Is 23AndMe Wrong/Mostly Wrong About Corded's Mom's AJ Ancestry?

[Figaro]

Can't believe I have to implement this, but: I have no motivation either way for or against that kind of ancestry in me. I just had a thought and wish to explore said thought more. Below are her results from 23andme, Wegene (I know, I know...), Eurogenes K13 and JTEST.

23andme has my mother at 5.5% Ashkenazi Jewish. Her current AC (on 50% spec):

Eastern European: 35.2% (four dots next to Belarus, three next to Russia, three next to Poland, two next to Hungary, one next to Ukraine, one next to Lithuania, one next to Slovakia)

Scandinavian: 9.0% (one dot next to Denmark)

French and German: 6.8% (two dots next to Germany)

Ashkenazi: 5.5%

British and Irish: 3.0% (one dot next to U.K.)

Balkan: 2.3% (one dot next to Croatia)

Italian: 0.4%

Broadly NW Euro: 24.2%

BRoadly South Euro: 3.0%

BRoadly European: 10.4%

East Asian and Native American: 0.2%

Siberian: 0.1%
Broadly: 0.1%

Importing to WEGENE (not great for Euros yet, but just gonna post it all the same):

Finnish/Russian: 50.33%
Spaniards: 29.12%
Balkan: 11.64%
British: 8.32%
Ashkenazi: 0.53% (Again, I know this site is mostly geared for East Asians, but AJ's are genetically a pretty distinct lot. Wouldn't it be at least somewhat higher here?)
Other: 0.02%

EUROGENES K13:
Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 37.28
2 North_Atlantic 32.84
3 West_Med 11.92
4 East_Med 6.83
5 West_Asian 5.66
6 South_Asian 1.77
7 Red_Sea 1.43
8 Siberian 1.39


Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.
13 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 South_Polish @ 5.615799
2 Hungarian @ 6.944128
3 Croatian @ 7.364062
4 East_German @ 7.437738
5 Ukrainian_Lviv @ 7.537293
6 Ukrainian @ 8.367209
7 Polish @ 9.347516
8 Austrian @ 9.387593
9 Moldavian @ 11.180273
10 Southwest_Finnish @ 12.414995
11 Southwest_Russian @ 12.811396
12 Russian_Smolensk @ 12.933526
13 Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 13.416420
14 Estonian_Polish @ 13.507435
15 Belorussian @ 13.618048
16 North_Swedish @ 14.169118
17 Serbian @ 15.586457
18 Finnish @ 15.714602
19 Estonian @ 16.162874
20 Kargopol_Russian @ 16.297646

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% East_German +50% South_Polish @ 2.123548


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Estonian_Polish +25% Orcadian +25% Romanian @ 1.106264


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++
1 Estonian + Estonian_Polish + Serbian + South_Dutch @ 0.994914
2 French + Hungarian + Lithuanian + Southwest_Russian @ 1.006805
3 Lithuanian + North_Italian + North_Swedish + Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 1.031910
4 East_German + Polish + Serbian + Southwest_Finnish @ 1.041756
5 Estonian + Russian_Smolensk + Serbian + South_Dutch @ 1.048694
6 Estonian_Polish + Hungarian + South_Dutch + Southwest_Russian @ 1.097012
7 Estonian_Polish + Estonian_Polish + Orcadian + Romanian @ 1.106264
8 Estonian + Lithuanian + Romanian + South_Dutch @ 1.110855
9 Estonian + French + Lithuanian + Serbian @ 1.130045
10 Estonian_Polish + Lithuanian + Romanian + Southwest_English @ 1.159342
11 Estonian + Estonian_Polish + Serbian + West_German @ 1.160213
12 Lithuanian + North_Italian + North_Swedish + Southwest_Russian @ 1.169903
13 Estonian_Polish + French + South_Polish + South_Polish @ 1.170097
14 Belorussian + Croatian + South_Dutch + South_Polish @ 1.170770
15 East_German + Russian_Smolensk + Serbian + Southwest_Finnish @ 1.178339
16 Estonian_Polish + Estonian_Polish + Hungarian + South_Dutch @ 1.185554
17 Estonian_Polish + Hungarian + Russian_Smolensk + South_Dutch @ 1.188112
18 Estonian_Polish + Estonian_Polish + Orcadian + Serbian @ 1.195627
19 Croatian + Estonian_Polish + South_Dutch + South_Polish @ 1.197117
20 Estonian_Polish + Lithuanian + Romanian + Southeast_English @ 1.197196


JTEST:

Jtest 4-Ancestors Oracle
This program is based on 4-Ancestors Oracle Version 0.96 by Alexandr Burnashev.
Questions about results should be sent to him at: Alexandr.Burnashev@gmail.com
Original concept proposed by Sergey Kozlov.
Many thanks to Alexandr for helping us get this web version developed.

Jtest Oracle population reference data revised 06 Nov 2012.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 SOUTH_BALTIC 20.93
2 NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO 20.21
3 EAST_EURO 19.16
4 ATLANTIC 18.91
5 WEST_MED 8.08
6 ASHKENAZI 4.44
7 WEST_ASIAN 3.60
8 EAST_MED 3.04
9 SOUTH_ASIAN 1.26


Finished reading population data. 78 populations found.
14 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 AT @ 9.713467
2 HU @ 9.770246
3 PL @ 10.138852
4 South_Finnish @ 11.383050
5 North_Swedish @ 11.439263
6 West_Russian @ 12.068996
7 UA @ 12.193340
8 South_&_Central_Swedish @ 12.816602
9 Ukrainian-Russian @ 13.229326
10 West_&_Central_German @ 13.580915
11 NO @ 13.712624
12 NL @ 14.526819
13 EE @ 14.824071
14 Belorussian @ 14.869775
15 DK @ 15.004644
16 East_Finnish @ 15.252179
17 Serbian @ 15.813924
18 East_Russian @ 15.866424
19 Orcadian @ 16.811895
20 English @ 17.273344

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% NL +50% Ukrainian-Russian @ 2.628475


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% NL +25% Ukrainian-Russian +25% Ukrainian-Russian @ 2.628475


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 AT + DK + West_Russian + West_Russian @ 2.119482
2 AT + IE + Ukrainian-Russian + West_Russian @ 2.184635
3 AT + East_Russian + Orcadian + PL @ 2.191941
4 AT + Scottish + Ukrainian-Russian + Ukrainian-Russian @ 2.197498
5 AT + Cornish + East_Russian + PL @ 2.243753
6 AT + Cornish + North_Russian + PL @ 2.251406
7 AT + Orcadian + Ukrainian-Russian + West_Russian @ 2.251611
8 AT + Scottish + Ukrainian-Russian + West_Russian @ 2.259606
9 AT + IE + Ukrainian-Russian + Ukrainian-Russian @ 2.264094
10 AT + East_Russian + IE + PL @ 2.279253
11 AT + IE + North_Russian + PL @ 2.286020
12 AT + East_Russian + Scottish + Ukrainian-Russian @ 2.308384
13 AT + East_Russian + Scottish + UA @ 2.308877
14 AT + East_Russian + PL + Scottish @ 2.316906
15 AT + North_Russian + Orcadian + PL @ 2.329704
16 Cornish + Ukrainian-Russian + Ukrainian-Russian + West_&_Central_German @ 2.334728
17 AT + DK + Ukrainian-Russian + West_Russian @ 2.358416
18 AT + Cornish + East_Russian + West_Russian @ 2.372596
19 Cornish + NL + Ukrainian-Russian + Ukrainian-Russian @ 2.390525
20 AT + Orcadian + West_Russian + West_Russian @ 2.392798

[Leto]

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% East_German +50% South_Polish @ 2.123548
Basically Czech or at least pretty close to them.

[Figaro]

Bump

[Figaro]

Basically Czech or at least pretty close to them.

It must be because she's half East Slav, half Danish-German mix. A logical average would be West Slavs, I suppose.

[Annie999]

Ive heard 23andme is the best reader for AJ. Wegene is really bad, I would ignore whatever it says. Why dont you upload the data to MyHeritage?

[Peterski]

but AJ's are genetically a pretty distinct lot.

In some ways yes, but in other ways - not.

What Davidski wrote about this (he wrote this few years ago, maybe his opinion has changed, IDK):

"(...) I recently learned that the new Ancestry Painting at 23andMe will include an Ashkenazi reference group. To be honest, I’m not sure there’s much value in using a genetically bottlenecked population of varied biogeographical origins as a reference in such things. Indeed, the Ashkenazi mainly descend from a few hundred founders, but carry Central European, Eastern European, Middle Eastern, African and probably many other admixtures, as evidenced by their genome-wide and uniparental markers.

That’s quite a problem, because due to their relative inbreeding, they produce strong ancestral clusters in many analyses, like in ADMIXTURE runs. However, these clusters are made up of allele frequencies from a wide range of sources and, paradoxically, it’s the relatively more outbred populations which contributed to the Ashkenazi gene pool at its formative stages that often end up showing Ashkenazi admixture in such tests, despite not having any. I've seen this happen regularly in my experiments."


Ive heard 23andme is the best reader for AJ.

Yeah, just like Living DNA is the best reader for British.

The problem is (as Davidski wrote), that a lot of people who don't have AJ ancestry end up scoring it on 23andMe, and a lot of people who don't have British ancestry end up scoring it on Living DNA.

For example I am 1/5 British according to LivingDNA:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?240185-Ethnic-Polish-LivingDNA-results

I haven't tried 23andMe yet, but all the Polish 23andMe results that I've seen score some minor AJ. And in other companies (like FTDNA) Polish people usually don't score AJ. Only on 23andMe.

[Figaro]

In some ways yes, but in other ways - not.

What Davidski wrote about this (he wrote this few years ago, maybe his opinion has changed, IDK):

"(...) I recently learned that the new Ancestry Painting at 23andMe will include an Ashkenazi reference group. To be honest, I’m not sure there’s much value in using a genetically bottlenecked population of varied biogeographical origins as a reference in such things. Indeed, the Ashkenazi mainly descend from a few hundred founders, but carry Central European, Eastern European, Middle Eastern, African and probably many other admixtures, as evidenced by their genome-wide and uniparental markers.

That’s quite a problem, because due to their relative inbreeding, they produce strong ancestral clusters in many analyses, like in ADMIXTURE runs. However, these clusters are made up of allele frequencies from a wide range of sources and, paradoxically, it’s the relatively more outbred populations which contributed to the Ashkenazi gene pool at its formative stages that often end up showing Ashkenazi admixture in such tests, despite not having any. I've seen this happen regularly in my experiments."



Yeah, just like Living DNA is the best reader for British.

The problem is (as Davidski wrote), that a lot of people who don't have AJ ancestry end up scoring it on 23andMe, and a lot of people who don't have British ancestry end up scoring it on Living DNA.

For example I am 1/5 British according to LivingDNA:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?240185-Ethnic-Polish-LivingDNA-results

I haven't tried 23andMe yet, but all the Polish 23andMe results that I've seen score some minor AJ. And in other companies (like FTDNA) Polish people usually don't score AJ. Only on 23andMe.

How much are these Polish users scoring in the AJ department?

Although I have some logical questions, I still think at the end of the day that my mom's 5.5% is a bit too high to be noise. 23andme seldom seems to show AJ noise beyond like 0.5%. I dunno.

[Carlito's Way]

she has jewish ancestry, shes a jew, you are a jew, we all sons of god

[Figaro]

Also, what you make of my mom's Balkan score with Croatia being given a dot? One could say it's just because Croats have a good amount of actual Slavic admixture and is reflecting shared ancestry between them and north slavs...although I've seen some of my moms cousin matches on there and they're seldom scoring beyond 1% Balkan. Have you seen Polish results on 23andme scoring high Balkan with specified reference populations?

Edit: That was meant as a reply to Peterski, but I'm a dolt and didn't do it properly.

[Figaro]

--duplicate post--

[Peterski]

How much are these Polish users scoring in the AJ department?

Between around 0.5% and around 2% usually.


Also, what you make of my mom's Balkan score with Croatia being given a dot?

It can be from your Polish or Ukrainian side because these groups (especially from certain regions) have some actual Balkan-like DNA. Also it is believed that ancestors of Croats came to Croatia from Western Ukraine or Southern Poland. So there is shared DNA.


Have you seen Polish results on 23andme scoring high Balkan with specified reference populations?

Yeah I've seen Polish results scoring high Balkan on various tests. Especially from South-Eastern Poland.

23andMe started showing these specific populations (4, 3 etc. dots) only recently, I haven't seen it like this yet.

[Meerkat]

Having Asheknazi as a result doesn't mean that you are descended from Asheknazi Jews, but it means that you share x amount of your DNA with Ashkenazi Jews.

The Samaritans in Israel score around 25% Ashkenazi, but they aren't descended from Asheknazi Jews; they just share that amount of their DNA with them.

If you're of West Asian, Southern European or Central European descent and have Ashkenazi Jewish as one of your results, it makes perfect sense and doesn't mean you have Jewish ancestors.

[Figaro]

she has jewish ancestry, shes a jew, you are a jew, we all sons of god

This guy gets it.

[Figaro]

Having Asheknazi as a result doesn't mean that you are descended from Asheknazi Jews, but it means that you share x amount of your DNA with Ashkenazi Jews.

The Samaritans in Israel score around 25% Ashkenazi, but they aren't descended from Asheknazi Jews; they just share that amount of their DNA with them.

If you're of West Asian, Southern European or Central European descent and have Ashkenazi Jewish as one of your results, it makes perfect sense and doesn't mean you have Jewish ancestors.

Eh, but 5.5% on 23andme though?

By that logic I should be seeing most Americans on there scoring AJ north of 1%. Not the case though.

It's all about context with these things, I suppose. My mom is otherwise all north euro. Unless there's a hidden Sicilian or something in the mix...lol..

[Peterski]

Can't believe I have to implement this, but: I have no motivation either way for or against that kind of ancestry in me. I just had a thought and wish to explore said thought more. Below are her results from 23andme, Wegene (I know, I know...), Eurogenes K13 and JTEST.

23andme has my mother at 5.5% Ashkenazi Jewish. Her current AC (on 50% spec):

Eastern European: 35.2% (four dots next to Belarus, three next to Russia, three next to Poland, two next to Hungary, one next to Ukraine, one next to Lithuania, one next to Slovakia)

Scandinavian: 9.0% (one dot next to Denmark)

French and German: 6.8% (two dots next to Germany)

Ashkenazi: 5.5%

British and Irish: 3.0% (one dot next to U.K.)

Balkan: 2.3% (one dot next to Croatia)

Italian: 0.4%

Broadly NW Euro: 24.2%

BRoadly South Euro: 3.0%

BRoadly European: 10.4%

East Asian and Native American: 0.2%

Siberian: 0.1%
Broadly: 0.1%

Importing to WEGENE (not great for Euros yet, but just gonna post it all the same):

Finnish/Russian: 50.33%
Spaniards: 29.12%
Balkan: 11.64%
British: 8.32%
Ashkenazi: 0.53% (Again, I know this site is mostly geared for East Asians, but AJ's are genetically a pretty distinct lot. Wouldn't it be at least somewhat higher here?)
Other: 0.02%

EUROGENES K13:
Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 37.28
2 North_Atlantic 32.84
3 West_Med 11.92
4 East_Med 6.83
5 West_Asian 5.66
6 South_Asian 1.77
7 Red_Sea 1.43
8 Siberian 1.39


Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.
13 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 South_Polish @ 5.615799
2 Hungarian @ 6.944128
3 Croatian @ 7.364062
4 East_German @ 7.437738
5 Ukrainian_Lviv @ 7.537293
6 Ukrainian @ 8.367209
7 Polish @ 9.347516
8 Austrian @ 9.387593
9 Moldavian @ 11.180273
10 Southwest_Finnish @ 12.414995
11 Southwest_Russian @ 12.811396
12 Russian_Smolensk @ 12.933526
13 Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 13.416420
14 Estonian_Polish @ 13.507435
15 Belorussian @ 13.618048
16 North_Swedish @ 14.169118
17 Serbian @ 15.586457
18 Finnish @ 15.714602
19 Estonian @ 16.162874
20 Kargopol_Russian @ 16.297646

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% East_German +50% South_Polish @ 2.123548


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Estonian_Polish +25% Orcadian +25% Romanian @ 1.106264


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++
1 Estonian + Estonian_Polish + Serbian + South_Dutch @ 0.994914
2 French + Hungarian + Lithuanian + Southwest_Russian @ 1.006805
3 Lithuanian + North_Italian + North_Swedish + Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 1.031910
4 East_German + Polish + Serbian + Southwest_Finnish @ 1.041756
5 Estonian + Russian_Smolensk + Serbian + South_Dutch @ 1.048694
6 Estonian_Polish + Hungarian + South_Dutch + Southwest_Russian @ 1.097012
7 Estonian_Polish + Estonian_Polish + Orcadian + Romanian @ 1.106264
8 Estonian + Lithuanian + Romanian + South_Dutch @ 1.110855
9 Estonian + French + Lithuanian + Serbian @ 1.130045
10 Estonian_Polish + Lithuanian + Romanian + Southwest_English @ 1.159342
11 Estonian + Estonian_Polish + Serbian + West_German @ 1.160213
12 Lithuanian + North_Italian + North_Swedish + Southwest_Russian @ 1.169903
13 Estonian_Polish + French + South_Polish + South_Polish @ 1.170097
14 Belorussian + Croatian + South_Dutch + South_Polish @ 1.170770
15 East_German + Russian_Smolensk + Serbian + Southwest_Finnish @ 1.178339
16 Estonian_Polish + Estonian_Polish + Hungarian + South_Dutch @ 1.185554
17 Estonian_Polish + Hungarian + Russian_Smolensk + South_Dutch @ 1.188112
18 Estonian_Polish + Estonian_Polish + Orcadian + Serbian @ 1.195627
19 Croatian + Estonian_Polish + South_Dutch + South_Polish @ 1.197117
20 Estonian_Polish + Lithuanian + Romanian + Southeast_English @ 1.197196


JTEST:

Jtest 4-Ancestors Oracle
This program is based on 4-Ancestors Oracle Version 0.96 by Alexandr Burnashev.
Questions about results should be sent to him at: Alexandr.Burnashev@gmail.com
Original concept proposed by Sergey Kozlov.
Many thanks to Alexandr for helping us get this web version developed.

Jtest Oracle population reference data revised 06 Nov 2012.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 SOUTH_BALTIC 20.93
2 NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO 20.21
3 EAST_EURO 19.16
4 ATLANTIC 18.91
5 WEST_MED 8.08
6 ASHKENAZI 4.44
7 WEST_ASIAN 3.60
8 EAST_MED 3.04
9 SOUTH_ASIAN 1.26


Finished reading population data. 78 populations found.
14 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 AT @ 9.713467
2 HU @ 9.770246
3 PL @ 10.138852
4 South_Finnish @ 11.383050
5 North_Swedish @ 11.439263
6 West_Russian @ 12.068996
7 UA @ 12.193340
8 South_&_Central_Swedish @ 12.816602
9 Ukrainian-Russian @ 13.229326
10 West_&_Central_German @ 13.580915
11 NO @ 13.712624
12 NL @ 14.526819
13 EE @ 14.824071
14 Belorussian @ 14.869775
15 DK @ 15.004644
16 East_Finnish @ 15.252179
17 Serbian @ 15.813924
18 East_Russian @ 15.866424
19 Orcadian @ 16.811895
20 English @ 17.273344

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% NL +50% Ukrainian-Russian @ 2.628475


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% NL +25% Ukrainian-Russian +25% Ukrainian-Russian @ 2.628475


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 AT + DK + West_Russian + West_Russian @ 2.119482
2 AT + IE + Ukrainian-Russian + West_Russian @ 2.184635
3 AT + East_Russian + Orcadian + PL @ 2.191941
4 AT + Scottish + Ukrainian-Russian + Ukrainian-Russian @ 2.197498
5 AT + Cornish + East_Russian + PL @ 2.243753
6 AT + Cornish + North_Russian + PL @ 2.251406
7 AT + Orcadian + Ukrainian-Russian + West_Russian @ 2.251611
8 AT + Scottish + Ukrainian-Russian + West_Russian @ 2.259606
9 AT + IE + Ukrainian-Russian + Ukrainian-Russian @ 2.264094
10 AT + East_Russian + IE + PL @ 2.279253
11 AT + IE + North_Russian + PL @ 2.286020
12 AT + East_Russian + Scottish + Ukrainian-Russian @ 2.308384
13 AT + East_Russian + Scottish + UA @ 2.308877
14 AT + East_Russian + PL + Scottish @ 2.316906
15 AT + North_Russian + Orcadian + PL @ 2.329704
16 Cornish + Ukrainian-Russian + Ukrainian-Russian + West_&_Central_German @ 2.334728
17 AT + DK + Ukrainian-Russian + West_Russian @ 2.358416
18 AT + Cornish + East_Russian + West_Russian @ 2.372596
19 Cornish + NL + Ukrainian-Russian + Ukrainian-Russian @ 2.390525
20 AT + Orcadian + West_Russian + West_Russian @ 2.392798

Can you post also Eurogenes K15?

Here are my father's results in Eurogenes K13 and in JTest for comparison:

K13 Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 40.22
2 North_Atlantic 33.02
3 West_Med 9.62
4 East_Med 9.00
5 West_Asian 5.10
6 Northeast_African 1.15

Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.
13 components mode.

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 South_Polish @ 4.808161
2 Ukrainian @ 7.768873
3 Ukrainian_Lviv @ 8.060468
4 Polish @ 8.084181
5 Croatian @ 9.294583
6 Hungarian @ 9.626110
7 Southwest_Russian @ 10.852315
8 East_German @ 10.878626
9 Belorussian @ 11.148017
10 Russian_Smolensk @ 11.183176
11 Estonian_Polish @ 11.544564
12 Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 11.566073
13 Southwest_Finnish @ 11.948655
14 Austrian @ 12.577616
15 Moldavian @ 13.285872
16 Finnish @ 14.335457
17 Estonian @ 14.432662
18 North_Swedish @ 15.088023
19 Kargopol_Russian @ 15.582841
20 Lithuanian @ 16.463976

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Belorussian +50% Hungarian @ 3.298952

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Belorussian +25% North_Swedish +25% Romanian @ 3.199207

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Austrian + Belorussian + Belorussian + Hungarian @ 3.082552
(...)

JTest Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 SOUTH_BALTIC 27.65
2 NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO 19.72
3 EAST_EURO 17.99
4 ATLANTIC 15.06
5 WEST_MED 7.23
6 EAST_MED 5.71
7 ASHKENAZI 4.45
8 WEST_ASIAN 1.93

Finished reading population data. 78 populations found.
14 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 PL @ 5.029197
2 UA @ 6.373619
3 West_Russian @ 9.029449
4 Ukrainian-Russian @ 9.223166
5 Belorussian @ 9.630213
6 HU @ 10.285487
7 EE @ 11.575357
8 Northwest_Russian @ 12.875160
9 South_Finnish @ 13.139285
10 AT @ 13.378474
11 LIT @ 14.347782
12 East_Russian @ 15.627172
13 East_Finnish @ 15.629024
14 Serbian @ 16.846336
15 North_Swedish @ 16.935259
16 North_Russian @ 17.614025
17 South_&_Central_Swedish @ 18.228880
18 Erzya @ 19.070446
19 West_&_Central_German @ 19.189959
20 NO @ 19.630112

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% AT +50% LIT @ 2.721473

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% AT +25% Belorussian +25% LIT @ 2.673144

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 AT + AT + Belorussian + LIT @ 2.673144
2 AT + AT + LIT + LIT @ 2.721473
3 AT + AT + LIT + Northwest_Russian @ 2.760451
4 Belorussian + EE + LIT + Tuscan @ 2.767850
5 EE + EE + LIT + Tuscan @ 2.791048
6 AT + Belorussian + HU + LIT @ 2.823594
7 AT + LIT + LIT + Serbian @ 2.837335
8 EE + LIT + LIT + Tuscan @ 2.838456
9 AT + PL + PL + UA @ 2.924006
10 LIT + LIT + South_Finnish + Tuscan @ 2.928062
11 DK + LIT + LIT + RO @ 2.970933
12 LIT + LIT + RO + West_&_Central_German @ 2.976469
13 AT + PL + PL + PL @ 2.978255
14 EE + LIT + Northwest_Russian + Tuscan @ 2.991933
15 LIT + LIT + Serbian + West_&_Central_German @ 3.034988
16 AT + Belorussian + PL + PL @ 3.051656
17 LIT + LIT + NL + RO @ 3.059873
18 AT + HU + LIT + PL @ 3.074710
19 AT + PL + UA + UA @ 3.079765
20 EE + LIT + PL + Tuscan @ 3.099466

[Figaro]

Between around 0.5% and around 2% usually.



It can be from your Polish or Ukrainian side because these groups (especially from certain regions) have some actual Balkan-like DNA. Also it is believed that ancestors of Croats came to Croatia from Western Ukraine or Southern Poland. So there is shared DNA.



Yeah I've seen Polish results scoring high Balkan on various tests. Especially from South-Eastern Poland.

23andMe started showing these specific populations (4, 3 etc. dots) only recently, I haven't seen it like this yet.

As far as I know, my mothers moms family were from Belarus. They had a polish last name and were Catholic by religion, although were probably all local genetically speaking. Does this change anything? I imagine northern ruthenian stock would have less Vlach DNA than a southern pole.

[Peterski]

My father scores 4.45 Ashkenazi on JTest. I wonder how much would he get on 23andMe, if anything.

[Figaro]

Can you post also Eurogenes K15?

Here are my father's results in Eurogenes K13 and in JTest for comparison:

K13 Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 40.22
2 North_Atlantic 33.02
3 West_Med 9.62
4 East_Med 9.00
5 West_Asian 5.10
6 Northeast_African 1.15

Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.
13 components mode.

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 South_Polish @ 4.808161
2 Ukrainian @ 7.768873
3 Ukrainian_Lviv @ 8.060468
4 Polish @ 8.084181
5 Croatian @ 9.294583
6 Hungarian @ 9.626110
7 Southwest_Russian @ 10.852315
8 East_German @ 10.878626
9 Belorussian @ 11.148017
10 Russian_Smolensk @ 11.183176
11 Estonian_Polish @ 11.544564
12 Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 11.566073
13 Southwest_Finnish @ 11.948655
14 Austrian @ 12.577616
15 Moldavian @ 13.285872
16 Finnish @ 14.335457
17 Estonian @ 14.432662
18 North_Swedish @ 15.088023
19 Kargopol_Russian @ 15.582841
20 Lithuanian @ 16.463976

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Belorussian +50% Hungarian @ 3.298952

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Belorussian +25% North_Swedish +25% Romanian @ 3.199207

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Austrian + Belorussian + Belorussian + Hungarian @ 3.082552
(...)

JTest Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 SOUTH_BALTIC 27.65
2 NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO 19.72
3 EAST_EURO 17.99
4 ATLANTIC 15.06
5 WEST_MED 7.23
6 EAST_MED 5.71
7 ASHKENAZI 4.45
8 WEST_ASIAN 1.93

Finished reading population data. 78 populations found.
14 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 PL @ 5.029197
2 UA @ 6.373619
3 West_Russian @ 9.029449
4 Ukrainian-Russian @ 9.223166
5 Belorussian @ 9.630213
6 HU @ 10.285487
7 EE @ 11.575357
8 Northwest_Russian @ 12.875160
9 South_Finnish @ 13.139285
10 AT @ 13.378474
11 LIT @ 14.347782
12 East_Russian @ 15.627172
13 East_Finnish @ 15.629024
14 Serbian @ 16.846336
15 North_Swedish @ 16.935259
16 North_Russian @ 17.614025
17 South_&_Central_Swedish @ 18.228880
18 Erzya @ 19.070446
19 West_&_Central_German @ 19.189959
20 NO @ 19.630112

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% AT +50% LIT @ 2.721473

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% AT +25% Belorussian +25% LIT @ 2.673144

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 AT + AT + Belorussian + LIT @ 2.673144
2 AT + AT + LIT + LIT @ 2.721473
3 AT + AT + LIT + Northwest_Russian @ 2.760451
4 Belorussian + EE + LIT + Tuscan @ 2.767850
5 EE + EE + LIT + Tuscan @ 2.791048
6 AT + Belorussian + HU + LIT @ 2.823594
7 AT + LIT + LIT + Serbian @ 2.837335
8 EE + LIT + LIT + Tuscan @ 2.838456
9 AT + PL + PL + UA @ 2.924006
10 LIT + LIT + South_Finnish + Tuscan @ 2.928062
11 DK + LIT + LIT + RO @ 2.970933
12 LIT + LIT + RO + West_&_Central_German @ 2.976469
13 AT + PL + PL + PL @ 2.978255
14 EE + LIT + Northwest_Russian + Tuscan @ 2.991933
15 LIT + LIT + Serbian + West_&_Central_German @ 3.034988
16 AT + Belorussian + PL + PL @ 3.051656
17 LIT + LIT + NL + RO @ 3.059873
18 AT + HU + LIT + PL @ 3.074710
19 AT + PL + UA + UA @ 3.079765
20 EE + LIT + PL + Tuscan @ 3.099466

Will post the K15 when I get access to the laptop. Good idea.

[Peterski]

As far as I know, my mothers moms family were from Belarus. They had a polish last name and were Catholic by religion, although were probably all local genetically speaking. Does this change anything? I imagine northern ruthenian stock would have less Vlach DNA than a southern pole.

Not really, not quite so. Based on the samples that I've seen Poles from Belarus are not the same as Belarusians.

On DNA Land a Belarusian user scored 98% North Slavic (typical for them AFAIK) while a Pole from Belarus 86%.

Pole from Belarus (parents from areas "A" and "B"):

http://i.imgur.com/luLrkpU.png

http://i.imgur.com/ToizhzM.png

The same Pole from Belarus - his Eurogenes K13:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 49.96
2 North_Atlantic 25.22
3 West_Med 9.26
4 West_Asian 7.57
5 East_Med 2.44
6 Red_Sea 2.29
7 East_Asian 1.49
8 Siberian 1.14

Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.
13 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Russian_Smolensk @ 4.562040
2 Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 5.054776
3 Estonian_Polish @ 5.560042
4 Southwest_Russian @ 5.634853
5 Belorussian @ 6.647513
6 Lithuanian @ 7.397152
7 Kargopol_Russian @ 7.570347
8 Polish @ 7.775328
9 Erzya @ 8.464643
10 Ukrainian @ 8.642402
11 Ukrainian_Lviv @ 9.497085
12 Estonian @ 10.565681
13 South_Polish @ 10.821135
14 East_Finnish @ 12.437167
15 Finnish @ 13.223006
16 Croatian @ 16.660561
17 Southwest_Finnish @ 16.689569
18 Moldavian @ 19.365084
19 La_Brana-1 @ 21.038567
20 Hungarian @ 21.515766

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Lithuanian +50% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 4.058275

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Lithuanian +25% Ukrainian_Belgorod +25% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 4.058275

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Erzya + Lithuanian + Russian_Smolensk + Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 3.654444
2 Erzya + Russian_Smolensk + Russian_Smolensk + Russian_Smolensk @ 3.665664
3 Erzya + Russian_Smolensk + Russian_Smolensk + Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 3.671223
4 Erzya + Lithuanian + Polish + Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 3.709517
5 Erzya + Lithuanian + Ukrainian_Belgorod + Ukrainian_Lviv @ 3.728252
6 Erzya + Lithuanian + Ukrainian_Belgorod + Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 3.745814
7 Erzya + Lithuanian + Russian_Smolensk + Ukrainian_Lviv @ 3.755054
8 Erzya + Lithuanian + Ukrainian + Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 3.794160
9 Lithuanian + Russian_Smolensk + Ukrainian_Belgorod + Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 3.808330
10 Erzya + Estonian_Polish + Russian_Smolensk + Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 3.860310

==============

It is also common for Poles from Belarus, Lithuania and Southern Latvia (Inflanty Polskie) to score "Estonian Polish".

I think that Poles in Estonia are descended from the same Polish stock as the ones in Latvia, Belarus and Lithuania.

[TeutonicBoyars]

...

5.5% seems like it'd be recent enough to fall in a genealogical paper trail, most likely a great-great to great grandparent.

Also what Peterski says is correct. (Actually, I'm the one that pointed this out to him initially :P) However, the threshold for what constitutes noise in AJ DNA seems to be blurry. For DNA tests like MyHeritage, FTDNA and Ancestry, I'd say the threshold for noise is much higher, ie. meaning I wouldn't consider it relevant unless the amount of DNA is greater than 3-5% or such, depending on the test.

From what I understand about 23andme is that they have the most reliable method for deducing Jewish DNA, but I haven't looked into the matter enough to know for sure what would constitute noise in their case. However, the thing I really hate about 23andme (and other testing companies for that matter) is their insistence on breaking down admixture to the fraction. It's incredibly misleading and I'm sure has sent a bunch of people on a misguided genealogical mission to uncover the ancestor with that ethnicity who may not even exist. In that regard, for me personally, anything under 0,5-1% in 23andme's case I consider to be almost certainly noise.

I am curious about your mother's ancestry though. I know you said she's around half eastern european and half northwestern european, but could you break down the percentages a bit more? For example was she exactly 50% EE, or more or less? And on her German side, was that ancestry from the eastern parts of Germany? I ask because on her Eurogenes K13 admixture she gets higher Baltic scores than North Atlantic scores which to me seems odd because I am also half Danish and half Russian, and my admixture gives me very different proportions to your mother who would seem to have comparable ancestry. So in that case it seems Eurogenes is overestimating her Eastern European admixture, but on the other hand, 23andme only gives her 35%, which seems to fall relatively short especially if she is half EE - maybe the rest of it got thrown into the broadly European or Balkan category, but I'm still not sure if it adds up enough. Would you mind posting a screenshot of her 23andme results?

[Peterski]

CordedWhelp's mom is 3/4 East European as you can see in 3 populations approximation in K13 (genetic distance to this approximation is very low, only @ 1.106264, so it's a very good fit for her):


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Estonian_Polish +25% Orcadian +25% Romanian @ 1.106264

Romanian (instead of something more northern) is due to a southern shift caused by Jewish admix. Estonian Polish represents her Belarusian Polish ancestry. Orcadian is part of her Germanic.

=====

By the way CordedWhelp, I think your mother's Ashkenazi is actually real rather than noise.

But it can also be from your East German, not necessarily from your Belarusian Polish side.

I mean, your German ancestors could also be partially Jewish.


5.5% seems like it'd be recent enough to fall in a genealogical paper trail, most likely a great-great to great grandparent.

It can be recent from one ancestor or remote but from many ancestors.

The percentage itself does not tell you anything about how recent it is.

But they have this Ancestry Timeline feature on 23andMe, don't they?

[Figaro]

5.5% seems like it'd be recent enough to fall in a genealogical paper trail, most likely a great-great to great grandparent.

Also what Peterski says is correct. (Actually, I'm the one that pointed this out to him initially :P) However, the threshold for what constitutes noise in AJ DNA seems to be blurry. For DNA tests like MyHeritage, FTDNA and Ancestry, I'd say the threshold for noise is much higher, ie. meaning I wouldn't consider it relevant unless the amount of DNA is greater than 3-5% or such, depending on the test.

From what I understand about 23andme is that they have the most reliable method for deducing Jewish DNA, but I haven't looked into the matter enough to know for sure what would constitute noise in their case. However, the thing I really hate about 23andme (and other testing companies for that matter) is their insistence on breaking down admixture to the fraction. It's incredibly misleading and I'm sure has sent a bunch of people on a misguided genealogical mission to uncover the ancestor with that ethnicity who may not even exist. In that regard, for me personally, anything under 0,5-1% in 23andme's case I consider to be almost certainly noise.

I am curious about your mother's ancestry though. I know you said she's around half eastern european and half northwestern european, but could you break down the percentages a bit more? For example was she exactly 50% EE, or more or less? And on her German side, was that ancestry from the eastern parts of Germany? I ask because on her Eurogenes K13 admixture she gets higher Baltic scores than North Atlantic scores which to me seems odd because I am also half Danish and half Russian, and my admixture gives me very different proportions to your mother who would seem to have comparable ancestry. So in that case it seems Eurogenes is overestimating her Eastern European admixture, but on the other hand, 23andme only gives her 35%, which seems to fall relatively short especially if she is half EE - maybe the rest of it got thrown into the broadly European or Balkan category, but I'm still not sure if it adds up enough. Would you mind posting a screenshot of her 23andme results?

Far as I know, the Eastern European (her mom) was all Polish-Belarusian. The AJ could possibly come from there, although it Could come from my moms German side. My mothers father was apparently half Danish half German. The German was apparently from Stuttgart or part of it. The only name I have from her dads German side is Roemisch. Apparently means Roman. Probably just means they were Catholic or something.

[Friends of Oliver Society]

I think you need to concentrate more on your results. Perhaps you should attend a... concentration camp.

Tee-hee... Tee-hee...

[Peterski]

Far as I know, the Eastern European (her mom) was all Polish-Belarusian. The AJ could possibly come from there, although it Could come from my moms German side. My mothers father was apparently half Danish half German. The German was apparently from Stuttgart or part of it. The only name I have from her dads German side is Roemisch. Apparently means Roman. Probably just means they were Catholic or something.

As Teutonic Boyars pointed out she is eastern-shifted for someone with 50% Germanic ancestry. In K13 Mixed Mode she consistently gets 3/4 Eastern (including Balkan / South-Eastern) + 1/4 Western results.

Can you post K15 results as well?

[TeutonicBoyars]

It can be recent from one ancestor or remote but from many ancestors.

The percentage itself does not tell you anything about how recent it is.

But they have this Ancestry Timeline feature on 23andMe, don't they?

That is correct, however I think it's far less likely. This would assume that his mother had several jewish ancestors way down the line, and she was able to inherit some incredibly small markers from each consistently and them have them all gradually accumulate to number. At the very least, I think the ancestor(s) in question would be traceable to somewhere around the early 1800s.

OP, what do the numbers look like with 90% confidence?

[Figaro]

As Teutonic Boyars pointed out she is eastern-shifted for someone with 50% Germanic ancestry. In K13 Mixed Mode she consistently gets 3/4 Eastern (including Balkan / South-Eastern) + 1/4 Western results.

Can you post K15 results as well?

Eurogenes K15-

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Sea 24.49
2 Baltic 21.32
3 Eastern_Euro 17.87
4 Atlantic 17.32
5 West_Med 8.47
6 West_Asian 4.00
7 East_Med 3.48
8 South_Asian 1.43
9 Red_Sea 1.01


Finished reading population data. 207 populations found.
15 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 South_Polish @ 6.726827
2 Hungarian @ 6.798502
3 Ukrainian @ 7.275259
4 Ukrainian_Lviv @ 7.574076
5 East_German @ 7.856135
6 Croatian @ 8.046914
7 Polish @ 8.552819
8 Southwest_Finnish @ 9.947948
9 Austrian @ 9.963789
10 Moldavian @ 10.079782
11 Finnish @ 10.401816
12 Russian_Smolensk @ 11.946306
13 East_Finnish @ 12.159730
14 Southwest_Russian @ 12.663094
15 Estonian @ 12.799252
16 Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 12.884933
17 Belorussian @ 13.580469
18 Estonian_Polish @ 13.590805
19 Serbian @ 14.349586
20 Kargopol_Russian @ 14.483822

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% East_German +50% Ukrainian @ 2.796258


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Croatian +25% Erzya +25% West_Norwegian @ 2.159669


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++
1 East_German + Erzya + Ukrainian + West_German @ 1.901167
2 Erzya + Hungarian + Southwest_English + Ukrainian @ 1.950838
3 East_German + Erzya + South_Polish + West_German @ 1.991540
4 East_German + Erzya + Polish + West_German @ 2.026668
5 Kargopol_Russian + Moldavian + Southwest_English + Ukrainian @ 2.087933
6 Erzya + Hungarian + Polish + West_German @ 2.114399
7 East_German + Erzya + Ukrainian_Lviv + West_German @ 2.129049
8 East_German + Erzya + South_Dutch + Ukrainian @ 2.144579
9 Croatian + Croatian + Erzya + West_Norwegian @ 2.159669
10 Erzya + Hungarian + Southwest_English + Ukrainian_Lviv @ 2.163267
11 East_German + East_German + Erzya + Hungarian @ 2.180848
12 Croatian + Kargopol_Russian + Ukrainian + West_German @ 2.195942
13 Croatian + Croatian + Kargopol_Russian + Norwegian @ 2.224370
14 Kargopol_Russian + Moldavian + Southeast_English + Ukrainian @ 2.224764
15 Hungarian + Kargopol_Russian + Polish + West_German @ 2.230694
16 East_German + Erzya + Russian_Smolensk + West_German @ 2.232043
17 North_Swedish + Polish + Serbian + Ukrainian @ 2.246083
18 Croatian + Erzya + Southwest_English + Ukrainian @ 2.251311
19 Erzya + Hungarian + Southeast_English + Ukrainian @ 2.255191
20 Croatian + Kargopol_Russian + Polish + West_German @ 2.255644

Eurogenes K36:


Amerindian -
Arabian 0.40
Armenian 0.45
Basque 2.15
Central_African -
Central_Euro 8.96
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 3.62
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 15.44
East_Med -
Eastern_Euro 14.51
Fennoscandian 7.52
French 4.95
Iberian 4.89
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 9.61
Malayan -
Near_Eastern -
North_African -
North_Atlantic 11.49
North_Caucasian 1.84
North_Sea 11.53
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian 0.39
South_Central_Asian 0.70
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural 1.32
West_African -
West_Caucasian -
West_Med 0.24

[Peterski]

Eurogenes K36:

Amerindian -
Arabian 0.40
Armenian 0.45
Basque 2.15
Central_African -
Central_Euro 8.96
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 3.62
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 15.44
East_Med -
Eastern_Euro 14.51
Fennoscandian 7.52
French 4.95
Iberian 4.89
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 9.61
Malayan -
Near_Eastern -
North_African -
North_Atlantic 11.49
North_Caucasian 1.84
North_Sea 11.53
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian 0.39
South_Central_Asian 0.70
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural 1.32
West_African -
West_Caucasian -
West_Med 0.24

^^^ That is where the supposed Jewish stuff is hiding I guess.

For comparison my parents (they don't score Jewish on FTDNA):

1. Father:

Basque 0.29
Central_African 0.05
Central_Euro 10.15
East_Balkan 8.33
East_Central_Euro 19.23
Eastern_Euro 13.70
Fennoscandian 11.05
French 5.28
Iberian 6.23
Italian 3.34
Near_Eastern 1.93
North_Atlantic 9.10
North_Sea 10.51
Volga-Ural 0.36
West_Caucasian 0.24
West_Med 0.17

2. Mother:

Arabian 0.65
Central_Euro 8.82
East_Balkan 5.10
East_Central_Euro 22.14
Eastern_Euro 14.63
Fennoscandian 11.95
French 6.50
Iberian 2.00
Italian 6.62
North_Atlantic 6.55
North_Caucasian 4.14
North_Sea 10.89

[Figaro]

^^^ That is where the supposed Jewish stuff is hiding I guess.

For comparison my parents (they don't score Jewish on FTDNA):

1. Father:

Basque 0.29
Central_African 0.05
Central_Euro 10.15
East_Balkan 8.33
East_Central_Euro 19.23
Eastern_Euro 13.70
Fennoscandian 11.05
French 5.28
Iberian 6.23
Italian 3.34
Near_Eastern 1.93
North_Atlantic 9.10
North_Sea 10.51
Volga-Ural 0.36
West_Caucasian 0.24
West_Med 0.17

2. Mother:

Arabian 0.65
Central_Euro 8.82
East_Balkan 5.10
East_Central_Euro 22.14
Eastern_Euro 14.63
Fennoscandian 11.95
French 6.50
Iberian 2.00
Italian 6.62
North_Atlantic 6.55
North_Caucasian 4.14
North_Sea 10.89

My mom doesn't even score in the Near Eastern there though, and your mother has slightly higher Arabian.

[Figaro]

Between that and our N1b1b haplogroup, I'm wondering if it's really just a little bit of stabilized Armenian ancestry and 23andme just saw me report in my description Euro descent, reads the results and goes "Eh, must be Jew".

Many Armenians in the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.

Just spit ballin'.

[Peterski]

My mom doesn't even score in the Near Eastern there though

Yeah but OTOH she does have some South Central Asian.

It is Eastern MENA component, it peaks in Pakistan, Iran.


Many Armenians in the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.

Yeah, that's also a possibility.

[Peterski]

Have you considered transferring your raw data to FTDNA?


(...)

K15 results:

My dad, FTDNA raw data:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 24.98
2 North_Sea 24.18
3 Atlantic 19.34
4 Eastern_Euro 15.86
5 West_Med 5.16
6 West_Asian 4.74
7 East_Med 4.53
8 Northeast_African 0.96
9 Oceanian 0.23
10 South_Asian 0.02

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Polish 4.58
2 Polish 5.85
(...)

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 65.5% Belorussian + 34.5% West_German @ 2.37
(...)

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Austrian +50% Estonian @ 2.915383

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Lithuanian +25% Romanian +25% West_Scottish @ 2.014763

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Danish + Lithuanian + Lithuanian + Romanian @ 1.940551

My mom, FTDNA raw data:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Sea 26.77
2 Baltic 23.96
3 Eastern_Euro 19.95
4 Atlantic 14.93
5 West_Med 5.53
6 West_Asian 4.42
7 East_Med 3.32
8 Amerindian 0.54
9 Red_Sea 0.24
10 South_Asian 0.17
11 Northeast_African 0.17

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 74.5% Ukrainian + 25.5% North_Swedish @ 3.13
2 59.5% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 40.5% North_Swedish @ 3.43
3 69.2% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 30.8% West_Norwegian @ 3.44
4 66.4% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 33.6% Norwegian @ 3.48
(...)

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Southwest_Russian +25% Ukrainian +25% West_Norwegian @ 3.499180
(...)

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Erzya + Ukrainian + Ukrainian + West_Norwegian @ 2.950516
(...)

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Ukrainian 5.5
2 South_Polish 5.83
3 Ukrainian_Lviv 6.22
4 Polish 6.72
5 Estonian 8.2
(...)

[Figaro]

Have you considered transferring your raw data to FTDNA?



K15 results:

My dad, FTDNA raw data:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 24.98
2 North_Sea 24.18
3 Atlantic 19.34
4 Eastern_Euro 15.86
5 West_Med 5.16
6 West_Asian 4.74
7 East_Med 4.53
8 Northeast_African 0.96
9 Oceanian 0.23
10 South_Asian 0.02

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Polish 4.58
2 Polish 5.85
(...)

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 65.5% Belorussian + 34.5% West_German @ 2.37
(...)

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Austrian +50% Estonian @ 2.915383

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Lithuanian +25% Romanian +25% West_Scottish @ 2.014763

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Danish + Lithuanian + Lithuanian + Romanian @ 1.940551

My mom, FTDNA raw data:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Sea 26.77
2 Baltic 23.96
3 Eastern_Euro 19.95
4 Atlantic 14.93
5 West_Med 5.53
6 West_Asian 4.42
7 East_Med 3.32
8 Amerindian 0.54
9 Red_Sea 0.24
10 South_Asian 0.17
11 Northeast_African 0.17

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 74.5% Ukrainian + 25.5% North_Swedish @ 3.13
2 59.5% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 40.5% North_Swedish @ 3.43
3 69.2% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 30.8% West_Norwegian @ 3.44
4 66.4% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 33.6% Norwegian @ 3.48
(...)

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Southwest_Russian +25% Ukrainian +25% West_Norwegian @ 3.499180
(...)

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Erzya + Ukrainian + Ukrainian + West_Norwegian @ 2.950516
(...)

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Ukrainian 5.5
2 South_Polish 5.83
3 Ukrainian_Lviv 6.22
4 Polish 6.72
5 Estonian 8.2
(...)

I'd have to look at prices. Benefits?

[Congolese Rice]

lol, really dont take Wegene seriously, it sucks more than ass for people of mostly non-east asian ancestry. That test doesnt even show me to have any middle eastern at all, and my african and amerindian is also way lower. Doesnt make alot of sense but then again it does cuz its not made for non asian ppls

[Figaro]

lol, really dont take Wegene seriously, it sucks more than ass for people of mostly non-east asian ancestry. That test doesnt even show me to have any middle eastern at all, and my african and amerindian is also way lower. Doesnt make alot of sense but then again it does cuz its not made for non asian ppls

You're absolutely right. I just put it up for shits and giggles, ya dig?

[Not a Cop]

Can't believe I have to implement this, but: I have no motivation either way for or against that kind of ancestry in me. I just had a thought and wish to explore said thought more. Below are her results from 23andme, Wegene (I know, I know...), Eurogenes K13 and JTEST.

23andme has my mother at 5.5% Ashkenazi Jewish. Her current AC (on 50% spec):


Easiest way to find it out is just to check her genetic relatieves list, if you will notice a high concentration of Jews it would mean that admixture is very real, however from my experience 23andme are incredibly good with Ashkenazi category, and noice level for it is really low, like 0,2-0,3%.

[Figaro]

Easiest way to find it out is just to check her genetic relatieves list, if you will notice a high concentration of Jews it would mean that admixture is very real, however from my experience 23andme are incredibly good with Ashkenazi category, and noice level for it is really low, like 0,2-0,3%.

The vast majority of her relative matches are AJ's, and the "top surnames" are all Cohens and Levis and all that jazz.

The idea I was playing with before was not "is she not AJ at all?" but rather "is 23andme combining AJ with some other riff-raff that went into eastern europe?"

:)

[Not a Cop]

The vast majority of her relative matches are AJ's, and the "top surnames" are all Cohens and Levis and all that jazz.

The idea I was playing with before was not "is she not AJ at all?" but rather "is 23andme combining AJ with some other riff-raff that went into eastern europe?"

:)

Well, we can't know for shure, but as for now i know of no better tool for detecting AJ ancestry than 23andme.

[Figaro]

Hmm interesting, this last few days 23andme, within her Eastern European category, made her top population "Russia" with three dots. Next two are Poland and Belarus at two dots each. Ironic, because the older categorization of Belarus being top with four stars was probably technically more accurate...lol

Edit: I'm aware of the relatedness between Belarusians and nearby southern Russians.

[Anglojew]

למה כל כך כועס?

[Figaro]

Just remembered this thread.

I still wonder from time to time about her Balkan score. It's small (2.5% ish), with Croatia specified. Maybe some Vlach ancestry?

I have matches that are 100% Polish and they don't score the Balkan she does...

Granted, yes, I have also seen Poles with 4-6% Balkan. Not saying she's an increadible outlier in that way. Perhaps all or most semi-excessive Balkan scores in Poles can be attributed to Vlach roots, via Gorals?

[Dragoon]

Whats your known ancestry?

Also dont worry about the results this isnt a perfected science, because the population groups are generally defined by people and vary between services.

When JTest is showing Jewish for just about everyone and no actual reason is given, it seems "suspicious". Just like all the dna providesr have the tribe in top position lol.

Not saying there is a conspiracy but anything is possible.

[Figaro]

Whats your known ancestry?

Also dont worry about the results this isnt a perfected science, because the population groups are generally defined by people and vary between services.

When JTest is showing Jewish for just about everyone and no actual reason is given, it seems "suspicious". Just like all the dna providesr have the tribe in top position lol.

Not saying there is a conspiracy but anything is possible.

I feel ya.

My mother is 1/2 Polish (partly Poles in Belarus, some perhaps from Poland proper), 1/4 Danish, rest is German+ 1/16 or so AJ.

I made a point to mention that at least part of my Polish ancestry is from Belarus, because it seems obvious to me my mom's Slavic side seems to be a tad bit more Eastern-shifted than perhaps the median Pole from Poland today.

[Figaro]

Duplicate. Not sure how that happened....

[Insuperable]

Honorary Balkanigger.

[rothaer]

When 23andMe states 5.5% AJ at 50% confidence level then 5.5% +/- 0.2 % will be applicable.

I've dealt quite a bit with that. Btw. 23andMe in that context calculates the proportions based on SNPs, not on cM. There might be small differences between those two possible approaches.