My parents' DNA Tribes results

[Peterski]

This confirms what I concluded before based on other results, namely that my mom has some Baltic and Germanic admixtures while dad has Celtic admixture (in addition to Slavic ancestry):

https://i.imgur.com/1wukFUy.png

[Peterski]

My (and so my dad's too) closest Y-DNA matches are also Scottish... :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clan_Chisholm

https://i.imgur.com/oFZoEVX.png

How is it even possible? Maybe Celts migrated to Scotland from Poland?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kG9j5Io6yw

[Dick]

is Denmark supposed to be Germanic then? Reason why I ask is because I get Slovakia+Montenegro+Denmark in that order. The other pops are self explanatory.

[Peterski]

is Denmark supposed to be Germanic then?

Mostly Germanic + minor Celtic (Cimbri) and Danish islands have minor Slavic too.

[Dick]

Mostly Germanic + minor Celtic (Cimbri) and Danish islands have minor Slavic too.

I meant with this specific test.

[Peterski]

I meant with this specific test.

Well Denmark is Denmark in every test.

[Dick]

Well Denmark is Denmark in every test.

Well you said your mom has Germanic admixture. I assume it's from the Hindi speakers then.

[Grace O'Malley]

This confirms what I concluded before based on other results, namely that my mom has some Baltic and Germanic admixtures while dad has Celtic admixture (in addition to Slavic ancestry):

https://i.imgur.com/1wukFUy.png

Interesting results. This was my breakdown on DNA Tribes. In the admixture I get some East and West but on Table 5 all my top 10 are western and northern Europe. Your father does seem to have a Western pull compared to your mother. It's really fascinating to wonder why?

http://i64.tinypic.com/iqwy37.jpg
http://i68.tinypic.com/2zi8m5g.jpg

Just as an interest I know some rebellious Irish were sent to Sweden to fight in the Swedish army but most ended up deserting to the Catholic Polish army.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/43857871?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents


Irish military involvement in the Swedish army was neither happy nor successful. At the beginning of the Seventeenth Century about 6,000 men were shipped out of Ulster for the security of the plantation and sent to Sweden. They were especially unhappy fighting for a Lutheran power. Some Irish friars disguised themselves as soldiers and moved among the men encouraging them to desert to Catholic powers. The men then left Swedish service and most joined the army of Poland.[22] After this incident Gustavus Adolphus refused to accept any large scale recruitment of Irishmen considering them untrustworthy. However a small number went to serve in the officer corps. The most prominent of these was Hugh Hamilton, 1st Viscount of Glenawly. Two of his nephews also entered Swedish service.

More details are in a book called Wild Geese in the North by John Jordan.

[Peterski]

Just as an interest I know some rebellious Irish were sent to Sweden to fight in the Swedish army but most ended up deserting to the Catholic Polish army.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/43857871?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

Very interesting, thanks! Never heard about it but it makes sense that they would desert and join fellow Catholic Polish forces. I also know that Swedish prisoners of war captured during Polish-Swedish wars were settled as peasants in various parts of Poland to farm the land. There are many villages called Szwedy (Swedes), Szwecja (Sweden), etc. established at that time. Swedish prisoners of war does not imply ethnic Swedes because Swedish armies were very ethnically diverse. They recruited soldiers also in Estonia and Latvia as well as in Pomerania - and that included ethnic groups who lived there. Some of my mom's ancestors are from a village called Pomorzany (Pomeranians). But I'm not sure about the history of this village. If it was established in the 1600s then probably it was populated by Swedish prisoners of war originating from the southern Baltic coast. But if it is older then it could be established for example in the 1100s for Slavic Pomeranian captives.

There were also Scots in Poland. Here is an article about them but in Polish:

https://ngoteka.pl/bitstream/handle/item/280/Szkoci-JW.pdf?sequence=9

In 1616 Englishman William Lithgow claimed that there were 30,000 Scottish families in Poland. That was most likely an exaggeration. Historian Anna Biegańska estimated that there were 7,400 Scottish families. There were both Catholic Scots and Protestant Scots in Poland, it is impossible to tell exactly which group was more numerous. But in the 2nd half of the 17th century many Protestant Scots in Poland converted to Catholicism. Around year 1650 there were 119 Scottish settlements in Poland. Mostly in Northern (53) and Western (31) Poland, less numerous in Southern (18) and North-Eastern (17 settlements) Poland.

But my dad's surname is of Slavic origin, not Scottish, so I don't think we are descended from these guys.

Scottish Y-DNA matches are probably due to ancient Celtic presence in Poland.

[Peterski]

As for those Irish deserters:

After the end of the war, they were probably given some land by Polish king and settled in Poland.

Just like Swedish captives.


Your father does seem to have a Western pull compared to your mother.

Yes a western pull but especially south-western or Celtic, not Germanic.

In Eurogenes K15 my mom has more North Sea but much less Atlantic:

1. Father:

Population
North_Sea 24.18
Atlantic 19.34
Baltic 24.98
Eastern_Euro 15.86
West_Med 5.16
West_Asian 4.74
East_Med 4.53
Red_Sea -
South_Asian -
Southeast_Asian -
Siberian -
Amerindian -
Oceanian 0.23
Northeast_African 0.96
Sub-Saharan -

2. Mother:

Population
North_Sea 26.77
Atlantic 14.93
Baltic 23.96
Eastern_Euro 19.95
West_Med 5.53
West_Asian 4.42
East_Med 3.32
Red_Sea 0.24
South_Asian 0.17
Southeast_Asian -
Siberian -
Amerindian 0.54
Oceanian -
Northeast_African 0.17
Sub-Saharan -

Mixed Mode Population Sharing - in one of iterations, it gives my mom:

16 75.1% South_Polish + 24.9% North_Swedish @ 3.94

Northern Swedes are a mix of Germanic with Ugro-Finnic ancestries.

"Eastern_Euro" in K15 is more Estonian, Finnish etc. than Balto-Slavic.

[Gorilla]

Nice results.

[Grace O'Malley]

As for those Irish deserters:

After the end of the war, they were probably given some land by Polish king and settled in Poland.

Just like Swedish captives.



Yes a western pull but especially south-western or Celtic, not Germanic.

In Eurogenes K15 my mom has more North Sea but much less Atlantic:

1. Father:

Population
North_Sea 24.18
Atlantic 19.34
Baltic 24.98
Eastern_Euro 15.86
West_Med 5.16
West_Asian 4.74
East_Med 4.53
Red_Sea -
South_Asian -
Southeast_Asian -
Siberian -
Amerindian -
Oceanian 0.23
Northeast_African 0.96
Sub-Saharan -

2. Mother:

Population
North_Sea 26.77
Atlantic 14.93
Baltic 23.96
Eastern_Euro 19.95
West_Med 5.53
West_Asian 4.42
East_Med 3.32
Red_Sea 0.24
South_Asian 0.17
Southeast_Asian -
Siberian -
Amerindian 0.54
Oceanian -
Northeast_African 0.17
Sub-Saharan -

History is wonderful and so much of it is unknown. Irish soldiers were even in Russia so people got about. I think Irish and Scots went everywhere either willingly or not so willingly. :)


The most recognised and outstanding Irishman to serve in the Russian Army was Peter Lacy from Bruff, County Limerick, who died in 1751 while governor of Livonia. Lacy's daughter married another Irish man from Limerick, General George Browne who became a Russian general and their son Johann Georg von Browne also rose to the rank of general in Russia. Count John O'Rourke was a prominent military theorist during the time of Catherine the Great. O'Rourke and his brother Cornelius joined the Russian Army. Cornelius married a niece of Lacy.[21] John O'Rourke's son Joseph Cornelius O'Rourke rose to the rank of lieutenant general during the Napoleonic period. Another prominent descendant Eduard Alexander Ladislaus Graf (Count) O'Rourke became the bishop of Gdańsk in the inter war years and died an exile in Rome in 1943.


What makes you say your father's pull is south-western when he gets some Irish and Scottish Argyll Bute in that DNA Tribes result?

[Peterski]

Here is my dad's Mixed Mode in Eurogenes K15, Irish and Scottish also show up:

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Polish 4.58
2 Polish 5.85
(...)

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 65.5% Belorussian + 34.5% West_German @ 2.37
2 80% South_Polish + 20% North_German @ 2.55
3 68.9% Russian_Smolensk + 31.1% West_German @ 2.62
4 82.8% South_Polish + 17.2% Danish @ 2.65
5 84.3% South_Polish + 15.7% Irish @ 2.69
6 51.8% Austrian + 48.2% Estonian @ 2.71
7 84.8% South_Polish + 15.2% West_Scottish @ 2.71
8 83.2% South_Polish + 16.8% North_Dutch @ 2.71
9 84.6% South_Polish + 15.4% Southeast_English @ 2.78
10 86.2% South_Polish + 13.8% Orcadian @ 2.84
11 82.1% South_Polish + 17.9% Swedish @ 2.89
12 85.3% South_Polish + 14.7% West_Norwegian @ 2.98
13 83.7% South_Polish + 16.3% Norwegian @ 3.01
14 85.5% South_Polish + 14.5% Southwest_English @ 3.05
15 58.2% Lithuanian + 41.8% West_German @ 3.07
16 83.8% South_Polish + 16.2% West_German @ 3.09
17 57% Polish + 43% Hungarian @ 3.11
18 62.6% Southwest_Russian + 37.4% North_German @ 3.12
19 66.3% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 33.7% North_Dutch @ 3.14
20 62.1% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 37.9% North_German @ 3.14

And his 4-Ancestors Oracle, here Scottish shows up already in 3 populations mode:

Using 1 population approximation:
1 South_Polish @ 5.266597
2 Polish @ 6.805603
(...)

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Austrian +50% Estonian @ 2.915383

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Lithuanian +25% Romanian +25% West_Scottish @ 2.014763

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Danish + Lithuanian + Lithuanian + Romanian @ 1.940551
2 Danish + Lithuanian + Lithuanian + Serbian @ 1.993862
3 Lithuanian + Lithuanian + Romanian + West_Scottish @ 2.014763
(...)


What makes you say your father's pull is south-western when he gets some Irish and Scottish Argyll Bute in that DNA Tribes result?

Maybe not south-western but not Nordic either. Rather Celtic. In various GEDmatch Oracles he gets western & southern pull (Austria, Hungary, Romania, the Balkans, etc.), while my mom gets northern & eastern (Scandinavia, SW Finland, Estonia, Latvia, etc.).

[Grace O'Malley]

Here is my dad's Mixed Mode in Eurogenes K15, Irish and Scottish also show up:

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Polish 4.58
2 Polish 5.85
(...)

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 65.5% Belorussian + 34.5% West_German @ 2.37
2 80% South_Polish + 20% North_German @ 2.55
3 68.9% Russian_Smolensk + 31.1% West_German @ 2.62
4 82.8% South_Polish + 17.2% Danish @ 2.65
5 84.3% South_Polish + 15.7% Irish @ 2.69
6 51.8% Austrian + 48.2% Estonian @ 2.71
7 84.8% South_Polish + 15.2% West_Scottish @ 2.71
8 83.2% South_Polish + 16.8% North_Dutch @ 2.71
9 84.6% South_Polish + 15.4% Southeast_English @ 2.78
10 86.2% South_Polish + 13.8% Orcadian @ 2.84
11 82.1% South_Polish + 17.9% Swedish @ 2.89
12 85.3% South_Polish + 14.7% West_Norwegian @ 2.98
13 83.7% South_Polish + 16.3% Norwegian @ 3.01
14 85.5% South_Polish + 14.5% Southwest_English @ 3.05
15 58.2% Lithuanian + 41.8% West_German @ 3.07
16 83.8% South_Polish + 16.2% West_German @ 3.09
17 57% Polish + 43% Hungarian @ 3.11
18 62.6% Southwest_Russian + 37.4% North_German @ 3.12
19 66.3% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 33.7% North_Dutch @ 3.14
20 62.1% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 37.9% North_German @ 3.14

And his 4-Ancestors Oracle, here Scottish shows up already in 3 populations mode:

Using 1 population approximation:
1 South_Polish @ 5.266597
2 Polish @ 6.805603
(...)

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Austrian +50% Estonian @ 2.915383

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Lithuanian +25% Romanian +25% West_Scottish @ 2.014763

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Danish + Lithuanian + Lithuanian + Romanian @ 1.940551
2 Danish + Lithuanian + Lithuanian + Serbian @ 1.993862
3 Lithuanian + Lithuanian + Romanian + West_Scottish @ 2.014763
(...)



Maybe not south-western but not Nordic either. Rather Celtic. In various GEDmatch Oracles he gets western & southern pull (Austria, Hungary, Romania, the Balkans, etc.), while my mom gets northern & eastern (Scandinavia, SW Finland, Estonia, Latvia, etc.).

Yes it appears more Northwestern than Southwestern. Although I don't think you can separate the Insular Celts from Germanics so I don't really use that terminology for genetics anymore. There is too much overlap. You can even see this in your father's results as the Irish and Scots are always in the Northwest European mix with the North Dutch, Norwegians, Danes, English and Germans etc. The Bretons and Normans would also be in there if they were included in more of these calculators.

[Dibran]

Mine. Shabad Shalom lol


https://s8.postimg.cc/plhryngc5/8_FAFF603-5_CBA-4239-_B5_B9-27_CCEB2_D941_F.png

https://s8.postimg.cc/yta0fmamd/54_A99570-_D941-4_A75-_BB6_B-_B7_E5615_F02_E4.png

https://s8.postimg.cc/z7bcetx6d/CDBBCF59-_BC1_F-4692-94_FB-_D1_C47_E9_C1_AC3.png

[TeutonicBoyars]

The Celtic pull can be recent. Scottish merchants and mercenaries had a pretty well documented presence in Poland-Lithuania. I know of another Pole who's Y-DNA is of Scottish origin, apparently with genealogy trails to back it up, from a merchant family apparently. I don't know how Y-DNA works exactly, but considering your father matches most closely to other Scots maybe it can be from that?

[Gründig]

Was thinking of uploading my raw data and doing the DNAtribe snp test. Do you think it's worth it?

[Peterski]

The Celtic pull can be recent.

I don't think I have any surnames of obvious Scottish origin in the family. Maybe it is ancient:

https://i.imgur.com/86sT5R1.png