Iraqi Arab from Baghdad Gedmatch result.

[Haider]

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 37.13
2 Near_East 17.76
3 South_Central_Asian 15.53
4 European_Early_Farmers 8.11
5 North_African 5.50
6 South_Indian 4.78
7 European_Hunters_Gatherers 3.20
8 East_African 2.62
9 Ancestral_Altaic 2.03


Finished reading population data. 620 populations found.
23 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Iraqi_Chaldean_ @ 7.935792
2 Turk_Adana_ @ 8.286115
3 Iraki_ @ 8.338639
4 Iraqi_Mandean_ @ 8.521123
5 Lebanese_ @ 8.715096
6 Lebanese_Muslim_ @ 8.816775
7 Syrian_ @ 8.838888
8 Kurd_Jew_ @ 9.562696
9 Georgian_Jew_ @ 9.601428
10 Assyrian_Iraqi_ @ 9.724998
11 Iranian_Jew_ @ 9.891257
12 Uzbekistani_Jew_ @ 10.129145
13 Muslim_Arabs_Israel_ @ 10.133577
14 Iraqi_Jew_ @ 10.892357
15 Syrian_Jew_ @ 11.641242
16 Jew_Tat_ @ 11.825155
17 Kurd_North_ @ 11.891711
18 Turk_Kayseri_ @ 11.898680
19 Samaritian_ @ 12.224368
20 Kurd_South_ @ 12.471793

[Gangrel]

Use other calcs pls

[Haider]

Use other calcs pls

I don't have their ID. But what is clear is that the myth that only Northern Iraqi Arabs are genetically Assyrian is false. It's clear that Iraqi Arabs from Baghdad/Central Iraq are predominantly Assyrian as well.

[StonyArabia]

Seems like an Arabized Assyrian. However Iraq is a very diverse nation. Most "Arabized" Assyrians are in Mosul especially the settled town folk, they look also different from us Iraqi Bedouins, as we are usually darker skinned, and speak in a different dialect than they do. Our dialect is mutual with other groups and is close to Jordanian and Gulf Arabic. Well Mosuli dialect is difficult to understand and it has strong Aramaic lexicon. However what complicate things is that many of them mixed with "Turkoman" and Kurds, which would account for Iranic elements in them, which for the most part is lacking in the Iraqi Bedouins of the same area.
'

[Aren]

This is an Iranian - Bedouin mix, like nearly all Iraqi Arabs. No Assyrian scores 4%+ South Indian or non-noise level East African.
This is what his mixed mode will show.

[Nazarene]

Seems like an Arabized Assyrian. However Iraq is a very diverse nation. Most "Arabized" Assyrians are in Mosul especially the settled town folk, they look also different from us Iraqi Bedouins, as we are usually darker skinned, and speak in a different dialect than they do. Our dialect is mutual with other groups and is close to Jordanian and Gulf Arabic. Well Mosuli dialect is difficult to understand and it has strong Aramaic lexicon. However what complicate things is that many of them mixed with "Turkoman" and Kurds, which would account for Iranic elements in them, which for the most part is lacking in the Iraqi Bedouins of the same area.
'

This is right, but just wanted to note that only the Muslim Maslawis have that Turkoman/Kurdish mix. The Christian Maslawis are either of Assyrian or Armenian descent.

[Kukushka]

This is an Iranian - Bedouin mix, like nearly all Iraqi Arabs. No Assyrian scores 4%+ South Indian or non-noise level East African.
This is what his mixed mode will show.

Why iraqi arabs have some indian? Is it due to iranian admix?

[Sikeliot]

Northern and central Iraq are predominantly Mesopotamian (though there does seem to be some Iranic ancestry also). Southern Iraq is mostly descended from the Arabian Peninsula, or at least has such ancestry in a larger amount.

[Anglojew]

"Arab"

[Bornoz]

I wonder this guy's results in Dodecad K12b

[StonyArabia]

This is right, but just wanted to note that only the Muslim Maslawis have that Turkoman/Kurdish mix. The Christian Maslawis are either of Assyrian or Armenian descent.

This what makes it complicated. They might have some Arabian ancestor here and there, but for the most part the Muslim Maslawis base is in fact Arabized Assyrians. Yes they are heavily mixed with Turkoman/Kurds which makes complicate things. This because both Turkoman and Kurds have significant Iranian like genetics. However what really give us a clue about Muslim Maslawis origins is the dialect they speak which is very different from other Iraqi dialects, and clearly has an Aramaic lexicon. Their dialect has no similarity to the Bedouin dialect of the same area, which has no Aramaic lexicon, and not mention they look different.


Why iraqi arabs have some indian? Is it due to iranian admix?

Yes from Iranians and "Turkomans" most likely

[Aren]

Why iraqi arabs have some indian? Is it due to iranian admix?

Iranian, Kurdish and Turkmen. Iraqi Turks are close to Azeris who themself are mainly Iranian.

Modern day Iraqi Arabs(both south and north) have very little to do with the indigenous ethnic minorities of Iraq, who are all close to one and other(Assyrians, Iraqi Jews, Mandeans).
This is what Northern Iraqi Arabs score like in the mixed mode.

Tikrit
58% Kurdish + 42% Bedouin @ 1.9

Mosul
73.6% Azeri + 26.4% Jordanian @ 2.69

Tikrit
56.7% Kurdish + 43.3% Bedouin @ 2.61

Mosul
53.4% Azeri + 46.6% Palestinian @ 3.48

Samarra
50.8% Palestinian + 49.2% Iranian @ 3.87

Every single one scores African, and most also score Siberian. This reflects the history of late medieval Iraq with the Mongolian and Turkic invasions as they butchered nearly all of the old Arab population and Iraq was re-populated by various other muslims mainly Bedouins(Levantine shifted Bedouins mainly) and Iranians.
I have yet to see a non-Bedouin Iraqi Arab not being Iranic shifted in comparison to Syrians.

[Kukushka]

So that means northern iraqi arabs are more than half iraqi turkmen?
So its not really persian in that case..

[Aren]

So that means northern iraqi arabs are more than half iraqi turkmen?
So its not really persian in that case..
Most in South Iraq get Iranian + Bedouin, in Northern Iraq a lot also get Azeri + Bedouin/Palestinian/Syrian.
So yeah there’s def som Turkish input there, but on the other hand Kurds and Iranians themself score some Siberian.
Another thing I didn’t mention was that Iraqi Arabs score genuine Northern Euro admix which is absent in Assyrians, Mandeans and Iraqi Jews. Probably from Iranians and Turks.

[Seya]

so much south asian. is that normal?

[Nazarene]

This what makes it complicated. They might have some Arabian ancestor here and there, but for the most part the Muslim Maslawis base is in fact Arabized Assyrians. Yes they are heavily mixed with Turkoman/Kurds which makes complicate things. This because both Turkoman and Kurds have significant Iranian like genetics. However what really give us a clue about Muslim Maslawis origins is the dialect they speak which is very different from other Iraqi dialects, and clearly has an Aramaic lexicon. Their dialect has no similarity to the Bedouin dialect of the same area, which has no Aramaic lexicon, and not mention they look different.



Yes from Iranians and "Turkomans" most likely

Yes they are some kind of mixture of Arabian/Assyrian/Turkoman/Kurdish, which makes them look quite different and this accumulated into the diversity in their dialect of Arabic.

[StonyArabia]

Yes they are some kind of mixture of Arabian/Assyrian/Turkoman/Kurdish, which makes them look quite different and this accumulated into the diversity in their dialect of Arabic.

Yes their base seems native but mixed with Arabian/Assyrian/Turkoman/Kurdish. Although Turkoman and Kurdish are not that different from each other. The Turkomans are mostly just Turkized Iranian tribes, and not mention Kurds are an Iranian people. Their dialect is very hard to understand from other parts of Iraq, and not to mention is very stark to the Bedouin dialect of the same area. They also look more like Kurds and Assyrians, then Bedouins. Also the Bedouins in this area tend to still live in their own areas and often maintain their distance, because they usually are reserved about outsiders, due to mistreatment in the past. You can easily tell them apart from Bedouins. Bedouins usually live in the Desert areas of the Mosul region, and nearby Anbar, where many of the Bedouin tribes are located there. The Bedouins in Mosul/Anbar have very little to do with the Muslims in Mosul who have different origins and mixtures. One thing most Bedouin tribes in Iraq lack Iranian admix, especially those that still live in their own ways like my mother's clan, and they often have unique look to them. For example Bedouin traditional dress especially female ones is very much closer to Jordanians this not true of the non-Bedouin Mosuli Muslims, who clearly are influenced by Turkish/Kurdish and possibly even Assyrian clothing. They are very different from us even culturally, and trust me they would not happy if their son would have brought Bedouin bride for example, and this due to difference in culture.

[Nazarene]

Yes their base seems native but mixed with Arabian/Assyrian/Turkoman/Kurdish. Although Turkoman and Kurdish are not that different from each other. The Turkomans are mostly just Turkized Iranian tribes, and not mention Kurds are an Iranian people. Their dialect is very hard to understand from other parts of Iraq, and not to mention is very stark to the Bedouin dialect of the same area. They also look more like Kurds and Assyrians, then Bedouins. Also the Bedouins in this area tend to still live in their own areas and often maintain their distance, because they usually are reserved about outsiders, due to mistreatment in the past. You can easily tell them apart from Bedouins. Bedouins usually live in the Desert areas of the Mosul region, and nearby Anbar, where many of the Bedouin tribes are located there. The Bedouins in Mosul/Anbar have very little to do with the Muslims in Mosul who have different origins and mixtures. One thing most Bedouin tribes in Iraq lack Iranian admix, especially those that still live in their own ways like my mother's clan, and they often have unique look to them. For example Bedouin traditional dress especially female ones is very much closer to Jordanians this not true of the non-Bedouin Mosuli Muslims, who clearly are influenced by Turkish/Kurdish and possibly even Assyrian clothing. They are very different from us even culturally, and trust me they would not happy if their son would have brought Bedouin bride for example, and this due to difference in culture.

Yes I agree with you on the Turkized Iranian tribes. I'm sure quite a few Maslawi Muslims are descended of converts from Assyrian Christians, so yeah they surely have different origins to the more recent Bedouin. People of Mosul are notoriously to themselves, and as for the whole discrimination towards Bedouin I can believe it exists. Maslawis will often consider everyone else as outsiders because the town identity for us decides a lot of our culture. I'm sure a lot of other people in Iraq, including the Bedouin would be quite heavily ingroup aswell. What kind of mistreatment did they receive? And Mosul is unique as you said they differ linguistically as they speak qeltu instead of the gelit dialects in Tikrit and south of it. It's my mother-tongue so I can speak a fair amount, and the closest dialects would be Mardini and Mesopotamian Judeo-Arabic. Iraq really is full of diversity and it may make the country seem beautiful but I believe that this also is contributing to it's sectarian demise.

[Borealis]

Don't Assyrians/Mandaeans themselves have some kind of Iranic shift? Perhaps the Iraqi Arabs(at least in the north) are mostly of local origin but happen to have extra Arabian+Iranian input that is throwing their results off and making them get strange oracle results like "55% Iranian 45% Bedouin".

[Aren]

Don't Assyrians/Mandaeans themselves have some kind of Iranic shift? Perhaps the Iraqi Arabs(at least in the north) are mostly of local origin but happen to have extra Arabian+Iranian input that is throwing their results off and making them get strange oracle results like "55% Iranian 45% Bedouin".

No, since we don't score significant amount of Northern European/Steppe that Iranics have. Typically Iranic uniparental markers are also absent or barely occuring. Also your logic is flawed, if we already have an Iranic shift then why does barely any Northern Iraqi Arab get Assyrian in his mixed mode? And we are not the only Mesopotamian derived population in the spreadsheet, there are Georgian, Kurdish and Iranian Jews aswell who vary slightly from us. Yet they barely show up in the mixed mode either.

There's no need for this kind of advanced brain gymnastics. Iraqi Arabs are heavily Iranian shifted which shows in their auDNA. As an example their ratio of Caucasus to Baloch/Gedrosia on Harappa world or MDLP K23b is in line with Iranians not Eastern Aramaic speakers. Iraqi Arab Y-DNA is also heavily Arabian with significant amounts of R1a-Z93. So getting Iranian + Bedouin is not a strange oracle result. It's logical and expected.

[Borealis]

No, since we don't score significant amount of Northern European/Steppe that Iranics have. Typically Iranic uniparental markers are also absent or barely occuring. Also your logic is flawed, if we already have an Iranic shift then why does barely any Northern Iraqi Arab get Assyrian in his mixed mode? And we are not the only Mesopotamian derived population in the spreadsheet, there are Georgian, Kurdish and Iranian Jews aswell who vary slightly from us. Yet they barely show up in the mixed mode either.

There's no need for this kind of advanced brain gymnastics. Iraqi Arabs are heavily Iranian shifted which shows in their auDNA. As an example their ratio of Caucasus to Baloch/Gedrosia on Harappa world or MDLP K23b is in line with Iranians not Eastern Aramaic speakers. Iraqi Arab Y-DNA is also heavily Arabian with significant amounts of R1a-Z93. So getting Iranian + Bedouin is not a strange oracle result. It's logical and expected.

Actually you might be right. When I was checking out another thread on this topic I came to the same conclusion. The harappaworld spreadsheet shows Iraqi Arabs to be pretty much what you expect with some kind of Iranian+Saudi mix-their Caucasian levels are 10 points lower than other Iraqis+higher East African(both indicating Arabian pull) and S. Indian+NE Euro significantly higher(indicating Iranian pull). Their Baloch is similar to other Iraqis(roughly 19%) but this happened only by coincidence, as a roughly equal mix between Saudi(5% Baloch) and Iranians(27% Baloch) would produce a similar amount(~16%).

If this is an accurate analysis and applies to most Iraqi Arabs then that's really significant and means we might have to rewrite the history books. I guess my only question now is how did this happen exactly? I know the Mongols destroyed Baghdad but did they annihilate the rest of the Iraqi population as well?