Classify some Greeks

[nightrider+]

Pontics (first man Constantinople Greek) : https://imgur.com/a/snNdN7Q , https://imgur.com/a/sWwBAlw


For comparison, from the same team, these are afaik mainlanders. The first one has Central Greek origins (Evrytania), the rest are Northeners.

https://imgur.com/a/vfg16yl


Ok, I'm bored and this is sort of interesting. Aris late 70s team, mostly Northerners and more NW tending. First one is Cypriot.

https://imgur.com/a/mYNFUUF

[Kivan]

1 - East-Med.
2 - Dinarid.
3 - Taurid.
4 - Armenoid.
5 - Taurid + CM.
6 - East-Med + Alpine.
7 - Anadolid.

[kleenex]

1) Pontid/Dinaro Mix (looks a bit like Joe Namath)
2) Dinaric
3) Pontid Med
4) Armenoid (really doesn't look Greek to me).
5) Atlanto Med (Cro mag)
6) Alpine Med
7) Not sure but his eyes are Aralid like.

[Acubens]

Med
Dinaric
Taurid
Armenid
Pontid + CM
Alpine-Med
Anatolid

Good representation of Greek phenotypes. Includes all variations of modern Greece.

[nightrider+]

Good representation of Greek phenotypes. Includes all variations of modern Greece.

Afaik, the first one is Constantinople Greek, all the others are Pontic Greeks (fully).

[Sikeliot]

1 - East-Med.
2 - Dinarid.
3 - Taurid.
4 - Armenoid.
5 - Taurid + CM.
6 - East-Med + Alpine.
7 - Anadolid.


I agree with this. If they are Pontic, it makes sense why the Armenoid is showing up.

[nightrider+]

I agree with this. If they are Pontic, it makes sense why the Armenoid is showing up.Lol, I shouldn't have revealed it so early. Pretty sure your opinion would be radically different.

[Sikeliot]

Good representation of Greek phenotypes. Includes all variations of modern Greece.

Absolutely not "all variations" of Greeks unless you think Greeks look Armenian. Also, these people are Pontic which means they're genetically Hellenized West Asians, not even from Greece.

[nightrider+]

Absolutely not "all variations" of Greeks unless you think Greeks look Armenian. Also, these people are Pontic which means they're genetically Hellenized West Asians, not even from Greece.The only exotic ones for non-Pontic standards are 2,4,7.

[Sikeliot]

The only exotic ones for non-Pontic standards are 2,4,7.

2 looks Georgian or Chechen, 4 looks Armenian, and 7 looks almost East Asian.

[Catarinense1998]

The second is a great dinarid example; fourth is clearly Armenoid.

[KingOf]

2 looks Georgian or Chechen, 4 looks Armenian, and 7 looks almost East Asian.

East Asian? what kind lol

[Sikeliot]

East Asian? what kind lol

It's in the eyes.

[nightrider+]

It's in the eyes.

He looks like sort of a castizo but if you mean fully East Asian, I don't know what to say.

Added one I've forgotten btw, also Pontic.

They are all members of the 70s PAOK team that won the league.

[KingOf]

It's in the eyes.

not even close dude... if you see some more photos of him you will understand you wrong
doens't even look as Asiatic in eyes as most Turks... and he looks to you even more Asiatic than a Central Asian lol

[Kivan]

not even close dude... if you see some more photos of him you will understand you wrong
doens't even look as Asiatic in eyes as most Turks... and he looks to you even more Asiatic than a Central Asian lol

That eyes are a West-Asian trait, not East-Asian(and most Turks don't have EE eyes, as you imply). Many people in Caucasus(and also in Turkey) can have similar eyes, not strange since he is a Pontic Greek.

[KingOf]

That eyes are a West-Asian trait, not East-Asian(and most Turks don't have EE eyes, as you imply). Many people in Caucasus(and also in Turkey) can have similar eyes, not strange since he is a Pontic Greek.

i didn't mean to say most Turks have EE eyes... but that his eyes look less Asiatic than those of Mongoloid looking Turks

[Livin]

Ο Άγγελος ειναι διναρικουρας του κερατά οι άλλοι κοιμαινονται απο αρμενοειδείς,ασιατικοί αλπικοί και κάποιοι έχουν και Pontid.

[Livin]

Δεν έβαλες τον Κούδα ο οποιος δεν ειναι σε καμμία περίπτωση αρμενοειδής και είναι Μικρασιάτης νομιζω.

[Kivan]

i didn't mean to say most Turks have EE eyes... but that his eyes look less Asiatic than those of Mongoloid looking Turks

I meant EA(mongoloid, East-Asian). Slanted eyes =/= mongoloid eyes.
http://img.medscape.com/pi/features/slideshow-slide/foreign-body-sensation/fig12.jpg

The man in the photo looks similar to Işık Koşaner, in my opinion
https://www.haberler.com/trend/02/isik-kosaner_9030_186.jpg

[nightrider+]

For comparison, from the same team, these are afaik mainlanders. The first one has Central Greek origins (Evrytania), the rest are Northeners.

https://imgur.com/a/vfg16yl

[KingOf]

For comparison, from the same team, these are afaik mainlanders. The first one has Central Greek origins (Evrytania), the rest are Northeners.

https://imgur.com/a/vfg16yl

Sarafis and mainlander? That's a bit difficult :D
Definite roots from Asia Minor

[nightrider+]

Sarafis and mainlander? That's a bit difficult :D
Definite roots from Asia Minor

Why? Epanomi is an old village and the surname exists in many areas. Is he from Asia Minor too?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stefanos_Sarafis

I can't be sure they are all fully from mainland tbh. Pellios (no 3) could be part East Thrace (still technically mainland but you know what I mean).

[Aspar]

For comparison, from the same team, these are afaik mainlanders. The first one has Central Greek origins (Evrytania), the rest are Northeners.

https://imgur.com/a/vfg16yl

The first one gives some Antonio Cassano vibe, Dinaro-Med
-Noric
-Alpine-Med
-Dinaro-Pontid
-Noric

[KingOf]

Why? Epanomi is an old village and the surname exists in many areas. Is he from Asia Minor too?

https://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CE%A3%CF%84%CE%AD%CF%86%CE%B1%CE%BD%CE%BF%CF%82_% CE%A3%CE%B1%CF%81%CE%AC%CF%86%CE%B7%CF%82

I can't be sure they are all fully from mainland tbh. Pellios (no 3) could be part East Thrace (still technically mainland but you know what I mean).

Interesting example you gave but it is very likely this guy had roots from Asia Minor as well... the surname has Turkish origin and means a lot that it is common with Eastern endings only (Sarafidis,Sarafoglou) it even exists in Sarafakis (if you check only North Greece and NOT Crete...and these people are definitely from Thrace)
Sarafis doesn't sound 'right' for North Greece

[nightrider+]

Interesting example you gave but it is very likely this guy had roots from Asia Minor as well... the surname has Turkish origin and means a lot that it is common with Eastern endings only (Sarafidis,Sarafoglou) it even exists in Sarafakis (if you check only North Greece and NOT Crete...and these people are definitely from Thrace)
Sarafis doesn't sound 'right' for North Greece

I don't think there were Anatolians in Trikala in 1890... There are countless surnames all over Greece based on Turkish words. What you claim (about Stavros) is possible, but the fact that he's the most NE Euro looking of the bunch makes it a bit more unlikely I think.


The first one gives some Antonio Cassano vibe, Dinaro-Med
-Noric
-Alpine-Med
-Dinaro-Pontid
-Noric

Gounaris (no 5) doesn't look that dinaricized. More like some Med-Nordic intermediate.

https://i.imgur.com/1mmmnsh.jpg

[KingOf]

Maybe the Trikala guy's father was a merchant from Smyrna or something
I found some Sarafopoulos in coastal Thessaly and before 1900 said he was a merchant (Sarafopoulos doesn't even exists in the -opoulos land in Peloponnese)
You're right there are Turkish origin surnames in mainland but if you search deep like i do you can spot them.
If Stavros looks so NE to you maybe he is from Thrace

[nightrider+]

Maybe the Trikala guy's father was a merchant from Smyrna or something
I found some Sarafopoulos in coastal Thessaly and before 1900 said he was a merchant (Sarafopoulos doesn't even exists in the -opoulos land in Peloponnese)
You're right there are Turkish origin surnames in mainland but if you search deep like i do you can spot them.
If Stavros looks so NE to you maybe he is from Thrace

This site claims that Stefanos Sarafis was a Vlach...

http://www.vlachs.gr/el/various-articles/tria-vivlia-vlahikou-endiaferontos

[KingOf]

Sarafis means Moneychanger btw....can't get any more merchant and traveler than that...

[KingOf]

This site claims that Stefanos Sarafis was a Vlach...

http://www.vlachs.gr/el/various-articles/tria-vivlia-vlahikou-endiaferontos

Maybe he was dude and that word existed in local dialects...
But i'm telling you Saraf prefix is overwhelmingly Eastern Greek surname which is most likely the case for the footballer

[nightrider+]

Maybe he was dude and that word existed in local dialects...
But i'm telling you Saraf prefix is overwhelmingly Eastern Greek surname which is most likely the case for the footballer

He's not Pontic in any case. Thrace is still mainland. Kapousouzis (no 4) could have Thracian origins as well.

[KingOf]

He's not Pontic in any case. Thrace is still mainland. Kapousouzis (no 4) could have Thracian origins as well.

Lol Kapousouzis? Very likely Thracian
I don't comment on others because i don't know their surnames
Common surname in Thrace

[Dekziiro]

2 looks Georgian or Chechen, 4 looks Armenian, and 7 looks almost East Asian.

No he don't

[nightrider+]

Ok, I'm bored and this is sort of interesting. Aris late 70s team, mostly Northerners and more NW tending. First one is Cypriot.

https://imgur.com/a/mYNFUUF

[Sebastianus Rex]

On the first set of 7 : mostly dinaric and dinaric mixed types (either with Mediterranean or Alpine). Only nr 4 has a more middle eastern/turkish look, Taurid.

[Fieraru]

Strange many of them look pretty exotic... not the image I had for most Greeks.

[nightrider+]

On the first set of 7 : mostly dinaric and dinaric mixed types (either with Mediterranean or Alpine). Only nr 4 has a more middle eastern/turkish look, Taurid.

These are the Pontics (plus the second link), except first man who is Constantinople Greek. I should add it in op.


Strange many of them look pretty exotic... not the image I had for most Greeks.
Which set do you mean?

[Sebastianus Rex]

These are the Pontics (plus the second link), except first man who is Constantinople Greek. I should add it in op.



Some of them look really Dinaric (in the Yugoslavian sense), faces that you could see in the Panini stickers of the ex-Yugoslavian teams. xD

[Sikeliot]

Strange many of them look pretty exotic... not the image I had for most Greeks.

Pontic Greeks are hellenized west asians and genetically more like Armenians than Greeks.

[kleenex]

Pontic Greeks are hellenized west asians and genetically more like Armenians than Greeks.

I think because of the misconceptions that many people have about Greek phenotypes you have to clarify from the outset otherwise it tends to perpetuate misconceptions. It seems that when it comes to classifications one has to be very specific about regions and phenotypic tendencies without over exaggerating one way or another.

[Sikeliot]

I think because of the misconceptions that many people have about Greek phenotypes you have to clarify from the outset otherwise it tends to perpetuate misconceptions. I'm sorry but when it comes to classifications you have to very specific about regions and phenotypic tendencies without over exaggerating one way or another.

Yes. And especially with Greeks because unlike other ethnicities, "Greek" includes people who fall entirely outside of the cline for their country and are simply a product of cultural assimilation. So like the same way Sicilians are part of the Italian cline, Pontians for instance are not part of the Greek one, they're sort of a free-standing population that is Greek by culture but not by ancestry.

Pontians are to Greece more like Sardinia to Italy or Canarian Spanish to Spain.

[Livin]

Yes. And especially with Greeks because unlike other ethnicities, "Greek" includes people who fall entirely outside of the cline for their country and are simply a product of cultural assimilation. So like the same way Sicilians are part of the Italian cline, Pontians for instance are not part of the Greek one, they're sort of a free-standing population that is Greek by culture but not by ancestry.

Pontians are to Greece more like Sardinia to Italy or Canarian Spanish to Spain.

The first ethic group that we are closer are the Lazs and after Georgians!!!

Dont take genetics so serious but more on phenotypes!!!

Pontians majority are Metbid Caucasid.

There are a lot of Pontids,Taurids(dinarid-armenid proper),and ofc many asiatic alpines.

Pure armenoids exist but not in a big grade.

You will find more pure armenoids to cretans,cypriots,asia minor greeks than to Pontians!!!

Sicily is closer to Cyprus and Crete than Pontic Greek population!!!

[KingOf]

Sikeliot always talks about genetics and phenotypes as if thet are exactly the same
Then he posts a Sicilian that passes better in France and then one in Jordan and says don't matter the genes are still in them (and on the plot Jordan and France are miles away)
And then a Cretan Greek with his genes can't look like a Northern Greek... somehow it just can't happen...his genes can't allow him to have that look
Island and Mainland Greeks apparently are more distant genetically than French and Jordanians
Again visit Greece and be impressed by its homogenity as a country (but also diverse in terms of looks within the country)

[kleenex]

The first ethic group that we are closer are the Lazs and after Georgians!!!

Dont take genetics so serious but more on phenotypes!!!

Pontians majority are Metbid Caucasid.

There are a lot of Pontids,Taurids(dinarid-armenid proper),and ofc many asiatic alpines.

Pure armenoids exist but not in a big grade.

You will find more pure armenoids to cretans,cypriots,asia minor greeks than to Pontians!!!

Sicily is closer to Cyprus and Crete than Pontic Greek population!!!

I believe that genotype and phenotype have to go hand in hand to better understand an individual's origins. IF someone is Dinaric phenotypically with genetic leanings towards Epirus or NW Greece that makes sense from a genetic/phenotypic perspective. If someone is from the Peloponnese and exhibits Alpine, Dinaric, Pontid or Atlanto Med characteristics and their genetics strongly suggest Peloponnesian roots then there is some semblance of consistency. If someone is from Anatolia, is Anatolid or East Med phenotypically and has Anatolian admixture results the same can be said. Vice versa if someone is from Lebanon with NW Euro phenotypic traits then there is an inconsistency (generally speaking) that has to be further examined genetically. You can't dismiss genetics for the sake of phenotypic preference.

[kleenex]

Sikeliot always talks about genetics and phenotypes as if thet are exactly the same
Then he posts a Sicilian that passes better in France and then one in Jordan and says don't matter the genes are still in them (and on the plot Jordan and France are miles away)
And then a Cretan Greek with his genes can't look like a Northern Greek... somehow it just can't happen...his genes can't allow him to have that look
Island and Mainland Greeks apparently are more distant genetically than French and Jordanians
Again visit Greece and be impressed by its homogenity as a country (but also diverse in terms of looks within the country)

I agree in general that all phenotypes can be found from Northern to Southern Greece to the Islands but there are some general tendencies from region to region. Also have always maintained that Greece (those who have indigenous roots) is homogeneous genetically from the South to the North with some slight variation in the Islands (particularly the Dodecanses).

[Sikeliot]

I agree in general that all phenotypes can be found from Northern to Southern Greece to the Islands but there are some general tendencies from region to region. Also have always maintained that Greece (those who have indigenous roots) is homogeneous genetically from the South to the North with some slight variation in the Islands (particularly the Dodecanses).


What I notice is that Greece (if you only include mainland and islands) ranges from being basically similar to Bulgarians at one extreme in the north and similar to Calabrese and Sicilians at the other in the Dodecanese and Crete, and then everything else forms a cline, i.e. southern Peloponnese forms a cline with the Cyclades and North Aegean, which then transitions to Crete which gets more Near Eastern as you move east across the island. Then the Dodecanese is the most outlying of the islands.

[Livin]

I believe that genotype and phenotype have to go hand in hand to better understand an individual's origins. IF someone is Dinaric phenotypically with genetic leanings towards Epirus or NW Greece that makes sense from a genetic/phenotypic perspective. If someone is from the Peloponnese and exhibits Alpine, Dinaric, Pontid or Atlanto Med characteristics and their genetics strongly suggest Peloponnesian roots then there is some semblance of consistency. If someone is from Anatolia, is Anatolid or East Med phenotypically and has Anatolian admixture results the same can be said. Vice versa if someone is from Lebanon with NW Euro phenotypic traits then there is an inconsistency (generally speaking) that has to be further examined genetically. You can't dismiss genetics for the sake of phenotypic preference.

There are africans hitting r1a and r1b haplogroups does it mean they are corded indoeuropeans?

Ofc not!

You focus more on phenotype than a haplogroup that shows the first ancestor from your daddys side.

Genetics playing major role but you cant reject phenotypes.

I will give a good example.

Pontids considered a steppe(indoeuropean) phenotype and if you want my opinon the majority of modern Greeks belong to this.

But genetics showing different.

Greece hits mostly E1b,j2,g2 etc haplogroups witch have to do with neolithics....!!!!

Dosnt make sense.

[catgeorge]

Sikeliot always talks about genetics and phenotypes as if thet are exactly the same
Then he posts a Sicilian that passes better in France and then one in Jordan and says don't matter the genes are still in them (and on the plot Jordan and France are miles away)
And then a Cretan Greek with his genes can't look like a Northern Greek... somehow it just can't happen...his genes can't allow him to have that look
Island and Mainland Greeks apparently are more distant genetically than French and Jordanians
Again visit Greece and be impressed by its homogenity as a country (but also diverse in terms of looks within the country)

He is the most pathetic inane propagandist I have ever come across.

A 5% east euro admixture = Slav according to Sikeliot lol

[Sikeliot]

He is the most pathetic inane propagandist I have ever come across.

A 5% east euro admixture = Slav according to Sikeliot lol

What's pathetic to me is you think that anywhere in mainland Greece is only 5% East European.

[KingOf]

I believe that genotype and phenotype have to go hand in hand to better understand an individual's origins. IF someone is Dinaric phenotypically with genetic leanings towards Epirus or NW Greece that makes sense from a genetic/phenotypic perspective. If someone is from the Peloponnese and exhibits Alpine, Dinaric, Pontid or Atlanto Med characteristics and their genetics strongly suggest Peloponnesian roots then there is some semblance of consistency. If someone is from Anatolia, is Anatolid or East Med phenotypically and has Anatolian admixture results the same can be said. Vice versa if someone is from Lebanon with NW Euro phenotypic traits then there is an inconsistency (generally speaking) that has to be further examined genetically. You can't dismiss genetics for the sake of phenotypic preference.

Dude i think you focus to much on specific regions.... phenotypes don't work like that

For the Europe-Asia division your logic makes sense... an Anatolid phenotype must have come from the East

You can call a Greek with that phenotype a Hellenized West Asian in the broad sense but can you call an Atlanto-Med Greek a Hellenized Spaniard? Can you call an Alpine Greek a Hellenized German? Phenotype don't recognise countries but exist on hole geographical land masses... and for Greeks living in Europe but right next to Asia makes sense for some people to look like that (especially Pontics and where they lived)

I'm sorry but that NW Greece and stuff don't make sense...too specific
Definitely genetics influnce phenotype but in a broad sense... if every family had like 20 kids we would really see how phenotypes work in correlation to genetics imo

[Livin]

He is the most pathetic inane propagandist I have ever come across.

A 5% east euro admixture = Slav according to Sikeliot lol

Slavic admixutre in Greece is not rare thing!!!

[Sikeliot]

You can call a Greek with that phenotype a Hellenized West Asian in the broad sense but can you call an Atlanto-Med Greek a Hellenized Spaniard?


Yes, because Pontians are literally Hellenized West Asians, whereas Peloponnese look closer to Spanish because they share more West Med type DNA.

[catgeorge]

What's pathetic to me is you think that anywhere in mainland Greece is only 5% East European.

Considering South Slavs are 20% - Greece is 50% right?

[Sikeliot]

Considering South Slavs are 20% - Greece is 50% right?

If South Slavs have 20% then Greeks would have closer to 10-12%.

[KingOf]

I agree in general that all phenotypes can be found from Northern to Southern Greece to the Islands but there are some general tendencies from region to region. Also have always maintained that Greece (those who have indigenous roots) is homogeneous genetically from the South to the North with some slight variation in the Islands (particularly the Dodecanses).

Ofc there are local looks there is no doubt about that but they are grossly overated here for such a small country

[catgeorge]

Slavic admixutre in Greece is not rare thing!!!

I never said it's rare - but South slavs have high Neolithic YDNA than in reverse. Also Greeks have higher R1a than I2a than South Slavs as they have higher I2a than R1a so the hypothesis of slavic influx circa 10% is bogus or else Greeks would have higher I2a than R1a like South Slavs.

Do you people understand?

[catgeorge]

If South Slavs have 20% then Greeks would have closer to 10-12%.

Could be but bogus is bogus and you always measure the upper limit with biases.

[Livin]

I never said it's rare - but South slavs have high Neolithic YDNA than in reverse. Also Greeks have higher R1a than I2a than South Slavs as they have higher I2a than R1a so the hypothesis of slavic influx circa 10% is bogus or else Greeks would have higher I2a than R1a like South Slavs.

Do you people understand?

This is why i am not taking genetics so serious and i am focucing more on phenotypes!!!!


You should come a walk in northern greece and check some gorids,and baltonordids.

Dont tell me that they are neolithics....

[KingOf]

Yes, because Pontians are literally Hellenized West Asians, whereas Peloponnese look closer to Spanish because they share more West Med type DNA.

So everyone is Hellenized... Atlanto Med Greeks came from Spain
I didn't say Pontian Greeks are identical to Peloponnesians... there are local looks
On a serious note... skullwise they may be the same but as a group its difficult to confuse them... eye region or general look (however you want to say it) is gonna be foreign in the GROUP of Spaniards
Maybe you can't understand that because don't live in Europe

[catgeorge]

This is why i am not taking genetics so serious and i am focucing more on phenotypes!!!!


You should come a walk in northern greece and check some gorids,and baltonordids.

Dont tell me that they are neolithics....

I left north Greece 10 years ago - I know exactly what its like.

[Sikeliot]

So everyone is Hellenized... Atlanto Med Greeks came from Spain
I didn't say Pontian Greeks are identical to Peloponnesians... there are local looks
On a serious note... skullwise they may be the same but as a group its difficult to confuse them... eye region or general look (however you want to say it) is gonna be foreign in the GROUP of Spaniards
Maybe you can't understand that because don't live in Europe

Pontic Greeks look Armenian. The implication of what you're saying is that Greeks overall look more like Armenian than Spanish and I disagree.

[Livin]

So everyone is Hellenized... Atlanto Med Greeks came from Spain
I didn't say Pontian Greeks are identical to Peloponnesians... there are local looks
On a serious note... skullwise they may be the same but as a group its difficult to confuse them... eye region or general look (however you want to say it) is gonna be foreign in the GROUP of Spaniards
Maybe you can't understand that because don't live in Europe

Pontians we are hellenized anatolians and if you want more specific a mix between kartvelian tribes(georgians/lazs) with a strong Iranian(Persian) influence.

And this has to do because the kindom of Pontus had elite of Persian origin while the folks were caucasians,anatolians and some greek colonists!!!!

[kleenex]

There are africans hitting r1a and r1b haplogroups does it mean they are corded indoeuropeans?

Ofc not!

You focus more on phenotype than a haplogroup that shows the first ancestor from your daddys side.

Genetics playing major role but you cant reject phenotypes.

I will give a good example.

Pontids considered a steppe(indoeuropean) phenotype and if you want my opinon the majority of modern Greeks belong to this.

But genetics showing different.

Greece hits mostly E1b,j2,g2 etc haplogroups witch have to do with neolithics....!!!!

Dosnt make sense.

[Livin]

Pontic Greeks look Armenian. The implication of what you're saying is that Greeks overall look more like Armenian than Spanish and I disagree.

You are wrong with the Armenian!!!

We look pretty much the same with Lazs and Georgians.

Armenians are fucking pure Armenoids.


I am telling you again focus more on phenotypes than genetics.


Metbid is our major phenotype.
Armenians are pure Armenids with some Iranids.

[KingOf]

Pontic Greeks look Armenian. The implication of what you're saying is that Greeks overall look more like Armenian than Spanish and I disagree.

Dude i'm not saying that.
I'm saying that the overlap between Greek regions is underastimated.
Pontians makes sense to be outliers and have more local looks.
Don't make me post some Georgian criminal mugshots from Greece not even Pontian themselves would confuse them for a Pontian GROUP
INDIVIDUALLY there is strong overlap and makes sense but with Armenians i think less so

[Livin]

Pontic Greeks look Armenian. The implication of what you're saying is that Greeks overall look more like Armenian than Spanish and I disagree.

https://www.google.gr/search?q=armenians&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjo09utjazbAhXDFywKHRZ5DYgQ_AUICigB&biw=1920&bih=974#imgrc=noTnoySBgyDfhM:
https://www.google.gr/search?q=armenians&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjo09utjazbAhXDFywKHRZ5DYgQ_AUICigB&biw=1920&bih=974#imgrc=RSkQEM00009KQM:
https://www.google.gr/search?q=armenians&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjo09utjazbAhXDFywKHRZ5DYgQ_AUICigB&biw=1920&bih=974#imgrc=_rXhnC09YttRzM:
https://www.google.gr/search?q=armenians&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjo09utjazbAhXDFywKHRZ5DYgQ_AUICigB&biw=1920&bih=974#imgrc=UFZ18fBM-6gvQM:
https://www.google.gr/search?biw=1920&bih=974&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=lOYNW_6LDsjmswGCzLfQAQ&q=armenian+people&oq=armenian+people&gs_l=img.3..0l2j0i30k1l8.6390.7156.0.7223.7.6.0.0. 0.0.138.270.0j2.2.0....0...1c.1.64.img..5.2.269... 0i67k1.0.P2r4s3x0htg#imgdii=WFZyqnC99lOtEM:&imgrc=JIaxLjMpJdaCVM:

You will never find faces like these into the Pontic population believe me!!!

[Aspar]

What I notice is that Greece (if you only include mainland and islands) ranges from being basically similar to Bulgarians at one extreme in the north and similar to Calabrese and Sicilians at the other in the Dodecanese and Crete, and then everything else forms a cline, i.e. southern Peloponnese forms a cline with the Cyclades and North Aegean, which then transitions to Crete which gets more Near Eastern as you move east across the island. Then the Dodecanese is the most outlying of the islands.

Greeks look more similar to Albanians, than to Bulgarians!

[Livin]

Greeks look more similar to Albanians, than to Bulgarians!

Hell no!

[Sikeliot]

Greeks look more similar to Albanians, than to Bulgarians!

Overall yes, but at their northernmost extreme, Greeks would be more similar to Bulgaria. Albanians are as southern as most Greeks.

[Livin]

Overall yes, but at their northernmost extreme, Greeks would be more similar to Bulgaria. Albanians are as southern as most Greeks.

Albanians in Greece seems to us like alliens...!!!

Bulgarians are very close with us and the majority are Pontids.

[Freeroostah]

Greeks look more similar to Albanians, than to Bulgarians!

I believe so too. We also share the same East European admixture (excluding the Greek Islands). We are basically the same people in terms of genotypes with Albanians being little bit closer to Western Europe.

Bulgarians have way more East European %

[KingOf]

anyway what do you people think about these Thracian Greeks?

http://www.eidisis.gr/images/stories/prosopa/andreanidis.jpg
http://www.mixanitouxronou.gr/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Logothetidis_Oute_gata-513x400.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-bal1rWTMDYM/UT5RVe6tpjI/AAAAAAAAfL8/rXSkjeoXTNA/s640/Picture0032.png
https://www.xanthipress.gr/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/mousopoulos.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-wX6nTBaRT3M/UvEfv5ZfLwI/AAAAAAAAFEQ/0spt6U_7uOI/s1600/1.-+%CE%A6%CE%AF%CE%BB%CE%B9%CF%80%CF%80%CE%BF%CF%82+ %CE%9C%CE%B1%CE%BD%CE%BF%CF%85%CE%B7%CE%BB%CE%AF%C E%B4%CE%B7%CF%82.jpg

[kleenex]

I believe so too. We also share the same East European admixture (excluding the Greek Islands). We are basically the same people in terms of genotypes with Albanians being little bit closer to Western Europe.

Bulgarians have way more East European %

I'm not sure about the West Europe part. Dinarid is apparently the predominant phenotype in Albania whereas you have Alpine Meds and Atlanto Meds in Greece (similar to Central/South Italians).

[Odin]

Pontids and Dinarids.

[Lavrentis]

The closest people phenotypically to Greeks are southern Italians. Not Albanians or Bulgarians

[Freeroostah]

I'm not sure about the West Europe part. Dinarid is apparently the predominant phenotype in Albania whereas you have Alpine Meds and Atlanto Meds in Greece (similar to Central/South Italians).

Yeah I know .Thats why I said in terms of genotypes :D

[kleenex]

Yeah I know .Thats why I said in terms of genotypes :D

Oh yes in terms of genetics I agree Greeks are closer to Albanians than Bulgarians. Albanians seem to be closer to Tuscans Greeks to Central and Soith Italians.

[nightrider+]

The closest people phenotypically to Greeks are southern Italians. Not Albanians or BulgariansIf you exclude the 30% with the unibrows.

[Sikeliot]

If you exclude the 30% with the unibrows.

Southern Italian men pluck theirs. I have a unibrow if I do not pluck.

[Sikeliot]

The closest people phenotypically to Greeks are southern Italians. Not Albanians or Bulgarians

This is true for Crete but I highly doubt it is the case for Macedonia, Thessaly, etc. I frankly see few similarities. A lot of Greeks from those regions have wide spaced eyes, square flat heads etc.

[Sikeliot]

Oh yes in terms of genetics I agree Greeks are closer to Albanians than Bulgarians. Albanians seem to be closer to Tuscans Greeks to Central and Soith Italians.

Not sure I agree with this either. I have not seen a mainland Greek result yet that is close to southern Italian except for some Peloponnesians. And not all of them.

[nightrider+]

Southern Italian men pluck theirs. I have a unibrow if I do not pluck.I'm talking about Southern Italians. Unibrows are rare in Greece, plucked eyebrows in males even more rare.

[Sikeliot]

I'm talking about Southern Italians. Unibrows are rare in Greece, plucked eyebrows in males even more rare.

Oh I was confused because I have seen unibrowed Greeks too. :lol: But all the men in my family would have them if we did not pluck.

I think it depends on which south Italians. I think Apulians and Lucanians look much more Greek than do Sicilians or Calabrese.

[kleenex]

Not sure I agree with this either. I have not seen a mainland Greek result yet that is close to southern Italian except for some Peloponnesians. And not all of them.

Pelopennesians and Thessalians are close genetically and both are relatively near Central/Southern Italian; Abruzzo. Apulia, maybe Molise. I’m not talking about Sicilians.

[Sikeliot]

Pelopennesians and Thessalians are close genetically and both are relatively near Central/Southern Italian; Abruzzo. Apulia, maybe Molise. I’m not talking about Sicilians.

Thessalian is closer to Bulgaria than to Sicily/Calabria but on none of the GEDMatch calculators do we have Apulia. There is only Sicily and "South Italy" (Calabria).

[Freeroostah]

Thessalian is closer to Bulgaria than to Sicily/Calabria but on none of the GEDMatch calculators do we have Apulia. There is only Sicily and "South Italy" (Calabria).

Im pretty sure Thessalians plot closer to Bulgaria only in Eurogenes.....cause Eurogenes lack of any other South Balkan sample. Hell, most of the Albanians are Bulgarians according to Eurogenes haha

[Sikeliot]

Im pretty sure Thessalians plot closer to Bulgaria only in Eurogenes.....cause Eurogenes lack of any other South Balkan sample. Hell, most of the Albanians are Bulgarians according to Eurogenes haha

I'm not saying Thessalians are the same as Bulgaria -- they aren't -- , but that they are closer to people in Bulgaria than to Sicily (this is the case on most GEDmatch calculators).

[Freeroostah]

I'm not saying Thessalians are the same as Bulgaria -- they aren't -- , but that they are closer to people in Bulgaria than to Sicily (this is the case on most GEDmatch calculators).

For some reason I thought that in MDLP they score Albania first, then Italy, and then Bulgaria.

[Sikeliot]

For some reason I thought that in MDLP they score Albania first, then Italy, and then Bulgaria.

That's Peloponnese.

[Freeroostah]

That's Peloponnese.

From which part of Greece would you place those results?

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 38.17
2 European_Early_Farmers 22.23
3 European_Hunters_Gatherers 19.82
4 Near_East 8.86
5 South_Central_Asian 4.06
6 North_African 3.81
7 Paleo_Siberian 1.31
8 Ancestral_Altaic 0.84
9 Subsaharian 0.42
10 Australoid 0.21
11 Amerindian 0.21
12 Austronesian 0.05
13 African_Pygmy 0.02

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) 2.06
2 Greek_Thessaloniki ( ) 2.8
3 Greek_Thessaly ( ) 3.02
4 Ashkenazi ( ) 3.79
5 Albanian_Tirana ( ) 3.94
6 Ashkenazi_Jew ( ) 4.3
7 Sicilian_Siracusa ( ) 4.53
8 Central_Greek ( ) 4.95
9 Romanian_Jew ( ) 5.12
10 Greek_Northwest ( ) 5.26
11 Sicilian_East ( ) 5.34
12 Kosovar ( ) 5.89
13 French_Jew ( ) 6.65
14 Sicilian_Center ( ) 6.86
15 Bulgarian ( ) 7.13
16 Macedonian ( ) 7.18
17 Greek ( ) 7.2
18 Cretan ( ) 7.52
19 Gagauz ( ) 7.55
20 Sicilian_Agrigento ( ) 7.64

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 90% Greek_Thessaly ( ) + 10% Muslim_Arabs_Israel ( ) @ 1.64
2 81% Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) + 19% Sicilian_East ( ) @ 1.68
3 92.3% Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) + 7.7% Tunisian_Jew ( ) @ 1.69
4 84.7% Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) + 15.3% French_Jew ( ) @ 1.69
5 75% Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) + 25% Ashkenazi ( ) @ 1.72
6 79.2% Greek_Thessaloniki ( ) + 20.8% Sephardic_Jew ( ) @ 1.72
7 87.2% Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) + 12.8% Italian_Jew ( ) @ 1.74
8 86.6% Albanian_Tirana ( ) + 13.4% Muslim_Arabs_Israel ( ) @ 1.75
9 88.7% Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) + 11.3% Sephardic_Jew ( ) @ 1.75
10 91.6% Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) + 8.4% Moroccan_Jew ( ) @ 1.75
11 93.2% Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) + 6.8% Libyan_Jew ( ) @ 1.75
12 78.6% Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) + 21.4% Ashkenazi_Jew ( ) @ 1.76
13 88.4% Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) + 11.6% Turk_Jew ( ) @ 1.76
14 78.9% Greek_Thessaloniki ( ) + 21.1% Turk_Jew ( ) @ 1.78
15 77.2% Italian_South ( ) + 22.8% North_German ( ) @ 1.81
16 64.5% Greek_Thessaloniki ( ) + 35.5% Ashkenazi_Jew ( ) @ 1.81
17 99.1% Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) + 0.9% Koryak ( ) @ 1.81
18 99.2% Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) + 0.8% Itelmen ( ) @ 1.82
19 93.1% Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) + 6.9% Syrian_Jew ( ) @ 1.83
20 99% Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) + 1% Mozabite ( ) @ 1.83

[Sikeliot]

From which part of Greece would you place those results?

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 38.17
2 European_Early_Farmers 22.23
3 European_Hunters_Gatherers 19.82
4 Near_East 8.86
5 South_Central_Asian 4.06
6 North_African 3.81
7 Paleo_Siberian 1.31
8 Ancestral_Altaic 0.84
9 Subsaharian 0.42
10 Australoid 0.21
11 Amerindian 0.21
12 Austronesian 0.05
13 African_Pygmy 0.02

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) 2.06
2 Greek_Thessaloniki ( ) 2.8
3 Greek_Thessaly ( ) 3.02
4 Ashkenazi ( ) 3.79
5 Albanian_Tirana ( ) 3.94
6 Ashkenazi_Jew ( ) 4.3
7 Sicilian_Siracusa ( ) 4.53
8 Central_Greek ( ) 4.95
9 Romanian_Jew ( ) 5.12
10 Greek_Northwest ( ) 5.26
11 Sicilian_East ( ) 5.34
12 Kosovar ( ) 5.89
13 French_Jew ( ) 6.65
14 Sicilian_Center ( ) 6.86
15 Bulgarian ( ) 7.13
16 Macedonian ( ) 7.18
17 Greek ( ) 7.2
18 Cretan ( ) 7.52
19 Gagauz ( ) 7.55
20 Sicilian_Agrigento ( ) 7.64

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 90% Greek_Thessaly ( ) + 10% Muslim_Arabs_Israel ( ) @ 1.64
2 81% Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) + 19% Sicilian_East ( ) @ 1.68
3 92.3% Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) + 7.7% Tunisian_Jew ( ) @ 1.69
4 84.7% Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) + 15.3% French_Jew ( ) @ 1.69
5 75% Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) + 25% Ashkenazi ( ) @ 1.72
6 79.2% Greek_Thessaloniki ( ) + 20.8% Sephardic_Jew ( ) @ 1.72
7 87.2% Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) + 12.8% Italian_Jew ( ) @ 1.74
8 86.6% Albanian_Tirana ( ) + 13.4% Muslim_Arabs_Israel ( ) @ 1.75
9 88.7% Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) + 11.3% Sephardic_Jew ( ) @ 1.75
10 91.6% Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) + 8.4% Moroccan_Jew ( ) @ 1.75
11 93.2% Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) + 6.8% Libyan_Jew ( ) @ 1.75
12 78.6% Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) + 21.4% Ashkenazi_Jew ( ) @ 1.76
13 88.4% Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) + 11.6% Turk_Jew ( ) @ 1.76
14 78.9% Greek_Thessaloniki ( ) + 21.1% Turk_Jew ( ) @ 1.78
15 77.2% Italian_South ( ) + 22.8% North_German ( ) @ 1.81
16 64.5% Greek_Thessaloniki ( ) + 35.5% Ashkenazi_Jew ( ) @ 1.81
17 99.1% Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) + 0.9% Koryak ( ) @ 1.81
18 99.2% Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) + 0.8% Itelmen ( ) @ 1.82
19 93.1% Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) + 6.9% Syrian_Jew ( ) @ 1.83
20 99% Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) + 1% Mozabite ( ) @ 1.83

Maniot?

[kleenex]

From which part of Greece would you place those results?

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 38.17
2 European_Early_Farmers 22.23
3 European_Hunters_Gatherers 19.82
4 Near_East 8.86
5 South_Central_Asian 4.06
6 North_African 3.81
7 Paleo_Siberian 1.31
8 Ancestral_Altaic 0.84
9 Subsaharian 0.42
10 Australoid 0.21
11 Amerindian 0.21
12 Austronesian 0.05
13 African_Pygmy 0.02

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) 2.06
2 Greek_Thessaloniki ( ) 2.8
3 Greek_Thessaly ( ) 3.02
4 Ashkenazi ( ) 3.79
5 Albanian_Tirana ( ) 3.94
6 Ashkenazi_Jew ( ) 4.3
7 Sicilian_Siracusa ( ) 4.53
8 Central_Greek ( ) 4.95
9 Romanian_Jew ( ) 5.12
10 Greek_Northwest ( ) 5.26
11 Sicilian_East ( ) 5.34
12 Kosovar ( ) 5.89
13 French_Jew ( ) 6.65
14 Sicilian_Center ( ) 6.86
15 Bulgarian ( ) 7.13
16 Macedonian ( ) 7.18
17 Greek ( ) 7.2
18 Cretan ( ) 7.52
19 Gagauz ( ) 7.55
20 Sicilian_Agrigento ( ) 7.64

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 90% Greek_Thessaly ( ) + 10% Muslim_Arabs_Israel ( ) @ 1.64
2 81% Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) + 19% Sicilian_East ( ) @ 1.68
3 92.3% Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) + 7.7% Tunisian_Jew ( ) @ 1.69
4 84.7% Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) + 15.3% French_Jew ( ) @ 1.69
5 75% Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) + 25% Ashkenazi ( ) @ 1.72
6 79.2% Greek_Thessaloniki ( ) + 20.8% Sephardic_Jew ( ) @ 1.72
7 87.2% Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) + 12.8% Italian_Jew ( ) @ 1.74
8 86.6% Albanian_Tirana ( ) + 13.4% Muslim_Arabs_Israel ( ) @ 1.75
9 88.7% Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) + 11.3% Sephardic_Jew ( ) @ 1.75
10 91.6% Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) + 8.4% Moroccan_Jew ( ) @ 1.75
11 93.2% Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) + 6.8% Libyan_Jew ( ) @ 1.75
12 78.6% Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) + 21.4% Ashkenazi_Jew ( ) @ 1.76
13 88.4% Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) + 11.6% Turk_Jew ( ) @ 1.76
14 78.9% Greek_Thessaloniki ( ) + 21.1% Turk_Jew ( ) @ 1.78
15 77.2% Italian_South ( ) + 22.8% North_German ( ) @ 1.81
16 64.5% Greek_Thessaloniki ( ) + 35.5% Ashkenazi_Jew ( ) @ 1.81
17 99.1% Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) + 0.9% Koryak ( ) @ 1.81
18 99.2% Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) + 0.8% Itelmen ( ) @ 1.82
19 93.1% Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) + 6.9% Syrian_Jew ( ) @ 1.83
20 99% Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) + 1% Mozabite ( ) @ 1.83

Yeah I would guess either Mani, southern shifted Peloponnesian or someone from Central Greece.

[averagedude]

1 - East-Med
2 - Dinarid
3 - Taurid
4 - Armenoid.
5 - Taurid
6 - East-Med
7 - Anadolid

[Freeroostah]

Maniot?

I shit you not but those are my MDLP K23 results :D xD
I guess Greeks are homogeneous, you just have to use the correct calculators and MDLP was made for Greeks and South East Europeans in general...!

[kleenex]

I shit you not but those are my MDLP K23 results :D xD
I guess Greeks are homogeneous, you just have to use the correct calculators and MDLP was made for Greeks and South East Europeans in general...!

And you're Epirote right?

[Freeroostah]

And you're Epirote right?

Epirote and 1/4 from Bithynia

[Sikeliot]

I shit you not but those are my MDLP K23 results :D xD
I guess Greeks are homogeneous, you just have to use the correct calculators and MDLP was made for Greeks and South East Europeans in general...!


The Anatolian Greek part might pull you south.

[catgeorge]

:coffee:

[Tauromachos]

The Anatolian Greek part might pull you south.

Yeah so what.

An Epirote with some Anatolian seems to be on par with Maniots.

Thus very Greek

[kleenex]

Epirote and 1/4 from Bithynia

Epirus is pretty close to Thessaly and most Peloponnesian results I've seen.

[Freeroostah]

Epirus is pretty close to Thessaly and most Peloponnesian results I've seen.

Yeah I think we are genetically closer to Peloponnesians than Macedonians or Thracians. But again it could be the opposite (Peloponnesians being north-shifted )

[Tauromachos]

Yeah I think we are genetically closer to Peloponnesians than Macedonians or Thracians. But again it could be the opposite (Peloponnesians being north-shifted )

No way are Peloponnesians more Northern shifted than Macedonians and Thracians.

Epirotes being closer to them means that Epirotes even might be less Northern shifted than these other groups and that Epirotes are the parts
of North Greeks with the least Slavic.

Epirotes should be closer to Central Greek for that matter as well then.

[Fieraru]

Yeah I think we are genetically closer to Peloponnesians than Macedonians or Thracians. But again it could be the opposite (Peloponnesians being north-shifted )

Touring around a bit of north Greece on time they were a bit more Balkan like or lighter and not as classically "Mediterranean" there, but they still looked Greek, unlike those Pontians? or whatever they are called from Turkey. But maybe I did not see enough. Also there were a few people who stuck out more as exotic. You kind of look a bit like you can pass as a Middle Eastern or Latin American guy to be honest, which is interesting but I guess can happen. I think there were many peoples from the Hellenic era that were exchanged around the region, and maybe more by Ottomans. That is why the pictures were so diverse early in the thread..