Vlach-Karag-Sarakats]

They were most likely herders actually unlike the clade before them judging by the speead and because they are in areas where the indo europeans conquered and not where the neolithic farmers reached. It is also possible they were a later wave of neolithic farmers as well. But we just dont have enough conclusive evidence to do anything otjer than speculate at this point. What we know is that the gene entered Greece with the Myceneans and dorics! :)

[dududud]

They looks like ancien greek or "non exotic" greek in my ignorant eyes. But it's a interesting people, from a certain area. It's cool to have picture.

[Tauromachos]

They were most likely herders actually unlike the clade before them judging by the speead and because they are in areas where the indo europeans conquered and not where the neolithic farmers reached. It is also possible they were a later wave of neolithic farmers as well! :)

EV-13 exists but never peaked in Northern Eurasia

All regions where this haplo is very common are relativly South in Europe

[MandM]

Arent they vlah? Have a friend in greece and his GF is karagounides

[hecate]

Arent they vlah? Have a friend in greece and his GF is karagounides

They are probably mixed with the rest of greeks

[xripkan]

Awesome thread! I grew up there and am a mix of these native people!

Do you have gedmatch results? Could you post your Eurogenes K13?

[MandM]

They are probably mixed with the rest of greeks

yes by now they probably are, but there origin is vlah, now if vlah is ancient greek people or other paleobalkan thats up for debatte, by greek friends say that you can hear that they are Karagounides by there greek dialect, what do you say?

[hecate]

yes by now they probably are, but there origin is vlah, now if vlah is ancient greek people or other paleobalkan thats up for debatte, by greek friends say that you can hear that they are Karagounides by there greek dialect, what do you say?
Vlachs probably have palaeo-balkan and ancient greek ancestry. Now people are more mixed ,especially in big cities ,but in villages too.
I never met Karagounides ,but old people are more likely to speak with distinct accents .

[Vlach-Karag-Sarakats]

I'm not sure what the point of your argument is and why you keep trying to make one when you are clearly misinformed on this. I honestly don't blame you because you probably aren't E-V13 and so haven't had the motivation to objectively look into this. Regardless here is the latest things we know:

https://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-E-V13.gif

Yes E-V13 didn't peak in areas where Neolithic farmers reached and in the far north where the I haplogroup and the Hunter Gatherers were. The reason why this map is a little misleading is because it uses current E-V13 distribution. The current distribution around the Balkans is less basal than the E-V13 found in Germany,Czech, Slovakia and Poland. This is why I say you are misinformed, according to Eupedia and the most recent anthropological studies:

"The oldest clades of E-V13 are most common around Germany, the Czech Republic, Slovakia and Poland. I believe that E-V13 could have been a lineage of the Cucuteni-Trypillian people, which was assimilated by Yamna people just before their expansion westward. This would also have been the case of some G2a lineages (Z1816, L13 and L1264 subclades). Some of these lineages (both G2a and E-V13) remained in the Steppe and were taken east by the Proto-Indo-Iranians and to Greece by the Proto-Mycenaeans. Thousands of years of Steppe migrations would have brought more E-V13 from the Steppe to the Balkans." (Source: Eupedia)

"For many years the vast majority of academics have assumed that E-V13 and other E1b1b lineages came to the Balkans from the southern Levant via Anatolia during the Neolithic, and that the high frequency of E-V13 was caused by a founder effect among the colonisers. This theory has it that E1b1b people were associated with the development of Neolithic lifestyle and the advent of agriculture in the Fertile Crescent and its earliest diffusion to Southeast Europe (Thessalian Neolithic) and Mediterranean Europe (Cardium Pottery culture). The testing of ancient DNA from the Natufian culture (Mesolithic Levant) and Pre-Pottery Neolithic Levant confirmed a high incidence of haplogroup E1b1b in that region. However, out of 69 Y-DNA samples tested from Neolithic Europe, only two belonged to that haplogroup: one E-M78 from the Sopot culture in Hungary (5000-4800 BCE), another E-M78 (c. 5000 BCE), possibly E-V13, from north-east Spain, and a E-L618 from Zemunica cave near Split in Croatia from 5500 BCE (Fernandes et al., 2016). Whether these E-M78 samples came with Neolithic farmers from the Near East or were already present among Mesolithic Europeans is unclear at present. But in any case E-V13 was definitely not the major Neolithic European lineage it was once alleged to be." (Source: Eupedia)

"Nowadays E-V13 is the only Mediterranean haplogroup consistently found throughout Europe, even in Norway, Sweden, Finland and Baltic countries, which are conspicuous by the absence of other Neolithic haplogroups like G2a (bar the Indo-European G2a-Z1815), J1 and T (except in Estonia). However, since G2a is the only lineage that was consistently found in all Neolithic sites tested to date in Europe, the absence of Neolithic G2a lineages from Scandinavia and the Baltic implies that no Neolithic lineage survives there, and consequently E-V13 does not date from the Neolithic in the region." (Source: Eupedia)

"This data suggests that the fate of E-V13 was linked to the elite dominance of Bronze Age society. The geographic distribution of the six main branches show that E-V13 quickly spread to all parts of Europe, but was especially common in Central Europe. The only Bronze Age migration that could account for such a fast and far-reaching dispersal is that of the Proto-Indo-Europeans. At present the most consistent explanation is that E-V13 developed from E-M78 in Central or Eastern Europe during the Neolithic period, and was assimilated by the R1a and R1b Proto-Indo-Europeans around the time that they were leaving the Pontic Steppe to invade the rest of Europe." (Source: Eupedia)

"What is surprising with E-V13 is that it is as common in R1a-dominant as in R1b-dominant countries. R1a Indo-European tribes are associated with the Corded Ware culture, which spanned across Northeast Europe, Scandinavia and the northern half of Central Europe. R1b tribes invaded the Balkans, the southern half of Central Europe, and joined up with Corded Ware people in what is now Germany, the Czech Republic and western Poland. If E-V13 was found among both groups, it would have needed to be either assimilated in the Pontic Steppe or very near from it (say, in the Cucuteni-Trypillian culture, around western Ukraine, Moldova and Romania), or at the junction between the two groups in central Europe (e.g. around the Czech Republic)." (Source: Eupedia)

"The distribution and age of E-V13 clades in central and western Europe are consistent with a dispersal by Hallstatt and La Tène Celts, Italic tribes (including a Roman redistribution) and the later influx of Germanic tribes, particularly the Goths, who may have assimilated additional Proto-Slavic E-V13 lineages in East Germany, Poland and Ukraine before entering the Roman Empire. (=> see also the discussions Was E-V13 a major lineage of Hallstatt Celts and Italics? and Ancient East, West and North Germanics had different Y-DNA lineages)." (Source: Eupedia)

"The eastern advance of the Corded Ware culture eventually gave rise to the Sintashta culture in the Ural region, which is the ancestral culture of the Indo-Iranian branch of Indo-Europeans. E-V13's presence in this culture would explain why modern Iranians and Kurds possess E-V13, in addition to R1a-Z93 and R1b-Z2103. E-V13 has been found as far away as central Siberia, near the Altai, a region also known to have been settled by Bronze Age Indo-Europeans." (Source: Eupedia)

"An Indo-European dispersal of V13 subclades would not only explain why E-V13 is present in places like Finland, northwest Russia or Siberia, where Neolithic farmers had a negligible impact, but also why E-V13 is so conspicuously lacking from the Basque country and (central) Sardinia, the two regions of Europe with the highest Neolithic ancestry. Sardinia is also the only part of Europe where Bronze Age Steppe ancestry is virtually absent. The low percentage of E-V13 is coastal Sardinia would be better explained by more recent settlements on the island by the Romans, or even the Goths, who also settled in Sardinia." (Source: Eupedia)

"The small presence of E-V13 in the Near East could be better explained by the extremely long Greek presence in the eastern Mediterranean from the time of Alexander the Great until the end of the Byzantine domination over the region during the Middle Ages. " (Source: Eupedia)

"The absence of E-V13 from Central Anatolia does not concord with a diffusion linked to Neolithic agriculture. There is clearly a radiation from the Greece (where E-V13 makes up approximately 30% of the paternal lineages) to the East Mediterranean (where the frequency drops to under 5%)." (Source: Eupedia)

So by now you are probably thinking: okay sure this tells us how E-V13 migrated within Europe and it pretty much discredits the idea that they were the main neolithic farmer expansion. Indeed, but they could be a later arrival of farmers, after the main neolithic expansion and before the Indo-European expansion. Obviously we can agree that is the time span where they would have migrated into Europe but we don't know if they were farmers or goat herders. In my opinion they were most likely herders because of how easily they were assimilated into PIE but that's just my guess based on the readings I've done and I haven't seen it supported or discredited anywhere. So let's investigate what happened before their arrival into Europe.

"E-V13 came to Europe from Western Asia and diffused from the Balkans into Europe: "As to a western Asia-Europe connection, our data suggest that western Asians carrying E-V13 may have reached the Balkans anytime after 17.0 ky ago, but expanded into Europe not earlier than 5.3 ky ago." This sub-haplogroup makes the majority of European E-M78 (and indeed all E) Y chromosomes." (source: Molecular dissection of the Y chromosome haplogroup E-M78 (E3b1a): a posteriori evaluation of a microsatellite-network-based approach through six new biallelic markers. Cruciani F, La Fratta R, Torroni A, Underhill PA, Scozzari R.)

"Haplogroup E would appear to have arisen in Northeast Africa based on the concentration and variety of E subclades in that area today. But the fact that Haplogroup E is closely linked with Haplogroup D, which is not found in Africa, leaves open the possibility that E first arose in the Near or Middle East and was subsequently carried into Africa by a back migration [ http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpE08.html Y-DNA Haplogroup E and its Subclades - 2008 ] . Indeed, geneticist Stephen Oppenheimer theorizes that early humans first (successfully) left Africa across the mouth of the Red Sea, between Ethiopia and Yemen [ http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/stephenoppenheimer/ ] . This further suggests that, if haplogroup DE first crossed over to Yemen, D carried on to southeast Asia, while E stayed back in, or near, Arabia"

So all in all, we can agree that E-V13 has the most recent ancestor from North-East Africa/ South Levant than any of the other European Y-DNA haplogroups. That doesn't mean that it is any less European since all of the haplogroups originated from the Fertile crescent and those areas but even earlier came out of Africa. E-V13 parent was just in the general fertile crescent area longer rather than go around the black sea and into Europe like other haplogroups. E-V13 was neither African nor non white. It is Wholly European based on presence/evolution in Europe and skin colour.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b7/Archaeogenetic_analysis_of_human_skin_pigmentation _in_Europe.jpg/1920px-Archaeogenetic_analysis_of_human_skin_pigmentation _in_Europe.jpg

Hopefully the following maps will also help you consolidate all of the information I just gave you:

https://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/timeline_comparison.png

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fstryder.com%2Fstaid%2Fmigration_of _anatomically_modern_humans_bldg_blog_2008.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Faleximreh.files.wordpress.com%2F2 016%2F01%2Fhg-e.gif&f=1&nofb=1

So yea I hope that helps you understand a little bit more about the origins of E-V13 and some of the unknowns about it. Hopefully you won't make misleading, mean-spirited, or ignorant remarks about "E-V13 is AfRiCaN" like many pseudointelectuals on forums like to do :)

[Dorian]

It's unknown what their deep origins are but they aren't vlachs , this was added on wiki by some romanian.There's two tribes with the same name ,one is from central-west Greece which are Arvanites+Vlachs and those on Thessaly ,different people.

The pics are from Karagounian villagers , those in cities will be mixed to some extent.

Btw by green eyes I also meant hazel ,didn't know of the term back then.

[xripkan]

snip
Do you know your exact clade under E-V13? I am interested in learning more about the genetics of Sarakatsani, Vlach and Karagkounides. Do you have any autosomal results? Could you post your Gedmatch?

[Vlach-Karag-Sarakats]

Do you know your exact clade under E-V13? I am interested in learning more about the genetics of Sarakatsani, Vlach and Karagkounides. Do you have any autosomal results? Could you post your Gedmatch?

I dont have GEDmatch. From what I saw they dont have enough reference populations and also I didn't feel safe after the last incident lol. I think 23andMe is the most accurate for the balkans tbh because it highlights the exact regions where the Vlachs, karagkounides and sarakatsani have traditionally migrated within for the past thousand years since at least 11th century. I also provide my myFTDNA results. I also dont have complete YDNA results but I think I will be getting a test done in the future when prices are more reasonable haha. To give context I know the villages of all my great grandparents and some great grandparents. My great grandma spoke vlach and taught me some. My highest percent (50%) is karagkounis and 25% of the other two. But I identify with my vlach side quite a bit because of patrilineal inheritance.

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[Hapanuwa]

Karagoun(ides) = Karagün?

[xripkan]

I dont have GEDmatch. From what I saw they dont have enough reference populations and also I didn't feel safe after the last incident lol. I think 23andMe is the most accurate for the balkans tbh because it highlights the exact regions where the Vlachs, karagkounides and sarakatsani have traditionally migrated within for the past thousand years since at least 11th century. I also provide my myFTDNA results. I also dont have complete YDNA results but I think I will be getting a test done in the future when prices are more reasonable haha. To give context I know the villages of all my great grandparents and some great grandparents. My great grandma spoke vlach and taught me some. My highest percent (50%) is karagkounis and 25% of the other two. But I identify with my vlach side quite a bit because of patrilineal inheritance.

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Interesting results! You have Eastern Balkans as possible matches and you score almost no West Asia. This is actually what I expected.
If you don't like gedmatch another option is to buy G25 coordinates.

[Dorian]

I dont have GEDmatch. From what I saw they dont have enough reference populations and also I didn't feel safe after the last incident lol. I think 23andMe is the most accurate for the balkans tbh because it highlights the exact regions where the Vlachs, karagkounides and sarakatsani have traditionally migrated within for the past thousand years since at least 11th century. I also provide my myFTDNA results. I also dont have complete YDNA results but I think I will be getting a test done in the future when prices are more reasonable haha. To give context I know the villages of all my great grandparents and some great grandparents. My great grandma spoke vlach and taught me some. My highest percent (50%) is karagkounis and 25% of the other two. But I identify with my vlach side quite a bit because of patrilineal inheritance.

You can try this https://cladefinder.yseq.net
As for gedmatch , If you don't want your info there you could post the rawdata to one of us to upload it..unless you dont want that either ,understandable.

[Jana]

SE European looking.

[Vlach-Karag-Sarakats]

Interesting results! You have Eastern Balkans as possible matches and you score almost no West Asia. This is actually what I expected.
If you don't like gedmatch another option is to buy G25 coordinates.


You can try this https://cladefinder.yseq.net
As for gedmatch , If you don't want your info there you could post the rawdata to one of us to upload it..unless you dont want that either ,understandable.

So I caved since G25 seemed even MORE sketch haha, is there a free way to use the G25 or a paid way where I don't have to send my data over email? I wasn't down to just email the guy my results over gmail lol. And like you said Dorian you understand why! But anyway the yseq cladefinder just told me E-V13 but it is col that I could do an E-V13 subclade test in the future for $88 that seems cool. I also did the Gedmatch and will delete my data off of it in a week or so to reduce my risk. what exactly do I show you from the Eurogenes?

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1 Greek_Thessaly @ 6.418084 from Eurogenes K13

[xripkan]

So I caved since G25 seemed even MORE sketch haha, is there a free way to use the G25 or a paid way where I don't have to send my data over email? I wasn't down to just email the guy my results over gmail lol. And like you said Dorian you understand why! But anyway the yseq cladefinder just told me E-V13 but it is col that I could do an E-V13 subclade test in the future for $88 that seems cool. I also did the Gedmatch and will delete my data off of it in a week or so to reduce my risk. what exactly do I show you from the Eurogenes?

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1 Greek_Thessaly @ 6.418084 from Eurogenes K13

Perfect! Could you post the whole population oracle and the mixed mode one (with 2 populations)? I would like to see your proximity to Balkans and Italy to understand your results.

[Vlach-Karag-Sarakats]

Do I press Oracle or Oracle-4 ?

[xripkan]

oracle

[Vlach-Karag-Sarakats]

oracle

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Well this is interesting!

Edit: I don't think I am actually jewish :P Can you help me interpret this in any other way?

[Coolguy1]

Do you mind posting your values for dodecad k12b? It is a test on gedmatch

[Vlach-Karag-Sarakats]

Do you mind posting your values for dodecad k12b? It is a test on gedmatch

I don't mind. Do you want to see the Oracle results like the other ones I shared or something more specific?

[xripkan]

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Well this is interesting!

Interesting indeed!It seems you are closer to Southern Mainlanders. I expected you are more Northern shifted. Quite similar to my results.

[Coolguy1]

I don't mind. Do you want to see the Oracle results like the other ones I shared or something more specific?

Could you post your values? For example, you atlantic_med, north european scores and etc?

[Mingle]

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Well this is interesting!

Edit: I don't think I am actually jewish :P Can you help me interpret this in any other way?
Could you post your Eurogenes K13 individual components? Like the admixture part where it shows your percentages for Baltic, North Atlantic, East Med, etc.

[Vlach-Karag-Sarakats]

Interesting indeed!It seems you are closer to Southern Mainlanders. I expected you are more Northern shifted. Quite similar to my results.

So why did it show Ashkenazi?


Could you post your values? For example, you atlantic_med, north european scores and etc?


Could you post your Eurogenes K13 individual components? Like the admixture part where it shows your percentages for Baltic, North Atlantic, East Med, etc.

Ok help me interpret:

Eurogenes K13 Oracle
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Dodecad K12b Oracle
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[xripkan]

So why did it show Ashkenazi?





Ok help me interpret:

Eurogenes K13 Oracle
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Dodecad K12b Oracle
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You are a typical mainlander. Ashkenazi is very close to Greeks Islanders and Southern Italians. Cretans are very close to them genetically.
It just means that you are modeled as Greek Islander/Southern Italian + Slavo-Balkan like every Mainlander. If I had to guess I would say you are from Central Greece, (Sterea Ellada or Thessaly).

[Mingle]

Your full K13 oracle:

https://i.imgur.com/2Xedjsc.png

[Vlach-Karag-Sarakats]

You are a typical mainlander. Ashkenazi is very close to Greeks Islanders and Southern Italians. Cretans are very close to them genetically.
It just means that you are modeled as Greek Islander/Southern Italian + Slavo-Balkan like every Mainlander. If I had to guess I would say you are from Central Greece, (Sterea Ellada or Thessaly).

Bravo, I am! Why does it show West_asian tho? I am like 100% sure there is no turk in us because our villages are in the mountains. Also where can I read more about each of those markers like North atlantic etc. ? And what is your opinion on the new 23andMe update? Do you think it is more accurate than Eurogenes and Dodecad? Do you think it is worth getting (the sketchy ;) ) G25?

[Vlach-Karag-Sarakats]

Your full K13 oracle:

https://i.imgur.com/2Xedjsc.png

That's so cool, how do you get that? also can you chime in to the following: I am like 100% sure there is no turk in us because our villages are in the mountains. Also where can I read more about each of those markers like North atlantic etc. ? And what is your opinion on the new 23andMe update? Do you think it is more accurate than Eurogenes and Dodecad? Do you think it is worth getting (the sketchy ) G25?

[xripkan]

Bravo, I am! Why does it show West_asian tho? I am like 100% sure there is no turk in us because our villages are in the mountains. Also where can I read more about each of those markers like North atlantic etc. ? And what is your opinion on the new 23andMe update? Do you think it is more accurate than Eurogenes and Dodecad? Do you think it is worth getting (the sketchy ;) ) G25?

West Asian has to do with ancient Anatolian peoples. Turks genes are related to East Asian, Siberian etc. Actually you have low West Asian which makes sense in your case. I have noticed that people from Thessaly, Macedonia, Thrace (not those of Anatolian ancestry) score low West Asian. Islanders and especially Dodecanesians score a lot of it.
The Turkish references you see at the oracle is because Turkish groups from Greece and Balkans are close to the natives. You don't have Turkish ancestry.

[xripkan]

Bravo, I am! Why does it show West_asian tho? I am like 100% sure there is no turk in us because our villages are in the mountains. Also where can I read more about each of those markers like North atlantic etc. ? And what is your opinion on the new 23andMe update? Do you think it is more accurate than Eurogenes and Dodecad? Do you think it is worth getting (the sketchy ;) ) G25?

About 23andme I think it is a very good update for some categories including us (Greek Mainlanders). Finally we don't score any South Italian which is just genetic similarity and not real ancestry.
In my opinion it definitely worths getting G25. My only objection about your Gedmatch and G25 results is that you used 23andme raw data which are not considered the best. I think raw data from another company would be better.
But to be honest I used V5 and V3 raw data recently just to check it and the difference was not so big in my case. You definitely get the general idea.

[xripkan]

That's so cool, how do you get that? also can you chime in to the following: I am like 100% sure there is no turk in us because our villages are in the mountains. Also where can I read more about each of those markers like North atlantic etc. ? And what is your opinion on the new 23andMe update? Do you think it is more accurate than Eurogenes and Dodecad? Do you think it is worth getting (the sketchy ) G25?

The oracle Mingle used is the updated oracle of Eurogenes K13. The most interesting here is that you scoer Greek Eastern Thrace reference as closest population.
I am 3/4 Peloponnesian and 1/4 from Western Thessaly (karagkouni ancestry)and I am modelled at this oracle as 3/4 Peloponnesian +1/4 Eastern Thrace!

[Mingle]

That's so cool, how do you get that? also can you chime in to the following: I am like 100% sure there is no turk in us because our villages are in the mountains. Also where can I read more about each of those markers like North atlantic etc. ? And what is your opinion on the new 23andMe update? Do you think it is more accurate than Eurogenes and Dodecad? Do you think it is worth getting (the sketchy ) G25?

I did that with this link: http://vahaduo.genetics.ovh/k13-vahaduo.htm

You don't have any Turkish. The Turks that show up in that list are genetically close to you due to shared Balkan ancestry.

North Atlantic, etc. are proxies for ancient components. I'll list the relevant ones below and which populations they peak in to give you an idea:

North Atlantic - Scottish
Baltic - Latvians
West Med - Sardinians
West Asian - Georgians
East Med - Lebanese
Red Sea - Saudis

I think the update is good.

[Vlach-Karag-Sarakats]

West Asian has to do with ancient Anatolian peoples. Turks genes are related to East Asian, Siberian etc. Actually you have low West Asian which makes sense in your case. I have noticed that people from Thessaly, Macedonia, Thrace (not those of Anatolian ancestry) score low West Asian. Islanders and especially Dodecanesians score a lot of it.
The Turkish references you see at the oracle is because Turkish groups from Greece and Balkans are close to the natives. You don't have Turkish ancestry.

What a relief! ;)


About 23andme I think it is a very good update for some categories including us (Greek Mainlanders). Finally we don't score any South Italian which is just genetic similarity and not real ancestry.
In my opinion it definitely worths getting G25. My only objection about your Gedmatch and G25 results is that you used 23andme raw data which are not considered the best. I think raw data from another company would be better.
But to be honest I used V5 and V3 raw data recently just to check it and the difference was not so big in my case. You definitely get the general idea.

Good to know! Thanks for your help in interpreting bro. What more would I learn from G25?

[xripkan]

What a relief! ;)



Good to know! Thanks for your help in interpreting bro. What more would I learn from G25?

You would see how close you are to ancient samples ( there is a very big dataset with samples from Neolithic era until Middle-Ages) and you will be able to model yourshelf with them.
There is also a dataset with modern populations but it will not be updated anymore. Davidski wants to focus on ancient DNA.

[Vlach-Karag-Sarakats]

I did that with this link: http://vahaduo.genetics.ovh/k13-vahaduo.htm

You don't have any Turkish. The Turks that show up in that list are genetically close to you due to shared Balkan ancestry.

North Atlantic, etc. are proxies for ancient components. I'll list the relevant ones below and which populations they peak in to give you an idea:

North Atlantic - Scottish
Baltic - Latvians
West Med - Sardinians
West Asian - Georgians
East Med - Lebanese
Red Sea - Saudis

I think the update is good.

That's awesome thank you for all of your help! Where can I play around with the updated Eurogenes? What time period would my ancestors have been in the East Med and West Asia approximately?

Edit: Nvm I see you included link.

[Vlach-Karag-Sarakats]

I did that with this link: http://vahaduo.genetics.ovh/k13-vahaduo.htm

You don't have any Turkish. The Turks that show up in that list are genetically close to you due to shared Balkan ancestry.

North Atlantic, etc. are proxies for ancient components. I'll list the relevant ones below and which populations they peak in to give you an idea:

North Atlantic - Scottish
Baltic - Latvians
West Med - Sardinians
West Asian - Georgians
East Med - Lebanese
Red Sea - Saudis

I think the update is good.


The oracle Mingle used is the updated oracle of Eurogenes K13. The most interesting here is that you scoer Greek Eastern Thrace reference as closest population.
I am 3/4 Peloponnesian and 1/4 from Western Thessaly (karagkouni ancestry)and I am modelled at this oracle as 3/4 Peloponnesian +1/4 Eastern Thrace!

So fellas why is it showing me these muslim populations?

103167

[xripkan]

So fellas why is it showing me these muslim populations?

103167

Use the add dist col to 0.25x or 0.5x

[Tauromachos]

You are a typical mainlander. Ashkenazi is very close to Greeks Islanders and Southern Italians. Cretans are very close to them genetically.
It just means that you are modeled as Greek Islander/Southern Italian + Slavo-Balkan like every Mainlander.

Slavo-Balkan is wrong though

The more Slavic other Balkanians are the less similar they are to Mainland Greeks.

Some Mainland Greeks have significant Slav admix but only some not every Mainland Greek does

[Vlach-Karag-Sarakats]

Use the add dist col to 0.25x or 0.5x


I did that with this link: http://vahaduo.genetics.ovh/k13-vahaduo.htm

You don't have any Turkish. The Turks that show up in that list are genetically close to you due to shared Balkan ancestry.

I think the update is good.

So I took the time to analyze my results using GEDmatch and vahaduo. I tried everything available on Gedmatch that was analyzable on vahaduo and included the top 5 here. after these five most jumped to relatively larger distances like @5+ From these that were very low distance to me I'm not sure if they are appropriate. If you can add any insight as to any patterns you see or if you can help me understand the results further please do:

1. Best (Combination of lowest distances and closest source population): Dodecad k7b

Distance: 0.6063% / 0.60630026 | ADC: 0.25x
70.0 Greek
26.0 Bulgarian
4.0 Lezgins

Population

South_Asian -
West_Asian 25.83 Pct
Siberian 0.53 Pct
African 0.13 Pct
Southern 29.79 Pct
Atlantic_Baltic 43.72 Pct
East_Asian -

2. Dodecad World 9

Distance: 0.7964% / 0.79643442 | ADC: 0.25x
40.2 Greek
35.2 O_Italian
21.6 Bulgarian
3.0 Lezgins

Population
Amerindian 0.20 Pct
East_Asian -
African 0.06 Pct
Atlantic_Baltic 44.49 Pct
Australasian -
Siberian 0.43 Pct
Caucasus_Gedrosia 24.69 Pct
Southern 30.08 Pct
South_Asian -

3. Dodecad k12b Updated - This one at least matches the 23andMe sort of, compared to eurogenes.

Distance: 2.0336% / 2.03357393 | ADC: 0.5x
48.8 Bulgarian_Thrace
35.0 Greek_Peloponnese
13.8 Greek_Thessaloniki
2.4 Yemen_Jews

Population
Gedrosia 5.80 Pct
Siberian 0.57 Pct
Northwest_African 1.29 Pct
Southeast_Asian -
Atlantic_Med 24.39 Pct
North_European 25.07 Pct
South_Asian -
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 11.51 Pct
East_Asian -
Caucasus 31.37 Pct
Sub_Saharan -

4. MDLP K16

Distance: 2.2080% / 2.20799984 | ADC: 0.5x
49.2 Greek_Thessaly
28.4 Italian_Piedmont
15.0 Tuscan
6.0 Kosovar
1.4 Greek_Laconia

Population
Amerindian -
Ancestor 0.22 Pct
Steppe 14.36 Pct
Indian -
Arctic -
Australian -
Caucasian 34.15 Pct
EastAfrican -
NorthEastEuropean 14.55 Pct
NearEast 5.14 Pct
Neolithic 30.76 Pct
NorthAfrican 0.36 Pct
Oceanic -
Siberian 0.45 Pct
SouthEastAsian -
Subsaharian -

5. MDLP k23b Updated

Distance: 2.5750% / 2.57498553 | ADC: 0.5x
43.6 Greek_Peloponnesos
33.8 Greek_Thessaloniki
20.8 Greek_Macedonia
1.8 Udmurd

Population
Amerindian 0.92 Pct
Ancestral_Altaic 3.84 Pct
South_Central_Asian 2.92 Pct
Arctic -
South_Indian -
Australoid 0.07 Pct
Austronesian -
Caucasian 38.72 Pct
Archaic_Human -
East_African -
East_Siberian 0.06 Pct
European_Early_Farmers 20.85 Pct
Khoisan 0.53 Pct
Melano_Polynesian -
Archaic_African -
Near_East 7.98 Pct
North_African 3.91 Pct
Paleo_Siberian -
African_Pygmy -
South_East_Asian -
Subsaharian -
Tungus-Altaic -
European_Hunters_Gatherers 20.21 Pct

Honorable Mentions

Eurogenes K13 Updated - I didn't find this representative just because I don't know anyone from eastern Thrace. My matrilineal heritage is from Peloponisos/Thessaly and my dads from Western Macedonia/Pindus/Thessaly

Distance: 4.0146% / 4.01462181 | ADC: 1x
94.6 Greek_Eastern-Thrace
5.4 Ashkenazi

Distance: 2.9932% / 2.99322263 | ADC: 0.5x
52.6 Greek_Eastern-Thrace
25.0 Turk_Thessaloniki
22.0 Ashkenazi
0.4 Pomak_Xanthi

Population
North_Atlantic 17.43 Pct
Baltic 17.59 Pct
West_Med 18.90 Pct
West_Asian 11.57 Pct
East_Med 30.92 Pct
Red_Sea 2.72 Pct
South_Asian -
East_Asian 0.13 Pct
Siberian 0.15 Pct
Amerindian 0.59 Pct
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -


K7b Ancient - This was fun to see

Distance: 1.0084% / 1.00841709 | ADC: 0.25x
79.8 C6_Medieval_Mediterranean
13.0 C6_Imperial_Mediterranean
5.0 Vucedol
2.2 Yamnaya

[Tauromachos]

So you score predominantly Greek^

Congrats mate!

[Tauromachos]

yes by now they probably are, but there origin is vlah, now if vlah is ancient greek people or other paleobalkan thats up for debatte, by greek friends say that you can hear that they are Karagounides by there greek dialect, what do you say?

If you mean the Sarakatsans they don't speak Vlach but a Greek dialect,its true

[Vlach-Karag-Sarakats]

So you score predominantly Greek^

Congrats mate!

Thanks bro, to be honest felt like it was bs because I can't really understand the populations etc, haha, but that is very good news!

[MandM]

If you mean the Sarakatsans they don't speak Vlach but a Greek dialect,its true

No no its vlah, my friend hade 2 or 3 vlah when he was in the army, and when the vlah spoke greek he started to luagh be ouse he tought they were making a funny dialect according to him, my friend he is from nort greece "macedonia"

[Tauromachos]

No no its vlah, my friend hade 2 or 3 vlah when he was in the army, and when the vlah spoke greek he started to luagh be ouse he tought they were making a funny dialect according to him, my friend he is from nort greece "macedonia"

Ok,yes there are Vlachs in Thessaly too

Thessaly has both Vlachs and Sarakatsans

[xripkan]

Slavo-Balkan is wrong though

The more Slavic other Balkanians are the less similar they are to Mainland Greeks.

Some Mainland Greeks have significant Slav admix but only some not every Mainland Greek does

I don't find it wrong. There is some Slavic admixture in most Mainland Greeks. I am definitely closer to Sicily and South Italy in every calculator but I have some East european-like ancestry. For me it is about 17-19%. For some pure Peloponnesians 10-15%. For Northern Greeks it can be 15% or 20% or even 25% in some cases.
The relevant research indicates that only Maniots from Deep Mani and Tsakonians from Southern Kynouria have no East European-like ancestry in Peloponnese.
When I say Slavo-Balkan I mean a combination of Slavic+Ancient Balaknic peoples. The best modern proxy for such kind of ancestry is Bulgaria. Most mainland Greeks are modelled as a combination of South Italy and Bulgaria.

[Dimitri159]

Pontids,Alpines typical mainlanders :thumb001:

I see more Dinarid than Alpine but yeah.

[Dimitri159]

I'm not sure what the point of your argument is and why you keep trying to make one when you are clearly misinformed on this. I honestly don't blame you because you probably aren't E-V13 and so haven't had the motivation to objectively look into this. Regardless here is the latest things we know:

https://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-E-V13.gif

Yes E-V13 didn't peak in areas where Neolithic farmers reached and in the far north where the I haplogroup and the Hunter Gatherers were. The reason why this map is a little misleading is because it uses current E-V13 distribution. The current distribution around the Balkans is less basal than the E-V13 found in Germany,Czech, Slovakia and Poland. This is why I say you are misinformed, according to Eupedia and the most recent anthropological studies:

"The oldest clades of E-V13 are most common around Germany, the Czech Republic, Slovakia and Poland. I believe that E-V13 could have been a lineage of the Cucuteni-Trypillian people, which was assimilated by Yamna people just before their expansion westward. This would also have been the case of some G2a lineages (Z1816, L13 and L1264 subclades). Some of these lineages (both G2a and E-V13) remained in the Steppe and were taken east by the Proto-Indo-Iranians and to Greece by the Proto-Mycenaeans. Thousands of years of Steppe migrations would have brought more E-V13 from the Steppe to the Balkans." (Source: Eupedia)

"For many years the vast majority of academics have assumed that E-V13 and other E1b1b lineages came to the Balkans from the southern Levant via Anatolia during the Neolithic, and that the high frequency of E-V13 was caused by a founder effect among the colonisers. This theory has it that E1b1b people were associated with the development of Neolithic lifestyle and the advent of agriculture in the Fertile Crescent and its earliest diffusion to Southeast Europe (Thessalian Neolithic) and Mediterranean Europe (Cardium Pottery culture). The testing of ancient DNA from the Natufian culture (Mesolithic Levant) and Pre-Pottery Neolithic Levant confirmed a high incidence of haplogroup E1b1b in that region. However, out of 69 Y-DNA samples tested from Neolithic Europe, only two belonged to that haplogroup: one E-M78 from the Sopot culture in Hungary (5000-4800 BCE), another E-M78 (c. 5000 BCE), possibly E-V13, from north-east Spain, and a E-L618 from Zemunica cave near Split in Croatia from 5500 BCE (Fernandes et al., 2016). Whether these E-M78 samples came with Neolithic farmers from the Near East or were already present among Mesolithic Europeans is unclear at present. But in any case E-V13 was definitely not the major Neolithic European lineage it was once alleged to be." (Source: Eupedia)

"Nowadays E-V13 is the only Mediterranean haplogroup consistently found throughout Europe, even in Norway, Sweden, Finland and Baltic countries, which are conspicuous by the absence of other Neolithic haplogroups like G2a (bar the Indo-European G2a-Z1815), J1 and T (except in Estonia). However, since G2a is the only lineage that was consistently found in all Neolithic sites tested to date in Europe, the absence of Neolithic G2a lineages from Scandinavia and the Baltic implies that no Neolithic lineage survives there, and consequently E-V13 does not date from the Neolithic in the region." (Source: Eupedia)

"This data suggests that the fate of E-V13 was linked to the elite dominance of Bronze Age society. The geographic distribution of the six main branches show that E-V13 quickly spread to all parts of Europe, but was especially common in Central Europe. The only Bronze Age migration that could account for such a fast and far-reaching dispersal is that of the Proto-Indo-Europeans. At present the most consistent explanation is that E-V13 developed from E-M78 in Central or Eastern Europe during the Neolithic period, and was assimilated by the R1a and R1b Proto-Indo-Europeans around the time that they were leaving the Pontic Steppe to invade the rest of Europe." (Source: Eupedia)

"What is surprising with E-V13 is that it is as common in R1a-dominant as in R1b-dominant countries. R1a Indo-European tribes are associated with the Corded Ware culture, which spanned across Northeast Europe, Scandinavia and the northern half of Central Europe. R1b tribes invaded the Balkans, the southern half of Central Europe, and joined up with Corded Ware people in what is now Germany, the Czech Republic and western Poland. If E-V13 was found among both groups, it would have needed to be either assimilated in the Pontic Steppe or very near from it (say, in the Cucuteni-Trypillian culture, around western Ukraine, Moldova and Romania), or at the junction between the two groups in central Europe (e.g. around the Czech Republic)." (Source: Eupedia)

"The distribution and age of E-V13 clades in central and western Europe are consistent with a dispersal by Hallstatt and La Tène Celts, Italic tribes (including a Roman redistribution) and the later influx of Germanic tribes, particularly the Goths, who may have assimilated additional Proto-Slavic E-V13 lineages in East Germany, Poland and Ukraine before entering the Roman Empire. (=> see also the discussions Was E-V13 a major lineage of Hallstatt Celts and Italics? and Ancient East, West and North Germanics had different Y-DNA lineages)." (Source: Eupedia)

"The eastern advance of the Corded Ware culture eventually gave rise to the Sintashta culture in the Ural region, which is the ancestral culture of the Indo-Iranian branch of Indo-Europeans. E-V13's presence in this culture would explain why modern Iranians and Kurds possess E-V13, in addition to R1a-Z93 and R1b-Z2103. E-V13 has been found as far away as central Siberia, near the Altai, a region also known to have been settled by Bronze Age Indo-Europeans." (Source: Eupedia)

"An Indo-European dispersal of V13 subclades would not only explain why E-V13 is present in places like Finland, northwest Russia or Siberia, where Neolithic farmers had a negligible impact, but also why E-V13 is so conspicuously lacking from the Basque country and (central) Sardinia, the two regions of Europe with the highest Neolithic ancestry. Sardinia is also the only part of Europe where Bronze Age Steppe ancestry is virtually absent. The low percentage of E-V13 is coastal Sardinia would be better explained by more recent settlements on the island by the Romans, or even the Goths, who also settled in Sardinia." (Source: Eupedia)

"The small presence of E-V13 in the Near East could be better explained by the extremely long Greek presence in the eastern Mediterranean from the time of Alexander the Great until the end of the Byzantine domination over the region during the Middle Ages. " (Source: Eupedia)

"The absence of E-V13 from Central Anatolia does not concord with a diffusion linked to Neolithic agriculture. There is clearly a radiation from the Greece (where E-V13 makes up approximately 30% of the paternal lineages) to the East Mediterranean (where the frequency drops to under 5%)." (Source: Eupedia)

So by now you are probably thinking: okay sure this tells us how E-V13 migrated within Europe and it pretty much discredits the idea that they were the main neolithic farmer expansion. Indeed, but they could be a later arrival of farmers, after the main neolithic expansion and before the Indo-European expansion. Obviously we can agree that is the time span where they would have migrated into Europe but we don't know if they were farmers or goat herders. In my opinion they were most likely herders because of how easily they were assimilated into PIE but that's just my guess based on the readings I've done and I haven't seen it supported or discredited anywhere. So let's investigate what happened before their arrival into Europe.

"E-V13 came to Europe from Western Asia and diffused from the Balkans into Europe: "As to a western Asia-Europe connection, our data suggest that western Asians carrying E-V13 may have reached the Balkans anytime after 17.0 ky ago, but expanded into Europe not earlier than 5.3 ky ago." This sub-haplogroup makes the majority of European E-M78 (and indeed all E) Y chromosomes." (source: Molecular dissection of the Y chromosome haplogroup E-M78 (E3b1a): a posteriori evaluation of a microsatellite-network-based approach through six new biallelic markers. Cruciani F, La Fratta R, Torroni A, Underhill PA, Scozzari R.)

"Haplogroup E would appear to have arisen in Northeast Africa based on the concentration and variety of E subclades in that area today. But the fact that Haplogroup E is closely linked with Haplogroup D, which is not found in Africa, leaves open the possibility that E first arose in the Near or Middle East and was subsequently carried into Africa by a back migration [ http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpE08.html Y-DNA Haplogroup E and its Subclades - 2008 ] . Indeed, geneticist Stephen Oppenheimer theorizes that early humans first (successfully) left Africa across the mouth of the Red Sea, between Ethiopia and Yemen [ http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/stephenoppenheimer/ ] . This further suggests that, if haplogroup DE first crossed over to Yemen, D carried on to southeast Asia, while E stayed back in, or near, Arabia"

So all in all, we can agree that E-V13 has the most recent ancestor from North-East Africa/ South Levant than any of the other European Y-DNA haplogroups. That doesn't mean that it is any less European since all of the haplogroups originated from the Fertile crescent and those areas but even earlier came out of Africa. E-V13 parent was just in the general fertile crescent area longer rather than go around the black sea and into Europe like other haplogroups. E-V13 was neither African nor non white. It is Wholly European based on presence/evolution in Europe and skin colour.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b7/Archaeogenetic_analysis_of_human_skin_pigmentation _in_Europe.jpg/1920px-Archaeogenetic_analysis_of_human_skin_pigmentation _in_Europe.jpg

Hopefully the following maps will also help you consolidate all of the information I just gave you:

https://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/timeline_comparison.png

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fstryder.com%2Fstaid%2Fmigration_of _anatomically_modern_humans_bldg_blog_2008.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Faleximreh.files.wordpress.com%2F2 016%2F01%2Fhg-e.gif&f=1&nofb=1

So yea I hope that helps you understand a little bit more about the origins of E-V13 and some of the unknowns about it. Hopefully you won't make misleading, mean-spirited, or ignorant remarks about "E-V13 is AfRiCaN" like many pseudointelectuals on forums like to do :)

The origins of E-V13 are not African nor European, but Near Eastern (Levant specifically). It just so happens that it slowly started to diminish in favor of J1 & J2 while simultaneously increasing in N.Africa and S.Europe due to neolithic migration patterns as well as ancient and more modern migration patterns too.

LOL don’t worry, E-V13 is a Caucasoid type not African.

[Dimitri159]

They look similar to Bulgarian/Romanian, more so than to either Italian, Albanian, or Spanish. There is also a near absence of West Asian phenotypes.

Greeks look a lot closer to Italians than Albanians do. If anything Albanians look closer to Romanians and Bulgarians than what Greeks do.
Dinarid, Alpine and Med types are common in Italy too, not only Mediterranean types.



The looks I see are mostly Dinarid, Alpine, and Pontid.

Pontid is not the only Mediterranean type common throughout Greece. Even these Thessalian examples show some East Meds, Gracile Meds, etc.