Is Kosovo Serbia? We ask a historian

[Ushtari]

Noel Malcolm
The Guardian, Tuesday 26 February 2008
Article history

"Kosovo is Serbia", "Ask any historian" read the unlikely placards, waved by angry Serb demonstrators in Brussels on Sunday. This is rather flattering for historians: we don't often get asked to adjudicate. It does not, however, follow that any historian would agree, not least because historians do not use this sort of eternal present tense.

History, for the Serbs, started in the early 7th century, when they settled in the Balkans. Their power base was outside Kosovo, which they fully conquered in the early 13th, so the claim that Kosovo was the "cradle" of the Serbs is untrue.

What is true is that they ruled Kosovo for about 250 years, until the final Ottoman takeover in the mid-15th century. Churches and monasteries remain from that period, but there is no more continuity between the medieval Serbian state and today's Serbia than there is between the Byzantine Empire and Greece.

Kosovo remained Ottoman territory until it was conquered by Serbian forces in 1912. Serbs would say "liberated"; but even their own estimates put the Orthodox Serb population at less than 25%. The majority population was Albanian, and did not welcome Serb rule, so "conquered" seems the right word.

But legally, Kosovo was not incorporated into the Serbian kingdom in 1912; it remained occupied territory until some time after 1918. Then, finally, it was incorporated, not into a Serbian state, but into a Yugoslav one. And with one big interruption (the second world war) it remained part of some sort of Yugoslav state until June 2006.

Until the destruction of the old federal Yugoslavia by Milosevic, Kosovo had a dual status. It was called a part of Serbia; but it was also called a unit of the federation. In all practical ways, the latter sense prevailed: Kosovo had its own parliament and government, and was directly represented at the federal level, alongside Serbia. It was, in fact, one of the eight units of the federal system.

Almost all the other units have now become independent states. Historically, the independence of Kosovo just completes that process. Therefore, Kosovo has become an ex-Yugoslav state, as any historian could tell you.

· Noel Malcolm is a senior research fellow at All Souls College, Oxford. He is the author of Kosovo: A Short History
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/feb/26/kosovo.serbia

[Himera]

Yes a "chicha from ulica"was asked and his opinion is very obviously...

A historician ..by himself.....shhh! .. listen to him!

Kosova is albanian and KOSOVO is serbian...:thumb001::p

[Ushtari]

Yes a "chicha from ulica"was asked and his opinion is very obviously...

A historician ..by himself.....shhh! .. listen to him!

Kosova is albanian and KOSOVO is serbian...:thumb001::p
Indeed, what would he as a historian know about the issue:rolleyes:

Try to disprove him instead of feeding us your usual bullshit.

[Himera]

Indeed, what would he as a historian know about the issue:rolleyes:

Try to disprove him instead of feeding us your usual bullshit.

"Us" ...who ?:D

[Heretik]

Why can't you all just get along? :(

[Peerkons]

Kosovo is America.

[Wyn]

It's worth remembering that The Guardian is a strongly leftist newspaper and one that supported NATO 'intervention' back in '99.

[Ushtari]

It's worth remembering that The Guardian is a strongly leftist newspaper
And i bet you dont have one single source to contradict any of Malcolm's statements...


and one that supported NATO 'intervention' back in '99.
Not so strange considering the following
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showpost.php?p=305576&postcount=485

[Heretik]

Well, judging by that article, Kosovo is neither Serbian nor Albanian but Turkish. :p :D

[Ushtari]

Well, judging by that article, Kosovo is neither Serbian nor Albanian but Turkish. :p :D
Hehehe:P

According to Serbian logic Kosovo belongs to Turks, since they have been ruling the area longest. But fact still remain, Albanians are the original inhabitants of Kosovo.

[Heretik]

Ahhhhhhh... Ushtari... :dunno:

[Guapo]

For a scholar who is neither versed in Slav studies nor a balkanologist, and who, judging by his scholarly credentials, until 4-5 years ago never had anything whatsoever to do with the history of the Balkans, it strikes one as unconvincing, even in sheer physical terms, that he could have managed to digest and synthesize, within 2-3 years, such a huge quantity of archives and archival holdings in so many languages, consulted such a massive literature in 11 European languages.

It is stunning that Malcolm, in spite of his alleged insight into such extensive archival materials and literature, has not advanced a step further than the many times repeated great-Albanian theses launched by national ideologists from Tirana and Pristina.

[Ushtari]

For a scholar who is neither versed in Slav studies nor a balkanologist, and who, judging by his scholarly credentials, until 4-5 years ago never had anything whatsoever to do with the history of the Balkans, it strikes one as unconvincing, even in sheer physical terms, that he could have managed to digest and synthesize, within 2-3 years, such a huge quantity of archives and archival holdings in so many languages, consulted such a massive literature in 11 European languages.

It is stunning that Malcolm, in spite of his alleged insight into such extensive archival materials and literature, has not advanced a step further than the many times repeated great-Albanian theses launched by national ideologists from Tirana and Pristina.
Have you even read his book? why dont you try to disprove his statements??

[Guapo]

Have you even read his book? why dont you try to disprove his statements??

What for when he is disproved as being a real historian and baklavanologist. Why don't you disprove what I posted about him?

[Ushtari]

What for when he is disproved as being a real historian and baklavanologist. Why don't you disprove what I posted about him?
You do know that its not only Malcolm who have come up with these conclusions?

http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/5407/books2.jpg
http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/5469/books3.jpg

Source:
http://books.google.se/books?id=XFtbEd1ojBsC&printsec=frontcover&dq=indo+european+language&hl=en&ei=tMo9TdmtLI7JswaNwuzzBg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CDUQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=albanian&f=false

[Guapo]

Pwned as usual now fan ta dig din fula fan blatte.

[Wyn]

And i bet you dont have one single source to contradict any of Malcolm's statements...


Not so strange considering the following
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showpost.php?p=305576&postcount=485

I don't believe there's any aspect of my post that gives the impression that I was offering a refutation (I wasn't). Sources are extremely important - if you didn't already know that then you've been doing history wrong all your life - and non-British members might not be aware of The Guardian's leftist/anti-Nationalist history or its past support for NATO military intervention. Thus, my post served a distinct purpose - as was made clear:


It's worth remembering that The Guardian is a strongly leftist newspaper and one that supported NATO 'intervention' back in '99.

So you see, I can't address any specific claims found in his book - but that The Guardian is the publication that is being used as a source in this thread is worth remembering.

[Ushtari]

Pwned as usual now fan ta dig din fula fan blatte.
Indeed, it cant be funny to be pwned by me all the time, so why do you continue withe the same lies?

Im really starting to believe your cultural father, Dobrica Cosic

"A lie, trait of our patriotism" “We lie to deceive ourselves, to console others, we lie for mercy, we lie to fight fear, to encourage ourselves, to hide our and somebody else's misery. We lie for love and honesty. We lie because of freedom. Lying is a trait of our patriotism and the proof of our innate intelligence. We lie creatively, imaginatively and inventively."

-Dobrica Cosic

[Ushtari]

I don't believe there's any aspect of my post that gives the impression that I was offering a refutation (I wasn't). Sources are extremely important - if you didn't already know that then you've been doing history wrong all your life - and non-British members might not be aware of The Guardian's leftist/anti-Nationalist history or its past support for NATO military intervention. Thus, my post served a distinct purpose - as was made clear:



So you see, I can't address any specific claims found in his book - but that The Guardian is the publication that is being used as a source in this thread is worth remembering.
I understand your point, but it wasn't the words of "the guardian" but from Noel Malcolm, who is a scholar familiar with the subject.

[Guapo]

Indeed, it cant be funny to be pwned by me all the time, so why do you continue withe the same lies?

Im really starting to believe your cultural father, Dobrica Cosic

"A lie, trait of our patriotism" “We lie to deceive ourselves, to console others, we lie for mercy, we lie to fight fear, to encourage ourselves, to hide our and somebody else's misery. We lie for love and honesty. We lie because of freedom. Lying is a trait of our patriotism and the proof of our innate intelligence. We lie creatively, imaginatively and inventively."

-Dobrica Cosic

Again, using a quote from his fictional communist novel from the 60's about nationalism in general, to prove what? Pwned again din fula fan blatte.

[Ushtari]

Again, using a quote from his fictional communist novel from the 60's about nationalism in general, to prove what? Pwned again din fula fan blatte.
You must be able to draw parallels. Dobrica Cosic is your cultural father, ie a Serb. Ironically his words matches the way you Serbs are PERFECTLY!

[Heretik]

http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss220/wensounds/kosovo.gif

[Guapo]

Ironically his words matches the way Albanians are PERFECTLY!

[Ushtari]

När argumenten tryter...

[Guapo]

http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss220/wensounds/kosovo.gif

http://www.index.hr/images2/hahahah43545vvjpg.jpg

[Himera]

http://www.index.hr/images2/hahahah43545vvjpg.jpg

Tako ti i treba ... e moj Heretik, umesto lica ,od tebe -guzica !:p:p

[Heretik]

http://www.index.hr/images2/hahahah43545vvjpg.jpg

You and your boyfriend are cute but I don't get it... Why are you wearing Croatian jerseys? :dunno:

[Kosovo je Sjrbia]

Kosovo je Sjrbia

Косово је Сјбира

[Ushtari]

Kosovo je Sjrbia

Косово је Сјбира
Do you have any source for this?

[Guapo]

Do you have any source for this?

Google translator

[Kosovo je Sjrbia]

http://www.index.hr/images2/hahahah43545vvjpg.jpg

those are croatians, in fact i see the flag on the t-shirts, in Serbia are not allowed those things.
But as we know Croatia in the past was a colony of Italy and Venice, countries where libertinism has become a way of life.

[Kosovo je Sjrbia]

Do you have any source for this?

In Kosovo there are more than 1000 ortodox churches, so it's a Serbian land. The Albanians invaded that country only recently. In fact all the mosques are modern.

[Guapo]

Treu, true.

[Ushtari]

In Kosovo there are more than 1000 ortodox churches, so it's a Serbian land. The Albanians invaded that country only recently. In fact all the mosques are modern.
Do you have any source for this?

[mymy]

those are croatians, in fact i see the flag on the t-shirts, in Serbia are not allowed those things.
But as we know Croatia in the past was a colony of Italy and Venice, countries where libertinism has become a way of life.

stupid, we are allowed to do anything we want, way of life decide person, not history. we were turkish colony , but do we have turkish way of life?? me not.


In Kosovo there are more than 1000 ortodox churches, so it's a Serbian land. The Albanians invaded that country only recently. In fact all the mosques are modern.

with this i agree. those ortodox churches and monasteries are much more important than theritory because they are important part of our cultural identity

[Guapo]

stupid, we are allowed to do anything we want, way of life decide person, not history. we were turkish colony , but do we have turkish way of life?? me not.



with this i agree. those ortodox churches and monasteries are much more important than theritory because they are important part of our cultural identity

Way of life decides the wife.

[mymy]

Way of life decides the wife.

for those who has or will have wife ;) :D

[Ushtari]

with this i agree. those ortodox churches and monasteries are much more important than theritory because they are important part of our cultural identity
Sure they are, but you seem to forget that you Serbs destroyed over 200 albanian religious buildings and nearly 500 kullas(traditional houses)


The status of selected Muslim sacred sites. András Riedlmayer and Andrew Herscher, also of Harvard University, carried out a post-war field survey of damage to cultural and religious heritage in Kosovo in October 1999. They found no sign that NATO airstrikes had caused damage to Muslim or Orthodox sacred sites. However, more than 200 mosques had been destroyed or damaged in "ethnic cleansing" operations by Serbian forces in 1998-99. Among the worst hit was the northwestern Kosovo municipality of Pec, where all 36 mosques had been burned out, blown up, or vandalized, including the 14th-century Mosque of Sultan Mehmed the Conqueror (Bajrakli Xhamia) and the 18th-century Red Mosque (Xhamia e Kuqe).
Source (http://www.sacred-sites.org/preservation/kosovo.html)


Of the more than 600 mosques in Kosovo, greater than 200 were damaged or destroyed during the war. Andras Riedlmayer, from the Cambridge-based Kosovo Cultural Heritage Project, documented how Serb paramilitaries burnt, bombed, and vandalized mosques—sometimes tearing leaves from ancient Koran manuscripts and writing crude anti-Albanian graffiti on the walls.
Source (http://balkandevelopment.org/kosovo/08.htm)


Kullas are unique Albanian-style stone mansions built between the 18th and early 20th centuries. Of the 500 Kullas existing prior to the war, 450 suffered damage by Serb forces intent on eradicating all traces of Albanian culture in Kosovo. Fortunately they were not as successful as they were in parts of Bosnia where, not only did they destroy mosques in Banja Luka and Foca, they carted away the stones and made a parking lot.
Source (http://balkandevelopment.org/kosovo/08.htm)

[Kosovo je Sjrbia]

Do you have any source for this?

wikipedia

[Guapo]

Sure they are, but you seem to forget that you Serbs destroyed over 200 albanian religious buildings and nearly 500 kullas(traditional houses)


Source (http://www.sacred-sites.org/preservation/kosovo.html)


Source (http://balkandevelopment.org/kosovo/08.htm)


Source (http://balkandevelopment.org/kosovo/08.htm)

Mangga malmingan pa?

[Ushtari]

wikipedia
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_ZiIY089n7Ss/SEsW0z-gWYI/AAAAAAAAADM/rFzmhW3AkVU/s320/albanian+flag+on+the+moon+copy.jpg

[poiuytrewq0987]

sure they are, but you seem to forget that you serbs destroyed over 200 albanian religious buildings and nearly 500 kullas(traditional houses)


source (http://www.sacred-sites.org/preservation/kosovo.html)


source (http://balkandevelopment.org/kosovo/08.htm)


source (http://balkandevelopment.org/kosovo/08.htm)

WAAAAAAAa MOMMY!!! THEY DESTROYED ME MOSQUES!!!! MEAN SERBS HATERS OF ISLAM!

[mymy]

Sure they are, but you seem to forget that you Serbs destroyed over 200 albanian religious buildings and nearly 500 kullas(traditional houses)

And Albanians also destroyed Serbian churches and monasteries, no?

fkgHkxIfgBc

[Ushtari]

And Albanians also destroyed Serbian churches and monasteries, no?

Yes but you destroyed our religious buildings in the first place. If you attack us, we will attack you, simple as that.

[mymy]

Yes but you destroyed our religious buildings in the first place. If you attack us, we will attack you, simple as that.

I never attached you... or anyone from my family :coffee:

[Guapo]

abV3B4KxRBw
0eoPKqL4068

[Guapo]

next Kosovo war the Russians, Poles and Czechoslovaks will fight alongside Serbs, except for Corats and Bosniaks.

[Ushtari]

next Kosovo war the Russians, Poles and Czechoslovaks will fight alongside Serbs, except for Corats and Bosniaks.
An attack on kosovo means an attack on Albania, and an attack on Albania means an attack on NATO:cool:

[Guapo]

An attack on kosovo means an attack on Albania, and an attack on Albania means an attack on NATO:cool:

awesome :popcorn:

[Heretik]

abV3B4KxRBw
0eoPKqL4068

Aukurac! :rofl: :rofl:

[Svanhild]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_ZiIY089n7Ss/SEsW0z-gWYI/AAAAAAAAADM/rFzmhW3AkVU/s320/albanian+flag+on+the+moon+copy.jpg

http://www.armageddononline.org/images/black-hole.jpg

Future Albania :wink

[Ushtari]

Future Albania
Future Germany:
http://www.rfi.fr/actuen/images/115/PAKISTANJAMAATJULY09432.jpg

[Svanhild]

Future Germany
You're using Muslims as an attack when your own damn country is made of Muslims? :cool:

[Treffie]

Grrrreat. Another Balkan fuckfest.

[Ushtari]

You're using Muslims as an attack when your own damn country is made of Muslims? :cool:
As always with you Christian fanatics/terrorists, you see Muslims as an homogeneous group. Germany is invaded by non-Europeans, whereas Albania is made of Europeans and will stay that way in the future, unlike your country.

[poiuytrewq0987]

Grrrreat. Another Balkan fuckfest.

We love em.

http://www.lessing-photo.com/p3/400707/40070723.jpg

[poiuytrewq0987]

As always with you Christian fanatics/terrorists, you see Muslims as an homogeneous group. Germany is invaded by non-Europeans, whereas Albania is made of Europeans and will stay that way in the future, unlike your country.

Svanhild is a Christian terrorist? :laugh: That makes you what? A defender of Islam? :D

[Adrian]

Svanhild is a Christian terrorist? :laugh: That makes you what? A defender of Islam? :D

I'm albanian and i don't give a damn about any religion.

Talking about religion.

Orthodox serbs killed more than 320.000 people in '90s.
4 wars in one dacade!
First Sllovenia than Croatia, Bosnia and Kosova!

Who is next?

Do you consider yourself civilized people?

[poiuytrewq0987]

I'm albanian and i don't give a damn about any religion.

Talking about religion.

Orthodox serbs killed more than 320.000 people in '90s.
4 wars in one dacade!
First Sllovenia than Croatia, Bosnia and Kosova!

Who is next?

Do you consider yourself civilized people?

Germans killed 1 million Serbs in WW1, Croats killed 750,000 Serbs in WW2 in which Shiptars took part. :coffee:

[Ushtari]

Germans killed 1 million Serbs in WW1, Croats killed 750,000 Serbs in WW2 in which Shiptars took part. :coffee:
Serbs are the only ones to commit genocide in Europe since WW2, all in the name of Christianity.

[poiuytrewq0987]

Serbs are the only ones to commit genocide in Europe since WW2, all in the name of Christianity.

And what of the Serbs of Kosovo? You are committing genocide on us by just being there.

[Ushtari]

And what of the Serbs of Kosovo? You are committing genocide on us by just being there.
What about them? Kosovo was colonized with Serbs in the beginning of 1900's.

[Belenus]

Haven't you people started enough world wars with your shit already? Give it a rest.

If this world was still normal, then this whole affair would just be settled with a nice, old fashioned, localised war. But because of NATO and internationalist meddling, that unfortunately can't happen. Instead we get to hear endless moaning and groaning.

[Ushtari]

Haven't you people started enough world wars with your shit already? Give it a rest.

If this world was still normal, then this whole affair would just be settled with a nice, old fashioned, localised war. But because of NATO and internationalist meddling, that unfortunately can't happen. Instead we get to hear endless moaning and groaning.
Ehh?

This is what the Serbian monkeys managed to do before NATO intervened:
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showpost.php?p=305576&postcount=485

[Belenus]

All of the atrocities committed in any war are terrible. But when two nations have an irreconcilable dispute, war is the natural consequence. War determines who is the stronger party. The history of mankind is the history of power struggles to determine the ruling authorities of various regions. Albania may be outnumbered but they'd still have a chance at winning if they wanted it bad enough. They could always resort to guerrilla warfare. At the end of the day, war determines who has more willpower, grit, and determination.

But so long as we live in an internationalist civilisation, such a natural recourse is no longer possible.

[Ushtari]

All of the atrocities committed in any war are terrible. But when two nations have an irreconcilable dispute, war is the natural consequence. War determines who is the stronger party. The history of mankind is the history of power struggles to determine the ruling authorities of various regions. Albania may be outnumbered but they'd still have a chance at winning if they wanted it bad enough. They could always resort to guerrilla warfare. At the end of the day, war determines who has more willpower, grit, and determination.

But so long as we live in an internationalist civilisation, such a natural recourse is no longer possible.
Trust me, its not the first time the Serbian terrorist regime have terrorized the Albanian population. In the 30's and 40's they brought a colonization policy, ie they brought Serbian and Montenegrin farmers who settled in Kosovo, but Albanians where still in majority. Then they deported hundreds of thousands of Albanians to Turkey but the Albanians were still in the majority. Why? Well, because it is documented that the Serbs in Kosovo many times in history has moved out, mostly to Serbia and other parts of Vojvodina. And Kosovo is supposed to be their "cultural cradle". Yes, of course ...

If you want an in depth explanation about the Kosovo conflict, you can read here:
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22801

[Belenus]

I don't know too much about the Balkans or the Kosovo conflict, I'll admit. But I do know about a comparable episode in European history.

Most of my ancestors come from Ireland, a country that has been dominated by the British for hundreds of years. They were persecuted heavily, forbidden to speak their language, forced out of their homes, subjected to harsh laws of occupation, etc. There were massacres one after another. Ireland was a small country and its occupier was one of the mightiest in the world - the mightiest of all for a long time.

But the Irish never stopped fighting. They kept at it, they cherished their national identity and kept up a fierce resistance for hundreds of years. Eventually they won their independence, because the Irish will outlasted the British. War is hell, but it is also a function of nature which determines the affairs of men. Albanians shouldn't hide behind the guns of NATO. They should fight fiercely for their sense of nationhood. The same applies to Serbia. Horrible atrocities will be inflicted on both sides, certainly. But at least the matter will be resolved in the same fashion that all disputes have been resolved for millennia. Whoever wants it most will win in the end, no matter how long it takes.

[Ushtari]

I don't know too much about the Balkans or the Kosovo conflict, I'll admit. But I do know about a comparable episode in European history.

Most of my ancestors come from Ireland, a country that has been dominated by the British for hundreds of years. They were persecuted heavily, forbidden to speak their language, forced out of their homes, subjected to harsh laws of occupation, etc. There were massacres one after another. Ireland was a small country and its occupier was one of the mightiest in the world - the mightiest of all for a long time.

But the Irish never stopped fighting. They kept at it, they cherished their national identity and kept up a fierce resistance for hundreds of years. Eventually they won their independence, because the Irish will outlasted the British. War is hell, but it is also a function of nature which determines the affairs of men. Albanians shouldn't hide behind the guns of NATO. They should fight fiercely for their sense of nationhood. The same applies to Serbia. Horrible atrocities will be inflicted on both sides, certainly. But at least the matter will be resolved in the same fashion that all disputes have been resolved for millennia. Whoever wants it most will win in the end, no matter how long it takes.
Well you just described the kosovo conflict, but as you said your self, they where the "greatest power of the time". Albanians did fight back, have you heard of UCK/KLA? But Serbs where to strong and the West saw that the only way to stop these monkeys was to let NATO intervene.

[Mordid]

Kosovo is Poland and Wales, of course.

[mymy]

Well you just described the kosovo conflict, but as you said your self, they where the "greatest power of the time". Albanians did fight back, have you heard of UCK/KLA? But Serbs where to strong and the West saw that the only way to stop these monkeys was to let NATO intervene.

Please, pay attention on words you choose. It is really not nice and polite to call one nation "monkeys". I certainly don't like when someone call me like that... I look a bit better than monkey, no? :coffee:

As for myself, the only things what Serbia lost on Kosovo are churches and monasteries what are part or our national identity, territory is not really important. If all those churches were in Serbia now, i wouldnt really care that some Albanians took peace of land, cause land is nothing, cultural heritage is important.:rolleyes2:

[Adrian]

..............................

[Ushtari]

Please, pay attention on words you choose. It is really not nice and polite to call one nation "monkeys". I certainly don't like when someone call me like that... I look a bit better than monkey, no? :coffee:
Im sorry but monkey is the only word that comes to my mind when i think of acts like this.


As for myself, the only things what Serbia lost on Kosovo are churches and monasteries what are part or our national identity, territory is not really important. If all those churches were in Serbia now, i wouldnt really care that some Albanians took peace of land, cause land is nothing, cultural heritage is important.:rolleyes2:
Yeah, you Serbs are Orthodox Christian fanatics, and thats why you waged war on all your neighbors.

[mymy]

Im sorry but monkey is the only word that comes to my mind when i think of acts like this.

That speaks about your culture than. I would never let myself to call other nation with bad names.


Yeah, you Serbs are Christian fanatics, and thats why you waged war on all your neighbors.

We are not fanatics, i talked about cultural heritage, but in this case thats are curches! And nobody from my family ever was in any war, so I really dont have any reason to feel guilty for something. I dont have any feelings towards Albanians, bad or good, i rather prefer to make opinions about individuals.
Anyway, i dont have anyone on Kosovo, or Bosnia, Croatia, Montenegro and so on... I think Serbs with family roots from those places, probably feel a bit different than me.

[Adrian]

The old churches, like manastir in Gracanica and Manastir in Deqan were albanian churches. We accepted christianity in III century. In that time serbs didn't have any idea where Ballakan is.
Your first invasion in Balkan was in VIII century.

New churches are politikal churches. You never stop building a politikal churches everywhere around Kosovo.


There are more than 50.000 serbians in Kosovo in this moment. Thay have all the rights guaranteed and are part of independent Kosova.
Thay use churches everyday and nobody don't disturb them.

[mymy]

The old churches, like manastir in Gracanica and Manastir in Deqan were albanian churches. We accepted christianity in III century. In that time serbs didn't have any idea where Ballakan is.
Your first invasion in Balkan was in VIII century.

New churches are politikal churches. You never stop building a politikal churches everywhere around Kosovo.


There are more than 50.000 serbians in Kosovo in this moment. Thay have all the rights guaranteed and are part of independent Kosova.
Thay use churches everyday and nobody don't disturb them.

Strange opinion, I hear it first time. Well, these days we cant know for sure what really happened in history. To believe in something 100% is a bit strange, no?

[Svarog]

You're using Muslims as an attack when your own damn country is made of Muslims? :cool:

Hey Svan, I missed you :embarrassed

[Svanhild]

Svanhild is a Christian terrorist? :laugh:
I'm as much Christian as you're a despiser of women. :wink

Hey Svarog. Fresh start?

[Mordid]

Kosovo is Serbian

Fixed it for you. :thumb001::D

[Heretik]

Schlesien ist Deutsch! :laugh:

[Mordid]

Schlesien ist Deutsch! :laugh:

:blink:

[Svanhild]

Damnit, I just learnt that Ushtari isn't Tonsor. I was surprised at his increase of compiling rather lowbrow posts for weeks by now. Beg your pardon!

[Ushtari]

Damnit, I just learnt that Ushtari isn't Tonsor. I was surprised at his increase of compiling rather lowbrow posts for weeks by now. Beg your pardon!
I love you to

HsWih0AT2tE

[Himera]

As always with you Christian fanatics/terrorists, you see Muslims as an homogeneous group. Germany is invaded by non-Europeans, whereas Albania is made of Europeans and will stay that way in the future, unlike your country.

Which reminds me:
Hey ,non europinian louse, stop sucking from Sweden!

[Svarog]

Hey Svarog. Fresh start?

Got no problem with you, football hatred I don't take too seriously, just yesterday I had a insane football argue with closest friend; in the evening we were drinking coffee like nothing happened :D

Anyway, I don't have much time to post anymore, too much work in rl :(

[Dario Argento]

Which reminds me:
Hey ,non europinian louse, stop sucking from Sweden!

Albanians are as Europeans as you, if not more. They preserved a very very old Indo-European language while you people are just a bunch of owned Illyrians that got fucked by Romans, Greeks, Slavs, Turks, etc etc etc.

Seriously, do you really think you're Slav? I bet if I put you between a Russian and an Albanian, you'd resemble the Albanian waaaaay more.

Serbians are just a bunch of runaway Albanians that got owned by a small number of slavs.

You're Albanian too, even if you don't like it, so don't be hatin'

[Svarog]

How are you not embarassed of your stupidity? Christianity in 3rd century, freaking Roman empire still existed, First Christian Ruler was Constantine in 380, religion was not fully adopt it until 5th century, seriously, is this what you guys learn in school (i take it you have those by now, right?)


The old churches, like manastir in Gracanica and Manastir in Deqan were albanian churches. We accepted christianity in III century. In that time serbs didn't have any idea where Ballakan is.
Your first invasion in Balkan was in VIII century.

Gračanica is a Serbian Orthodox monastery located in Kosovo. It was founded by the Serbian king Stefan Milutin in 1321, so, about 1000 years later when you claim :confused: to miss few years, but freaking 1000 years


There are more than 50.000 serbians in Kosovo in this moment. Thay have all the rights guaranteed and are part of independent Kosova.
Thay use churches everyday and nobody don't disturb them.

If it is such a nice place, why all the shiptars still begs for Serbian passports so you could troll in Western Europe, nothing disgust me more than Albanians with Serbian passports all over the place pretending to be Serbs just so they can immigrate away from your shitholes.


As always with you Christian fanatics/terrorists, you see Muslims as an homogeneous group. Germany is invaded by non-Europeans, whereas

At least those non-europeans have legal jobs and contribute unlike you swarm of rats.


Albania is made of Europeans and will stay that way in the future, unlike your country.

Hey Abdulah Hodxa, which fairytale is this from?

[Svarog]

Albanians are as Europeans as you, if not more. They preserved a very very old Indo-European language while you people are just a bunch of owned Illyrians that got fucked by Romans, Greeks, Slavs, Turks, etc etc etc.

Seriously, do you really think you're Slav? I bet if I put you between a Russian and an Albanian, you'd resemble the Albanian waaaaay more.

Serbians are just a bunch of runaway Albanians that got owned by a small number of slavs.

You're Albanian too, even if you don't like it, so don't be hatin'

Hey Attila, hit the trail back to Asia from where you settled here ;)

[Ushtari]

At least those non-europeans have legal jobs and contribute unlike you swarm of rats.
Hahaha did this really came from a Serb? should i really have to remind you of Anna lindh, helicopter robbery? etc? not to mention all the SERBIAN immigrants coming to sweden recently.

But one should not be that surprised, considering you guys are known for stealing and occupying others lands and then behave like animals.


Hey Abdulah Hodxa, which fairytale is this from?
Its called reality.


Albanian: 95%
Greek: 3%
other: 2% Aromanians (Vlachs), Roma (Gypsy), Serbs, Macedonians,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Albania

[Ushtari]

Hey Attila, hit the trail back to Asia from where you settled here ;)
Same thing goes for you, sarmatian.

[Wyn]

WALES IS ENGLAND.

[The Lawspeaker]

Schlesien ist Deutsch! :laugh:
Staats-Opper Gelre, Gulik, Kleef, het Land van 's-Hertogenrade, Vlaanderen, Zuid-Brabant, West-Limburg, Wallonië, Artesië en Benthem zijn Nederlands !

[Wyn]

WALES IS ENGLAND.

Excuse me; WALE IS ENGLAND.

[Mordid]

Staats-Opper Gelre, Gulik, Kleef, Vlaanderen, Zuid-Brabant, West-Limburg, Wallonië, Artesië en Benthem zijn Nederlands !


Dont naar hem luisteren. Hij is een verdomde klootzak. :D

[The Lawspeaker]

Dont naar hem luisteren. Hij is een verdomde klootzak. :D
Valt wel mee.. en hij heeft gelijk. Maar de Duitsers moeten niet zo mekkeren want ze hebben ook hele stukken van ons achterovergedrukt...dus: inleveren die zooi. :D

[poiuytrewq0987]

Excuse me; WALE IS ENGLAND.

http://img864.imageshack.us/img864/2203/greaterengland.png

[Svanhild]

Staats-Opper Gelre, Gulik, Kleef, het Land van 's-Hertogenrade, Vlaanderen, Zuid-Brabant, West-Limburg, Wallonië, Artesië en Benthem zijn Nederlands !

And Nederlanders are Duits in disguise. :wink "Ben ik van duitsen bloed".

[Groenewolf]

And Nederlanders are Duits in disguise. :wink "Ben ik van duitsen bloed".

That is form the Wilhelmus, a song about William the Silent, who was a member of German noble family.:wink

[Mordid]

Eh, ein Zimmer, um Gottes willen.
Eh, krijgen een kamer, voor god sake. :wink:D

[The Lawspeaker]

Eh, ein Zimmer, um Gottes willen.
Eh, krijgen een kamer, voor god sake. :wink:D
Hmm ??

[Svanhild]

That is form the Wilhelmus, a song about William the Silent, who was a member of German noble family.:wink
Yeah I know, it's in your anthem. History has been a bitch, some minor different paths over the centuries and the Nederduits would've never split off from the Duits motherland. That Nederduits and Duits are different people in different countries is just a product of the mind, repetitive emphasised and prevalent on both sides. Sometimes it saddens me but hey, there's no solution now and there're more important problems at hand. Like the flood of aliens.

[Loki]

Yeah I know, it's in your anthem. History has been a bitch, some minor different paths over the centuries and the Nederduits would've never split off from the Duits motherland. That Nederduits and Duits are different people in different countries is just a product of the mind, prevalent on both sides. Sometimes it saddens me but hey, there's no solution now and there're more important problems at hand. Like the flood of aliens.

Even Paul Kruger from South Africa referred to Germany as "our fatherland". :)

[Svanhild]

Even Paul Kruger from South Africa referred to Germany as "our fatherland". :)
A wise man then. :)

[Loki]

A wise man then. :)

He was, yes. His successor, though (the son of the man in my profile pic), chose to gain friendship with the English instead after fighting them. And Germany (and Netherlands) sort of got lost in history.

[Groenewolf]

Yeah I know, it's in your anthem. History has been a bitch, some minor different paths over the centuries and the Nederduits would've never split off from the Duits motherland.

Indeed, our representive countries fell under the influence of different dynasties. And from that our separate paths really started. But indeed, if some things went in a different way, we would probably be living in the same country right now.

[Pallantides]

Is Härjedalen, Norway?

Before 1645 it was.

[Mordid]

Is Härjedalen, Norway?

Dunno. You should ask people from Pole and Wale. :coffee:

[Peyrol]

Schlesien ist Deutsch! :laugh:

ok, i continue the trend


...Corsica italiana! :thumb001:

[poiuytrewq0987]

KOSOVO JE SRBIJA

http://johnbatchelorshow.com/schedules/image/kosovo_je_srbija%20%20.jpg

[poiuytrewq0987]

ok, i continue the trend


...Corsica italiana! :thumb001:

I would love to see a war between France and Italy. That would be so entertaining on all levels. An army of surrenderers vs another army of surrenderers. :D

[Pallantides]

Skåne is Danish!
http://www.stockholmfilmfestival.se/imagecache/filmpreview/fileadmin/images/film_images/2006/snapphanar.jpg

[Heretik]

ok, i continue the trend


...Corsica italiana! :thumb001:

As long as it's not something like this:

lR7l6HrGAcI

I actually raged for a couple of days over this song. :D


I would love to see a war between France and Italy. That would be so entertaining on all levels. An army of surrenderers vs another army of surrenderers. :D

French army >>> Italian army

[Peyrol]

"Istria, Fiume e Dalmazia
nè Slovenia, nè Croazia
terra rossa terra istriana,
terra mia, terra italiana"


Great song....unfortunately, you're right about the army.
But, italian army is 100% italian, no one from maghreb, djibuti, etc...like France.

[Heretik]

"Istria, Fiume e Dalmazia
nè Slovenia, nè Croazia
terra rossa terra istriana,
terra mia, terra italiana"


Great song....unfortunately, you're right about the army.

As I have commented on that video, come and get it. :laugh:

[Wyn]

AMERICA IS BRITISH.

[The Lawspeaker]

AMERICA IS BRITISH.
Come on Gospatric: you wouldn't want to have that back do you ? As if having to hold on to Scotland or Northern Ireland isn't bad enough.

[Peyrol]

As I have commented on that video, come and get it. :laugh:


"..Trst je nas..."?

http://www.drusie.com/forum/images/smiles/salta.gif

[Heretik]

Yup! :thumbs :D

[Wyn]

Come on Gospatric: you wouldn't want to have that back do you ? As if having to hold on to Scotland or Northern Ireland isn't bad enough.


Scotland and Northern Ireland are only 'held on to' as much as England is. All three are constituents of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. The only difference is that Scotland has its own parliament and Northern Ireland has a devolved assembly while England has neither of these things. The English need to break free of the UK! ;)

[The Lawspeaker]

http://img864.imageshack.us/img864/2203/greaterengland.png
I am against it. Because it shouldn't include parts of Flanders and Artesië unless there would be a United Kingdom of England and the Netherlands. :thumbs up

[poiuytrewq0987]

Scotland and Northern Ireland are only 'held on to' as much as England is. All three are constituents of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. The only difference is that Scotland has its own parliament and Northern Ireland has a devolved assembly while England has neither of these things. The English need to break free of the UK! ;)

Go go go! Gather Englishmen and tear down Westminster!

[The Lawspeaker]

Go go go! Gather Englishmen and tear down Westminster!
Nah. Because Westminster would be the seat of a United Anglo-Dutch Parliament while both the English and Dutch have their own parliaments.

[poiuytrewq0987]

Nah. Because Westminster would be the seat of a United Anglo-Dutch Parliament while both the English and Dutch have their own parliaments.

loool :D

[The Lawspeaker]

loool :D
And I will be the King. :D

[Svarog]

Anyone selling an Asian wife?

[poiuytrewq0987]

Anyone selling an Asian wife?

I'd go for a Russian mail bride.

[Svanhild]

I'd go for a Russian mail bride.

http://russianwomenblog.hotrussianbrides.com/image.axd?picture=2009%2F8%2Fmail-order-brides.jpg

[Ushtari]

No its not

[brunette]

Yes it is.

[Guapo]

Yes it is, Serbs are like the whites of South Africa. They brought civlization to Kosovo and the land was built by them and belongs to them, not the indigenous animalistic niggers aka albanians... right Loki?

[Virtuous]

Yes.

[Guapo]

Well, it was Serbian before it became independent but Kosovo was already Serbian as much as Croatia or Macedonia was.

If we calculate who controlled Kosovo and for how long, the least one was Serbs. Even the 1st Bulgar empire controlled Kosovo longer than them. Serbian kingdom founded in 14th century but after a brief period, like 40 years, Turks took control of them and made them vassals and took possession of Kosovo for about ~500 years. It only became Serbian again after 1912 and this continued `till 1999. So, we can say that Serbs controlled Kosovo for no more than 120 years throughout history.

Ohh, it was a Roman territory before all that but we don't even know who lived there during that period or a proper city like Kosovo even existed or not at that time. Maybe it was a desolate place, a woody land, who knows.

Stupid fucking turkish islamic piece of shit gypsy, Serbia was under Turkish rule for 320 years, not "for about 500." Fucking piece of shit.

[Il Principe]

The fake "country" of Kosovo is the necrotic sore on Europe's rotten underbelly, the Balkans. Nothing impressive ever came out of that sludgepit: it is Europe's greatest exporter of gypsies and organized crime, and greatest importer of stolen cars. Its inhabitants cannot be called European in any meaningful sense. The facts speak for themselves: half the Kosovars live outside their country, on North European social welfare.

A few years ago, I told a Kosovar Albanian immigrant that I was against Kosovo's independence from Serbia. The swarthy, ugly, hoodie-wearing goblin then snarled obscenities at me, and promised to bring over his "bro" and all his "coozins" to beat me up.

[Viljuska]

If we calculate who controlled Kosovo and for how long, the least one was Serbs.
It has never been albanian.


Even the 1st Bulgar empire controlled Kosovo longer than them. Serbian kingdom founded in 14th century but after a brief period, like 40 years, Turks took control of them and made them vassals and took possession of Kosovo for about ~500 years.
Kosovo was absorbed into Serbia in the late 12th century.
Also check Guapos post about Ottoman rule above.


It only became Serbian again after 1912 and this continued `till 1999. So, we can say that Serbs controlled Kosovo for no more than 120 years throughout history.
Nope.


Ohh, it was a Roman territory before all that but we don't even know who lived there during that period or a proper city like Kosovo even existed or not at that time. Maybe it was a desolate place, a woody land, who knows.Correct.


See also:
Response to Noel Malcolm's Book
KOSOVO. A SHORT HISTORY (http://www.kosovo.net/nmalk.html)


.

[Onur]

It has never been albanian.
True but `till 2008 and your PM recently recognized Albanian Kosovo.


Kosovo was absorbed into Serbia in the late 12th century.
Ehm, i am not sure but in 12-13th century, it should be part of 2nd Bulgar empire. They were controlling pretty much whole Balkans during that time, under Cuman Turkic Asen dynasty.


Serbia was under Turkish rule for 320 years, not "for about 500."
OK, lets say 250 year if that makes you happy but this is still twice as long as Serbian reign in Kosovo.

[MandM]

how can it be independet, is a protectori off nato nothing else,no member country of CIS, CSTO or SCO has recognized Kosovo as independent, UN hasent recognized them, onely 89 countrys of the 198 in the world have recocnized kosovo,they dont even control there on borders nato does that an idependent country does that one its own

[Rron]

It has never been albanian.
It was always Albanian , you occupied it 1912 with ottoman and west intervention .



Kosovo was absorbed into Serbia in the late 12th century.
Hahah Dude even serbia was under Bulgarian empire, according to your logic serbia is Bulgarian land.





Correct.
It was not correct, probably the dude and you dont even know who were Dardanians, so time for you guys to open the books.
Do you know in which century Nis fall in slavic hands ? , if not open your books again.

[Viljuska]

True but `till 2008 and your PM recently recognized Albanian Kosovo.


Ehm, i am not sure but in 12-13th century, it should be part of 2nd Bulgar empire. They were controlling pretty much whole Balkans during that time, under Cuman Turkic Asen dynasty.


OK, lets say 250 year if that makes you happy but this is still twice as long as Serbian reign in Kosovo.
1. No.
2. Count 1180 to 1455, then you have the period in middle of Ottoman rule as wel as period after 1912.
3. Nope.

[Viljuska]

It was always Albanian , you occupied it 1912 with ottoman and west intervention .



Hahah Dude even serbia was under Bulgarian empire, according to your logic serbia is Bulgarian land.





It was not correct, probably the dude and you dont even know who were Dardanians, so time for you guys to open the books.
Do you know in which century Nis fall in slavic hands ? , if not open your books again.lol :D

[Rron]

lol :D

The Conference of London, or Conference of the Ambassadors as it is often known in Albanian history, was a gathering of the six Great Powers (Great Britain, France, Germany, Austria-Hungary, Russia and Italy) to resolve certain problems in the Balkans which had arisen as a result of the collapse of the Ottoman Empire.
After much discussion, however, they reached a formal decision that Albania, though even deprived of more than a half of its ethnic territory would be a sovereign and independent.

Albanian territories before Treaty of London
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/38/Albanian_vilayet.jpg

and after Treaty of London
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4e/Balkan_Wars_Boundaries.jpg
.................................................. .................................................. ....

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2d/Balkans850.png
.................................................. ...........................................

During the 6th and 7th century CE, Slavic tribes made eight attempts to take Niš and in the final attack in 615 the Slavs took the city.

[Dacul]

Some people in Romania who talked with people from Kosovo tell that Kosovo is a mafia state.

[Vukodav]

Some people in Romania who talked with people from Kosovo tell that Kosovo is a mafia state.

That is a well known fact. But some people on this board seems to believe tha KosovO i Metohija is kind of Utopia.

[Radojica]

This forum is not welcomed for the Serbs anymore. I do not understand how you did not figure it out by now. Lena was told to leave the forum, which also applies to the others. Look what is happening about other things regarding Serbia. Kosovo regional? Leo as a mod? Ask Loki what's the reason behind all of this, if he have the guts, he will explain, I won't do it, but it goes much deeper than you would think. This is my the most friendliest advice to the Serbs around here. I was here for 3 years and I am out of this place. Peace to all of you. Radojica

[rashka]

The fake "country" of Kosovo is the necrotic sore on Europe's rotten underbelly, the Balkans. Nothing impressive ever came out of that sludgepit: it is Europe's greatest exporter of gypsies and organized crime, and greatest importer of stolen cars. Its inhabitants cannot be called European in any meaningful sense. The facts speak for themselves: half the Kosovars live outside their country, on North European social welfare.

A few years ago, I told a Kosovar Albanian immigrant that I was against Kosovo's independence from Serbia. The swarthy, ugly, hoodie-wearing goblin then snarled obscenities at me, and promised to bring over his "bro" and all his "coozins" to beat me up.

Exactamento.

[rashka]

This forum is not welcomed for the Serbs anymore. I do not understand how you did not figure it out by now. Lena was told to leave the forum, which also applies to the others. Look what is happening about other things regarding Serbia. Kosovo regional? Leo as a mod? Ask Loki what's the reason behind all of this, if he have the guts, he will explain, I won't do it. This is my the most friendliest advice to the Serbs around here. Peace to all of you. Radojica

Yeah what the hell is that all about, a separate region of Kosovo? That is truly sickening :puke:
Just no decent Serbs should ever post on that region. Because KOSOVO IS SERBIA. Let the Albos discuss amongst themselves human trafficking, prostitution, drug dealing etc there.

[Dacul]

Romania and Albania are 2 problem states in the region of Balkans,because of ultra-nationalism.

In Romania goverment/state institutions/universities do not want to make Y DNA tests so they keep with "romanians are latins".More people mixed to give romanian people,local people from here being most of them.Sure there are colonists from Roman Empire also but no one can know if they are from Latium,where latins where.
Population from Romania is close with serbs/croats on Y DNA and pretty close to albanians and greeks - today romanians.
This ultranationalism is not good,albanians I think say they are some kind of unique people.
Romania give a lot of resources to US because the paranoia of leaders so US will bring in Romania more troops,cause they think someone want to attack Romania.
You saw when Serbia was to enter UE Romania president said "romanian minorities rights" are not respected in Serbia and wanted to make problems for Serbia.
For people in Kosovo would be better if they would be under Serbia,they would get better education,better morality,better life conditions and so on.
I am really tired of all this ultranationalism and paranoia I see on a lot of romanians "Russia want to attack us" "russians are doing conspirations" and so on and so on.
With this mentality albanians and romanians will never become modern nations.
I am very sad when I compare how advanced is Serbia and they have a war with Romania.Romania is behind Bulgaria last country in UE as civilisation,morality,human rights,level of living and so on and so on.
Republic of Moldova is much better than Romania also,from this zone only Albania is worse/same level with Romania as civilisation and economic development (rather call it non-development) human rights etc etc.
The main cause is the ultranationalism which bring a lot of paranoia with it.
Albania and Romania now = 3rd world,some kind of more developed Somalia.
I know what I talk,I am in Romania.

[iNird]

I guess Serbs can't face reality? Kosovo declared independence 4 years.

http://assets0.ordienetworks.com/images/GifGuide/DealWithIt/30wphfo.jpg.gif

[Sorab]

Srbi ne klonite duhom .Ovakav tretman od Arnauta i drugih djavola nije novost ...

[JamesSteal]

Kosovo is Siberia.

http://www.wired.com/news/images/full/siberia_1169_f.jpg

[rashka]

Kosovo is Siberia.

http://www.wired.com/news/images/full/siberia_1169_f.jpg

I think I'll thank you for this. I always did think that the words Siberia and Serbia came from some common ancient language.

[rashka]

This forum is not welcomed for the Serbs anymore. I do not understand how you did not figure it out by now. Lena was told to leave the forum, which also applies to the others. Look what is happening about other things regarding Serbia. Kosovo regional? Leo as a mod? Ask Loki what's the reason behind all of this, if he have the guts, he will explain, I won't do it, but it goes much deeper than you would think. This is my the most friendliest advice to the Serbs around here. I was here for 3 years and I am out of this place. Peace to all of you. Radojica

Why was she told to leave the forum? What is the difference between that and banning? What was the reason behind all this? All I can think of is money. Does he want funding from the Albanian narco terrorists?

[iNird]

Does he want funding from the Albanian narco terrorists?

http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-laughing025.gif

[Guapo]

This forum is not welcomed for the Serbs anymore. I do not understand how you did not figure it out by now. Lena was told to leave the forum, which also applies to the others. Look what is happening about other things regarding Serbia. Kosovo regional? Leo as a mod? Ask Loki what's the reason behind all of this, if he have the guts, he will explain, I won't do it, but it goes much deeper than you would think. This is my the most friendliest advice to the Serbs around here. I was here for 3 years and I am out of this place. Peace to all of you. Radojica

I'm gone too.

[Rron]

I'm gone too.
Finally

[Guapo]

Finally

get a life, loser :)

[Rron]

get a life, loser :)
I thought you gone :)

[iNird]

I guess all the Serbs are leaving. I wonder if Albanians will be accused of ethnically cleansing them from the forum?

:laugh:

[Hurrem sultana]

get a life, loser :)

adios :cry

[Sarmatian]

I guess all the Serbs are leaving. I wonder if Albanians will be accused of ethnically cleansing them from the forum?

:laugh:

Thats why the rest of Europe don't like Albanians. When it comes to talking they have very big mouths and its just impossible to have a normal conversation with them.

And thats why I like Serbs. They don't talk as much but when it comes to a real fight they appeared to be very capable and reliable.

[Kanuni]

Thats why the rest of Europe don't like Albanians. When it comes to talking they have very big mouths and its just impossible to have a normal conversation with them.

And thats why I like Serbs. They don't talk as much but when it comes to a real fight they appeared to be very capable and reliable.

Yeah yeah it seems that you have recently joined this forum and haven't seen dozens of threads/insults and flame wars started by Serb members, when they are faced by the other side they decide to leave this forum, they think that only they can insult/blame and tell their side of story.

[rashka]

Yeah yeah it seems that you have recently joined this forum and haven't seen dozens of threads/insults and flame wars started by Serb members, when they are faced by the other side they decide to leave this forum, they think that only they can insult/blame and tell their story.

Don't lie.

[Sarmatian]

Yeah yeah it seems that you have recently joined this forum and haven't seen dozens of threads/insults and flame wars started by Serb members, when they are faced by the other side they decide to leave this forum, they think that only they can insult/blame and tell their side of story.

For an average Western European Serbs may look a bit emotional and overreacting. But they are not even close to Albanians.

[Kanuni]

For an average Western European Serbs may look a bit emotional and overreacting. But they are not even close to Albanians.

No,they always started to insult well some specific members started this flamewars,and threads ended up in insulting eachother by both sides the same story going around.

[Minesweeper]

For an average Western European Serbs may look a bit emotional and overreacting. But they are not even close to Albanians.



Their perfect country is a mafia state, their politicians are selling drugs, cigaretes and weapons and uses Kosovo police to extort money from local businessmen. Their liberation army was financed by selling heroin and cocaine to the Western Europe, not to mention organs theft and cannabis plantations in Albania.

Their country is a mess, a safe heaven for Albanian mafia. Everything that worths a shit there is built or brought by the Serbs.

[Kanuni]

Their perfect country is a mafia state, their politicians are selling drugs, cigaretes and weapons and uses Kosovo police to extort money from local businessmen. Their liberation army was financed by selling heroin and cocaine to the Western Europe, not to mention organs theft and cannabis plantations in Albania.

Their country is a mess, a safe heaven for Albanian mafia. Everything that worths a shit there is built or brought by the Serbs.

Yeah yeah we have heard this boring stories all the time.

[Minesweeper]

Yeah yeah we have heard this boring stories all the time.

Well, what does that mean?:D

Where is a smoke, there is a fire and you are smoking like a chimney.:coffee:

[Falkata]

Thats why the rest of Europe don't like Albanians.

In fact albanians are the most hated european immigrants by far. The majority of them are violent criminals. People hate albanians more than extra-european immigrants like west africans or chineses

[Flintlocke]

Hey guys the Kosovo regional is a great move. That way we can keep the Albania section clean for us Ubermesch and all these bullshit flame threads will go in the Kosovo section. :coffee:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/424905_350281221682887_192038987507112_1089431_746 255235_n.jpg

[Geronimo]

Romania and Albania are 2 problem states in the region of Balkans,because of ultra-nationalism.

In Romania goverment/state institutions/universities do not want to make Y DNA tests so they keep with "romanians are latins".More people mixed to give romanian people,local people from here being most of them.Sure there are colonists from Roman Empire also but no one can know if they are from Latium,where latins where.
Population from Romania is close with serbs/croats on Y DNA and pretty close to albanians and greeks - today romanians.

Most roman colonists in Dacia were from the province of Noricum (present day Austria, Slovenia and norther Italy). Nobody denies the fact that romanians overlap with their neighbours. I haven't seen one romanian in this forum saying something else. I doubt the fact that romanians overlap with greeks or albanians.



This ultranationalism is not good,albanians I think say they are some kind of unique people.

Albanians are pretty unique, at least culturally.



Romania give a lot of resources to US because the paranoia of leaders so US will bring in Romania more troops,cause they think someone want to attack Romania.
You saw when Serbia was to enter UE Romania president said "romanian minorities rights" are not respected in Serbia and wanted to make problems for Serbia.

OK the US part is obviously a lie, where did you hear that romanian authorities fear an attack ? I'm afraid that in this case you're the paranoid.

Yes and what's the problem with Basescu asking for romanians to be respected in Serbia ? Romanians are ill-treated in Serbia they dont have the right to learn or preach in their own language, they were forced to adopt serbian names. This romanian-serbian "friendship" goes only one way, romanians respect their neighbours, serbs do not.


For people in Kosovo would be better if they would be under Serbia,they would get better education,better morality,better life conditions and so on.

better my ass, 2 milllion albanians living under serb rule ? don't make me laugh


I am really tired of all this ultranationalism and paranoia I see on a lot of romanians "Russia want to attack us" "russians are doing conspirations" and so on and so on.
With this mentality albanians and romanians will never become modern nations. I am very sad when I compare how advanced is Serbia and they have a war with Romania. Romania is behind Bulgaria last country in UE as civilisation,morality,human rights,level of living and so on and so on.
Republic of Moldova is much better than Romania also,from this zone only Albania is worse/same level with Romania as civilisation and economic development (rather call it non-development) human rights etc etc.
The main cause is the ultranationalism which bring a lot of paranoia with it.
Albania and Romania now = 3rd world,some kind of more developed Somalia.
I know what I talk,I am in Romania.

What the hell are you smoking about ? "Russians want to attack us", where did you hear this you lame troll ? Serbia more advanced and stronger than Romania ? Do you know the size of the romanian and serbian armies and what kind of equipment they have ? :)
Romanian is one the poorest countries in EU but not the last one (of that I'm sure). I have nothing against Bulgaria, but that's the truth, at least that's what stats are saying.

Republic of Moldova better than Romania :laugh: OK I heard it all now :thumb001: Somalia is in your head kido.

[Viljuska]

This forum is not welcomed for the Serbs anymore. I do not understand how you did not figure it out by now. Lena was told to leave the forum, which also applies to the others. Look what is happening about other things regarding Serbia. Kosovo regional? Leo as a mod? Ask Loki what's the reason behind all of this, if he have the guts, he will explain, I won't do it, but it goes much deeper than you would think. This is my the most friendliest advice to the Serbs around here. I was here for 3 years and I am out of this place. Peace to all of you. Radojica

@Loki
So Serbs are not welcome anymore?

I noticed you removed Minesweepers thread/question about new Kosovo section yesterday.
What happened to freedom of speech and "shouting of the roofs"?

Maybe you should write on front page what official stance the Apricity has on political questions? Just saying..

European preservation? To be honest this seems to be a forum for supporting muslims.

I'm new here so no big loss for me, but it is amazing how you pushed away people that has been here for years.

So with most Serbs gone I guess you still have the Illyrian- dreamteam (Ushtari, Rron, Leo, Drawing-live & Co) to represent the Balkans, but I think they will be bored now with just a few Fyromanians left :)

[Ushtari]

DksSPZTZES0

[Lena]

This forum is not welcomed for the Serbs anymore. I do not understand how you did not figure it out by now. Lena was told to leave the forum, which also applies to the others. Look what is happening about other things regarding Serbia. Kosovo regional? Leo as a mod? Ask Loki what's the reason behind all of this, if he have the guts, he will explain, I won't do it, but it goes much deeper than you would think. This is my the most friendliest advice to the Serbs around here. I was here for 3 years and I am out of this place. Peace to all of you. Radojica


I just noticed that there is Kosovo subforum... and there is no subforums for some real states
I am also leaving, there are some good members and I wish them best.
@Loki go fuck some goats.


Srbi ne klonite duhom .Ovakav tretman od Arnauta i drugih djavola nije novost ...


Why was she told to leave the forum? What is the difference between that and banning? What was the reason behind all this? All I can think of is money. Does he want funding from the Albanian narco terrorists?


I'm gone too.


@Loki
So Serbs are not welcome anymore?

I noticed you removed Minesweepers thread/question about new Kosovo section yesterday.
What happened to freedom of speech and "shouting of the roofs"?

Maybe you should write on front page what official stance the Apricity has on political questions? Just saying..

European preservation? To be honest this seems to be a forum for supporting muslims.

I'm new here so no big loss for me, but it is amazing how you pushed away people that has been here for years.


If we're undesirable here let 'them' ban us! :wink
One very good friend of mine, very bright person told me-Lena, don't be such a gay, fight!

Ajde Jano (EYE-deh YAH-noh) is a line dance from a Kosmet, a region is southern Serbia.
It was presented by Anatol Joukowsky at the University of the Pacific Folk Dance Camp, 1957.

Rhythm: 7/8, counted as 3+2+2, counted Slow-Quick-Quick (SQQ)
Formation: Open circle, facing diagonally right of center. Hands are joined and held down-No pasaran!

Nigel Kennedy respects and loves Serbian traditional songs from Southern Province of Kosovo and Metohija.

1UPlyQow2rI

So Albos, you can rant and rave, you can expel every single Serb from our land, even this forum, but you can't kill culture no-no!

[Ushtari]

So Albos, you can rant and rave, you can expel every single Serb from our land, even this forum, but you can't kill culture no-no!
The irony :rolleyes2:

[The Lawspeaker]

O.K gentlemen. Knock it off.

[Adrian]

I would like to quote you, because you are among the few that didn't use offensive language.


Well, it was Serbian before it became independent but Kosovo was already Serbian as much as Croatia or Macedonia was.

Kosovo has been part of Yugoslavia, not Serbia. With the beginning of the destruction of Yugoslavia, Serbia has illegally annexed Kosovo. The exact date is Milosevic's speech in Gazimestan, Kosovo, in 1989. This is the date that the Kosovo institutions were dissolved by Milosevic and less than 10% of the population (serbs) has began to rule 90% of population (albanians). Repression that has occurred until 1999 can not be imagined even from Steven Spielberg. All Albanians were fired from their works, children were forced to left the school, political activists were imprisoned, the Albanians in the Yugoslav army were killed etc!


If we calculate who controlled Kosovo and for how long, the least one was Serbs. Even the 1st Bulgar empire controlled Kosovo longer than them. Serbian kingdom founded in 14th century but after a brief period, like 40 years, Turks took control of them and made them vassals and took possession of Kosovo for about ~500 years. It only became Serbian again after 1912 and this continued `till 1999. So, we can say that Serbs controlled Kosovo for no more than 120 years throughout history.

In all periods of history, Kosovo had a clear regional lines. Even though it has been occupied by foreign forces, Kosova has been treated like a separate region. During the Ottoman Empire was called the Kosovo Vilayet.


Ohh, it was a Roman territory before all that but we don't even know who lived there during that period or a proper city like Kosovo even existed or not at that time. Maybe it was a desolate place, a woody land, who knows.

No, you are wrong. Ancient Kosova (Dardania) has existed before the establishment of the Roman Empire. Dardans mentioned for the first time in IV century BC when king Bardyllis succeeded into bringing various tribes in a single organization. Bard = alb. Bardh (eng. white), Yli = alb.Ylli (eng. star). Dardanet were not simply a disorganized group of citizens, but have had genuine organization and their hosts has been among the strongest of the time. Some of ancient cities of Dardania were Ulpiana, Theranda, Vicianum, Skopi, Vindenis etc. Terracottas in my avatar are more than 6000 years old and are found near Prishtina. Archaeological working places are open to everyone who visits Kosovo and there everything is clear!

[Minesweeper]

[B]This is the date that the Kosovo institutions were dissolved by Milosevic and less than 10% of the population (serbs) has began to rule 90% of population (albanians).



Like in Apartheid, civilized and educated group rules over savages.:cool:

[Ushtari]

Turks have more right to Kosovo than Serbs, they ruled it much longer than Serbs

[Lena]

Prizren, Serbian autonomous province of Kosovo and Metohija, name comes from old Serbian Призрѣнь, from при-зрѣти, indicating fortress which could be seen from afar.

Serbian King Stefan Milutin raised the church of Our Holy Lady of Ljeviš in Prizren which became the seat of the Serbian Orthodox Prizren Episcopate.
During the reign of Emperor Stefan Dušan throughout the 14th century, Prizren had the Imperial Court, seated in the fortress now known as Kaljaja, and that court was the political center of the Serbian Empire. Serb Emperor Dušan raised the massive Monastery of Saint Archangel near the city in 1343–1352. In the vicinity of Prizren was Ribnik town where the two Serbian Emperors had their Courts. The city of Prizren became known as the Serbian Constantinople because of its trading and industrial importance. It was the centre of production of silk, fine trades and a colony of merchants from Kotor and Dubrovnik. In the 14th century Prizren was the seat of the Ragusan Consule for the entire Serb monarchy.

Prizren, Dushan's city :)

Еј, у Призрену зелена јабука
mjRwNclgbPk

[Adrian]

If we're undesirable here let 'them' ban us! :wink
One very good friend of mine, very bright person told me-Lena, don't be such a gay, fight!

Ajde Jano (EYE-deh YAH-noh) is a line dance from a Kosmet, a region is southern Serbia.
It was presented by Anatol Joukowsky at the University of the Pacific Folk Dance Camp, 1957.

Rhythm: 7/8, counted as 3+2+2, counted Slow-Quick-Quick (SQQ)
Formation: Open circle, facing diagonally right of center. Hands are joined and held down-No pasaran!

Nigel Kennedy respects and loves Serbian traditional songs from Southern Province of Kosovo and Metohija.

So Albos, you can rant and rave, you can expel every single Serb from our land, even this forum, but you can't kill culture no-no!

This logic caused 300,000 victim in the late twentieth century. In Kosovo section you are also invited to give your contribute. For the sake of impartiality section is not called Republic of Kosova, but Kosovo. Flag that has to be used is not the Albanian flag but it is internationally accepted and six stars of the flag symbolize the six nations who populate Kosovo, including Serbs!
There will be respected all the rights that we have guaranteed on the constitution of Kosovo. Kosovo constitution is qualified by all as one of the most liberal constitutions in the World.You, Serbs of Serbia, cause a lot of damages to the Kosovo Serbs. They are part of the Kosovo institutions, but imported nationalism from serbia don't allows them to make a quiet life!

[Adrian]

Like in Apartheid, civilized and educated group rules over savages.:cool:

I am trying to be polite with you, I expect this to be mutually. Those who offend will face consequences!

[Lena]

King Milutin’s biography written by Archbishop Danilo II in 1324 bears the title:

ON THE TWENTY NINETH DAY OF THE MONTH OF OCTOBER, THE LIFE AND WORK OF THE MOST HONORABLE, CHRIST-LOVING, HOLY BY DESCENT, POWERFUL AND SOVEREIGN BY GOD, MASTER AND KING STEFAN UROS, GREAT GRANDSON OF SAINT SIMEON NEMANJA, NEW SERBIAN RESTORER OF PEACE, GRANDSON OF KING STEFAN PRVOVENCANI (i.e. First-Crowned), AND SON OF THE GREAT KING STEFAN UROS.

King Milutin’s female lineage is also well known. His mother was Helen of Anjou of French royal ancestry and his grandmother was Italian, Ana Dandolo, granddaughter of the Venetian doge; his grandfather’s wife Ana-Anastasia was probably a Serbian-Bosnian.

King Milutin is indisputably one of the most important Serbian rulers, not only in the Middle Ages, but also in general.
He lived in a time of so-called Paleologos Renaissance when, after the fall of the Roman Empire, Byzantine regained Constantinople and the Balkan regions and started rebuilding the state and culture with renewed vigor. Milutin completely turned to Constantinople and was thus actively involved in great cultural improvement efforts of his time. His biographers wrote about his grand building projects.

He built towns, summer-houses, especially in Kosovo, erected and funded churches and monasteries all over the Christian lands, from Mount Sinai, Jerusalem, Constantinople, Thessalonica, to Mount Athos and all regions of Serbian territory. That impressive building activity was followed by development in arts, painting, literature and applied arts that were connected with church and books. Milutin also built hospitals, improved large monastery properties as economic resources, issued coins, opened coalmines etc.

Banjska Monastery

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/44/Banjska_monastery-2010-1.JPG
The monastery, along with St. Stephen's Church was built between 1313 and 1317 and was founded by the Serb King Stefan Uroš II Milutin.
Banjska Monastery is one of the few for which the founding charter has been preserved. From it we can see that the monastery was granted a large estate at its founding, of 75 VILLAGES and 8 pastures.


KOSOVO IS SERBIA!

[Lena]

. For the sake of impartiality section is not called Republic of Kosova, but Kosovo.


The name "Kosovo"
By: J. P. Maher Ph. D.
Professor Emeritus of Linguistics
Northeastern Illinois University Chicago

"Kosovo" is a Serbian place name, more fully "kosovo polje", meaning the 'field (or plain) of blackbirds'. "Kosovo Polje" lies just outside the city of Prishtina.
Ornithology lesson: Among North Americans, Australians, and South Africans, only ornithologists can identify the species in question. Kosovo's "black bird" is no crow, nor raven, no starling nor grackle, but "turdus merula", European cousin of the North American rusty-bellied thrush ("turdus migratorius"), which Yanks call the "robin".
...
Proof of the Serbian origin of the name and the loanword status of the immigrant Albanian term is that the word "kosovo" has a clear etymology to anyone who knows a Slavic language, while Albanian "Kosova" is an opaque, meaningless place name in the Albanian language.

____________________


Kosovo is Serbia!

[Minesweeper]

I am trying to be polite with you, I expect this to be mutually. Those who offend will face consequences!

You changed a lot in just a few days, we'll see how long you'll last, but knowing the old you, not long imo.;)

[Ushtari]

Prizren, Serbian autonomous province of Kosovo and Metohija, name comes from old Serbian Призрѣнь, from при-зрѣти, indicating fortress which could be seen from afar.]
Prizren is an old settlement from roman time and was named Theranda before, ie long before you guys settled in Kosovo

[Ushtari]

The name "Kosovo"
By: J. P. Maher Ph. D.
Professor Emeritus of Linguistics
Northeastern Illinois University Chicago

"Kosovo" is a Serbian place name, more fully "kosovo polje", meaning the 'field (or plain) of blackbirds'. "Kosovo Polje" lies just outside the city of Prishtina.
Ornithology lesson: Among North Americans, Australians, and South Africans, only ornithologists can identify the species in question. Kosovo's "black bird" is no crow, nor raven, no starling nor grackle, but "turdus merula", European cousin of the North American rusty-bellied thrush ("turdus migratorius"), which Yanks call the "robin".
...
Proof of the Serbian origin of the name and the loanword status of the immigrant Albanian term is that the word "kosovo" has a clear etymology to anyone who knows a Slavic language, while Albanian "Kosova" is an opaque, meaningless place name in the Albanian language.

____________________


Kosovo is Serbia!
The original name for Kosova "Dardania" can be translated with the Albanian language, only.

[Adrian]

You changed a lot in just a few days, we'll see how long you'll last, but knowing the old you, not long imo.;)

I don't remember that I was rude like you, except in cases when you exceeded the limit!

[Lena]

From Serbia with love to the world :)


Medieval Monuments in Kosovo is a WORLD HERITAGE SITE consisting of four SERBIAN Orthodox Christian churches and monasteries which represent the fusion of the eastern Orthodox Byzantine and the western Romanesque ecclesiastical architecture to form the Palaiologian Renaissance style. The sites are located in the conflictive region of Kosovo, which Serbia considers to be its southern province.

In 2004, UNESCO recognized the Decani Monastery for its outstanding universal value. Two years later, the site of patrimony was extended as a serial nomination, to include three other religious monuments.

Hence, the properly Medieval Monuments in Kosovo now consists of:

-Decani Monastery
http://whc.unesco.org/uploads/thumbs/site_0724_0001-469-0-20100120171311.jpg

-Patriarchate of Pec Monastery
http://photos.travellerspoint.com/39247/large_Pecka_Patrijarsija.jpg

-Our Lady of Ljevis (The Church was guarded by KFOR after June 1999. However, it was burned down during the 2004 unrest in Kosovo by Albanian mobs.
A group of experts sponsored by Serbia has visited the church on several occasions to assess the damage, but no concrete steps have been taken. The church is subject to constant looting (valuable lead has repeatedly been stolen from the roof).

-Gracanica Monastery
http://www.kosovo.net/gracanica_largey.jpg

In 1996 the property was inscribed on the World Heritage List in Danger due to difficulties in its management and conservation stemming from the region's "political instability".

http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/724

______________________

Kosovo is Serbia!

[Minesweeper]

I don't remember that I was rude like you, except in cases when you exceeded the limit!

:rolleyes:

[Lena]

The original name for Kosova "Dardania" can be translated with the Albanian language, only.

This is internet, you can call your self a lemon if you wish to, but it won't change your appearance in RL.
On the other hand that logic you are trying to impose on others, brought only misery to people and caused many deaths.

Everyone who even opened the history books and has at least some basic understanding of the history, knows that Dardani, as a border tribe, were of the mixed origin, could be Thracian as well. Also, Illyrians is a blanket term for a bunch of tribes who were absolutely insignificant from the historical point of view 'cause they never left anything valuable to the civilization.

[Ushtari]

This is internet, you can call your self a lemon if you wish to, but it won't change your appearance in RL.
On the other hand that logic you are trying to impose on others, brought only misery to people and caused many deaths.

Everyone who even opened the history books and has at least some basic understanding of the history, knows that Dardani, as a border tribe, were of the mixed origin, could be Thracian as well. Also, Illyrians is a blanket term for a bunch of tribes who were absolutely insignificant from the historical point of view 'cause they never left anything valuable to the civilization.
While most scholars agree that Dardania was pred. Illyrian with thracian influences in the east, it dosnt change the fact that the name can be explained with the Albanian language.

[Lena]

:rolleyes:


Mines, don't bother, we know who he is and as the saying goes- Вук длаку мења али ћуд никада!

[Lena]

While most scholars agree that Dardania was pred. Illyrian with thracian influences in the east, it dosnt change the fact that the name can be translated with the Albanian language.

Ushtari, if you have a good command of one lang and know how to use it skilfully for your own agenda, every single word can be 'translated' to suit your needs. On the other hand, if you don't have a solid proof/historical evidence for what you're saying, you risk to sound like a charlatan.
Most scholars are not all scholars and there applies my last sentence above. For a numerous reasons we simply can't go so deep in the history and claim one or the other, thus you can only speculate, but if it makes you feel better, go ahead.

[Ushtari]

Ushtari, if you have a good command of one lang and know how to use it skilfully for your own agenda, every single word can be 'translated' to suit your needs. On the other hand, if you don't have a solid proof/historical evidence for what you're saying, you risk to sound like charlatan.
Most scholars are not all scholars and there applies my last sentence above. For a numerous reasons we simply can't go so deep in the history and claim one or the other, thus you can only speculate, but if it makes you feel better, go ahead.
So you think this is my own homemade theories?

You wrote an interesting thing in your former post, ie "Everyone who even opened the history books and has at least some basic understanding of the history"

well, if you would have to read those history books, you would have known that Dardania indeed was pred. illyrian.



(Kosovo itself was part of the tribal land of the Dardanians, who almost certainly belonged to the Illyrian grouping.)
http://www.scribd.com/doc/8699791/Noel-Malcolm-Origins-Serbs-Albanians-and-Vlachs


Otherwise, the only evidence available consists of proper names: place-names, personal names and tribal names, preserved in Latin or Greek inscriptions and the works of ancient historians. There are several thousand such names altogether; but the difficulties of interpretation are immense. Trying to extract a language from such evidence is rather like some linguists of the distant future trying to work out the true nature of the English language on the basis of 'Edinburgh', 'Lancaster', 'Whitby', 'Grosvenor', 'Gladstone', 'Victoria' and 'Disraeli'. Place-names are often the remnants of an earlier language; personal names may reflect cultural influences (it has been observed that if future linguists knew only the names 'Carlo' and 'Lodovico', they would assume that the Italian language was a type of German); and in any case we have no reason to suppose that the ancient Balkans were any less of a linguistic hotchpotch than they have been for most of the rest of their history. [40] On balance, there are more examples of plausible links between Illyrian names and Albanian words than there are in the case of Thracian (though there are some of both, and some names were common to the two ancient languages). Most of these relate to place-names in the area of central and northern Albania, such as the river Mat (Alb.: mat, river-bank) or the town of Ulqin or Ulcinium (Alb.: ujk or ulk, wolf), or indeed the early name for the Kosovo area, 'Dardania' (Alb.: dardhe, pear).
http://www.scribd.com/doc/8699791/Noel-Malcolm-Origins-Serbs-Albanians-and-Vlachs

[Viljuska]

While most scholars agree that Dardania was pred. Illyrian with thracian influences in the east, it dosnt change the fact that the name can be explained with the Albanian language.
There is no proven connection between Albanians and all Illyrians, only speculations. Even if there was a connection, you guys lost continuity because you convertet to ISLAM remember? You do not belong in Europe anymore.

[Lena]

So you think this is my own homemade theories?

You wrote an interesting thing in your former post, ie "Everyone who even opened the history books and has at least some basic understanding of the history"

well, if you would have to read those history books, you would have known that Dardania indeed was pred. illyrian.



http://www.scribd.com/doc/8699791/Noel-Malcolm-Origins-Serbs-Albanians-and-Vlachs


http://www.scribd.com/doc/8699791/Noel-Malcolm-Origins-Serbs-Albanians-and-Vlachs

'Almost certainly' this and 'almost certainly' that is not good enough, Ushtari-you risk to sound like a charlatan.
Not to mention centuries huge gap you need to patch in order to link your self to anything related to any tribe mentioned or to the one who'd be mentioned in a future.

[Lena]

Tsar Lazar and Tsaritsa Militsa

Now when at Krushevats the Tsar is camped
And takes his supper on the eve of battle
Militsa his Queen implores him thus-
"O Lazar, Golden Crown of Serbia,
You ride tomorrow out to Kosovo
And take away your servants & your knights,
You leave me no one at the castle, Sire,
Who'd ride out with a letter to the field
Of Kosovo and bring an answer back
You take away with you my nine dear brothers,
All the Yugovichi ride with you
I ask you this leave but one behind
Leave me just one brother here to swear by."
And Lazarus thus speaks to her and says
"My Lady Militsa, my dear Tsaritsa-
Which brother is it you would like for me
To leave with you in this white castle tower?"
And she:- "Give me Boshko Yugovich!"
And he, noble Prince of all the Serbs.
"My Lady Militsa, my dear Tsaritsa,
Tomorrow when the white day brightly dawns,
When the day dawns, the sun bright in the east,
And when the portals of the town are opened,
Go and stand beside those city gates
For there will pass the army in its ranks
And all the horsemen with their battle-lances
Boshko Yugovich will lead them all
And carry high the cross-emblazoned banner
Give him all my blessings and say this.
That he shall give the flag to someone else
And stay with you in this white castle tower "
When dawn has broken early in the morning
And the portals of the town are opened
Out she walks, Lazarus's queen,
And goes to stand beside the city gate
Where all the army passes by in ranks
Out before the warriors with their lances
Comes her brother, Boshko Yugovich,
Riding in his noble golden armor
On his golden-harnessed battle stallion
Holding high the cross-emblazoned banner
Which envelops him, my brothers, to the waist.
On the staff there is a golden apple,
And on the apple golden crosses stand
From which there hang several golden tassels
Dangling in the breeze about his shoulders.
Now Tsaritsa Militsa goes up to him
And takes his horse's bridle in her hand.
She puts her arms around her brother's neck
And thus she softly speaks to him and says:
"O my brother, Boshko Yugovich,
Lazarus has given you to me
And tells you not to go to Kosovo;
He sends his blessing to you and he says:
To give your flag to anyone you like
And stay with me at white-walled Krushevats
That I will have a brother here to swear by."
Boshko Yugovich then speaks like this:
"Go back, my sister, to your castle tower
It is not for me to go with you
Or give away this banner that I hold
Even if the Tsar would give me Krushevats;
What would all my comrades say of me?
Look upon this coward Yugovich!
The one who dares not go to Kosovo
And spill his blood for Jesus' Holy Cross
And for his faith to die upon that plain."
With that he spurs his horse on through the gate.
And next rides out Yug Bogdan, Boshko's father,
And behind him seven Yugovichi;
One by one she stops them and implores them
But not a one would even look at her.
She waits in misery beside the portals
Until her brother Voin comes riding past
Leading close behind him Lazar's horses
All caparisoned with golden trappings.
She stops his chestnut, takes it by the bridle,
And then she throws her arms around her brother.
Thus she softly speaks to him and says:
"O Voin Yugovich, my dearest brother,
Lazar gives you to me for a present!
He sends his blessing to you and he says:
Give to someone else those noble horses
And stay with me at white-walled Krushevats
That I will have a brother here to swear by."
Her brother Voin thus answers her and says:
"Go back, my sister, to your castle tower-
For as a warrior I may not return,
Nor would I leave these horses of the Tsar
Even if I knew that I would perish.
I ride out to the level field of Kosovo
To spill my blood for Jesus' Holy Cross
And die with all my brothers for the faith."
With that he spurs his horse on through the gate.
When Lady Militsa has seen all this
She falls down fainting on the cold hard stone
And lies unconscious, still as if in death.
Glorious Lazar, Prince of all the Serbs,
Is next to pass, and when he sees his queen
He weeps, and tears flow down his cheeks.
He looks around him turns to left and right,
And calls out to his servant Goluban:
"Goluban, my dear and faithful servant,
Dismount at once from your white horse
And take my lady in your strong white arms
And carry her into the narrow tower.
I free you before God from your grave oath.
Do not ride out to fight at Kosovo
But stay with her inside the castle tower."
When Goluban has heard his master's words
He weeps, and tears flow down his cheeks;
As ordered he dismounts from his white horse
And lifts the lady up in his white arms
And carries her into the castle tower.
But yet his heart torments him: he must go
And ride to battle on the Blackbirds' Field.
Turning back at once to his white horse
He mounts and rides to level Kosovo.
...

________________________________

Did you know that Jacobs Grim and Goethe, learned Serbian language in order to read Serbian Epic poetry in original.In 1824. Vuk S. Karadzic was a Goethe's guest and next year Goethe published translation of the Serbian epic poetry.

[Kanuni]

This is internet, you can call your self a lemon if you wish to, but it won't change your appearance in RL.
On the other hand that logic you are trying to impose on others, brought only misery to people and caused many deaths.

Everyone who even opened the history books and has at least some basic understanding of the history, knows that Dardani, as a border tribe, were of the mixed origin, could be Thracian as well. Also, Illyrians is a blanket term for a bunch of tribes who were absolutely insignificant from the historical point of view 'cause they never left anything valuable to the civilization.

That is not true at all.They were related tribes because they needed no translators to communicate eachother not to mention other facts/arguments.Throughout history demographics of people can change a lot who would have guessed that at one time Europe was dominated by G2a carrying males?

And your last statement just shows your ignorance and subjectivity about this topic.Truth is that whether you like it or not Kosovars are the most native populations in Balkans their male lineages composed of EV13 dominating, followed by R1b and J2b2 just confirms the historical and linguistic rights over this lands on the other hands your claim is absurd based on some medieval churches.

Grow up and deal with the reality!

[Ushtari]

'Almost certainly' this and 'almost certainly' that is not good enough, Ushtari-you risk to sound like a charlatan.
Not to mention centuries huge gap you need to patch in order to link your self to anything related to any tribe mentioned or to the one who'd be mentioned in a future.
Everything regarding ancient history is speculations, nothing is 100% certain. But I rather take the word of scholars than yours.

[MandM]

why do u even start threads like this we all no the out come of it any way, we all have our opinion on stuff like this, and no one will convince any serb about albanian side of the story and no albanian will be convinced of serbian side ot the story,when serbs gives evidence that dosent suite u, u will say its propaganda or somthing else and vice verce, we will never finde a comen ground so why do we bother argueng about thinks like this

[Lena]

Everything regarding ancient history is speculations, nothing is 100% certain. But I rather take the word of scholars than yours.


Which means you can't prove anything and I'm sure that any reasonable person can see that this thread came to the end. What took you so long I wouldn't know :D

[Ushtari]

why do u even start threads like this we all no the out come of it any way, we all have our opinion on stuff like this, and no one will convince any serb about albanian side of the story and no albanian will be convinced of serbian side ot the story,when serbs gives evidence that dosent suite u, u will say its propaganda or somthing else and vice verce, we will never finde a comen ground so why do we bother argueng about thinks like this
What evidence? when you actually quote and link to serious impartial sources, i might take you seriously. The only thing you guys have done so far is is presenting Serbian homemade copy-pastes from various forums and/or far fetched theories not supported by any serious scholar.

[Ushtari]

Which means you can't prove anything and I'm sure that any reasonable person can see that this thread came to the end. What took you so long I wouldn't know :D
Well for your information, us being indigenous in the region is a proven fact.

Whether Dardanians were illyrians or Thracians is not of any importance here, since it doesn't change the fact that we(Albanians) are descendants of these people.

[Lena]

That is not true at all.They were related tribes because they needed no translators to communicate eachother [/B]

Hahaha! How exactly you know that, if I may ask? Don't be so childish, Leo :D It's absolutely hilarious.

[Ushtari]

Hahaha! How exactly you know that, if I may ask? Don't be so childish, Leo :D It's absolutely hilarious.
Illyrians were grouped together as "illyrians" due to similar language and culture.

[Kanuni]

Which means you can't prove anything and I'm sure that any reasonable person can see that this thread came to the end. What took you so long I wouldn't know :D

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ec/Dardania_kingdom.png

It is well known that Albanian is derived from Paleo-Balkan language most likely a creole between Illyrian-Thracian any mixture between Thracians and Illyrians would have been no detectable since they were much probably genetically very close.


A six-year long DNA research of the Balkan peoples conducted by Skopje Forensics Medicine Institute has showed remarkable resemblance among them.

The Macedonian scientists received samples and data from most of the Balkan countries, except from Greece, who refused to take part in the project. All he analysis of the data has showed that residents of Macedonia have the most similar DNA with Bulgarians and Serbs, Croats with Bosnian and Serbian population while Kosovo Albanians have the fewest similarities with the others,” says Forensics Medicine Institute’s Dr Zlatko Jakovski.the other countries sent DNA analyses of the victims who had died in their territory to Skopje.

“By using sophisticated computer technology we have compared the data from Macedonia, Serbia, Bosnia, Bulgaria, Croatia and Kosovo,” Jakovski explained.

The research has been published in the leading world forensics magazines and the results will be used in criminal investigations in cases when victims are from the Balkans.

Jakovski pointed out that the research represented a very useful scientific work and that it had nothing to do with daily politics.

Source (http://dnaconsultants.com/_blog/DNA_Consultants_Blog/post/Balkan_DNA_Studies_Compare_Former_Yugoslav_Populat ions/)

^^^You don't cluster so close to Kosovars so you cannot be more native to Alboz there.

[Adrian]

This is internet, you can call your self a lemon if you wish to, but it won't change your appearance in RL.

What appearance?


On the other hand that logic you are trying to impose on others, brought only misery to people and caused many deaths.

You are using my words to address to someone else :rolleyes:
Misery has caused those who attacked other peoples in their own land, not those who protect themselves from foreign aggressors. I can't remember that Albanians have attacked someone!


Everyone who even opened the history books and has at least some basic understanding of the history, knows that Dardani, as a border tribe, were of the mixed origin, could be Thracian as well. Also, Illyrians is a blanket term for a bunch of tribes who were absolutely insignificant from the historical point of view 'cause they never left anything valuable to the civilization.

Very good, so you admits that slavs came much later and that the territory of today Kosova has been inhabited before slavic invasions. Important step towards reality.

[Lena]

Illyrians were grouped together as "illyrians" due to similar language and culture.

Any proof of that claim :D?
Tip (free of charge)- take a look at the map and the landmass those tribal units encompassed before typing more here. Now, imagine period of history we talk about, the way ppl traveled and the way they shared information between each other and finally you may come to the conclusion I came to ages ago.

Well, duuuuuuuuuh, there's something fishy :wink

[Kanuni]

Hahaha! How exactly you know that, if I may ask? Don't be so childish, Leo :D It's absolutely hilarious.

No,the hilarious one here is you because you want to believe they were not related to suit your agenda.Go and read known scholars what they have to say about that,mixture was present even in ancient times but for sure the tribes spoke related language by the time when Illyrians made appearance.Know if you go to Stormfront your comrades believe we came from Caucasus with Ottomans even Milenko posted a link quoting Stormfront, more childish and pathetic than that it doesn't go.

[Lena]

It is well known that Albanian is derived from Paleo-Balkan language most likely a creole between Illyrian-Thracian any mixture between Thracians and Illyrians would have been no detectable since they were much probably genetically very close.


1/ Keep wiki for others.
2/ most likely, much probably and so on can't do the trick.

[Adrian]

Mines, don't bother, we know who he is and as the saying goes- Вук длаку мења али ћуд никада!

Who am I? :rolleyes:

[Kanuni]

1/ Keep wiki for others.
2/ most likely, much probably and so on can't do the trick.

OK here you go we keep this for you.You can read better theories here.

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/f43/

[Ushtari]

Any proof of that claim :D?
Tip (free of charge)- take a look at the map and the landmass those tribal units encompassed before typing more here. Now, imagine period of history we talk about, the way ppl traveled and the way they shared information between each other and finally you may come to the conclusion I came to ages ago.

Well, duuuuuuuuuh, there's something fishy :wink
Just like Thracian, Greek and Germanic are umbrella terms for people of similar language, culture and origin, so is Illyrian. This is basic stuff.


The core of "illyria" was in the south with Shkodra as its Capital, while the northern parts were much more scarcely populated.

The hills of northern Albania, Montenegro and Kosovo were used as protection against various invasion through history.


1/ Keep wiki for others.
How am i supposed to take you seriously when you deny an obvious fact? ie that the Albanian language is evolved from a paleo-balkan language?

[Europa]

Kosovo has been inhabited since the Neolithic Era. During the medieval period, Kosovo was the center of the Serbian empire and saw the construction of many important Serb religious sites, including many architecturally significant Serbian Orthodox monasteries. It was the site of a 14th-century battle in which invading Ottoman Turks defeated an army led by Serbian Prince Lazar.

The Ottomans ruled Kosovo for more than 4 centuries, until Serbia reacquired the territory during the First Balkan War in 1912-13. First partitioned in 1913 between Serbia and Montenegro, Kosovo was then incorporated into the Kingdom of the Serbs, Croats, and Slovenes (later named Yugoslavia) after World War I. During World War II, parts of Kosovo were absorbed into Italian-occupied Albania. After the Italian capitulation, Nazi Germany assumed control over Kosovo until Tito's Yugoslav Partisans entered at the end of the war.

During antiquity, the area which now makes up Kosovo was inhabited by various tribal ethnes, who were liable to move, englarge, fuse and fissure with neighbouring groups. As such, it is difficult to locate any such group with precision. The Dardani, whose exact ethno-linguistic affilitation is difficult to determine, were a prominent group in the region during the late Hellenistic and early Roman eras.

The area was then conquered by Rome in the 160s BC, and incorporated into the Roman province of Illyricum in 59 BC. Subsequently, it became part of Moesia Superior in AD 87. The region was exposed to an increasing number of 'barbarian' raids from the fourth century AD onwards, culminating with the so-called Slavic migrations of the 6th to 7th centuries. Archaeologically, the early Middle Ages represent a hiatus in the material record, and whatever was left of the native provincial population fused with the Sklavene colonists.

The subsequent political and demographic history of Kosovo is not known with absolute certainty until c. 13th century AD. Archaeological findings suggest that there was steady population recovery and progression of the Slavic culture seen elsewhere throughout the Balkans. The region was absorbed into the Bulgarian Empire in the 850s, where Christianity and a Byzantine-Slavic culture was cemented in the region. It was re-taken by the Byzantines after 1018, and became part of the newly established Theme of Bulgaria. As the centre of Slavic resistance to Constantinople in the region, the region often switched between Serbian and Bulgarian rule on one hand and Byzantine on the other until the Serb principality of Rascia conquered it definitively by the end of the 12th century. An insight into the region is provided by the Byzantine historian-princess, Anna Comnena, who wrote of "Serbs" being the main inhabitants of the region (referring to it as "eastern Dalmatia" and the "former Moesia Superior"). The earliest references to an Albanian population is derived from late eleventh century Byzantine chroniclers, who consistently located the Arber around the hinterland districts of Dyrrachium, modern Durrës.

The zenith of Serbian power was reached in 1346, with the formation of the Serbian Empire. During the 13th and 14th centuries, Kosovo became a political and spiritual centre of the Serbian Kingdom. In the late 13th century, the seat of the Serbian Archbishopric was moved to Pec, and rulers centred themselves between Prizren and Skopje, during which time thousands of Christian monasteries and feudal-style forts and castles were erected. When the Serbian Empire fragmented into a conglomeration of principalities in 1371, Kosovo became the hereditary land of the House of Branković. In the late 14th and the 15th century parts of Kosovo, the easternmost area of which was located near Pristina, were part of the Principality of Dukagjini, which was later incorporated an anti-Ottoman federation of all Albanian principalities, the League of Lezhë.

In the 1389 Battle of Kosovo, Ottoman forces defeated a coalition of Serbs, Albanians, and Bosnians led by the Tsar Lazar Hrebeljanović. Soon after, parts of Serbia accepted Turkish vassalage and Lazar's daughter was married to the Sultan to seal the peace. By 1455, it was finally and fully conquered by the Ottoman Empire.

Kosovo during the 20th century history has largely been characterised by wars and major population exchanges. The region formed a part of numerous entities, some internationally recognised, others not.

To revise the above as well as all the info about Kosovo I must say that I couldn't see any prove that country to has ever been independetnt state.Whether it's Serbian or Albanian I am not the one who has to decide,but it is deffinetally NOT A COUNTRY.

[Kanuni]

To revise the above as well as all the info about Kosovo I must say that I couldn't see any prove that country to has ever been independetnt state.Whether it's Serbian or Albanian I am not the one who has to decide,but it is deffinetally NOT A COUNTRY.

We are not talking about a country as per modern concept but for sure there was a kingdom and was called Dardanian kingdom

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ec/Dardania_kingdom.png/251px-Dardania_kingdom.png

and the other sure thing is that there were no Serbs/Slavs in those times.

[Onur]

I think I'll thank you for this. I always did think that the words Siberia and Serbia came from some common ancient language.
You are wrong. Siberia was the land of a Turkic tribe called Sabirs. Saberia means the land of Sabirs.


Their perfect country is a mafia state, their politicians are selling drugs, cigaretes and weapons and uses Kosovo police to extort money from local businessmen. Their liberation army was financed by selling heroin and cocaine to the Western Europe, not to mention organs theft and cannabis plantations in Albania.

Their country is a mess, a safe heaven for Albanian mafia. Everything that worths a shit there is built or brought by the Serbs.
Maybe you thought like i am supporting the Albanian cause here by refusing to call Kosovo as Serbian but i don't support anyone`s cause here because i also believe that Kosovo is not a proper country and if it belongs to anyone, then it should be everyone who currently lives there, therefor Serbs, Albanians and Turks.

I agree that Kosovo is a crime infested mafia land. Also the world`s biggest CIA base is in Kosovo and most likely there are more CIA agents in there than Serbian and Turkish population. It`s no different than Iraqi Kurdistan, a rogue state.



Kosovo has been part of Yugoslavia, not Serbia. With the beginning of the destruction of Yugoslavia, Serbia has illegally annexed Kosovo.
Yes, you are right. I just used the term Serbs because it was Serbians who ruled in Yugoslavia anyway, the rest was the subjects of them.


No, you are wrong. Ancient Kosova (Dardania) has existed before the establishment of the Roman Empire. Dardans mentioned for the first time in IV century BC when king Bardyllis succeeded into bringing various tribes in a single organization.
Ohh please no ancient fantasies. Balkans has more than enough of this. Greeks are 10.000 years old, Albanians are 7000 years old... this is just stupid romanticism. Everyone in the Balkans rooted from medieval era, no earlier than that. Yes, there was an ancient history but current people has no relation whatsoever with the ancient era dardarians, illyrians, hellenes etc.


Throughout history demographics of people can change a lot who would have guessed that at one time Europe was dominated by G2a carrying males?
Another proof that the people comes and goes. So, you have no relation whatsoever with the ancient illyrians either. We don't even know who were them and what happened to them.

[Europa]

We are not talking about a country as per modern concept but for sure there was a kingdom and was called Dardanian kingdom

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ec/Dardania_kingdom.png/251px-Dardania_kingdom.png

and the other sure thing is that there were no Serbs in those times.

You are making up history.The ancient Dardanians have nothing to do with Kosovo.

Please read my post:
The subsequent political and demographic history of Kosovo is not known with absolute certainty until c. 13th century AD. Archaeological findings suggest that there was steady population recovery and progression of the Slavic culture seen elsewhere throughout the Balkans. The region was absorbed into the Bulgarian Empire in the 850s, where Christianity and a Byzantine-Slavic culture was cemented in the region. It was re-taken by the Byzantines after 1018, and became part of the newly established Theme of Bulgaria. As the centre of Slavic resistance to Constantinople in the region, the region often switched between Serbian and Bulgarian rule on one hand and Byzantine on the other until the Serb principality of Rascia conquered it definitively by the end of the 12th century. An insight into the region is provided by the Byzantine historian-princess, Anna Comnena, who wrote of "Serbs" being the main inhabitants of the region (referring to it as "eastern Dalmatia" and the "former Moesia Superior"). The earliest references to an Albanian population is derived from late eleventh century Byzantine chroniclers, who consistently located the Arber around the hinterland districts of Dyrrachium, modern Durrës

I have highlighted the above because I infer that you are implying the Kosovars are Dardani.....

[Dacul]

Yes and what's the problem with Basescu asking for romanians to be respected in Serbia ? Romanians are ill-treated in Serbia they dont have the right to learn or preach in their own language, they were forced to adopt serbian names. This romanian-serbian "friendship" goes only one way, romanians respect their neighbours, serbs do not.


Romanians in Serbia are living much better than romanians in Romania,they have free medical services, quality education,in romanian language they do not have street dogs to kill their childrens,as romanians in Romania does,because president and members of leading party are too concerned about "foreign russian conspirations" and so on.We have an ex-CIA spy as prime minister - who knows maybe he is still a CIA spy.
As he come as prime minister he and the leading party blocked UE funds.
A very nasty connection,he was caught spying for CIA so US in Iraq.



What the hell are you smoking about ? "Russians want to attack us", where did you hear this you lame troll ? Serbia more advanced and stronger than Romania ? Do you know the size of the romanian and serbian armies and what kind of equipment they have ? :)
Romanian is one the poorest countries in EU but not the last one (of that I'm sure). I have nothing against Bulgaria, but that's the truth, at least that's what stats are saying.
Republic of Moldova better than Romania :laugh: OK I heard it all now :thumb001: Somalia is in your head kido.
[/QUOTE]

Do you have any ideea which is the medium net income/salary in Romania compared to Serbia?
Well I doubt.
In Serbia medium net income is more than double than medium net income in Romania and in Serbia prices are lower than in Romania.
What does that tells to you genius?
That living standard in Serbia is at least double than living standard in Romania.

You have no clue about what happens in Romania,a medic starting here got less than 250 euros net income and as a result a lot of medics left/are leaving Romania,a starting teacher have around 200 euros and so on so lots of teachers are leaving also.

It can be seen how you think because you compared the size of armies when I told that Romania is much behind Serbia as development.
Did you went to Republic of Moldavia?
You are clueless about it but you say Romania is better developed than them.

Which proves that a lot of actual romanians are just a bunch of fanatics ignoring reality and living in a invented world,they keep say this "we are latins" "we have a latin language" - they are living in some fantasy world,thinking they are betters and blaming others for their failures "is KGB/Rusia fault for how it is in Romania" "it is ex-comunists fault for how it is in Romania" - oh really?
Anyone who went to Italy can see the big lie whith romanians being "latins" most romanians are so clueless that they do not even know in what shit country they are living.
Even the beggers from Italy who are eating at social meals offered by Italian state are having a better meal than romanian usual worker, from the shity 250-300 euro net he is paid.
Because in Roman empire first concern of Cezar was to give the population food and also free bath for medical reasons.They had public free bath there...

They (most romanians) are so dumb,that they do not even know that no one gives a shit about your history but cares how you behave and what you know now,in the present.
Ok so Roman empire had a part of Romania for about 150 years and after they moved from here;most colonist from here where taken south of Danube where Serbia is today :) .
See that Constantine the Great also moved what remained from colonists from Romania where is today Serbia.
So much about "romanians being latins" and "descendants of colonists from Roman Empire".

Now coming back with the part "is comunists who is to blame for how Romania is today" well in fact when comunist regime was changed in 1989 Romania had 0 euros external debt some very good railroads,a very good electrical transportation network, a lot of good factories and so on.In fact a lot of these things were sold for good euros/dollars and a lot of money instead going to usefull things for population went to rulers accounts or to other useless things,like keep too many people in security services,making from Romania a police state and so on.
The mentality of these people who have as a stereotype "we are latins" "we have a latin language" is no different from the gypsies who are singing that gypsy music called "manele".
In fact,you see gypsies are called now rroma so is rRoma,think those also are saying that they are latins ,what do you say about this?

Big companies wanted to come here and invest,like Ford at Craiova or some big company from Holland which wanted to take Semanatoarea from Bucharest and make here a big factory to produce harvesters here and so on.
Do you want to know why they could not enter here?
They did not payd the bribery requested by romanians from here.
Do you even know how many kilometers of highway got Serbia compared to Romania and Serbia surface is less than half of Romania?
Romania got like 380 km of highway,Serbia got over 1000 km of highway.
Good.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E75_in_Serbia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_route_E75
This is one of the higways of Serbia,long of 600 km,longer than all highways summed from Romania.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highways_in_Serbia
You make the comparasion:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roads_in_Romania

Only highway of Albania:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A1_motorway_%28Albania%29
So let me see what is written there:
"The project was completed within 3 years by the Bechtel-Enka consortium and involved the construction of dozens of bridges and a tunnel."
Bechtel-Enka is that the company that is "building" A3 highway in Romania and managed the "great performance" to build like 52 km in like 7 or 8 years (official construction started in june 2004.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A3_motorway_%28Romania%29#Construction_progress_-_2011

Does anyone thinks that is some kind of mafia connection between Albania and Romania leaders with Bechtel an US company?
Because I do think so.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bechtel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bechtel#Major_projects
A project in Turkey in 1991,another one in Irak,"reconstruction of Kuwait" after Gulf War,...,and now what is become more intersting a highway in Croatia,another highway in Albania and guess what,Romania A3 which contract was obtained....without a proper auction/contest in which more companies should have presented their offer:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A3_motorway_%28Romania%29#Bechtel_contract_controv ersy
The prime minister from that time was mr Adrian Nastase from ex-PSD which was praised by actual president mr Basescu from PDL as "a great prime-minister".
Now going back in time,mr Basescu is part of PDL but in the past he is from the party of FSN where he was colleague with mr Nastase.
So Romania is lead by some mafia now,with connections in USA as it is case with Albania also I guess.
As they proverb says "birds of a feather,flock together".
So let me see mafia from Albania connected with high people from USA is starting a conflict invoking ultra-nationalist propaganda a war is started by manipulating serbians.
Now US come and bombard civilian infrastructure objectives in Serbia,guess they were hoping that some US company will get after to "reconstruct" what was damaged in Serbia,as it happened in Irak-Kuwait.

Now you might ask what is the mafia connection between mr Basescu which was president for the time of the "accelerated" construction and Enka SA which is from Turkey?
Mr Basescu,our actual president is half-turkish,his mother is turkish.
We did not knew about this,when we voted for him,now it came to surface.
So when people found out some people from US got afraid and put in Romania a ex-CIA spy mr Magureanu as prime-minister.
And mr Basescu tryed to block the entering of Serbia in UE for no reason,angering some people from Europe:
http://www.dw.de/dw/article/0,,15774734,00.html
"The Romanian government is demanding that Belgrade recognizes the Vlachs, a Romanian-speaking minority in Serbia, as Romanian. Even though it is far from clear whether the Vlachs themselves want this.

Serbian President Boris Tadic had traveled to Brussels to celebrate his country's official new candidate status. "Serbia accepts all the Copenhagen criteria," he said icily, referring to the EU's conditions for candidacy status. "But Serbia will not accept what is not in line with these criteria." He added that Serbia's protection of minorities now met the highest standards.

Most observers consider Romania's demand as an unnessary obstruction, and suggest that President Traian Basescu is trying to score domestic points by avenging the fact that Romania has not been allowed into the Schengen Area. German Foreign Minister Guido Westerwelle called this "not the right European spirit."

If you make the raport:
(length of highways in Albania)/(surface of country) this raport is something like Romania.


So if you make a comparasion between Serbia and Romania and Albania and see that Romania is not far from becoming a Kosovo/Albania like state,a fail state,a mafia state,a "manelist" state.

So Kosovo- mafia state created in connection with persons from USA.
Great ideea to create a Kosovo section on this forum,so people can bring here more evidence of this mafia state and eventual links to USA.

[Kanuni]

You are making up history.The ancient Dardanians have nothing to do with Kosovo.

Please read my post:
.........

http://www.mylespaul.com/gallery/data/720/implied-facepalm.jpg


Dude think twice before you post something, modern day Kosovo was the heart of Dardanians.



Another proof that the people comes and goes. So, you have no relation whatsoever with the ancient illyrians either. We don't even know who were them and what happened to them.

Yeah we know about that already and we know that almost all of your posts bear agenda.You are not making sense at all.

[Europa]

http://www.mylespaul.com/gallery/data/720/implied-facepalm.jpg


Dude think twice before you post something, modern day Kosovo was the heart of Dardanians.

??/..Therefore Kosovo has been a state since antiquity?:eek:With this logic Bulgaria has been a state long time before 681.....This is silly

[Onur]

Dude think twice before you post something modern day Kosovo was the heart of Dardanians.
Just answer me this question;

If Albanians really had connection with antique people and if Albanians are the descendants(cultural or genetically, whatever) of ancient Dardanians or illyrians, then how come we don't have any Albanian documents no earlier than 15th century? Is this logic?

[Kanuni]

??/..Therefore Kosovo has been a state since antiquity?:eek:With this logic Bulgaria has been a state long time before 681.....This is silly

And who said that?Check my post don't try to twist words.


We are not talking about a country as per modern concept but for sure there was a kingdom and was called Dardanian kingdom

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ec/Dardania_kingdom.png/251px-Dardania_kingdom.png

and the other sure thing is that there were no Serbs/Slavs in those times.

[Europa]

Just answer me this question;

If Albanians really had connection with antique people and if Albanians are the descendants(cultural or genetically, whatever) of ancient Dardanians or illyrians, then how come we don't have any Albanian documents no earlier than 15th century? Is this logic?

I can't belive the above:eek:You actually wrote something true,that is a progress

[Ushtari]

Just answer me this question;

If Albanians really had connection with antique people and if Albanians are the descendants(cultural or genetically, whatever) of ancient Dardanians or illyrians, then how come we don't have any Albanian documents no earlier than 15th century? Is this logic?
we came down with spaceships

[Kanuni]

Just answer me this question;

If Albanians really had connection with antique people and if Albanians are the descendants(cultural or genetically, whatever) of ancient Dardanians or illyrians, then how come we don't have any Albanian documents no earlier than 15th century? Is this logic?

LOL you are still in 18th century,now we have genetic datas in disposal and some things are clearer.But no wonder that this comes from you in one of your posts you said modern Greeks are 3% descended from ancient ones.

[Lena]

The Town of Zvecan, Serbian Southern Province of Kosovo and Metohija-Zvecan Fortress and Serbian flags.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fd/Zvecan_2010.jpg

Kosovo is Serbia!

[Ushtari]

Ok all of this is interesting indeed, but what do you have to say against the text in the first post? ie by the historian Noel Malcolm?

[Ushtari]

Just answer me this question;

If Albanians really had connection with antique people and if Albanians are the descendants(cultural or genetically, whatever) of ancient Dardanians or illyrians, then how come we don't have any Albanian documents no earlier than 15th century? Is this logic?
so what do you suggest, based on scholars?

[Lena]

Serbian traditional attire from Kosovo and Metohija known for their rich styling and ornamentation:

http://www.narodnenosnje.co.rs/nosnja/kospom01.jpg http://www.narodnenosnje.co.rs/nosnja/kospom09.jpg

http://www.narodnenosnje.co.rs/nosnja/kospom08.jpg http://www.narodnenosnje.co.rs/nosnja/kosovski10.jpg

http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc432/RiznicaSrpska/Riznica%20Srpska/SrpskanosnjasaKosovaGrudinevestinskehaljinedetalj1 b.jpg

[Europa]

And who said that?Check my post don't try to twist words.

Well,I thought that being a mod here means to be unbiassed and at least educated person,but I only see ignorance and made up stories in order to fit in your own convinience.Nothing else exept one map showing a kingdom existed thousands of years ago and having nothing in common with today's Kosovo to be a prove that the above mentioned country has ever existed as a independent state is pseudo history.:coffee:

[Lena]

Ok all of this is interesting indeed, but what do you have to say against the text in the first post? ie by the historian Noel Malcolm?

Based on the article you posted, as some pointed out and rightfully so, it seams that Kosovo according to author belongs to Turks. Go figure...

[Ushtari]

Well,I thought that being a mod here means to be unbiassed and at least educated person,but I only see ignorance and made up stories in order to fit in your own convinience.Nothing else exept one map showing a kingdom existed thousands of years ago and having nothing in common with today's Kosovo to be a prove that the above mentioned country has ever existed as a independent state is pseudo history.:coffee:
I dont understand what you are denying here, that Dardania itself was in the same geographical region as todays Kosovo, or that there has never been an area called Dardania?

[Ushtari]

Based on the article you posted, as some pointed out and rightfully so, it seams that Kosovo according to author belongs to Turks. Go figure...
Well, he is describing common Serbian logic, ie that just because Serbs have ruled the area, it belongs to them. With the same logic Turks can claim the land aswell.

[Geronimo]

Romanians in Serbia are living much better than romanians in Romania,they have free medical services, quality education,in romanian language they do not have street dogs to kill their childrens,as romanians in Romania does.
Do you have any ideea which is the medium net income/salary in Romania compared to Serbia?
Well I doubt.
In Serbia medium net income is more than double than medium net income in Romania and in Serbia prices are lower than in Romania.
What does that tells to you genius?
That living standard in Serbia is at least double than living standard in Romania.

As a matter of fact I know what is the average net salary in both countries, genius :)

Serbia: 403 $
Romania: 488 $

Unemplyoment:

Serbia: 23,7 %
Romania: 7,20 %

Inflation:

Serbia: 5,6 %
Romania: 3 %


as for Republic of Moldova :laugh: I live there you nut case. The rest of your post was very long and boring, conspiracies and spy stories all over the place.

[Padre Organtino]

I have a question: what percentage of modern Kosovo toponyms are Serbian derived? And what Albanian? Are there "ancient" ones that do not have a correspondance in modern Balkan languages?

[Kanuni]

Well,I thought that being a mod here means to be unbiassed and at least educated person,but I only see ignorance and made up stories in order to fit in your own convinience.Nothing else exept one map showing a kingdom existed thousands of years ago and having nothing in common with today's Kosovo to be a prove that the above mentioned country has ever existed as a independent state is pseudo history.:coffee:


I dont understand what you are denying here, that Dardania itself was in the same geographical region as todays Kosovo, or that there has never been an area called Dardania?

Exactly the one here who is less educated and biased is you.Are you denying there was no Dardania in the area today called Kosovo?

[Europa]

I dont understand what you are denying here, that Dardania itself was in the same geographical position as todays Kosovo, or that there has never been an area called Dardania?

Offf...Once again I am not saying that Dardania has ever existed yet does not cover the area of today's Kosovo.I am saying that there are no evidences nor articles that Kosovo has been an independant country.Not to metion the rediculous claims that The Kosovars are Dardanians.

[Kanuni]

Offf...Once again I am not saying that Dardania has ever existed yet does not cover the area of today's Kosovo.I am saying that there are no evidences nor articles that Kosovo has been an independant country.Not to metion the rediculous claims that The Kosovars are Dardanians.

You can barely write without grammatical errors.

What are Kosovars then,please elaborate,do they originate from Caucasus or from North Africa or as Ush said we came with spaceships here?

[Onur]

LOL you are still in 18th century,now we have genetic datas in disposal and some things are clearer.But no wonder that this comes from you in one of your posts you said modern Greeks are 3% descended from ancient ones.
If you are an illyrian then i am a Sumerian or Etruscan from 5000 BC.

Genetics doesn't mean much in political matters. For example, current Turkish people of Aegean Anatolia are the most closest relatives of the ancient Etruscans who gave inspiration to Latin/Roman civilization and the ancestors of some Italians. Does that mean anything today? Nope.

What matters is the cultural continuity. Tell me what current Albanians have common with Dardarians of 1000 BC? Do you speak same language with them? prove me.


so what do you suggest, based on scholars?
Simple, your cultural elements belongs to medieval era just as all other people in Balkans. You have no proper connection with Dardarians, Illyrians or anyone else from antiquity, except some shallow stories without proof.


Serbian traditional attire from Kosovo and Metohija known for their rich styling and ornamentation:
All Balkans folk costumes and music is pretty much same and most likely these elements comes from Turks of Ottoman era because our peasant also wears same cloths and dances to similar music. You already use our music instruments and terminology is same too, davul, kaval, zurna, tulum, saz etc.

So, this doesn't prove anything about Serbs.

[Padre Organtino]

If you are an illyrian then i am a Sumerian or Etruscan from 5000 BC.

Genetics doesn't mean much.


It ceratinly means a lot. One simply needs to go to any troubled neighbourhood in a major European city and unsurprisingly majority of people there will belong to a set of very well definable genetic/racial enities. You of course are gong to undermine the importance as you have insecurities arising from not being ethnically Turkish.

[Ushtari]

Offf...Once again I am not saying that Dardania has ever existed yet does not cover the area of today's Kosovo.I am saying that there are no evidences nor articles that Kosovo has been an independant country.
But we are speaking about Dardania now, and it did indeed existed and was also in the same geographical region as todays Kosovo.



Not to metion the rediculous claims that The Kosovars are Dardanians.
So in other words you say that the Albanians in Kosovo today are recent immigrants, do you have any source for this?

[Europa]

[QUOTE=Leo;803668]You can barely write without grammatical errors.

Thank you.

[Lena]

You can barely write without grammatical errors.



When you're incapable of remaining neutral as a newly appointed moderator, it would be prudent to stay at least clear.

[Kanuni]

If you are an illyrian then i am a Sumerian or Etruscan from 5000 BC.

Genetics doesn't mean much in political matters. For example, current Turkish people of Aegean Anatolia are the most closest relatives of the ancient Etruscans who gave inspiration to Latin/Roman civilization and the ancestors of some Italians. Does that mean anything today? Nope.

What matters is the cultural continuity. Tell me what current Albanians have common with Dardarians of 1000 BC? Do you speak same language with them? prove me.


Don't tell me you believe the Sun Language Theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Language_Theory):D

[Onur]

You can barely write without grammatical errors.
That must be a special bulgarian character. I heard it`s possible to buy diplomas without even going to school once in there :)


Don't tell me you believe the Sun Language Theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Language_Theory):D
No i don't, but it seems like you believe Albanian equivalents of it. Thats what i am talking about.

[Ushtari]

I have a question: what percentage of modern Kosovo toponyms are Serbian derived? And what Albanian? Are there "ancient" ones that do not have a correspondance in modern Balkan languages?
Most are Slavic, wich is obvious since they ruled the area. But all the ancient names for the ancient cities have survived, such as Prizren(Theranda) and Ulpiana.

[Europa]

You can barely write without grammatical errors.

What are Kosovars then,please elaborate,do they originate from Caucasus or from North Africa or as Ush said we came with spaceships here?

There are no official studies about Kosovo's DNA.Until somebody comes up with something real all claims are speculative.

Was this the grammatical ignorance you mentioned about?
What are Kosovars then,please elaborate,do they originate from Caucasus

[Ushtari]

There are no official studies about Kosovo's DNA.Until somebody comes up with something real all claims are speculative.

Was this the grammatical ignorance you mentioned about?
What are Kosovars then,please elaborate,do they originate from Caucasus
Why do you keep ignoring my question?

[Europa]

Why do you keep ignoring my question?

Which one,mate?Remind me please!

[Ushtari]

Which one,mate?Remind me please!
Check previous posts bro

[Kanuni]

No i don't, but it seems like you believe Albanian equivalents. Thats what i am talking about.

No that is not equivalent we are talking about the most logical explanation about Albanians and i am not talking from myself but based on consensus from many scholars.

Albanian a own branch of Indo-European language not related to Slavic and Greek languages in Balkans.

Many Illyrian toponyms have found explanation with the Albanian language.

The name of the Dardanian king Bardhyli has has meaning in Albanian Bardh-White Ylli-Star WhiteStar pretty logical name for ancient times.

Todays Kosovars Y-DNA is dominated by EV13 followed by R1b(younger subclade than WestAsians but older than West European probably of local Balkan origin) and J2b2.

Not to mention various other facts which you can find typing in the net.

[Europa]

I dont understand what you are denying here, that Dardania itself was in the same geographical region as todays Kosovo, or that there has never been an area called Dardania?

This one?