Sicilian native here

[donriccardo]

Hello guys,

I am new to this forum and I have read a lot of interesting stuff. @sikeliot I see you are very expert about sicilian DNA. I just want to ask for your help in the future to understand more about this stuff, because I am mostly ignorant about haplogroups. I am 100% sicilian, born in Sicily, raised in Sicily but I've been living far away in South East Asia for 15 years. So forgive my english if there could be some mistakes, I am a sicilian native speaker.
Btw, I have tested my DNA with living DNA company and waiting yet for the results. My parents are both sicilians, I have traced my paternal family tree which goes back to the 1600, I know all of my ancestors in detail since that time and they were all sicilians. They were from the small town of Pietraperzia, today under Enna but before under Caltanissetta. However it seems one ancestor of this family came from the town of Modica (Ragusa) and he moved to Pietraperzia in 1657. From my mother side little is known, I only know her dad was from Agrigento but I can't be really sure about that side of the family because there is a rumour (which I believe it's true) my mom's grandfather was the illegitimate child of a famous politician from Agrigento. So I never tried to investigate about my mom's family tree. I hope I can get soon my DNA results so I can share them with all of you and maybe you could help me to read them.

Thank you

[Myanthropologies]

Hey there. Welcome to this forum. In terms of genetics, people from Agrigento appear to be very genetically similar to people from Malta. In GEDmatch calculators, people from Agrigento tend to score around 20-35% Caucasus ancestry (Armenia, Georgia, Chechnya, etc), between 16 and 22% Southwest Asian (Arabia), 21 - 25% Western Hunter Gatherer (pre-Neolithic Western Europe), and 30% Early European Farmer ancestry (Sardinian like DNA). Overall, this mix makes them very similar to Maltese people and people on the Western part of the Sicilian island. Sikeliot can provide more info, as he has read studies on Sicilians.

[donriccardo]

Thank you! Very interesting to know. I have noticed two of my mother's cousins from Agrigento have an amazing resemblance with Turkish people. Everyone in the family say that. However, my grandfather was blonde with blue eyes and so are my brother and my sister. We have a lot of mixed traits in my mom's family but again we are 100% sicilian.

[Sikeliot]

Thank you! Very interesting to know. I have noticed two of my mother's cousins from Agrigento have an amazing resemblance with Turkish people. Everyone in the family say that. However, my grandfather was blonde with blue eyes and so are my brother and my sister. We have a lot of mixed traits in my mom's family but again we are 100% sicilian.

While there is variation this is generally how Sicilians are genetically (keep in mind all of them are related to one another and to Maltese and Aegean islanders, so when I say one group has a "higher amount of" one thing or another I mean relative to other people in Sicily):

1. Messina and the bordering part of Catania are similar to Calabrians and to the southernmost Aegean islands (Crete, Rhodes, etc.) and have a higher amount of Caucasian ancestry.
2. Palermo, Caltanissetta, and Agrigento are similar to the Maltese and to various Jewish groups (including North African Jews), and have a higher amount of Levantine, North African, and even Southwest Asian ancestry.
3. Ragusa, Syracuse, and the southern inland part of Catania have higher Eastern European ancestry, likely from more recent Greek migrations that postdate the Slavic migration to Greece, and are similar to people from Apulia, Basilicata, and southernmost mainland Greece.
4. Trapani is extremely mixed, with lower Caucasian and higher West European ancestry (likely mainland Italian or Norman) than what is average for the island. The northern part of Trapani has higher North African, while the southern part has more Greek.

If you do not feel like reading all of that and want a simplified version: ancient Greek ancestry predating the Slavic invasion of Greece (which has had an impact on a signifiant part of the mainland Greek population) is highest along the eastern and southern coasts, while Middle Eastern and North African ancestry is highest along the north and western coasts as well as the inland regions and Agrigento.

When the ancient Greeks and Phoenicians settled Sicily originally there were 3 populations living there: Elymians in the far west from West Asia, Sicanians in the center who were the natives and dated to the Neolithic, and the Siculi from mainland Italy. The Greeks from the east and the Phoenicians from the west both pushed the indigenous inhabitants further and further inland, and then those inland regions received significant Middle Eastern input under the Carthaginian and Arab colonizations, so all of Sicily is mixed between different groups.

[Myanthropologies]

While there is variation this is generally how Sicilians are genetically (keep in mind all of them are related to one another and to Maltese and Aegean islanders, so when I say one group has a "higher amount of" one thing or another I mean relative to other people in Sicily):

1. Messina and the bordering part of Catania are similar to Calabrians and to the southernmost Aegean islands (Crete, Rhodes, etc.) and have a higher amount of Caucasian ancestry.
2. Palermo, Caltanissetta, and Agrigento are similar to the Maltese and to various Jewish groups (including North African Jews), and have a higher amount of Levantine, North African, and even Southwest Asian ancestry.
3. Ragusa, Syracuse, and the southern inland part of Catania have higher Eastern European ancestry, likely from more recent Greek migrations that postdate the Slavic migration to Greece, and are similar to people from Apulia, Basilicata, and southernmost mainland Greece.
4. Trapani is extremely mixed, with lower Caucasian and higher West European ancestry (likely mainland Italian or Norman) than what is average for the island. The northern part of Trapani has higher North African, while the southern part has more Greek.

If you do not feel like reading all of that and want a simplified version: ancient Greek ancestry predating the Slavic invasion of Greece (which has had an impact on a signifiant part of the mainland Greek population) is highest along the eastern and southern coasts, while Middle Eastern and North African ancestry is highest along the north and western coasts as well as the inland regions and Agrigento.

It's also important to note that most of the "ancient Greek" ancestry comes from the islands apparently

[Sikeliot]

It's also important to note that most of the "ancient Greek" ancestry comes from the islands apparently

It is a mixture of Euboean, Peloponnesian, Cretan, Rhodian, and Anatolian Greek. Euboeans and Peloponnesians today have some degree of Slavic ancestry so they do not match modern Sicilians as well but Crete, Rhodes, and Anatolian Greeks (from the west coast of Asia Minor) are close. Though under Byzantine rule, Sicily and Calabria did receive waves of migration from the then Greek-speaking Middle East, which further contributed to Middle Eastern ancestry from various Hellenized populations. This would have included Hellenized Syrians, Armenians, and others.

[donriccardo]

I got it, thank you. We have so many different physical traits in the family. But maybe the most unusual come from my brothers and sister children. Two of my nieces are red haired and look like Irish. My nephew is a platinum blonde (my sister is a dark blonde and her sicilian/sardinian husband is brown haired with dark skin) looks more german than sicilian. When I have my results ready, everything will be more clear. I think this is the forum I have always been looking for. :)

[Sikeliot]

I got it all, thank you. When I have my results ready, everything will be more clear.

Pietraperzia is close to Sommatino in Caltanissetta. Here is someone's result from that town if you want to see how they come out on GEDmatch... the list of populations are the top 20 closest to them in the reference set.


# Population Percent
# Population Percent
1 East_Med 30.24
2 West_Med 19.25
3 West_Asian 14.06
4 Atlantic 11.74
5 North_Sea 11.03
6 Red_Sea 6.36
7 Baltic 4.79
8 Sub-Saharan 1.01
9 Southeast_Asian 0.63
10 Northeast_African 0.57
11 Oceanian 0.22
12 Amerindian 0.09
13 Siberian 0.01

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Italian 3.69
2 East_Sicilian 4.68
3 Central_Greek 5.57
4 Italian_Jewish 5.87
5 Ashkenazi 7.49
6 Italian_Abruzzo 7.79
7 Algerian_Jewish 7.8
8 West_Sicilian 7.85
9 Sephardic_Jewish 7.94
10 Greek_Thessaly 10.95
11 Tunisian_Jewish 11.61
12 Greek 11.68
13 Libyan_Jewish 12.09
14 Tuscan 12.11
15 Cyprian 13.57
16 Lebanese_Muslim 17.33
17 Syrian 17.98
18 North_Italian 18.52
19 Bulgarian 19.11
20 Turkish 19.62

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 85.9% South_Italian + 14.1% Libyan_Jewish @ 3.16
2 74.6% South_Italian + 25.4% Italian_Jewish @ 3.3
3 93.9% South_Italian + 6.1% Algerian @ 3.38
4 66.3% Cyprian + 33.7% Spanish_Galicia @ 3.42
5 52.1% Central_Greek + 47.9% Italian_Jewish @ 3.45
6 95.3% South_Italian + 4.7% Moroccan @ 3.46
7 95.9% South_Italian + 4.1% Mozabite_Berber @ 3.53
8 95.9% South_Italian + 4.1% Egyptian @ 3.53
9 97% South_Italian + 3% Saudi @ 3.53
10 95.6% South_Italian + 4.4% Tunisian @ 3.54
11 87.2% South_Italian + 12.8% Algerian_Jewish @ 3.55
12 97.2% South_Italian + 2.8% Yemenite_Jewish @ 3.55
13 96.3% South_Italian + 3.7% Bedouin @ 3.58
14 88.8% South_Italian + 11.2% Ashkenazi @ 3.6
15 60.8% East_Sicilian + 39.2% Italian_Jewish @ 3.6
16 79% South_Italian + 21% East_Sicilian @ 3.6
17 96.9% South_Italian + 3.1% Palestinian @ 3.63
18 99.4% South_Italian + 0.6% Yoruban @ 3.63
19 99.4% South_Italian + 0.6% Mandenka @ 3.63
20 96.6% South_Italian + 3.4% Samaritan @ 3.63



And this person is half from Valguarnera in Enna and San Cataldo in Caltanissetta:



# Population Percent
1 East_Med 30.08
2 West_Med 19.65
3 Atlantic 17.27
4 West_Asian 10.55
5 Red_Sea 6.43
6 North_Sea 5.33
7 Baltic 4.5
8 Eastern_Euro 3.17
9 Sub-Saharan 1.73
10 Oceanian 0.86
11 Northeast_African 0.42

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 West_Sicilian 5.46
2 South_Italian 6.59
3 Algerian_Jewish 6.7
4 Italian_Jewish 7.35
5 Sephardic_Jewish 7.38
6 East_Sicilian 7.53
7 Central_Greek 8.48
8 Italian_Abruzzo 8.9
9 Ashkenazi 9.74
10 Greek 10.85
11 Tunisian_Jewish 11.41
12 Tuscan 11.66
13 Greek_Thessaly 13.41
14 Libyan_Jewish 14.64
15 Cyprian 15.36
16 North_Italian 17.53
17 Bulgarian 19.09
18 Lebanese_Muslim 19.63
19 Tunisian 20.2
20 Syrian 20.31

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 83.2% Algerian_Jewish + 16.8% Southwest_French @ 3.36
2 86.2% Algerian_Jewish + 13.8% French_Basque @ 3.36
3 57.5% West_Sicilian + 42.5% Algerian_Jewish @ 3.42
4 80% Algerian_Jewish + 20% Spanish_Andalucia @ 3.5
5 81.1% Algerian_Jewish + 18.9% Spanish_Valencia @ 3.5
6 82.8% Algerian_Jewish + 17.2% Spanish_Aragon @ 3.62
7 82% Algerian_Jewish + 18% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 3.7
8 75.5% Algerian_Jewish + 24.5% North_Italian @ 3.76
9 83.4% Algerian_Jewish + 16.6% Spanish_Cantabria @ 3.77
10 66.7% Algerian_Jewish + 33.3% Tuscan @ 3.82
11 60.6% Cyprian + 39.4% Spanish_Andalucia @ 3.96
12 82.6% Algerian_Jewish + 17.4% Spanish_Cataluna @ 3.97
13 62.9% West_Sicilian + 37.1% Sephardic_Jewish @ 4.08
14 62.3% Cyprian + 37.7% Spanish_Valencia @ 4.08
15 64.6% Cyprian + 35.4% Spanish_Aragon @ 4.08
16 82.6% Algerian_Jewish + 17.4% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 4.09
17 81.7% Algerian_Jewish + 18.3% Spanish_Murcia @ 4.11
18 65.5% Algerian_Jewish + 34.5% Greek @ 4.13
19 80.7% West_Sicilian + 19.3% Cyprian @ 4.15
20 81.6% Algerian_Jewish + 18.4% Spanish_Extremadura @ 4.15

[donriccardo]

Pietraperzia is close to Sommatino in Caltanissetta. Here is someone's result from that town if you want to see how they come out on GEDmatch... the list of populations are the top 20 closest to them in the reference set.




And this person is half from Valguarnera in Enna and San Cataldo in Caltanissetta:

Thank you for sharing Sikeliot. Btw, can you explain me the "Single Population Sharing" and "Mixed Population Mode" ? What do they stand for?

[Sikeliot]

Thank you for sharing Sikeliot. Btw, can you explain me the "Single Population Sharing" and "Mixed Population Mode" ? What do they stand for?

Single Population Sharing is basically a list of the top 20 populations, in order, closest to the person. Mixed Population Mode is basically saying "what two ethnicities can this person be modeled as a mixture of".

[donriccardo]

Single Population Sharing is basically a list of the top 20 populations, in order, closest to the person. Mixed Population Mode is basically saying "what two ethnicities can this person be modeled as a mixture of".

Got it. Thank you

[Sikeliot]

Got it. Thank you

I think the genetics and phenotypes match in Sicily fairly well. While there are light types throughout the island I'd say, consistent with genetics, Syracusans look the least Middle Eastern on the island.

[donriccardo]

I think the genetics and phenotypes match in Sicily fairly well. While there are light types throughout the island I'd say, consistent with genetics, Syracusans look the least Middle Eastern on the island.

Maybe it's true genetically. However across Sicily the physical traits are all varied and mixed. In each family you might find people that look nordic and others look more let's say like middle eastern. Just to give you an example...my dad and his younger brother are blonde type with fair skin while their oldest brother's skin and hair were dark. My nephews from the same parents, one is blonde with very light eyes, his brother has dark skin and black hair. It's almost impossible to distinguish sicilians from different cities. We can only do this with the DNA. I love this forum, let's collect data and study our DNA.

[donriccardo]

I remember of something that happened to me a few years ago. I was in the airport in Rome and I saw a very familiar man. I thought he was a well known sicilian photographer from my hometown Caltanissetta. He had 100% his face and physical traits. I was about to approach him and say hello but the man started to speak arabic to another friend there. So I realized he was another person. I never met before someone who had such resemblance to another. They really look alike. This made me reflect about the arabic roots of some sicilians...

[Tauromachos]

Hello guys,

I am new to this forum and I have read a lot of interesting stuff. @sikeliot I see you are very expert about sicilian DNA. I just want to ask for your help in the future to understand more about this stuff, because I am mostly ignorant about haplogroups. I am 100% sicilian, born in Sicily, raised in Sicily but I've been living far away in South East Asia for 15 years. So forgive my english if there could be some mistakes, I am a sicilian native speaker.
Btw, I have tested my DNA with living DNA company and waiting yet for the results. My parents are both sicilians, I have traced my paternal family tree which goes back to the 1600, I know all of my ancestors in detail since that time and they were all sicilians. They were from the small town of Pietraperzia, today under Enna but before under Caltanissetta. However it seems one ancestor of this family came from the town of Modica (Ragusa) and he moved to Pietraperzia in 1657. From my mother side little is known, I only know her dad was from Agrigento but I can't be really sure about that side of the family because there is a rumour (which I believe it's true) my mom's grandfather was the illegitimate child of a famous politician from Agrigento. So I never tried to investigate about my mom's family tree. I hope I can get soon my DNA results so I can share them with all of you and maybe you could help me to read them.

Thank you

Buon Giorno e buon venuti!

Tu sei un vero Siciliano?

[Sikeliot]

I remember of something that happened to me a few years ago. I was in the airport in Rome and I saw a very familiar man. I thought he was a well known sicilian photographer from my hometown Caltanissetta. He had 100% his face and physical traits. I was about to approach him and say hello but the man started to speak arabic to another friend there. So I realized he was another person. I never met before someone who had such resemblance to another. They really look alike. This made me reflect about the arabic roots of some sicilians...

I think that such phenotypes should be more common in Palermo, Agrigento, and Caltanissetta. One side of my father's family is from Messina and the other is from Palermo and they look different. My side from Messina is darker, but has less Near Eastern features.

I would be interested to see your family from Enna if you have photos because most people from Enna I see look like regular Greeks.

[donriccardo]

I think that such phenotypes should be more common in Palermo, Agrigento, and Caltanissetta. One side of my father's family is from Messina and the other is from Palermo and they look different. My side from Messina is darker, but has less Near Eastern features.

I would be interested to see your family from Enna if you have photos because most people from Enna I see look like regular Greeks.

Here is one. My paternal grandmother's parents. The man belonged to a very noble and ancient family in Pietraperzia, the woman's family came from Santa Caterina (Caltanissetta).

77904

[donriccardo]

Pietraperzia has several people with nordic phenotypes as well. The town has a castle that was once ruled by arabs but after that french normans came and they ruled it for more than 500 years. My paternal family has lived in Pietraperzia for 400 years, even though the marriage record (year 1657) of my earliest ancestor there says he came from the town of Modica (Ragusa). This summer I searched for his birth certificate in Modica but I was not able to find it. I only found one man with same name and family name, same mother's name but different father's name.

[donriccardo]

Buon Giorno e buon venuti!

Tu sei un vero Siciliano?

Si, thank you.

[Bobby Martnen]

Hello guys,

I am new to this forum and I have read a lot of interesting stuff. @sikeliot I see you are very expert about sicilian DNA. I just want to ask for your help in the future to understand more about this stuff, because I am mostly ignorant about haplogroups. I am 100% sicilian, born in Sicily, raised in Sicily but I've been living far away in South East Asia for 15 years. So forgive my english if there could be some mistakes, I am a sicilian native speaker.
Btw, I have tested my DNA with living DNA company and waiting yet for the results. My parents are both sicilians, I have traced my paternal family tree which goes back to the 1600, I know all of my ancestors in detail since that time and they were all sicilians. They were from the small town of Pietraperzia, today under Enna but before under Caltanissetta. However it seems one ancestor of this family came from the town of Modica (Ragusa) and he moved to Pietraperzia in 1657. From my mother side little is known, I only know her dad was from Agrigento but I can't be really sure about that side of the family because there is a rumour (which I believe it's true) my mom's grandfather was the illegitimate child of a famous politician from Agrigento. So I never tried to investigate about my mom's family tree. I hope I can get soon my DNA results so I can share them with all of you and maybe you could help me to read them.

Thank you

Are you from a nightclub?

[Sikeliot]

Are you from a nightclub?

He won't get it so let me clarify: I have gone through Facebook to every disco club in Sicily and posted probably by now, thousands of photos from them:

https://www.facebook.com/PINKCODEPALERMO/photos/?ref=page_internal
https://www.facebook.com/coconutdiscoteca/photos/
https://www.facebook.com/ristobarprincipegranatelli/photos/a.578173199186699.1073741897.177977312539625/578178585852827/?type=3&theater

etc. These photos have all been posted on this forum by me.

It is a good source of photos and much easier than finding individuals to post.

[Sikeliot]

Here is one. My paternal grandmother's parents. The man belonged to a very noble and ancient family in Pietraperzia, the woman's family came from Santa Caterina (Caltanissetta).

77904

It is difficult to classify old photos but the man looks much more "European" than the woman (not Nordic so much but a general Central/Western European look), and the child on the far right looks Arabian.

[donriccardo]

It is difficult to classify old photos but the man looks much more "European" than the woman (not Nordic so much but a general Central/Western European look), and the child on the far right looks Arabian.

I will post more photos later...

[donriccardo]

Are you from a nightclub?

lol

[donriccardo]

It is difficult to classify old photos but the man looks much more "European" than the woman (not Nordic so much but a general Central/Western European look), and the child on the far right looks Arabian.

77947 3/4 sicilian, 1/4 sardinian

[Tauromachos]

3/4 sicilian, 1/4 sardinian

Not very Arabic looking lol

[Cuoppo]

Thank you! Very interesting to know. I have noticed two of my mother's cousins from Agrigento have an amazing resemblance with Turkish people. Everyone in the family say that. However, my grandfather was blonde with blue eyes and so are my brother and my sister. We have a lot of mixed traits in my mom's family but again we are 100% sicilian.

Hi! do you live in Sicily?

[Cristiano viejo]

do you feel italian or just sicilian?

[donriccardo]

I live in Asia. Moved there 10 years ago. Before I lived in Sicily.

[donriccardo]

Hi! do you live in Sicily?

I live in Asia, moved here 10 years ago. Before I lived in Sicily

[donriccardo]

do you feel italian or just sicilian?

I feel sicilian. Sicilians would always say "I am sicilian" rather than "I am italian".

[donriccardo]

Not very Arabic looking lol

No, it's totally wrong. Not many sicilians look arabic. Trust me.

[Tauromachos]

No, it's totally wrong. Not many sicilians look arabic. Trust me.

?

What do you mean?

You mean there are Arabic looking Sicilians but not many of them do?

Or something else..

[Bosniensis]

I feel sicilian. Sicilians would rather say "I am sicilian" than "I am italian".

Are you related to Michael Corleone?

[donriccardo]

?

What do you mean?

You mean there are Arabic looking Sicilians but not many of them do?

Or something else..

Maybe some people have some arabian looking phenotype (not that many though) in Sicily, but you can still see they are italian. It's hard to explain.

[donriccardo]

Are you related to Michael Corleone?

To be honest, I've never watched that movie. In Italy they make better mafia movies. ;)

[Cuoppo]

I live in Asia, moved here 10 years ago. Before I lived in Sicily

Asia??? where in Asia?

[donriccardo]

Asia??? where in Asia?

South East

[Tauromachos]

Maybe some people have some arabian looking phenotype (not that many though) in Sicily, but you can still see they are italian. It's hard to explain.

No i fully agree with what you say

I myself"though not being Sicilian" tried to discuss this often against people who claimed something else

And since you are Sicilian native you have to know your own people best

[Cuoppo]

South East

Vietnam? Cambodia? Thailand? sounds great

[Sikeliot]

No i fully agree with what you say

I myself"though not being Sicilian" tried to discuss this often against people who claimed something else

And since you are Sicilian native you have to know your own people best


He would know his own people best but what I find is that the phenotypes that you or I might perceive as Levantine, someone who is native to either place would be able to see a difference.

Most likely some of the very same phenotypes that we would see as West Asian, he would not because he is accustomed to seeing them as Sicilian. Does this make sense?

[GiCa]

You look south italian indeed

I think I m more expert than Sikeliot on Sicily btw

I understand the language while he doesn t.

Not a single word of Sicilian or Italian for that matter

[Sikeliot]

You look south italian indeed

I think I m more expert than Sikeliot on Sicily btw

I understand the language while he doesn t.

Not a single word of Sicilian or Italian for that matter

I understand the genetics better than you do and that is all I go by.

I don't frankly care what people think they LOOK like. Not everyone is obligated to share my opinion. All I care is that the genetic/scientific reality is acknowledged.

[donriccardo]

He would know his own people best but what I find is that the phenotypes that you or I might perceive as Levantine, someone who is native to either place would be able to see a difference.

Most likely some of the very same phenotypes that we would see as West Asian, he would not because he is accustomed to seeing them as Sicilian. Does this make sense?

Yes, I agree with you. However I can differentiate yet sicilians from middle eastern people...
I also like to make a note about a friend of mine from Caltanissetta, he is 100% sicilian but he looks very north african (Morocco). I think he is the most similar to north african than any other sicilian I have ever seen. Everyone who knows him will call him "marocchino" as a joke. Dark skin, black and curly hair, tall. He is the only one in his family that look like that but I can assure he is 100% sicilian. I will post a photo of him next time.

[Mortimer]

Welcome.

[Mortimer]

Btw I like your username. Don Ricardo. Do you know the opera Don Giovanni from Mozart? Do you like it?

[donriccardo]

My teacher in high school. She is 100% sicilian from Caltanissetta and she belongs to a well known family in Caltanissetta. She admitted many people in Sicily often asked if she was russian or british. She assured to be 100% sicilian.


77978

[donriccardo]

Btw I like your username. Don Ricardo. Do you know the opera Don Giovanni from Mozart? Do you like it?

The title "Don" in my username was used for centuries (since 1650 at least) beside my ancestors' names. Don Michele, Don Rosario, etc. etc. It was very common in Sicily (and Spain) with people of a certain aristocracy. Last man using it in my paternal line was my great grandfather. That's the reason why I have this username. :)

[donriccardo]

I have a question. From my paternal line, there was one spouse (female) with a sicilian family name (Emma) present in Sicily for many centuries but recorded in history books as of germanic roots. Another sicilian spouse (Bartoli) had a family name typical from Tuscany and Rome. There were also spouses with family names recorded in history from Venezia and Lombardy. I guess they had been in Sicily for many hundreds of years. My question is...if their family was really of Germanic, Lombard, Tuscan origins (perhaps 1000 years ago), will they appear in my DNA results or they will not, because the test only checks for males through Y-DNA? Or again Living DNA only make an "estimation" about the origin of the haplogroup? :confused:
I need some clarification about this. Thank you.

[Mortimer]

The title "Don" in my username was used for centuries (since 1650 at least) beside my ancestors' names. Don Michele, Don Rosario, etc. etc. It was very common in Sicily (and Spain) with people of a certain aristocracy. Last man using it in my paternal line was my great grandfather. That's the reason why I have this username. :)

I knew that Don is a aristocratic title. I think also in spain, like Don Quihote? But it sounds so bad ass.

[donriccardo]

I knew that Don is a aristocratic title. I think also in spain, like Don Quihote? But it sounds so bad ass.

Most people relate the use of "Don" to Mafia, which is wrong.

[Sikeliot]

I have a question. From my paternal line, there was one spouse (female) with a sicilian family name (Emma) present in Sicily for many centuries but recorded in history books as of germanic roots. Another sicilian spouse (Bartoli) had a family name typical from Tuscany and Rome. There were also spouses with family names recorded in history from Venezia and Lombardy. I guess they had been in Sicily for many hundreds of years. My question is...if their family was really of Germanic, Lombard, Tuscan origins (perhaps 1000 years ago), will they appear in my DNA results or they will not, because the test only checks for males through Y-DNA? Or again Living DNA only make an "estimation" about the origin of the haplogroup? :confused:
I need some clarification about this. Thank you.

If just y-dna is tested, no. That only tells you about one ancestor out of millions.

If you do autosomal testing then yes, they will appear, yes, if they make up a significant enough portion of your DNA. Most likely it would lead to you plotting north of the Sicilian average (or rather, north of people who do not have recent mainland Italian input).


Yes, I agree with you. However I can differentiate yet sicilians from middle eastern people...
I also like to make a note about a friend of mine from Caltanissetta, he is 100% sicilian but he looks very north african (Morocco). I think he is the most similar to north african than any other sicilian I have ever seen. Everyone who knows him will call him "marocchino" as a joke. Dark skin, black and curly hair, tall. He is the only one in his family that look like that but I can assure he is 100% sicilian. I will post a photo of him next time.

As I said before in another thread, I do see MENA input in Sicilian phenotypes but if others don't, that is a personal, subjective opinion. What I do insist though is that even if people believe there is NO non-European input in the appearances, they do acknowledge that it is there genetically, and that on average, Sicilian natives are intermediate between other Southern Europeans and West Asians (the same is true for mainland south Italy, the Aegean islands like Crete, etc).

I don't have the ability of differentiating certain looks. For instance, this sort of look, I personally do perceive it as West Asian/Middle Eastern but you might not (I think because you grow up around Sicilians more than I do, you might only see the really extreme ones as looking Middle Eastern):

https://scontent.fphl1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/26240726_1859887560710532_545181391679738349_o.jpg ?_nc_cat=0&oh=8b36b944d8f82b7d5c4009d2fef29c8a&oe=5BD2A1A7

[donriccardo]

[QUOTE=Sikeliot;5277426]If just y-dna is tested, no. That only tells you about one ancestor out of millions.

If you do autosomal testing then yes, they will appear, yes, if they make up a significant enough portion of your DNA. Most likely it would lead to you plotting north of the Sicilian average (or rather, north of people who do not have recent mainland Italian input).



So the 3 in 1 living DNA doesn't include autosomal test, doesn't it ?

[donriccardo]

If just y-dna is tested, no. That only tells you about one ancestor out of millions.

If you do autosomal testing then yes, they will appear, yes, if they make up a significant enough portion of your DNA. Most likely it would lead to you plotting north of the Sicilian average (or rather, north of people who do not have recent mainland Italian input).



As I said before in another thread, I do see MENA input in Sicilian phenotypes but if others don't, that is a personal, subjective opinion. What I do insist though is that even if people believe there is NO non-European input in the appearances, they do acknowledge that it is there genetically, and that on average, Sicilian natives are intermediate between other Southern Europeans and West Asians (the same is true for mainland south Italy, the Aegean islands like Crete, etc).

I don't have the ability of differentiating certain looks. For instance, this sort of look, I personally do perceive it as West Asian/Middle Eastern but you might not (I think because you grow up around Sicilians more than I do, you might only see the really extreme ones as looking Middle Eastern):



So the 3 in 1 living DNA test doesn't include autosomal test, does it?

[donriccardo]

As I said before in another thread, I do see MENA input in Sicilian phenotypes but if others don't, that is a personal, subjective opinion. What I do insist though is that even if people believe there is NO non-European input in the appearances, they do acknowledge that it is there genetically, and that on average, Sicilian natives are intermediate between other Southern Europeans and West Asians (the same is true for mainland south Italy, the Aegean islands like Crete, etc).

I don't have the ability of differentiating certain looks. For instance, this sort of look, I personally do perceive it as West Asian/Middle Eastern but you might not (I think because you grow up around Sicilians more than I do, you might only see the really extreme ones as looking Middle Eastern):

https://scontent.fphl1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/26240726_1859887560710532_545181391679738349_o.jpg ?_nc_cat=0&oh=8b36b944d8f82b7d5c4009d2fef29c8a&oe=5BD2A1A7


Yes I perfectly understand what you mean.

[GiCa]

I knew that Don is a aristocratic title. I think also in spain, like Don Quihote? But it sounds so bad ass.

well in my part of italy it s used for priests

Don + (the name of the priest)

and for that matter in all italy too

[Cristiano viejo]

I knew that Don is a aristocratic title. I think also in spain, like Don Quihote? But it sounds so bad ass.

In Spain Don means (more or less) the same than Sir.
It is just a form to call or refer someone with education.

[donriccardo]

Also in Sicily DON is used for priests. It was used as a noble title until 1800.

[donriccardo]

This is the music video of my friend from Caltanissetta. 100% sicilian.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlHITD3EI9w

[Mens-Sarda]

I knew that Don is a aristocratic title. I think also in spain, like Don Quihote? But it sounds so bad ass.

Now (in Sardinia) it's used mostly for Priests, in the past it was used also for nobles as Don (in modern era) or Donnu (in the middle ages), from vulgar Latin "Domnus", shortened version of "Dominus" (master, lord, owner). In Spain can be found as Don or Dueño (master, owner).<abbr title="masculine gender"></abbr>

[Tauromachos]

Maybe it's true genetically. However across Sicily the physical traits are all varied and mixed. In each family you might find people that look nordic and others look more let's say like middle eastern. Just to give you an example...my dad and his younger brother are blonde type with fair skin while their oldest brother's skin and hair were dark. My nephews from the same parents, one is blonde with very light eyes, his brother has dark skin and black hair. It's almost impossible to distinguish sicilians from different cities. We can only do this with the DNA. I love this forum, let's collect data and study our DNA.

Yeah but this or very similar at least to what you explained here for Sicilians is also true for Greeks both Greeks in the Mainland and in the Aegean

He simply doesn't understand it

[Mortimer]

well in my part of italy it s used for priests

Don + (the name of the priest)

and for that matter in all italy too

there is also donna. donna gica the bella of italia.

[donriccardo]

there is also donna. donna gica the bella of italia.

Yes, Donna is the wife of a Don

[catgeorge]

He doesnt know much about Sicilians do not worry about it too much. He has never stepped foot in Sicily - I have been there five times and its almost pole opposites to Sikeliots cherry picking arguementatures.