Armenia Chalcolithic GEDmatch results

[8888]

Quite interesting results.


Eurogenes K13

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 West_Asian 34.91
2 East_Med 23.8
3 Baltic 17.24
4 North_Atlantic 11.86
5 West_Med 8.91
6 Red_Sea 3.27

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Kumyk 11.1
2 Adygei 14.38
3 Chechen 15.01
4 Turkish 15.01
5 Kabardin 15.08
6 Lezgin 15.22
7 Azeri 15.26
8 Balkar 15.75
9 North_Ossetian 16.87
10 Tabassaran 16.93
11 Kurdish 17.59
12 Ossetian 18.46
13 Iranian 19.09
14 Georgian 19.61
15 Georgian_Jewish 19.95
16 Armenian 19.97
17 Turkmen 20.72
18 Assyrian 22.13
19 Central_Greek 22.15
20 Abhkasian 22.17

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 63.9% Lezgin + 36.1% Ashkenazi @ 5.09
2 60.1% Lezgin + 39.9% Central_Greek @ 5.3
3 61.9% Lezgin + 38.1% East_Sicilian @ 5.53
4 64.4% Chechen + 35.6% Ashkenazi @ 5.61
5 56.8% Abhkasian + 43.2% Serbian @ 5.81
6 61.8% Lezgin + 38.2% Greek_Thessaly @ 5.88
7 60.1% Georgian + 39.9% Serbian @ 5.89
8 55.5% Georgian + 44.5% Bulgarian @ 5.94
9 52.2% Abhkasian + 47.8% Bulgarian @ 6.05
10 57.1% Georgian + 42.9% Romanian @ 6.06
11 53.8% Abhkasian + 46.2% Romanian @ 6.07
12 63.4% Lezgin + 36.6% South_Italian @ 6.08
13 68% Lezgin + 32% Algerian_Jewish @ 6.12
14 67.8% Lezgin + 32.2% Italian_Jewish @ 6.19
15 64.2% Adygei + 35.8% Bulgarian @ 6.24
16 60.9% Chechen + 39.1% Central_Greek @ 6.28
17 63.7% Adygei + 36.3% Greek_Thessaly @ 6.38
18 67.7% Armenian + 32.3% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 6.42
19 64.5% Georgian + 35.5% Croatian @ 6.43
20 62.7% Chechen + 37.3% East_Sicilian @ 6.45


HarappaWorld

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 41.35
2 NE-Euro 20.25
3 Baloch 17.64
4 Mediterranean 11.12
5 SW-Asian 8.81
6 American 0.55
7 S-Indian 0.27

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 turk-istanbul (hodoglugil) 10.45
2 turk-aydin (hodoglugil) 11.02
3 stalskoe (xing) 11.61
4 turk-kayseri (hodoglugil) 12.33
5 turk (behar) 12.35
6 kumyk (yunusbayev) 12.79
7 turkish (harappa) 13.71
8 azeri (harappa) 13.76
9 chechen (yunusbayev) 15.71
10 lezgin (behar) 16.26
11 urkarah (xing) 16.52
12 armenian (harappa) 17.13
13 kurd (yunusbayev) 17.24
14 kurd (harappa) 17.31
15 iranian (harappa) 17.64
16 balkar (yunusbayev) 17.75
17 nogai (yunusbayev) 18.19
18 uzbekistan-jew (behar) 18.26
19 ashkenazi (harappa) 18.33
20 ashkenazy-jew (behar) 18.38

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 53.1% lezgin (behar) + 46.9% ashkenazi (harappa) @ 2.34
2 53.1% lezgin (behar) + 46.9% ashkenazy-jew (behar) @ 2.8
3 52.7% urkarah (xing) + 47.3% ashkenazy-jew (behar) @ 2.9
4 57.3% urkarah (xing) + 42.7% sephardic-jew (behar) @ 3.05
5 73.6% armenian (yunusbayev) + 26.4% lithuanian (behar) @ 3.29
6 68.3% armenian (yunusbayev) + 31.7% ukranian (yunusbayev) @ 3.55
7 52.7% urkarah (xing) + 47.3% ashkenazi (harappa) @ 3.64
8 69.7% armenian (yunusbayev) + 30.3% mordovian (yunusbayev) @ 3.7
9 60.7% urkarah (xing) + 39.3% morocco-jew (behar) @ 3.73
10 70.8% armenian (yunusbayev) + 29.2% belorussian (behar) @ 3.73
11 58.7% kurd (yunusbayev) + 41.3% bulgarian (yunusbayev) @ 4.02
12 71.4% armenian (yunusbayev) + 28.6% russian (hgdp) @ 4.02
13 54.1% chechen (yunusbayev) + 45.9% ashkenazi (harappa) @ 4.14
14 54.2% chechen (yunusbayev) + 45.8% ashkenazy-jew (behar) @ 4.19
15 65.6% armenian (yunusbayev) + 34.4% slovenian (xing) @ 4.33
16 75.1% armenian (behar) + 24.9% lithuanian (behar) @ 4.33
17 69.9% armenian (behar) + 30.1% ukranian (yunusbayev) @ 4.34
18 65.1% armenian (yunusbayev) + 34.9% hungarian (behar) @ 4.5
19 71.3% armenian (behar) + 28.7% mordovian (yunusbayev) @ 4.52
20 72.7% armenian (behar) + 27.3% orcadian (hgdp) @ 4.53


Ancient Eurasia K6

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Natufian 48.83
2 Ancestral_North_Eurasian 25.92
3 West_European_Hunter_Gartherer 25.25

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Armenia_ChL 4.64
2 Italian_South 7.42
3 Sicilian 8.7
4 Jew_Ashkenazi 8.82
5 Greek 9.41
6 Jew_Moroccan 9.43
7 Turkish 10.11
8 Cypriot 10.21
9 Adygei 10.97
10 Jew_Tunisian 11.36
11 Albanian 11.39
12 Kumyk 11.44
13 Jew_Libyan 11.81
14 Chechen 12.09
15 Druze 12.76
16 Balkar 13.17
17 Lezgin 13.55
18 Lebanese 13.63
19 Syrian 14.09
20 Georgian 14.36

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 66.9% Georgian + 33.1% Basque @ 1.51
2 60.5% Georgian + 39.5% Spanish @ 1.91
3 65.3% Italian_South + 34.7% Lezgin @ 2.03
4 55.9% Albanian + 44.1% Georgian @ 2.05
5 62.1% Georgian + 37.9% French @ 2.12
6 53.3% Georgian + 46.7% Romanian @ 2.12
7 60.8% Greek + 39.2% Georgian @ 2.14
8 50.3% Georgian + 49.7% Bulgarian @ 2.28
9 62.4% Assyrian + 37.6% English @ 2.4
10 62.8% Italian_South + 37.2% Chechen @ 2.44
11 58.3% Georgian + 41.7% Croatian @ 2.45
12 60.6% Assyrian + 39.4% French @ 2.51
13 62.1% Assyrian + 37.9% Czech @ 2.52
14 56.7% Assyrian + 43.3% Croatian @ 2.58
15 61% Jew_iraqi + 39% English @ 2.59
16 63.8% Jew_iraqi + 36.2% Icelandic @ 2.59
17 60.6% Jew_iraqi + 39.4% Czech @ 2.61
18 65.3% Assyrian + 34.7% Icelandic @ 2.63
19 61.9% Jew_iraqi + 38.1% Norwegian @ 2.71
20 93.1% Italian_South + 6.9% MA1 @ 2.74


MDLP World

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucaus_Parsia 35.01
2 South_and_West_European 30.2
3 North_and_East_European 16.97
4 Middle_East 15.97
5 Arctic_Amerind 1.28
6 Indian 0.52
7 Paleo_African 0.06

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek_Azov 6.7
2 Tatar_Crim 10.49
3 Cirkassian 12.21
4 Turk 13.34
5 Balkarian 14.28
6 Adygei 14.47
7 Kumyk 15.06
8 Georgian 15.37
9 Kabardinian 15.52
10 Greek_Cretan 17.51
11 Nogai 17.68
12 NorthOssetian 17.68
13 Chechen 17.87
14 Jew_Romania 18.06
15 Greek_North 18.1
16 Azeri 18.19
17 Greek_East 18.76
18 Greek_South 18.77
19 Greek_Center 18.98
20 Armenian 19.57

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 55.5% Jew_Romania + 44.5% Tabassaran @ 1.92
2 52% Ashkenazim_V + 48% Lezgin @ 2.03
3 56.2% Jew_Romania + 43.8% Lak @ 2.09
4 57.4% Jew_Romania + 42.6% Avar @ 2.13
5 61.6% Georgian_Laz + 38.4% Latvian_V @ 2.14
6 53.1% Chechen + 46.9% Ashkenazim_V @ 2.18
7 69.7% Georgian_Laz + 30.3% Belarusian @ 2.46
8 67.9% Georgian_Laz + 32.1% Russian_V @ 2.6
9 54.9% Jew_Romania + 45.1% Lezgin @ 2.69
10 53.9% Greek_South + 46.1% Lezgin @ 2.73
11 66.2% Georgian_Laz + 33.8% Ukrainian-Center @ 2.8
12 65.7% Kurd + 34.3% Orcadian @ 2.81
13 65.4% Georgian_Laz + 34.6% Ukrainian-West @ 2.82
14 71.1% Georgian_Laz + 28.9% Lithuanian_V @ 2.83
15 67.3% Georgian_Laz + 32.7% Ukrainian @ 2.84
16 69.7% Georgian_Laz + 30.3% Russian @ 2.87
17 71.6% Georgian_Laz + 28.4% Lithuanian @ 2.87
18 65.5% Georgian_Laz + 34.5% Ukrainian_V @ 2.88
19 69% Georgian_Laz + 31% Russian_Center @ 2.88
20 68.9% Armenian + 31.1% Russian_South @ 2.89

[Gangrel]

Significant European input compared to modern Armenians.

[8888]

Significant European input compared to modern Armenians.

Yes. I remember seeing some Iranian Chalcolithic plotting with Serbians, but I can't find the kit now.

[Ajeje Brazorf]

I1631-ArmeniaChL M926386
1 armenian_behar + hungarian_behar + iraq-jew_behar + urkarah_xing @ 1.403200
1 Assyrian + Georgian + Hungarian + Lezgin @ 4.253081

I1658-ArmeniaEBA M536324
1 abhkasian_yunusbayev + abhkasian_yunusbayev + kurd_xing + kurd_xing @ 4.427667
1 Abhkasian + Abhkasian + Armenian + Georgian @ 8.550719

I1656-ArmeniaMLBA M182163
1 georgian_behar + georgian_behar + makrani_hgdp + utahn-white_1000genomes @ 4.133368
1 Georgian + Georgian + Tabassaran + Tabassaran @ 7.992409

M691697 RISE407_Armenian_LBA
1 armenian_yunusbayev + lezgin_behar + lithuanian_behar + makrani_hgdp @ 3.610393
1 Chechen + East_German + North_Ossetian + North_Ossetian @ 8.516474

M930063 RISE423_Armenian_MBA
1 iranian_behar + tuscan_hgdp + urkarah_xing + urkarah_xing @ 2.585435
1 Abhkasian + Abhkasian + Irish + Kurdish @ 7.492828

M417230 I1407 Armenia Chalcolithic [4350-3700 BC]
1 georgian_behar + italian_hgdp + kurd_xing + kurd_xing @ 3.039519
1 Abhkasian + Armenian + Armenian + North_Italian @ 6.019149

M133098 I1409 Armenia Chalcolithic [4229-3985 BC]
1 abhkasian_yunusbayev + british_1000genomes + lezgin_behar + urkarah_xing @ 2.551805
1 Assyrian + North_Ossetian + North_Ossetian + Swedish @ 17.328047

M162111 I1632 Armenia Chalcolithic [4230-4000 BC]
1 iraq-jew_behar + lezgin_behar + lezgin_behar + sardinian_hgdp @ 1.838554
1 Georgian + Georgian + Lebanese_Druze + Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 4.672415

M734029 I1634 Armenia Chalcolithic [4330-4060 BC]
1 assyrian_harappa + georgian_behar + lezgin_behar + spaniard_1000genomes @ 1.481197
1 Abhkasian + French_Basque + Georgian_Jewish + Kurdish @ 8.697940

M731608 I1633 Armenia EBA [2619-2410 BC]
1 armenian_behar + georgian_behar + georgian_behar + makrani_hgdp @ 4.421744
1 Abhkasian + Abhkasian + Abhkasian + Armenian @ 7.927073

M340653 I1635 Armenia EBA [2619-2465 BC]
1 georgian_behar + georgian_harappa + kurd_xing + kurd_xing @ 2.716018
1 Abhkasian + Abhkasian + Abhkasian + Kurdish_Jewish @ 5.279759

M487536 RISE413 Armenia MBA [1906-1698 BC]
1 chechen_yunusbayev + kurd_xing + makrani_hgdp + mordovian_yunusbayev @ 9.538815
1 Chechen + Chechen + Chechen + Tabassaran @ 14.891443

M124777 RISE416 Armenia MBA [1643-1445 BC]
1 basque_hgdp + lezgin_behar + lezgin_behar + tuscan_hapmap @ 6.413753
1 Abhkasian + Italian_Jewish + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 13.267790

M575241 RISE423 Armenia MBA [1402-1211 BC]
1 iranian_behar + tuscan_hgdp + urkarah_xing + urkarah_xing @ 2.589994
1 Abhkasian + Abhkasian + Irish + Kurdish @ 7.441445

M578721 RISE408 Armenia LBA [1209-1009 BC]
1 british_1000genomes + chechen_yunusbayev + chechen_yunusbayev + makrani_hgdp @ 4.040509
1 Abhkasian + Abhkasian + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 19.244591

M263493 RISE412 Armenia LBA [1193-945 BC]
1 cypriot_behar + georgian_behar + georgian_behar + urkarah_xing @ 3.223790
1 Abhkasian + Abhkasian + Abhkasian + French_Basque @ 8.185641

M062682 RISE396 Armenia LBA [1192-937 BC]
1 georgian_behar + georgian_behar + kurd_xing + utahn-white_1000genomes @ 1.983981
1 Abhkasian + Abhkasian + Orcadian + Spanish_Galicia @ 12.141707

M497255 RISE397 Armenia LBA [1048-855 BC]
1 basque_hgdp + kurd_xing + lezgin_behar + lezgin_behar @ 3.678523
1 Abhkasian + Armenian + Irish + Italian_Abruzzo @ 8.901359

[FinalFlash]

Interesting results indeed. Are you sure these results belonged to an Armenian?

[8888]

Interesting results indeed. Are you sure these results belonged to an Armenian?

Yes. I have the kit number and links to the research that provided the sample. No modern Armenians score like this btw.

[FinalFlash]

Yes. I have the kit number and links to the research that provided the sample. No modern Armenians score like this btw.

Very strange. According to Peter Hretchdakian's studies on Armenian genetics, he confirmed that Armenians have remained genetic isolates for roughly 4,000 years and have been very homogenous.

Most Armenians results I've seen on ancestry DNA(only a few unfortunately) tend to score Caucasus at around 60-65%, Europe South at 20-25%, middle east at 10-15, and minor East/west euro at 1-5% on average.

These results look different than what I've seen thus far.

[FinalFlash]

They seem even more northern shifted than Circassians and Chechens for example.

[8888]

Very strange. According to Peter Hretchdakian's studies on Armenian genetics, he confirmed that Armenians have remained genetic isolates for roughly 4,000 years and have been very homogenous.

Most Armenians results I've seen on ancestry DNA(only a few unfortunately) tend to score Caucasus at around 60-65%, Europe South at 20-25%, middle east at 10-15, and minor East/west euro at 1-5% on average.

These results look different than what I've seen thus far.

Well, I have many Armenian Chalc samples and most come out way more European than modern Armenians.
Btw, Ancestry DNA isn't accurate to give you the whole pic.

Armenians aren't Caucasus +South Europe. They are basically Indo-Europeanized Mesopotamians/Assyrians.

[Aren]

Interesting results indeed. Are you sure these results belonged to an Armenian?

Not Armenian, but found in modern day Armenia from the Chalcolithic period(around 4000 BC), obviously the Armenian ethnogenesis had not happend at that time.

These Armenian_Chl samples were clearly intrusive to southern Caucasus/Eastern Anatolia since they were EHG shifted.

[FinalFlash]

Well, I have many Armenian Chalc samples and most come out way more European than modern Armenians.
Btw, Ancestry DNA isn't accurate to give you the whole pic.

Armenians aren't Caucasus +South Europe. They are basically Indo-Europeanized Mesopotamians/Assyrians.

Not necessarily. The Assyrian samples seem to come from Assyrians that have roots in southern Turkey who have undoubtedly been mixed with Armenians to a degree. Every other Assyrian I've ever met had an Armenian parent or a grandparent in real life that can trace their roots to modern day south Turkey. I'd like to see Assyrian results of Assyrians from Mesopotamia because judging by the phenotypes that I've seen, I'm more than certain that they aren't interchangeable populations.

[Aren]

Well, I have many Armenian Chalc samples and most come out way more European than modern Armenians.
Btw, Ancestry DNA isn't accurate to give you the whole pic.

Armenians aren't Caucasus +South Europe. They are basically Indo-Europeanized Mesopotamians/Assyrians.

Armenians plot firmly in Eastern Anatolia and the southernmost part of the Caucasus, they are close to Assyrians but still significantly different.

[FinalFlash]

Do you have any samples of Armenians native to modern day Armenia? I know you said that Ancestry doesnt paint the whole picture, but the results for both sets of Armenians were quite distinguishable and visibly different from the limited samples I have seen.

[FinalFlash]

Armenians plot firmly in Eastern Anatolia and the southernmost part of the Caucasus, they are close to Assyrians but still significantly different.

I agree with this. Armenians are clearly not Mesopotamians and I'd argue even that the more northern shifted and Armenian-admixed Assyrians arent Mesopotamians either.

[İrle]

It is not correct to see those examples as the ancestors of Armenians. They were just found in modern day Armenia hence labelled as such.

[Porn Master]

"northern shifted"

xD

[Aren]

Not necessarily. The Assyrian samples seem to come from Assyrians that have roots in southern Turkey who have undoubtedly been mixed with Armenians to a degree. Every other Assyrian I've ever met had an Armenian parent or a grandparent in real life that can trace their roots to modern day south Turkey. I'd like to see Assyrian results of Assyrians from Mesopotamia because judging by the phenotypes that I've seen, I'm more than certain that they aren't interchangeable populations.

Heh you could not be more wrong. Mixing with Armenians is a recent thing and not common at all. There's little to no difference between us Assyrians wherever we're originally from. Hakkari and Tur Abdin Assyrians(from "Turkey") are no different than the rest of us. I have like 40 Assyrian Gedmatch kits from Iraq, Turkey and Iran and there are no differences whatsoever.

The thing is that Western Armenians are significantly shifted towards Mesopotamia and differ from Eastern Armenians. And the few of us who are mixed with Armenians have intermarried with Western Armenians.

[FinalFlash]

Heh you could not be more wrong. Mixing with Armenians is a recent thing and not common at all. There's little to no difference between us Assyrians wherever we're originally from. Hakkari and Tur Abdin Assyrians(from "Turkey") are no different than the rest of us. I have like 40 Assyrian Gedmatch kits from Iraq, Turkey and Iran and there are no differences whatsoever.

The thing is that Western Armenians are significantly shifted towards Mesopotamia and differ from Eastern Armenians. And the few of us who are mixed with Armenians have intermarried with Western Armenians.

I mean a lot of the Assyrians on these Anthroforums seem to have significant Armenian ancestry from what I've seen. I'm sure regional differences occur in any population though. And yes, from the limited east Armenian results I've seen, there are visible differences.

[FinalFlash]

It is not correct to see those examples as the ancestors of Armenians. They were just found in modern day Armenia hence labelled as such.

This was exactly what I thought. No way this could have been an ethnic Armenian.

[FinalFlash]

"northern shifted"

xD

Anything of use you want to add Kemet?

[Aren]

I mean a lot of the Assyrians on these Anthroforums seem to have significant Armenian ancestry from what I've seen. I'm sure regional differences occur in any population though. And yes, from the limited east Armenian results I've seen, there are visible differences.

Assyrians on anthrofora, the few of us are not really representative. But as far as I know there are two Assyrians on anthroforas who are partly Armenian and one of them is from Lebanon. He's 25% Western Armenian and from what I've seen of his Gedmatch results he's not any different than other 100% Assyrians(like me, from Northern Iraq). Again cause Western Armenians are quite southern shifted.
And on the contrary we are one of the few people in the world were regional differences are much smaller than individual differences cause we've had Muslims living north, south, west and east of us. Only Christians that we have intermixed with to a certain degree these past 100 hundred years have been Western Armenians.

[Porn Master]

Anything of use you want to add Kemet?



wat da fuk u talkin' aebut?

[FinalFlash]

Assyrians on anthrofora, the few of us are not really representative. But as far as I know there are two Assyrians on anthroforas who are partly Armenian and one of them is from Lebanon. He's 25% Western Armenian and from what I've seen of his Gedmatch results he's not any different than other 100% Assyrians(like me, from Northern Iraq). Again cause Western Armenians are quite southern shifted.

Possibly. Were his roots from Van or Tigranakert(diyerbukir I think its called now)?

[Aren]

Possibly. Were his roots from Van or Tigranakert(diyerbukir I think its called now)?

Not sure. We call it Amida though.

[Armenian Bishop]

Significant European input compared to modern Armenians.

MY 23andMe results tell me that my European input is at 84.5%
And 50% of my family tree origin is Armenian.
When you subtract the 50% from the 84.5% figure,
69% of my Armenian ancestry parallels Europeans.
The Catholicos isn't the only Armenian like that, trust me.

[Bobby Martnen]

MY 23andMe results tell me that my European input is at 84.5%
And 50% of my family tree origin is Armenian.
When you subtract the 50% from the 84.5% figure,
69% of my Armenian ancestry parallels Europeans.
The Catholicos isn't the only Armenian like that, trust me.

Can you please post your Eurogenes K15 from GEDmatch?

[Armenian Bishop]

It is not correct to see those examples as the ancestors of Armenians. They were just found in modern day Armenia hence labelled as such.

I don't think so, but I might have misunderstood what was said.


This was exactly what I thought. No way this could have been an ethnic Armenian.

I don't agree with you, but I might have misunderstood that too.
Why is that conclusion drawn?
What the premise of the conclusion?

[FinalFlash]

I don't think so, but I might have misunderstood what was said.



I don't agree with you, but I might have misunderstood that too.
Why is that conclusion drawn?
What the premise of the conclusion?

Results are different to modern day Armenians. Even modern day Armenians have noticeable genetic differences from one another(EA vs WA)

[Armenian Bishop]

Results are different to modern day Armenians. Even modern day Armenians have noticeable genetic differences from one another(EA vs WA)

I still don't understand what you're get at, and I don't entirely agree with you there either. Modern Armenians do have a direct ancestral connection to ancient Armenians. And, I think you know that, so what are you getting at?

[FinalFlash]

I still don't understand what you're get at, and I don't entirely agree with you there either. Modern Armenians do have a direct ancestral connection to ancient Armenians. And, I think you know that, so what are you getting at?

Regional differences do exist. That's all I'm saying. And yes, I'm still not convinced about the results of these strange neolithic Armenian samples. I'm sure Peter Hretchdakian's studies are spot on when he says that we've been homogenous for thousands of years.

[Aren]

Regional differences do exist. That's all I'm saying. And yes, I'm still not convinced about the results of these strange neolithic Armenian samples. I'm sure Peter Hretchdakian's studies are spot on when he says that we've been homogenous for thousands of years.

This sample is from 6000 years ago. You must be quite mad to think Armenians have stayed the same for 6000 years.

Armenian ethnogenesis happend much later, probably after the Phrygian movements.

[FinalFlash]

This sample is from 6000 years ago. You must be quite mad to think Armenians have stayed the same for 6000 years.

Armenian ethnogenesis happend much later, probably after the Phrygian movements.

4,000 Years not 6,000. Lol @ Phrygian movements. Jesus talk about distorting history. You actually buy that?

[FinalFlash]

Who is your source, Herodotus?

[Leto]

Do you have any samples of Armenians native to modern day Armenia? I know you said that Ancestry doesnt paint the whole picture, but the results for both sets of Armenians were quite distinguishable and visibly different from the limited samples I have seen.
One from Russia

Eurogenes K13 Oracle results:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 36.37
2 West_Asian 36.33
3 West_Med 14.84
4 Red_Sea 6.12
5 South_Asian 1.75
6 North_Atlantic 1.74
7 Baltic 1.11
8 Oceanian 0.88
9 Amerindian 0.79
10 Siberian 0.08

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Armenian 3.78
2 Georgian_Jewish 4.86
3 Assyrian 5.92
4 Kurdish_Jewish 9.38
5 Iranian_Jewish 10.47
6 Turkish 11.1
7 Kurdish 12.08
8 Azeri 12.52
9 Lebanese_Muslim 13.11
10 Iranian 14.25
11 Syrian 15.3
12 Cyprian 15.69
13 Lebanese_Christian 17.47
14 Lebanese_Druze 17.69
15 Samaritan 19.03
16 Georgian 19.6
17 Jordanian 19.89
18 Abhkasian 20.61
19 Palestinian 21.51
20 Kumyk 21.69

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 83.6% Armenian + 16.4% Cyprian @ 2.24
2 86.1% Armenian + 13.9% Samaritan @ 2.25
3 85.1% Armenian + 14.9% Lebanese_Christian @ 2.26
4 82.8% Armenian + 17.2% Lebanese_Muslim @ 2.69
5 90.5% Armenian + 9.5% Tunisian_Jewish @ 2.84
6 90.7% Armenian + 9.3% Libyan_Jewish @ 2.84
7 87.5% Armenian + 12.5% Lebanese_Druze @ 2.85
8 89.6% Armenian + 10.4% Palestinian @ 2.87
9 91.2% Armenian + 8.8% Algerian_Jewish @ 2.87
10 86% Armenian + 14% Syrian @ 2.89
11 89.1% Armenian + 10.9% Jordanian @ 2.92
12 94% Armenian + 6% Yemenite_Jewish @ 2.95
13 68.4% Armenian + 31.6% Assyrian @ 2.95
14 91.6% Armenian + 8.4% Italian_Jewish @ 2.97
15 91.6% Armenian + 8.4% Bedouin @ 3
16 93.2% Armenian + 6.8% Egyptian @ 3.02
17 79.8% Armenian + 20.2% Kurdish_Jewish @ 3.04
18 54.2% Lebanese_Christian + 45.8% Abhkasian @ 3.05
19 91.5% Armenian + 8.5% Sephardic_Jewish @ 3.07
20 94.4% Armenian + 5.6% Tunisian @ 3.07


Dodecad K12b Oracle results:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 48.55
2 Gedrosia 18.12
3 Southwest_Asian 15.97
4 Atlantic_Med 13.11
5 North_European 2.41
6 South_Asian 0.99
7 Northwest_African 0.42
8 East_Asian 0.28
9 Siberian 0.16

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) 5.44
2 Assyrian (Dodecad) 5.64
3 Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) 6.88
4 Georgia_Jews (Behar) 7.03
5 Armenian (Dodecad) 7.42
6 Armenians_15 (Yunusbayev) 7.89
7 Iranian_Jews (Behar) 9.02
8 Iraq_Jews (Behar) 9.61
9 Turks (Behar) 9.92
10 Turkish (Dodecad) 10.61
11 Druze (HGDP) 11.26
12 Armenians (Behar) 12.28
13 Lebanese (Behar) 12.84
14 Kurds (Yunusbayev) 13.26
15 Cypriots (Behar) 13.61
16 Kurd (Dodecad) 14.38
17 Iranian (Dodecad) 15.2
18 Syrians (Behar) 16.14
19 Iranians (Behar) 17.58
20 Jordanians (Behar) 18.42

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 92.9% Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) + 7.1% Pais_Vasco (1000Genomes) @ 0.86
2 91.5% Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) + 8.5% Valencia (1000Genomes) @ 0.89
3 91.6% Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) + 8.4% Aragon (1000Genomes) @ 0.93
4 90.8% Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) + 9.2% Andalucia (1000Genomes) @ 0.93
5 93.2% Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) + 6.8% French_Basque (HGDP) @ 0.98
6 91.6% Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) + 8.4% Cantabria (1000Genomes) @ 0.99
7 91.3% Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) + 8.7% Spaniards (Behar) @ 0.99
8 91.4% Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) + 8.6% Castilla_La_Mancha (1000Genomes) @ 1.01
9 91.4% Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) + 8.6% Cataluna (1000Genomes) @ 1.04
10 91.4% Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) + 8.6% Spanish (Dodecad) @ 1.08
11 90.7% Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) + 9.3% Baleares (1000Genomes) @ 1.11
12 91.2% Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) + 8.8% Castilla_Y_Leon (1000Genomes) @ 1.14
13 90.8% Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) + 9.2% Extremadura (1000Genomes) @ 1.16
14 90.9% Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) + 9.1% Murcia (1000Genomes) @ 1.18
15 90.9% Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) + 9.1% Galicia (1000Genomes) @ 1.26
16 91% Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) + 9% Portuguese (Dodecad) @ 1.3
17 89.3% Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) + 10.7% North_Italian (HGDP) @ 1.38
18 89% Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) + 11% N_Italian (Dodecad) @ 1.45
19 90.8% Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) + 9.2% Canarias (1000Genomes) @ 1.5
20 87.5% Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) + 12.5% TSI30 (Metspalu) @ 1.56


MDLP K16 Modern Oracle results:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 60.32
2 Neolithic 14.52
3 Steppe 10.39
4 NearEast 8.8
5 Indian 4.06
6 NorthEastEuropean 1.22
7 Australian 0.35
8 EastAfrican 0.24
9 NorthAfrican 0.1

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Armenian (Armenia) 3.61
2 Armenian (Armenia) 3.88
3 Georgian (Laz) 5.11
4 Armenian (Vardnis) 5.57
5 Armenian (Vanatur_Hrazdan) 5.71
6 Jew (Georgia) 5.81
7 Armenian (Lebanon) 6.82
8 Assyrian (Armenia) 7.51
9 Armenian (Armenia) 7.58
10 Georgian (Georgia) 7.72
11 Armenian (Yerevan) 7.73
12 Georgian_Abkhazia (Abkhazia) 7.9
13 Turk (Trabzon) 7.94
14 Adjar (Adjaria) 8.06
15 Armenian (Erzrum) 8.19
16 Georgian (Kakheti) 8.47
17 Armenian (Dprabak) 8.7
18 Armenian (Martuni) 8.78
19 Turk (Kayseri) 8.87
20 Jew (Iraqi) 9.06

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 81.4% Armenian (Armenia) + 18.6% Cypriot (Cyprus) @ 2.49
2 95.7% Armenian (Armenia) + 4.3% Sardinian (Sardinia) @ 2.68
3 91.4% Armenian (Armenia) + 8.6% Sicilian (Sicily) @ 2.76
4 93.2% Armenian (Armenia) + 6.8% Italian (Tuscany) @ 2.77
5 90.5% Armenian (Armenia) + 9.5% Jew (Italian) @ 2.79
6 94.3% Armenian (Armenia) + 5.7% Italian (Bergamo) @ 2.81
7 92.3% Armenian (Armenia) + 7.7% Greek (Greece) @ 2.82
8 94.1% Armenian (Armenia) + 5.9% Corsican (Corsica) @ 2.83
9 90.6% Armenian (Armenia) + 9.4% Jew (Bulgaria) @ 2.84
10 54.5% Armenian (Lebanon) + 45.5% Turk (Trabzon) @ 2.84
11 92.6% Armenian (Armenia) + 7.4% Albanian (Albania) @ 2.84
12 96.7% Armenian (Armenia) + 3.3% Basque (Spain) @ 2.85
13 91% Armenian (Armenia) + 9% Jew (Ashkenazi) @ 2.85
14 93.2% Armenian (Armenia) + 6.8% Kosovar (Kosovo) @ 2.85
15 96.5% Armenian (Armenia) + 3.5% Spanish (Pais_Vasco) @ 2.86
16 96.7% Armenian (Armenia) + 3.3% Basque (France) @ 2.86
17 96.4% Armenian (Armenia) + 3.6% French (SouthFrance) @ 2.86
18 55.7% Turk (Trabzon) + 44.3% Assyrian (Armavir) @ 2.88
19 95.4% Armenian (Armenia) + 4.6% Spanish (Spain) @ 2.9
20 92.1% Armenian (Armenia) + 7.9% Maltese (Malta) @ 2.91


puntDNAL K15 Oracle results:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 43.77
2 Mediterranean 33.92
3 SW_Asian 12.59
4 NE_European 3.49
5 S_Indian 2.43
6 Horn_Of_Africa 1.98
7 Oceanian 0.71
8 E_Asian 0.37
9 Siberian 0.26
10 S_African 0.26
11 Beringian 0.23

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Assyrian 2.14
2 Armenian 5.49
3 Turk_Trabzon 6.19
4 Druze 8.66
5 Turk_Kayseri 8.7
6 Azerbaijani 8.74
7 Kurdish 9.81
8 Turk_Istanbul 11.33
9 Cypriot 12
10 Lebanese 13.15
11 Palestinian 13.67
12 Samaritian 14.44
13 Iraqi_Jew 15.05
14 Iranian 15.17
15 Syrian 16.17
16 Jordanian 17.07
17 Abkhasian 18.12
18 North_Ossetian 20.34
19 Georgian 20.53
20 Kumyk 20.54

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 71.6% Turk_Trabzon + 28.4% Iraqi_Jew @ 1.85
2 98.9% Assyrian + 1.1% Paniya @ 1.92
3 98.9% Assyrian + 1.1% Malayan @ 1.93
4 74.2% Turk_Trabzon + 25.8% Jordanian @ 1.93
5 73.2% Turk_Trabzon + 26.8% Syrian @ 1.96
6 98.9% Assyrian + 1.1% Sakilli @ 1.96
7 98.9% Assyrian + 1.1% North_Kannadi @ 1.96
8 97.2% Assyrian + 2.8% Romani @ 1.98
9 93.5% Assyrian + 6.5% Cypriot @ 1.98
10 98.8% Assyrian + 1.2% Tamil_Nadu_SC @ 1.98
11 98.9% Assyrian + 1.1% Uttar_Pradesh_SC @ 2
12 98.5% Assyrian + 1.5% Sardinian @ 2.02
13 92.3% Assyrian + 7.7% Druze @ 2.03
14 98.9% Assyrian + 1.1% Kanjar @ 2.03
15 98.9% Assyrian + 1.1% Tharus @ 2.03
16 99% Assyrian + 1% Bengali @ 2.04
17 99% Assyrian + 1% Tamil_Nadu_Brahmin @ 2.06
18 99% Assyrian + 1% UP_Muslim @ 2.07
19 99.5% Assyrian + 0.5% Melanesian @ 2.07
20 96.4% Assyrian + 3.6% Samaritian @ 2.08

[Aren]

4,000 Years not 6,000. Lol @ Phrygian movements. Jesus talk about distorting history. You actually buy that?

No this sample is from 6000 years ago, so I don't know why you would think it would be similar to modern day Armenians.
And yes right now much points to the Armenian language coming from the west but Armenians have very little Steppe meaning they are mostly Indo-Europeanized natives.

[FinalFlash]

One from Russia

Eurogenes K13 Oracle results:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 36.37
2 West_Asian 36.33
3 West_Med 14.84
4 Red_Sea 6.12
5 South_Asian 1.75
6 North_Atlantic 1.74
7 Baltic 1.11
8 Oceanian 0.88
9 Amerindian 0.79
10 Siberian 0.08

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Armenian 3.78
2 Georgian_Jewish 4.86
3 Assyrian 5.92
4 Kurdish_Jewish 9.38
5 Iranian_Jewish 10.47
6 Turkish 11.1
7 Kurdish 12.08
8 Azeri 12.52
9 Lebanese_Muslim 13.11
10 Iranian 14.25
11 Syrian 15.3
12 Cyprian 15.69
13 Lebanese_Christian 17.47
14 Lebanese_Druze 17.69
15 Samaritan 19.03
16 Georgian 19.6
17 Jordanian 19.89
18 Abhkasian 20.61
19 Palestinian 21.51
20 Kumyk 21.69

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 83.6% Armenian + 16.4% Cyprian @ 2.24
2 86.1% Armenian + 13.9% Samaritan @ 2.25
3 85.1% Armenian + 14.9% Lebanese_Christian @ 2.26
4 82.8% Armenian + 17.2% Lebanese_Muslim @ 2.69
5 90.5% Armenian + 9.5% Tunisian_Jewish @ 2.84
6 90.7% Armenian + 9.3% Libyan_Jewish @ 2.84
7 87.5% Armenian + 12.5% Lebanese_Druze @ 2.85
8 89.6% Armenian + 10.4% Palestinian @ 2.87
9 91.2% Armenian + 8.8% Algerian_Jewish @ 2.87
10 86% Armenian + 14% Syrian @ 2.89
11 89.1% Armenian + 10.9% Jordanian @ 2.92
12 94% Armenian + 6% Yemenite_Jewish @ 2.95
13 68.4% Armenian + 31.6% Assyrian @ 2.95
14 91.6% Armenian + 8.4% Italian_Jewish @ 2.97
15 91.6% Armenian + 8.4% Bedouin @ 3
16 93.2% Armenian + 6.8% Egyptian @ 3.02
17 79.8% Armenian + 20.2% Kurdish_Jewish @ 3.04
18 54.2% Lebanese_Christian + 45.8% Abhkasian @ 3.05
19 91.5% Armenian + 8.5% Sephardic_Jewish @ 3.07
20 94.4% Armenian + 5.6% Tunisian @ 3.07


Dodecad K12b Oracle results:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 48.55
2 Gedrosia 18.12
3 Southwest_Asian 15.97
4 Atlantic_Med 13.11
5 North_European 2.41
6 South_Asian 0.99
7 Northwest_African 0.42
8 East_Asian 0.28
9 Siberian 0.16

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) 5.44
2 Assyrian (Dodecad) 5.64
3 Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) 6.88
4 Georgia_Jews (Behar) 7.03
5 Armenian (Dodecad) 7.42
6 Armenians_15 (Yunusbayev) 7.89
7 Iranian_Jews (Behar) 9.02
8 Iraq_Jews (Behar) 9.61
9 Turks (Behar) 9.92
10 Turkish (Dodecad) 10.61
11 Druze (HGDP) 11.26
12 Armenians (Behar) 12.28
13 Lebanese (Behar) 12.84
14 Kurds (Yunusbayev) 13.26
15 Cypriots (Behar) 13.61
16 Kurd (Dodecad) 14.38
17 Iranian (Dodecad) 15.2
18 Syrians (Behar) 16.14
19 Iranians (Behar) 17.58
20 Jordanians (Behar) 18.42

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 92.9% Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) + 7.1% Pais_Vasco (1000Genomes) @ 0.86
2 91.5% Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) + 8.5% Valencia (1000Genomes) @ 0.89
3 91.6% Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) + 8.4% Aragon (1000Genomes) @ 0.93
4 90.8% Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) + 9.2% Andalucia (1000Genomes) @ 0.93
5 93.2% Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) + 6.8% French_Basque (HGDP) @ 0.98
6 91.6% Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) + 8.4% Cantabria (1000Genomes) @ 0.99
7 91.3% Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) + 8.7% Spaniards (Behar) @ 0.99
8 91.4% Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) + 8.6% Castilla_La_Mancha (1000Genomes) @ 1.01
9 91.4% Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) + 8.6% Cataluna (1000Genomes) @ 1.04
10 91.4% Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) + 8.6% Spanish (Dodecad) @ 1.08
11 90.7% Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) + 9.3% Baleares (1000Genomes) @ 1.11
12 91.2% Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) + 8.8% Castilla_Y_Leon (1000Genomes) @ 1.14
13 90.8% Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) + 9.2% Extremadura (1000Genomes) @ 1.16
14 90.9% Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) + 9.1% Murcia (1000Genomes) @ 1.18
15 90.9% Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) + 9.1% Galicia (1000Genomes) @ 1.26
16 91% Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) + 9% Portuguese (Dodecad) @ 1.3
17 89.3% Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) + 10.7% North_Italian (HGDP) @ 1.38
18 89% Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) + 11% N_Italian (Dodecad) @ 1.45
19 90.8% Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) + 9.2% Canarias (1000Genomes) @ 1.5
20 87.5% Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) + 12.5% TSI30 (Metspalu) @ 1.56


MDLP K16 Modern Oracle results:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 60.32
2 Neolithic 14.52
3 Steppe 10.39
4 NearEast 8.8
5 Indian 4.06
6 NorthEastEuropean 1.22
7 Australian 0.35
8 EastAfrican 0.24
9 NorthAfrican 0.1

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Armenian (Armenia) 3.61
2 Armenian (Armenia) 3.88
3 Georgian (Laz) 5.11
4 Armenian (Vardnis) 5.57
5 Armenian (Vanatur_Hrazdan) 5.71
6 Jew (Georgia) 5.81
7 Armenian (Lebanon) 6.82
8 Assyrian (Armenia) 7.51
9 Armenian (Armenia) 7.58
10 Georgian (Georgia) 7.72
11 Armenian (Yerevan) 7.73
12 Georgian_Abkhazia (Abkhazia) 7.9
13 Turk (Trabzon) 7.94
14 Adjar (Adjaria) 8.06
15 Armenian (Erzrum) 8.19
16 Georgian (Kakheti) 8.47
17 Armenian (Dprabak) 8.7
18 Armenian (Martuni) 8.78
19 Turk (Kayseri) 8.87
20 Jew (Iraqi) 9.06

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 81.4% Armenian (Armenia) + 18.6% Cypriot (Cyprus) @ 2.49
2 95.7% Armenian (Armenia) + 4.3% Sardinian (Sardinia) @ 2.68
3 91.4% Armenian (Armenia) + 8.6% Sicilian (Sicily) @ 2.76
4 93.2% Armenian (Armenia) + 6.8% Italian (Tuscany) @ 2.77
5 90.5% Armenian (Armenia) + 9.5% Jew (Italian) @ 2.79
6 94.3% Armenian (Armenia) + 5.7% Italian (Bergamo) @ 2.81
7 92.3% Armenian (Armenia) + 7.7% Greek (Greece) @ 2.82
8 94.1% Armenian (Armenia) + 5.9% Corsican (Corsica) @ 2.83
9 90.6% Armenian (Armenia) + 9.4% Jew (Bulgaria) @ 2.84
10 54.5% Armenian (Lebanon) + 45.5% Turk (Trabzon) @ 2.84
11 92.6% Armenian (Armenia) + 7.4% Albanian (Albania) @ 2.84
12 96.7% Armenian (Armenia) + 3.3% Basque (Spain) @ 2.85
13 91% Armenian (Armenia) + 9% Jew (Ashkenazi) @ 2.85
14 93.2% Armenian (Armenia) + 6.8% Kosovar (Kosovo) @ 2.85
15 96.5% Armenian (Armenia) + 3.5% Spanish (Pais_Vasco) @ 2.86
16 96.7% Armenian (Armenia) + 3.3% Basque (France) @ 2.86
17 96.4% Armenian (Armenia) + 3.6% French (SouthFrance) @ 2.86
18 55.7% Turk (Trabzon) + 44.3% Assyrian (Armavir) @ 2.88
19 95.4% Armenian (Armenia) + 4.6% Spanish (Spain) @ 2.9
20 92.1% Armenian (Armenia) + 7.9% Maltese (Malta) @ 2.91


puntDNAL K15 Oracle results:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 43.77
2 Mediterranean 33.92
3 SW_Asian 12.59
4 NE_European 3.49
5 S_Indian 2.43
6 Horn_Of_Africa 1.98
7 Oceanian 0.71
8 E_Asian 0.37
9 Siberian 0.26
10 S_African 0.26
11 Beringian 0.23

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Assyrian 2.14
2 Armenian 5.49
3 Turk_Trabzon 6.19
4 Druze 8.66
5 Turk_Kayseri 8.7
6 Azerbaijani 8.74
7 Kurdish 9.81
8 Turk_Istanbul 11.33
9 Cypriot 12
10 Lebanese 13.15
11 Palestinian 13.67
12 Samaritian 14.44
13 Iraqi_Jew 15.05
14 Iranian 15.17
15 Syrian 16.17
16 Jordanian 17.07
17 Abkhasian 18.12
18 North_Ossetian 20.34
19 Georgian 20.53
20 Kumyk 20.54

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 71.6% Turk_Trabzon + 28.4% Iraqi_Jew @ 1.85
2 98.9% Assyrian + 1.1% Paniya @ 1.92
3 98.9% Assyrian + 1.1% Malayan @ 1.93
4 74.2% Turk_Trabzon + 25.8% Jordanian @ 1.93
5 73.2% Turk_Trabzon + 26.8% Syrian @ 1.96
6 98.9% Assyrian + 1.1% Sakilli @ 1.96
7 98.9% Assyrian + 1.1% North_Kannadi @ 1.96
8 97.2% Assyrian + 2.8% Romani @ 1.98
9 93.5% Assyrian + 6.5% Cypriot @ 1.98
10 98.8% Assyrian + 1.2% Tamil_Nadu_SC @ 1.98
11 98.9% Assyrian + 1.1% Uttar_Pradesh_SC @ 2
12 98.5% Assyrian + 1.5% Sardinian @ 2.02
13 92.3% Assyrian + 7.7% Druze @ 2.03
14 98.9% Assyrian + 1.1% Kanjar @ 2.03
15 98.9% Assyrian + 1.1% Tharus @ 2.03
16 99% Assyrian + 1% Bengali @ 2.04
17 99% Assyrian + 1% Tamil_Nadu_Brahmin @ 2.06
18 99% Assyrian + 1% UP_Muslim @ 2.07
19 99.5% Assyrian + 0.5% Melanesian @ 2.07
20 96.4% Assyrian + 3.6% Samaritian @ 2.08

What are the differences in these calculators? Which is the more reliable one?

[FinalFlash]

No this sample is from 6000 years ago, so I don't know why you would think it would be similar to modern day Armenians.
And yes right now much points to the Armenian language coming from the west but Armenians have very little Steppe meaning they are mostly Indo-Europeanized natives.

I mean the studies I've reviewed pointed to 4,000 years of genetic homigeniety. This sample is 2,000 years older and likely before our ethnogenesis. Its very interesting to say the least. Do they mention the regions of where these samples were obtained?

[Aren]

I mean the studies I've reviewed pointed to 4,000 years of genetic homigeniety. This sample is 2,000 years older and likely before our ethnogenesis. Its very interesting to say the least. Do they mention the regions of where these samples were obtained?

There are much later samples from Armenia aswell, from Bronze Age and early Iron Age but they are low quality and shift very towards Europe/Steppe. Maybe once we have Hurrians, Phrygians, Hitties and other samples from Eastern Anatolia the picture might get clearer.

[FinalFlash]

There are much later samples from Armenia aswell, from Bronze Age and early Iron Age but they are low quality and shift very towards Europe/Steppe. Maybe once we have Hurrians, Phrygians, Hitties and other samples from Eastern Anatolia the picture might get clearer.

It's hard to imagine a heavy European shifted population to end up where they have now, especially a relatively insular one lol. But hey at least we cluster in our lands which is A OK to me.

Can you tell me what these components mean and which regions they peak?

1 East_Med 36.37
2 West_Asian 36.33
3 West_Med 14.84
4 Red_Sea 6.12
5 South_Asian 1.75
6 North_Atlantic 1.74
7 Baltic 1.11
8 Oceanian 0.88
9 Amerindian 0.79
10 Siberian 0.08

Or just these different calculators basically lol

[nightrider+]

It's hard to imagine a heavy European shifted population to end up where they have now, especially a relatively insular one lol. But hey at least we cluster in our lands which is A OK to me.They were not heavily European shifted, forget about Gedmatch crap. They plot close to modern Turks. Also iirc Chalcolithic was more Euro-shifted than Bronze Age.

[Aren]

It's hard to imagine a heavy European shifted population to end up where they have now, especially a relatively insular one lol. But hey at least we cluster in our lands which is A OK to me.

Well the Maykop culture on the Caucasus foothills was very EHG shifted and it's not far from modern day Armenia. There was even a Bronze Age sample from far NW Iran close to the Iraqi/Turkish border who was basically 50% Yamnaya/Steppe. But it's pretty clear the very European shifted Armenian samples from the Bronze Age are not really ancestors to modern people of the area today.

[FinalFlash]

They were not heavily European shifted, forget about Gedmatch crap. They plot close to modern Turks. Also iirc Chalcolithic was more Euro-shifted than Bronze Age.

A couple of those samples did match with Greek and Italians in the top 20. The only Greeks that match with our modern day samples are Cypriots and Pontians. Not sure about those extreme South euros but I did remember seeing them every now and again in the top 20 for certain Armenian results.

What's wrong with Gedmatch btw? I generally thought that Ancestry DNA was sufficient enough but apparently Gedmatch goes into details a bit more.

[nightrider+]

A couple of those samples did match with Greek and Italians in the top 20. The only Greeks that match with our modern day samples are Cypriots and Pontians. Not sure about those extreme South euros but I did remember seeing them every now and again in the top 20 for certain Armenian results.

What's wrong with Gedmatch btw? I generally thought that Ancestry DNA was sufficient enough but apparently Gedmatch goes into details a bit more.

Gedmatch forcibly fits everything to available samples and you end up with "fits" with huge distances. You have to know how to interpret the results.

Like I said Chalcolithic Armenia is more Euro-HG shifted than Early Bronze Age which has very low levels of it but then it rises to even higher ones in MLBA. I don't know if it's because of poor quality samples or genetic diversity of the era, it's weird though. Still, they are not far from modern day Anatolians/Caucasians. Modern Armenians have extra Levantine/Mesopotamian (and maybe even South Asian) ancestry.

https://i.imgur.com/BteIiVN.png

https://i.imgur.com/1N1SEiX.png

[FinalFlash]

Yeah I guess it really isnt that big of a difference. The SW Asian input in modern day East Armenians is still a bit lower and the Caucasus is higher relative to WA. I just wish they made the distinction of which regions the Armenians tested come from.

[Gangrel]

MY 23andMe results tell me that my European input is at 84.5%
And 50% of my family tree origin is Armenian.
When you subtract the 50% from the 84.5% figure,
69% of my Armenian ancestry parallels Europeans.
The Catholicos isn't the only Armenian like that, trust me.

Then you are probably not as Armenian as you think. Post your Gedmatch results.

[Armenian Bishop]

Then you are probably not as Armenian as you think. Post your Gedmatch results.

My family tree origin is 50% Armenian.

My Family Tree Grandparents

My Dad's Father: 100% Swiss-German,
from village in Lake Biel Area.

My Dad's Mother: 100% Minnesota German,
from Sleepy Eye, near New Ulm, MN.

My Mom's Father: 100% Armenian,
From Muş (aka Mush, or Moush),
West of Lake Van.

My Mom's Mother: 100% Armenian,
From Muş (aka Mush, or Moush),
West of Lake Van.

[Kamal900]

Significant European input compared to modern Armenians.

Which is surprising really. I thought it was the other way around.

[Gangrel]

My family tree origin is 50% Armenian.

My Family Tree Grandparents

My Dad's Father: 100% Swiss-German,
from village in Lake Biel Area.

My Dad's Mother: 100% Minnesota German,
from Sleepy Eye, near New Ulm, MN.

My Mom's Father: 100% Armenian,
From Muş (aka Mush, or Moush),
West of Lake Van.

My Mom's Mother: 100% Armenian,
From Muş (aka Mush, or Moush),
West of Lake Van.

These are not Gedmatch results. If you have have been tested for your DNA, upload the data to Gedmatch. A Half Armenian should not be 80+% European.

[Armenian Bishop]

These are not Gedmatch results. If you have have been tested for your DNA, upload the data to Gedmatch. A Half Armenian should not be 80+% European.

Then you'll have to wait. I have some technical difficulties with downloading screenshots into this forum. That's why I haven't posted my DNA Test Results here. i'll have to get back to Sikeliot to get help, or get in touch with someone else to help me do it.

As for Gedmatch, I had trouble logging in there some many months ago. I'll have to give it another try, sometime soon. But, I don't entirely trust the Gedmatch system, because it's based upon limited samples that don't represent entire populations. So, I take it with a big grain of salt. I see it as a valid study, with potential limitations that should be explained.

[Leto]

Then you'll have to wait. I have some technical difficulties with downloading screenshots into this forum. That's why I haven't posted my DNA Test Results here. i'll have to get back to Sikeliot to get help, or get in touch with someone else to help me do it.

As for Gedmatch, I had trouble logging in there some many months ago. I'll have to give it another try, sometime soon. But, I don't entirely trust the Gedmatch system, because it's based upon limited samples that don't represent entire populations. So, I take it with a big grain of salt. I see it as a valid study, with potential limitations that should be explained.
I can help you, sir. I use this site - https://imgbb.com/ Just do a screenshot, save the picture and then upload it to the site. A link will automatically appear. Copy it and past here.

And as for GEDmatch, first download the raw data from 23andme, then open GEDmatch.com, click Fast Upload or something like that (they tell you which specific file you need to choose) and the rest will follow.

[Leto]

These are not Gedmatch results. If you have have been tested for your DNA, upload the data to Gedmatch. A Half Armenian should not be 80+% European.
That's probably some old chip. A few years ago they couldn't distinguish ME ancestry from European when a person was a mix of both.

[Ajeje Brazorf]

Gedmatch forcibly fits everything to available samples and you end up with "fits" with huge distances. You have to know how to interpret the results.

Like I said Chalcolithic Armenia is more Euro-HG shifted than Early Bronze Age which has very low levels of it but then it rises to even higher ones in MLBA. I don't know if it's because of poor quality samples or genetic diversity of the era, it's weird though. Still, they are not far from modern day Anatolians/Caucasians. Modern Armenians have extra Levantine/Mesopotamian (and maybe even South Asian) ancestry.

Quality of many of these samples is shit, every calculator gives different results and it's a mess. See for example how they can change:

M578721 Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15
1 Abhkasian + Abhkasian + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 19.244591

M578721 MDLP K23b
1 Basque_French_ + Georgian_Imereti_ + Kalash_ + Sardinian_ @ 10.083319