What's the origin of Y-DNA J-M67?

[Impaler]

I've found recently that my paternal haplogroup is J-M67, and I wonder where it originates from.

[Bobby Martnen]

Not White.

[Impaler]

Not White.

You would better not comment in my threads! I don't need your opinions.

[Livin]

I think its neolithic and can be found among caucasians and middle easterns!

[Bobby Martnen]

You would better not comment in my threads! I don't need your opinions.

:lol:

[Jana]

Native Cucasian lineage :) It peaks among Nakh people (Chechens, Ingush)

J haplogroup ultimately originated somwhere in Caucasia, than it gradually spread to fertile crescent, Iranian plateau, and middle east (also to steppe in the north), so this particular subclade probably took part in back-migration to Caucasus in ancient times.

[Impaler]

Native Cucasian lineage :) It peaks among Nakh people (Chechens, Ingush)

J haplogroup ultimatley originated somwhere in Caucasia, than it gradually spread to fertile crescent, Iranian plateau, and middle east (also to steppe in the north), so this particular subclade probably took part in back-migration to Caucasus in ancient times.

Recently you said that I look like an Ancient Iranian! :)

[Jana]

Recently you said that I look like an Ancient Iranian! :)

Yes, I can imagine you as mix of Romanian and Persian :)

[Jana]

From Eupedia:

J2a1-M67 is the most common subclade in the Caucasus (Vainakhs, Ingushs, Chechens, Georgians, Ossetians, Balkars) and in the Levant (Lebanese, Jews). It is also common in western India, the Arabian Peninsula, Anatolia (esp. north-west), Greece (esp. Crete), Italy (esp. Marche and Abruzzo) and Iberia. M67 was probably a major Bronze Age lineage expanding from the Caucasus to Greece to the west and the Indus valley to the east.

[Maintenance]

Best haplo bro

congrats

[alnortedelsur]

Is that the same as mine (on my profile)?

[Impaler]

Best haplo bro

congrats

You have the same, bro?

[Jana]

Is that the same as mine (on my profile)?

He is J2, yours is J1 :)

https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_J1_Y-DNA.shtml

[Maintenance]

You have the same, bro?

yea :thumb001:

[Impaler]

Is that the same as mine (on my profile)?

Nope, I think it's different but on the same sublcade.

[Maintenance]

Nope, I think it's different but on the same sublcade.

Try to run morley haplogroup predicter

https://ytree.morleydna.com/extractFromAutosomal

[Bobby Martnen]

Best haplo bro

congrats

I1 is the best haplo

[Nanushka]

Native Cucasian lineage :) It peaks among Nakh people (Chechens, Ingush)

J haplogroup ultimately originated somwhere in Caucasia, than it gradually spread to fertile crescent, Iranian plateau, and middle east (also to steppe in the north), so this particular subclade probably took part in back-migration to Caucasus in ancient times.

It is not originated in Caucasia, even the Eupedia page you took info from explains it: ''Nevertheless, it is very unlikely that haplogroups J2 originated in the Caucasus because of the low genetic diversity in the region''
https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_J2_Y-DNA.shtml

Actually the exact opposite of what you have written is true; J spread there from south because as everybody knows it is a middle-eastern haplogroup and has got nothing to do with original Caucasians, especially northern ones

Being common somewhere is not necessarily means being originated there, that R1b for instance found mostly among 'Indo-europeans' doesnt make it IE or aryan, it is Turkic and brougth to Europe by Turkic warriors from Eurasian steppes. Yes, J1-J2 are found in Caucasus and even northern Caucasia but it is brought by Abbasid arabs to spread Islam back in late 8.century as historical evidence also proves (I read it on wiki too) along with persian-pashtun influence via southern Caucasia (over Persia and Armenia)

Please be informed

[Jana]

It is not originated in Caucasia, even the Eupedia page you took info from explains it: ''Nevertheless, it is very unlikely that haplogroups J2 originated in the Caucasus because of the low genetic diversity in the region''
https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_J2_Y-DNA.shtml

Actually the exact opposite of what you have written is true; J spread there from south because as everybody knows it is a middle-eastern haplogroup and has got nothing to do with original Caucasians, especially northern ones

Being common somewhere is not necessarily means being originated there, that R1b for instance found mostly among 'Indo-europeans' doesnt make it IE or aryan, it is Turkic and brougth to Europe by Turkic warriors from Eurasian steppes. Yes, J1-J2 are found in Caucasus and even northern Caucasia but it is brought by Abbasid arabs to spread Islam back in late 8.century as historical evidence also proves (I read it on wiki too) along with persian-pashtun influence via southern Caucasia (over Persia and Armenia)

Please be informed

No.

I said haplogroup *J originated in Caucasus, not J2. Caucasian J2 has nothing to do with Arabs, it's completely different subclade.

Neither is R1b originally Turkic, especially in Europe.

[Livin]

It is not originated in Caucasia, even the Eupedia page you took info from explains it: ''Nevertheless, it is very unlikely that haplogroups J2 originated in the Caucasus because of the low genetic diversity in the region''
https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_J2_Y-DNA.shtml

Actually the exact opposite of what you have written is true; J spread there from south because as everybody knows it is a middle-eastern haplogroup and has got nothing to do with original Caucasians, especially northern ones

Being common somewhere is not necessarily means being originated there, that R1b for instance found mostly among 'Indo-europeans' doesnt make it IE or aryan, it is Turkic and brougth to Europe by Turkic warriors from Eurasian steppes. Yes, J1-J2 are found in Caucasus and even northern Caucasia but it is brought by Abbasid arabs to spread Islam back in late 8.century as historical evidence also proves (I read it on wiki too) along with persian-pashtun influence via southern Caucasia (over Persia and Armenia)

Please be informed

Who the fuck told you that r1b come with turkic warriors?

Nice propaganda troll

[Jana]

Who the fuck told you that r1b come with turkic warriors?

Nice propaganda troll

Some R1b and R1a is present among Turks, but it is obviously not their original marker.

R1b is native Anatolian, and R1a was absorbed from Indo-Iranian people in Central Asia.

[Livin]

Some R1b and R1a is present among Turks, but it is obviously not their original marker.

R1b is native Anatolian, and R1a was absorbed from Indo-Iranian people in Central Asia.

Correct!!!

R1b can be found also among Pontians.

[Nanushka]

No.

I said haplogroup *J originated in Caucasus, not J2. Caucasian J2 has nothing to do with Arabs, it's completely different subclade.

Of course its different, its mutant, it evolved during centuries


Neither is R1b originally Turkic, especially in Europe.

R1b is definitely Turkic, you can read Anatole Klyosov's recent papers about it, if you havent yet:

http://s155239215.onlinehome.us/turkic/60_Genetics/Klyosov/Klyosov2011R1bDNAHistoryEn.htm

http://s155239215.onlinehome.us/turkic/60_Genetics/Klyosov2010DNK-GenealogyEn.htm

History of R1a is still being researched, see Klyosov's words about it here: 77002

[Nanushka]

Who the fuck told you that r1b come with turkic warriors?

Nice propaganda troll

I am not trolling, see my reply to Stearsolina, I never speak without evidence. Prof.Klyosov is an academician from Harvard Medical School

Actually I am expecting your sources to see if you are trolling or not

[Dick]

Some R1b and R1a is present among Turks, but it is obviously not their original marker.

R1b is native Anatolian, and R1a was absorbed from Indo-Iranian people in Central Asia.

Yes. Also Germanic R-U106 is downstream from R-L23 which is most commonly found in Anatolia, the Caucasus and the Mediterranean.



Sub-clades
R1b1a1a2a (R-L23)
R-L23* (R1b1a1a2a*) is now most commonly found in Anatolia, the Caucasus and the Mediterranean.

R1b1a1a2a1 (R-L51)
R-L51* (R1b1a1a2a1*) is now concentrated in a geographical cluster centred on southern France and northern Italy.

R1b1a1a2a1a (R-L151)
R-L151 (L151/PF6542, CTS7650/FGC44/PF6544/S1164, L11, L52/PF6541, P310/PF6546/S129, P311/PF6545/S128) also known as R1b1a1a2a1, and its subclades, include most males with R1b in Western Europe.

R1b1a1a2a1a1 (R-U106)
This subclade is defined by the presence of the SNP U106, also known as S21 and M405.[7][48] It appears to represent over 25% of R1b in Europe.[7] In terms of percentage of total population, its epicenter is Friesland, where it makes up 44% of the population.[49] In terms of total population numbers, its epicenter is Central Europe, where it comprises 60% of R1 combined.[49]

[Dick]

I've found recently that my paternal haplogroup is J-M67, and I wonder where it originates from.

23andme is not good at predicting ydna or mtdna subclades. You may be something downstream.

[Wrong]

Correct!!!

R1b can be found also among Pontians.
Yep. R1b-L23 came from the Balkans/Central Europe to your people. Influenced both the Western Europe and Near East.

It is the oldest clade of the living R1b's today.

[Livin]

Yep. R1b-L23 came from the Balkans/Central Europe to your people. Influenced both the Western Europe and Near East.

It is the oldest clade of the living R1b's today.

But i am wondering witch tribe could be in anatolia!!!

Hittites maybe?

[Jana]

But i am wondering witch tribe could be in anatolia!!!

Hittites maybe?

Hittites, Armenians

[Wrong]

Pontic Greeks

The first recorded Greek colony (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonies_in_antiquity), established on the northern shores of ancient Anatolia, was Sinope (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinop,_Turkey) on the Black Sea, circa 800 BC.

This is the timeframe where R1b-L23 arrived in the northern Anatolia from Ancient Greeks.

[Livin]

I am not trolling, see my reply to Stearsolina, I never speak without evidence. Prof.Klyosov is an academician from Harvard Medical School

Actually I am expecting your sources to see if you are trolling or not

It has to do witch tocharians and other indo-iranians definetly not witch turkic people!!!

These people assimilated into turkic culture thats why.

[Livin]

Pontic Greeks

The first recorded Greek colony (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonies_in_antiquity), established on the northern shores of ancient Anatolia, was Sinope (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinop,_Turkey) on the Black Sea, circa 800 BC.

This is the timeframe where R1b-L23 arrived in the northern Anatolia from Ancient Greeks.

Really?

I though this haplogroup existed in anatolia when hittetes arrived there!



Is this map shit?


https://www.eupedia.com/europe/neolithic_europe_map.shtml

[Wrong]

Lol at Turks claiming the majority of R1b clades in Anatolia are Turkic.

[Wrong]

Really?

I though this haplogroup existed in anatolia when hittetes arrived there!



Is this map shit?


https://www.eupedia.com/europe/neolithic_europe_map.shtml
Albanians are mostly Yamnaya & also Yamnaya-influenced by yDNA as shown here. This R1b clade came from Greece to the Pontics.

https://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/late_neolithic_europe.gif

[Livin]

Lol at Turks claiming the majority of R1b clades in Anatolia are Turkic.

Pan-turkism propaganda :picard2:

[Livin]

Albanians are mostly Yamnaya & also Yamnaya-influenced by yDNA as shown here. This R1b clade came from Greece to the Pontics.

https://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/late_neolithic_europe.gif

I think r1b in anatolia come with hittites and other ancient anatolians but i am not sure!

Turks also have this haplogroup.

[Wrong]

I think r1b in anatolia come with hittites and other ancient anatolians but i am not sure!

Turks also have this haplogroup.
There was a southward expansion from through Kura-Araxes Caucasus, into Armenia and Anatolia which brought Hittites. No Greeks recorded in the Anatolia & Caucasus that early.

Pontic Greeks descend from the R1b-L23 expansion into Anatolia, originally from Balkans/Greece.

[Dekziiro]

:lol:

So I1 isn't white too. :)

[Dekziiro]

Don't answer to this turks on page 2, he thinks everybody is turkish, he even thinks Avars from North Caucasus are turks lol.

[Livin]

Don't answer to this turks on page 2, he thinks everybody is turkish, he even thinks Avars from North Caucasus are turks lol.

Ahahha indeed.

[Nanushka]

It has to do witch tocharians and other indo-iranians definetly not witch turkic people!!!

These people assimilated into turkic culture thats why.

Talking and wishful thinking are no evidence. Who is saying that Tocharians ara indo-iranian lol, any proof? You guys dont know anything about history and latest research

See Zakiev's paper about Tocharians, they are of Hun origin:

http://s155239215.onlinehome.us/turkic/20Roots/ZakievGenesis/ZakievGenesis76-124En.htm#4

''This record of the ancient sources is also supported by the etymology of the ethnonym Kusan (Kushan): ku "light, white", san from the Türkic Sün, i.e. Kusan the "White Huns". It is well-known that the ethnonym Kusan has many phonetic variations: Küsan, Güsan, Gushan, Gushana, Kushan, Kushana, Kashan, Kasan, etc. Analyzing some variations, A.N.Bernshtam expresses his opinion that the ethnonym Kusan is just a Tocharian pronunciation the ethnonym Usun [Bernshtam A.N., 1947, 44]. Usuns are Türks, Tochars are Türks, hence, the Kusans are also Türks, called in another form as the White Huns. Naturally, the presence of the ancient Türkic-speaking area in the Central Asia is proved not only by these the Huns (Usuns, Tochars, White Huns), but also by the history of the Huns (Süns) themselves.''

[Mr_anadolu]

You seriously trust Wikipedia? That is the worse place to seek knowledge.

[Livin]

Talking and wishful thinking are no evidence. Who is saying that Tocharians ara indo-iranian lol, any proof? You guys dont know anything about history and latest research

See Zakiev's paper about Tocharians, they are of Hun origin:

http://s155239215.onlinehome.us/turkic/20Roots/ZakievGenesis/ZakievGenesis76-124En.htm#4

''This record of the ancient sources is also supported by the etymology of the ethnonym Kusan (Kushan): ku "light, white", san from the Türkic Sün, i.e. Kusan the "White Huns". It is well-known that the ethnonym Kusan has many phonetic variations: Küsan, Güsan, Gushan, Gushana, Kushan, Kushana, Kashan, Kasan, etc. Analyzing some variations, A.N.Bernshtam expresses his opinion that the ethnonym Kusan is just a Tocharian pronunciation the ethnonym Usun [Bernshtam A.N., 1947, 44]. Usuns are Türks, Tochars are Türks, hence, the Kusans are also Türks, called in another form as the White Huns. Naturally, the presence of the ancient Türkic-speaking area in the Central Asia is proved not only by these the Huns (Usuns, Tochars, White Huns), but also by the history of the Huns (Süns) themselves.''


Meta ethnicity=Turkic
Ethnicity=Avar
Ancestry=Northern Caucasia
Taxonomy=Europid.

:picard2:

[Nanushka]

Don't answer to this turks on page 2, he thinks everybody is turkish, he even thinks Avars from North Caucasus are turks lol.

? I dont know who you are, a semitic German, talking about my roots?? I have posted so much about it and oh I am so much bored, nobody can know better than me ethnically, culturally and academically! You can read anything you want from my earlier posts if you wish, then just check this video out and pls keep quiet:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6oaO_Mcvq8&t=16s

See how Avars entered Daghestan (552-557) AD if you missed it in the video:

77018

My GEDmatch results thoroughly reflect the truth about my Avar origin, all relate the northern Caucasian Avar to the Avar vanished in Balkans and central-northern Europe as well as makes the related connection to northern India-Pakistan where they were first the White Hun (Akhun)

and fyi, I am a she not a he!

[Nanushka]

Meta ethnicity=Turkic
Ethnicity=Avar
Ancestry=Northern Caucasia
Taxonomy=Europid.

:picard2:

lol

[Nanushka]

You seriously trust Wikipedia? That is the worse place to seek knowledge.

r u replying to me? what wikipedia? everybody here knows that wiki is the source (!) that I find most ridiculous. Check the academic papers that I submit pls

[Gangrel]

Chechen/Ingush

Caucasian

Same as me

[Ülev]

yep, the truth about R1

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=58071&d=1433082322

Kipchak Håkan copyright

[Livin]

? I dont know who you are, a semitic German, talking about my roots?? I have posted so much about it and oh I am so much bored, nobody can know better than me ethnically, culturally and academically! You can read anything you want from my earlier posts if you wish, then just check this video out and pls keep quiet:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6oaO_Mcvq8&t=16s

See how Avars entered Daghestan (552-557) AD if you missed it in the video:

77018

My GEDmatch results thoroughly reflect the truth about my Avar origin, all relate the northern Caucasian Avar to the Avar vanished in Balkans and central-northern Europe as well as makes the related connection to northern India-Pakistan where they were first the White Hun (Akhun)

and fyi, I am a she not a he!



Very nice all these things about avars,Turkish,Caucasian etc But r1b has not connection with Turkish people.
You can found it among them because tocharians and other iranian groups assilimated by Turks.

[Wrong]

R1a and R1b in Central Asia was Europid before it was absorbed & mixed with later-coming Mongoloid and Turkic peoples in the East, for the last 3000 years.

Tocharians were mainly Europid with some Mongoloid admix through mtDNA. Mongoloid women prefered the more hung Europid men.

[Mr_anadolu]

Just saying because I can add allot of misleading information on Wikipedia to if I like so for me it's not the right source .

[Dekziiro]

? I dont know who you are, a semitic German, talking about my roots?? I have posted so much about it and oh I am so much bored, nobody can know better than me ethnically, culturally and academically! You can read anything you want from my earlier posts if you wish, then just check this video out and pls keep quiet:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6oaO_Mcvq8&t=16s

See how Avars entered Daghestan (552-557) AD if you missed it in the video:

77018

My GEDmatch results thoroughly reflect the truth about my Avar origin, all relate the northern Caucasian Avar to the Avar vanished in Balkans and central-northern Europe as well as makes the related connection to northern India-Pakistan where they were first the White Hun (Akhun)

and fyi, I am a she not a he!

I don't care about your results, i'm talking about Avars
"Avars" aka Mawrulals have their own J1 subclade, Avars never had J1 y-dna but ok.

Of course they entered Caucasus, i don't know for Avars but it's said that Chechens and Vainakh didn't mix with them and prefered to hide in the mountains.
But maybe Dagestanis mixed, but still, it doesn't explain their J1 y-dna.

[Nanushka]

I don't care about your results, i'm talking about Avars
"Avars" aka Mawrulals have their own J1 subclade, Avars never had J1 y-dna but ok.

Of course they entered Caucasus, i don't know for Avars but it's said that Chechens and Vainakh didn't mix with them and prefered to hide in the mountains.
But maybe Dagestanis mixed, but still, it doesn't explain their J1 y-dna.

You need to care about my results too because when youre talking about Avars, you are also talking about me. I have all the evidence and support that we are identical, as I pointed out, nobody can ever know better than me about it. If you are a rational person who cares about academia and proof then mark my words as I have been searching about it for years, but if you dont and are an emotional person then you can just keep on talking, nobody stops you, but beware that it will have nothing to do with history

Chechens-Vainakhs are mostly of Khazar origin, you can tell it from their original red hair-blue eye combination (like Avars, who descend from Avar Kaghanate and White Huns). 'Magarul' is not our ethnic name, it means 'highlander' and thats it (but recently Magar-Magyar affinity is also being examined by academia) Ethnically we call ourselves as 'Avar'

Ofc Daghestan is a very mixed place, and it well explains the existence of J1. Saying J1 belongs to northern caucasians is saying like R1 belongs to IE which is by no means proven, and I believe everybody here should know that the displacement of y-DNA markers took place due to the migrations of historical, geographical and political reasons. For a better understanding of the genetics in a certain region, one should take mt-DNA markers into consideration as well

[Noxv]

You need to care about my results too because when youre talking about Avars, you are also talking about me. I have all the evidence and support that we are identical, as I pointed out, nobody can ever know better than me about it. If you are a rational person who cares about academia and proof then mark my words as I have been searching about it for years, but if you dont and are an emotional person then you can just keep on talking, nobody stops you, but beware that it will have nothing to do with history

Chechens-Vainakhs are mostly of Khazar origin, you can tell it from their original red hair-blue eye combination (like Avars, who descend from Avar Kaghanate and White Huns). 'Magarul' is not our ethnic name, it means 'highlander' and thats it (but recently Magar-Magyar affinity is also being examined by academia) Ethnically we call ourselves as 'Avar'

Ofc Daghestan is a very mixed place, and it well explains the existence of J1. Saying J1 belongs to northern caucasians is saying like R1 belongs to IE which is by no means proven, and I believe everybody here should know that the displacement of y-DNA markers took place due to the migrations of historical, geographical and political reasons. For a better understanding of the genetics in a certain region, one should take mt-DNA markers into consideration as well

"Chechens-Vainakhs are mostly of Khazar origin," says who? Just because we lived in the Khazar Khaganate doesn't mean we are related to them. The only Turkic group we are related to is Balkars and Kumyks because they assimilated Nakh nations (Balkar lands used to belong to the Malkhi people who were Nakh).

[Turul Karom]

No.

I said haplogroup *J originated in Caucasus, not J2. Caucasian J2 has nothing to do with Arabs, it's completely different subclade.

Neither is R1b originally Turkic, especially in Europe.


Some R1b and R1a is present among Turks, but it is obviously not their original marker.

R1b is native Anatolian, and R1a was absorbed from Indo-Iranian people in Central Asia.

It is the bottle neck that occurred during the movements to the west, and then "founder effect" that caused the large number of Europeans to have it.

There are several Central Asian Turkic groups, who are the natives of the area, who do not look like a stereotypical East Asian (which for some reason people deem a requirement for Turkic identity???), and they have the haplogroup R1a and R1b as dominant.

Altaians are predominately R1a/b, greater than 54% total:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17633562



Yes. Also Germanic R-U106 is downstream from R-L23 which is most commonly found in Anatolia, the Caucasus and the Mediterranean.

I have discussed this with Stearsolina in a thread awhile ago, but if that is the case, then using the EUpedia source shows us this...

https://i.imgur.com/FqaHfo0.jpg

This cannot be explained away "exported Germanics", as they amount for less than 1.1% of the population (according to Kazakhstan's own population census), yet the results show that U106 as high as 10%. Even if every 10% was an exported German from the last 200 years, there is no way they would all be U106 haplogroup, as not even Germany itself was even close to 100% U106.


Very nice all these things about avars,Turkish,Caucasian etc But r1b has not connection with Turkish people.
You can found it among them because tocharians and other iranian groups assilimated by Turks.

R1b is 20% of the Shors (a Turkic people) alone, not even counting R1a.

http://www.zgms.cm.umk.pl/prace/591-604.pdf

[Dick]

It is the bottle neck that occurred during the movements to the west, and then "founder effect" that caused the large number of Europeans to have it.

There are several Central Asian Turkic groups, who are the natives of the area, who do not look like a stereotypical East Asian (which for some reason people deem a requirement for Turkic identity???), and they have the haplogroup R1a and R1b as dominant.

Altaians are predominately R1a/b, greater than 54% total:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17633562




I have discussed this with Stearsolina in a thread awhile ago, but if that is the case, then using the EUpedia source shows us this...

https://i.imgur.com/FqaHfo0.jpg

This cannot be explained away "exported Germanics", as they amount for less than 1.1% of the population (according to Kazakhstan's own population census), yet the results show that U106 as high as 10%. Even if every 10% was an exported German from the last 200 years, there is no way they would all be U106 haplogroup, as not even Germany itself was even close to 100% U106.





Volga germans? Non parental events?Idk

[Kelmendasi]

It is not originated in Caucasia, even the Eupedia page you took info from explains it: ''Nevertheless, it is very unlikely that haplogroups J2 originated in the Caucasus because of the low genetic diversity in the region''
https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_J2_Y-DNA.shtml

Actually the exact opposite of what you have written is true; J spread there from south because as everybody knows it is a middle-eastern haplogroup and has got nothing to do with original Caucasians, especially northern ones

Being common somewhere is not necessarily means being originated there, that R1b for instance found mostly among 'Indo-europeans' doesnt make it IE or aryan, it is Turkic and brougth to Europe by Turkic warriors from Eurasian steppes. Yes, J1-J2 are found in Caucasus and even northern Caucasia but it is brought by Abbasid arabs to spread Islam back in late 8.century as historical evidence also proves (I read it on wiki too) along with persian-pashtun influence via southern Caucasia (over Persia and Armenia)

Please be informed
Nope, the J haplogroup has origin between the Zagros and Caucasus mountains and they moved down to the fertile crescent later on in Neolithic and earlier movements. As for J2 it most probably originates in Anatolia around the east of it or in the Zagros going by diversity. J1 in the Caucasus is native as shown by the fact that it reaches highest diversity in eastern Anatolia and the Caucasus, also J1 was found in a Paleolithic CHG sample from Georgia as well as the fact that the clades in the Caucasus are more basal than those in the SW Asia suggesting an expansion from the Caucasus region down south. The clades found in SW Asians or Semites is more recent and completely different than the clades carried by Caucasians. As for R1b in Europe it is not from Turks, this is pure madness to even suggest

[Kelmendasi]

J2a-M67 most likely expanded into Europe during the Bronze Age from eastern Anatolia or the Caucasus.

[Turul Karom]

Volga germans? Non parental events?Idk

Exactly the point. I highly doubt the whole 1.1% of the population of Volga Germans are U106, and to make up to 10% of the population U106 from non-parental events would be a massive amount of said incidents amongst a small pool (smaller than 1%, as not all paternal lines would be U106), that would make it highly unreasonable.

Therefore, the following scenario is far more rational:

https://i.imgur.com/5qkq3Dy.jpg

[Nanushka]

Nope, the J haplogroup has origin between the Zagros and Caucasus mountains and they moved down to the fertile crescent later on in Neolithic and earlier movements. As for J2 it most probably originates in Anatolia around the east of it or in the Zagros going by diversity. J1 in the Caucasus is native as shown by the fact that it reaches highest diversity in eastern Anatolia and the Caucasus, also J1 was found in a Paleolithic CHG sample from Georgia as well as the fact that the clades in the Caucasus are more basal than those in the SW Asia suggesting an expansion from the Caucasus region down south. The clades found in SW Asians or Semites is more recent and completely different than the clades carried by Caucasians.

But what you write doesnt show that these haplogroups has got anything with northern Caucasia, they are imported there. The most ancient samples of J2 were found in Iran and Georgia, so even Eupedia says it appeared somewhere in middle east and 'the oldest known J2a samples at present were identified in remains from the Hotu Cave in northern Iran, dating from 9100-8600 BCE and from Kotias Klde in Georgia, dating from 7940-7600 BCE'. A similar situation applies to J1, it says the oldest identified J1 sample to date comes from Satsurblia cave (c. 13200 BCE) in Georgia, and I saw more ancient samples of J1 in Lebanon, Jordan, northern Iran and Turkey as well


As for R1b in Europe it is not from Turks, this is pure madness to even suggest

You can check the posts of mine and Turul Karom in this thread for evidence

[Kamal900]

Ancient haplogroup from the Caucasus. I'd say that you're a Caucasian farmer who migrated to Europe from the neolithic period. I think it peaks among Chechens and etc. The J1e haplogroup among Arabs and Jews is much younger.

[Nanushka]

Ancient haplogroup from the Caucasus. I'd say that you're a Caucasian farmer who migrated to Europe from the neolithic period. I think it peaks among Chechens and etc. The J1e haplogroup among Arabs and Jews is much younger.

You are talking about southern Caucasia, not northern, and its quite close to middle east. Also y-DNA haplogroups on their own are no good to identify peoples origin. As a northern Caucasian girl I always match with northern Europeans the most on GEDmatch, after northern Caucasians, and it matters a lot

J1 among Arabs is not younger but subclades are different, and it is quite natural. I think E1b1b the most common one among arabs now along with J1

[Kelmendasi]

But what you write doesnt show that these haplogroups has got anything with northern Caucasia, they are imported there. The most ancient samples of J2 were found in Iran and Georgia, so even Eupedia says it appeared somewhere in middle east and 'the oldest known J2a samples at present were identified in remains from the Hotu Cave in northern Iran, dating from 9100-8600 BCE and from Kotias Klde in Georgia, dating from 7940-7600 BCE'. A similar situation applies to J1, it says the oldest identified J1 sample to date comes from Satsurblia cave (c. 13200 BCE) in Georgia, and I saw more ancient samples of J1 in Lebanon, Jordan, northern Iran and Turkey as well



You can check the posts of mine and Turul Karom in this thread for evidence
J itself originates in the Caucasus region and had migrated south in various different migrations. I already explained how J2 has origin in the Zagros or eastern Anatolian region going by diversity. J1 definitely has origin in the Caucasus, it reaches highest diversity there as well as the oldest samples being found there, also the J1 clades there are more basal than the ones found in the middle east and are too different than those found in the middle east. So this means that your belief that J1 originates in SW Asia and was spread into the Caucasus with Arabs or other Semites is not true since the clades found in Caucasians aren't found in Semites and the ones in Caucasians are far more basal. The J1 found in the Levant are from a later time during the Bronze Age and themselves belong to P58 which stems from eastern Anatolia.

[Kelmendasi]

You are talking about southern Caucasia, not northern, and its quite close to middle east. Also y-DNA haplogroups on their own are no good to identify peoples origin. As a northern Caucasian girl I always match with northern Europeans the most on GEDmatch, after northern Caucasians, and it matters a lot

J1 among Arabs is not younger but subclades are different, and it is quite natural. I think E1b1b the most common one among arabs now along with J1
J1 in Arabs is far younger than that of Caucasians. The P58 clade which was absorbed by Afro-Asiatic peoples is only 8,000 years old and that itself came from eastern Anatolia whilst the clade among Caucasians is more than 10,000 years old. Ydna is actually very good in determining paternal origin

[Kamal900]

J1 in Arabs is far younger than that of Caucasians. The P58 clade which was absorbed by Afro-Asiatic peoples is only 8,000 years old and that itself came from eastern Anatolia whilst the clade among Caucasians is more than 10,000 years old. Ydna is actually very good in determining paternal origin

Very well said, brother.

[Kelmendasi]

The J1-FGC12 clade which is deemed as "Arabic" is only 3,500 years old itself. Far younger than Caucasian clades like Z2217 which is like 18,000 years old. This haplogroup is clearly CHG in origin, so in other words native to the Caucasus. No way it was spread with Semites into the Caucasus

[cyberlorian]

You are talking about southern Caucasia, not northern, and its quite close to middle east. Also y-DNA haplogroups on their own are no good to identify peoples origin. As a northern Caucasian girl I always match with northern Europeans the most on GEDmatch, after northern Caucasians, and it matters a lot

J1 among Arabs is not younger but subclades are different, and it is quite natural. I think E1b1b the most common one among arabs now along with J1

I guess, North Caucasian cluster more with Greeks, Anatolians, Georgians, Bulgarians and Romanians rather than Northern Europeans.

[Kamal900]

The J1-FGC12 clade which is deemed as "Arabic" is only 3,500 years old itself. Far younger than Caucasian clades like Z2217 which is like 18,000 years old. This haplogroup is clearly CHG in origin, so in other words native to the Caucasus. No way it was spread with Semites into the Caucasus

Dayum niggah. Indeed. I wonder what percentage we Palestinian men belong to such clade in the first place? I mean, I know my maternal uncle's J1e but I don't know the clade of it yet.

[Kelmendasi]

Dayum niggah. Indeed. I wonder what percentage we Palestinian men belong to such clade in the first place? I mean, I know my maternal uncle's J1e but I don't know the clade of it yet.
I have seen that a lot of Palestinian J1 isn't from the same clades as the Arabs from Saudi Arabia or the other Arab nations, but rather it seems to be Levantine but there are some Arabic clades

[cyberlorian]

I've found recently that my paternal haplogroup is J-M67, and I wonder where it originates from.

Seems to be originated in Caucasus Mountains.

http://www.wiki-zero.net/index.php?q=aHR0cHM6Ly91cGxvYWQud2lraW1lZGlhLm9yZy 93aWtpcGVkaWEvY29tbW9ucy90aHVtYi8xLzExL0oyJTI4WS1E TkElMjkucG5nLzgwMHB4LUoyJTI4WS1ETkElMjkucG5n

[Dekziiro]

I guess, North Caucasian cluster more with Greeks, Anatolians, Georgians, Bulgarians and Romanians rather than Northern Europeans.

J2 only peaks more than 50% in North Caucasian people.
And their MTDna is the same as Europeans especially Nakh people (Chechen and Ingush) that's why they have light hair

[Dekziiro]

On the Y-DNA part, obviously North Caucasians are closer to other West Asian populations ;)

[cyberlorian]

J2 only peaks more than 50% in North Caucasian people.
And their MTDna is the same as Europeans especially Nakh people (Chechen and Ingush) that's why they have light hair

I think, light hair mostly depends on autosomal DNA. Not paternal or maternal lineage.

[Nurzat]

Chechen/Ingush

Caucasian

Same as me

same as me (J2a1b* / J-M67). it is found in good numbers also in Ukraine and Austria (over 10%), where I inherit it from.

Caucasus Hunter Gatherer (CHG), approx 7770 BCE:
yDNA J2a1h1, mtDNA H13a

me:
yDNA J2a1b*, mtDNA H14a

quite similar xD

[Impaler]

same as me (J2a1b* / J-M67). it is found in good numbers also in Ukraine and Austria (over 10%), where I inherit it from.

Caucasus Hunter Gatherer (CHG), approx 7770 BCE:
yDNA J2a1h1, mtDNA H13a

me:
yDNA J2a1b*, mtDNA H14a

quite similar xD

What's your paternal ancestry?

[Joso]

Middle east or Caucasus

[Ryuk]

Zagros-caucasus mountain system.
Oldest examples came from those regions.

[Nurzat]

What's your paternal ancestry?

my dad's side is fully Ukrainian (Carpathian Rusnak / Rusyn / Hutsul / Ruthenian, they are called different names). except that paternal grandma is part Goral Polish (her mom) and paternal grandpa is most probably part German (our village was a shared German-Ruthenian colony until WW2, after which only the Ruthenians stayed).

the paternal hg could come from Ukrainians or from Germans by my ancestry, it is found in both groups. this really is a common hg, found in all Central Europe in small to moderate percentage, in Eastern Europe (Black Sea shores all around) and in large percentage in the Eastern Mediterranean (Italy, Greece, Turkey). also in Jews (who probably helped this hg into Central and Eastern Europe) but I never score any Ashkenazi or Red Sea, so it's probably just older.

this hg is fairly popular in Central Asia too, as East as Uyghurs and it is even found on the western coast of India. it may have entered it with agriculture.

[Fiko0]

You are talking about southern Caucasia, not northern, and its quite close to middle east. Also y-DNA haplogroups on their own are no good to identify peoples origin. As a northern Caucasian girl I always match with northern Europeans the most on GEDmatch, after northern Caucasians, and it matters a lot

J1 among Arabs is not younger but subclades are different, and it is quite natural. I think E1b1b the most common one among arabs now along with J1

The high peak of nationalism in you causing for stupid comments like saying J2 originated in middle-east from arabs. What about the very high J2a frequencies among Uyghurs and Uzbeks in Xinjang(Turkistan) and Azeri's etc? Also among north-caucasian Turkic people J2a is very high like Balkars and Kumyks. J2a is one of the dominant haplogroup in north-caucasia. Stop talking nonsense and read this first:

http://www.haplogruplar.com/antik-j2-haplogrubu-ornekleri-otozomal-gen-yapisi/

[Voskos]

In A multistep process for the dispersal of a Y chromosomal lineage in the Mediterranean area, Patrizia Malaspina and colleagues identified "Network 1.2", a group of chromosomes identified by a deletion in the DYS413 locus:

Chromosomes grouped into network 1.2 are identified by short CA repeats (<=18) in both PCR fragments at DYS413. All chromosomes within this group can be linked to each other in a network by assuming insertion or deletion of a single CA unit in one of the fragments. By the same criterion, they could not be linked to any other chromosome in a sample of 1801 chromosomes (Malaspina et al. 2000) from Western Eurasia and North Africa.

These chromosomes all belonged to the J2-M172 clade of the Y-chromosome phylogeny, and in the latest phylogenetic revisions, they are now termed as J2a1.

Intriguingly, Malaspina et al. carried out a microsatellite diversity analysis within Network 1.2, which I have not seen repeated on a regional basis since. The results of this analysis:

The largest variances, after averaging across the four loci, are found in Continental Greece, Crete and Romania (>0.40),followed by Continental Turkey (0.36) and Italy (0.32). A super-pool consisting of all typed network 1.2 chromosomes from West Asia, except Turkey, produced the low value of 0.31. Considering that the area from which a population spread is generally characterized by a comparatively higher genetic variance than the areas colonized later (Wooding & Ward, 1997; Barbujani, 2000), these data identify the Balkans, Aegean and Anatolia as the possible homeland harbouring the largest variation within network 1.2, with decreasing values both east/south-east and west of it.

[Agarthan]

The Russians carried out the most serious ethnic cleansing in their history in the Caucasus. Since a systematic state could not dominate the Caucasus at that time, only some Circassians and kumuks remember the dimensions of this cleansing. The Chechens (who, together with the Ingush, have the most possession of the J-M67) seem to have forgotten their Russian hostility and their history of forcible destruction and become Arabists. In any case, most of the J-M67s that remain in the Caucasus, I think, are those who accept the Russian pressure. Ours is gone. All of them came to Turkey in the early 1800s.

We are Hungarians, Khazars, Kipchaks and, above all, Uzs who are here. The history of the region is distorted with a few ethnos invented around dynasties that spoke a few of the dozens of languages that were thrown into the dustbin of the forgotten ones due to religious wars. Almost all of the geographical places in the region are Turkish-Pre-Turkish or Hungarian. In many sub-branches of J-M67 you will find a connection to the medieval Hun as well as the connection of the pontic steppe (Cumans)

Yet the spoiled children of the treacherous Greek blood continue to confuse their own ignorance with wisdom.

[placebo]

same as me (J2a1b* / J-M67). it is found in good numbers also in Ukraine and Austria (over 10%), where I inherit it from.

Caucasus Hunter Gatherer (CHG), approx 7770 BCE:
yDNA J2a1h1, mtDNA H13a

me:
yDNA J2a1b*, mtDNA H14a

quite similar xD


What's your paternal ancestry?

https://i.imgur.com/oGKLaCH.png

is this same as mine? i don't know much anything about haplos.