Xhaka and Shaqiri face 2 match bans over 'eagle gesture'

[Dukagjini]

So Xhaka and Shaqiri face two match bans. The most stupid thing I've ever seen. Fans chanting ubi siptari, ubi siptari to them all game long wearing Ratko Mladic shirts and you want to ban the players subject to the discrimination for retaliating with an eagle sign.

Anyways the whole basis of this 'controversy' is so fucking dumb. Does FIFA have anything better to do? It's a fucking harmless gesture not a nazi salute. What does this accomplish someone please tell me?

[Dukagjini]

article: https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/44592846

[Hulu]

Face and have been struck are 2 different things . I doubt they will. Swiss federation is backing them.

[Trilecce]

So Xhaka and Shaqiri face two match bans. The most stupid thing I've ever seen. Fans chanting ubi siptari, ubi siptari to them all game long wearing Ratko Mladic shirts and you want to ban the players subject to the discrimination for retaliating with an eagle sign.

Anyways the whole basis of this 'controversy' is so fucking dumb. Does FIFA have anything better to do? It's a fucking harmless gesture not a nazi salute. What does this accomplish someone please tell me?

This is crazy. You can rip of your shirt. Throw yourself on the ground and hump the grass, you can taunt the opposing team, but you can not represent your national flag... In a game btw that hoists the very flag that he is trying to represent with a hand gesture. Very funny.

[Dukagjini]

They are not going to be banned. https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/jun/25/swiss-xhaka-shaqiri-escape-ban-celebration-serbia

[Skerdilaid]

Serbs have a ginormous vagina

[Hulu]

Swiss captain was fined too , lol

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DgU93JwWsAAsDRH?format=jpg

[Vožd]

Serbs have a ginormous vagina

Why great "patriot" dont show eagle here?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ND-VEp99iBs

[catgeorge]

never mix politics with sport. It is offensive to many people in the world cup. This is what happens with low IQ zombies.

[Dukagjini]

never mix politics with sport. It is offensive to many people in the world cup. This is what happens with low IQ zombies.

the fans in the stands were chanting ubi siptari to them all game long at most the eagle is a retaliation against them.

[catgeorge]

the fans in the stands were chanting ubi siptari to them all game long at most the eagle is a retaliation against them.

The fans don't get paid 5 million euros per match it is a show of lack of professionalism and low IQ

[Dukagjini]

The fans don't get paid 5 million euros per match it is a show of lack of professionalism and low IQ

very hard to take the high road when someone is chanting racist shit to you, especially when your teammates like behrami's family was deeply affected by the war.

[Vožd]

the fans in the stands were chanting ubi siptari to them all game long at most the eagle is a retaliation against them.

Idiots, but he provoked first:

https://slika.nezavisne.rs/2018/05/750x450/20180525185429_480436.jpg

[catgeorge]

very hard to take the high road when someone is chanting racist shit to you, especially when your teammates like behrami's family was deeply affected by the war.

bro - I am not too interested getting too involved in this. Whatever was said was distasteful but the players need to show more professionalism and not mix politics with sport on the world stage.

[Skerdilaid]

never mix politics with sport. It is offensive to many people in the world cup. This is what happens with low IQ zombies.

To Greek and Serbian faggots being Albanian and proud of it is offensive and political at the same time, we get it. But we don't give a flying fuck about it, so live with it

[catgeorge]

To Greek and Serbian faggots being Albanian and proud of it is offensive and political at the same time, we get it. But don't give a flying fuck about it, so live with it

Low IQ'er I am happy you are proud to be Albanian - don't actually care to be honest. But mixing politics with sport is low IQ type stuff

[Dibran]

Low IQ'er I am happy you are proud to be Albanian - don't actually care to be honest. But mixing politics with sport is low IQ type stuff

Shut your ass up. Serbian fans showed up to a game sporting Mladic shirts throwing up CCC salutes. Your point is irrelevant. Now hop off our dicks. If you don't care so much don't comment and go suck your Serbian brothers off you cock goblin.

[Skerdilaid]

Low IQ'er I am happy you are proud to be Albanian - don't actually care to be honest. But mixing politics with sport is low IQ type stuff

Where do you see politics in their actions you retarded mother fucker?

[catgeorge]

Shut your ass up. Serbian fans showed up to a game sporting Mladic shirts throwing up CCC salutes. Your point is irrelevant. Now hop off our dicks. If you don't care so much don't comment and go suck your Serbian brothers off you cock goblin.

You can't ban the Serbs for their fans.

Like we couldn't ban Albanians for this.

You people just don't know when to stop being retarded in sports. I have a long memory.

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-hLX178h3bvM/V2hUOQRww-I/AAAAAAAAA_I/Xxi3n3PhF_8Bq2WycTp-2c96QlfU-wiMwCLcB/s400/Albanian%2Bnationalists%2Beuro.JPG

[catgeorge]

Where do you see politics in their actions you retarded mother fucker?

Your eagle sign is nationalistic

[Dibran]

Your eagle sign is nationalistic

Stfu Anatolid looking trash.

[Skerdilaid]

Your eagle sign is nationalistic

How is our flag nationalistic? Imbecile

[catgeorge]

How is our flag nationalistic? Imbecile

call your parents imbeciles for standing up to these idiots.

1. Those players play for Switzerland not Albania/Kosovo
2. They behaved unprofessionally to incite more violence
3. It was a nationalistic sign and in the eyes of the Balkans a symbol for "Greater Albania"

You keep supporting them.

[Aren]

Wait aren't they playing for Switzerland? Why insist on all these Albanian nationalistic stuf when playing for a foreign team?

[Dibran]

call your parents imbeciles for standing up to these idiots.

1. Those players play for Switzerland not Albania/Kosovo
2. They behaved unprofessionally to incite more violence
3. It was a nationalistic sign and in the eyes of the Balkans a symbol for "Greater Albania"

You keep supporting them.

You're the only imbecile here.

[Skerdilaid]

call your parents imbeciles for standing up to these idiots.

1. Those players play for Switzerland not Albania/Kosovo
2. They behaved unprofessionally to incite more violence
3. It was a nationalistic sign and in the eyes of the Balkans a symbol for "Greater Albania"

You keep supporting them.
As I said, Albanians are proud of their ancestry, and show it wherever they are. And again, we don't give a flying fuck what Serbs or Greeks think about it. Go whine some more, pussy

[catgeorge]

As I said, Albanian are proud of their ancestry, specifically Ghegs and show it wherever they are. And again, we don't give a flying fuck what Serbs or Greeks think about it. Go wine some more, pussy

They should be proud of their heritage but this is not the point here. Low IQer.

[Skerdilaid]

Wait aren't they playing for Switzerland? Why insist on all these Albanian nationalistic stuf when playing for a foreign team?

They play for the swiss team because they grew up there, so it's their country - but obviously of Albanian background. Advertising their origins isn't considered nationalist last I checked, at least in the sane civilized world. Athletes do it across all sports. Serbs are pussies who got their ass kicked in the pitch and now are bitching and moaning like loose vaginas they are, that's about it.

[Aren]

They play for swiss team because they grew up there, so it's their country - but obviously of Albanian background. Advertising their origins isn't considered nationalist last I checked, at least in the sane civilized world. Athletes do it across all sports. Serbs are pussies who got their ass kicked in the pitch and now are bitching and moaning like loose vaginas they are, that's about it.

It kinda is somehow. Playing for a foreign team but the first thing you do when scoring is showing a sign associated with a different nation. Not to mention the Albanian flag on his shoes. It wouldn't be nationalist at all if he was playing for Albania but I gotta wonder what the ethnic Swiss think about all this.

[catgeorge]

They play for swiss team because they grew up there, so it's their country - but obviously of Albanian background. Advertising their origins isn't considered nationalist last I checked, at least in the sane civilized world. Athletes do it across all sports. Serbs are pussies who got their ass kicked in the pitch and now are bitching and moaning like loose vaginas they are, that's about it.

Mixing politics with sports is the action. Don't support mixing it is my sound advice

[Skerdilaid]

It kinda is somehow. Playing for a foreign team but the first thing you do when scoring is showing a sign associated with a different nation. Not to mention the Albanian flag on his shoes. It wouldn't be nationalist at all if he was playing for Albania but I gotta wonder what the ethnic Swiss think about all this.

No it's not. You have players of all sorts of background today playing for the European national teams and non seem to hide it. Ethnic swiss don't seem to care about it and actually in majority they seem to love them. Why the heck not, they put their team in the map. If they had issues with it, I am sure they wouldn't let him get in the pitch with such shoes.

[Queen B]

For the shoe emblem, he actually got the okay from FIFA, I read in an article.If it is true, then it is okay.
For the eagle, even if they innocently claim is just for the flag, and even if it is, this is a political gesture , which is against FIFA regulations.

[Morlak]

Shaqiri and Xhaka act patriotic but they still refused to play for Kosovo and Albania.

As for this eagle i think its been given way to much attention in media, it's clearly a political sign and their fine was justified.

Albanians also seem to love provoking us Serbs in sports events, first that flag of greater Albania in Belgrade back in 2014 now all this.

[Bosniensis]

Xhaka Zulu

What kind of name is Xhaka... H-HAKA I can't pronounce 2x H HHAKA

[Maintenance]

Xhaka Zulu

What kind of name is Xhaka... H-HAKA I can't pronounce 2x H HHAKA

x = dz in albanian

[Vožd]

Shut your ass up. Serbian fans showed up to a game sporting Mladic shirts throwing up CCC salutes. Your point is irrelevant. Now hop off our dicks. If you don't care so much don't comment and go suck your Serbian brothers off you cock goblin.

These Serbian fans are idiots (just like many yours), but this is fans, Serbia is punished because of them, but we talking about players, can you make difference?

You celebrate this "great patriot", because he scored in foreign team (again), do you have some honor?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ND-VEp99iBs

[Hulu]

There's nothing wrong with the eagle sign. It's a national symbol. It's not to provoke anybody. Albanians do it in family events etc. We do it when we're happy. Everybody's Facebook page has a pic with an eagle sign somewhere . This decision should be reversed as it's an insult to us all.

[Profileid]

There's nothing wrong with the eagle sign. It's a national symbol. It's not to provoke anybody. Albanians do it in family events etc. We do it when we're happy. Everybody's Facebook page has a pic with an eagle sign somewhere . This decision should be reversed as it's an insult to us all.

What's an insult is using another country's symbol than the one you're supposed to be representing.
If they're so patriotic, they should be playing for Kosovo or Albania instead of an entirely different team and then flashing ALBANIAN symbols.

[Hulu]

What's an insult is using another country's symbol than the one you're supposed to be representing.
If they're so patriotic, they should be playing for Kosovo or Albania instead of an entirely different team and then flashing ALBANIAN symbols.

Swiss are happy to do the eagle sign too, they are not retards like you who don't understands this only gets Serbs mad because they wanted to strip Albanians of their symbols and language. Xhaka's father was in prison from Serbs because of this. This is poetic justice. And the eagle sign doesn't make them any less Swiss.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DgU93JwWsAAsDRH?format=jpg

[Gold-Shekel]

Albanians don't have it easy from the FIFA, remember the drone incident? Now they do a handgesture to people who chant about killing them and they're supposedly the problem.
If they get fined for this, Serb players should get fined for the three finger salute.

[Profileid]

Swiss are happy to do the eagle sign too, they are not retards like you who don't understands this only gets Serbs mad because they wanted to strip Albanians of their symbols and language. Xhaka's father was in prison from Serbs because of this. This is poetic justice. And the eagle sign doesn't make them any less Swiss.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DgU93JwWsAAsDRH?format=jpg

That's cool, but do you guys have to bring weird decades old ethnic disputes into everything you're involved with?

[Sturmgewehr]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Fmo3oiJUMw

Minute 03:37 Vicic the product of a Serbian Journalist and Albanian Journalist tells the Serbian National team: A PODRAZUMEVASE DA SHVAJCARSKU REPREZENTACIJU UBEDLIVO POBEDITE which in translation means WHICH MEANS I WISH YOU TO UTTERLY DEFEAT THE SWISS TEAM, then the commentator goes on and ask in Serbian SHTO BASH SHVAJCARSKU UBEDLIVO, MISLIM NEMAM NISTO PROTIV DAJ BOZHE, ALI PRVOM IGRAMO SO KOSTARIKOM SHTA NIJE KOSTARIKOM UBJEDLIVO? .......

Anyways the anchor in translation says WAIT A SECOND WHY SHOULD WE PRECISELY BEAT THE SWISS TEAM BADLY; I MEAN I HOPE WE DO BUT ARE WE NOT PLAYING OUR FIRST GAME AGAINST COSTA RICA and then he goes on and says in the end AHAAA IT IS BECAUSE OF XHAKA; SHAKIRI AND XHEMAILI:


In your face VUCIC, in your Half Albanian Face hahahahaha

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/onesport/cps/800/cpsprodpb/A237/production/_102172514_xhaka_shaqiri_epa.jpg

[Coolguy1]

Albanians be like, “I hope one of my 32 teams win!”

[Sturmgewehr]

By the Way Vucic's father is an Albanian journalist named Fahri Musliu, by Vucic's mother admission and Fahri's Admission they were both colleagues when Fahri was working as a Journalist in Belgrade back in the days.

Fahri Musliu has 2 or 3 daughters and if you look at his daughters at his photos and photos of the young Fahri he looks 100% as Vucic.

some News outlets:

http://www.dnevno.hr/vijesti/regija/kao-jaje-jajetu-albanski-novinar-nisam-vucicev-otac-s-njegovom-sam-majkom-bio-samo-kolega-1131711/


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrdGEHLZ9HA

[Dibran]

x = dz in albanian

Xh=J in Albanian. so english pronunciation would be Jah-Ka

[Dibran]

These Serbian fans are idiots (just like many yours), but this is fans, Serbia is punished because of them, but we talking about players, can you make difference?

You celebrate this "great patriot", because he scored in foreign team (again), do you have some honor?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ND-VEp99iBs

I don't fucking care for soccer imbecile. Just pointing out the obvious. The players may have well threw up the eagle in RESPONSE to those Serbian fans wearing Mladic shirts. What does that have to do with the team they are playing? Other than to provoke its Albanian players. Now move along.

[Dibran]

Albanians don't have it easy from the FIFA, remember the drone incident? Now they do a handgesture to people who chant about killing them and they're supposedly the problem.
If they get fined for this, Serb players should get fined for the three finger salute.

Thank you. Someone with common sense.

[Vožd]

I don't fucking care for soccer imbecile. Just pointing out the obvious. The players may have well threw up the eagle in RESPONSE to those Serbian fans wearing Mladic shirts. What does that have to do with the team they are playing? Other than to provoke its Albanian players. Now move along.

Did you celebrated him on streets after this goal?

[Lek]

No. It was Serbs that started it. Same way they started it during the Albania vs Serbia match years ago, the first match. Their fans attacked Albanias bus right before the match and throughout the whole game they were chanting ethnic slurs. The 2nd match was in Albania and nobody even touched them so I don't see how Albanians are bringing ethnic disputes over everything when Serbs are the ones whining considering last time I checked Kosovo is an independent state.

Here you have Serbs in a basketball match chanting to kill Albanians, funny thing is the match had no Albanians attending , now let's not talk when there are actually Albanians present.


https://youtu.be/KBuDS5RyW1g

They are saying 'Ubi Siptar' which means Kill Albanians. This was years ago.

Just being Albanian is a provocation. Many Serb hooligans have been banned from football matches yet they still somehow attended it during the Albania vs Serbia match where they attacked Albanian players.

Albanians have mostly retaliated such as the drone incident, it was done by an Albanian who had experience with Serb hooligans from beforehand and knew what rats he's dealing with.

The Eagle sign is also a retaliation.



That's cool, but do you guys have to bring weird decades old ethnic disputes into everything you're involved with?

[Cool Story Bro]

What's an insult is using another country's symbol than the one you're supposed to be representing.
If they're so patriotic, they should be playing for Kosovo or Albania instead of an entirely different team and then flashing ALBANIAN symbols.

I can understand what are you saying and you are right, but you also need to understand them as human beings. Imagine playing on a pitch and fans are screaming "murder albanian! murder albanian!.." You would feel terrible. They got carried away with emotions for sure. You should be not carrying this amount of hatred on a football stadium.

[Mortimer]

First i didnt like them but now after learning what the serb fans did i can understand it and the eagle is not more nationalistic then the 3 fingers both equally

[Moje ime]

The fans don't get paid 5 million euros per match it is a show of lack of professionalism and low IQ

This.

Actually this is Switzerland's shame if they allow foreign players doing this. Obviously they don't have own "traditional signs" and own tradition.

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

Albanians don't have it easy from the FIFA, remember the drone incident? Now they do a handgesture to people who chant about killing them and they're supposedly the problem.
If they get fined for this, Serb players should get fined for the three finger salute.

To be fair the Serbian team was fined much more than the Albanian players for the behavior of the fans.

For the sake of sportsmanship politics should have no place in sports. However, sports fans sometimes think they can say and do whatever they want just because they bought a ticket. So although a gesture by a player can add fuel to the fire and so it shouldn't be done to avoid an escalation towards violence I can't hold it against someone who is basically a verbal target of the fans to have their 'go fuck yourselves' moment. It's very easy to sit here and say so-and-so shouldn't do this or that but we don't have thousands of people pouring vitriol on us. Nothing they did disrupted the game.

[Moje ime]

I can understand what are you saying and you are right, but you also need to understand them as human beings. Imagine playing on a pitch and fans are screaming "murder albanian! murder albanian!.." You would feel terrible. They got carried away with emotions for sure. You should be not carrying this amount of hatred on a football stadium.

Oh poor them. They could show middle finger if it is about emotions.

[Dibran]

Did you celebrated him on streets after this goal?

Like I said I don't follow Soccer. Even if Albanians were celebrating it so what? Serbs were burning Kosova's flag in the street after the game. And jumped an Albanian who ran grabbing the flag as they tried burning it. Your people ever play the victims. You're not.

[Hulu]

That's cool, but do you guys have to bring weird decades old ethnic disputes into everything you're involved with?

That is a sign of celebration, Albanians do it everywhere to show they are proud of their roots or as a sign of victory, it's a positive sign, no negative connotations to it.

Albanian singers in Eurovision, one of them represented Cyprus

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-vVxv6uuiMpw/Wuomf1tIcCI/AAAAAAAAcw0/fRD0mAsczW0ixeLY5kk_zYKm0Ba1lc3bwCLcBGAs/s640/Untitled.jpg

[Moje ime]

That is a sign of celebration, Albanians do it everywhere to show they are proud of their roots or as a sign of victory, it's a positive sign, no negative connotations to it.

Albanian singers in Eurovision, one of them represented Cyprus

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-vVxv6uuiMpw/Wuomf1tIcCI/AAAAAAAAcw0/fRD0mAsczW0ixeLY5kk_zYKm0Ba1lc3bwCLcBGAs/s640/Untitled.jpg

:D poor Cyprus

[Dibran]

Oh poor them. They could show middle finger if it is about emotions.
Lets see how you spin this story to seem like you're a victim. Serbian fans with mladic shirt shouting death chants against Albanians at a game vs Switzerland. Here we are supposed to believe you weren't provoking Albanian players or our people in general.

Another thing. The double headed eagle is on Serbian flags as well. I have see them throw up the sign too. So stop playing the victim. You're not a victim.

[lleon]

Can't you guys just chill and stop fighting?

[Hulu]

:D poor Cyprus

Cyprus got second place. With Albanians you win.

[Jackson78]

No. It was Serbs that started it. Same way they started it during the Albania vs Serbia match years ago, the first match. Their fans attacked Albanias bus right before the match and throughout the whole game they were chanting ethnic slurs. The 2nd match was in Albania and nobody even touched them so I don't see how Albanians are bringing ethnic disputes over everything when Serbs are the ones whining considering last time I checked Kosovo is an independent state.

Here you have Serbs in a basketball match chanting to kill Albanians, funny thing is the match had no Albanians attending , now let's not talk when there are actually Albanians present.


https://youtu.be/KBuDS5RyW1g

They are saying 'Ubi Siptar' which means Kill Albanians. This was years ago.

Just being Albanian is a provocation. Many Serb hooligans have been banned from football matches yet they still somehow attended it during the Albania vs Serbia match where they attacked Albanian players.

Albanians have mostly retaliated such as the drone incident, it was done by an Albanian who had experience with Serb hooligans from beforehand and knew what rats he's dealing with.

The Eagle sign is also a retaliation.

https://img.4plebs.org/boards/pol/image/1469/28/1469284572988.png

:cool:

[Jackson78]

Btw i think that too much attention is paid to Shaqiri and Xhaka act.

[Vožd]

Like I said I don't follow Soccer. Even if Albanians were celebrating it so what? Serbs were burning Kosova's flag in the street after the game. And jumped an Albanian who ran grabbing the flag as they tried burning it. Your people ever play the victims. You're not.

My comments is not about playing victim, its about your hypocrisy or whatever it is.

[Dibran]

My comments is not about playing victim, its about your hypocrisy or whatever it is.

It is not a hypocrisy. Throwing up the eagle sign has even been done by Serbs. Or did you forget you have the double headed eagle too? It was also in response to death chants against Albanians at the game with people wearing Mladic shirts. You're the hypocrite, for not admitting your people provoked the players and chanted for death of Albanians at a game vs Switzerland. The fact that all they did was throw up the eagle hand sign just shows we're not as primitive as your ilk.

[Skerdilaid]

Shaqiri and Xhaka act patriotic but they still refused to play for Kosovo and Albania.

As for this eagle i think its been given way to much attention in media, it's clearly a political sign and their fine was justified.

Albanians also seem to love provoking us Serbs in sports events, first that flag of greater Albania in Belgrade back in 2014 now all this.

You guys are like retarded children, honestly. Impossible to not provoke. If you can’t take, sit the fuck down and behave. Fucking embarrassing shit man, no shame whatsoever.

[Vožd]

It is not a hypocrisy. Throwing up the eagle sign has even been done by Serbs. Or did you forget you have the double headed eagle too? It was also in response to death chants against Albanians at the game with people wearing Mladic shirts. You're the hypocrite, for not admitting your people provoked the players and chanted for death of Albanians at a game vs Switzerland. The fact that all they did was throw up the eagle hand sign just shows we're not as primitive as your ilk.

You miss my point again.

[Queen B]

The responses are typically Balkan, based on emotion, not rules.

1) They indeed did a political fueled gesture and it is against FIFA regulations. Whether you feel it is justified or not, this isn't ICJU, it is FIFA and its a sport event.

2) Yes, Serb fans have also done things, but they are not representatives of the sport , and they don't play under FIFA. Those players are participants. They are fans

3) Serbian fans actions have had consequences in the past, so their actions - if deemed wrong by FIFA will be held accountable. I'm not sure what will happen now, since this didn't took part under their hosting.

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

To be fair the Serbian team was fined much more than the Albanian players for the behavior of the fans.

For the sake of sportsmanship politics should have no place in sports. However, sports fans sometimes think they can say and do whatever they want just because they bought a ticket. So although a gesture by a player can add fuel to the fire and so it shouldn't be done to avoid an escalation towards violence I can't hold it against someone who is basically a verbal target of the fans to have their 'go fuck yourselves' moment. It's very easy to sit here and say so-and-so shouldn't do this or that but we don't have thousands of people pouring vitriol on us. Nothing they did disrupted the game.

Lolz, Dibran thumbed me down for my post. Albanians are an odd people.

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

The responses are typically Balkan, based on emotion, not rules.

1) They indeed did a political fueled gesture and it is against FIFA regulations. Whether you feel it is justified or not, this isn't ICJU, it is FIFA and its a sport event.

2) Yes, Serb fans have also done things, but they are not representatives of the sport , and they don't play under FIFA. Those players are participants. They are fans

3) Serbian fans actions have had consequences in the past, so their actions - if deemed wrong by FIFA will be held accountable. I'm not sure what will happen now, since this didn't took part under their hosting.

EDIT: Sorry I missed your #3. I'm on my phone.

There are FIFA rules for fan behavior. The Mexican team was fined for its fans chafing homophobic slurs. The belief is if you hurt the team financially for poor fan behavior the fans will realize they are hurting their teams and stop behaving badly but that never works. The fans are caught up in the moment and many if not most have been drinking.

If they want to control fan behavior they would have to punish the team in some way during the game. If poor fan behavior can cause their team to potentially lose the fans will keep each other in check.

[Morlak]

You guys are like retarded children, honestly. Impossible to not provoke. If you can’t take, sit the fuck down and behave. Fucking embarrassing shit man, no shame whatsoever.

Lol man like you wouldnt be provoked if that situation from 2014 happened in Tirana instead Belgrade

[Hulu]

The responses are typically Balkan, based on emotion, not rules.

1) They indeed did a political fueled gesture and it is against FIFA regulations. Whether you feel it is justified or not, this isn't ICJU, it is FIFA and its a sport event.

2) Yes, Serb fans have also done things, but they are not representatives of the sport , and they don't play under FIFA. Those players are participants. They are fans

3) Serbian fans actions have had consequences in the past, so their actions - if deemed wrong by FIFA will be held accountable. I'm not sure what will happen now, since this didn't took part under their hosting.

Why do you think they shouldn't do the eagle sign? It's not an insult to anybody, nor a call for violence, unlike the 3 finger salute that serbs do. Other than hating Albanians for being Albanians, there's no other reason to it. It's the equivalent to the V sign

https://emznadax.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/snn0927win-682_842010a.jpg

[Morlak]

And its not just Serbian fans who sing chants calling for killings, everyone in Balkans does it. Even fucking montenegrins chanted "kill serbs" lol


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65O8WRXaFkI

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

And its not just Serbian fans who sing chants calling for killings, everyone in Balkans does it. Even fucking montenegrins chanted "kill serbs" lol


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65O8WRXaFkI

Balkan people are kray kray.

[Queen B]

Why do you think they shouldn't do the eagle sign? It's not an insult to anybody, nor a call for violence, unlike the 3 finger salute that serbs do. Other than hating Albanians for being Albanians, there's no other reason to it.
When you play for Switzerland, and you do the eagle sign specifically when scoring against Serbia, this is a political statement. And this is against FIFA regulations.
It doesn't matter if it is insulting, or if you think it is insulting, this is politically motivated hence the fine.
Fifa apparently didn't find it particularly harmful, that's why they were only fined and there was no ban.

[Hulu]

When you play for Switzerland, and you do the eagle sign specifically when scoring against Serbia, this is a political statement. And this is against FIFA regulations.
It doesn't matter if it is insulting, or if you think it is insulting, this is politically motivated hence the fine.
Fifa apparently didn't find it particularly harmful, that's why they were only fined and there was no ban.

It's not, that is not specifically against Serbs. Albanians do it everywhere. Why is it any different from the V sign?

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

Why do you think they shouldn't do the eagle sign? It's not an insult to anybody, nor a call for violence, unlike the 3 finger salute that serbs do. Other than hating Albanians for being Albanians, there's no other reason to it. It's the equivalent to the V sign

https://emznadax.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/snn0927win-682_842010a.jpg

If they did the eagle sign to say 'fuck you' to Serbian fans chanting horrible things towards them, then I can understand and give them a pass. If they always do it when they score for Switzerland , then they shouldnt be on the Swiss national team. They can sign up for the Albanian or Kosovo national team.

[Queen B]

It's not, that is not specifically against Serbs. Albanians do it everywhere. Why is it any different from the V sign?
So, they do it every time they score with the Swiss national team?

[Skerdilaid]

Lol man like you wouldnt be provoked if that situation from 2014 happened in Tirana instead Belgrade

Listen man, even though we have been neighbors for centuries we are like from different planets. Albanians don’t insult and provoke their guests even if they are our worst enemies, it’s imbeded into our culture. After the Belgrade incident where our players got physically attacked Serbs came to Albania and played without a single incident.

You should reflect and actually be ashamed of yourselfs instead of throwing the blame around like little retarded children.

[Morlak]

Listen man, even though we have been neighbors for centuries we are like from different planets. Albanians don’t insult and provoke their guests even if they are our worst enemies, it’s imbeded into our culture. After the Belgrade incident where our players got physically attacked Serbs came to Albania and played without a single incident.

You should reflect and actually be ashamed of yourselfs instead of throwing the blame around like little retarded children.

They were attacked after you waved that flag over stadium just to provoke. After Mitrović took down that flag couple of your players jumped at him and then the whole chaos erupted.

And you throw rocks at our bus when our players were arriving in Elbasan. Don't try to act so innocent.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3264224/Serbian-bus-hit-stones-thrown-Albania-fans-one-year-reverse-fixture-abandoned-amid-drone-chaos.html

[Hulu]

So, they do it every time they score with the Swiss national team?

I don't know every time but it is done often. This guy did it in Greece and Italy. Greeks made a big deal about it.

https://static.foba1.com/bilder/spieler/gross/161433.jpg

[Queen B]

I don't know every time but it is done often. This guy did it in Greece and Italy. Greeks made a big deal about it.


So, if they didn't do it in other matches for Switzerland and only did it with Serbia, then it has a motivation...

[Hulu]

They were attacked after you waved that flag over stadium just to provoke. After Mitrović took down that flag couple of your players jumped at him and then the whole chaos erupted.

And you throw rocks at our bus when our players were arriving in Elbasan. Don't try to act so innocent.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3264224/Serbian-bus-hit-stones-thrown-Albania-fans-one-year-reverse-fixture-abandoned-amid-drone-chaos.html

Yes one gypsy threw rocks. Compare that with the whole stadium chanting Kill Albanians. There's no comparison. No matter how hard you try.

[Hulu]

So, if they didn't do it in other matches for Switzerland and only did it with Serbia, then it has a motivation...

Did you read the rest?

[Skerdilaid]

Again throwing the blame around. You beat 20 visiting players in a stadium filled with Serbs, end of story. That’s the cowardice act that you as a nation have to live with. In the aftermath Serbs came and played in Albanian and not a single finger was lifted.


A stone throwed at the bus in transit (by gypsies) by the airport is a joke of a comparison.

[KrashNick]

I don't know every time but it is done often. This guy did it in Greece and Italy. Greeks made a big deal about it.



It's laughable when people associate it with "Greater Albania" especially our neighbors.

[Morlak]

Yes one gypsy threw rocks. Compare that with the whole stadium chanting Kill Albanians. There's no comparison. No matter how hard you try.

Its hypocritical to call us out for chanting "kill Albanians" when you also chant "kill Serbs".


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Bkp1XB3Np8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtLsSczGG24

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7k3pAZ3Fek

[Queen B]

Did you read the rest?
I'm not talking about other players. I 'm talking about these specific players, playing for Switzerland.

[Cool Story Bro]

And its not just Serbian fans who sing chants calling for killings, everyone in Balkans does it. Even fucking montenegrins chanted "kill serbs" lol


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65O8WRXaFkI

Death chants should be eradicated from sports. Nothing good comes out of them.
And everyone should stop using the blame game. If your neighbor does a bad thing this doesn't mean you should do it too. Be better than him. Just stop with this "eye for an eye" mentality (not referring to you necessary but everyone).

[Morlak]

Death chants should be eradicated from sports. Nothing good comes out of them.
And everyone should stop using the blame game. If your neighbor does a bad thing this doesn't mean you should do it too. Be better than him. Just stop with this "eye for an eye" mentality (not referring to you necessary but everyone).

I agree. But its dumb and hypocritical to call out specifically Serbs because of these chantings when literally everyone in Balkans does it.

[Profileid]

That is a sign of celebration, Albanians do it everywhere to show they are proud of their roots or as a sign of victory, it's a positive sign, no negative connotations to it.

Albanian singers in Eurovision, one of them represented Cyprus


Here's an idea: Be proud of your roots in Albania or Kosovo. Or at least do it on your own time when you're not officially representing another country.

I can understand what are you saying and you are right, but you also need to understand them as human beings. Imagine playing on a pitch and fans are screaming "murder albanian! murder albanian!.." You would feel terrible. They got carried away with emotions for sure. You should be not carrying this amount of hatred on a football stadium.

I understand perfectly. But they should have got the fuck over themselves and acted professionally. It doesn't matter what the other person is doing.
balkaniggers are like toddlers.

[Profileid]

Why do you think they shouldn't do the eagle sign? It's not an insult to anybody, nor a call for violence, unlike the 3 finger salute that serbs do. Other than hating Albanians for being Albanians, there's no other reason to it. It's the equivalent to the V sign

https://emznadax.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/snn0927win-682_842010a.jpg

wahhh it's totally different when we're doing it

[Sebastianus Rex]

They are not going to be banned. https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/jun/25/swiss-xhaka-shaqiri-escape-ban-celebration-serbia

Good.

It would be absolutely pathetic if they were banned.

[Hulu]

wahhh it's totally different when we're doing it

Etain, please dont confirm the image of dumb American uninformed about the world that has an opinion.

Here's how a normal, thoughtful Serb talks about it, google translate it.

https://lapsi.al/2018/06/25/une-serbi-qe-u-jap-te-drejte-xhakes-dhe-shaqirit/

[Hulu]

I'm not talking about other players. I 'm talking about these specific players, playing for Switzerland.

It doesnt matter, I'm showing you all other players and normal people do it too when they celebrate. Here Ermir Lenjani did it after a friendly match with Austria, a country very much friendly with us. It's not meant in a negative way.

http://www.tiranatimes.com/?p=126866

[Profileid]

Etain, please dont confirm the image of dumb American uninformed about the world that has an opinion.

Here's how a normal, thoughtful Serb talks about it, google translate it.

https://lapsi.al/2018/06/25/une-serbi-qe-u-jap-te-drejte-xhakes-dhe-shaqirit/

HAHAHAHHAHA SERVIA WE FUCK YUO ANALBANIANS MOST BEAUTIFUL RACE!!!!!!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Hulu]

HAHAHAHHAHA SERVIA WE FUCK YUO ANALBANIANS MOST BEAUTIFUL RACE!!!!!!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

https://i.warosu.org/data/lit/img/0059/98/1421266502413.jpg

[Profileid]

https://i.warosu.org/data/lit/img/0059/98/1421266502413.jpg

How much inbreeding to get this pheno?
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b5/Mujo_Ulqinaku.jpg

[Sturmgewehr]

Swiss beer brewery is putting the double headed eagle symbol on its beer.

https://scontent.fvie1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/36242424_1948754168510736_6358236681253945344_n.jp g?_nc_cat=0&oh=66b841a6d03fd5262b9a46dd362c4bbb&oe=5BAD5BFA

[Hulu]

How much inbreeding to get this pheno?
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b5/Mujo_Ulqinaku.jpg

None . He's better looking than most Anglos just saying.

Now how much inbreeding to get this, or wait incest cause it's first cousins so pretty much siblings. That's right.

https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/images/gettyimages-618569182-1-1524568183.jpg

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

wahhh it's totally different when we're doing it

His hypocrisy offends me.

The three finger salute is a religious gesture (the Holy Trinity, which no doubt few Albanians are familiar with here) that Serbs began using as an ethnic salute. To pretend that is any more offensive than their eagle gesture is absurd logic.

Also, using the 'V' sign for victory as example was just stupid. It was so retarded I wanted to forget I read it but unfortunately I can't and so here we are.

[Profileid]

None . He's better looking than most Anglos just saying.

Now how much inbreeding to get this, or wait incest cause it's first cousins so pretty much siblings. That's right.

https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/images/gettyimages-618569182-1-1524568183.jpg

That whore is German

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

It doesnt matter, I'm showing you all other players and normal people do it too when they celebrate. Here Ermir Lenjani did it after a friendly match with Austria, a country very much friendly with us. It's not meant in a negative way.

http://www.tiranatimes.com/?p=126866

It does matter. It's as much an expression of Albanian nationalism as the Serbian three finger gesture is an expression of Serbian nationalism. If I was a coach of a national team (not a soccer team cuz soccer is for faggots) you're either one of us or not. If you're throwing up foreign salutes, then get the fuck off the team. You're not one of us. There is no room for "nationality A but I'll be nationality B if it means I get to play on a big stage."

Now, as I said before, I give these two guys a pass only because the Serb fans were fucking with them but otherwise I'd send them home. I don't care if they're the best players on the team. You disrespect your teammates and the country you're playing for when you do that.

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

The Swiss team needs to do away with foreign players (which, I believe, is almost every player on the team) and hire John Tortorella to coach them. He creates winning teams just by yelling at them all day.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biZlEtaXbw8

He makes me want to run through a brick wall right now. Soccer players would probably all whine cuz their feelings are hurt but Tortorella gives zero fucks. If you're not going to be stiff, you're not going to play.

[Queen B]

It doesnt matter, I'm showing you all other players and normal people do it too when they celebrate. Here Ermir Lenjani did it after a friendly match with Austria, a country very much friendly with us. It's not meant in a negative way.
http://www.tiranatimes.com/?p=126866
It does matter. If those players never made these gestures scoring for the Swiss team, and did it only against Serbia, it is a political gesture. That's why they got the fine.

[Lek]

His hypocrisy offends me.

The three finger salute is a religious gesture (the Holy Trinity, which no doubt few Albanians are familiar with here) that Serbs began using as an ethnic salute. To pretend that is any more offensive than their eagle gesture is absurd logic.

Also, using the 'V' sign for victory as example was just stupid. It was so retarded I wanted to forget I read it but unfortunately I can't and so here we are.

Lmao. Doing a Eagle sign , dude, isn't a political gesture just because it's against Serbia. Nobody in their right mind should be banned for it or fined.

[Rouxinol]

Apparently it won't take long until the Swiss team becomes the de facto Albanian one...

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

Lmao. Doing a Eagle sign , dude, isn't a political gesture just because it's against Serbia. Nobody in their right mind should be banned for it or fined.

Someone apparently missed my point.

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

Apparently it won't take long until the Swiss team becomes the de facto Albanian one...

Any indication of dual loyalties should be grounds for kicking someone off a national team.

Although, as I said before, if I was the coach of the Swiss team I would have given these players a pass on that day just because it was a reaction to fan verbal harassment. But if they ever did that in any other game they would get a warning not to do it again and if they challenged my authority or did it again I'd throw their stuff off the team bus.

There is no room for dual loyalties when you're representing a country.

Tortorella understands how you should present yourself in national play.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rE_ya_w28uU

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

Tortorella is a total bro. The only issue I have of him is his habit of embarrassing players on his own team to the media. I don't believe a coach should shame one of his players in the media. That should be kept within the team. A coach should only speak positively of any individual player to the media or say nothing at all about them. If a coach has to speak critically it should be said generally without naming names.

However, Tortorella is still a bro. You Eurofags can learn from him.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyFlIwdNLBw

[Jana]

Queen was beautiful woman in young age. Not to mention her style as old lady is unmatched. By the way, they are partly British.

[Profileid]

Do Albanians wag their tails when happy?

[Mingle]

Xhaka and Shaqiri do this to other teams besides Serbia without getting any punishment. Duško Tošić did the three-finger salute against Albania (during the Euro Qualifiers), but he got no official punishment for it AFAIK.

[KrashNick]

Even JCVD did it and was thankful to Januzaj for scoring against England.

http://shqiptarja.com/uploads/ckeditor/5b36b3643fedcScreenshot_1.jpg

[Visage pâle]

So Xhaka and Shaqiri face two match bans. The most stupid thing I've ever seen. Fans chanting ubi siptari, ubi siptari to them all game long wearing Ratko Mladic shirts and you want to ban the players subject to the discrimination for retaliating with an eagle sign.

Anyways the whole basis of this 'controversy' is so fucking dumb. Does FIFA have anything better to do? It's a fucking harmless gesture not a nazi salute. What does this accomplish someone please tell me?

They deserve their bans.

[Dibran]

Illyrians..."offending" the haters since the 6th Century BC

https://s8.postimg.cc/f6ahv230l/unnamed_1.jpg

[Dukagjini]

Illyrians..."offending" the haters since the 6th Century BC

https://s8.postimg.cc/f6ahv230l/unnamed_1.jpgYo is that legit because that's crazy

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk

[Trilecce]

Do Albanians wag their tails when happy?

No, because they may risk provoking a serb with their happiness.

[Dibran]

Yo is that legit because that's crazy

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk

Lmao, I am not certain. If it is real its fucking hysterical. If not, its a really good shop. I can't find anything on it.

[Trilecce]

Dont forget that albanians have gone to jail for this hand gesture. In Greece there are currently a dousin albanians in jail because of taking selfies with this hand sign.

When will it be enough?

[Dibran]

Yo is that legit because that's crazy

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk

If you can get a hold of Di Agostini picture library maybe you can confirm it.

https://lebrechtimages.it/en/asset/512017/summary?context=%7B%22sourceUrl%22%3Anull%2C%22num ber%22%3A16%2C%22max%22%3A95%2C%22min%22%3A0%2C%22 search_param%22%3A%7B%22filter_text%22%3A%22kw%3Ai lliria%20%28regione%20storica%29%22%2C%22explain_s core%22%3A1%7D%2C%22hash%22%3A%22b231521e4afa2368d 2c284dab4850c34%22%7D

[IncelSlayer]

Yo is that legit because that's crazy

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


Lmao, I am not certain. If it is real its fucking hysterical. If not, its a really good shop. I can't find anything on it.

Average albanian-illyrian argument.
You got the eagle from the byzantines, thats some wall carving of a death man hand crossed funeral from a tomb probably.
Time to wake up to reality, theres nothing that links you to illyrians.

[Dibran]

Average albanian-illyrian argument.
You got the eagle from the byzantines, thats some wall carving of a death man hand crossed funeral from a tomb probably.
Time to wake up to reality, theres nothing that links you to illyrians.

J2b/V13/R1B Bronze Age Illyrian graves beg to differ. As do their descended J2b/V13/R1b Albanian clusters(which dominate in majority). Maybe its time for YOU to wake up to reality. Even if that picture is a fake, it doesn't discount the absolute truth, that in good majority, Albanians descend paternally from Illyrians. You can't cry lies to science and archaeology now. Lay your arguments in a coffin and put them to rest.

https://s8.postimg.cc/q26h4axyd/ancient_DNAFinal-1-905x509.jpg

https://s8.postimg.cc/91nkvoq2t/21myr2t.jpg

https://s8.postimg.cc/bx0o216s5/Haplogroup-_J2b.gif

https://s8.postimg.cc/ylpv1qtcl/Haplogroup-_R1b-_L23_1.gif

[IncelSlayer]

J2b/V13/R1B Bronze Age Illyrian graves beg to differ. As do their descended J2b/V13/R1b Albanian clusters(which dominate in majority). Maybe its time for YOU to wake up to reality. Even if that picture is a fake, it doesn't discount the absolute truth, that in good majority, Albanians descend paternally from Illyrians. You can't cry lies to science and archaeology now. Lay your arguments in a coffin and put them to rest.

LMFAO no.Firstly illyrians were never a single ethnic group, its what greeks called the many ethnic groups inhabitind west balkans.Secondly,skeletons found of illyrians were corded nordid, historically they were an indo-european population, the idea that they were R1B-L23/EV13 and J2B2 which are found in albanians only can be at most a joke.Thirdly and most importantly,even if we admit that R1b/ev13/j2b2 in albanians are illyrian, unless we find archaeological&linguistical proof of illyrian-albanian language continuation, we cannot speak of albanians being illyrian, they would be just assimilated natives by proto-albanian speakers,and as far as linguists argue, albanian and illyrian language are totally opposites of each other.

[Dibran]

LMFAO no.Firstly illyrians were never a single ethnic group, its what greeks called the many ethnic groups inhabitind west balkans.Secondly,skeletons found of illyrians were corded nordid, historically they were an indo-european population, the idea that they were R1B-L23/EV13 and J2B2 which are found in albanians only can be at most a joke.Thirdly and most importantly,even if we admit that R1b/ev13/j2b2 in albanians are illyrian, unless we find archaeological&linguistical proof of illyrian-albanian language continuation, we cannot speak of albanians being illyrian, they would be just assimilated natives by proto-albanian speakers,and as far as linguists argue, albanian and illyrian language are totally opposites of each other.

deaf, dumb, blind. The evidence is STACKED against you.

[Jehan]

I'am surprise swiss support them.
I''am already embarass by french team at the point I don't support them. So if two "frenchs" players show patriotic actt for another country, I would ask for their heads.

[Profileid]

No, because they may risk provoking a serb with their happiness.

Why do Serbs love to say "provocation" so much?

[Wrong]

Why do Serbs love to say "provocation" so much?
PROVOKACIJA

[Trilecce]

Why do Serbs love to say "provocation" so much?It tells you about their mindset. Everything is a provocation. Except when they themselves provoke others. Imagine serbs being put to jail for making the cross or putting up three fingers for TheFatherTheSonTheHolyGhost. No one would even DARE call it a provocation. But if WE do it... OOOHOHO.

As i said, in Greece you can go to jail if you do the eagle sign. In serbia, you will get murdered, in FIFA you will be banned from playing the game.... Sick world isnt it... Keepp it coming serbs, i am saving up my agression for you.

Where is my freedom of expression??? Its discussed untill our heads get numbed when its about muslims. But what about us? Dont we have freedom of expression. Why do we get punished for a simple hand gesture??? Is this Stalinist Russia or what???

[Profileid]

It tells you about their mindset. Everything is a provocation. Except when they themselves provoke others. Imagine serbs being put to jail for making the cross or putting up three fingers for TheFatherTheSonTheHolyGhost. No one would even DARE call it a provocation. But if WE do it... OOOHOHO.

As i said, in Greece you can go to jail if you do the eagle sign. In serbia, you will get murdered, in FIFA you will be banned from playing the game.... Sick world isnt it... Keepp it coming serbs, i am saving up my agression for you.

Where is my freedom of expression??? Its discussed untill our heads get numbed when its about muslims. But what about us? Dont we have freedom of expression. Why do we get punished for a simple hand gesture??? Is this Stalinist Russia or what???

If you're talking about the Swiss team making that gesture,then that was already explained in here multiple times.

[Trilecce]

If you're talking about the Swiss team making that gesture,then that was already explained in here multiple times.

Can serbs make the cross when they shoot goals against a muslim team? Do you think that the muslims would advocate their feelings of being provoked? Even if so, would FIFA even take up such a matter?

[IncelSlayer]

J2b/V13/R1B Bronze Age Illyrian graves beg to differ. As do their descended J2b/V13/R1b Albanian clusters(which dominate in majority). Maybe its time for YOU to wake up to reality. Even if that picture is a fake, it doesn't discount the absolute truth, that in good majority, Albanians descend paternally from Illyrians. You can't cry lies to science and archaeology now. Lay your arguments in a coffin and put them to rest.

https://s8.postimg.cc/q26h4axyd/ancient_DNAFinal-1-905x509.jpg




Those are not illyrian graves ydna, they predate them and theres just 3 of them, you can't call them illyrian just because some illyrian tribes also settled in those territories.
The situation is quite simple, illyrians were not a single entity but many tribes that migrated all over the western balkans from the East, they were not autothtonous type.
https://www.theapricity.com/snpa/chapter-VI2.htm

As the Illyrians spread southwestward along the Dinaric Alps into Montenegro and Albania, they apparently blended with an indigenous brachycephalic mountain population which may have been more numerous than the invaders; for, with some additions and modifications, it persists as a predominant element today.
To spare you the reading, illyrians were mainly corded typical of halstatt culture from late first period of Iron age, and the eastern you go into Albania the bracycephalic Bronze Age Bell Beaker flat headed dinarid skulls become largely dominant, even in Bosnia the corded skulls were dominant only in Albania they werent.
At least your r1b-l23 is confirmed Bell Beaker, dominant haplo among them according to 2018 study, and it confirms with the study above of skulls, and with albanians being the most neolitic of the balkans and least steppe/eastern euro, we can safely conclude albanians have the least illyrian admixture from the places were illyrians invaded.
To put the final nail in the coffin, here is Iron Age montenegrin sample clustering with belarusians and eastern and northern europeans as expected.
http://www.foleja.net/index.php?topic=448.0

In conclussion, your ydnas were not absorbed into the illyrian tribes from modern day Albania, they overwhelmed them and therefore your ydnas cannot be illyrian.

[Skerdilaid]

The Iron Age Monte sample is of low quality, you retarded J2a Romanian.

[IncelSlayer]

The Iron Age Monte sample is of low quality, you retarded J2a Romanian.
It is only of low quality when it doesnt suit your chauvinist propaganda,No Iron Age sample, no illyrian sample so the map posted by Debrin above only shows those ydna existed before illyrian invaders, which strengthens my arguments further more.
They were corded-nordid long headed invaders from Late Iron age yamnya's from kurgan steppe, like their skulls from Adriatic to Glasinac Bosnia shows it was the dominant element, except in Albania were they got overwhelmed by the flat skulled bell beakers from the mountains.So going by today albanians autosomal admixture,least steppe in Europe, exclusivistic haplogroups and most bracycephalic country it shows albanians have the least admixture from those invaders groups of illyrians.
Adding to this the lack of any illyrian historical proof or language connection, makes your illyrian past nothing but a fantasy.

[Tschaikisten]

Why do Serbs love to say "provocation" so much?

Actually, no one except our media and politicians use that word when we talking about Albanian moves in politics, ''sport'', etc.

1. Politicans (Vucic & co on first place) must turn off nation from real problems like catastrophic economic and demographic situation, selling Kosovo, destroying everything.

Media must sold news and support ideas of politicians who control them (1.). So when you have that situation, average people here will be obsessed with two monkeys who plays for Swiss more than for own stomach and finances.

Same with news about Croats and their ''ustašluk''. But, thanks to God, Croats and Albanians showing every thay their patriotism, so normal people here (who are still majority) start ignoring that (because they understand their unchangeable politics). We have much worse problems than ''what Croatian youth think about Serbs'' (if you ask me it's even not our problem and we do not need to think about that).

So, full support to Albanians and Croats and their patriotic acts, may Serbs learn how to love and be proud of own nation.

[Vožd]

Illyrians..."offending" the haters since the 6th Century BC

https://s8.postimg.cc/f6ahv230l/unnamed_1.jpg

lol

[Vožd]

It tells you about their mindset. Everything is a provocation. Except when they themselves provoke others. Imagine serbs being put to jail for making the cross or putting up three fingers for TheFatherTheSonTheHolyGhost. No one would even DARE call it a provocation. But if WE do it... OOOHOHO.

As i said, in Greece you can go to jail if you do the eagle sign. In serbia, you will get murdered, in FIFA you will be banned from playing the game.... Sick world isnt it... Keepp it coming serbs, i am saving up my agression for you.

Where is my freedom of expression??? Its discussed untill our heads get numbed when its about muslims. But what about us? Dont we have freedom of expression. Why do we get punished for a simple hand gesture??? Is this Stalinist Russia or what???

Yes, in Serbia you will get murdererd and than roasted and eaten. Later we will rape your bones.

[Trilecce]

Yes, in Serbia you will get murdererd and than roasted and eaten. Later we will rape your bones.

Yes, i know. Thats why we will send you back to Ukraine where you came from.

[IncelSlayer]

Yes, i know. Thats why we will send you back to Ukraine where you came from.

Not before you get send back to Armenia.

[Trilecce]

Not before you get send back to Armenia.

Good luck, we have had greater advesaries than you before. I highly doubt you will be capable of doing anything. This time around you will be meeting more than some villagers with old guns.

[Dibran]

It is only of low quality when it doesnt suit your chauvinist propaganda,No Iron Age sample, no illyrian sample so the map posted by Debrin above only shows those ydna existed before illyrian invaders, which strengthens my arguments further more.
They were corded-nordid long headed invaders from Late Iron age yamnya's from kurgan steppe, like their skulls from Adriatic to Glasinac Bosnia shows it was the dominant element, except in Albania were they got overwhelmed by the flat skulled bell beakers from the mountains.So going by today albanians autosomal admixture,least steppe in Europe, exclusivistic haplogroups and most bracycephalic country it shows albanians have the least admixture from those invaders groups of illyrians.
Adding to this the lack of any illyrian historical proof or language connection, makes your illyrian past nothing but a fantasy.

No, retard. It is actually LOW quality. Everyone including Slavs have admitted as much. This is why it was removed from Gedmatch.

[Dibran]

Not before you get send back to Armenia.

Oh look. Another “out of the Caucasus” instigator. That explains everything about your lack of brain cells and understanding anything about genetics.

[IncelSlayer]

No, retard. It is actually LOW quality. Everyone including Slavs have admitted as much. This is why it was removed from Gedmatch.

Oh look. Another “out of the Caucasus” instigator. That explains everything about your lack of brain cells and understanding anything about genetics.

Keep barking,my point still stands.No iron age sample => no illyrian sample.Coon has already predicted who the illyrians were and what happened with them just by studying the skull, long before 21st century.

[IncelSlayer]

Good luck, we have had greater advesaries than you before. I highly doubt you will be capable of doing anything. This time around you will be meeting more than some villagers with old guns.

This time the only one in Albania who will fight will be the women, since almost all albo "men" are outside Albania

[ilir]

This time the only one in Albania who will fight will be the women, since almost all albo "men" are outside Albania

It's more than enough to make you shit your pants!

Again with this stupid discussion about people being bothered by eagle sign. The most peaceful man in the world did it when he left Albania. Would somebody accuse him of being a nationalist or provoker ??
Do you people find that supporting albanophobia makes you just ridiculous.





http://www.kohajone.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/papa49.jpg

[IncelSlayer]

It's more than enough to make you shit your pants!

Again with this stupid discussion about people being bothered by eagle sign. The most peaceful man in the world did it when he left Albania. Would somebody accuse him of being a nationalist or provoker ??
Do you people find that supporting albanophobia makes you just ridiculous.





http://www.kohajone.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/papa49.jpg

It did not bother me at all that those 2 albanian players did the Eagle sign.

[Trilecce]

This time the only one in Albania who will fight will be the women, since almost all albo "men" are outside Albania

Like hornets, we rush back to defend the nest. They should try someday, just for funs sake.

[Skerdilaid]

It is only of low quality when it doesnt suit your chauvinist propaganda,No Iron Age sample, no illyrian sample so the map posted by Debrin above only shows those ydna existed before illyrian invaders, which strengthens my arguments further more.
They were corded-nordid long headed invaders from Late Iron age yamnya's from kurgan steppe, like their skulls from Adriatic to Glasinac Bosnia shows it was the dominant element, except in Albania were they got overwhelmed by the flat skulled bell beakers from the mountains.So going by today albanians autosomal admixture,least steppe in Europe, exclusivistic haplogroups and most bracycephalic country it shows albanians have the least admixture from those invaders groups of illyrians.
Adding to this the lack of any illyrian historical proof or language connection, makes your illyrian past nothing but a fantasy.

No, RISE596 is low quality sample because it has low SNP calls (not a Polish mail-order bride either). Late Iron Age Yamnya’s, what the fuck are you talking about you demented piece of shit??

[Lek]

.........



Those are Ilyrians. They reached all the way to Albania and brought those ydna's.

Here is some more from Coon from his book ''The mountains of giants'' a study on isolated mountain Ghegs back in the 1920's to 30's , I believe he studied them for 10 years.






Such careful observers of material culture
as Nopcsa and Haberlandt have concluded that
the Ghegs, in their tools, agricultural imple-
ments, furniture, costumes, arid most other
technological details are still living in the Hall-
statt Iron Age.

A single conclusion Is therefore as legitimate
as, it is obvious. The mountains of Ghegnia
were first effectively populated during the
middle centuries of the first millennium before
Christ. The pioneers who took over this rug-
ged landscape were Ilyrians, whose central
territory lay to the northwest. Since they had
already lived in Bosnia and Montenegro, they
were already adjusted; to life in this environ-
ment.

Fortounately, the materials excavated at GIasinac, the type site of the Illyrian Hallstatt
culture, include skeletons as well as artifacts.
The date of this cemetery is between 1000
and 500 b.c The collection of 38 crania shows
clearly that the lllyrians were not a homo-
geneous people in the racial sense. The majority
of the skulls are long headed, and represent at
least 2 contemporary varieties of Nordic. This
is not surprising since most of the Iron Age peoples of Europe were Nordic. However, 13
crania, or one-third of the total series, were
brachycephalic These skulls have flat occi-
puts, straight sidewalls, broad foreheads, and
in the one example in which the nasal bones
have been preserved, a long and aquiline nose.
They are the skulls of Dinarics, and resemble
both the Bronze Age Dinaric skulls from
Cyprus, and the Bell Beaker Dinaric crania
from early Bronze Age sites in Germany.

All of the evidence which we have indicates
that close kinsmen of the Glasinac people
were the very ones who settled Ghegnia, at
just about the tune the cemetery was in use.
We have every reason to suppose that the
ancestors of the Ghegs, in the last 500 years
before the Christian era, their pioneer period,
•were very much like the people whose remains
are buried in the graveyard at Glasinac.
This means that among the Ghegs, character-
istic Dinarics were present from the beginning,
but probably as a minority in the population.








The Albanian language constitutes a distinct
branch in the Satem division of the Indo-European
languages. It is the direct descendant of the ancient
Illyrian of Roman times, together with some Thracian
influences. . ,




Chop chop now, back to your cave. ;)

[Lek]

He also says Albanians aren't really homogenous, same way Ilyrians weren't.

[Dibran]

He also says Albanians aren't really homogenous, same way Ilyrians weren't.

He’s just coping. Doesn’t matter what evidence you show, he will keep making excuses like the rat he is.

[IncelSlayer]

No, RISE596 is low quality sample because it has low SNP calls (not a Polish mail-order bride either). Late Iron Age Yamnya’s, what the fuck are you talking about you demented piece of shit??

I meant late first period of Iron Age(halstatt culture), typical of the steppe east northern european autosomally and like having a higher SNP count will make him balkanite albo at the bottom of Europe genetically.

Even so, it was just an example i found because he had typical admixture for the type of long headed corded skull found and does not change the fact that you ignored the rest of the post because you knew yourself i am right.Facts still stand, the skulls show the least illyrian influence in albanians from the balkans, those 3 samples found in balkans at very different times dont corellate with illyrian period which makes it even much less improbable for illyrian to carry them, and on historical and language part you have no proof you have a connection with illyrians.

http://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-when-the-debate-is-lost-slander-becomes-the-tool-of-the-loser-socrates-67-31-29.jpg

[Lek]

He’s just coping. Doesn’t matter what evidence you show, he will keep making excuses like the rat he is.

E pije ti more daj more daj more daj sonte jena high jena high jena high sonte jena zjarrrrrr


https://youtu.be/5NcUuSVDglM

[Lek]

I meant late first period of Iron Age(halstatt culture), typical of the steppe east northern european autosomally and like having a higher SNP count will make him balkanite albo at the bottom of Europe genetically.

Even so, it was just an example i found because he had typical admixture for the type of long headed corded skull found and does not change the fact that you ignored the rest of the post because you knew yourself i am right.Facts still stand, the skulls show the least illyrian influence in albanians from the balkans, those 3 samples found in balkans at very different times dont corellate with illyrian period which makes it even much less improbable for illyrian to carry them, and on historical and language part you have no proof you have a connection with illyrians.

http://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-when-the-debate-is-lost-slander-becomes-the-tool-of-the-loser-socrates-67-31-29.jpg

Dul lulija te bunari o eeeeeeeeeeee dul lulija oooooooooo


https://youtu.be/6xLNz-QaADw

[Kelmendasi]

Those are not illyrian graves ydna, they predate them and theres just 3 of them, you can't call them illyrian just because some illyrian tribes also settled in those territories.
The situation is quite simple, illyrians were not a single entity but many tribes that migrated all over the western balkans from the East, they were not autothtonous type.
https://www.theapricity.com/snpa/chapter-VI2.htm

To spare you the reading, illyrians were mainly corded typical of halstatt culture from late first period of Iron age, and the eastern you go into Albania the bracycephalic Bronze Age Bell Beaker flat headed dinarid skulls become largely dominant, even in Bosnia the corded skulls were dominant only in Albania they werent.
At least your r1b-l23 is confirmed Bell Beaker, dominant haplo among them according to 2018 study, and it confirms with the study above of skulls, and with albanians being the most neolitic of the balkans and least steppe/eastern euro, we can safely conclude albanians have the least illyrian admixture from the places were illyrians invaded.
To put the final nail in the coffin, here is Iron Age montenegrin sample clustering with belarusians and eastern and northern europeans as expected.
http://www.foleja.net/index.php?topic=448.0

In conclussion, your ydnas were not absorbed into the illyrian tribes from modern day Albania, they overwhelmed them and therefore your ydnas cannot be illyrian.
What are you on about? The J2b2-L283 sample comes from a time period linked to the Illyrians so it is most certainly Illyrian or proto-Illyrian. Illyrians weren't a single entity but they were a collection of tribes that shared similar things like language and culture so they aren't really this umbrella term as you make it seem. R1b-Z2103 was found in Vucedol and so it is more probable that it is linked to them in the Balkans and later the Illyrians and other Balkanite peoples. The Iron age Montenegrin sample hardly had enough SNPs to even predict it's eye colour but yet you are acting as if it is concrete autosomal evidence, actual samples with a good amount of SNPs cluster with the Balkans. Albanian clades of hapogroups like J2b2-L283 clearly post date Illyrians and are obviously from them, PH2967 is clearly Illyrian based on TMRCA.

[Kelmendasi]

I meant late first period of Iron Age(halstatt culture), typical of the steppe east northern european autosomally and like having a higher SNP count will make him balkanite albo at the bottom of Europe genetically.

Even so, it was just an example i found because he had typical admixture for the type of long headed corded skull found and does not change the fact that you ignored the rest of the post because you knew yourself i am right.Facts still stand, the skulls show the least illyrian influence in albanians from the balkans, those 3 samples found in balkans at very different times dont corellate with illyrian period which makes it even much less improbable for illyrian to carry them, and on historical and language part you have no proof you have a connection with illyrians.

http://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-when-the-debate-is-lost-slander-becomes-the-tool-of-the-loser-socrates-67-31-29.jpg
Did you not read his post? He clearly told you that the sample you were talking about is unreliable because of the small number SNPs it had and thus your argument about Illyrians being east Euro shifted became obsolete. You're really gonna trust a bunch of skulls and their shape on who descends from what lol. Btw Albanians do have correlations with Illyrians when it comes to archaeological and linguistic aspects as well as genetic, the Albanian pagan religion had multiple gods which stem from Illyrians.

[Kelmendasi]

This time the only one in Albania who will fight will be the women, since almost all albo "men" are outside Albania
Yh nice one, I wonder why there are more men in Albania than women if they have all left...

[Kelmendasi]

He also says Albanians aren't really homogenous, same way Ilyrians weren't.
Lol, I wonder why Albanians were shown as being the most homogenous European ethnicity in terms of IBD sharings then. http://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/journal.pbio.1001555

[IncelSlayer]

Those are Ilyrians. They reached all the way to Albania and brought those ydna's.

Here is some more from Coon from his book ''The mountains of giants'' a study on isolated mountain Ghegs back in the 1920's to 30's , I believe he studied them for 10 years.








Chop chop now, back to your cave. ;)

Flat headedness/dinarid was brought by bell beakers in Europe during Bronze age they were not illyrian but illyrians mixed with them in Albania , r1b-l23 dominated them according to 2018 study.
Illyrians were groups not a single group of invaders during the Iron age corelated with the halstatt culture with the skulls found being by far dominated by long headed cordeds as expected, except in Albania were they were mixed with flat headed bell beakers that had nothing illyrian.

As the Illyrians spread southwestward along the Dinaric Alps into Montenegro and Albania, they apparently blended with an indigenous brachycephalic mountain population which may have been more numerous than the invaders; for, with some additions and modifications, it persists as a predominant element today.

And the language quote is nothing but a wild guess of the author, from many decades ago, albanian language so far has no connection with illyrian.

[Kelmendasi]

It is only of low quality when it doesnt suit your chauvinist propaganda,No Iron Age sample, no illyrian sample so the map posted by Debrin above only shows those ydna existed before illyrian invaders, which strengthens my arguments further more.
They were corded-nordid long headed invaders from Late Iron age yamnya's from kurgan steppe, like their skulls from Adriatic to Glasinac Bosnia shows it was the dominant element, except in Albania were they got overwhelmed by the flat skulled bell beakers from the mountains.So going by today albanians autosomal admixture,least steppe in Europe, exclusivistic haplogroups and most bracycephalic country it shows albanians have the least admixture from those invaders groups of illyrians.
Adding to this the lack of any illyrian historical proof or language connection, makes your illyrian past nothing but a fantasy.
You do realize that Bell Beaker people had a shit tonne of Steppe right?

[Kelmendasi]

Flat headedness/dinarid was brought by bell beakers in Europe during Bronze age they were not illyrian but illyrians mixed with them in Albania , r1b-l23 dominated them according to 2018 study.
Illyrians were groups not a single group of invaders during the Iron age corelated with the halstatt culture with the skulls found being by far dominated by long headed cordeds as expected, except in Albania were they were mixed with flat headed bell beakers that had nothing illyrian.


And the language quote is nothing but a wild guess of the author, from many decades ago, albanian language so far has no connection with illyrian.
Bell Beakers in fact didn't belong to R1b-L23/Z2103 as shown by samples so idk what you are on about with this sample from 2018, perhaps you are mixing it up with haplogroups like R1b-L2, L21 which seems to be linked with them. Linguistically Albanian does have connections with Illyrians which is why the Illyrian linguistic theory is still around and considered as the most likely theory by historians

[IncelSlayer]

What are you on about? The J2b2-L283 sample comes from a time period linked to the Illyrians so it is most certainly Illyrian or proto-Illyrian. Illyrians weren't a single entity but they were a collection of tribes that shared similar things like language and culture so they aren't really this umbrella term as you make it seem. R1b-Z2103 was found in Vucedol and so it is more probable that it is linked to them in the Balkans and later the Illyrians and other Balkanite peoples. The Iron age Montenegrin sample hardly had enough SNPs to even predict it's eye colour but yet you are acting as if it is concrete autosomal evidence, actual samples with a good amount of SNPs cluster with the Balkans. Albanian clades of hapogroups like J2b2-L283 clearly post date Illyrians and are obviously from them, PH2967 is clearly Illyrian based on TMRCA.
Proto-illyrians lived in the steppe, the j2b2-l283 sample was from 1500 BC , illyrians were group of indo-europeans groups of late Halstatt culture(first period of Iron age).

[Kelmendasi]

Proto-illyrians lived in the steppe, the j2b2-l283 sample was from 1500 BC , illyrians were group of indo-europeans groups of late Halstatt culture(first period of Iron age).
Nope, at around 1600-1100 BC the Illyrians were already in the Dinaric alps region as well as the fact that the items found in the cave where the sample was found share resemblance to Illyrian items. Proto-Illyrians themselves were part of cultures like Cetina, Vucedol etc and not the Steppe as IE peoples had moved out ages ago.

[Lek]

Lol, I wonder why Albanians were shown as being the most homogenous European ethnicity in terms of IBD sharings then. http://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/journal.pbio.1001555

Because that's autosomal DNA and not phenotype. If a modern population is a mixture of different ancient populations, which is exactly what Ilyrians were, and since then not much else has been added then they will appear genetically homogenous but can still be phenotypically diverse.

Here is on Ghegs/Ilyrians




Racially they were probably a mixture of
Nordics, Mediterraneans from the Adriatic
littoral, brachycephals from the same region,
and Pontic Mediterraneans from the Euxine
borderlands. They were able to stew in their
own genetic juice and produce their own
variety of human beings.




You cannot possible believe that such a mixture will produce a homogenous population? Explains why I see swarthy albos, light albos and other physical diversities. Really homogenous... :rolleyes:

In other parts he concludes Malsors are diverse and have phenotypical or regional differences etc, for such a small area differences are large almost like 10 different populations.

Albanians have been isolated and also we have been arranged marriages at the same time meaning people exchanged brides with a certain area probably more than others etc hence genetic diversity there which explains differences we get on pca maps and gedmatch calcs etc.

[IncelSlayer]

Nope, at around 1600-1100 BC the Illyrians were already in the Dinaric alps region as well as the fact that the items found in the cave where the sample was found share resemblance to Illyrian items. Proto-Illyrians themselves were part of cultures like Cetina, Vucedol etc and not the Steppe as IE peoples had moved out ages ago.

They were not steppebut steppe was their ancestors because they were a subcategory of Corded culture named Halstatt from central europe who spread in the balkans and eventually even in Albania(were they found the native flat headed bell beaker from bronze age) and given the fact that the skulls found were almost entirely long headed cordeds like the much older steppe ones with exception in Albania were they were a mix we pretty much have a guarantee of what illyrians were.
Also, the illyrians culture rose during Halstatt culture, glasinac was about 300 BC, nothing in common with the J2B2 sample found more than a milenium ago, let alone other 2 samples.

[Kelmendasi]

They were not steppebut steppe was their ancestors because they were a subcategory of Corded culture named Halstatt from central europe who spread in the balkans and eventually even in Albania(were they found the native flat headed bell beaker from bronze age) and given the fact that the skulls found were almost entirely long headed cordeds like the much older steppe ones with exception in Albania were they were a mix we pretty much have a guarantee of what illyrians were.
Also, the illyrians culture rose during Halstatt culture, glasinac was about 300 BC, nothing in common with the J2B2 sample found more than a milenium ago, let alone other 2 samples.
The Illyrians themselves were greatly EEF admixed as shown by the fact that Steppe peoples in the Balkans assimilated peoples rather than thoroughly intermix with them. Illyrians arose from a mixture of cultures at the time like Vucedol, Cetina etc Hallstatt probably just gave in some material culture because of flow between the areas, Hallstatt is more linked to Celts and so haplogroups like R1b-U152, L21 etc rather than R1b-Z2103 which is responsible for the spread of Paleo-Balkanic languages

[Dibran]

What are you on about? The J2b2-L283 sample comes from a time period linked to the Illyrians so it is most certainly Illyrian or proto-Illyrian. Illyrians weren't a single entity but they were a collection of tribes that shared similar things like language and culture so they aren't really this umbrella term as you make it seem. R1b-Z2103 was found in Vucedol and so it is more probable that it is linked to them in the Balkans and later the Illyrians and other Balkanite peoples. The Iron age Montenegrin sample hardly had enough SNPs to even predict it's eye colour but yet you are acting as if it is concrete autosomal evidence, actual samples with a good amount of SNPs cluster with the Balkans. Albanian clades of hapogroups like J2b2-L283 clearly post date Illyrians and are obviously from them, PH2967 is clearly Illyrian based on TMRCA.

Hesss back. Mir se u ktheva

[Dibran]

Flat headedness/dinarid was brought by bell beakers in Europe during Bronze age they were not illyrian but illyrians mixed with them in Albania , r1b-l23 dominated them according to 2018 study.
Illyrians were groups not a single group of invaders during the Iron age corelated with the halstatt culture with the skulls found being by far dominated by long headed cordeds as expected, except in Albania were they were mixed with flat headed bell beakers that had nothing illyrian.



Skull shape is irrelevant you turd. There are numerous Albanians with the same haplogroup and different taxonomy/phenotype. Skull shape does not equate to haplogroup but to autosomal genetics over time. Haplogroups only represent a percent of the entire genome. It’s irrelevant whether or not the phenotypes have changed. Albanians still largely descend from Illyrians patrilineally. Get over it. Even genetics is proving this and you’re still coping.

[Kelmendasi]

Hesss back. Mir se u ktheva
Lol thanks, not for long though. Im gonna go to Albania in a few days so i'll be off for a while I guess

[Dibran]

Lol thanks, not for long though. Im gonna go to Albania in a few days so i'll be off for a while I guess

Enjoy. Hopefully I can go one day. My whole immediate family pretty much went to Sweden and here in the US.

[IncelSlayer]

Bell Beakers in fact didn't belong to R1b-L23/Z2103 as shown by samples so idk what you are on about with this sample from 2018, perhaps you are mixing it up with haplogroups like R1b-L2, L21 which seems to be linked with them. Linguistically Albanian does have connections with Illyrians which is why the Illyrian linguistic theory is still around and considered as the most likely theory by historians

r1b-l23 with different subclades dominated among Bell Beakers,they came from Armenia Shulaveri-Shomu culture and were the first ones to introduce flat occiput(brachy skulls) in Europe, r1b-l23/z2103 was western yamnayan who was absorbed into eastern bell beaker group and through a founder effect spread into the balkans were it also gave rise to bracycephaly through bronze age cultures like Vucedol/Shomo/Soimus..

Illyrians were part of the Halstatt cultures during Iron Age who came from the Corded Ware culture.
Again this is all supported by the skulls found, illyrians were long headed corded nordids unlike the bronze age native bracycephalic bell beakers they found in Albania.


in Mathieson et al. (2018), a sample classified as of Ukraine_Eneolithic from Dereivka ca. 2890-2696 BC is of R1b1a1a2a2-Z2103 subclade, so Western Yamna during the migrations also of R1b-L23 subclades, in contrast with the previous R1a lineages in Ukraine. In Olalde et al. (2018).
This is compatible with the expansion of Indo-European-speaking Yamna migrants (also mainly of R1b-L23 subclades) into the East Bell Beaker group, as described with detail in Archaeology (and with the population movement we are seeing having been predicted) first by Volker Heyd in 2007.

This is why where R1b-l23 dominated(Albanians,greece(arvanites), West Romania and Armenia only!),Coon himself said, before any genetic tests, that romanians from west transylvania are indistinguishable from albanians and albanians are almost identical to armenians.https://blogs.sapo.pt/cloud/file/eb6b52b82097d41dfa0e5797a2fa7945/olympusmons/2016/From%20Shulaveri%20to%20Bell%20beaker.pdf
http://bellbeakerblogger.blogspot.com/2015/09/the-brachycephalic-problematic.html

FROM SHULAVERISHOMU
TO BELL
BEAKER “SHULAVERI-SHOMU IS THE BIRTH OF THE R1B EXPANSION!
https://blogs.sapo.pt/cloud/file/eb6b52b82097d41dfa0e5797a2fa7945/olympusmons/2016/From%20Shulaveri%20to%20Bell%20beaker.pdf

[Kelmendasi]

Enjoy. Hopefully I can go one day. My whole immediate family pretty much went to Sweden and here in the US.
Thanks, this time I will be going around Albania and actually enjoying it as before I would just stay in the same city which would get boring, i'm planning on going to Theth and other areas like that

[Kelmendasi]

r1b-l23 with different subclades dominated among Bell Beakers,they came from Armenia Shulaveri-Shomu culture and were the first ones to introduce flat occiput(brachy skulls) in Europe, r1b-l23/z2103 was western yamnayan who was absorbed into eastern bell beaker group and through a founder effect spread into the balkans were it also gave rise to bracycephaly through bronze age cultures like Vucedol and Shomo.

Illyrians were part of the Halstatt cultures during Iron Age who came from the Corded Ware culture.
Again this is all supported by the skulls found, illyrians were long headed corded nordids unlike the bronze age native bracycephalic bell beakers they found in Albania.



This is why where R1b-l23 dominated(Albanians,greece(arvanites), West Romania and Armenia only!),Coon himself said, before any genetic tests, that romanians from west transylvania are indistinguishable from albanians and albanians are almost identical to armenians.https://blogs.sapo.pt/cloud/file/eb6b52b82097d41dfa0e5797a2fa7945/olympusmons/2016/From%20Shulaveri%20to%20Bell%20beaker.pdf
http://bellbeakerblogger.blogspot.com/2015/09/the-brachycephalic-problematic.html

FROM SHULAVERISHOMU
TO BELL
BEAKER “SHULAVERI-SHOMU IS THE BIRTH OF THE R1B EXPANSION!
https://blogs.sapo.pt/cloud/file/eb6b52b82097d41dfa0e5797a2fa7945/olympusmons/2016/From%20Shulaveri%20to%20Bell%20beaker.pdf
xD, nice one m8. the clades spread by Bell Beakers were different than that spread by Paleo-Balkan groups, Z2103 is completely different from the P312 clades spread by Bell Beakers. I don't think you know much about these things, Bell Beakers are completely different from the Shulaveri-Shomu, the Shulaveri-Shomu gave rise to cultures like the Kura-Araxes (Who had no R1b going by aDNA) and Trialeti culture both of which are unrelated to IE cultures like Bell Beakers as well as the fact that Shulaveri-Shomu is a Neolithic culture. Bell Beakers never reached Albania my guy, only material cultures similar to it have been found. The L23 clades in Armenia are unrelated to that found in the Balkans and the clade in the Balkans relates to the movement of Albanians so it more recent. Albanians are different from Armenians but oh well. The link you posted isn't from an actual peer-reviewed paper, it's made by some guy who is fixated with Shulaveri-Shomu and is the only guy that says that Bell Beaker comes from this culture

[IncelSlayer]

xD, nice one m8. the clades spread by Bell Beakers were different than that spread by Paleo-Balkan groups, Z2103 is completely different from the P312 clades spread by Bell Beakers. I don't think you know much about these things, Bell Beakers are completely different from the Shulaveri-Shomu, the Shulaveri-Shomu gave rise to cultures like the Kura-Araxes (Who had no R1b going by aDNA) and Trialeti culture both of which are unrelated to IE cultures like Bell Beakers as well as the fact that Shulaveri-Shomu is a Neolithic culture. Bell Beakers never reached Albania my guy, only material cultures similar to it have been found. The L23 clades in Armenia are unrelated to that found in the Balkans and the clade in the Balkans relates to the movement of Albanians so it more recent. Albanians are different from Armenians but oh well. The link you posted isn't from an actual peer-reviewed paper, it's made by some guy who is fixated with Shulaveri-Shomu and is the only guy that says that Bell Beaker comes from this culture

Lmaoo, i didnt write this the quote i gave you is from a certified study Olalde et al. and Mathieson et al. (Nature 2018), and shows western yamnayas with ydnas including r1b-l23 z2103 imigrate into the east bell beaker group.
Also, what you say is incorect, R1B was found in Kura-Araxes culture, kura axes 635 (Armenia_EBA) is R1b1-M415(xM269).
And bell beakers were found in Albania, both in the The Races of Europe and more detailed in the Mountain of Giants Coon posts studies of the cranium found with many being of Bell beaker flat headed brachy type UNLIKE other illyrian samples from the more western part who were all or almost all long headed corded.

This is the first occurrence of crania of this type in the Dinaric Alpine region in any considerable numbers. We have already seen, however, that this same type had entered these mountains by the beginning of the Bronze Age, in connection with the eastward movement of the Bell Beaker peoples. The round-heads at Glasinac and in Carniola may have been the descendants of these Bell Beaker refugees


As the Illyrians spread southwestward along the Dinaric Alps into Montenegro and Albania, they apparently blended with an indigenous brachycephalic mountain population which may have been more numerous than the invaders; for, with some additions and modifications, it persists as a predominant element today. In a small series of early Christian crania from a site near Split on the Dalmatian coast, 23 both Dinaric brachycephals and a few long-headed crania are represented. In Albania, a country which is almost completely unknown archaeologically, a single skull which belonged to a Romanized Illyrian group has been found in an Iron Age site in the tribe of Puka. 24 This skull is mesocephalic, and seems, insofar as we may judge, intermediate between the Illyrians of the old type and Dinarics.

^proves what i have said, Glasinac is a mix of illyrians of hallstatt which are dominant elsewere except Albania and bell beakers from much earlier Bronze Age.


Fortounately, the materials excavated at GIasinac, the type site of the Illyrian Hallstatt
culture, include skeletons as well as artifacts.
The date of this cemetery is between 1000
and 500 b.c The collection of 38 crania shows
clearly that the lllyrians were not a homo-
geneous people in the racial sense. The majority
of the skulls are long headed, and represent at
least 2 contemporary varieties of Nordic. This
is not surprising since most of the Iron Age peoples of Europe were Nordic. However, 13
crania, or one-third of the total series, were
brachycephalic These skulls have flat occi-
puts, straight sidewalls, broad foreheads, and
in the one example in which the nasal bones
have been preserved, a long and aquiline nose.
They are the skulls of Dinarics, and resemble
both the Bronze Age Dinaric skulls from
Cyprus, and the Bell Beaker Dinaric crania
from early Bronze Age sites in Germany.