Does European Identity or Unity Exist?

[Charlie Bass]

I don't really see it.There is no uniform European culture,history, or genetics.

What have Sicilians or Cypriots and Greeks to do with Saamis or Scandinavians?They are closer to Middle Easterners than them.

There is a strong animosity between Western Europeans/Germanics and Eastern Europeans/Slavs who are considered inferior by Germanics.

Also Northern vs Southern European is quite frequent.

At the other side you have the troublesome third world of Europe the Balkans.

European White Unity is just a fake unity who is mostly pushed by colonial mutts.

[Mraz]

Tell em where you from Charlie!

H2QL1Sy_9Ag

[Sultan Suleiman]

White Unity is just a fake unity who is mostly pushed by colonial mutts.

Pretty much this.

[SKYNET]

I don't really see it.There is no uniform European culture,history, or genetics.

What have Sicilians or Cypriots and Greeks to do with Saamis or Scandinavians?They are closer to Middle Easterners than them.

There is a strong animosity between Western Europeans/Germanics and Eastern Europeans/Slavs who are considered inferior by Germanics.

Also Northern vs Southern European is quite frequent.

At the other side you have the troublesome third world of Europe the Balkans.

European White Unity is just a fake unity who is mostly pushed by colonial mutts.


What the fuck is that, man? Who r u? :confused: this problem is for white people, not african.

[Mraz]

White unity is when French and Germans have problems to deal with and need the help of their untermensch neighbours that they despise in normal time, the "Russia will save us all" is their tag.

[Charlie Bass]

What the fuck is that, man? Who r u? :confused: this problem is for white people, not african.

I am just raising a question.European is defined only by geography.How can you put Balkans and Scandinavians in the same group when they are closer to Middle Easterners than them?

[aimar]

no, there isn't.
Europe is too diverse to ever be a true unit

[SKYNET]

I am just raising a question.European is defined only by geography.How can you put Balkans and Scandinavians in the same group when they are closer to Middle Easterners than them?


http://manhattaninfidel.com/__oneclick_uploads/2009/10/europe.jpg

[Übermensch]

Well, we can say Europe form a ''cultural bloc'' (as well racial) when is compared to other macro-cultural regions (like India,MENA,China,Africa ecc), some areas are the ''hearth of Europe'' and other are more peripheral but an European culture do exist but non necessary a ''unity'' (like China for example).

[Insuperable]

There will always be people who will see physical differences between the North and the South. So, no I do not think that there could be any white unity and quite frankly it is not important

[Furor]

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/094/340/Nigga_posting_in_a_troll_thread.jpg?1318992465

You come here in a european preservationist forum to tell us europe doesn't exist?
http://social.bioware.com/uploads_user/1390000/1389451/23644.jpg
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lxviglmr441qglmhi.gif

[Talvi]

Only when its convenient.

For example a lot of people here see Estonia as a lame, pointless place that belongs behind the Iron Curtain away from real civilization unless they need some back up.

[Minesweeper]

I am just raising a question.European is defined only by geography.How can you put Balkans and Scandinavians in the same group when they are closer to Middle Easterners than them?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/48/Haplogroup_I.png/350px-Haplogroup_I.png

[spaz]

I'm sure most people are aware that Europe is diverse and not one single unit. Still, certain regions of Europe have countries that share similarities. The borders for all countries have changed a lot in the past thousand years.

I think you're talking about white Americans with certain views not Europeans.

[Lábaru]

European White Unity is just a fake unity who is mostly pushed by colonial mutts.

Not doubt that you are an American(latin,USA, Canadian is the same) xD xD xD all obsessed with white colour.

[Contusion]

Not doubt that you are an American xD xD xD

What of it?

[Pretan]

White European?

Europeans only come in one colour Charlie.

[Gaijin]

You are still here, Africoon?
You must be the Administrator's new best friend...

Yes, there does exist European unity.
You are just another idiot trying to divide and cause a dearth on it.

W9clJixB9Rw

[Stefan]

Europe is a geopolitical entity primarily, then an ethnocultural entity, and then a racial one.. As a geopolitical entity there has been a strong history and cohesion among its peoples, which have led to ethnic similarities. Due to christendom, for the most part, as well as beforehand because of geographical barriers Europe has been racially segregated from Sub-Sahara Africa and East-Asia, with minor influence here and there, relative to other Caucasoid populations and other populations of the world. The only populations more homogenous than Europeans are found in Australia and the Americas.

[SilverKnight]

Just like there's no 'African unity', the same with Europe and people of other genetic groups. Only individual countries and in rare cases regions unite.

[kabeiros]

Even if to your untrained black eyes southern Europeans seem similar to middle easterners, they are much closer to northern Europeans (culturally, genetically and historically). We are not like US Americans or Chinese, but I as a Greek feel closer to a French or Swede, than to a Turk or Iraqi (and I think that a Norwegian feels closer to me than to an Iranian or Syrian). Christianity has shaped Europe, just like Islam has shaped middle east and north Africa...

[Contra Mundum]

White unity didn't make sense in the past, but since many European countries are facing similar demographic problems, perhaps white unity is a good thing for them today. The French and Germans have much more in common than either of them have with their immigrant population.

[Stefan]

European History

http://www.collegeboard.com/student/testing/ap/sub_eurohist.html


The study of European history since 1450 introduces students to cultural, economic, political, and social developments that played a fundamental role in shaping the world in which they live. Without this knowledge, we would lack the context for understanding the development of contemporary institutions, the role of continuity and change in present-day society and politics, and the evolution of current forms of artistic expression and intellectual discourse. In addition to providing a basic narrative of events and movements, the goals of the AP program in European History are to develop (a) an understanding of some of the principal themes in modern European History, (b) an ability to analyze historical evidence and historical interpretation, and (c) an ability to express historical understanding in writing.


As for genetics:
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/files/genmapeuropeA.jpg

[StonyArabia]

Cyproits cluster with Palestinians,Lebanese, and Syrians than with any European population, this includes mainland Greeks as well. White Muslims like Bosniaks, Albanians, Pomaks, ect are often left out, despite being genetically more so European because of a different religion, yet a Levantine people are seen as European or White, it's bs.

As for White unity it only exist in cyberspace and not even then, look at Skadi they hate Southern Europeans.

[SilverKnight]

European History

http://www.collegeboard.com/student/testing/ap/sub_eurohist.html




As for genetics:
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/files/genmapeuropeA.jpg

Looks practically like the political map of Europe
You can see an evident ethnic/ genetic correlation :p

[Stefan]

this includes mainland Greeks as well. .

http://strangemaps.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/geneticmapofeurope.jpg

[StonyArabia]

http://strangemaps.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/geneticmapofeurope.jpg

I was saying Cyproits don't cluster with mainland Greeks, as they are basically Hellenized Lebanese/Syrian/Palestinians.

[kabeiros]

...
1. Cyprus is a very small island with a population of only 800.000, they don't affect the European similarity
2. Culturally, Cypriots are identical to Greeks, and much closer to Europe than the middle east

[Stefan]

Ah I see, then it was a misunderstanding on my part. Anyway, there are various factors that determine whether or not somebody is European. Race is a significant one, but culture and political ideology are important as well. It isn't solely race, but that doesn't make race less important.

[Gustavsson]

In this agenda, I totally agreed with you.
All Whites are not same Whites.
We can't unite since we're different people originally.

[kabeiros]

I was saying Cyproits don't cluster with mainland Greeks, as they are basically Hellenized Lebanese/Syrian/Palestinians.They have nothing in common with this Arabs you mention, the archaic native population of Cyprus was similar to Anatolians and Levantines, but they mixed with Greeks later. Learn your history, boy

[StonyArabia]

They have nothing in common with this Arabs you mention, the archaic native population of Cyprus was similar to Anatolians and Levantines, but they mixed with Greeks later. Learn your history, boy

They were not Anatolians but Levantines just like Lebanese, Syrians and Palestinians. If you mean Arabian Arabs of course, but even their blood is present in Cyprus, it was part of the Rashdun Caliphate and various Arabian empires, until the Crusades.

Anyways if they are European so are Bosinaks and Albanians more so since they actually look it.

[Balmung]

You're just mad because Europeans are closer to each other than you are with Africans. Real Africans don't even like you bro. You should hear how much shit the Nigerians here talk about you.

[Stefan]

You're just mad because Europeans are closer to each other than you are with Africans. Real Africans don't even like you bro. You should hear how much shit the Nigerians here talk about you.

Even pure Africans are the most diverse group on the planet. Of course there will be confusion of the cohesiveness of Europeans when such similarities aren't evident in Africa.

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/files/2011/04/SandaweFinal_htm_6c5acab21.jpg

http://spittoon.23andme.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/gsa-lillymendel-world.png

[accepthetruth]

They have nothing in common with this Arabs you mention, the archaic native population of Cyprus was similar to Anatolians and Levantines, but they mixed with Greeks later. Learn your history, boy

I think you need to learn your history, Lebanese are Phoenicians, not arabs, and a fair amount of Palestinians and Syrians are Phoenician as well. I think you should know this, being that Phoenicians are the ones who introduced to your people the Alphabet, and Greeks and Phoenicians were pretty tight until the time of the Persian empire.

Here's some maps of the Levant, bro, different from Arabia (home of arabs)
http://www.raqs.co.nz/me/graphics/map_levant.jpg
http://www.throneworld.com/oathofempire/geographica/levantine_coast.gif

[Anarch]

I don't really see it.There is no uniform European culture,history, or genetics.

What have Sicilians or Cypriots and Greeks to do with Saamis or Scandinavians?They are closer to Middle Easterners than them.

There is a strong animosity between Western Europeans/Germanics and Eastern Europeans/Slavs who are considered inferior by Germanics.

Also Northern vs Southern European is quite frequent.

At the other side you have the troublesome third world of Europe the Balkans.

European White Unity is just a fake unity who is mostly pushed by colonial mutts.

Europe is a civilisation. Greater Europe consists of the descendents of European Christendom, which is: Celts, Germanics, Latins, Hellenics, Finno-Ugrics and Slavs. Put more simply: it consists of those whose forebears came under the Catholic and Orthodox Churches within the geographical confines of Europe prior to the Reformation. There's a great deal of racial cohesion, but at the end of the day, the facts need not be decided by genetic analysis. We know who we are, and you aren't of us.

[kabeiros]

I think you need to learn your history, Lebanese are Phoenicians, not arabs, and a fair amount of Palestinians and Syrians are Phoenician as well. I think you should know this, being that Phoenicians are the ones who introduced to your people the Alphabet, and Greeks and Phoenicians were pretty tight until the time of the Persian empire.
Lebanese have some Phoenician ancestry but they later mixed with the Arabs who spread their religion in the middle east, Cypriots escaped this influence. I think that Sephardi Jews have more Phoenician ancestry than Lebanese or Palestinians (who mixed with Arabs and north Africans).
As for the alphabet, the Greeks modified the Phoenician alphabet -which had no vowels- and was it self a modified version of the Egyptian.

[StonyArabia]

Lebanese have some Phoenician ancestry but they later mixed with the Arabs who spread their religion in the middle east, Cypriots escaped this influence. I think that Sephardi Jews have more Phoenician ancestry than Lebanese or Palestinians (who mixed with Arabs and north Africans).
As for the alphabet, the Greeks modified the Phoenician alphabet -which had no vowels- and was it self a modified version of the Egyptian.

Cyproits did not they were part of the Rashidun Caliphate, and later Uymmad and Abbasid Caliphates until the Crusades

[Comte Arnau]

Another American telling Europeans what we are like.

I've travelled and lived all over Europe and never felt out of place. I'm not sure whether I'd feel so at home out of this continent, but I guess I wouldn't.

[member]

Europeans are more concerned with the differences hat exist between them rather than similarities. That is why the question "what unites us" is hard to answer well.

[SKYNET]

Another American telling Europeans what we are like.

I've travelled and lived all over Europe and never felt out of place. I'm not sure whether I'd feel so at home out of this continent, but I guess I wouldn't.



please don't confuse. He's just an afro-American. ;)

[The Lawspeaker]

please don't confuse. He's just an afro-American. ;)

A yank is a yank. :rolleyes:;)

[Siberyak]

Dalton fury is banned for Hi "extreme" racialist views but Charlie bass can troll endlessly?

[arcticwolf]

Another American telling Europeans what we are like.

I've travelled and lived all over Europe and never felt out of place. I'm not sure whether I'd feel so at home out of this continent, but I guess I wouldn't.

Yeah they know it all. Same here. Depends where outside of Europe. North or South America I have no problem at all. Africa or Asia, that's a total cultural shift and it feels different. As long as you are within European derived culture, no major issues.

[arcticwolf]

Dalton fury is banned for Hi "extreme" racialist views but Charlie bass can troll endlessly?

You didn't get the memo? :laugh:

[Incel King]

I don't really see it.There is no uniform European culture,history, or genetics.

What have Sicilians or Cypriots and Greeks to do with Saamis or Scandinavians?They are closer to Middle Easterners than them.

There is a strong animosity between Western Europeans/Germanics and Eastern Europeans/Slavs who are considered inferior by Germanics.

Also Northern vs Southern European is quite frequent.

At the other side you have the troublesome third world of Europe the Balkans.

European White Unity is just a fake unity who is mostly pushed by colonial mutts.

http://vocaroo.com/i/s0bsYLmZnxWQ

Balkans was historically cradle of European culture. A lot of world important scientists were Serbs, like Nikola Tesla, Mihajlo Pupin, Milutin Milanković, Mileva Marić and etc. Over and above it's most beautiful part of the World.

[Osprey]

Just because Europeans are not a single group doesn't mean that they should mix with Blacks.

[The Lawspeaker]

Just because Europeans are not a single group doesn't mean that they should mix with Blacks.

Two completely different and unrelated things.

[Balmung]

A yank is a yank. :rolleyes:;)

Not fair.

Its like a Turk speaking for a German :P

Our Afro Americans may have been born and raised here, but they still are of an entirely different social, intellectual, & cultural level than the typical American white. We live in the same country, are miles apart. He is just an afrocentrist who does not speak for the ideals of most Americans.

[The Lawspeaker]

Not fair.

The word yank is used in European countries to describe any American.

[ficuscarica]

The word yank is used in European countries to describe any American.

I would never call an Afro-American yank.

[Graham]

Just like there's no 'African unity', the same with Europe and people of other genetic groups. Only individual countries and in rare cases regions unite.

That's true. Languages, history, borders & religions(ethnic background)were more significant. The Black white thing is more American.


African migration is new to many countries in Europe. The white unity is more frequant in areas with a varation of races.

Only seen proper European pride in the Ryder cup Golf. Go team Europe! :D

[The Lawspeaker]

I would never call an Afro-American yank.

You're one of the few. Here "yank" is used for any American.

[ficuscarica]

You're one of the few. Here "yank" is used for any American.

I don´t know. I am not even sure if I would call the majority of Afro-Americans Americans. An American, to me, is a Euro descending person.

[arcticwolf]

I would never call an Afro-American yank.

That is correct. Yankee is any white American who lives outside of The South. Though some will argue that even that is not specific enough and that Whites from North West, West are technically not Yankees.

[Stefan]

You're one of the few. Here "yank" is used for any American.

Really? Black-Americans are Yanks in Europe? I'm fairly sure that's not the case in the UK at least? I thought it was particularly specific to Anglo-Americans there, and hence has a familial connotation (Americans are traitorous cousins :P.) Here, Yankees are just Northern Anglos and those who have assimilated into them, which I'm sure you already know of course.

[The Lawspeaker]

Really? Black-Americans are Yanks in Europe?
The difference in race and North and South is more American. Here when people talk about America in a derogatory way they refer to them as "those yankees".

[Balmung]

Really? Black-Americans are Yanks in Europe? I'm fairly sure that's not the case in the UK at least? I thought it was particularly specific to Anglo-Americans there, and hence has a familial connotation (Americans are traitorous cousins :P.) Here, Yankees are just Northern Anglos and those who have assimilated into them, which I'm sure you already know of course.

Still.

The term sounds pretty stupid to me, because it implies all Americans are the same, when it is one of the most diverse countries in the world (even more than Brazil) although we don't have their porportion of mulattoes (gratefully).

A newly Mexican American immigrant, has little in common with some WASP family from the suburbs. Same can be said for some Russian family in a Russian community in Sacramento. I certainly don't automaticaly feel "close" to all Americans. I think most people who think this way have not been here.

If anything the term sounds like it would be more acceptable for Australia.

[Han Cholo]

In Mexico, African Americans are never called "gringos" alone which is the most common slur for (white) Americans. However, if you want to add to the offense you might call them "negros gringos"

[Mechanolater]

Embedding just ruined my post. I'm going to go eat some bad eggs, now...

[Graham]

The difference in race and North and South is more American. Here when people talk about America in a derogatory way they refer to them as "those yankees".

God Damn Yankee doodle dandies. :shakefist:speechless-smiley-0

[accepthetruth]

Lebanese have some Phoenician ancestry but they later mixed with the Arabs who spread their religion in the middle east, Cypriots escaped this influence. I think that Sephardi Jews have more Phoenician ancestry than Lebanese or Palestinians (who mixed with Arabs and north Africans).
As for the alphabet, the Greeks modified the Phoenician alphabet -which had no vowels- and was it self a modified version of the Egyptian.

You must note that the christian portion of Lebanon's population were defiant to the arab expansion . The Maronites of lebanon are of phoenician ancestry.

[Balmung]

I would never call an Afro-American yank.

Japan separates the African Americans from the whites as well. I've noticed it in their media. Then again, Japan has a set ideal on what is American and what is western. Minorities aren't true Americans to them :lol:

....I'm trying to think of a Japanese game that had an African American in it. Well there was Resident Evil 5, wait no, she was a real African.

There was a black guy in Final Fantasy, but then again one could speculate that he was actualy Black-Japanese since everyone in FF was Asian.

[StonyArabia]

The Sammi are more European than Sicilians mixed with Arabs and Berbers and Cyproits Hellenized Levantines. The Sammi are not much different from other Scandinvians they just have some small Siberian admix but their genetic core is Northern Euro can't get more Euro than that. The Sammi look European often with blond hair and blue/green eyes, well Cyproits are swarthy dark skinned and would not look out of place in the West bank or Beirut. Sicilians can pass in Tunisia, Libya, and Algeria and even Morocco, so it's easily who is more European genetically the Sammi.

[Comte Arnau]

The difference in race and North and South is more American. Here when people talk about America in a derogatory way they refer to them as "those yankees".

Yeah. Here people don't make a difference between North or South either. An American is a ianqui.

[SKYNET]

http://www.alexkurtagic.info/Afro-American,%20concentrating.jpg
Am I yankee? WTF?

[Frosty]

Is there really a White European Unity?
Every day i drive through Sofia city,Bulgaria/EU member since 2007/I question myself the same.Seeing all trash scattered around,dogs feces all over the pavements and the endless number of cigarette studs on every bus stop,I can't help myself from comparing this with some more prominent European capitals.
Some says,its because we are 'poor",but I think it's not a question of money,but more a question of mentality.
How people with such a different mental state and world view points,can form a unity?:confused:I don't think it's possible...

[The Lawspeaker]

I don't think there is much unity between related people like Germanics.. much less Europe as a whole.

[Damião de Góis]

We don't use the word "yankee" here or any form of translation. We use "american" and that applies to all.

[Sarmatian]

I don't really see it.There is no uniform European culture,history, or genetics.

What have Sicilians or Cypriots and Greeks to do with Saamis or Scandinavians?They are closer to Middle Easterners than them.

There is a strong animosity between Western Europeans/Germanics and Eastern Europeans/Slavs who are considered inferior by Germanics.

Also Northern vs Southern European is quite frequent.

At the other side you have the troublesome third world of Europe the Balkans.

European White Unity is just a fake unity who is mostly pushed by colonial mutts.

You shall not be concerned my negro friend. Europeans are famous for their abilities to solve most complicated geopolitical situations... which they created by themselves of course. In the face of common threat we can quickly reconcile our differences and join our efforts to defeat a common enemy.

You should just continue to enjoy being a part of privileged social group (while its lasts) and stop bothering yourself with such insignificant dilemmas. Don't be too harsh on your brain, leave such complicated matters to us :rolleyes:

[Incal]

We don't use the word "yankee" here or any form of translation. We use "american" and that applies to all.

We use gringo :D

[hipaware]

I would never call an Afro-American yank.

I was sure called a Yank when I was in Jamaica, lol. Ive traveled outside of the US, and I'm only seen as a American or Black American. To ppl outside of the US, an American is just an American no matter the race.

[hipaware]

Just because Europeans are not a single group doesn't mean that they should mix with Blacks.


Not fair.

Its like a Turk speaking for a German :P

Our Afro Americans may have been born and raised here, but they still are of an entirely different social, intellectual, & cultural level than the typical American white. We live in the same country, are miles apart. He is just an afrocentrist who does not speak for the ideals of most Americans.

But the difference between a Turk living,in Germany, and an Afro American is..

The Turk doesn't speak the same language nor shares the same general culture with the native German as an Afro American shares with a White American.

At the end of the day, an Afro American has more in common culturally with a White American than anyone else, and vice versa.

[Sunphq]

Not fair.

Its like a Turk speaking for a German :P

No it isn't, that's a terrible analogy. An African American is as American as you are, probably more. Especially if you're a second or third generation one; a Johnny-come-lately. Their ancestors have been on American soil since the 16 and 17 hundreds.

You might as well as said it's like a Syrian speaking for a German, or any other arbitrarily-chosen ethnic group. Weren't you the guy going on about how Americans don't identify as anything other than American? But, in your opinion, your African-American counterparts are obviously somehow less American, or not quite the same as. You make no sense. :coffee:

[el22]

Is there really a White European Unity?

No, there isn't!
And it has nothing to do with some being more performant and others more trouble-makers, or different cultures, or different religions.

About the difference in performance or culture, I wouldn't be so quick to attribute it to ethnicity/DNA, but to the fact that different nations have traversed different historical paths.
And at some point humanity will leave religiosity behind.

Even if we erase cultural and religion differences with imagination, we still won't identify ourselves as European first, but with the ethnicity we pertain.

Europe is composed of many ethnicities, with clear boundaries, with long history behind, and with long-term-memory too.

This is why United Europe can never be something similar to United States. We are more like an entire planet rather than a single state. But this is not a bad thing.

[Ausência Forçada]

What do you mean with White European Unity? if you mean cooperation between European nations that share a common race, civilization and that are facing a non european colonization/immigration/invasion problem, from that prespective there/must be unity, never federalism or other non-senses.

[Food]

http://www.abload.de/img/1279369172756pyfz.png

[Arsen_]

Peoples are not being united by race, by culture or by any other kind of similarities. Peoples are being united only by danger which threatens them. And serious threat can be expected only from serious rivals. And in that sense serious danger for peoples of European origin can be expected only from other Europeans. In other words peoples of European origin can be annihilated only by other peoples of European origin.

Actually only competition and cruel confrontation between peoples of European origin in last centuries made possible the development and rise of non-European peoples.

And I am afraid that the unity among peoples of European origin will be real only when it will be absolutely useless.

[Hochmeister]

Hello all,

We also call Americans Янки (Yankee), but it's rather outdated. Пиндосы (Pindosy or Pindostan for the USA) is more common :)

As for the topic, I have heard of 5 different races in Europe: Nordic (+ Phalic), Eastern, Western, Dinaric and East Baltic. What the modern science says about it?

[Insuperable]

Hello all,

We also call Americans Янки (Yankee), but it's rather outdated. Пиндосы (Pindosy or Pindostan for the USA) is more common :)

As for the topic, I have heard of 5 different races in Europe: Nordic (+ Phalic), Eastern, Western, Dinaric and East Baltic. What the modern science says about it?


It rejected it. ( "it" as old anthropology )

[Food]

What have Sicilians or Cypriots and Greeks to do with Saamis or Scandinavians?They are closer to Middle Easterners than them.


What do you have to do with european pride?
Stop trolling and enjoy your bussiness with your hot negress.
http://s3.amazonaws.com/picable/2009/04/14/878939_Funny-face-of-Obama_620.jpg

[Hochmeister]

It rejected it. ( "it" as old anthropology )

Well, does it mean that all Europeans are the one race? Is there a gene which unites Europe?
Was it rejected by means of a serious scientific research or due to the politically motivated reasons?

[Insuperable]

Well, does it mean that all Europeans are the one race? Is there a gene which unites Europe?
Was it rejected by means of a serious scientific research or due to the politically motivated reasons?

It was rejected by means of scientific research, yes and only uninformed think that it has something to do with political reasons.
There are articles on the Internet which talk about transistion from the old puysicsl anthropology to modern biological molecular anthropology and discusses about arguments for and against.
Do not expect me to define if there is a certain race ( not to mention subrace since not always does genotype=phenotype due to "chaotic" nature because of unknwon variables, environmental factors... and the ones which are the most "everyday" obvious factors like getting fat or skinny, getting old, harsh or mild way of life...) when it still can not be defined precisely since the concept of race is shown to be more fluid than discrete. However the fact is that Europeans will make one apex (genetic cluster as in 23andme plot), East Asian will make an another and Africans will make a third apex on a genetic triangle and the rest would be somewhere inbetween. Scientifically one can not define what would be the boundaries of a certain race (cluster), that is defining what would be a certain race and because of that the concept of race is further defined as a fluid one and depends on other factors.
To tell you the truth sometimes I believe that there are patterns which define European subraces but sometimes I do not.

[LoLeL]

Since many members overuse "WE EUROPEANS..." on this forum, I like to read their clarification about that European thing.

1. How is Portugal related to Belarus? Netherlands vs. Bulgaria? Albania vs. Finland? Estonia vs. Scotland?

2. Why a Scandinavian should feel close to a Balkanite? Does a Spanish have anything to do with an Ukrainian?

3. I talked to some British nationalists and they said they are against mass immigration of both Euros and non-Euros because both groups are a threat to their identity. Some said they prefer Euros to non-Euros, but others said they prefer immigrants who accept assimilation and integration regardless of the background, e.g. an Indian immigrant > Polish one.

4. Is an Aussie closer to a Brit, or European X to a Brit?

5. How do you feel if European X migrate to your country and try to establish a colony there and weaken your national/ethnic identity, language, and culture? For example, if Germans decide migrate to Ireland and Germanize there, is it OK because Germans are European? What's the difference between them and non-Euro invaders?

IMO, stuff like White nationalism, "I'm White/European so I can go and live in any white country from Europe to North America and Australia" and "We whites/europeans..." only sound cool on internet and they don't really work in real world.

[TEUTORIGOS]

Since many members overuse "WE EUROPEANS..." on this forum, I like to read their clarification about that European thing.

1. How is Portugal related to Belarus? Netherlands vs. Bulgaria? Albania vs. Finland? Estonia vs. Scotland?

2. Why a Scandinavian should feel close to a Balkanite? Does a Spanish have anything to do with an Ukrainian?

3. I talked to some British nationalists and they said they are against mass immigration of both Euros and non-Euros because both groups are a threat to their identity. Some said they prefer Euros to non-Euros, but others said they prefer immigrants who accept assimilation and integration regardless of the background, e.g. an Indian immigrant > Polish one.

4. Is an Aussie closer to a Brit, or European X to a Brit?

5. How do you feel if European X migrate to your country and try to establish a colony there and weaken your national/ethnic identity, language, and culture? For example, if Germans decide migrate to Ireland and Germanize there, is it OK because Germans are European? What's the difference between them and non-Euro invaders?

IMO, stuff like White nationalism, "I'm White/European so I can go and live in any white country from Europe to North America and Australia" and "We whites/europeans..." only sound cool on internet and they don't really work in real world.

No duh, white nationalism is retarded since there has never been a white nation there is even some tensions in the UK between Scotland and England etc... so and so forth.

[TheMaestro]

if Germans decide migrate to Ireland and Germanize there, is it OK because Germans are European?

This would never happen, how could you even Germanize something, the only big problem of imigration is different culture, and culture is pretty regional, for example Scandianvians are pretty close, etc southern Europeans or Central Europeans or Eastern European. The only thing that people are afraid of is an imigrant who goes to a country, he lacks of knowledge of the language, has different culture, traditions and values.

[LoLeL]

No duh, white nationalism is retarded since there has never been a white nation there is even some tensions in the UK between Scotland and England etc... so and so forth.

In the end, people prefer their own identity and culture to any other thing.

[Graham]

It is actually the vast amount of differences that makes Europe Europe and the volume of different cultures that people identify as European. Different kind of identity as none would say I'm European first they would list their own country or ethnicity.

[Peterski]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLIDoGFGhnU

[Teutone]

Not for me, I dont care about most nations and other ethnicties on this continent.

Only coorperation there should be is trade and control of the European borders.

[Jana]

It does exist, but nobody would put if before their own ethnicity.

Only case of European solidarity would happen with external threat to Europe coming from non-Europeans, other than that Europeans always warred with each other.

[Damião de Góis]

It only exists when dealing with non-euros.

[Myanthropologies]

It only exists when dealing with non-euros.

Pretty much, and that is why it is problematic.

[Teutone]

Pretty much, and that is why it is problematic.

What you mean?

[Myanthropologies]

I don't have a problem with European identity at all, and I respect people who identify as European. I just have two issues:


1) Racism:Almost all "European Pride" pages I have seen spout anti-black, anti-refugee, and anti-miscegenation bullshit. If you were against Middle Easterners coming into Europe and intermixing, you're a little too late. Middle Eastern farmers already came during the Neolithic and altered the "European" gene pool. You also have ANE with you, which is significantly shared with Amerindians.
2) "Europeans" as we know them today are a product of the 19th century: There is no "European" gene pool because Europeans aren't genetically monophyletic. You have peripheral European groups like Sicilians, the Maltese, Greeks, Finns, Russians, Ashkenazi Jews, and Cypriots who share significantly more ancestry with some non-Europeans than they do with Northwestern Europeans, Central Europeans, and even some South Europeans (this is only the case for Sicilians vs Spaniards). People need to stop spouting racist bullshit while claiming that these groups are purely European under the same breath, because you know you're going to get dragged by people who are sick of racist bs. If you don't want people de-legitmatizing their identities as "Europeans," then stop putting other groups of people down.

Second of all, the modern "European" identity is a product of the 19th century. "Europe's" borders were even being heavily disputed in the 60s.


While this geographical boundary between Europe and Asia is now seldom questioned and is often assumed to be either wholly natural or too trivial to worry about, the issue still provokes occasional interest. In 1958, for example, a group of Russian geographers argued that the true divide should follow "the eastern slope of the Urals and their prolongation the Mugodzhar hills, the Emba River, the northern shore of the Caspian Sea, the Kumo-manychskaya Vpadina (depression) and the Kerchenski Strait to the Black Sea"--thus placing the Urals firmly within Europe and the Caucasus within Asia. Other writers have elected to ignore formal guidelines altogether, placing the boundary between the two "continents" wherever they see fit. The 1963 edition of the Encyclopedia Britannica, for example, defines the Swat district of northern Pakistan as "a region bordering on Europe and Asia"--"Europe" perhaps connoting, in this context, all areas traversed by Alexander the Great. Halford Mackinder, on the other hand, selected a "racial" criterion to divide Europe from Africa (although not from Asia), and thus extended its boundaries well to the south: "In fact, the southern boundary of Europe was and is the Sahara rather than the Mediterranean, for it is the desert land that divides the black man from the white."
https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/books/first/l/lewis-myth.html?_r=1

[Myanthropologies]

What you mean?

I mean that it is problematic that an identity pretty much entirely revolves around being racist and keeping migrants out only!

[Gwydion]

Historically there was an identity of Western Christendom and then wider Christendom, which is coincidentally corresponded to what we call Europe. While there were always squabbles and differences between the different groups, there used to be (in the West) a unifying ur-culture which included Roman Catholicism, chivalry, knighthood, common literary and mythological motifs (Arthur, the Grail, etc.), common architectural and artistic trends, etc. While the Eastern European/Byzantine/Orthodox world was outside the aforementioned Western world, still the commonality as Europeans and Christians bonded them together when confronted with more foreign invaders, particularly the Saracens, Turks, etc. Both branches also shared a common heritage of inspiration from Classical Antiquity, figures like Plato and Aristotle, etc.

Later these would secularize but there remained a general commonality between European nations, especially when they understood themselves in relation to non-Europeans. It was actually probably the nationalism and Romanticism of the 19th century which sharpened the divides between various Europeans to a greater extent than what had been seen in earlier history.

So the answer is "partly" I suppose, a mix of yes and no depending on context. That said in our globalized world where European man is often under siege by non-Europeans (with the whole narrative of evil whitey, etc.), I think there should be more pan-European identity and cooperation.

[Teutone]

I mean that it is problematic that an identity pretty much entirely revolves around being racist and keeping migrants out only!

Whats racist or bad about want to preserve Europe a continent for European people? We as Europeans are the smallest populated continent by size and population not consindering Australia which was a "European" colony that is now about the mayority non European, same with the USA and North America.

[8888]

No. European ethnicities and a sense of common belonging always existed since their ethnogenesis, the modern concepts of ''nation'', ''white race'' and ''Europe/West'' are recent. Men in the past identified more as part of their ethnos (what includes culture, identity and religion) than as abstract things like ''White'' or ''European''. Certainly some ethnos can be closer to others and share common things (e.g. Portuguese and Croatians, despite diifferent language groups share some characteristics), but overall abstract identities like ''European'' in the modern sense didn't existed until the beggining of the Romantic Age.

[Myanthropologies]

Whats racist or bad about want to preserve Europe a continent for European people? We as Europeans are the smallest populated continent by size and population not consindering Australia which was a "European" colony that is now about the mayority non European, same with the USA and North America.

There's something wrong with it because it was European countries and Western societies that freely ventured and colonized other countries, but when people from other countries are dying and need help, "Europeans" give them an inhumane hand, and treat them like they're barely human! My cousin was shot and nearly kidnapped by police last week, but she can't get out of the messy life she was born into because you guys believe in separatism and "Europeans first," rather than "humans first." I have a problem with an artificially created identity that only comes out for anti-immigration purposes, yes. The reasoning for that is because other identities have culture and warmth. "European" culture is colonizing half the planet, arguing that other groups of humans are inferior and blaming refugee or Jews on every issue in Europe.

[Teutone]

There's something wrong with it because it was European countries and Western societies that freely ventured and colonized other countries, but when people from other countries are dying and need help, "Europeans" give them an inhumane hand, and treat them like they're barely human! My cousin was shot and nearly kidnapped by police last week, but she can't get out of the messy life she was born into because you guys believe in separatism and "Europeans first," rather than "humans first." I have a problem with an artificially created identity that only comes out for anti-immigration purposes, yes. The reasoning for that is because other identities have culture and warmth. "European" culture is colonizing half the planet, arguing that other groups of humans are inferior and blaming refugee or Jews on every issue in Europe.

Its our fault we let you in, thats the root of the Problem. Europe has no history of multi-culturalism and European nations trought history were ethno-states or states that had several ethnicities, but EUROPEAN-WHITE ones.

About "our" colonial days, it is what it is, why should we be ashamed of our ancestors that were able to conquer every inch of this Planet and rule over it?

If you feel inferior because of what Europeans say on internet forums, well not our problem. This is an European Forum, euro centric, ment to praise Erupean cultures and identities, dont get the point of non Euros that get triggered here.

[Myanthropologies]

Its our fault we let you in, thats the root of the Problem. Europe has no history of multi-culturalism and European nations trought history were ethno-states or states that had several ethnicities, but EUROPEAN-WHITE ones.

About "our" colonial days, it is what it is, why should we be ashamed of our ancestors that were able to conquer every inch of this Planet and rule over it?

If you feel inferior because of what Europeans say on internet forums, well not our problem. This is an European Forum, euro centric, ment to praise Erupean cultures and identities, dont get the point of non Euros that get triggered here.

okay

[StonyArabia]

It exist only on forums, or dealing with non-Euros and even then there is no true unity.

[Universe]

It exist only on forums, or dealing with non-Euros and even then there is no true unity.

European union?

[StonyArabia]

European union?

To extent, but it's not true unity, but I honestly don't care. Euros only unite in North America or Australia under the term White, but in Europe each ethnicity is for it's own. Russians don't care about Bulgarians for example, they are also both Orthodox and Slavs.

[Universe]

To extent, but it's not true unity,

It is, actually. What else would it be?

[Papastratosels26]

Not so much,there is a lot nationalism.

[Leo Iscariot]

Pan-Europeanism is an E.U. pipedream.

[StonyArabia]

It is, actually. What else would it be?

an economic union, plus it's crypto-German empire

[Universe]

an economic union, plus it's crypto-German empire

It's more than an economic union. And its member states entered this union at their own will.

[akondrel]

The current model of the European Union is not really European, but globalist. It represents an enlightened conception expressed in a multicultural and multiracial project with a universalist character.

[Suinthila]

No, it doesn't

[Tooting Carmen]

I think myanthropologies more-or-less sums it up.

[Autrigón]

No

[Fredd]

ofc :)

[Megadorian]

Likely not

[Visage pâle]

Europe is a geographical expression nothing more.

[StonyArabia]

No

[Autrigón]

NoYes

[Smeagol]

Yes, all Europeans (or nearly all) are part of a superior civilization that needs to be defended from the foreign orc-like hordes.

[Lauχum]

Nope.

[Nurzat]

there are sometimes big differences in mindset and lifestyle even within the same country between opposed regions, so it is normal there'll be such differences on the continent but Europe can live as a country I think, as the US does, if it will give up on national countries and become a country itself. there is no need for a common language or such to have a country - Europe can be a multi-ethnic multi-racial country if it will keep a common aim, common goals, common currency etc. the difference between different nations is anyway less real than perceived, as people are people.. one who traveled and lived for a while in different places will know that

[Teutone]

there are sometimes big differences in mindset and lifestyle even within the same country between opposed regions, so it is normal there'll be such differences on the continent but Europe can live as a country I think, as the US does, if it will give up on national countries and become a country itself. there is no need for a common language or such to have a country - Europe can be a multi-ethnic multi-racial country if it will keep a common aim, common goals, common currency etc. the difference between different nations is anyway less real than perceived, as people are people.. one who traveled and lived for a while in different places will know that

What you dont understand, a. educated guy from Norway which comes from a developed country, his ancestors fought for, has no desire to share a nation with a underdevoloped nation like for example moldova.

We are tribes in Europe and thats a good thing, and we need our borders, our laws and our capabilities to put in use for technical and other advantes for our own people and nation.

[Benyzero]

I believe in it sort of, thats one of the reason why I registered, to see how people view particular topics. Im not nationalist in that manner , if someone has no intent to harm my people,or identity and share similar opinion in this Im open minded to a certain level.

[Nurzat]

What you dont understand, a. educated guy from Norway which comes from a developed country, his ancestors fought for, has no desire to share a nation with a underdevoloped nation like for example moldova.

We are tribes in Europe and thats a good thing, and we need our borders, our laws and our capabilities to put in use for technical and other advantes for our own people and nation.

there is no "own people and nation". I am not a nationalist so we cannot agree on many things I suppose. I also don't think a country belongs to the people there exclusively and forever.. nations are obsolete as people understood them in the past two centuries.. time to get past that ;)

[ДенисМентус]

come on please, we Europeans DO SHARE OUR BLOOD with each other. The unity exists, the diversity is in colors and it's BEATIFUL, we have it, and other people want it too ;) be proud!

[ДенисМентус]

any arab / mixed race / negroid shouldn't even answer to this lmao

[Samnium]

Genetically, yes
Phenotypically, yes (there's still something "european" underlying in all Euro phenos)
Culturally, no and yes
Historically, no

[nittionia]

Right now Italy is the most united

[ioan assen]

Yes, European identity exists and at present supersedes the national one. Everyone, at least within EU, has a certain nationality and then he/she is also European and it is felt/real whenever you travel abroad within Europe. Obviously many do not know about it (or do not want to know about it cause its clashes in a way with the nationalism), do not think about it or think its simply granted, but there is already unity and bigger connection between Europeans simply because of EU and its regulations. Part of that is also the common monetary union and eventually a common military. I think eventually EU would evolve into at least a confederation. Of course there is a big difference between the European nations themselves due to (biggest) communism, collapse of the economy in the East etc (mainly West and East). However EU has benefited equally the West and the East and the statistics do not lie here. Even instinctively the European nations know its better to stick together (with the exception of UK). In a global world, Europe would do better united. India has more regional difference within itself than Europe. And there is unifing ideas that Europeans share which stem from ancient Greece, Roman empire (continental law is VERY inspired by Roman law) and the idea of Europe and Europeans is not really new.

[Stotnik369]

No.

In fact, there are 2-3 civilizations in Europe:

- Western - all Catholic and Protestant countries
- Orthodox (the Balkans and former USSR without the Baltic countries)
- some Muslim pockets (Bosnia, Albania, Kosovo, Western Macedonia...)

[Stotnik369]

Yes, all Europeans (or nearly all) are part of a superior civilization that needs to be defended from the foreign orc-like hordes.

As a Croat, I don't have anything to do with serbs, russians, greeks, bulgarians, romanians, Ukrainians (except the Western ones), albanians, montenegrins, macedonians etc.
They're absolutely different (especially in cultural terms) from Western, Central and Northern Europeans.

[Nurzat]

What you dont understand, a. educated guy from Norway which comes from a developed country, his ancestors fought for, has no desire to share a nation with a underdevoloped nation like for example moldova.

We are tribes in Europe and thats a good thing, and we need our borders, our laws and our capabilities to put in use for technical and other advantes for our own people and nation.

that is a valid point as well, no one is right or wrong, it is all about how people want to live, in what type of community, so people should be able to choose, even deeper than national level, at regional level

[catgeorge]

I identify as Greek first.. everything else is just a made up fake ethnicity to appease woke politicians.

I identify more with Greek people than the Greek state.

[Ford]

Aside from diplomacy, there is minimal to no unity or common identity.

[Ford]

As a Croat, I don't have anything to do with serbs, russians, greeks, bulgarians, romanians, Ukrainians (except the Western ones), albanians, montenegrins, macedonians etc.
They're absolutely different (especially in cultural terms) from Western, Central and Northern Europeans.

You think you have more in common with Scandinavians than Balkanites ?

[Crn Volk]

As a Croat, I don't have anything to do with serbs, russians, greeks, bulgarians, romanians, Ukrainians (except the Western ones), albanians, montenegrins, macedonians etc.
They're absolutely different (especially in cultural terms) from Western, Central and Northern Europeans.

Anything? I'm sure you understand Serbs and other ex-Yugos just fine, maybe even a little Bulgarian...

[Stotnik369]

Anything? I'm sure you understand Serbs and other ex-Yugos just fine, maybe even a little Bulgarian...

I understand eg. russian quite much, but mine and russian mindsets are two universes apart.

[SouthDutch7991]

Are we all too different to be considered just one thing? Yes.
Are we more similar to each other than to anyone else, to the point that you can define someone or something as "european" or "non-european" culturally and genetically? Yes.

With the exception of some minor diaspora along the natural borders, Europe is, relative to other groups, a very tight and well-defined geographical genetic-cluster.

[Stotnik369]

Are we more similar to each other than to anyone else, to the point that you can define someone or something as "european" or "non-european" culturally and genetically?

Only without eastern ''christians'' (serbs, greeks, russians, romanians, bulgarians...).

[SouthDutch7991]

Only without eastern ''christians'' (serbs, greeks, russians, romanians, bulgarians...).

The only good Christians left in my opinion, and it would be ridiculous to assert that a slight difference in denomination relative to a 2000 year old religion makes someone less European than anyone else. Orthodox and Catholics are closer than Catholics and Protestants at the least.

[Stotnik369]

The only good Christians left in my opinion

LOL

Highest abortion rates in Europe (http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abortion/mapeuropeabrate3.gif)

Lowest life expectancy in Europe (http://jakubmarian.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/life-expectancy.jpg)

They (orthodox countries, especially Russia, Ukraine, Moldova, Belarus) also have the highest divorce and homicide rates in Europe.



and it would be ridiculous to assert that a slight difference

The slight differences???

MEMENTO:

Western things which were not existed in orthodox world:

1. POLITICAL AND CONSTITUTIONAL development: Medieval appearance of parliaments (The parliament is a legislative body(!), DO NOT CONFUSE with the “councils of monarchs” which existed since the very beginnings of human history), the estates of the realm, the clergy, the nobility, and the commoners,

2. Local SELF GOVERNMENT status of big royal/imperial cities, which are the direct ancestors (the continuity) of modern local self governmental systems. Do not confuse the local self governments with the so-called city states. Sovereign city states were the earliest form of states in Human history ( For example: Sumerian city states), and that legal concept has nothing common with the self-governments/local governments of cities within a country or within an Empire.

3. ECONOMY: The medieval appearance of banking systems and social effects and status of urban bourgeoisie, the absolute dominance of money-economy (when the vast majority of trade based on money and the taxes customs duties were collected in money) from the 12th -13th century, instead of the former primitive bartel-based commerce (barter dominated the economies orthodox world until the 17-18th centuries.)

4. HIGHER EDUCATION: The medieval appearance of universities and the medieval appearance of SECULAR intellectuals,

5. CULTURE: Knights, the knight-culture, chivalric code, (and the technological effects of crusades from the Holy Land,)

Music and literature: courtly love, troubadours, Gregorian chant, Ars nova, Organum, Motet, Madrigal, Canon and Ballata, Liturgical drama, Novellas,

medieval western THEATER: Mystery or cycle plays, morality and passion plays, which developed into the renaissance theater, the direct ancestor of modern theaters.

Philosophy: Scholasticism and humanist philosophy,

6. The medieval usage of Latin alphabet and medieval spread of movable type printing,

7. TECHNOLOGY: The guild system is an association of artisans or merchants, which organized the training education, and directed master's exam system for artisians. Due to the compulsory foreign studies of the artisian master's candidates, the guilds played key role in the fast spread of technologies and industrial knowledge in the medieval Western World.

8. The defence systems & fortifications: The spread of stone/brick castle defense -systems, the town-walls of western cities from the 11th century. (In the orthodox world, only the capital cities had such a walls . The countries of the Balkan region and the territory of Russian states fell under Ottoman/Mongolian rule very rapidly - with a single decesive open-field battle - due to the lack of the networks of stone/brick castles and fortresses in these countries. The only exception was the Greek inhabited Byzantine territories which were well fortified.)

9. FINEARTS and ARCHITECTURE: western architecture, sculpture paintings and fine-arts: the Romanesque style, the Gothic style and the Renaissance style.

The orthodox church buildings and „palaces(?)” were very little, they had primitive structure and poor decorations, their style were influenced by oriental non-European arabic, persian and Syrian influenced Byzantine ornamentics.

10.The renaissance & humanism , the reformation and the enlightenment did not influenced/affected the Orthodox (Eastern European) countries.

11. Before 1870, the industrialization that had developed in Western and Central Europe and the United States did not extend in any significant way to the rest of the world. In Eastern Europe, industrialization lagged far behind, and started only in the 20th century. Their infrastructural and economic development was also very very slow, and many determinant factors of modern civilization - as we called them as civilized way of life - (railways, the electrification of cities, drain & sewer systems, water pipe systems, spread of tap water and bathrooms, telecommuncations etc... spread many-many decades (60-80 years) later.


Orthodox and Catholics are closer than Catholics and Protestants at the least.

LOL

https://i0.wp.com/fcpp.org/wp-content/uploads/Western_world.png?fit=1200%2C616&ssl=1

Catholics + Protestant = the Western world a.k.a European civilization with their offshots in the USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand.

[Stotnik369]

..

[Dušan]

Thank God I am Eastern Orthodox.
I am so proud on our culture and architecture.

[Stotnik369]

Thank God I am Eastern Orthodox.
I am so proud on our culture and architecture.

Even muslims and some remoted cannibal tribes are proud of their ''culture'' and ''civilization'', so what? :P

[Jana]

I like new member Stotnik369 :thumbsup: :D

[Satem]

I like new member Stotnik369 :thumbsup: :D

Yeah, calling place of birth of Western civilization Eastern just because of Orthodox religion is so likeable:rolleyes:

[Jana]

Yeah, calling place of birth of Western civilization Eastern just because of Orthodox religion is so likeable:rolleyes:

Well I disagree, because birthplace of western Christian civilisation was among Franks and Charlemagne, in my opinion.

Greco-Roman civilisation was something separate, more of a Pan-Med than European civilisation. Nevertheless, obviously western Christianity was heavily influenced by it, yet it grew to something different.

To me birth of (western Christian) Europe was surely with Charlemagne.

[Tooting Carmen]

I am glad not everyone has fallen for the con that Eastern Europe is more 'moral' and 'God-fearing' than Western Europe. Something similar happens within the US too - quite a few people both on the Left and the Right (albeit for different reasons) romanticise Blacks and Hispanics as being more moral and God-fearing than Whites, even though Blacks in particular have worse rates of things like divorce and out-of-wedlock births than do Whites.

[SouthDutch7991]

LOL

Highest abortion rates in Europe (http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abortion/mapeuropeabrate3.gif)

Lowest life expectancy in Europe (http://jakubmarian.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/life-expectancy.jpg)

They (orthodox countries, especially Russia, Ukraine, Moldova, Belarus) also have the highest divorce and homicide rates in Europe.




The slight differences???

MEMENTO:

Western things which were not existed in orthodox world:

1. POLITICAL AND CONSTITUTIONAL development: Medieval appearance of parliaments (The parliament is a legislative body(!), DO NOT CONFUSE with the “councils of monarchs” which existed since the very beginnings of human history), the estates of the realm, the clergy, the nobility, and the commoners,

2. Local SELF GOVERNMENT status of big royal/imperial cities, which are the direct ancestors (the continuity) of modern local self governmental systems. Do not confuse the local self governments with the so-called city states. Sovereign city states were the earliest form of states in Human history ( For example: Sumerian city states), and that legal concept has nothing common with the self-governments/local governments of cities within a country or within an Empire.

3. ECONOMY: The medieval appearance of banking systems and social effects and status of urban bourgeoisie, the absolute dominance of money-economy (when the vast majority of trade based on money and the taxes customs duties were collected in money) from the 12th -13th century, instead of the former primitive bartel-based commerce (barter dominated the economies orthodox world until the 17-18th centuries.)

4. HIGHER EDUCATION: The medieval appearance of universities and the medieval appearance of SECULAR intellectuals,

5. CULTURE: Knights, the knight-culture, chivalric code, (and the technological effects of crusades from the Holy Land,)

Music and literature: courtly love, troubadours, Gregorian chant, Ars nova, Organum, Motet, Madrigal, Canon and Ballata, Liturgical drama, Novellas,

medieval western THEATER: Mystery or cycle plays, morality and passion plays, which developed into the renaissance theater, the direct ancestor of modern theaters.

Philosophy: Scholasticism and humanist philosophy,

6. The medieval usage of Latin alphabet and medieval spread of movable type printing,

7. TECHNOLOGY: The guild system is an association of artisans or merchants, which organized the training education, and directed master's exam system for artisians. Due to the compulsory foreign studies of the artisian master's candidates, the guilds played key role in the fast spread of technologies and industrial knowledge in the medieval Western World.

8. The defence systems & fortifications: The spread of stone/brick castle defense -systems, the town-walls of western cities from the 11th century. (In the orthodox world, only the capital cities had such a walls . The countries of the Balkan region and the territory of Russian states fell under Ottoman/Mongolian rule very rapidly - with a single decesive open-field battle - due to the lack of the networks of stone/brick castles and fortresses in these countries. The only exception was the Greek inhabited Byzantine territories which were well fortified.)

9. FINEARTS and ARCHITECTURE: western architecture, sculpture paintings and fine-arts: the Romanesque style, the Gothic style and the Renaissance style.

The orthodox church buildings and „palaces(?)” were very little, they had primitive structure and poor decorations, their style were influenced by oriental non-European arabic, persian and Syrian influenced Byzantine ornamentics.

10.The renaissance & humanism , the reformation and the enlightenment did not influenced/affected the Orthodox (Eastern European) countries.

11. Before 1870, the industrialization that had developed in Western and Central Europe and the United States did not extend in any significant way to the rest of the world. In Eastern Europe, industrialization lagged far behind, and started only in the 20th century. Their infrastructural and economic development was also very very slow, and many determinant factors of modern civilization - as we called them as civilized way of life - (railways, the electrification of cities, drain & sewer systems, water pipe systems, spread of tap water and bathrooms, telecommuncations etc... spread many-many decades (60-80 years) later.



LOL

https://i0.wp.com/fcpp.org/wp-content/uploads/Western_world.png?fit=1200%2C616&ssl=1

Catholics + Protestant = the Western world a.k.a European civilization with their offshots in the USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand.

Typical Balkan, always losing their head and infighting with people more similar to them than any other people even within europe. This kind of infighting will kill us all. I wonder what kind of myths your parents told you about the serbs in the 90s.

[catgeorge]

Must be crazy to think we pay any attention to what Croats think.

[Ayetooey]

Not really, and there's some Europeans I feel no commonality with. Historically Europe was more like 2-3 regions. There's a vague sense of Europeanness based around religion/Indo-European language (excluding a few nationalities), but that's partly thanks to islamic/turkic/arabic invasions of Anatolia/Mena/North Africa. Had these regions stayed Christian then the concept of European could have evolved to mean something different.

[Veslan]

Common European Identity used to exist, and it was mostly based on christianity to be honest (also on a common Greco-Roman cultural influence to a lesser extent, especially Roman law and Greek art and myths). As Europe started to become more secular, and a few European nations such as Bosniaks and Albanians mass converted to Islam during the Ottoman rule, this sort of identity started to become less meaning. Nowadays "europeaness" is pretty much a slogan pushed by pro-EU liberals who try to force the idea that "european values" are basically liberal democracy, tolerating gays, multi-culti, globohomo etc. however it is historically so wrong and cringeworthy that I don't even think it's worth debunking. Another argument for European unity could be a racial one, although it is very arbitral because many Southern Europeans could pass as Arabs and vice versa. We should remember that, without any irony, "White" is indeed a social construct, while Caucasoid race extents to MENA and even Somalia, so it is not exclusively European.

[Daco Celtic]

No.

In fact, there are 2-3 civilizations in Europe:

- Western - all Catholic and Protestant countries
- Orthodox (the Balkans and former USSR without the Baltic countries)
- some Muslim pockets (Bosnia, Albania, Kosovo, Western Macedonia...)

The idea that Protestant religions, especially evangelical Christianity, have more in common with Catholicism than Orthodox Christianity is a complete farce.

Just like Catholicism?


https://youtu.be/8kkgccLG1Gg

[Arūnas]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feliks_Koneczny


For example, Koneczny claimed that in the Latin civilization, ethics is the source of law. If some laws are not ethical, then they are changed. Government is judged on the basis of its adherence to ethics. The law is of dual nature, divided into public and private spheres. Religion is autonomous, independent and separated from the state. Individuality, self-rule and decentralization are highly valued. Knowledge is empirical.

In the Byzantine civilization, organized religion is dependent on the state. In this type of civilization all means are justified to achieve political goals. Politicians follow ethics in private life, but in public they are judged by their skills, not by ethics. The legal government has absolute authority and its orders are not doubted. Germany under Bismarck was an example of that type of civilization.

In the Turanian civilization, the government is the source of law and ethics and stands above the law and ethics. The ruler cannot be doubted. Koneczny considered Russia under the Tsars as an example of this type of civilization.

The Jewish civilization considers the law most important. The law is the source of ethics. The law cannot be changed. However, the same law can be differently interpreted, which leads to ethical relativism. Similarly to the Brahmin or Hindu civilization, it is sacral, with religion playing a central role. According to Koneczny, one of the elements of Jewish civilization is a belief in the superior role of one nation or race. Communist states, despite their atheism, are also products of Jewish civilization.

[Jana]

Typical Balkan, always losing their head and infighting with people more similar to them than any other people even within europe. This kind of infighting will kill us all. I wonder what kind of myths your parents told you about the serbs in the 90s.

What is your IQ, 70?

*has no arguments to reply thus goes around with ad hominem

What you are quoting wasn't written by this new Croat member above, it was written by former Hungarian user Stears. And it seems you have 0 arguments to refute it.

In the end, you are not a European, but typical dumb Yank with lack of education.

[Jana]

Must be crazy to think we pay any attention to what Croats think.

You seem triggered.

[Jana]

The idea that Protestant religions, especially evangelical Christianity, have more in common with Catholicism than Orthodox Christianity is a complete farce.

Theologically no, culturally yes.

[JamesBond007]

No, English unity does not exist let a lone European unity. English identity exists but not unity as only wars unite the English but the English have gotten good at war over time. So, I would venture to say no.

[Varda]

LOL

Highest abortion rates in Europe (http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abortion/mapeuropeabrate3.gif)

Lowest life expectancy in Europe (http://jakubmarian.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/life-expectancy.jpg)

They (orthodox countries, especially Russia, Ukraine, Moldova, Belarus) also have the highest divorce and homicide rates in Europe.




The slight differences???

MEMENTO:

Western things which were not existed in orthodox world:

1. POLITICAL AND CONSTITUTIONAL development: Medieval appearance of parliaments (The parliament is a legislative body(!), DO NOT CONFUSE with the “councils of monarchs” which existed since the very beginnings of human history), the estates of the realm, the clergy, the nobility, and the commoners,

2. Local SELF GOVERNMENT status of big royal/imperial cities, which are the direct ancestors (the continuity) of modern local self governmental systems. Do not confuse the local self governments with the so-called city states. Sovereign city states were the earliest form of states in Human history ( For example: Sumerian city states), and that legal concept has nothing common with the self-governments/local governments of cities within a country or within an Empire.

3. ECONOMY: The medieval appearance of banking systems and social effects and status of urban bourgeoisie, the absolute dominance of money-economy (when the vast majority of trade based on money and the taxes customs duties were collected in money) from the 12th -13th century, instead of the former primitive bartel-based commerce (barter dominated the economies orthodox world until the 17-18th centuries.)

4. HIGHER EDUCATION: The medieval appearance of universities and the medieval appearance of SECULAR intellectuals,

5. CULTURE: Knights, the knight-culture, chivalric code, (and the technological effects of crusades from the Holy Land,)

Music and literature: courtly love, troubadours, Gregorian chant, Ars nova, Organum, Motet, Madrigal, Canon and Ballata, Liturgical drama, Novellas,

medieval western THEATER: Mystery or cycle plays, morality and passion plays, which developed into the renaissance theater, the direct ancestor of modern theaters.

Philosophy: Scholasticism and humanist philosophy,

6. The medieval usage of Latin alphabet and medieval spread of movable type printing,

7. TECHNOLOGY: The guild system is an association of artisans or merchants, which organized the training education, and directed master's exam system for artisians. Due to the compulsory foreign studies of the artisian master's candidates, the guilds played key role in the fast spread of technologies and industrial knowledge in the medieval Western World.

8. The defence systems & fortifications: The spread of stone/brick castle defense -systems, the town-walls of western cities from the 11th century. (In the orthodox world, only the capital cities had such a walls . The countries of the Balkan region and the territory of Russian states fell under Ottoman/Mongolian rule very rapidly - with a single decesive open-field battle - due to the lack of the networks of stone/brick castles and fortresses in these countries. The only exception was the Greek inhabited Byzantine territories which were well fortified.)

9. FINEARTS and ARCHITECTURE: western architecture, sculpture paintings and fine-arts: the Romanesque style, the Gothic style and the Renaissance style.

The orthodox church buildings and „palaces(?)” were very little, they had primitive structure and poor decorations, their style were influenced by oriental non-European arabic, persian and Syrian influenced Byzantine ornamentics.

10.The renaissance & humanism , the reformation and the enlightenment did not influenced/affected the Orthodox (Eastern European) countries.

11. Before 1870, the industrialization that had developed in Western and Central Europe and the United States did not extend in any significant way to the rest of the world. In Eastern Europe, industrialization lagged far behind, and started only in the 20th century. Their infrastructural and economic development was also very very slow, and many determinant factors of modern civilization - as we called them as civilized way of life - (railways, the electrification of cities, drain & sewer systems, water pipe systems, spread of tap water and bathrooms, telecommuncations etc... spread many-many decades (60-80 years) later.



LOL

https://i0.wp.com/fcpp.org/wp-content/uploads/Western_world.png?fit=1200%2C616&ssl=1

Catholics + Protestant = the Western world a.k.a European civilization with their offshots in the USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand.

Copy paste bullshits of Stears.

[FinalFlash]

It doesn't exist imo.

[JamesBond007]

The idea that Protestant religions, especially evangelical Christianity, have more in common with Catholicism than Orthodox Christianity is a complete farce.

Just like Catholicism?



Episcopalianism/Anglicanism is similar to Catholicism. Elite WASPs are episcopalian and to a lesser extant other mainline protestant e.g. presbyterian. Evangelical Christianity is weird kind of American wannabe non-WASP thing.

[Jana]

Copy paste bullshits of Stears.

Is it Stears? Or Hrvoje? Or my own sock?

Master Varda will know...

[Varda]

Is it Stears? Or Hrvoje? Or my own sock talking to myself?

Master Vards will know...

Everything he wrote Stears posted many times.

He is Hrvoje most likely, that nigga is inspired by you and Stears.

[Arūnas]

please, be so active on the vaccination field also, and in the real actions, there is a place for our "Balkaners" to safe the World from Bill G.

[Jana]

Everything he wrote Stears posted many times.

He is Hrvoje most likely, that nigga is inspired by you and Stears.

Hrvoje writes only on Croatian forum as you know, I pleaded with Loki to allow him back but Loki disagrees and that's fine. Not Hrvoje, Hrvoje has different style. And ofcourse not Stears.

I have no idea who this new user is, but whoever uses legandary Stears quotes is a quality troll and has my sympathies hahah.

[SouthDutch7991]

What is your IQ, 70?

*has no arguments to reply thus goes around with ad hominem

What you are quoting wasn't written by this new Croat member above, it was written by former Hungarian user Stears. And it seems you have 0 arguments to refute it.

In the end, you are not a European, but typical dumb Yank with lack of education.

I was responding less to the post itself and more to the general mindset of croats, serbs, and bosniaks, I don't care if it was copypasted as I'm not the kind of person to track down posts and copyposts obsessively. I'm well aware of the stupid ethnic infighting in the balkans, as it was a big endeavor of mine to study that regions history. I stand by what I said, just because you don't like what I think about it doesn't mean that I think because I'm a typical uneducated Yank. I am an uneducated Yank, for the record, but I'm also right about you guys. You'd sell all the world to satan just to see your next door Orthodox neighbor trip in a public setting.

[oszkar07]

It doesn't exist imo.

It exists to an extent , but there is a lot of regionalism in Europe.
On the other hand Nationalism has been essential for the survival of national identities and nation states.

[oszkar07]

double

[MechtoidAfalouHG]

Only balkanites can save Europe
https://youtu.be/5fslhBpTbXs

[marumaru]

Depends on many factors, amongst that the countries involved, their history, the outside world etc. A lot of Greek men in Greece will shake their fists in anger at Germany due to the economic situation, blaming them for everything and more, but the actual Greek migrants to Germany are amongst the best integrated. Being not as affected by other groups and not sharing a similar pov due to living so far apart changes a lot. I feel very European.

[catgeorge]

You seem triggered.

No - it's just Bolshevik type obnoxiousness.

[Mortimer]

I don't know if it exists in a objective sense I mean outside of society but it probably does similar as humanity but in the sense of identity it does exist and is commanly accepted and gets even more popular in Europe than before due to the EU immigration from outside Europe and influences from American pop culture I think european is a common way to identify and it is similar as white actually the most common definition of white is european sometimes it includes adjacent regions in the near east or coastal northafricans but the core is still europe and what the ideal of classic caucasoid is based on

[Jana]

I was responding less to the post itself and more to the general mindset of croats, serbs, and bosniaks

What would an American know about that? I don't see any similarities in "general mindset" with Serbs for example, thank God.
But of course you will tell us better, because you're an expert.


I'm well aware of the stupid ethnic infighting in the balkans, as it was a big endeavor of mine to study that regions history.
Can't say end result was successful.


I stand by what I said, just because you don't like what I think about it doesn't mean that I think because I'm a typical uneducated Yank. I am an uneducated Yank, for the record,
Yes, it shows.


but I'm also right about you guys.
There is no "us", except in your head.


You'd sell all the world to satan just to see your next door Orthodox neighbor trip in a public setting.
Just show how ridiculous and lacking any real insight you are. People don't care about their "orthodox neighbor" in general and don't really dedicate any meaningful time of the day to them.

You're starting to get on my nerves.

[Stotnik369]

Only balkanites can save Europe
https://youtu.be/5fslhBpTbXs

Oh, what a naivete!

[ulfricsombrage]

The first post "arguments" could be used to deny unity to every continent, country, region or identity

[Mortimer]

The first post "arguments" could be used to deny unity to every continent, country, region or identity

This european is a identity I think leftists and some non whites attack it but not all non whites only some live and let live if they identify as white thats what they are

[Gallop]

It exists because many centuries and millennia of relationships, alliances, exchanges e.t.c. Although the current trend in public forums, not only on the Internet, is disengagement or alienation, especially within Northern Europe towards Southern Europe and it must be due to the influence of America, America observes and feels of Northern European descent, so Northern Europeans are It is interesting to recreate that fantasy and the toll is a certain contempt for southern Europe in the eyes of American observers and at the same time, half accepting Italy as a pet, also due to the influence of the fully integrated Italian-American community, in addition to the Roman Empire, all those white statues without to paint that they came to believe that they were, in short, it is always better to believe that one is the elite than barbarians, as well as being a way of justifying modern successes.

Anyway when I went to Germany a group of Germans were talking about Spain and Portugal they should be united , don't ask me how I knew they were talking about it, but they were, so there's quite a bit of hypocrisy and two dialogues according to the interlocutor.

Where it can be seen most clearly and which also serve as sensors or thermometers is in people displaced to Northern or Central European countries, often from other races. In this profile of a character who, on a personal level, has to pay or believes that he has to pay a pejae, he will be the one who dares to say more explicitly what his environment really thinks. So this profile is fantastic sensors for us. :)