Classify Jaan Tõnisson

[Äike]

Jaan Tõnisson:

https://valitsus.ee/UserFiles/valitsus/et/ajalugu/valitsuste-loetelu/4-tonisson/jaan_tonisson_1920.jpg

http://www.kirjandusarhiiv.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/tonisson.JPG

http://vana.err.ee/img/err/5.jpg

Jaan Tõnisson played a very important role in paving the road for an independent Estonia. He was the prime minister of Estonia, twice, and he has also been the foreign minister of Estonia.

[Mordid]

Dinarid.

[Äike]

Dinarid.

Last time I checked, the Dinaric mountains were quite far from Northern-Europe and he doesn't look similar to the Russian/Polish Dinarids/Dinarics I have seen.

[Mordid]

Last time I checked, the Dinaric mountains were quite far from Northern-Europe and he doesn't look similar to the Russian/Polish Dinarids/Dinarics I have seen.

He has sloping forehead, long face, broad forehead, flatting occiput and roman nose. Those are Dinarid trait, I believe. Btw, Poles are mostly Norid, not proper Dinarid. In here, we have a lot of Dinarid than in Poland.

[Saruman]

Atlanto-Nordid + Dinaroid. I think he might pass as "Keltic". I think he has Dinaroid element, also his head seems broader here:

http://www.hs.fi/kuvat/iso_webkuva/1135261126867.jpeg

[Äike]

He reminds me of Gustav II Adolf in a way.

But if we call both of them Dinaric, then I have to say that a considerable portion of Swedes are "Dinaric niggers" (Guapo's term) with Roman noses.

Baltids don't exist in France, Dinarics don't exist in Finland, Pontids do not exist in Ireland.

That claim is based on anthropological researches and anthropological maps.

I do not agree with all Europeans with a "Roman nose" being from the Dinaric mountains area.

[Saruman]

He reminds me of Gustav II Adolf in a way.

But if we call both of them Dinaric, then I have to say that a considerable portion of Swedes are "Dinaric niggers" (Guapo's term) with Roman noses.

Baltids don't exist in France, Dinarics don't exist in Finland, Pontids do not exist in Ireland.

That claim is based on anthropological researches and anthropological maps.

I do not agree with all Europeans with a "Roman nose" being from the Dinaric mountains area.

I didn't call him Dinarid but with such influences, you think in some abstract absolutes often, fact is various phenotypes can be found in various places throughout Europe albeit occasionally. Pontids do not exist in Ireland, yes but Pontids are very similar to Atlanto-Mediterranids and there are such people there. True Baltids shouldn't be present in France. Dinarids shouldn't be present in Finland also, yes, though they might pop up in Baltic states. But remember that there are plenty of Dinarids in central Europe too, Slovaks for example in particular have a very strong Dinarid element among them, so if you count in Norids Dinaroids are widespread and such influences even more so(British isles etc.).

[Äike]

I didn't call him Dinarid but with such influences, you think in some abstract absolutes often, fact is various phenotypes can be found in various places throughout Europe albeit occasionally. Pontids do not exist in Ireland, yes but Pontids are very similar to Atlanto-Mediterranids and there are such people there. True Baltids shouldn't be present in France. Dinarids shouldn't be present in Finland also, yes, though they might pop up in Baltic states. But remember that there are plenty of Dinarids in central Europe too, Slovaks for example in particular have a very strong Dinarid element among them, so if you count in Norids Dinaroids are widespread and such influences even more so(British isles etc.).

Just because Estonia was occupied by the USSR, doesn't mean that we are automatically Dinaric and the Finns aren't. Both Estonia and Finland were part of the Russian Empire, but there were no Russians in neither areas. We can talk about Russian influence in Estonia from the 1970's and 1980's.

If you classy Jaan Tõnisson as Dinaric-influenced, the Swedes are more Dinaric than the Estonians. How do you explain that?

You see Dinarics everywhere.

[Mordid]

I didn't call him Dinarid but with such influences, you think in some abstract absolutes often, fact is various phenotypes can be found in various places throughout Europe albeit occasionally. Pontids do not exist in Ireland, yes but Pontids are very similar to Atlanto-Mediterranids and there are such people there. True Baltids shouldn't be present in France. Dinarids shouldn't be present in Finland also, yes, though they might pop up in Baltic states. But remember that there are plenty of Dinarids in central Europe too, Slovaks for example in particular have a very strong Dinarid element among them, so if you count in Norids Dinaroids are widespread and such influences even more so(British isles etc.).

Pontid and Atlanto Meidterraneanid aren't similiar. Pontid looks more similiar to Atlantid. I am totally agree with your comment.

[Mordid]

Just because Estonia was occupied by the USSR, doesn't mean that we are automatically Dinaric and the Finns aren't. Both Estonia and Finland were part of the Russian Empire, but there were no Russians in neither areas. We can talk about Russian influence in Estonia from the 1970's and 1980's.

If you classy Jaan Tõnisson as Dinaric-influenced, the Swedes are more Dinaric than the Estonians. How do you explain that?

You see Dinarics everywhere.

You are being ridiculous. Just admit it that he has definitely Dinaroid influence but he isn't Dinaroid, though. :rolleyes:

[Äike]

He has sloping forehead, long face, broad forehead, flatting occiput and roman nose. Those are Dinarid trait, I believe. Btw, Poles are mostly Norid, not proper Dinarid. In here, we have a lot of Dinarid than in Poland.

There are Ukrainians living in Estonia and in Tallinn, none of them look like Jaan Tõnisson.

[Saruman]

Just because Estonia was occupied by the USSR, doesn't mean that we are automatically Dinaric and the Finns aren't. Both Estonia and Finland were part of the Russian Empire, but there were no Russians in neither areas. We can talk about Russian influence in Estonia from the 1970's and 1980's.

If you classy Jaan Tõnisson as Dinaric-influenced, the Swedes are more Dinaric than the Estonians. How do you explain that?


Well there are Nordids with some traits that can be seen as Dinariomorphic, like often East-Nordids, Scandonordids too, that might be normal variation or admixture, or little of "dinarisation". Can you show me such examples?



You see Dinarics everywhere.

Fact is first Dinaroids in Europe were not from balkan but central Europe rather.
Bell Beaker culture carriers in central Europe had Dinaroid as their strongest element.
http://image.absoluteastronomy.com/images/encyclopediaimages/b/be/beaker_culture.png

Still their influence is present in British isles hence "Keltic Nordic" which is a Nordid/Atlanto-Nordid with a slight Dinaroid tendency (Bell Beaker derived).
these are not Dinariods, but with such tendency that makes them different from Nordoids proper.

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_movies_blog/files/2011/02/Bradley-Cooper.jpg

http://www.projectquantumleap.com/picts/jofox1a.jpg

Jaan Tõnisson IMO can be compared to "Keltic Nordics", I thought maybe he's a dinariomorphic East-Nordid but he's low vaulted (that too is common among "Keltics").
Regarding Baltics, I'll quote Agrippa from Skadi:


However, concerning what you said about Finns, well, in the Baltic countries lives a Dinarid minority, I'd say that Dinarid strains might have migrated upwards from there. Furthermore there is the possibility of rather unusual mixtures or individuals coming up with a similar combination of traits. But most will be (Indo- ?) European descendents which migrated Northwards together with the Nordoid-Cromagnoid groups or descendents of more recent immigrants.

[Agrippa]

Very progressive type obviously, high social type. Pred. Nordoid/Atlanto-Nordoid with Dinaroid tendencies, whether this is real admixture is hard to tell.

Wouldn't have looked out of place in Corded groups imo, in which Dinariomorphisms at least were present as well - or strongly Europid-hypermorphic profiles. Hard to say whether he is still mesocephalic or meso-brachycephalic.

[Äike]

Regarding Baltics, I'll quote Agrippa from Skadi:

Dinarics didn't exist in Estonia before the 18th century, read the Estonian anthropology thread. This can be attributed to foreign Central/Eastern/Southern-European influence. Estonia has received a small(~300?) number of Polish immigrants some centuries ago.

[Mordid]

Dinarics didn't exist in Estonia before the 18th century, read the Estonian anthropology thread. This can be attributed to foreign Central/Eastern/Southern-European influence. Estonia has received a small(~300?) number of Polish immigrants some centuries ago.

Or possibly because of neolithic influence. :) Like I said, Poles are mostly Norid, not proper Dinarid.

[Äike]

Or possibly because of neolithic influence. :) Like I said, Poles are mostly Norid, not proper Dinarid.

Is the 18th century in the Neolithic?

[Mordid]

Is the 18th century in the Neolithic?

Jah. :D:thumb001:

[Mordid]

Very progressive type obviously, high social type. Pred. Nordoid/Atlanto-Nordoid with Dinaroid tendencies, whether this is real admixture is hard to tell.

Wouldn't have looked out of place in Corded groups imo, in which Dinariomorphisms at least were present as well - or strongly Europid-hypermorphic profiles. Hard to say whether he is still mesocephalic or meso-brachycephalic.

He is obviously brahycephalic - flat head and broad forehead.

[Saruman]

with Dinaroid tendencies, whether this is real admixture is hard to tell.

Hard to say whether he is still mesocephalic or meso-brachycephalic.

Does his higher CI point to real Dinaroid admixture?

[Agrippa]

Does his higher CI point to real Dinaroid admixture?

If so, taken together with the rest of his traits, yes.

Because he is somewhere between Atlanto-Nordid (rather Eastnordid) and Dinaroid (rather Norid), now what is more important or even present - taken his other traits into account, should be decided by his cranial shape.

[oh-nahhh]

Aryan and Dinarid.

[King Claus]

this guy is just a lot more neanderthal than average.

[Smeagol]

Atlanto-Nordid with Dinaroid tendencies.