Portuguese Gedmatch Result

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

I was analyzing my Portuguese K36 similarity tool samples and I stumbled upon a kit that was unusual.



Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Atlantic 30.43
2 North_Sea 22.50
3 West_Med 21.75
4 Baltic 7.86
5 East_Med 5.94
6 Eastern_Euro 5.41
7 Sub-Saharan 2.11
8 West_Asian 1.89
9 Red_Sea 1.28


Finished reading population data. 207 populations found.
15 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Spanish_Cantabria @ 4.997877
2 Spanish_Cataluna @ 5.017093
3 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 6.177893
4 Southwest_French @ 6.198236
5 Portuguese @ 7.293623
6 Spanish_Galicia @ 7.713445
7 Spanish_Extremadura @ 7.983952
8 Spanish_Murcia @ 8.032388
9 Spanish_Valencia @ 8.140260
10 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 8.150479
11 Spanish_Aragon @ 8.518537
12 Spanish_Andalucia @ 10.023218
13 French @ 10.365887
14 South_Dutch @ 14.475309
15 North_Italian @ 14.538584
16 French_Basque @ 17.309660
17 Southwest_English @ 17.646208
18 West_German @ 18.635576
19 Southeast_English @ 19.257257
20 East_German @ 20.360388

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% French +50% Southwest_French @ 3.726563


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Southwest_French +25% Spanish_Cantabria +25% West_German @ 2.633900


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++
1 French_Basque + North_German + Sardinian + Southeast_English @ 2.397077
2 French_Basque + Irish + North_German + Sardinian @ 2.447524
3 French_Basque + North_German + Sardinian + West_Scottish @ 2.462009
4 Danish + French_Basque + North_German + Sardinian @ 2.481132
5 French_Basque + North_German + Sardinian + Southwest_English @ 2.504171
6 French_Basque + North_Dutch + North_German + Sardinian @ 2.505722
7 Danish + French_Basque + Sardinian + Southeast_English @ 2.609237
8 French_Basque + North_German + Orcadian + Sardinian @ 2.614468
9 Danish + French_Basque + Sardinian + South_Dutch @ 2.620665
10 French_Basque + North_Dutch + Sardinian + South_Dutch @ 2.632265
11 Southwest_French + Southwest_French + Spanish_Cantabria + West_German @ 2.633900
12 Danish + French_Basque + Irish + Sardinian @ 2.671020
13 Southwest_French + Spanish_Cantabria + Spanish_Cantabria + West_German @ 2.671376
14 South_Dutch + Spanish_Cantabria + Spanish_Cantabria + Spanish_Cantabria @ 2.680933
15 Danish + French_Basque + Sardinian + Southwest_English @ 2.683311
16 French_Basque + Sardinian + South_Dutch + West_Scottish @ 2.684653
17 South_Dutch + Southwest_French + Spanish_Cantabria + Spanish_Cantabria @ 2.685293
18 French_Basque + North_Dutch + Sardinian + Southeast_English @ 2.700961
19 French_Basque + North_German + North_German + Sardinian @ 2.718102
20 French_Basque + Irish + Sardinian + South_Dutch @ 2.737756


The guy looks like your average Portuguese though:

76385

[Morena]

I'm sorry, I still have a hard time reading those and I am not familiar enough with Portuguese results to know why is it is unusual. Is it the Baltic/Eastern results?

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

https://s22.postimg.cc/50obkei35/pca.png

Plots quite far from the average Portuguese sample.

His haplogroup is R1b1b2a1a1.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

I'm sorry, I still have a hard time reading those and I am not familiar enough with Portuguese results to know why is it is unusual. Is it the Baltic/Eastern results?

Maybe the PCA map I have posted now might simplify why he is unusual, he plots inbetween southwestern France and Aragon.

[Morena]

Oh Ok. Maybe he's descended from a northern immigrant. I'm not sure how much European immigration there was into Portugal, but I would imagine at the height of your Empire, you attracted more than a few.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Is it the Baltic/Eastern results?

They are a bit higher as well, the Portuguese average on Eurogenes K15 is:

Baltic: 5.71
Eastern European: 3.71

[Morena]

Maybe the PCA map I have posted now might simplify why he is unusual, he plots inbetween southwestern France and Aragon.

Yes, thank you.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Oh Ok. Maybe he's descended from a northern immigrant. I'm not sure how much European immigration there was into Portugal, but I would imagine at the height of your Empire, you attracted more than a few.

Very unlikely, all his surnames are Portuguese and he comes from a little village in Aveiro. If he was from a former Portuguese noble house I would consider it but there's nothing fancy about this guy's background.

[Morena]

Very unlikely, all his surnames are Portuguese and he comes from a little village in Aveiro. If he was from a former Portuguese noble house I would consider it but there's nothing fancy about this guy's background.

Ancient Visigoth? :confused:

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Ancient Visigoth? :confused:

He is just a Portuguese that is more northwestern shifted than usual. There was a Portuguese member that joined a few months ago but he never posted again, he also ploted next to Aragon.

[Petalpusher]

Looks more like Basque influence, more than halfway between PT and Basque.

Mix mode can invent plenty of theorical scenarios but i don't think there is anything that could fit realistically with NW or NE, other the similarity in the high WHG like of Basques

[Jack_vorobey]

Why is every portuguese negro-admixed?

[FilhoV]

I had a kit from a half Portuguese half French guy that has some similarities but his kit looks too northern shifted imo . Possible Galician or Cantabrian ancestry or distance French?

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Looks more like Basque influence, more than halfway between PT and Basque.

Mix mode can invent plenty of theorical scenarios but i don't think there is anything that could fit realistically with NW or NE, other the similarity in the high WHG like of Basques

On K36 is Basque component is standard for a Portuguese (5.18%). His Iberian is also low (20.64%) and his North Sea is substantially higher than average (15.11%).

He his kinda similar to me on that aspect, I get 3.81% Basque, 19.19% Iberian and 13.02% North Sea. He gets 0% East Med though while I get almost 6%. Another unusual thing about him is that he gets nearly 1.5% Volga-Ural and 1% West Caucasian whereas on your average Portuguese it should be 0%.

What his a good run for WHG?

[Petalpusher]

On K36 is Basque component is standard for a Portuguese (5.18%). His Iberian is also low (20.64%) and his North Sea is substantially higher than average (15.11%).

He his kinda similar to me on that aspect, I get 3.81% Basque, 19.19% Iberian and 13.02% North Sea. He gets 0% East Med though while I get almost 6%. Another unusual thing about him is that he gets nearly 1.5% Volga-Ural and 1% West Caucasian whereas on your average Portuguese it should be 0%.

What his a good run for WHG?

Ok interesting, he s really surprising then though i always take K36 with a grain of salt and from the original description i found, "Basque" is French Basque and "Iberian" is sampled on Spanish Basques.

Try Eurogenes K7. If he has some Basque, he should score at least 60%.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

I had a kit from a half Portuguese half French guy that has some similarities but his kit looks too northern shifted imo . Possible Galician or Cantabrian ancestry or distance French?

I am pretty confident that this guy is native Portuguese. He is within the normal range a Portuguese can plot (which is within the Iberian cluster), since not all Portugueses will plot close to the Portuguese dot. My girlfriend per example plots next to the Spanish dot on the K15 PCA Map.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Eurogenes_ANE K7 Admixture Proportions

Population
ANE 10.14
ASE 0.23
WHG-UHG 59.43
East_Eurasian 1.66
West_African 0.22
East_African 2.72
ENF 25.60

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

https://s22.postimg.cc/ofpwlx9fl/Opera_Instant_neo_2018-06-06_153459_gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr.png

[Petalpusher]

Eurogenes_ANE K7 Admixture Proportions

Population
ANE 10.14
ASE 0.23
WHG-UHG 59.43
East_Eurasian 1.66
West_African 0.22
East_African 2.72
ENF 25.60


I don't have the spreadsheet right now, but looks much higher WHG than average, and low ENF for Portuguese. I ve seen Belgians with less WHG than this and same ENF, ANE seems more in line for his ancestry. high WHG/ low ANE usually is a Basque singature but weird it doesn't show in other calculators. He could be just an outlier, there are everywhere.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

I don't have the spreadsheet right now, but looks much higher WHG than average, and low ENF for Portuguese. I ve seen Belgians with less WHG than this and same ENF, ANE seems more in line for his ancestry. high WHG/ low ANE usually is a Basque singature but weird it doesn't show in other calculators. He could be just an outlier, there are everywhere.

Using my scores as a term of comparison and the main difference we have is indeed on the WHG and ENF components. My WHG is 51.36% and ENF is 34.05%. ANE is on pair with his, I get 9.14%.

Another thing I have in common with him is the East Eurasia, I score 1.82%. This is very unusual for Portugueses I believe the average is virtually 0% and I have no idea how I got that lol.

[Ibericus]

can you paste the oracles (not the 4-oracle) ?

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

can you paste the oracles (not the 4-oracle) ?

From any particular calculator?

[Ibericus]

From any particular calculator?
eurogenes, either k13 or k15

[Böri]

Why is every portuguese negro-admixed?

Slave trade. That's not 10% average though. That's low. Portugal was first maritime-based colonial empire. It was world power back in 15th century despite having irrelevant size in Europe. Beside, Latin Catholics have more of assimilationist policies with their subjects, incl. mixing, compared to Anglo-Protestants who tended to segregate themselves. That's what you see today in modern American continent, between north and South.
French are culturally half-way between north and south Europe, they didn't mix with SSA but Maghrebis in their case.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15 Oracle results:


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Atlantic 30.43
2 North_Sea 22.5
3 West_Med 21.75
4 Baltic 7.86
5 East_Med 5.94
6 Eastern_Euro 5.41
7 Sub-Saharan 2.11
8 West_Asian 1.89
9 Red_Sea 1.28
10 Amerindian 0.72
11 Siberian 0.11

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Spanish_Cataluna 4.55
2 Spanish_Cantabria 4.61
3 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 5.61
4 Southwest_French 5.63
5 Portuguese 6.54
6 Spanish_Galicia 6.87
7 Spanish_Murcia 7.08
8 Spanish_Valencia 7.09
9 Spanish_Extremadura 7.09
10 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 7.25
11 Spanish_Aragon 7.54
12 Spanish_Andalucia 8.73
13 French 9.23
14 North_Italian 12.5
15 South_Dutch 12.86
16 French_Basque 14.93
17 Southwest_English 15.47
18 West_German 16.3
19 Southeast_English 16.96
20 East_German 17.89

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 85.9% Spanish_Cantabria + 14.1% Swedish @ 2.52
2 86.6% Spanish_Cantabria + 13.4% North_Swedish @ 2.58
3 85.6% Spanish_Cantabria + 14.4% Norwegian @ 2.59
4 86.4% Spanish_Cantabria + 13.6% West_Norwegian @ 2.68
5 84.4% Spanish_Cantabria + 15.6% North_Dutch @ 2.77
6 87.3% Spanish_Cantabria + 12.7% Southwest_Finnish @ 2.78
7 77.4% Spanish_Cantabria + 22.6% South_Dutch @ 2.79
8 84.4% Spanish_Cantabria + 15.6% Danish @ 2.8
9 83.5% Spanish_Cantabria + 16.5% North_German @ 2.81
10 81.5% Spanish_Cantabria + 18.5% West_German @ 2.81
11 82.9% Spanish_Cantabria + 17.1% East_German @ 2.84
12 88.6% Spanish_Cantabria + 11.4% Finnish @ 2.84
13 80.9% Spanish_Cantabria + 19.1% Southwest_English @ 2.88
14 82.4% Spanish_Cantabria + 17.6% Southeast_English @ 2.93
15 84% Spanish_Cantabria + 16% Irish @ 2.96
16 84.6% Spanish_Cantabria + 15.4% West_Scottish @ 2.99
17 90.3% Spanish_Cantabria + 9.7% Estonian @ 2.99
18 85.2% Spanish_Cantabria + 14.8% Orcadian @ 3
19 71.8% Spanish_Cantabria + 28.2% French @ 3.09
20 77.3% Southwest_French + 22.7% West_German @ 3.1



Eurogenes K13 Oracle results:
K13 Oracle ref data revised 21 Nov 2013



Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 41.23
2 West_Med 26.8
3 Baltic 15.51
4 East_Med 8.84
5 West_Asian 2.7
6 Sub-Saharan 2.18
7 Red_Sea 1.31
8 Amerindian 0.92
9 Siberian 0.29
10 East_Asian 0.21

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Southwest_French 4.83
2 Spanish_Cantabria 5.01
3 Spanish_Cataluna 5.28
4 Spanish_Galicia 6.07
5 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 6.31
6 Portuguese 7.03
7 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 7.15
8 Spanish_Valencia 7.17
9 Spanish_Extremadura 7.89
10 French 7.9
11 Spanish_Murcia 7.96
12 Spanish_Aragon 8.4
13 Spanish_Andalucia 8.85
14 South_Dutch 12.67
15 West_German 13.35
16 North_Italian 13.64
17 Southeast_English 16.37
18 French_Basque 16.45
19 Southwest_English 16.48
20 Austrian 17.86

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 81.2% Spanish_Cantabria + 18.8% East_German @ 2.36
2 89.5% Spanish_Cantabria + 10.5% Estonian @ 2.39
3 87.8% Spanish_Cantabria + 12.2% Southwest_Finnish @ 2.42
4 89.4% Spanish_Cantabria + 10.6% Finnish @ 2.46
5 88.1% Spanish_Cantabria + 11.9% Polish @ 2.46
6 90.2% Spanish_Cantabria + 9.8% Lithuanian @ 2.47
7 87% Spanish_Cantabria + 13% South_Polish @ 2.48
8 80.3% Spanish_Cantabria + 19.7% Austrian @ 2.53
9 89.2% Spanish_Cantabria + 10.8% Russian_Smolensk @ 2.55
10 89.3% Spanish_Cantabria + 10.7% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 2.55
11 89.4% Spanish_Cantabria + 10.6% Belorussian @ 2.56
12 90.1% Spanish_Cantabria + 9.9% East_Finnish @ 2.56
13 87.8% Spanish_Cantabria + 12.2% Ukrainian @ 2.57
14 89.3% Spanish_Cantabria + 10.7% Estonian_Polish @ 2.57
15 89.9% Spanish_Cantabria + 10.1% Kargopol_Russian @ 2.59
16 89.3% Spanish_Cantabria + 10.7% Southwest_Russian @ 2.6
17 86.2% Spanish_Cantabria + 13.8% North_Swedish @ 2.62
18 87.5% Spanish_Cantabria + 12.5% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 2.65
19 90.7% Spanish_Cantabria + 9.3% Erzya @ 2.67
20 63.9% Orcadian + 36.1% Sardinian @ 2.72

[Iloko]

If Portuguese have more 'North African' influence than the Spaniards then what components would that admixture fall into on this calculator?

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

If Portuguese have more 'North African' influence than the Spaniards then what components would that admixture fall into on this calculator?

Portugueses do not have more north african genomes than "Spaniards", it depends on the region you're talking about. Western Iberians have slightly more and it decreases as you go towards the North-east of the peninsula.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

If Portuguese have more 'North African' influence than the Spaniards then what components would that admixture fall into on this calculator?

To answer your question, this guys scores 3,81% North African on K36. It is slightly below the Portuguese average on K36 which is about 5%.

Main components for North Africans on K13 and K15 are West Med and East Med, so it is difficult to decipher that input on those calculators.

[Ibericus]

Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15 Oracle results:


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Atlantic 30.43
2 North_Sea 22.5
3 West_Med 21.75
4 Baltic 7.86
5 East_Med 5.94
6 Eastern_Euro 5.41
7 Sub-Saharan 2.11
8 West_Asian 1.89
9 Red_Sea 1.28
10 Amerindian 0.72
11 Siberian 0.11

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Spanish_Cataluna 4.55
2 Spanish_Cantabria 4.61
3 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 5.61
4 Southwest_French 5.63
5 Portuguese 6.54
6 Spanish_Galicia 6.87
7 Spanish_Murcia 7.08
8 Spanish_Valencia 7.09
9 Spanish_Extremadura 7.09
10 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 7.25
11 Spanish_Aragon 7.54
12 Spanish_Andalucia 8.73
13 French 9.23
14 North_Italian 12.5
15 South_Dutch 12.86
16 French_Basque 14.93
17 Southwest_English 15.47
18 West_German 16.3
19 Southeast_English 16.96
20 East_German 17.89

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 85.9% Spanish_Cantabria + 14.1% Swedish @ 2.52
2 86.6% Spanish_Cantabria + 13.4% North_Swedish @ 2.58
3 85.6% Spanish_Cantabria + 14.4% Norwegian @ 2.59
4 86.4% Spanish_Cantabria + 13.6% West_Norwegian @ 2.68
5 84.4% Spanish_Cantabria + 15.6% North_Dutch @ 2.77
6 87.3% Spanish_Cantabria + 12.7% Southwest_Finnish @ 2.78
7 77.4% Spanish_Cantabria + 22.6% South_Dutch @ 2.79
8 84.4% Spanish_Cantabria + 15.6% Danish @ 2.8
9 83.5% Spanish_Cantabria + 16.5% North_German @ 2.81
10 81.5% Spanish_Cantabria + 18.5% West_German @ 2.81
11 82.9% Spanish_Cantabria + 17.1% East_German @ 2.84
12 88.6% Spanish_Cantabria + 11.4% Finnish @ 2.84
13 80.9% Spanish_Cantabria + 19.1% Southwest_English @ 2.88
14 82.4% Spanish_Cantabria + 17.6% Southeast_English @ 2.93
15 84% Spanish_Cantabria + 16% Irish @ 2.96
16 84.6% Spanish_Cantabria + 15.4% West_Scottish @ 2.99
17 90.3% Spanish_Cantabria + 9.7% Estonian @ 2.99
18 85.2% Spanish_Cantabria + 14.8% Orcadian @ 3
19 71.8% Spanish_Cantabria + 28.2% French @ 3.09
20 77.3% Southwest_French + 22.7% West_German @ 3.1



Eurogenes K13 Oracle results:
K13 Oracle ref data revised 21 Nov 2013



Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 41.23
2 West_Med 26.8
3 Baltic 15.51
4 East_Med 8.84
5 West_Asian 2.7
6 Sub-Saharan 2.18
7 Red_Sea 1.31
8 Amerindian 0.92
9 Siberian 0.29
10 East_Asian 0.21

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Southwest_French 4.83
2 Spanish_Cantabria 5.01
3 Spanish_Cataluna 5.28
4 Spanish_Galicia 6.07
5 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 6.31
6 Portuguese 7.03
7 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 7.15
8 Spanish_Valencia 7.17
9 Spanish_Extremadura 7.89
10 French 7.9
11 Spanish_Murcia 7.96
12 Spanish_Aragon 8.4
13 Spanish_Andalucia 8.85
14 South_Dutch 12.67
15 West_German 13.35
16 North_Italian 13.64
17 Southeast_English 16.37
18 French_Basque 16.45
19 Southwest_English 16.48
20 Austrian 17.86

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 81.2% Spanish_Cantabria + 18.8% East_German @ 2.36
2 89.5% Spanish_Cantabria + 10.5% Estonian @ 2.39
3 87.8% Spanish_Cantabria + 12.2% Southwest_Finnish @ 2.42
4 89.4% Spanish_Cantabria + 10.6% Finnish @ 2.46
5 88.1% Spanish_Cantabria + 11.9% Polish @ 2.46
6 90.2% Spanish_Cantabria + 9.8% Lithuanian @ 2.47
7 87% Spanish_Cantabria + 13% South_Polish @ 2.48
8 80.3% Spanish_Cantabria + 19.7% Austrian @ 2.53
9 89.2% Spanish_Cantabria + 10.8% Russian_Smolensk @ 2.55
10 89.3% Spanish_Cantabria + 10.7% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 2.55
11 89.4% Spanish_Cantabria + 10.6% Belorussian @ 2.56
12 90.1% Spanish_Cantabria + 9.9% East_Finnish @ 2.56
13 87.8% Spanish_Cantabria + 12.2% Ukrainian @ 2.57
14 89.3% Spanish_Cantabria + 10.7% Estonian_Polish @ 2.57
15 89.9% Spanish_Cantabria + 10.1% Kargopol_Russian @ 2.59
16 89.3% Spanish_Cantabria + 10.7% Southwest_Russian @ 2.6
17 86.2% Spanish_Cantabria + 13.8% North_Swedish @ 2.62
18 87.5% Spanish_Cantabria + 12.5% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 2.65
19 90.7% Spanish_Cantabria + 9.3% Erzya @ 2.67
20 63.9% Orcadian + 36.1% Sardinian @ 2.72
looks like he could be a Cantabrian, except that his SSA is too high, the average for cantabrians is 0.6% , this guy has 2.11%
Which is very rare for a Portuguese. Normally they are closest to Extremadura, Galicia, or Castille, but never reach to resemble regions like Cantabria, Catalonia, Aragon

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

looks like he could be a Cantabrian, except that his SSA is too high, the average for cantabrians is 0.6% , this guy has 2.11%
Which is very rare for a Portuguese. Normally they are closest to Extremadura, Galicia, or Castille, but never reach to resemble regions like Cantabria, Catalonia, Aragon

Oddly on K36 he only scores West_African 0.29% and no other SSA component. I don't know why there's such a big difference between calculators.

[Rocinante]

Bet he is from Região Norte.

[Cernunnos]

Bet he is from Região Norte.

And....?

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Bet he is from Região Norte.

No, he is from a little village in Aveiro. Região do Centro.

[Cernunnos]

No, he is from a little village in Aveiro. Região do Centro.

Centre-North, it is not Centre like Coimbra, Leiria, Santarém or Castelo Branco.

Technically some of the northern parts of the District like Oliveira de Azemeis or Espinho are fully integrated into Northern Portugal.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Centre-North, it is not Centre like Coimbra, Leiria, Santarém or Castelo Branco.

Technically some of the northern parts of the District like Oliveira de Azemeis or Espinho are fully integrated into Northern Portugal.

I am getting technical here and basing myself on the NUTS de Portugal - Nomenclatura das Unidades Territoriais para Fins Estatísticos (Nomenclature of Territorial Units for Statistics). Aveiro belongs to the NUT II, which makes it a Região do Centro\Região das Beiras.

[Cernunnos]

I am getting technical here and basing myself on the NUTS de Portugal - Nomenclatura das Unidades Territoriais para Fins Estatísticos (Nomenclature of Territorial Units for Statistics). Aveiro belongs to the NUT II, which makes it a Região do Centro\Região das Beiras.

NUTS are vague and unreliable, for them Mação is part of Santarém when it should be part of Castelo Branco.

Aveiro and it's northern parts share a cultural background with Porto and other Northern cities. According to Nuts II, the Norte region embraces some Aveiro, Viseu and probably Guarda towns.

[Rocinante]

Região Norte is ethnically closer to northwestern iberians populations, indeed they are, but this could explain why so much "Northern" in this admixture results. I'm very ignorant in the issue but i'm just giving my honest and poorly informative opinion. Best regards.

[Rocinante]

Interesting... So extrange those results, that guy may be more closer to the visigoths and the suevis than we may think. Not the classic mediterranean iberian portuguese.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Região Norte is ethnically closer to northwestern iberians populations, indeed they are, but this could explain why so much "Northern" in this admixture results. I'm very ignorant in the issue but i'm just giving my honest and poorly informative opinion. Best regards.

Portuguese and Galicians are genetically close to one another, the region where they are originally from is not really that relevant since both nations are relatively homogeneous.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

NUTS are vague and unreliable, for them Mação is part of Santarém when it should be part of Castelo Branco.

Aveiro and it's northern parts share a cultural background with Porto and other Northern cities. According to Nuts II, the Norte region embraces some Aveiro, Viseu and probably Guarda towns.

It is kinda vague but I don't traditionally think of Aveiro, Viseu and Guarda as "Northerners". They are Beirões to me.

I think your perception comes from the perspective of someone that resides in Lisbon like myself, so obviously to us those regions are further north but from the perspective of someone living in Porto they will be further south.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Interesting... So extrange those results, that guy may be more closer to the visigoths and the suevis than we may think. Not the classic mediterranean iberian portuguese.

Now that's exaggerating and mere speculation. That guy's results don't differ that drastically from your average Portuguese, just tiny percentages among a few components but that's more than enough for the sample to plot further away.

Notice how it is still within the Iberian cluster, he is not plotting with Germans.

For a comparison, here are his north-western and north-eastern peaking components:


Atlantic 30.43
North_Sea 22.50
Baltic 7.86
Eastern_Euro 5.41

Total = 66,20%


And now mine:

Atlantic 26.02
North_Sea 19.84
Eastern_Euro 5.49
Baltic 5.14

Total = 56,49%


And my girlfriend:

North_Sea 25.66
Atlantic 24.33
Eastern_Euro 4.01
Baltic 3.22

Total = 57,22%

The difference is 9,71% considering me and 8,98% considering my girlfriend.

[Nico Nobrix]

I don't have the spreadsheet right now, but looks much higher WHG than average, and low ENF for Portuguese. I ve seen Belgians with less WHG than this and same ENF, ANE seems more in line for his ancestry. high WHG/ low ANE usually is a Basque singature but weird it doesn't show in other calculators. He could be just an outlier, there are everywhere.

He is in the ball park, but yes WHG is 8-9 points higher, mine is 51, im northern and Madeiran Portuguese. Its possible he is just more Northern centered, as possibly a stronger Celtic or Visigoth descendent

[Nico Nobrix]

Why is every portuguese negro-admixed?

Because we fought 500-700 years to prevent the rest of Europe from becoming African/Muslim. Our invaders left tiny traces of black african DNA. Your welcome?

[Hyoga7]

https://s22.postimg.cc/50obkei35/pca.png

Plots quite far from the average Portuguese sample.

His haplogroup is R1b1b2a1a1.


Boas,

I am also a R L-21.

Would it be possible for me to know where I plot on that map? What would the required data be?

Obrigado!

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Boas,

I am also a R L-21.

Would it be possible for me to know where I plot on that map? What would the required data be?

Obrigado!

Welcome!

Have you tested with 23andMe? You need to download your raw data and upload it to Gedmatch. Then you have to run the Eurogenes K15 calculator to generate the results.

May I ask from which regions in Portugal you have known ancestry? Seems that R1b-L21 is not uncommon among Portugueses.

Once you have gotten your results you can put them here and I will plot you on the map or if you prefer you can contact me through private messaging and I will explain you how to do it.

[Hyoga7]

Slave trade. That's not 10% average though. That's low. Portugal was first maritime-based colonial empire. It was world power back in 15th century despite having irrelevant size in Europe. Beside, Latin Catholics have more of assimilationist policies with their subjects, incl. mixing, compared to Anglo-Protestants who tended to segregate themselves. That's what you see today in modern American continent, between north and South.
French are culturally half-way between north and south Europe, they didn't mix with SSA but Maghrebis in their case.


Not necessarily African Slave Trade: the scientific study below estimates that 35% of the lineages came from Africa thousands of years ago, probably when the Sahara started to become a desert.

35%-65% statement:

Cerezo M, Achilli A, Olivieri A, Perego UA, Gómez-Carballa A, Brisighelli F, et al. (2012) Reconstructing ancient mitochondrial DNA links between Africa and Europe. Genome Res 22: 821–826. pmid:22454235

[Hyoga7]

Welcome!

Have you tested with 23andMe? You need to download your raw data and upload it to Gedmatch. Then you have to run the Eurogenes K15 calculator to generate the results.

May I ask from which regions in Portugal you have known ancestry? Seems that R1b-L21 is not uncommon among Portugueses.

Once you have gotten your results you can put them here and I will plot you on the map or if you prefer you can contact me through private messaging and I will explain you how to do it.


Olá, thanks for replying?
Do you just need "Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15 Oracle results"?

I am from Aveiro.
For what I understood, the most common subclade of R1b in Iberia is DF27 (Gallo-Iberian). The Atlantic Celtic branch (L21) is more common in the Northern part of Iberia


P.S. - desculpa, mas como é que se envia uma mensagem privada? Queria enviar o Eurogenes 15 e o 36 (outro thread).

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Olá, thanks for replying?
Do you just need "Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15 Oracle results"?

I am from Aveiro.
For what I understood, the most common subclade of R1b in Iberia is DF27 (Gallo-Iberian). The Atlantic Celtic branch (L21) is more common in the Northern part of Iberia.

Yes, I only need the admix results (sorted) of the oracle.

Interesting. I am from Castelo Branco district and so is all my family.


https://www.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-R1b-L21.gif


According to Eupedia these are the regions where it peaks but I have seen quite a few people from the center and beiras having it.


DF27 is indeed the most common R1b sub-clade among Iberians.

[Hyoga7]

desculpa, mas como é que se envia uma mensagem privada? Queria enviar o Eurogenes 15 e o 36 (outro thread).

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

desculpa, mas como é que se envia uma mensagem privada? Queria enviar o Eurogenes 15 e o 36 (outro thread).

Como ainda não fizeste posts suficientes não tens permissão para enviar mensagens privadas acho eu. Regras do fórum, após dez posts acho que já terás permissão.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

É tranquilo postares os teus resultados, desde que não metas o número do teu kit ninguém te irá conseguir rastrear se for esse o problema.

Podes sempre gravar os resultados num ficheiro Word ou NotePad ou algo do género e fazer upload para algum host.

https://wetransfer.com

Depois é só enviares-me o link através de rep comment.

[Hyoga7]

É tranquilo postares os teus resultados, desde que não metas o número do teu kit ninguém te irá conseguir rastrear se for esse o problema.

Podes sempre gravar os resultados num ficheiro Word ou NotePad ou algo do género e fazer upload para algum host.

https://wetransfer.com

Depois é só enviares-me o link através de rep comment.


Aí vai:
https://wetransfer.com/downloads/bd3393f237382629c5a8b227be65091920180813111348/96e4d3dedd3b94cd8b1368b856cd568d20180813111348/769a25

Obrigado

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Aí vai:


Obrigado

https://s22.postimg.cc/7n2qoq3nl/hayoga.jpg

https://s22.postimg.cc/ah5w2a8fl/Opera_Instant_neo_2018-08-13_122409_gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr.png

[Hyoga7]

That was like Flash!! :)

As for the first diagram, Portuguese on the mouche!

As for the map, I am sorry, but could you explain better the numbers and the colors that appear in the countries?

Muito obrigado!

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

That was like Flash!! :)

As for the first diagram, Portuguese on the mouche!

As for the map, I am sorry, but could you explain better the numbers and the colors that appear in the countries?

Muito obrigado!

You're textbook Portuguese.

The Eurogenes K36 similarity tool map tells you to which samples from each European region you share more affinity with (the higher the number, the more similarity you have). In your case it seems to be with the Balearic Islands and Southeast France\Northwest Italy, followed by close proximity to most of Iberia, Central France and North Italy. Nothing unusual for a Portuguese, you are within the range.

[Nico Nobrix]

Does this sample have direct negroid admixture or is the 3% from another source?

Admix Results (sorted):

#PopulationPercent
North_Atlantic39.72
West_Med23.70
East_Med15.21
Baltic9.29
Red_Sea3.52
Sub-Saharan3.00
Northeast_African2.56
East_Asian2.14

Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.
13 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Spanish_Murcia @ 4.226476
2 Portuguese @ 4.798917
3 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 5.035123
4 Spanish_Extremadura @ 5.686357
5 Spanish_Valencia @ 6.325444
6 Spanish_Galicia @ 6.347419
7 Spanish_Cataluna @ 6.464032
8 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 7.091851
9 Spanish_Andalucia @ 7.482277
10 Spanish_Cantabria @ 8.989161
11 Spanish_Aragon @ 9.168781
12 Southwest_French @ 11.711581
13 North_Italian @ 12.381323
14 French @ 12.483251
15 Tuscan @ 18.221422
16 South_Dutch @ 19.196756
17 West_German @ 19.286997
18 French_Basque @ 22.336725
19 Southeast_English @ 23.581585
20 Southwest_English @ 24.250553

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Portuguese +50% Spanish_Murcia @ 4.220566


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Spanish_Aragon +25% Tunisian +25% West_Scottish @ 4.033851

[Adamm]

Does this sample have direct negroid admixture or is the 3% from another source?

Admix Results (sorted):

#PopulationPercent
North_Atlantic39.72
West_Med23.70
East_Med15.21
Baltic9.29
Red_Sea3.52
Sub-Saharan3.00
Northeast_African2.56
East_Asian2.14

Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.
13 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Spanish_Murcia @ 4.226476
2 Portuguese @ 4.798917
3 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 5.035123
4 Spanish_Extremadura @ 5.686357
5 Spanish_Valencia @ 6.325444
6 Spanish_Galicia @ 6.347419
7 Spanish_Cataluna @ 6.464032
8 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 7.091851
9 Spanish_Andalucia @ 7.482277
10 Spanish_Cantabria @ 8.989161
11 Spanish_Aragon @ 9.168781
12 Southwest_French @ 11.711581
13 North_Italian @ 12.381323
14 French @ 12.483251
15 Tuscan @ 18.221422
16 South_Dutch @ 19.196756
17 West_German @ 19.286997
18 French_Basque @ 22.336725
19 Southeast_English @ 23.581585
20 Southwest_English @ 24.250553

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Portuguese +50% Spanish_Murcia @ 4.220566


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Spanish_Aragon +25% Tunisian +25% West_Scottish @ 4.033851

Pretty high for a portugese, i'm fully Moroccan and i get 6% which is normal for Moroccans consedering the Iberomaurusian connection.

[Adamastor]

Does this sample have direct negroid admixture or is the 3% from another source?

Admix Results (sorted):

#PopulationPercent
North_Atlantic39.72
West_Med23.70
East_Med15.21
Baltic9.29
Red_Sea3.52
Sub-Saharan3.00
Northeast_African2.56
East_Asian2.14

Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.
13 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Spanish_Murcia @ 4.226476
2 Portuguese @ 4.798917
3 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 5.035123
4 Spanish_Extremadura @ 5.686357
5 Spanish_Valencia @ 6.325444
6 Spanish_Galicia @ 6.347419
7 Spanish_Cataluna @ 6.464032
8 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 7.091851
9 Spanish_Andalucia @ 7.482277
10 Spanish_Cantabria @ 8.989161
11 Spanish_Aragon @ 9.168781
12 Southwest_French @ 11.711581
13 North_Italian @ 12.381323
14 French @ 12.483251
15 Tuscan @ 18.221422
16 South_Dutch @ 19.196756
17 West_German @ 19.286997
18 French_Basque @ 22.336725
19 Southeast_English @ 23.581585
20 Southwest_English @ 24.250553

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Portuguese +50% Spanish_Murcia @ 4.220566


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Spanish_Aragon +25% Tunisian +25% West_Scottish @ 4.033851

Some Portuguese and many other Iberians score Sub-Saharan and Northeast African (some can have even 5% of the two combined) on GEDmatch. It seems the ''Iberian'' sample includes partially some ancient type of DNA with affinity to SSA that is read as SSA (but it seems Northeast African is not purely SSA).

I realized that seeing Brazilian kits. Most Brazilians with Portuguese ancestry who scored any proportion of SSA on commercial tests like 23andme and MyHeritage generally got much more Sub-Saharan in GEDmatch.

I see guys who scored 4% or 5% SSA having their percentages almost doubled. It's probably because the tests only go back around 500 years so the additional component GEDmatch was reading as increased SSA was actually hidden in the ''Iberian'' component.

[Nico Nobrix]

Slave trade. That's not 10% average though. That's low. Portugal was first maritime-based colonial empire. It was world power back in 15th century despite having irrelevant size in Europe. Beside, Latin Catholics have more of assimilationist policies with their subjects, incl. mixing, compared to Anglo-Protestants who tended to segregate themselves. That's what you see today in modern American continent, between north and South.
French are culturally half-way between north and south Europe, they didn't mix with SSA but Maghrebis in their case.

Thats actually not true,

Spanish and Portuguese are half Northern Europe and Half Southern. French are 65% Northern and 35% Southern. The average regions of Spain + Portugal have 50% North Atlantic/Baltic combination and the other 50% is Mediterranean

[Nico Nobrix]

That is true. I noticed on 23 and me, it has me at 1.5& SSA, so to see another 1.5% on GED match gives me the assumption that 1.5% SSA is ancient, and my other 1.5% is probably within the last 200 years

[Urbanuss]

Why is every portuguese negro-admixed?

lol.